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This Isn't Feminism. (Page 2)
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Actually, Feminism is at its core a hate group and it always has been.
The loudest and most famous voices of feminism have always been man-hating.
Dworkins, Solanas, Greer, Steinem, etc.
The biggest feminist organizations (NOW, WAR, Women's UN) have all shut down equal rights for men. They have all pushed the same feminist lies and false victim narrative.
Taking credit for successful females is something feminist love to do, but generally, those women had nothing to do with feminism. They were simply women who didn't play the victim and took initiative.
I suggest you learn some history.
Consider these Feminist voices:
Emiline Pankhurst: leader of the original Feminist movement, the Suffragettes. They didn't get naked. Most of them were married. They were civil. Most of them were well educated. They sought equality in Law not dominance.
Emily Davison: another Suffragette who only sought equality. She went on hunger-strikes, and eventually got the King's attention by walking onto the track during the Derby. The King's horse hit and killed her.
These feminists suspended their campaign for equality when the First World War broke out in 1914 so they could support the men.
They would not recognise modern "feminists" as such. True feminism has never been about tearing down men, but about building a society of equal but different citizens.
@DJB72 I suggest you stop reading feminist skewed literature.
Emiline founded the Women's Social and Political Union in 1903, which used militant tactics to agitate for women's suffrage. Militant actions by WSPU members included window-breaking, vandalizing public art and arson. Pankhurst was given a nine-month sentence in 1912 for throwing a rock at the prime minister’s residence.
Women had the right to vote in parts of the US and Britain LONG before the suffragettes. It wasn't a gender thing it was a class thing. Many men were not allowed to vote at that time as well. For Example in 1869 William Bright, a saloonkeeper and president of the upper house of the Wyoming Territory introduced a bill granting all female residents 21 years and older the right to vote, Utah quickly followed in 1870. Then Western territories of Washington and Montana. Colorado 1893. Idaho and Utah 1896. Then Washington, California, Arizona, Kansas, Oregon, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Alaska 1910
@DJB72 So as much as Emiline started her group in 1903... the vote for women had begun NATURALLY long before her or other suffragettes.
Emily Davison was also a militant. She was arrested for throwing stones to break windows at a political meeting. Interrupting political meetings. She threw stones at cars she thought had political people in them.
Then when they were held responsible for their actions, they went on childish hunger strikes and when forced to eat, played the victim card and said "will haunt me with its horror all my life, and is almost indescribable. ... The torture was barbaric"
So this sounds EXACTLY like feminist of today.
So once again. Feminism is toxic and useless (in the west), always has been.
I agree. Feminism has been hijacked into something that's all about man hating and blaming men.
I agree with what you said except for one thing: What you refuse to call feminism IS feminism.
"Real feminism" is what "feminists" do. And what they do is what you don't call feminism. But it is. It is because they took over the movement, they're the ones people hear, and the ones who makes things change, for better or worse, the ones medias and politicians listen to.
This is the feminism of today. Those hysterical, man hating, ridiculous and constantly offended bitches are the new feminists.
You don't like that? Take those you consider real feminists, and take back the movement. As long as those idiots will lead the movement, they're the feminists, not those you don't hear.
Feminism is always has been and always will be the advancement of feminine values and the betterment of females
That is just the nature of it
Any definition that days it is about equality is incorrect
Furthering equality is egalitarianism
Now because women have not and in some ways still do not have equality seeking equality is a place to start
If you are in a group who is at the lower end of an unequal system going for equal benefits your group and is there for in line with an -ism of your group such as females here
The closer to equal you get the less the goal becomes equality because that is not the ultimate goal
Thank goodness, just don't tell the crazy ones that, or they'll go more crazy on you.
Yes this makes sense.
Thank god there are some poeple that actually understand!
Thank God there are some people who aren't fake feminists! 😂
I'm glad we can get back to the root. I'm still not a feminist, but they did have a noble cause.
Yup. Feminism isn't hate... feminism isn't the female MGTOW... but the MGTOW seem to think it is - from their own personal experiences or the lack of.
P. S.
Mary Query - you mean Marie Curie?
Sorry russian translation
Thank you, thank you a thousand times! It's really heart-warming to see that not every girl is falling for this thing people call feminism nowadays. That's why I prefer the term "egalitarian", because the word feminism itself means "pro-women" and does not translate very well the goal of equality. In fact, I would rather have equity than equality, because equity would take into account our differences and take advantage of them to make a better world.
Also, looks at women like Emilie du Chatelet who were good scientists way before feminism existed. Feminism tends to pretend that, before its existence, women could not do anything because society often prevented them.
Nazism was originally made to help the people and not to kill millions.
So Nazis are good then.
That is the same logic here.
Sorry, but when a majority of people that identify with a term is one way, that is what that term now means/stands for.
In modern times (for decades now) in the USA at least feminism very much DOES mean they want preferential treatment, the same money for doing LESS work, more rights, and less responsibility than men.
That is what it stands for in the USA.
And they do NOTHING to help men or fight for men's rights here.
I know what you mean, their actions no longer fit the definition of feminism. It’s like someone going to war in the name of peace, you can’t be a pacifist if you incite violence
EXACTLY!
SOMEONE FINALLY UNDERSTOOD.
Makes total sense to me. They need a new word for it
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but what you said right here:
you can’t be a pacifist if you incite violence
is wrong.
Pacifism is to do with being called upon to defend your country, you absolutely can take a position against that and also be a dick who starts a fight in the local pub.
@Guffrus pacifist is someone who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable. So someone who incites violence will be going against the definition
I replied already but lost my post.
Thats a bit no true scotsman for my liking but its only semantics.
I am happy to accept that it is born out of beliefs which deal with the individual but I would only use the term to deal with larger issues, when talking about the individual I would talk about the non aggression priniciple.
@Guffrus I see what you are saying but I meant by applying the strict definition only like the OP
I agree, there's a major difference between not letting your strengths be stifled by society because you're a woman and not taking responsibility for your weaknesses as a person by blaming men. One seeks the equal treatment of the genders (feminism), where the other seems to be used as an outlet of rage for the socially dysfunctional who lack the self awareness and sense of personal accountability to find themselves responsible for their personal development.
Exactly. Some people just don't understand this and consider all feminists as fake ones. Fake feminists are tarnishing what real feminism stands for. Real feminists will never support movements like "free the nipple" or crap like that.
You're 40 years too late. Trying to reclaim the word feminism now is like trying to reclaim coon or negro or colored.
It's over. The word is toxic. Stop trying to bring it back.
You want to be for equal rights? Fabulous. You don't have to nail that desire to the F word.
This woman would argue that it's been bad since the beginning. (Long interview)
https://youtu.be/r7kqqywey7gFeminism is looking after the interests of women. Gender equality is that both genders are equal. Great in theory but in reality it is not possible. Their rights should be the same but their roles in society are different, so equality is not fully possible...
Great Take, I’ve been saying this for years. Women like the second photo are giving a bad name to people who support equality.
Yep it's started with that ideas and now nobody know what is that , every fanaticism (Nazism, fascism, communism, feminism etc ) have the same creator and budget investors , like George Soros and more others from masons, people are forget who is the real enemy, and start fight against each other for every simple reason.
Yeah it's really morphed into something else at this point. I personally believe fourth-wave feminism is the female counterpart to MGTOW and the 'incel' movement.
I think the women in the last picture are feminists, they're also activists. (Who's Amina? Amina Wadud?) Suffragettes disrupted events and dressed "inappropriately", according to their time.
The list of things that you say don't make you a feminist are things that they are free to do, or not, thanks to feminists. Saying you're not a feminist because you don't behave that was, that's wrong.
That last picture was sooo GOTDAMN funny😭😂. I wasn't prepare for that haha
But nah seriously this was really good and I actually agree with it.
What's "funny" about it to me is that it looks like the word under the f-word is censored and the finger is censored but the f-word is not.
@dandee55 nah the f-word wasn't suppose to be censored that's why. What's actually censored was their boobs.
I know, but it just looks like 2 letters are blocked out.
But why censor the finger and not the word? I think the word is more offensive than the finger.
@dandee55 no lol they didn't censored the finger. She probably wasn't even giving the middle finger. What they censored was all their boobs. Notice the girl in the middle (in the back) is the only one who isn't censored? Because the other lady hand blocks her boobs
Oh, Ok! "Free the nipple!" -- Just kidding. :D
I agree with what you think feminism should and shouldn't be, but the fact of the matter is that feminism is what it is. It has never been just what it is supposed to be, and it never will be. In fact, it will only continue to get worse because it has no valid goals in the West, where women have more rights and privileges than men, so the only women who still support the movement are extremists.
So despite OP's good intentions, we really need to see feminism for what it really is and not what we wish it were. We need to judge it on facts, not fantasies. Feminism is what it is, and that is all that matters.
collectivelyconscious.net/.../...-say-youll-do.jpg
"Men being able to express their feelings like girls..."
Also, I want to point out that this ^^ is the ridiculous example feminist always use when they try to say feminism tries to help men too. It is FAR from being a serious issue for men and is just an example of how feminism sees everything through gynocentric lenses. The real issue men face are not even on the radar of feminists.
Actually feminism is exactly what I wrote.
And if you carefully read my MyTake then you would understand that these innaprorpriate /outrageous behaviours from women that label themselves as 'feminists' don't match the defnition neither the idea, therefore these ARE NOT feminist actions.
What they do it's vandalism.
I also said (but you obviously didn't understood) that sadly people confuse the real feminism with the fake one.
And about the 'ridiculous example' actually it is a huge problem for most of males in this world. A new researched shoed that 3/5 men have actually struggle with buliding and keeping their relationships and friendships just because they were taught by society that being emotional or/and expressing your feelings is something only females do.
For you it might be something ridiculous but for men around the world is something important.
I read and understood everything you wrote. You are just simply wrong. Feminism is what it is, not what you wish it were. Like anyone else, feminism must be judged based on its actions. Feminism is as feminism does. The definition you quoted is simply inaccurate, that's all.
Again, the issue of men not being able to express their feelings is just women projecting their own thoughts and experiences on men. I'm not saying it isn't a problem at all; it's just insignificant when compared to the much more significant challenges men and boys face in society today.
Actually this definition is written a long time a go before these terrible actions of desperate women happen, fact that make the actions innacurate to the definition not the opposite. That means that what they do it's just has no relationship with the actual purpose of this movement.
What does that mean? That they just use the word feminism as a label for their actions.
That doesn't make them feminists.
I never said that this was men's biggest problem, I just said that it's something that is included in one of the problems.
You my friend are the wrong one.
We don't live in the past. Today's feminism is what we are talking about, and trying to judge feminism based on the actions of feminists in the past is pointless. It is today's feminism we are judging, and the dictionary definition is woefully inaccurate and should be changed.
My point was that the whole "men should be able to share their feelings" thing is the example feminists always give when they try to say feminism helps men. It's like saying Nazis helped Jews because they handed them a glass of water while escorting them into the gas chamber.
What exactly can't you understand?
What they do today isn't feminist actions, they just use this word as their label.
Get that thing in your tiny head.
And considering feminists and nazis the same just shows that you are pretty shallow I won't even comment on that.
Feminism is as feminism does, period. Get that into your tiny feminist head.
But what these women do isn't feminism!
So how are these actions characterize feminism?
What you say is pure crystal clear bullshit, and the fact that you even hide behind the 'anonymous' shit just shows that you are just too afraid to say your opinion.
I won't even bother with you anymore.
Au revoir
The MGTOW guys at GaG will never understand that they are their own worst enemy. The phrase, " be responsible for yourself" does not work on them. In their philosophy, they are the only group that does not need to be personally responsible.
I wouldn't worry about convincing the guys here. They are totally under the notion they are victims and the only thing they can do is petition others to stop forming groups and fighting for their own causes.
@RolandCuthbert You're right.
You can be married. I am not sure what that has to do with anything. You see feminism as a threat to you. Which is weird.
Did feminism stop you from dating? Did it stop you from getting married?
And why do you care whether or not feminism has any valid goals? PETA has no valid goal in my opinion. I don't view them as a threat to my existence.
"I don't see feminism as a threat to me personally. I see it as a toxic and divisive force in society. That's an important distinction."
Oh, then that is far worse than affecting you personally. Because you have made it into a boogeyman.
As for the support for feminism, you are just using weird circular logic. You don't support it, you don't like it. Why then would you care that people are turning away from it?
That would seem to be a concern for a feminist. Not for a man who claims it is a divisive force.
My point to feminists is not waste time with people who are illogical and irrational. If they are talking to a man who's who definition of masculinity is based upon female subservience, it won't get them anywhere.
No, that is pretty circular. And I pointed out why. If feminism becomes this boogeyman for everyone, you will have what you wished for.
But the question won't go away. Feminism is just a term. Women will still want equity and will do what they must to obtain it. Of course, they will think another term. And the process will start all over again.
Maybe it is a bit useless to dislike a term when the point is you don't like the movement.
But I am just offering a bit of awareness.
I don't think that is very self-aware. You could call it "pop-tarts". And you would then have to figure out how to demonize the word "pop-tarts".
And yes, you made it into a boogeyman. In your mind, it is the powerfully divisive force that is crippling Western Civilization, yet by your own admission very few people even want to be associated with the term.
The point is, which you are avoiding discussion about, the actual goals of the movement. Because those goals won't disappear. Those goals will never go away, even if the term is demonized and hated for the next thousand years.
And no MGTOW is not the other side of the coin. MGTOW is just a bunch of whiny men who will always be whiny. Because they can only feel powerful as men as long as women have a lack of power. That their definition of maleness.
And that's my point to you. Stop defining your maleness with respect to women. It is just plain silly. And dude, nothing is more real than that.