WARNING: Yes, it is a lot to read. But you won't be disappointed. Maybe you'll even be happy that you read this and will appreciate the info.
(I hate that I have to add pictures to this. It's serious stuff not for entertainment now, but maybe it'll be okay, please bes strong to not disregard the said because visually the mytake looks like children book.)
What do you think is stronger in an average human his animalistic or his humanian part?
I tell you in an average man it is certainly the animalistic part and you will see what I mean soon enough. Of course each socialized and adequate individual be it male of female is in control of his animalistic nature more or less so that they don't submit to it completely and don't show more of it than socially acceptable.
But the thing is the animalistic part still affects our thinking and decision making very much. That is by far not the worst part. It affects the thinking of average humans on such deep level that to control this effect is literally impossible for average individual, nor it is possible to observe it happening in any currently avaliable or even potentially imaginable scientific way using today's science, except for psychological studies that in this case can be conducted to only reveal certain behavioral patterns in human beings. So the current science can only dig on the surface here because the respective branch of psychology and neuro-science just wasn't invented yet or if it was, it didn't come yet to any broad enough popularization.
What our animalistic part does, it reforms our thinking patterns, it reforms our values and our self-perception and world perception, and reforms mechanisms of decision making and that all happens completely behind the scenes. I'm not claiming that the animalistic part is the only thing that does have influence on these things in a human, of course not, but it does have influence enough to cause some very unpleasant effects which will be discussed further in the text.
And now in the today's time exactly this animalistic part of humans is increasingly stimulated. Floods of photos of naked women and men that are seen by children, youth, adults; sex avaliability and the culture of sex offer; porn; bloody and aggression stimulating films, videos, PC games etc.
Our ancestors accumulated knowledge for ages of human history and finally came up with clothing and non-revealing culture and etiquette, though they started like we are now, they started as animals when almost nothing covered their bodies - don't you see some similarity to where we are now? In the last decades we managed to throw everything over board, every single piece of their spirituality and wisdom (well, not all of us, but averagely still a WE).
And now we are, where we are. You ask me, why there is almost no love left in human relationships? Well if the first thing you demonstrate is your body, if it is THE FIRST thing, what do you think will be the reaction of an average human (be it male or female but primary men)? Bingo! It will be the natural biological reaction. And here is the thing. That we see exactly these everywhere and that this is regarded as something that justifies attraction or even choice of the partner this forces our mind into thinking and believing (without any awareness) that exactly this IS the thing we should be attracted to. That exactly this IS the valuable thing in your partner. Do you get it? We, with our culture transform ourseves into animals!
I don't want to relate this my take in any way to myself but I'm forced to, because I need a good real comparison of what it actually should be and what it is.
Until I was 19, so throughout my puberty, I wasn't allowed to interact with women in any way that could even suggest romantical interest of any kind. I was taught to have disguist against any sexual things. (no, it wasn't my paretns, it was some good will from some certain side, that wanted me to become a strong person). And througout that time I in some certain way learned to experience true love. I.e. true love was shown to me FIRST. And that allowed me some division of mind. Now when I see some photos of naked women I know exactly and feel exactly that what I experience isn't love and I just don't let it affect me or my mental patterns, there is a wall.
Well, you say to me of course that anyone knows, they aren't dumb. Yes, they know, BUT here comes into game this thing with animalistic part. My animalistic part is completely observed and controlled at all levels. This of an average person isn't by far. And unconsciously, unknowingly they develop an inner understanding and perception of love as animalistic love in the first place (not everyone, but many). Keep in mind, I myself can't blame the person for that, because it's just too much for an average human to handle when it comes from all directions beginning in the childhood and this person wasn't even taught mental control and spiritual awareness. You, if you are a women, might say, oh these males, they should have a better grasp of themselves! What animals! And I will answer, first these are not only men, you see women that jump from "relationship" to "relationship" too. You see women and men who see the only kind of love in sex or even are addicted to it. And so on.
I don't blame anyone, it'd be hilarious. I blame us all together for our culture, for our preferencies, for our weakness, for our stupidity to not see and not understand what inf fact is going on in the world, what is going on in our minds.
And now I come to the part that might seem biased and turned against women or their freedom. Please, I don't want to sound biased, but I have to describe what I see, I'm not against anyone and don't blame anyone but I have to say what seems obvious by now. I'm genuinely trying to be completely neutral even not to to be influenced a little bit by what me personally likes or dislikes, but what I see or think is what I see or think.
The thinking of the men is influenced by their animalistic part much more than thinking of the women. Furthermore the animalistic part of the men reacts on any stimulation with much more readiness than this of women. I speak here about average man and average woman. In other words the part of the modern culture that is called body revelation has much more effect on men or on women. When women show their not completely clothed bodies that directly sexual appeal to men often and in many places (e.g. online places), when pornography is shown to a man it reprogramms his thinking patterns like explained above much more than the other way around. I don't say, IN NO CASE it should be read like that, we should go back to complete modesty in clothes by women and forbid pornography. But... If we would do some things would change to better after some decades at least. I don't know what' a solution, one thing is clear a solution will only work if everyone understands the problem and makes their own contribution to solving it, male or female.
You see, the programmed men don't want love anymore. Neither they are able to experience it. And the number of such grows. Gradually women join in too. What we get we get a society unable to experience love and fixed on animalisitc urges in questions of love, family, kids. It's no joke. Look at the frequency of divorces, look at how many people complain that they are just used in any relationship. Look at men who claim they never can find a partner for real love, look at women who claim the same. And so on, these are few examples.
So one of the things that developes is the elimination of true love and ability to feel or know love.
The other thing is that women and men that humans become objectified. When you see with the eyes of your animalistic part (without knowing), then you don't percept humans as living beings with their own lives and wishes, you percept them as means, you percept them as you tools. You don't see anything immoral in it and nothing stops you from using them for your own pleasure, be it sexual or whatever else.
This is not only about exposure of bodies however, this is about culture of give and take, about culture of sell and buy and everything can be bought and can be sold, that nothing is priceless. But these two things are very-very strong interconnected. You might not see the connection, but look at it more closely: both things affect our mind, that means they have common ground of influence, both things come to strengthen each other due to their effects in our consciousness.
In other words what makes you an animal doesn't stop at your sex, it goes on and influences every part of your being and thinking in front of your closed eyes.
The indirect follow ups are increasing statistics of mobbing, of sociopath mentality.
And one more. And this is truly disturbing and this is the down from there to fall further is maybe literally impossible. We forget gradually the value of human life. If a human that isn't our relative, is is just an object for our subconscious that exists for our use, what is the value of their live? What does it matter to us that somewhere so many and so many humans have died? You might be not on this page yet, I hope you aren't, but believe me many humans are already.
I could go on and on describing the disturbances and their interconnections but I hope you got the main idea. The main intention was to open your eyes a bit, if they weren't open.
Although I only scratched the surface in this mytake I hope that you will understand after reading that we are facing a severe cultural and moral crisis, that we all together are transforming into animals and are inspired and lucky to do so.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
1Opinion
You made some good points, Regmorus. but I see sexuality and physical attraction from a different perspective. I strongly disagree in part.
First, as you pointed out, we are animals. And all animals have one primary function: perpetuation of the species. It's why their instinct is to mate. Different animals have evolved different mating rituals designed to attract females to the males with the best genetics. Scent is a factor with some animals. Most animals have to be "in season" in order to mate. Very few species mate for life.
Humans differ from animals that we know of in the sense that we are self aware. We also think about future and past, not just the present. We also record and communicate thoughts and feelings that can be handed down from generation to generation. I am going to refer to all these things as "consciousness" for now. You referred to the concepts of animal and human. Indulge me if, for the sake if my arguments, I, instead, replace the word human with consciousness.
Human sexuality is a bit unique in the animal world. Few animal species that we know of engage in sex for pleasure. Concealed ovulation is unique. It allows women to mate secretly at times with a genetically superior man, and thus gain the benefit of his genes for her offspring, while still retaining the benefits of the pair bond with her usual sexual partner.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0140175079900010
Given human biology, there are benefits to pair bonding, although, it is not always necessary, as demonstrated by many indigenous cultures. The West typically regards such cultures are primitive, but it could be argued that it is Western culture that is barbaric.
You said, “Our ancestors accumulated knowledge for ages of human history and finally came up with clothing and non-revealing culture and etiquette, though they started like we are now, they started as animals when almost nothing covered their bodies - don't you see some similarity to where we are now? In the last decades we managed to throw everything over board, every single piece of their spirituality and wisdom”.
I disagree.
I think the cultures to which you refer only concealed their barbarity beneath a veneer of clothing and etiquette. They’d smile at your face and speak politely, then stab you in the back for personal gain. They valued personal enrichment and called it progress. To that end, they’d lie, cheat, steal, rape, pillage, plunder and murder. Until very recent times, they considered women to be inferior. They were personal possessions, household appliances, arm candy, sex objects and a means to produce male heirs.
So I would argue that only appearances have changed. Women have become more liberated. They can do what they want. That really bums a lot of guys out.
Going back to what I said about biology, instead of men being the pursuers and women being attracted to men’s looks and wealth, women can now pursue who they want based on whatever criteria they choose. With the advent of reliable birth control methods, women can even pursue sex for sex sake. After all, they have to same appetites as men. They no longer have to fear unwanted pregnancy. They don’t have to depend on men for financial support. They don’t have to worry about social stigma. Some men feel disadvantaged by this. They have lost control over women.
I don’t see women’s liberation as a decline in morality, quite the opposite. It has created the need for men to evolve, to become less animalistic and more “conscious”. Men need to learn to control themselves, to treat women with dignity and respect. The sight of a woman’s body does not entitle a man to act like a barbarian.
I celebrate women’s sexuality. I LOVE the things woman do to look pretty. Clothing options like tight-fitting pants and dresses, bare arms, legs, backs and cleavage; crop tops, push up bras, and bikinis are like rays of sunshine. They bring color and beauty to a gray world. In that regard, from a physical perspective, I see women as similar to beautiful art. As far as men are concerned, women are the ultimate art form. I don’t need to possess a lovely painting or sculpture in order to appreciate it. A beautiful landscape or sunset can fill us with joy, awe and wonder.
How does any of this diminish the existence of love or make pair bonding less attractive? During “the good old days”, while women remained chaste and loyal, stayed at home and raised the children, it was common for men to have affairs and mistresses. There isn’t even a word for a wife who is cheated on. But a man whose wife cheats is a cuckold. It’s considered a huge dishonor.
What it boils down to is, the average person still wants to be in a loyal, loving relationship. But that doesn’t preclude them from engaging in sexual relationships on a trial and error basis until they find the right match. It’s true that some people aren’t ready for a relationship but do want sex. So what? That doesn’t mean they have forfeited their ability to change their mind in the future and settle down. Nobody’s body is “spoiled” as a result of engaging in sex unless they contract an incurable disease.
I’ll speak for myself. I had girlfriends from the time I was 16. None of them were virgins. All were on the pill. When I was with them, I was monogamous. The honeymoon phase of infatuation was always magical but I eventually moved on because I absolutely had no desire to get married or have children. It wasn’t until I reached my mid-30s that I started thinking of finding a life partner to settle down with. By that time, I was financially stable and had a more mature outlook. I eventually did find a wonderful partner and have been happily married for 24 years. Prior to marriage, though, I had an amazing time. I treasure my experiences. Neither I nor my former girlfriends suffered from the fact that we engaged in sex outside of marriage.
It’s true that society is changing. All societies change and evolve continually. Some people see change as bad. The accelerating pace of change in modern society gets really confusing. It’s hard to keep up. But change is usually a combination of both good and bad. I tend to think it’s good that women have more independence and that the loosening of sexual strictures is good thing. Instead of reverting back to animal impulses, maybe it’s an opportunity to get away from strict, artificial, social norms and develop personal consciousness.
Well done, Lliam. You summarized a complex topic very well.
Thanks, Amanda. It's a huge subject. Once again, I had so many thoughts in my head and saw so many different aspects that it was difficult to formulate a cogent response. This topic would be worthy of a book. :-)
Regmorus is a thoughtful guy and his question deserved a thoughtful response. I hope my answer didn't come off as confrontational. I did understand and agree with some of what he said, I just wanted to add perspective, for what it's worth.
Yes I know what you mean. I tried to come up with something to say but couldn't. I think there are more societal factors going on, that make it more complicated than just the animalistic bent. But I could not wrap my head around summarizing at all. And I certainly don't think women are the main cause of what's going on, the keepers of the chastity and morality. It's more layered than that.
@Lliam , I agree with everything you said. Thanks a lot for a response that is thought through and reasonable to this degree. Especially thankful I am for pointing out the weaknesses and lacks of my history based argumentation because the oppresion of women and their new acquired freedom is certainly very much worth a detailed meniion. In this mytake I indeed directed my mind away from what we as society gained and only focused on what we, in my current theory, lost, it was my intuitional intention to exaggerate and to present exactly the negative tendencies I believe to see. Because the circumstance that women especially and we as society gained much thanks to the occurence of changes in the last century (/ies) doesn't counter to me what I believe to see. To me your perspective is one that focuses on the benefits (by the way my brother has the same perspective as you, we discussed it yesterday), my perspective is one that focuses on potential disadvantages. And yes, I cheated in a sense, because I believed it'd be the best way. I wrote the mytake without any reference that this is just my perspective, yes that was my unfair intention. And here is why: People like you are, who can see different perspectives, the failures and truths of these perspectives, and analyze and then find their own position on the topic about which they are completely clear with themselves, such people will understand anyway that this is just my personal view and nothing more. But people who don't have this ability yet, I could convince them that this is truth (because it is partly) and let them think about it more precisely and intensely about the issue.
Yes, it's not fair, I'm aware and but it was my conscious decision. And I should mention one thing more: I completely trust you or @AmandaYVR (and of course I could mention a lot more people) that you are able to avoid any negative effect I suppose as extant that come with the vibes of the modern time. But you aren't average individuals. (I don't know, who is, I can only say about some are certainly not, but to evaluate who is is too much resposibility (well, I cheat again, about some I can say with certainty they rather are.)). And one thing more, no, it isn't related to some special culture and no way it is related specially to USA. What I speak about happens around the world (if I am right that it happens this or similar way, it means). @AmandaYVR, yes, I definitely agree that it is much more layered and many more tendencies have to be taken into account in order for one to understand and thoroughly describe the complete picture, it is but one factor. But I'm sure this one has it's importance. Again I know it was cheating from my side. I wanted to focus and to let the reader focus on this one topic for some certain reasons (mentioned above) and I did so.
You are such a fair and open-minded guy, Regimorus.
I would describe what you did cheating. You described one aspect of the issue. I kinda did the same thing. As I mentioned to Amanada, you opened up a really complex issue. It can't be summarized easily. It could justify a deep dive into biology, biological anthropology, ancient and modern cultural anthropology, history, sociology, psychology, sexual science and maybe more.
Your thoughts inspired other thoughts. Because you weren't being dogmatic, you actually did a service. When people have have discussions and explore certain topics, they can get closer to the knowledge. I was going to say closer to the truth, but truth can be elusive. Truth is complex. Most things are way more complicated than some would think.
"The more you know, the more you know you don't know." - Aristotle
Seeking knowledge? Now that's admirable. You strike me as a seeker, Regimorus.
Thanks. It's one of my missions on Earth to motivate people to seek perfection and knowledge and to look in many (all) directions:). We could stick to Aristotle or even go more extreme and remember Socrates "I know that I know nothing"... Well actually more accurately (i. e. one of the possible and in certain aspects of consideration justified points of view that seems to me to be more accurate) were "one of the possible ways to consider our state of wisdom is to say we know nothing." Now I feel like return and give the flowers too: The broadness and variability of your and AmandYVR's real knowledge and language and your (both) ability to put it all together when needed in completely understandable and beatiful way with respect to literary perfection strike me too very much. My texts or thoughts are often lacking rigor factual basis because I'm too lazy (and yet completely content with me being lazy - that's the worst part.) and also yet lacking very much of literary perfection and accuracy; texts and thinking of you both are perfect in both, it is truly a pleasure, an inspiration and a total learning experience to read and analyze what you write or respond. It motivates me too to become better in both. Thanks a lot for that!!
Thanks, Regmorus.
I feel the need to clarify my opinion about knowledge. I think it IS possible to know things. There are such things as facts and reason. It would be Nihilistic to think otherwise. I interpret Aristotle's quote as meaning, "the more you know, the more you realize how much you don't know". On the other hand, the less you know, the more certain or dogmatic you are. I see that all the time.
That was interesting even though im confused how animalistic behavior affects our sociopath mentality.
Maybe you meant it like a dog eat dog world?
Thanks. What I meant was that humans become no longer perceived as humans, they become kinda perceived as things and tools. And from there, especially if one isn't aware about this steady change in his own thinking patterns (what one isn't), there are just some little steps more required to development of sociopathic tendencies. One of the things that I not touched in mytake is that this is probably translated from generation to generation too on the way that it unseemingly affects mentality of some current generation and will be inherited by children or youth via upbriniging, via intrinsic programms in new culture because this culture is created by this slightly programmed current generation to which (the culture) the children are then exposed and so on. And little by little, in my perspective, if extrapolated it leads indeed to development of sociopathic tendencies or even sociopathy in the end. Well to be completely precise what I mean in the first place is the potential inclination to be born or to become sociopath become stronger and stronger.
Ah i see thanks for clarifying.