Feminism is bad but whose fault is it?

[CubsterShura]

So I came across a person saying that feminism should entirely be thrown away because there are women getting enslaved in Libya right now and no one is doing anything about it, and more things are happening worldwide but feminists only care about being able to walk topless and complain about mansplaining.

I do agree feminists like that exist and I'm not a fan of such people either. But I would like you to imagine two scenarios right now and then answer a quick question.

Scenario A: A Feminist social media post that asks for donation or signing a petition that will be used to battle FGM and 'ironing' in the middle eastern and African countries. Or something else like sex trafficking, child marriage, releasing rape victims who are jailed for adultery while their rapists are free etc.

This is one of the few cases like this that ever went viral even though plenty of women are still going through it right now!

Scenario B: A Feminist social media post of the picture of a woman publicly breastfeeding her baby, holding a placard that says 'any man who thinks my baby's food is meant for his pleasure is a fucking pig' or something just as scandalous and controversial.

Question: Which post is more likely to get viral? Which post is more likely to get more attention?

It's us. It's because of our love for scandalous things online that the misandrists get more attention and power. Remember, on the internet and media, any publicity is good publicity because even if you leave hate comments and you tag your friends to show how ridiculous the woman in scenario B is, it's getting more engagement, more reach, and it's more likely to pop up on other people's feed, unlike scenario A that most people just scroll by and it doesn't get much attention even though it's tackling a huge issue.

So it means that no matter how many feminist there are who deal with 'real issues', they never get as much attention as the controversial and scandalous ones do. As a result the scandalous ones are all the kind of feminists you come across online and you think that all feminists are like this when it really isn't true at all. And it convinces other feminist women that they also need to post scandalous stuff if they want to get more publicity, and it goes on like that.

If you want more good feminists, start supporting and donating to feminists who actually care about the issues that you believe should be solved.

Lemme know what you think about it.

[curiousnorway]

I support feminism in moderation, but I don't support people wanting men to have less rights than women - also called "Feminazi" or "Femi-extremists" on the internet.

The feminism I support is something I prefer to call for "human right activism" or "egalitarianism". I think both men and women should be allowed the same rights and opportunities. That means economically, politically, socially, legally and career wise. Both men and women should be allowed to vote, have their own opinion, be allowed to own property, take care of their own economy, choose their own career path and so on. I also think it's up to people if they wants to follow the traditional gender roles or not.

I do however not support that women doesn't allow men to have a say in abortion as long abortion is legal. Especially not when the men often have to pay child support. It's both the mother's and father's child - so the mother aborting the child if the father wants to keep it would hurt as much as regular murder. How the father shouldn't be allowed to force the mother to undergo an abortion, she shouldn't be allowed to take one without his say as long there were no danger for her life.

I don't think "Her body, her choice" is about women's rights. It's more about the children's right. Children doesn't have the right to live by law in most countries before they're old enough; something I think is unfair. I support pro-life feminism, but not pro-choice feminism.

Why I'm Pro-Life & My Answers To Pro-Choice Arguments ↗

[CubsterShura]

Hey this isn't what the myTake is about 😅

[Badballie]

The women will walk over you and do as they please.

[OlderAndWiser]

Sometimes, arguments about feminism occur because of definitions. What I think of as a feminist and what you think of as a feminist may be different things entirely. That should always be a starting point for these discussions.

The point that you made is an excellent observation. What we read on social media, or what we see in news media, is a horribly skewed sample of information. Of course, the news media wants to propagandize and needs to maintain credibility, so they will try to dispel any notion that they are not an accurate and reliable source of information.

The news media is not our friend!

[CubsterShura]

The post isn't necessarily about what is feminism or whether or not you are a feminist or agree with feminists. This was simply a response to many people saying that feminists don't care about 'real issues'. I just wanted to say that we are the ones who make negative people or negative content viral.

[OlderAndWiser]

And you made that point very well.

[CubsterShura]

Thanks a lot for understanding why I was trying to mean! A lot of people in the comments clearly didn't get it yet.

[Oram52]

Ignore the media or social media in general, where are these good feminists? Definitions aside? Fair enough she might've point case or two but what exactly are feminists doing recently do advance female causes? Those issues she pointed to scenario 1 feminism is not needed, many many different organizations already do a great job.

[ranaelucky7]

Our culture creates a black and white - us against them- Men vs women type of thinking that is toxic. And we as human beings think very much like children: “oh I don’t like them because they’re different” we don’t try to understand someone’s whole perspective and reasoning for who they are... so therefore we snap to this childish mode of understanding and thinking fueling a hatred and opposing sides.

Check out Aaron doughtys videos on YouTube!
Will change your thoughts forever. He will explain how our thinking is 3D and help you see how higher beings think and live in 4D and 5D - crazy stuff! 🧐🤔😬

[ranaelucky7]

Feminism is toxic. It’s wonderful to take pride in who you are.. but bashing men is absolutely unacceptable and no better than the sexist men who they have been mistreated by. 😓 same as rasicm. Don’t stoop - elevate!

[CubsterShura]

Feminism might be toxic but so is rape culture, honor killings, sex trafficking and slavery, child marriage, forced marriage, I could carry this on.

[Goodwifie]

There was a call out to all who could possibly help a young mother on the verge of homelessness.
She was raped by her step father an estimated of 1800 times over the years, she feel pregnant with his baby and when he found out he tried to beat the baby out of her. She ran away from home, her mother disowned her along with all of her family.
We all pitched in and raised enough money to get her a decent rental with 3 months rent paid, grocery voucher and furniture.
This was all started by a journalist Sheree Moody a known feminist doing her best to help this young lady who she had never met.

[CubsterShura]

Too bad people don't pay attention to them.

[Shezadi]

Thanks for sharing the story.

[Goodwifie]

@Shezadi I donated all of my kids baby things to my local women's refuge.
Pram, porta cot, rocker, clothing, toys, blankets, highchair and maternity clothes.
It took me two trips using my station wagon.
I did it because I wanted to give to someone who has nothing instead of selling it all off cheap to people who could afford it.

[CubsterShura]

That's so amazing!

[Shezadi]

Goodwifie, that's really kind of you

[Goodwifie]

The amazing people are the ones who manage to escape from their abuser.
The amazing people are the ones who work at these shelters picking up the pieces of a woman who's so broken.
What did was kind but not amazing.

[Shezadi]

goodwifie, true words spoken. Hats off.

[MlleCake]

Feminism isn't bad. Some issues feminists care about are obscure, but that doesn't make feminism bad. Dome feminists are very angry and say angry things. That doesn't make feminism bad either.

Don't drink the Kool-Aid sister.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

In my mind I view two basic types of feminist:

1) Classical feminist
2) Postmodern feminist

The classical feminist believes in equal opportunities, and fights for women's right in areas and parts of the world they are sorely lacking. They fight for the rights of disenfranchised, abused, and otherwise "forgotten" women.

I wholeheartedly support the classical feminist movement-- it creates a high tide that raises all ships. Men ultimately benefit from this movement as well as women-- after all, a woman may be a man's daughter, or wife, or mother, aunt, friend, etc. And most men view themselves as having a duty of care for the women in their life. So what's good for the women is good for the men.

The postmodern feminists however, are a perversion of feminism's original aims. They claim to want equality, but actually their only motivation is power, and by extension, the systematic dismantling of men's rights. Their language is straight out of the Newspeak of 1984. They claim to champion free speech and free protest, yet regularly shut down voices of those who disagree with them (even other women, and especially conservative/ right-leaning women). Their policy is "deplatform, unperson, dehumanise". They reduce everyone down to tribal affiliations along lines of race, gender, age, disability, etc. They want forced equity and inclusion and diversity, and ridicule the idea of meritocracy and "earning one's keep". Their entitlement and inflated egos are entrenched even deeper via social media virtue signalling, targeted harassment campaigns, and college campus faculties whose sole purpose is to enable their toxic whims and Orwellian groupthink.

The postmodern feminist is "feminist" in name only-- they only care about women insofar as doing so would advance their own movement. As soon as a woman becomes "problematic" towards the group's (often unspoken, yet collectively recognised) aims, then she will earn the full weight of their scorn and cry-bullying.

These women are far more toxic than the "toxic men" they constantly rail against. And they get away with it coz people are too afraid to speak out and get targeted themselves.

Men: it's very possible to support classical feminism whilst disavowing postmodern feminism.

Women: don't let the postmodern feminists drag you down into the muck. Their road to hell is paved with good intentions and virtue signals-- see through the smoke and mirrors, and realise the maliciousness lurking under the surface. They are your enemy, because they don't support women's rights, they only support whatever confers power for their own movement. And as such, they often tend towards misandry, sexism, crybullying, cyberbullying, and all other kinds of awfulness.

[Miristheiss]

"Fault"

I'm not sure, or even what does fault mean.

Historically, in the American colonies and in the USA, I'm not sure what "oppression" there was vs. myths commonly thrown about.

Women couldn't vote at one point but to some extent voting rights have always changed. In the beginning not all men could vote either. LAND OWNERS got to vote. Land owners were considered ones that actually had a stake in the countries affairs vs. someone who was just passing through... kind of along the lines of... if it is your OWN HOME who will cherish it, take care of it, fix it up, invest in it... vs. if it is paid for by the government and it really isn't your home... it is someone else's money, you don't really care, you won't take care of it, you let it go and party in it and don't care if it is a dump... it isn't yours.

Voting laws have always been evolving... women weren't targeted.

Have women ever NOT been allowed to work? Women have always gone to school here in the USA... was it mainly women didn't need to work (even though some did) or was it mainly a child birth issue and an economic issue?

Women had babies, that takes them out of the work force to have and raise babies. Remember birth control pills and the sexual revolution didn't come about until the late 60's early 70's. Many women wanted to have families and to be mom's... if they are doing that they can't be gone 40 hours a week. Women not wanting kids is been coming on more the last few decades. Many women that put of families for careers end up not being happy once they get into their 30's.

Economically, a man used to be able to take care of a family by being the only one who worked. Doubling the workforce by women entering it and the high levels of poor immigrants that come in willing to work under the table to horrible wages kind of pushed the basic, middle class salaries down. Because of that, many times it takes two salaries to support a family now.

The USA wasn't fully "tamed" and free of overt struggle until the last 100-150 years. Before that... life was SURVIVAL... not oppression of women. People worked all day long to be able to eat. There wasn't vast industrial farms that led us to easy grocery store visits to get food, there wasn't indoor plumbing, refrigerators, computers, HVAC units, electricity... people had to work hard to make it and the women were pregnant... them leaving the house to go to the "city" to work was an idiotic thought.

Some women have always worked... I'm not aware of it being against the law to work but just not as many did it and they were teachers and dress makers and things like that.

Society has changed and we've become more free. We have more free time to feel bored and unsatisfied, women biologically had babies and daycare centers in which other people raised your children didn't really exist. If you didn't want kids you didn't have sex. BC pills and condoms weren't everyday items.

A lot of the "oppression" preached at women now... I'm not sure it really ever existed in the USA like they are led to believe.
Men were gentlemen more in the past and were to honor women... now that has basically gone away. A woman is just another human. Men owe women nothing different than they'd owe any man they pass on the street.

I'm not sure what the main issues women of the 60's mainly railed against. Today's feminism is just idiotic. These entitled, idiot 20 year olds in colleges in the west... having the gall to act "oppressed" instead of overtly blessed and entitled to live in a western country and all of the rights, privileges, freedoms, educational, technology, food supply, energy supply abundances we have.

[CubsterShura]

Read the myTake, goddamnit 🤦

[tiffany_g]

To answer the headline question, it's feminism's fault. First wave feminism was a necessity. Second wave on is just a malicious shambling zombie of a once vital institution.

Women's suffrage and equal pay for equal work are noble endeavors. Once those were achieved the focus turned to securing as a right something that, if it would have victimized any other group of people, would be seen as a human rights violation. In the process they brought about a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment (women can unilaterally opt out of parenthood, men can only do so with the permission of the woman. Not saying court mandated child support should be abolished, but it does present an issue from a constitutional perspective).

Now it's no longer about equality for women. It's about the supremacy of women. On a legal level women have a much lower burden of proof to prove a man to be an unfit father than a man has to prove a woman to be an unfit mother. Women draw shorter sentences on average than men for the same crimes.

On a social level we have the whole "toxic masculinity" thing, otherwise known as that thing that kept our ancestors from being eaten by wolves. Men put their jobs on the line if they politely invite a female coworker to see a movie after work on Friday. If a man speaks to a woman on the street without being spoken to first, whether it's to strike up a conversation to get to know her or merely to ask where the nearest bus stop is he's seen as predatory.

Frankly it's time to throw feminism into the wood chipper and focus on egalitarianism. I'm getting tired of watching my nephews grow up apologizing for being men. I'm all for ending female genital mutilation in Africa, but I also think we should end male genital mutilation here in the US. My support for topfreedom isn't a feminist issue. I'm not even feminist. It's an equal rights issue period. This one just happens to be a gendered issue.

If a man leaves an abusive wife or girlfriend or gets thrown out of his home and can't afford a motel room or have anyone to stay with he shouldn't have to sleep on the street. He should have a shelter to go to the same as women in the same situations have.

Children shouldn't have to endure an abusive or neglectful mother because the courts default to maternal custody and require evidence from the father that often can't be legally obtained. Judges with a bias toward either gender should be disbarred. I personally know a judge who would rather send a child to foster care than grant paternal custody. She shouldn't be a judge.

Feminism is bad because it outlived its purpose. It gained full equality for women in first world nations, there are still quite a few issues that need worked on in the third world, then created inequality for two segments of the population.

In first world nations such as the US, Canada, Great Britain, etc. we need to forget about feminism and just focus on human rights period. Female genital mutilation, child marriage, sex trafficking, none of those are feminist issues. They're human rights issues.

By focusing on the gender of the afflicted you ignore equal atrocities. There are young boys trafficked just like women, then they're often killed when they get too old. There are countries where boys are kidnapped, castrated, basically forced to be trans, and sold off just like the women who are being trafficked. But since sex trafficking is seen as a feminist issue these boys are often ignored, and if they're rescued it's only a side effect of rescuing the women.

Basically feminism is bad because it focuses on only getting half of the job done.

[AlphaGhost]

There is no way to turn this around now and every female in world that supported the movement is responsible for its current status now. They are raising idiotic points to support their claims,
1) Young marriages while infact a female can have sex at the age of 13 and can give natural birth. The age of the 16 is very very safe for any girl for anything but still they complain about early marriages based upon the scientific point of view. The science on the other hand supports young marriages but even go as far as to endorse it from reproductive point of view.
The problem is not with the young Marriage but its infact with the MARRIAGE-THING like She can't study, work and enjoy her life after that with her sole purpose in this world is giving birth to Child.
#NO we have to update the concept of marriage and force to woman to work but some dead-beat useless lazy woman support it cuz they only want to enjoy the life (Eat and watch Tv).
Its not the scientific or biological reason but its our social problem we need to work on and update. The female in ancient times used to work their ass-off for their family including crafting but modern supporters are dead beats.
2) There is problem of the religion in the feminism too like the current movements are exclusively anti-religions and they preach Christianity values and then claim them to be scientifically sound.
Hijab thing without considering the simple fact in East you can't survive with naked Skin under 52 degree C (130 fahrenheit) and for them being Feminist also means adopting Christianity.
3) Male and female are not equal biologically and intellectually and they are created for 2 entirely different type of work load with woman having advantage in some fields while Man having advantage in others.
feminist behave like there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN FEMININE THING THAT IS GOOD AND EVERYTHING IN MAN CONTROL IS Good,
like Man should become feminine while the females must built heavy muscles and do man intellectual Jobs and then cringe to science to support it without considering nothing in Medical biology speaks in female favour.
4) Finally "all men are DOGS concept" which technically also makes her father dog and her bitch but we are not here to talk about it.
There are numerous problems with this ill fated ideology and it failed due to it. I know you will try to attack me but there are HUGE problems that have nothing to do with Equality but only designed to hurt man.

I am very Happy this ideology is dying cuz now we will replace it with REAL EQUALITY based on the thinking of our own Woman in third world countries with consideration of our own culture and religion working in favour of her. I am not gona lie there are some legitimate idiotic thing in our culture like DOWRY, some MALE'S (not man) hitting their woman and Child Abuses like forcing woman to select subjects that will help her parents to find good match (Woman in medical field) and carrier for good RISHTA thing.

[boggij]

Unfortunately this ideology is not dying. It is deep rooted in our educating system and other systems.
When regular people turn against them , they keep quite for a while. But they are still in control in key areas.

[AlphaGhost]

@boggij lol nothing is immortal even the Egyptians after the 4000 years of greatness died like nothing and now we desecrate their tombs for their knowledge. The 3rd wave of femi believes man are below us and our slaves and we should keep them there but 4th gen is d/f and girls actually started to care about the crime against the man by woman.
The concept of Feminism is all about the Modern society and unfortunately we are nearing the WW3 very fast and it will be ultimate chaos after that and all the shit that claim superiority will be again weak and at the mercy of brutal society and Man.

[AlphaGhost]

I can understand the asker point of view She is not feminazi and I am not speaking against her or specifically targeting her but we need to let it go... to built something better based on mutual respect for eachother.

[boggij]

I agree with you. Nothing is immortal and in the end feminism will collapse and unfortunately take our society with it. Modern civilization.
Maybe WW III will save us from this , but I am not too optimistic.

[SueShe]

Feminism only came to be because women have always been oppressed, even in our so-called civilized Western culture.

It started with homo erectus, some 60,000+ years when women were the preys and used as sole objects for procreation.

If you look back into the 1960's and see some of the reactions that some men display when they talk about women in politics and you hear comments such as

"women should stay behind the stove and take care of the children. They have no place in politics"

When you see that Nobel Prize bearer Marie Curie had to fight almost alone against the entire establishment to be admitted into the Université de Paris because she was a woman and basically was not intelligent enough to understand the curriculum, then you have the beginning of feminism.

When, in 2019 women are still not represented by a minimum of 50% in upper management of most companies, even though they represent over 50% of the world population, then it starts to make sense that women fight for what they believe they are entitled to.

Extremes are never good but how do you make your point understood if 50% of the population refuses to admit that they have the same rights, the same wages as the other 50% of population.

What other language must be used to obtain this equal rights?

If anyone comes up with a solution to reverse a 60,000 years old trend, then I am the first one to adhere to that solution.

[cavmanier]

"in 2019 women are still not represented by a minimum of 50% in upper management of most companies, even though they represent over 50% of the world population"

This is the only thing you said that's relevant today. I'm not sure if you want equality of opportunity or equality of outcome. There is proof that there's in an equality of outcome. To me you have to prove that the outcome is from inequality of opportunity and then I'll be with you on this. Where's the proof though? Can you name me one female start up CEO? I'm involved in that community and I can name one. To me this is a great test because it shows you don't need a system or management to get to the top. You have to persevere. And there's no proof of women doing this here. Prove me owhere is that Apple or Google female start-up person? Why is there a hundred times more males? Is that because of the patriarchy oppressing women? Or is it because women are busting their ass creating stuff?

[cavmanier]

Fail voice recognition at the ending there. Hopefully you'll understand what I'm saying.

[FroztyDaHoMan]

@SueShe but modern day feminism is not about any of that stuff it is only about man hating that is what it has turned into

[SueShe]

@FroztyDaHoMan I do not endorse that kind of fight. I only endorse the equal rights and wages but never man hating. Both genders need each other and we need to work together and not against each other.

[cavmanier]

You have a surface level understanding of this stuff.

[Grobmate]

@AlphaGhost is correct. However; I must also point out that the first example is NOT a feminist cause. It may be championed by "feminists", but it is an egalitarian cause.

Feminism is feminism. Radical is radical. Radical Feminism is a hate movement. A marxist construct to divide society and it is succeeding. To answer your question with a rhetorical question, (which I don't like doing), who owns the Media? The extreme Left, the Feminists. They censor inverse arg uh ments and stories to control what is seen. The reader is not at fault. The publisher is.

Now that's out of the way, let's explore the actual term of feminist. It seems sooooo many women are confused... terribly confused.

You CAN root for women's rights without being a feminist! You really CAN!. If you are one of these "Feminists" who ALSO cares for others rights, such as... ya know... ALL PEOPLE'S RIGHTS. Then you ARE NOT a Feminist by definition or identity-political ideaology. You are an EGALITARIAN. Please let that sink in. The world loves you and needs more of you if you are an egalitarian.

If you are a "Feminist" whose hoky concern is for the rights and freedoms of Women... you are a FEMINIST. Your ideaology is toxic and divisive to humanoty ad society. It is also disproven.. all of it.

[CubsterShura]

No dear. As long as there are still women who need help in this world I will call myself a feminist and I don't care what people think about it. Feminism exists not to hero women over men but to challenge societies against social norms that restrict women and dehumanize them and as long as all of this is still going on I will remain a feminist. Feminism has always been this way and it will be. Only because your definition of it is different doesn't mean that its actual book definition is different too.

[CubsterShura]

Honestly, anti feminist people sound like anti vax to me. Just how you can be anti vax just because you don't exist in a generation that didn't see the diseases that vaccination killed and you took it for granted you're looking for things to complain about. Anti feminism is nothing different to me.

[Grobmate]

Well.. I suggest you get a non-egalitarian scenario at the top them, because you are invalidating your own argument. Another product of social justice misguidedly carrying on without facts. It's a pitty.

I'm not your dear. I'm not female.

[AlphaGhost]

He is just trying to say that you should also respect "the men right as much as you support the men rights" and you can argue that men can start their own movement for this BUT,
Then we will be left with 2 d/f movements very d/f from eachother with devastating consequences for humanity cuz nobody will care about the other unless they found some common ground,
like #Humanism
That's what the feminism it right now "it have good origin and actually helped a women a lot in good ways" but now its becoming pure poison and the opposing force that is forcing the male gender to form their own extremist movements or Polar opposite.
Its just like Pharmaceutical products "any drug above its LD50 dose is poison and below its therapeutic dose is useless"
2) The water is crucial part of our life but excess quantity will lead to Floods and destruction
3) The Plants are great but their will render the planet lifeless and die due to absence of Co2 in environment unless there are animals to digest it and recycle the Co2... Balance is everything !
I don't want to be part of this HOLY-WAR of 2 armies and I don't want my kids to solider it either and that's Why need to campaign for equality?
I care for female rights as much as I do for other people cuz both are Equal human beings with regards of having their own Pro's and Con's

I believe every woman should have the right to decide their own version of feminism for themselves and they should stop following 1st world countries rules that got nothing to do with 3rd world woman problems.
I believe You should decide for yourself !

[AlphaGhost]

I am not targeting anybody its just my idea's aimed at helping others.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No because they where pulling this crap before social media. The SCUM manifesto (that called for the emasculation (removal of the penis) of men and shooting them in the streets as well as referring to men as nothing more then walking dildo's) was written in the 70s. Andrea Dwarkin wrote that all sex is rape because women are not capable of consenting to a man was also written in the 70s. The claims that abuse is a "power based struggle" and that men where the "primary aggressors"(even though statistically the exact opposite is true) was also done in the 70s. Now I do agree that the media that is more extreme gets more attention (part of the reason why every on is convinced the world is so terrible when in fact we live in the most peaceful time in our species entire history (for comparison its estimated that between fifty to ninety percent of people where killed by other humans in our hunter gatherer days (based upon current hunter gatherer tribes), currently in the US your chances of being murdered are.005% i. e. negligible. Yet we are told that we live in the most violent of times). So I think that yes that could be a small part of it but ultimately its due to the fact that feminist have infiltrated academics, have infected the sciences (mostly the soft sciences like psychology and sociology but also others (one scientist collected data showing that their was no bias against women in science that the apparent lack of women in stem was due to women's choices and that when they did enter the field they had fewer requirements then their male counter parts and would get higher pay then their male counter parts despite being less qualified. He was promptly boycotted and accused of being sexist (despite him having empirical evidence for his statements)) as well as them teaching it to children at such a young age that they don't question it when they get older. I think that is the real problem with it, the media (and peoples response to it) is just secondary.

[CubsterShura]

I do believe that bias exists for certain reasons.

[hellionthesagereborn]

what bias?

[CubsterShura]

Bias against women in STEM

[boggij]

The only bias in STEM is the bias against boys.
Girls get a special encouragement to go to STEM but the boys not.
On top of that , girls get special financial support in many countries that are not given to boys.
That is the only bias.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Their is no bias. As I pointed out we know statistically women earn more despite being less qualified, they are more likely to be given raises and get tenure despite being under qualified (being cited in papers is a big point in ones favor and yet for men the need to be cited is far greater then women), women get higher starting pay in STEM fields despite being less likely to persue a higher degree i. e. doctorate or specialization, etc. STEM programs have been shut down by universities because their were "not enough" women in them (as women are less likely to enroll and far more likely to drop out) despite the fact that their were plenty of men who wanted to enroll in those programs. The list goes on but what all data shows is that the only bias that exists in STEM (and everything else) is a bias that favors women over men (just like in academics in general where boys get lower grades despite giving the same answers (or even scoring higher then their female counter parts)).

[Oram52]

What exactly is feminism needed for in Western countries?
Who's fault is it? ... Feminists themselves. Its called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

First feminist asking for help in scenario 1 is NOT needed, as many organizations do it. Feminists are one of the least likely to do it.

Where exactly are these moderate feminists by the way in scenario 2, you just just made very poor excuse of bad feminists getting more attention. But where are these good feminists? Are they the ones writing articles in mainstream popular news? Their blogs? Other feminists websites? If that's the case you really wouldn't be making a good case for "good" feminists. If there was so called good feminist we'd simply point to them and say hey see different between radical and good feminists, yet that's not the case.

Today third wave feminism is a political movement, not an egalitarian one. ACTIONS speak louder than words. In UK only 26% of people support feminism, that pretty much says it all. What exactly has feminism achieved recently? At the moment there main focus seems to be destroying gender norms, that there are no male and female. That's what shapes most of their current perspective. Lets not forget gems like Toxic Masculinity, objectification, rape culture, male gaze, male privilege yada yada. by the way there is NO wage gap, its a myth, myth still sustaining feminism.

Here's what feminism had problem with recently;
www.psychologytoday.com/.../the-men-s-mental-health-double-bind

[Snakeyes7]

I support men and women to be as equal as possible and that’s why I am not a feminist. I just call myself an egalitarian. Confusing right? From the way I see it, feminism has done nothing for men but made the relations between the genders worse. From using inane buzzwords like “manspreading” without looking up to see why sitting like that makes us comfortable and has nothing to do with dominance to systematically encouraging false rape accusations by rarely giving the accusers a slap on the wrist while the accused becomes a pariah for the rest of his life. This also makes men afraid of women because they have the power to put his social life to death just by her say so even though he has done nothing wrong and makes college campuses fear monger the false narrative that it is a “rape culture” in which RAINN, the largest anti-sexual assault organization in the US, says that is a horrible idea as it paints all men as potential rapists instead of focusing on the rapists themselves.

Feminists also love to point out that the wage gap is real, despite the fact that it has been illegal since 1963 in America and 1970 in the UK and the scare has been debunked ever since by anyone who even has the slightest idea of how economics works.

The only good thing I have seen feminists do for women is allow them to join the military and be on the front lines which I am happy that they have the choice to do so.

Feminism does not have the men’s best interest in mind as well as women’s. Now, you might argue that the ones who actively do this stuff aren’t true feminists. This sounds like a No True Scotsman fallacy and all it tells me that no one seems to truly know what feminism means to them. That’s why I chose to ditch the label, as it seems to have a lot of negative baggage. I’d rather abandon ship and let the ideology crash and burn with the people who support the outlandish fear mongering inside.

[CubsterShura]

Well, I hope the manspreading thing now helped you feel for women who used to be called several derogatory terms, not just terms but were also punished for things beyond their control.

[Snakeyes7]

It’s one thing to just say non-constructive criticism to someone but to continue demonizing you for something that they shouldn’t need to after after a simple google search thinking that they know how men act like more than actual men do.

When was the last time you or any woman was punished for anything that was beyond their control? The last thing I can think of are the witch trials but that happened like 400 years ago

[CubsterShura]

Even today women get honor killed for their freaking hymen. Witch hunt still exists.

Keep this in your mind forever. "Only because it's not happening HERE, doesn't mean that it's not happening NOW."

[Snakeyes7]

I’m curious where do you live? I might have mistaken you for someone who lives in North America because that’s where I live.

[CubsterShura]

Where I live isn't relevant. Am pretty sure if I was one of the people being slaved in Libya I wouldn't be posting stuff here.

Nor does any of this have to do with my original myTake which was simply meant for pointing out that we make negativity viral. Whether or not you personally are a feminist or what you think of feminism isn't relevant to my myTake either.

[Snakeyes7]

I understand. Thank you for clarifying. Sorry I caused a scene.

[MedievalDestiny]

We have the ability to say what we want to say and human beings do tend to gravitate toward the scandalous, I agree. Personally, I struggle to see the war on women, and who is taking away their rights locally, in my real life. I do struggle with people who are so impassioned Ofer hypothetical situations that could happen in our world but haven’t yet... so I’m not a big believer in feminism. I may be shortsighted, but I know I grew to respect women. I live in a community that respects women.

That being said, there is a lot of anger in the world, women who are very emotional, and I understand fully the need to stand up for what you believe in and encourage these women to do so, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. It’s sad that today’s world responds better to snark and crass messages and quick humorous memes than with thought-out, responsible positive messages.

[CubsterShura]

Many people complain that there aren't any feminists that do anything about real issues that women face and all regarding slavery and sex trafficking etc. Truth is, they exist. People just don't know them.

[SkipStop]

From a feminist and sometimes basic female point of view, everything is the man's fault. It started to rain when you were about to take your dog for a walk. Obviously that rain is the man's fault. You were on a bus, fell asleep and missed your stop. Obviously it's the man's fault you fell asleep.
I read your post and you do bring an interesting point. And you are correct. The loudest and most controversial always get more attention even when the quiet ones have a bigger problem. So how do we reverse this trend? How do we cut the tongues off the loudmouths and focus on things that matter? Like men's rights for example. I do have ideas but I don't know how to spread them. I'm not popular on any platform. I'm not a celebrity. I'm basically the quiet one that needs attention but can't get any.

[CubsterShura]

Doesn't matter. Still try to share more positive content anyway.

[BrittBratt2416]

It wasn't all bad when it first started out, it just became bad and over the top in this current generation. Who's fault? I say other feminist, the ones who don't check other feminist who are going the extreme with it and not saying anything. When you get feminist talking about how intercourse between a man and woman is automatically rape, then you know you've gone to far. When you get feminist talking about putting men in concentration camps and castrated them so women will be safe, you know you gone to far. But all you hear is crickets instead one of them saying hey... you're at 20 right now and we need you to come back down to 10. Chill.

[CubsterShura]

Or maybe you only pay attention to those feminists who call sexual intercourse rape? I've never come across a feminist doing that nor have I ever come across a feminist supporting female abusers simply because they are women. And I especially never heard a feminist saying that all men should be sent to concentrations camps. The hell girl, you need to double check which posts you engage in if that's the kind of content popping up on your feed!

[BrittBratt2416]

I was obviously talking about extremist and not all of them, If most of the feminist who aren't like that spoke up then feminism wouldn't be seen in poor light like it is today.

[CubsterShura]

It's the opposite. People need to stop craving scandals at all times if they want to get something good out of the internet.

[boggij]

The question is. Why do radical feminists get more attention than the moderate.
Because they are more newsworthy.
Why are they more newsworthy. ? Because with them comes all sort of scandals, and most people like to read about scandals over the quite and polite people. That is how it is.

That is also the reason that movements like feminists become radicalized.
It is not the best women with the best intentions that come out ontop, it is the loudest and worst women. Today they control the feminist movement.
Like other radicals they are very destructive and dangerous people.

Today we have come to a place where regular women are scared to speak up.
It also goes for politicians because those feminists are extremely cruel and ruthless people that destroy everyone standing in their way. Every medicine is used.
This is the female kind of bullying tactic.
The question is, can the feminist movement develope in the developing countries in a different way.
I dont think so.

[Twenty2]

Feminism is bad and it's fault of people who are part of it and who support it and give money to it and say stuff like "not all feminist are alike". The thing is feminism is a movement which the people with herd mentality join because then they feel empowered. When too many people with victim mentality join the group of people with herd mentality, it leads to chaos which is happening nowadays. We don't need feminism anymore. We need individuals who fight for less fortunate individuals not discriminating anyone on the basis of sex.

[CubsterShura]

As long as there are still women going through misogyny and violence in this world I'll remain a feminist.

[Twenty2]

Your wish! I am not stopping you. Tho what have you actually stood up for being a feminist?

[CubsterShura]

Exposed the founder of an event who was using his female members in the organizing team for sex and pleasure to male members and made him resign. Got contacted by some investigators who suspect he's been sex trafficking girls abroad. Haven't heard from the investigation team in a long time but the one of my friends who was his victim and her parents have been working with them since then.

[Twenty2]

Cool! You know you can do it without the feminist tag? You can be a Human rights activist. A better term!

[CubsterShura]

I'm not an activist or anything like that. But who said I am not a humanist or I don't advocate human rights? I very much do that's why I'm a feminist in the first place.

[Twenty2]

All I am saying is humanist is a better word than a feminist! That's all. Feminist sucks.

[morimeme1]

What someone chooses to fight for is his/her own choice. If someone calls themseves egalitarian but chooses only to fight against the opression of women in the middle east (an example), they will be called a hypocrite.

[Twenty2]

First of all, egalitarian is a bullshit ideology and secondly, humanitarian protects Humans and in that, it's the person choice about sex but either way, it will be helpful to humans.

[ManOnFire]

Feminism is a tired self-destructing issue created by... well... feminists! Some feminists say they're about women's rights, others say they're about "equality for everyone," with these definitions creating disputes.

Ultimately it is a machine engineered by wealthy white women that now passes down to wealthy, young, spoiled, white women in colleges who never had any disadvantages, and to women of other races who aspire to live like white women. These same scummy, wealthy white women also perpetuate the rape paranoia - or "rape culture" - that even women around the world are following along with and use it as a core argument or issue to fight with.

All in all, for me feminism is a non-issue and one I don't care to support for anybody.

[videmon]

Neither A nor B is correct. First one is cultural issue which might be inhumane, however that's how those people lived and live until want a change. Note that they want to change, not some retard on the internet from another continent. In second scenario... well no idea where you have seen anyone saying something like that, but I got you point. Its protests are usually due to stupidity.

Its us. Yes its us, stupid people are more entertaining as someone get sold in sex slavery. However I don't want any feminists, not a not b not even c, feminist usually use governmental support to get something that they could archive without mixing law into it. Issue with law that it changes elements which harm people who are not supporting same ideologies (which means that feminist are arrogant).

[hahahmm]

Feminism is due to fail because the only way you could have full equality is if women created their own amazonian society in which they lead and are self-sufficient. As long as women use welfare (for single moms), alimony, and mentally act like children (avoid responsibility, act emotionally like they’re helpless or ‘girly’ when it suits them).

On an individual level you as a female could be ‘equal’ but if you want a man with high market value (leader, confident, provider) he’s not interested in that. You must settle for guys who are not most/all of those things in my opinion

I could go on.

[morimeme1]

Men use that welfare and act like children as well so it's a very weak argument...

[Ámayas_20]

Well this may sound cold but I don't believe it's our job t help women in the third world, if you want to that's great but a lot of people would prefer to donate to charities that help their own people. I also don't want more good feminists I was more egalitarians, but lets say I did want more good feminists why should that mean they deserve my money and time? It doesn't, it's their job to fight the radicals and put themselves in the spotlight not mine if there as so many of them as people claim it'll be an easy fight.

[CubsterShura]

"I don't believe it's our job t help women in the third world" it is always the responsibility of those who are in better condition to help those who aren't in the same state.

"I also don't want more good feminists I was more egalitarians" ok but whether or not you are a feminist isn't relevant to the post and it has nothing to do with the point that I'm presenting.

"it's their job to fight the radicals and put themselves in the spotlight not mine" no it is your responsibility. The ones who put the radicals into spotlight in the first place is us and we are the ones who need to take responsibility for it. You can't just put yourself in the spotlight if you want if it doesn't appeal to others. We can't be hypocritical by paying attention to scandals and then complaining about non-scandalous people not being on spotlight.

You don't sound cold, you sound stupid and you really lack insight.

[Ámayas_20]

It's not my responsibility to help anyone, just because you feel that obligation doesn't mean it's everyone's job the only people I owe a better life are me and my daughter. You honestly just sound like a socialist here, no one is entitled to anything you have or your time just because you have a better life than they do.

Actually the whole point of this was feminism all I'm pointing out here is that feminism isn't a good idea anyway.

No it's not, it's their movement their responsibility. This goes back to your feelings for guilt and wanting to help people but the thing is people need to help themselves if these feminists want the spotlight and time of day they should do something note worthy, believe it or not loads of good people doing good things are in the spotlight, shocker they just aren't feminists.

If you're going to call me stupid please make sure you have reasoning other than your feels otherwise you just make yourself look like a child.

[Ámayas_20]

I'd like to point out that since your an editor you must be aware that your reply broke some of the rules about posting, but I forget that only matters when it's someone who disagrees with you.

[CubsterShura]

Nah I'm well aware that I didn't break any rules. I just explained the reasoning to you. Also yes humans are social beings and only because you don't want to care about the rest of the world doesn't mean you should. I already explained the spotlight part. There are some people doing good things that get the spotlight but it still is not nearly as much as it is for people who are famous by scandals and there is a greater ratio of people who don't get the spotlight.

Anyway I'll leave you in your little bubble now. Have a nice day.

[boggij]

In a way Ámayas is right
For shore we are social being, but we are not capable to care about the whole world.
That is why empires fall.
Our collective feeling can only expand so far. Even big countries have constantly trouble, because people can't identify with the whole nation, because it is too big and too diversified.
You are still very young and intense so you still have a lot to learn.

Another problem is that we have no idea what is really happening in a faraway country.
There are endless example of , when western countries make things worse when they are giving humanitarian aid. We often dont understand whom we are dealing with. Where our money ends.

The countries that we Westerners see furthest back in human and womens rights are complicated society's and first and foremost it is the duty of the people it self to change that. We really can't do that.
I realize that this is extremely difficult in countries where religion and politick is intertwined.

Western countries were not always like they are today.
About 700 years ago people decided to split up politic and religion and that was the beginning of the development. It took hundreds of years to manifest this, but here we are.
It was our own fight.
You also have to fight you own fights. We can't do it for you.
It will only lead to more wars.

[illkillu]

Meanwhile in the US the reproductive rights that were gained in the 2nd wave of feminism are being taken away! Feminism in the 1st world isn't obsolete, as long as there are people who want to take away women's rights, we will need feminism to stand against them!

[CubsterShura]

They are being taken away everywhere but I never liked how the attention only goes towards first world countries. Not saying that they don't need to be changed. The current things I'm finding out online are really disgusting and it needs to stop, but so do other things happening worldwide too.

[boggij]

You have all the reproductive rights you need right on your fingertips.
You have all kinds of contraception available day and night and you can even prevent pregnancy after you have sex.
The thing that a lot of people disagree with is when you start to kill unborn children for no special reason right until the birth in some cases. It is highly debatable activity.