I’m pro life but I’m also pro BIRTH CONTROL and pro adoption. I’m willing to pay more in taxes to do anything possible to prevent the sperm from reaching the egg. I also think the adoption process needs a massive overhaul to make the process faster, safer and easier for couples wanting to adopt.
All these stupid ass politicians are missing the entire point on this.
Yes, the government needs to get out of the way and leave it between the two parties to settle it. It's not a they care about the child thing, it's a they want to make maximum money out of the deal thing. There's way too much evidence proving they could care less about the welfare of children IE abortion case and point.
I've heard and understood all the excuses and reasons of the pro-choicers, but I still stand with allowing a child to live even if its life was unexpected and puts a major dent in my pocket. A life is priceless.
I don’t think you’d feel the same if you knew someone in that situation. I’m not against what you’re saying at all, but I have personal experience with this. I was born as a result of rape and obviously my mother chose to keep me (I wish she hadn’t as her life would have had a better change at happiness), but then her abuser went on to sexually abuse my two siblings. The whole situation could have been easily avoided..
And to be honest unless pressured by the family members, any rape victims I’ve heard or read about haven’t ever aborted the child. It’s the irresponsible women who had a choice to get pregnant who carelessly go out and get pregnant and then abort it like it’s no issue. I don’t agree with that.
What are your thoughts on the father of a child having rights of opinion if a mother chooses to abort. Should he?
At what age is it wrong to kill a child? Conception? Heartbeat? Quickening? Second Trimester? Third Trimester? Labor Pains? Birth? Crawling? Walking? Talking?
If some of these are okay, but others are not, please explain what makes the difference?
Pro choice. I dont necessarily like that women get abortions and i would feel bad getting one BUT, the option should be there, and its THEIR body and THEY get to do what THEY want with THEIR body
@victoriaxoxo > You don’t make sense. How is someone deciding on whether they are ready to bring a human life into this world the same as prostitution or strip clubs?
Because you are using your body as a sex tool both ways and being irresponsible.. Abortion is actually worse in that you are still being promiscuous both ways but yet you make money with prostitution instead of using that money to kill a life.
Those guys have the phone number of god, guys can you text him, he gave me a body with muscle also I'd let extra money to buy a Nintendo switch to play Zelda. Thanks!
Also, would it be so bad to legalize prostitution? If done it would be easier to protect those women from violence, they could be more respected and easier to proctect from the gangs who kidnap young lady to force them to sell their body.
I'm not against the existence of God, I'm against the existence of brains.
I don't like to see someone disrespecting prostitutes. I'm against those doing it against their will or sad doing it but some people actually enjoy selling their body and shouldn't be insulted for that. If the god you praise support the way you think, I'll be friend with Hitler in helll, not cause I support his actions cause I would have find way worst.
@preston1997 prostitution is someone intentionally having sex with the expectation of being paid. Abortion is literally someone having sex perhaps with their partner or even husband and accidentally getting pregnant. Then realising that right now they cannot bring a child into this world for whatever reason and choosing to terminate the pregnancy before the child finishes developing so it doesn’t have to go through the suffering of being born to unloving parents/parents that can’t look after the child. Other than sex, there is nothing similar between prostitution and abortions.
I'm not actually against abortion, but I think it shouldn't be a choice. These days, women can just decide "oh this baby is inconvenient for me, so take it out." That, I think, is horrible. If you want to spare a child a life full of hardship and misery that's one thing, but if your reasons are just to make your own life easier, that's just wrong.
A murder is Christian people burning Muslims cause they refused to change religion. Or killing black people because they are black. Going on war in the name of, killing people you don't even know. Selling guns like they won't be used to kill a human. The colonisation of the USA (a bit in the name of god) Accepting every kind of slavery in the name of god Agreeing with fascism and so Hitler Accepting every kind of dictator and showing your agreement Pedophilia (abortion isn't any help for that) Slaughtering Indian in America. The inquisition.
All that is murder, abortion is not :) I'm not against religion, but the worst thing of earth happened thanks to religious people who can't understand a single thing from the book they' re reading. Not all of them.
Pro-life, but I do not believe in criminaliing abortion. Why? There is no societal consensus and, frankly, I think government already has too much power. And how do you enforce such a law without violating all kinds of rights to privacy and against unreasonable searches? The proper course, in my opinion, is education. Change the hearts and you do not have to worry about the laws.
Mostly pro life. In that I believe society shouldn't encourage degenerate casual sex amongst young people. It's about accepting the consequences of your actions.
If your child has got a syndrome or deadly disease however. I don't believe he/she should be born. From the fact that the child would suffer greatly in life...
The child is a victim to his/her mother's sexual degeneracy. Don't ever think the mother be more of a victim than the child...
And yes. I'm talking about normal circumstances here. Don't come at me with the rape thing. Happens so rarely compared to the women who can't handle consequences.
Actually I think it is more correct to think of the pregnancy is a side effect of pregnancy. Sometimes an unwanted side effect that needs to be dealt with. A sentient human being is more valuable than a bunch of cells. If you don’t like sex just say it and be done with it, don’t expect others to be like you.
Protoss! I mean i just support choice not abortion. She has the choice to keep it to and i don't care. I don't see a fetus as a human life because fetus is a fetus not a baby but if you're going to make a straw man argument about a fetus is a baby therefore a fetus is also a sperm which millions of them die during production.
@Nachowedgie It doesn't matter. No one remembers what being a fetus is like so the fact that they can "feel anything" would be pointless. And a fetus don't have any reputation, ID, citizenship and even a name to begin with. When science only said it is a living thing, pro lifes make strawman argument saying they're already a human life. Well it matters but to you however I have a different point of view.
Then I would just end up like millions of my siblings. Also millions of your siblings. So? It's a baby in your opinion. And if you're gonna keep pushing your point of view on others by trying to make laws for it then maybe we should also make laws of people who don't support choice
@Nachowedgie Then discard a single sperm and egg all together with a total of 46 chromosomes. It won't make any difference. Every time a girl is on her period, she kills 23 chromosomes. A guy during sex kills more than 23 million chromosomes. So it has to be 46 to be a human being? 46 already means human being? That's what we call strawmanning. I guess doritos are evil because it's triangle and triangle is illuminate so we should stop eating it then.
In response to what ever that was, you are now no longer making any sense whatsoever. I can only ask, what drugs have you been taking?
In response to your second part here is the definition of what a straw man argument is, because evidently you have no idea what it is so now you can educate yourself
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
@Nachowedgie It doesn't take a genius to understand people having different point of views. Now lets mix flour, eggs, milk, water and sugar. Now it's already a cake! Not a batter but a cake! I don't care if it's not baked yet. Just eat it anyways lol. Fuck logic. I'm just arguing at your level.
@Nachowedgie And that's one example of straw manning you're doing. Because you think it's a fact then what? What are you gonna do about it if I kill a fetus? Get triggered and start attacking me for it?
There has been no straw manning in this entire sequence of responses, I just provided you with the definition of what a straw man is, if you want to continue to be ignorant then you're more of a fool than I'd first thought.
My thought's on whether or not it's a fact are irrelevant as it already is.
I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for murder :3
@Nachowedgie Oh now you think that law is everywhere when there are places where abortion is legal. And I wonder why? (sarcastic) And there's that one reaction saying ignorant just to dismiss argument coming from someone ignorant enough about legal abortion in a lot of places. I'm not talking about your place. I'm talking about the average. Supporting laws for abortion because? Like what I said, triggered. Look here if you have the choice to keep your fetus even if you're raped then I don't care. I don't have to support laws like you do like "I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for not aborting an unwanted child"
I never said anything about the law being everywhere, that there is a straw man. But when someone murders a pregnant women they're charged with two accounts of murder, not just one, because the unborn child is recognised as a human being under the law, at least in the west.
I'm aware abortion is legal in places so I'm not the ignorant one here. Now you're just making desperate assumptions.
The actual quote was "I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for murder :3" Don't deliberately misquote what I say. You're only discrediting yourself even further.
@Nachowedgie Your law says it really clear. But that's not everyone's law. It's just like when the religious rules are pushed into the law book. And if you're not ignorant about the legality of abortion in other places then you wouldn't have use argumentum ad verecundiam "because the law says so" even tho not all laws are the same. And that law don't even apply to the whole western world. And way to prove me right about the go to argument saying "ignorant" to dismiss everything. And well aware I deliberately copy pasted that quote while I edited the last part which is something a pro abortion would say.
@Nachowedgie@Nachowedgie Also I never said murder a pregnant woman. I said "kill a fetus" which you assumed ironically that I murdered a pregnant woman. If someone gets charged double for killing a pregnant woman, that would be the law in where you live. Not everyone else's. AKA a law with a different point of view. And just because it's your law, that won't make it automatically a fact. Because in other places, abortion is legal so that would make it a fact that they're not human babies. But sure if wouldn't make sense to say "fact in your opinion" So you educate yourself. One does not simply get validated for just throwing ad hominems like that
Abortion is legal in England, Ireland, America as well as many other places, if you murder a pregnant women in England, Ireland or America you are charged with a double murder because under the law the unborn child is recognised as a separate living human being.
This is a prime example of where laws conflict with one another
I am educated, unlike yourself. As you didn't even know what a straw man was until I told you
Here is also the definition of an as hominem as you clearly don't know what that is either
"(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining"
@Nachowedgie I as well is educating myself unlike you. Lets see, "England, Ireland, America" Of over 200 nations. While I can see why they get charged double for killing a pregnant woman. Here's another factor for you. That pregnant woman is loved by her husband and he also love her fetus. While that case of mourning about a fetus is common, it became a standard law. Basically like charged for killing a woman and charged for destroying someone's property or destroying something he loves. But I see you won't think about that but instead you just wanna stick to your own fallacy.
I don't sympathize someone who destroys his own car but I do if his home got destroyed by someone. Not feeling bad for the car itself. Even if someone destroyed his car and he's like nothing, he's still violating the law of destroying someone's property. So yes that still explain how we don't see fetus as a human life. Because it would be ironic if abortion is legal but they get charged double for killing a pregnant woman. That just like destroying a car while someone's in it.
"So yes that still explain how we don't see a fetus as a human life" That's the opposite of the truth though because abortion is legal in these places and people get charged double for killing a pregnant woman, so yes it is ironic.
@Nachowedgie Like what I said your law. Or the law in where you live. Not everywhere. Your law followed that point of view but if there's no law, that would still be a fallacy. Like you know if someone say "I had abortion" then would say "murderer" when there's a big difference between the act killing someone who is born and aborting a fetus. And if you're gonna admit how ironic it is, then that would explain how I talked about the law of destroying someone's property just like the car example.
@Nachowedgie Speak for those "many places" Who thinks there's no difference.
"The doctor who'd murdered the child would be the murderer" Because you're talking about a child. Again in your point of view. When I say "your" I mean you as a plural. While you're talking about "laws at many places" why can't I talk about laws in many other places? If you're gonna say yours is a fact because it's in the law and im gonna say mine is a fact because it is also not in the law then it can't be a fact if both claims contradicts each other.
The scenario where England, Ireland, America and other else made it legal, but killing a pregnant girl can get you to be charged twice, if you think that has something to do with the law who claims a fetus is a human, then it should be legal to abort their 5 year old kid because they regret it 5 years later.
While you yourself admitted its ironic to legalize abortion but the law charges someone double for killing of pregnant women. I just debunked that irony for you. So the reason why they made it legal it's because they don't see it as a human child. I'm not speaking for all people living in there but don't see it as a human child. That's why i said in your opinion in where you live where law says it is murder, in other places it isn't
I'm pro choice because it's not my body in question. As a man, what gives me the right to decide what a woman can do with their body. Plus, it's not always because of "bad sexual behavior" on the part of the woman, as rape and health complications due to the pregnancy are (unfortunately) fairly common.
Pro choice because abortion is a good thing it controls the population it is as simple as that. Also how are you gonna tell someone they need to raise a child and go into debt just because you think they should? That is crazy talk.
So lets say for example this girl and boy are going to have a child. They have no jobs no schooling how do they take care of the child? Child grows up in foster care then the sex trade and drugs etc...
Does anyone know about the coat hanger project? I don't expect people to be educated.
Women who are EVIIL have been duped by EVIL men who have spun a web of legality for EVIL women to fall before GOD himself as a murderer. To spin women into the web of the darkness through humanism and legalism , the very principles of WITCHCRAFT. Pro-choice becomes your coven and you eternal destiny if you march to the drum beat of the darkness.
Pro choice. To annoy religious fanatics and misogynists. Those aren't my real reasons, but any other explanation would be lost on pro-lifers, so I won't bother.
Anything with a heart beat is living thing. As early as 6 weeks. Given most women don't have regular period a little day and she Is killing a living soul. Life is determined by heart beat.
This is actually untrue. The latest a woman can abort in the UK is 24 weeks by which point a baby is almost fully developed with fingers, toes, nails and ear drums. The baby would also be the size of a pomegranate. By all intents and purposes it’s a human.
@Thotkiana Actually, legally a human is something that at one point was already able to live without any support. So no, it isn’t a human in that sense.
@MayorGoldieWilson 24 weeks is usually the very maximum allowed for exceptional circumstances (where giving birth would be fatal to the mother for example).
There are many living ‘things’ we kill everyday. You step on a plant you kill a living thing. Heartbeat isn’t even the distinguisher between living and dead in so many situations. The sole act of a muscle contracting isn’t what makes us human.
Victoriaxoxo... Law Grad you mentioned. If you study the very origins of law itself , you'll then realize they come from GOD. Practicing humanism and legalism; are both a toxic cocktail. They're the foundations of (WITCHCRAFT) .
LOL It is a human. The taxonomy, which includes the classification of an organism from Domain to Species, is determined by DNA, which exists in every single individual cell. What other species did you have sex with that wasn't human? Lmao and I hope you don't mind me screenshotting this and posting it on other social medias because it's kind of funny lol
@Djaay I'm a witch and I practice witchcraft and I don't think you know the first thing about witchcraft. Stop trying to paint witchcraft as evil or satanic. Also if your are trying to win an argument with someone bringing up religious beliefs that your colleague doesn't believe will do no good.
@Djaay Actually different laws have different sources. In fact most have multiple. In most cases it is actually religion that derived its rules from existing laws.
@victoriaxoxo Check your facts. Neither of those is human, considering that they are non-living matter. Nail clippings are not live cells, and neither does your period contain live cells. Your period is obviously a blood flow, and yes there are blood cells, but if the cells are dead like they are in your period then there is no species because the DNA that codes it within the nucleus is dead. Therefore it is non-living matter, and non-living matter is not taxonomized. So biologically yes, an egg and sperm that have bonded in fertilization within gestation is absolutely human. Trust me, you as a law grad shouldn't try to debate me on biological principles because I'm a biochemistry major with both parents as medical doctors and I'm soon to be one. If you would like to debate something more political then I'm sure you would kick my ass lol but not when it comes to biology :) But the point is that she is practicing whoredom and is too weak to take responsibility for her actions when she could've just avoided the entire crisis altogether. She would prefer to make bad decisions and take a life over being smart and not taking on a consequence that she can't handle.
@Rica_ChicaUSA First of all when I said human I meant they can be identified to belong to a human. They came from a human being. Secondly, cells from menstruation blood can go as far as be used to develop heart cells. So I don’t know WHERE you got your major from. And just to reiterate my previous point, because a bunch of cells accumulated and multiplied doesn’t mean that the being they created is sentient. Otherwise we’d have a very hard time operating tumours.
@victoriaxoxo They are used to make artificial heart cells, yes, and if you look at the process of how that is performed you’ll see that the menstruation is not completed normally. If the blood flow with those cells was to stay out in the open alone, just say, those cells would not survive that way. Specific procedures have to be performed, and things have to be manipulated. One of the main and most well-known laws of science is that you can take something living and make it non-living but you can’t take something non-living and make it living. And by the way... my major is from Yale. 😊 if you don’t believe me, you can find me in the list of 2019 biochemistry grads from Yale. They are posted online. #IvyLeaguer
@Rica_ChicaUSA But that still doesn’t change the fact that it is menstruation. Blood of any kind will still carry DNA which just reiterates the point I made earlier. I don’t completely understand why you feel like this DNA is somehow less important than DNA from an embryo? You mentioned living becoming dead and the potential for growth that embryo has but so do so many other cells when they multiply? So what exactly distinguishes the fetus in its early stages of development from other cells that multiply (grow)? Without attaching any religious or superstitious beliefs, how do you make that distinction?
Because you’ve created a new life, a completely new human being. That’s been my point the whole time. When the gametes come together, the DNA of a new individual is made, as opposed to the menstruation thing or if you cut skin cells and things of that nature. Not only have you created new life, but also the cells of that new life won’t continue to multiply if you kill it altogether. That’s the same with other cells too, as you mentioned, but you’re allowing your own cells to multiply and heal instead of killing them altogether.
@Rica_ChicaUSA But why place so much value to the idea of cells multiplying? Does the sole fact of a new combination of DNA warrant it unconditional protection? With new combinations of DNA being made and broken a trillion times per day, what exactly makes it so special? I see you are hinting at the potential of the said cells to grow into a baby but why are you so reluctant to waste this potential?
It is not that I don’t agree with the biological nature of your argument but I just think that some of your main points are largely grounded in some personal belief. Biology on its own doesn’t dictate that an embryo or even a fetus is anymore magnificent than any bug crawling on the floor. Why give some human embryo so much priority?
@victoriaxoxo That’s true. As for the biology, I was originally only correcting the poster who said that it’s not human yet. But to answer your question, the emphasis should be placed on responsibility and that women shouldn’t practice whoredom if they don’t want children. That’s where babies come from. If you don’t want a child, then don’t have sex. It works every time. If you don’t do the cause, then don’t do the effect. And if you practice the cause, then you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of killing the effect and starting it all over again. That’s literally being a whore.
@Rica_ChicaUSA I feel like that excludes so many cases where the pregnancy wasn’t a result of casual sex. For example, my mum had an abortion about 4 years ago. She got pregnant because her monthly contraceptive didn’t work as expected. The sex she had was with her husband (my dad). She was already caring for my younger brother who was only 4/5 at the time. Due to the credit crunch and lay offs, my family couldn’t afford to have another child. So she had an abortion some 8-10 weeks into her pregnancy. Why shouldn’t she be allowed to do this? And why is her sleeping with her husband considered ‘whoring around’?
As to the point about it not being human (yet). I think it was meant to mean human in the sense that it isn’t sentient yet. Which is why I spoke about it being biologically human how blood cells are human to which you added that there is the potential of it becoming a baby (and by that you probably meant sentient?) to which I added why does that on its own mean anything? There must be some belief behind why you’d attach so much meaning to it, which you might not attach to the preservation of non-human life. Meaning which inevitably goes beyond any solely scientific reasoning.
why i chose pro choice, accidents happen and if someone can't afford to take care of themselves than it's irrational to bring a child into the world if you know before hand that you'll be broke indefinably.
Well pregnancies can be hard and painful Why go through something like that when you didn't even want it. who would want to be a child to a rapist also pregnancies can ruin lives. There are many reasons out there this post is just dumb.
... because woman don't always want a child. Accidental pregnancies exist. If someone wanted a child they wouldn't get an abortion unless it was a life and death matter
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I’m pro life but I’m also pro BIRTH CONTROL and pro adoption. I’m willing to pay more in taxes to do anything possible to prevent the sperm from reaching the egg. I also think the adoption process needs a massive overhaul to make the process faster, safer and easier for couples wanting to adopt.
All these stupid ass politicians are missing the entire point on this.
Yes, the government needs to get out of the way and leave it between the two parties to settle it. It's not a they care about the child thing, it's a they want to make maximum money out of the deal thing. There's way too much evidence proving they could care less about the welfare of children IE abortion case and point.
@ThisAndThat abortion is a hot button emotional manipulation issue.
I'm pro-life.
I've heard and understood all the excuses and reasons of the pro-choicers, but I still stand with allowing a child to live even if its life was unexpected and puts a major dent in my pocket. A life is priceless.
What about if the mother was raped, by say her father?
As I said, I've heard and understood all the excuses and reasons made by pro-choicers, but I still stand by what I wrote.
I don’t think you’d feel the same if you knew someone in that situation. I’m not against what you’re saying at all, but I have personal experience with this. I was born as a result of rape and obviously my mother chose to keep me (I wish she hadn’t as her life would have had a better change at happiness), but then her abuser went on to sexually abuse my two siblings. The whole situation could have been easily avoided..
I sympathize as much as I can with rape victims, but I will not choose to believe that the best course of action is to abort the child.
I hear you.. just curious :)
And to be honest unless pressured by the family members, any rape victims I’ve heard or read about haven’t ever aborted the child. It’s the irresponsible women who had a choice to get pregnant who carelessly go out and get pregnant and then abort it like it’s no issue. I don’t agree with that.
What are your thoughts on the father of a child having rights of opinion if a mother chooses to abort. Should he?
He should have rights, yes. It is also his child, so he deserves the right to have a say in the matter.
At what age is it wrong to kill a child? Conception? Heartbeat? Quickening? Second Trimester? Third Trimester? Labor Pains? Birth? Crawling? Walking? Talking?
If some of these are okay, but others are not, please explain what makes the difference?
Never.
It's wrong to murder a child at any age.
Pro choice. I dont necessarily like that women get abortions and i would feel bad getting one BUT, the option should be there, and its THEIR body and THEY get to do what THEY want with THEIR body
Legalize prostitution!
Exactly
We might as well pay Bill's guys who go to strip clubs n prostitutes. So it will be equal pay.
You don’t make sense. How is someone deciding on whether they are ready to bring a human life into this world the same as prostitution or strip clubs?
@victoriaxoxo > You don’t make sense. How is someone deciding on whether they are ready to bring a human life into this world the same as prostitution or strip clubs?
Because you are using your body as a sex tool both ways and being irresponsible.. Abortion is actually worse in that you are still being promiscuous both ways but yet you make money with prostitution instead of using that money to kill a life.
Its not your body its gods body. He let you borrow it for a test. Which you failed. Thou shall not kill.
Oh yea... Psalms 127:3 and 1st Corinthians 6 :19-20 suggest that you're absolutely mistaken who owns your body.
Those guys have the phone number of god, guys can you text him, he gave me a body with muscle also I'd let extra money to buy a Nintendo switch to play Zelda. Thanks!
Also, would it be so bad to legalize prostitution? If done it would be easier to protect those women from violence, they could be more respected and easier to proctect from the gangs who kidnap young lady to force them to sell their body.
I'm not against the existence of God, I'm against the existence of brains.
I don't like to see someone disrespecting prostitutes. I'm against those doing it against their will or sad doing it but some people actually enjoy selling their body and shouldn't be insulted for that. If the god you praise support the way you think, I'll be friend with Hitler in helll, not cause I support his actions cause I would have find way worst.
@preston1997 prostitution is someone intentionally having sex with the expectation of being paid. Abortion is literally someone having sex perhaps with their partner or even husband and accidentally getting pregnant. Then realising that right now they cannot bring a child into this world for whatever reason and choosing to terminate the pregnancy before the child finishes developing so it doesn’t have to go through the suffering of being born to unloving parents/parents that can’t look after the child. Other than sex, there is nothing similar between prostitution and abortions.
@Djaay as I said before, it is pretty certain that Christianity was a hoax so why do keep quoting the bible?
@victoriaxoxo. Why do you keep denying GOD and JESUS CHRIST ?
If the argument for abortion is their body their choice the same argument could be made for prostitution or drug use.
I'm not actually against abortion, but I think it shouldn't be a choice.
These days, women can just decide "oh this baby is inconvenient for me, so take it out." That, I think, is horrible.
If you want to spare a child a life full of hardship and misery that's one thing, but if your reasons are just to make your own life easier, that's just wrong.
No one can force me to carry. My body is not a tool or a vessel. Sex is not a sin. No one deserves punishment for having sex.
> Sex is not a sin.
Only if it is between two married people. Then it's not a sin. But both fornication and murder ARE sins
Where did you read sex wasn't a sin?
@preston1997 Why you religious freaks are always stupid lol
It's not a murder omg
A murder is Christian people burning Muslims cause they refused to change religion.
Or killing black people because they are black.
Going on war in the name of, killing people you don't even know.
Selling guns like they won't be used to kill a human.
The colonisation of the USA (a bit in the name of god)
Accepting every kind of slavery in the name of god
Agreeing with fascism and so Hitler
Accepting every kind of dictator and showing your agreement
Pedophilia (abortion isn't any help for that)
Slaughtering Indian in America.
The inquisition.
All that is murder, abortion is not :)
I'm not against religion, but the worst thing of earth happened thanks to religious people who can't understand a single thing from the book they' re reading. Not all of them.
Pro-life, but I do not believe in criminaliing abortion. Why? There is no societal consensus and, frankly, I think government already has too much power. And how do you enforce such a law without violating all kinds of rights to privacy and against unreasonable searches? The proper course, in my opinion, is education. Change the hearts and you do not have to worry about the laws.
If you believe a woman should be able to walk into planned parenthood and get an abortion then ur not prolife
Mostly pro life. In that I believe society shouldn't encourage degenerate casual sex amongst young people. It's about accepting the consequences of your actions.
If your child has got a syndrome or deadly disease however. I don't believe he/she should be born. From the fact that the child would suffer greatly in life...
But if it is a woman that will suffer greatly in life then fuck her? I mean who cares anyway.
You're being absolutely ridiculous.
The woman had a choice. Close her legs, or not.
The child is a victim to his/her mother's sexual degeneracy. Don't ever think the mother be more of a victim than the child...
And yes. I'm talking about normal circumstances here. Don't come at me with the rape thing. Happens so rarely compared to the women who can't handle consequences.
Actually I think it is more correct to think of the pregnancy is a side effect of pregnancy. Sometimes an unwanted side effect that needs to be dealt with. A sentient human being is more valuable than a bunch of cells. If you don’t like sex just say it and be done with it, don’t expect others to be like you.
Protoss! I mean i just support choice not abortion. She has the choice to keep it to and i don't care. I don't see a fetus as a human life because fetus is a fetus not a baby but if you're going to make a straw man argument about a fetus is a baby therefore a fetus is also a sperm which millions of them die during production.
False as a fetus contains 46 chromosomes while sperm contain only 23
Plus why not use other preventative ways condom, plan b etc. Why wait so long.
Indeed
@Nachowedgie It doesn't matter. No one remembers what being a fetus is like so the fact that they can "feel anything" would be pointless. And a fetus don't have any reputation, ID, citizenship and even a name to begin with. When science only said it is a living thing, pro lifes make strawman argument saying they're already a human life. Well it matters but to you however I have a different point of view.
As I said in my own opinion I support neither side, I'm just here to make sure everything remains factual
Until you allow it to take its course n yah it's a baby. With name n I. d. but guess what ur ass would not be here if ur ass was aborted.
Then I would just end up like millions of my siblings. Also millions of your siblings. So? It's a baby in your opinion. And if you're gonna keep pushing your point of view on others by trying to make laws for it then maybe we should also make laws of people who don't support choice
@Nachowedgie do you know how many chromosomes a blowjob contains?
I've answered that above ^
@Nachowedgie Then you're just gonna ignore how many sperms are there in a drop.
A sperm isn't a human being 0. o
@Nachowedgie Then so is a fetus *shrugs*
A fetus has 46 chromosomes. Therefore it's a human being.
You may feel like it's not but facts don't care about your feelings
@Nachowedgie Then discard a single sperm and egg all together with a total of 46 chromosomes. It won't make any difference. Every time a girl is on her period, she kills 23 chromosomes. A guy during sex kills more than 23 million chromosomes. So it has to be 46 to be a human being? 46 already means human being? That's what we call strawmanning. I guess doritos are evil because it's triangle and triangle is illuminate so we should stop eating it then.
And it is also in fact you are strawmanning. You may feel like it's not but facts don't care about your feelings.
In response to what ever that was, you are now no longer making any sense whatsoever. I can only ask, what drugs have you been taking?
In response to your second part here is the definition of what a straw man argument is, because evidently you have no idea what it is so now you can educate yourself
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
So no it is not fact, it is still your feelings
@Nachowedgie It doesn't take a genius to understand people having different point of views. Now lets mix flour, eggs, milk, water and sugar. Now it's already a cake! Not a batter but a cake! I don't care if it's not baked yet. Just eat it anyways lol. Fuck logic. I'm just arguing at your level.
@Nachowedgie And that's one example of straw manning you're doing. Because you think it's a fact then what? What are you gonna do about it if I kill a fetus? Get triggered and start attacking me for it?
You're arguing at no one's level but your own.
There has been no straw manning in this entire sequence of responses, I just provided you with the definition of what a straw man is, if you want to continue to be ignorant then you're more of a fool than I'd first thought.
My thought's on whether or not it's a fact are irrelevant as it already is.
I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for murder :3
@Nachowedgie Oh now you think that law is everywhere when there are places where abortion is legal. And I wonder why? (sarcastic) And there's that one reaction saying ignorant just to dismiss argument coming from someone ignorant enough about legal abortion in a lot of places. I'm not talking about your place. I'm talking about the average. Supporting laws for abortion because? Like what I said, triggered. Look here if you have the choice to keep your fetus even if you're raped then I don't care. I don't have to support laws like you do like "I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for not aborting an unwanted child"
@Nachowedgie "Murder" Well yeah in your opinion. And a go to argument saying "your just ignorant" or whatever.
I never said anything about the law being everywhere, that there is a straw man. But when someone murders a pregnant women they're charged with two accounts of murder, not just one, because the unborn child is recognised as a human being under the law, at least in the west.
I'm aware abortion is legal in places so I'm not the ignorant one here. Now you're just making desperate assumptions.
The actual quote was "I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for murder :3" Don't deliberately misquote what I say. You're only discrediting yourself even further.
Not my opinion, the law states it very clearly lol.
If you refuse to educate yourself then you're ignorant, plain and simple
@Nachowedgie Your law says it really clear. But that's not everyone's law. It's just like when the religious rules are pushed into the law book. And if you're not ignorant about the legality of abortion in other places then you wouldn't have use argumentum ad verecundiam "because the law says so" even tho not all laws are the same. And that law don't even apply to the whole western world. And way to prove me right about the go to argument saying "ignorant" to dismiss everything. And well aware I deliberately copy pasted that quote while I edited the last part which is something a pro abortion would say.
@Nachowedgie @Nachowedgie Also I never said murder a pregnant woman. I said "kill a fetus" which you assumed ironically that I murdered a pregnant woman. If someone gets charged double for killing a pregnant woman, that would be the law in where you live. Not everyone else's. AKA a law with a different point of view. And just because it's your law, that won't make it automatically a fact. Because in other places, abortion is legal so that would make it a fact that they're not human babies. But sure if wouldn't make sense to say "fact in your opinion" So you educate yourself. One does not simply get validated for just throwing ad hominems like that
Abortion is legal in England, Ireland, America as well as many other places, if you murder a pregnant women in England, Ireland or America you are charged with a double murder because under the law the unborn child is recognised as a separate living human being.
This is a prime example of where laws conflict with one another
I am educated, unlike yourself. As you didn't even know what a straw man was until I told you
Here is also the definition of an as hominem as you clearly don't know what that is either
"(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining"
Going on tangents won't distract me dude.
@Nachowedgie I as well is educating myself unlike you. Lets see, "England, Ireland, America" Of over 200 nations. While I can see why they get charged double for killing a pregnant woman. Here's another factor for you. That pregnant woman is loved by her husband and he also love her fetus. While that case of mourning about a fetus is common, it became a standard law. Basically like charged for killing a woman and charged for destroying someone's property or destroying something he loves. But I see you won't think about that but instead you just wanna stick to your own fallacy.
I don't sympathize someone who destroys his own car but I do if his home got destroyed by someone. Not feeling bad for the car itself. Even if someone destroyed his car and he's like nothing, he's still violating the law of destroying someone's property. So yes that still explain how we don't see fetus as a human life. Because it would be ironic if abortion is legal but they get charged double for killing a pregnant woman. That just like destroying a car while someone's in it.
I do if his *car is destroyed by someone
It's not a fallacy if it's law
"So yes that still explain how we don't see a fetus as a human life" That's the opposite of the truth though because abortion is legal in these places and people get charged double for killing a pregnant woman, so yes it is ironic.
@Nachowedgie Like what I said your law. Or the law in where you live. Not everywhere. Your law followed that point of view but if there's no law, that would still be a fallacy. Like you know if someone say "I had abortion" then would say "murderer" when there's a big difference between the act killing someone who is born and aborting a fetus. And if you're gonna admit how ironic it is, then that would explain how I talked about the law of destroying someone's property just like the car example.
Not just my law, law in many places.
But there is that law so it's not a fallacy
The doctor who'd murdered the child would be the murderer, while the mother would be an accomplice.
No there's no difference between killing someone in or out of the womb, both are human beings.
No it doesn't explain that at all because a child isn't someone's property, it's a human being like you and me, a car is property, a human is not.
@Nachowedgie Speak for those "many places" Who thinks there's no difference.
"The doctor who'd murdered the child would be the murderer" Because you're talking about a child. Again in your point of view. When I say "your" I mean you as a plural. While you're talking about "laws at many places" why can't I talk about laws in many other places? If you're gonna say yours is a fact because it's in the law and im gonna say mine is a fact because it is also not in the law then it can't be a fact if both claims contradicts each other.
The scenario where England, Ireland, America and other else made it legal, but killing a pregnant girl can get you to be charged twice, if you think that has something to do with the law who claims a fetus is a human, then it should be legal to abort their 5 year old kid because they regret it 5 years later.
No it shouldn't because that's murder too, there's something seriously wrong with you if you think that should actually be a thing
While you yourself admitted its ironic to legalize abortion but the law charges someone double for killing of pregnant women. I just debunked that irony for you. So the reason why they made it legal it's because they don't see it as a human child. I'm not speaking for all people living in there but don't see it as a human child. That's why i said in your opinion in where you live where law says it is murder, in other places it isn't
I'm pro choice because it's not my body in question. As a man, what gives me the right to decide what a woman can do with their body. Plus, it's not always because of "bad sexual behavior" on the part of the woman, as rape and health complications due to the pregnancy are (unfortunately) fairly common.
Pro choice because abortion is a good thing it controls the population it is as simple as that. Also how are you gonna tell someone they need to raise a child and go into debt just because you think they should? That is crazy talk.
If you really believe in population control IE reducing the population then why are you still here? You're not willing to help your own cause?
So lets say for example this girl and boy are going to have a child. They have no jobs no schooling how do they take care of the child?
Child grows up in foster care then the sex trade and drugs etc...
Does anyone know about the coat hanger project? I don't expect people to be educated.
Women who are EVIIL have been duped by EVIL men who have spun a web of legality for EVIL women to fall before GOD himself as a murderer.
To spin women into the web of the darkness through humanism and legalism , the very principles of WITCHCRAFT.
Pro-choice becomes your coven and you eternal destiny if you march to the drum beat of the darkness.
Crazy motherfucker
R. cakes91. Lost sheep
Get over yourself
Learn the truth
Pro choice. To annoy religious fanatics and misogynists.
Those aren't my real reasons, but any other explanation would be lost on pro-lifers, so I won't bother.
Religion or not, I can't stand murderers.
Personally don’t care much, but I’d be pro choice. It’s not a human (yet)
That's a dangerous game your playing. When dose a fetus become human?
Human is a species not a stage in development
Anything with a heart beat is living thing. As early as 6 weeks. Given most women don't have regular period a little day and she Is killing a living soul. Life is determined by heart beat.
Plus u know ur bible. So it's on u to explain to God why u killed his souls. Not me. Bye
This is actually untrue. The latest a woman can abort in the UK is 24 weeks by which point a baby is almost fully developed with fingers, toes, nails and ear drums. The baby would also be the size of a pomegranate. By all intents and purposes it’s a human.
@Thotkiana Actually, legally a human is something that at one point was already able to live without any support. So no, it isn’t a human in that sense.
@MayorGoldieWilson 24 weeks is usually the very maximum allowed for exceptional circumstances (where giving birth would be fatal to the mother for example).
There are many living ‘things’ we kill everyday. You step on a plant you kill a living thing. Heartbeat isn’t even the distinguisher between living and dead in so many situations. The sole act of a muscle contracting isn’t what makes us human.
No offence (ok some offence), but I don’t think you should be allowed to walk around freely in our society as you are clearly delusional.
Victoriaxoxo... Law Grad you mentioned.
If you study the very origins of law itself , you'll then realize they come from GOD.
Practicing humanism and legalism; are both a toxic cocktail. They're the foundations of (WITCHCRAFT) .
LOL It is a human. The taxonomy, which includes the classification of an organism from Domain to Species, is determined by DNA, which exists in every single individual cell. What other species did you have sex with that wasn't human? Lmao and I hope you don't mind me screenshotting this and posting it on other social medias because it's kind of funny lol
@Djaay I'm a witch and I practice witchcraft and I don't think you know the first thing about witchcraft. Stop trying to paint witchcraft as evil or satanic.
Also if your are trying to win an argument with someone bringing up religious beliefs that your colleague doesn't believe will do no good.
@Djaay Actually different laws have different sources. In fact most have multiple. In most cases it is actually religion that derived its rules from existing laws.
@Djaay You are both pro-life and believe in witchcraft? Damn this feels like the 17th century.
sapphieruby... Dont make that mistake of wishing I'm only planting opinions. You aren't even a witch as you proclaim.
Nice try tho...
Victoriaxoxo... You're very confused and mistaken.
@Rica_ChicaUSA it is human in how someone’s period is human or their nail clippings.
@sapphireruby I happen to be witch too! I think we should meet at the next coven. We ought to cast a spell on @Djaay
There better be thirteen of you stupid girls together or it won't work... oh wait !! GOD says you can't touch this...
@victoriaxoxo Check your facts. Neither of those is human, considering that they are non-living matter. Nail clippings are not live cells, and neither does your period contain live cells. Your period is obviously a blood flow, and yes there are blood cells, but if the cells are dead like they are in your period then there is no species because the DNA that codes it within the nucleus is dead. Therefore it is non-living matter, and non-living matter is not taxonomized. So biologically yes, an egg and sperm that have bonded in fertilization within gestation is absolutely human.
Trust me, you as a law grad shouldn't try to debate me on biological principles because I'm a biochemistry major with both parents as medical doctors and I'm soon to be one. If you would like to debate something more political then I'm sure you would kick my ass lol but not when it comes to biology :)
But the point is that she is practicing whoredom and is too weak to take responsibility for her actions when she could've just avoided the entire crisis altogether. She would prefer to make bad decisions and take a life over being smart and not taking on a consequence that she can't handle.
@Rica_ChicaUSA First of all when I said human I meant they can be identified to belong to a human. They came from a human being. Secondly, cells from menstruation blood can go as far as be used to develop heart cells. So I don’t know WHERE you got your major from. And just to reiterate my previous point, because a bunch of cells accumulated and multiplied doesn’t mean that the being they created is sentient. Otherwise we’d have a very hard time operating tumours.
@victoriaxoxo They are used to make artificial heart cells, yes, and if you look at the process of how that is performed you’ll see that the menstruation is not completed normally. If the blood flow with those cells was to stay out in the open alone, just say, those cells would not survive that way. Specific procedures have to be performed, and things have to be manipulated. One of the main and most well-known laws of science is that you can take something living and make it non-living but you can’t take something non-living and make it living. And by the way... my major is from Yale. 😊 if you don’t believe me, you can find me in the list of 2019 biochemistry grads from Yale. They are posted online. #IvyLeaguer
@Rica_ChicaUSA But that still doesn’t change the fact that it is menstruation. Blood of any kind will still carry DNA which just reiterates the point I made earlier. I don’t completely understand why you feel like this DNA is somehow less important than DNA from an embryo? You mentioned living becoming dead and the potential for growth that embryo has but so do so many other cells when they multiply? So what exactly distinguishes the fetus in its early stages of development from other cells that multiply (grow)? Without attaching any religious or superstitious beliefs, how do you make that distinction?
Because you’ve created a new life, a completely new human being. That’s been my point the whole time. When the gametes come together, the DNA of a new individual is made, as opposed to the menstruation thing or if you cut skin cells and things of that nature. Not only have you created new life, but also the cells of that new life won’t continue to multiply if you kill it altogether. That’s the same with other cells too, as you mentioned, but you’re allowing your own cells to multiply and heal instead of killing them altogether.
@Rica_ChicaUSA But why place so much value to the idea of cells multiplying? Does the sole fact of a new combination of DNA warrant it unconditional protection? With new combinations of DNA being made and broken a trillion times per day, what exactly makes it so special? I see you are hinting at the potential of the said cells to grow into a baby but why are you so reluctant to waste this potential?
It is not that I don’t agree with the biological nature of your argument but I just think that some of your main points are largely grounded in some personal belief. Biology on its own doesn’t dictate that an embryo or even a fetus is anymore magnificent than any bug crawling on the floor. Why give some human embryo so much priority?
@victoriaxoxo. Psalms 127:3 and 1st Corinthians 6 :19-20 suggest otherwise to your last mention.
@victoriaxoxo That’s true. As for the biology, I was originally only correcting the poster who said that it’s not human yet. But to answer your question, the emphasis should be placed on responsibility and that women shouldn’t practice whoredom if they don’t want children. That’s where babies come from. If you don’t want a child, then don’t have sex. It works every time. If you don’t do the cause, then don’t do the effect. And if you practice the cause, then you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of killing the effect and starting it all over again. That’s literally being a whore.
@Rica_ChicaUSA I feel like that excludes so many cases where the pregnancy wasn’t a result of casual sex. For example, my mum had an abortion about 4 years ago. She got pregnant because her monthly contraceptive didn’t work as expected. The sex she had was with her husband (my dad). She was already caring for my younger brother who was only 4/5 at the time. Due to the credit crunch and lay offs, my family couldn’t afford to have another child. So she had an abortion some 8-10 weeks into her pregnancy. Why shouldn’t she be allowed to do this? And why is her sleeping with her husband considered ‘whoring around’?
As to the point about it not being human (yet). I think it was meant to mean human in the sense that it isn’t sentient yet. Which is why I spoke about it being biologically human how blood cells are human to which you added that there is the potential of it becoming a baby (and by that you probably meant sentient?) to which I added why does that on its own mean anything? There must be some belief behind why you’d attach so much meaning to it, which you might not attach to the preservation of non-human life. Meaning which inevitably goes beyond any solely scientific reasoning.
Is sentience an exclusively human trait?
For me I’m pro-life. For you? It isn’t any of my business what you do with your uterus.
If you respect people's choices that still mean you're a pro choice tho. Also it is your "choice" to keep the child.
@Aiko_E_Lara I’m not going to debate with you
I respect your opinion, and you Stand Behind it, unlike the Coward who Posted just to start shit up!!!
@Moonchild714 thank you.
Pro life. Don't ever abort your child! Children are beautiful and innocent. What is wrong with some of you people?
Orphins are beautiful and innocent to, but if they're so many I gotta ask who take care of them?
Hey look, a religious nut telling other people how to live their lives typical
People should be free. Abortion clinics should be run privately.
Abortion clinics should go out of business.
Definitely
But they wouldn’t if they were run privately.
why i chose pro choice, accidents happen and if someone can't afford to take care of themselves than it's irrational to bring a child into the world if you know before hand that you'll be broke indefinably.
Well pregnancies can be hard and painful
Why go through something like that when you didn't even want it. who would want to be a child to a rapist also pregnancies can ruin lives. There are many reasons out there this post is just dumb.
You're asking a double sided question. Why make it if they didn't want it?
... because woman don't always want a child. Accidental pregnancies exist. If someone wanted a child they wouldn't get an abortion unless it was a life and death matter