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My Dad and I just found out he is not my real father. Should paternity fraud be a crime? (Page 2)
Anonymous
(18-24) 
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28Opinion
And the women should get 18 years in jail just like a man would
~Mr Bails Extraordinaire
Yes and if child support was give should pay restitution.
If the deception was deliberate.
A lot of women should be in jail right now.
It should be mandatory
Depends
xx
~ Mrs Manson
If it's intentional.
If a ho doesn’t tell a guy that she banging someone else when she gets preggers it’s intentional.
@SwoleCook Cheating isn't illegal though. If we were to make cheating, and not telling your partner illegal, it would have to be illegal for both sides. If you're saying that if a woman cheats on her partner and gets pregnant, he can press charges, then he would also have to press charges against the man she cheated with, provided that that man knew she was married.
I'm saying that is should be illegal if it's intentional, in other words, if she knew it was not his child, not just that there was a slight possibility. If there is doubt, a guy should be able to get a paternity test, but if she didn't know if wasn't his kid, it's not illegal.
Yes, it's a sucky situation to be in, but that's why I think that paternity testing should be more readily available. I think that's a more comprehensive solution than trying to press charges after the fact, especially if the situation could very well be an accident.
Also, does the guy have to tell her everyone else he has slept with?
I don’t think you understand the question. We’re talking about paternity fraud. Not cheating.
@SwoleCook I'm saying that if she's sleeping with multiple people, and gets pregnant, but thinks that one guy is the father, and that ends up paying child support, but it turns out it's not his kid, it's not a crime.
The reason that it is not a crime is because it is not a crime to not tell people your sexual history. That's why I brought up cheating.
If she knew it wasn't his kid, that would be completely different, and of course it would be a crime.
I'm saying that it is possible for paternity fraud to occur accidentally, so to speak. I don't think it would be moral to make that illegal. Therefore, instead, I propose making paternity tests more readily available. That way men don't end up having to pay for a kid that isn't theirs, if they don't want to.
The cheating point was brought up as a comparison, to show how it could happen accidentally, and why I wouldn't make that illegal.
No shit it’s not a crime. That’s why the question is should it be one. To lie to a guy and tell him it’s his when she’s been with multiple people. It’s not possible to happen on accident if she lies to the guy and tells him it’s his when she’s been with other guys. Your logic is all over the place when the question is very simple.
@SwoleCook Fertility rises and falls throughout the month. It would be completely possible for her to be with multiple guys, but be completely convinced of who the father is.
Lmao wut? If paternity fraud was a thing, that wouldn’t hold in court. I personally would ask for a test. Which is why it’s not against the law to lie because there are ways of finding out already. People just choose not too out of love or whatever other stupid reason. But what you’re saying is just silly.
@SwoleCook What's silly about it?
It's not intentional paternity fraud, and therefore it shouldn't be illegal. And sure it would hold up in court. It would fall under plausible deniability.
And if you would ask for a test anyway, then you're fine. You don't need to worry about it.
I think not letting someone know if you’ve been with other guys around the same time would be lying. When you get pregnant, you should have to tell the guy you’re claiming is the father, that you’ve been with other guys. Otherwise it would be paternity fraud if it were a thing. And no the guy doesn’t have to tell the girl who he’s been with because he’s not the one that’s pregnant. Because you brought it up before for whatever reason.
@SwoleCook Maybe. But lying in a relationship isn't illegal. That's where the cheating point comes in. It is completely possible to accidentally commit paternity fraud without having any intention of hurting anyone. The thing that they did wrong was cheating, and not telling their partner, which is not illegal. Everything after that could be completely innocent. I'm not saying that it's moral to not tell the guy. I'm saying that it's not moral to punish someone for not telling the guy, because it's legal to not tell the guy, and that law can not be morally changed.
There are a lot of immoral things that are perfectly legal, because although the action itself is immoral, it's also immoral to make it illegal, due to nuanced factors.
I brought up that fact because it goes toward the moral argument. I don't believe in sex specific laws. If it's legal for him to withhold that information, it's legal for her. And it could possibly do harm.
What if he ends up having a kid with another woman when he's married. It could throw the whole family's finances for a loop, not just his. So yes, there is an argument to be made for requiring men to disclose their sexual history, as much as there is an argument to be made for requiring the same of women.
The problem isn’t cheating. It’s telling a guy that he’s a father when she knows she’s been with other guys. What’s hard to understand about that?
@SwoleCook I'm saying that if she genuinely believes that he's the father, it's not illegal to tell him so. I understand what you're saying. I'm simply saying that nuance exists.
Well she can spend some genuine jail time for making some guy raise a baby that’s not his if it were illegal. But it won’t be. Not because of the reasons you said, but because all a defense lawyer would have to say is, why didn’t you get a test done?
@SwoleCook And why didn't you?
Also, assuming she's a single mother at this point, sending her to prison would be really bad for the baby. Especially if she was planning on breastfeeding. I wouldn't even do that if it was intentional. I was thinking she's have to pay some fines or something.
If you wanted to make accidental paternity fraud illegal, you would have to make cheating illegal first, which won't happen. That's just how the law works.
That’s why it’s not illegal lmao. It’s a civil matter. Again we’re at standstill where you clearly don’t understand the question.
@SwoleCook Not all crimes are punished with jail time. It doesn't make them any less illegal. It just means that the consequence if different. And I understand what you're saying. I just disagree.
its always intentional. all these stupid hoes should be locked up. its the womans responsibility to find out who the father is, not the mans. if she cannot she should be locked up.
@lord_chilled If she cannot? You know not all guys consent to paternity tests right? Should they be in prison as well?
If ahe cannot find out who the father is, what business does she having naming a random guy as the father?
@lord_chilled I never made that argument. You said that if she cannot find out who the father is, she belongs in prison. Nothing was ever said about naming a random guy.
As I have already said earlier in this discussion, if you read the earlier comments in this thread, there are plenty of reasons why she might think that one guy is the father, and coincidentally be wrong.
The whole topic is about paternity fraud. My point was that there is no excuse, its always intentional. If a woman doesn't know who the guy is and then dupes someone as the father (committing paternity fraud) she should be locked up.
None of those reasons are good enough.
The only way a woman should say a man is the father of her child is when he is the only man in her life and the only man she was having sex with.
If she was having sex with any other men, regardless of any circumstance, and she claims a particular man is the father, and he turns out not to be she is committing paternity fraud.
@lord_chilled I don't think locking her up would be the best solution even if was intentional. When children are involved, the courts always make decisions based on what is best for the child. I would be okay with fining her, but not with sending her to prison.
And again, in the cases I'm talking about, she wouldn't think she doesn't know. She would think she does know, and she would just happen to be wrong.
I think it will teach the bitches a lesson when they go to jail, regardless of the duration.
They need to be put in their place. And its much better for the children to stay away from women like that.
" She would think she does know, and she would just happen to be wrong." - again, thats her fault and she will have to deal with it. That kind of stupidity and irresponsibility deserves it.
@lord_chilled It's not a crime to be wrong about something. That's just basic ethics.
And where do you propose the child goes in this case? In cases of paternity fraud, the biological father usually isn't willing to take the kid. And what about all the health benefits of breastfeeding?
Some prisons are starting to implement special wards that allow mothers to keep their children with them. (And no. The kid isn't kept behind bars, and yes they still get to go to school.) It's reserved for mothers with nonviolent crimes. So these mothers would be eligible. But there are very limited spaces as it's a relatively new development. So it's not practical at this point to assume that it would solve the problem I just posed.
It is a crime to commit paterniry fraud, and it doesn't matter if you were wrong or right about your assumption. Making an illogical and stupid assumption is not am excuse to ignore the huge, extreme crime you were going to commot against a person.
By that logic i could hit a guy on the head and assume it wouldn't do anything to him because i saw a cartoon in which nothing happened exept comedy relief. Stupidity does not excuse crime.
The biological father should at least be forced ro pay for the child.
And while breastfeeding is the beat, natural option, there are other ways to feed children.
And i would rather see those children in the hands of women that wish to have children adopt them than the women who commit paternity fraud. But thats wishful thinking.
@lord_chilled
In the case that you presented, the crime wasn't assuming it wouldn't hurt him. it was hitting the guy on the head, which is assault, regardless of the intention. Telling a guy he's the father is only considered paternity fraud if she's wrong. In other words, paternity fraud depends on intention. Violent assault does not. I will say it again, being wrong about something is not a crime.
And are you seriously recommending, not just putting these women in jail, but permanently taking their children away from them? Do you know how crowded the foster care system is? Do you know the horrible conditions that these children live in? Also, do you know how much it would cost you in tax dollars to implement your idea?
On the note of the biological father paying, what if he can't be tracked down? Also, that doesn't solve the problem of who would actually care for the child.
Yes it was. The dude who hit him, actually believed he wouldn't hurt him. Because he was stupid enough to think that striking the person would not hurt him.
That is the same amount of stupidity a woman would have to assume a man is the father without proof when she has been sleeping with multiple men.
These are just my opinions to make a point. You do not need to take them with the context of the law. I said rhis to make you understand how bad it is for a woman to do this. Obviously you dont understand.
" Telling a guy he's the father is only considered paternity fraud if she's wrong."- this is true.
" paternity fraud depends on intention" - this is not true. Here is where you are using misdirection and not relying on logic.
Paternity fraud depends on whether or not the man is the father. Not her intention.
If a woman claimed a man is the father of her child and he turns out to be NOT, then she is committing paternity fraud. So her intention does not matter. Thats not his problem, its on her, she ahould not have been that dumb. You women need to learn how to handle responsibility.
@lord_chilled I don't care what the level of stupidity required is. The crime itself is not stupidity.
If someone wrongs another person because of negligence, in this case caused by stupidity, that would be handled in a civil trial, not a criminal trial. Therefore jail time would be off the table. It would be a financial settlement.
No i dont. I dont know how crowded they are, im sure there are vast differences depending on which system and location.
Also, i dont know how bad the conditions are but i would take those chanves over living with a whore mother and an absent father.
You dont have to implement my idea. Its just my opinion that that would be better.
And leta not get sidetracked too far. You are going way out of your way to defend whores for being stupid whores. If they were not whores to begin with then the children wouldn't be in this situation. Why dont you hold higher standards for women instead of wxcusing whoredom.
Yes the crime is much worse than stupidity. Its paternity fraud.
This is not just a small "wrong " either. Its a woman doing the worst thing to a man ever. Worse than murder or rape in many people's opinion.
And who decides its negligence. Its only a woman's word. An unloyal, slutty woman's word. She could very well be lting about it.
Therefore it would not necessarily be handled in civil trial, but in criminal trial. Her lying about paternity fraud would probably add to her sentence as well.
If it was made a civil trail option then all the bitches would start claiming they didn't know.
No that shouldn't happen. They should all be held accountable. Filthy whores
@lord_chilled @lord_chilled
The average foster child stays with more than ten families per year. They have no constant caregiver, and are constantly bounced from place to place because there is a shortage of foster parents. The vast majority of foster children also experience physical and emotional abuse at some point, and the amount that experiences sexual abuse isn't much smaller. Around ninety percent of people who grow up in the foster care system are parents before they reach age twenty. Very few go to college, and most of them are below the poverty line. I don't care how many people their mother lied to in order to try to get money to care for her child, they are far better of with her than in the foster care system.
Your idea is absurd, and just goes to show how little you actually know about the world. Yet I don't suppose that will stop you from arguing your uninformed opinions.
And I don't hold "higher standards" because other people's sex lives are none of my business. And guess what. They're none of yours either.
@lord_chilled
Paternity fraud is not worse than murder or rape. That's just ridiculous. Paternity fraud places an economic burden on him, which can be taken away with paternity testing. If you don't want to pay child support for a kid that isn't yours, get a paternity test. It's that simple. No such protection exists against rape or murder. I would like to see who besides you actually believes it's worse, because I highly doubt many people do.
And I'm not saying that intentional paternity fraud doesn't exist. If it's intentional, then by all means, have a criminal trial. But if it's accidental, there is nothing that she could be tried for besides negligence, which is handled in civil court.
The definition of negligence is what decides it's negligence by the way. Not her word, and not mine.
And yes. They would claim that. Which is why I think it's ridiculous to try to handle even intentional paternity fraud in a criminal trial. It's a much better idea to go to civil court and get paid back all the money spent. Or better yet. Get a paternity test in the first place.
And what is it with angry men and "holding women accountable?" As if that's an actual argument. It's not. And are the men they sleep with also "filthy whores," as you said?
And 80 % of prisoners in the us come from single mother households. I bet households with a whore for a mother has an even higher likelyhood of kids ending up in jail. And emotional abuse and sexual violence by women that let starnagers into their homes is pretty high. You hear plenty of stories.
But whatever, obvioulsy you won't let go of this fact, so i will give you that. Foster homes are worse.
Now enough with the side arguments and lets get back to the main argument. Which is about paternity fraud.
" Paternity fraud is not worse than murder or rape. That's just ridiculous. Paternity fraud places an economic burden on him, which can be taken away with paternity testing. If you don't want to pay child support for a kid that isn't yours, get a paternity test. It's that simple."
- this shows how little YOU know about the world, how little you know amd understand menx how little you care and how much bias you have in favour of women.
Have you even read the original post?
Paternity worse is more than jusy an economic burden.
Paternity fraud is the worst thing a woman can do to a man ever. You think its a joke to just have a man think a child is his and it turns out not be his?
Do tou think men dont care about our children?
Do you think we have no feelings?
What are wex robots?
How would you feel if you were tricked into raising a child that isn't yours?
You think that is funny?
Do you think that is just fraud?
Its more than fraud.
Its the destruction of a mans soul. Ita much worse than rape.
Many men would rather die than find out something like this.
You obvioulsy have no idea of the seriousness of this crime, since you are a woman. Oh, you are safe from it. Since it can't hapoen to you, you dont care. Unbelievable.
" And I'm not saying that intentional paternity fraud doesn't exist. If it's intentional, then by all means, have a criminal trial. But if it's accidental, there is nothing that she could be tried for besides negligence, which is handled in civil court."
" And yes. They would claim that. "
Do you listen to yourself? You just contradicted yourself.
A court cannot magically know if its negligence or not?
How are they gonna know that?
Its his word against hers.
She can just tell that she didn't know and believed it to be his.
Then what?
Is it negligence?
No, thats just her word.
Thats what all the bitches would do. Claim negligence. No civil court for whores who would destroy a mans soul and make him raise a child that isn't his. . Only criminal court!
Holding women like that accountable is the only way to save decent men. Of course you would have a problem with that, you probably are a whore like them yourself.
That is the only reason you would support them. If you were decent you would condemn them like everyone else does.
@lord_chilled Around 2 million people are in prison in the United States, total. Around 21 million children are raised by single parents. So even if 100 percent of the prisoners in the United States were raised by a single mother, which they are not, what would still be less than ten percent of them.
Sixty six percent of children raised in foster care will be in prison, homeless, or dead within the first year after leaving the foster care system at age eighteen. 40 to 50 percent of them never finish high school.
So yes. Growing up in the foster system is much worse than growing up in a single parent household.
I will amend my statement if it offends you that much. "Most" cases of paternity fraud place an economic burden on the man. That is the situation in which the majority of these cases take place. Yes, there are exceptions and I will get to that. I made a general statement.
It sucks to raise a kid that isn't biologically yours, but it is not comparable to rape or murder. Because the fact that a man didn't physically create the child doesn't make it any less his. A lack of shared genetic material does not in any way diminish his connection to the child. It's a disappointment if its kept from him, but I would categorize that as something similar to parents hiding that a kid is adopted. It can be a shock to find out, but it's not comparable to rape or murder.
They're not being tricked into raising a child. They choose to raise that child. And again, if genetics are that important to them, they are perfectly capable of getting a paternity test. And it's not the destruction of his soul. That's an absurd level of hyperbole.
And since you think I don't know the seriousness of this crime, my cousin was a victim of paternity fraud. He found out, and still loves the kid like she's his own.
And I never said I don't care. I simply said that incarceration is not the answer.
@lord_chilled
You know nothing about my personal life, and quite frankly, it's irrelevant to this discussion. And I'm not saying that lying about paternity is okay. I'm saying that they shouldn't go to jail because it's not for the children. And by the way, I say that as someone who has a background in child psychology, who works with children, and who has done extensive research on the foster care system. I'm saying these things for the sake of the children involved.
Those are the stats for regular single parent homes.
The stats in homes where the mom is slutty and lets strangers into her homes would be a lot higher.
But again i gave you this argument. Foster home might be worse. I dont wanna keep going there.
My problem is that you keep making it look like paternity fraud isn't a big deal. It is a huge deal.
"It sucks to raise a kid that isn't biologically yours, but it is not comparable to rape or murder"
Yes it is. It is much worse.
You have no voice here since YOU are not at the risk of rasining achild that isn't yours because your man tricked you.
This opinion has only value when it comes from a man.
" A lack of shared genetic material does not in any way diminish his connection to the child"
Oh really?
Let us see how many woman would fine and would feel the same if their child wasn't genetically theirs. Im sure they would feel JUST the same (sarcasm).
" It can be a shock to find out, but it's not comparable to rape or murder. "
This is proof that you are a sick woman who knows absolutely nothing about men. What a narcissitic creature.
What do you know about being a man or knowing your child isn't yours?
" They're not being tricked into raising a child. They choose to raise that child. And again, if genetics are that important to them, they are perfectly capable of getting a paternity test. "
Do you not know what we are talking about? Do i habe to keep reminding you of the topic?
We are talkimga bout patenrity fraud.
THE MAN IS TRICKED INTO RAISING A CHILD THAT isn't HIS!
HE DISNT MAKE THAT CHOICE KNOWINGLY.
HOW WOULD HE KNOW THAT HE SHOULD GET A PATERNITY TEST, WHEN HE IS OBLIVIOUS AND BELIEVES THE CHILD TO BE HIS?
Your level of ignorance is unbelievable.
You are not a man. You dont habe any right or any voice to comment on how a man feels about this. Only men do.
Your cousims experience is not your experience. Of course a man will love the child if he raised the child for so long. The child did nothing wrong, and they already have a bond. This is exactly why it is such a crime for a woman to do this. Only spawns of the devil can do this. Fucking demons. You think that makes the betrayal any less worse?
Do you think that it doesn't affect the insane amount of hurt in his heart?
How would you know about something that a woman does not feel?
Incarceration is the least that such demons of eomen should face. I would rather see them executed. They should burn in hell.
Oh please, you are just saying that to defend these filthy whores. It has been made apparent from your lack of empathy for the male victims and making light of this horrible crime.
They should go to jail. The men should keep tue children.
If you care about children and dont like the foster care system then you should tell these whores to stop spreading their legs and get impregnated by men that they dont form a family with.
@lord_chilled
Your whole argument in this section depends on the idea that because I am a woman, I am not allowed to have an opinion on this subject.
Do you also believe that men can have no opinion about abortion?
How do I no longer get notifications from you
Not just because you are a woman, but also because you have absolutely no empathy to the situation. You talk about it as if the economic impact is the problem. That shows just how little you understand. Maybe you need to learn about men more and then you can comment.
And you cannot compare this to abortion. If a woman is going to abort my child , then that is my blood toox my child that she is deciding to abort. So its not like i have no involvement.
But in this case you have no involvement at all.
You are not the person affected by paternity fraud. You would not be the one raising another persons child, nor would you have the emotional trauma.
Your closest example to relate was your cousin.
So thats not an accurate analogy.
In my opinion, men should have no right to tell a woman to abort her baby.
But a man has the right to tell a woman to reconsider aborting, since that child is his too.
So who is the real father? Darth Vader?
Of course.
I assume it is.
what the hell how
Yes..