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The Iron cross and swastika are not the simbols of the Nazi this are simbols that were adopted by the Nazi and as much as the Griffin which still today is used by the US in the military coat of arms yet the Tibetans use it today and the Hindu use it, none of this simbols should be considered good nor bad they are simbols, let me instead say the following in the past this symbols where considered only good symbols for they were benerated by millions and they were every where in the world where temples where present, the bad popularity given by the Nazi, should not condemned this symbols since this are part of our rich past, our mediocrity should not erase them from our past since this symbols did not caused anything but those who caused this things to happened where the ones who chose this symbols for the good and strength they had or accumulated from the rich past, remember now and always that the burn of books in the past came followed by a big war (several instances) now that we use electronic means they have split us all into zones and limit our exchange of information, and can and they have stop people from sharing valuable information, no longer they have to burn books now you have to be more aware and more vigilant of them those who control you.
Remember, remember...
"he who controls the past controls the future"
You have being warned...
I don't think the Iron Cross is tainted as a Nazi symbol like the swastika is, for example.
My opinion on it is that it's a German military order, which, whilst it was in use during the Nazi period, also has an independent history, outside that period.
It's a cross, which is a symbol of Christianity, so being a Christian, I like it. And I think this is called a Maltese Cross, so it doesn't have anything to do with Germany specifically.
The swastika is a religious symbol of some kind but i can't rember which religion off the top of my head. Brb
Sanatan dharma, hinduism. Thanks google you're the best😄
Indeed and various cultures use the symbol as well. 
Yeah, the symbol is flipped, though.
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I mean even the swastika isn't a Nazi symbol. The swastika is found in one form or another in every culture in the world meaning it predates human migration (its found even in the America's predating European settlers). It was painted on the wings of US war planes in WW1 for good luck. So yeah, the iron cross isn't a Nazi symbol and quite frankly neither is the swastika unless its within the context of the Nazi's and how they used it (just like words, the symbols need to be taken within context of the time and how they are being used).
The Germans have used the iron cross/cross symbol since before Germany was even a country- It started during the Napoleonic wars in the Prussian military. Before that, it went at least as far back as the Teutonic Knights during the middle ages.
Since I never served in the German military and never earned the synonymous award, nor am I affiliated with the Teutonic order, I definitely wouldn't wear it.
in the uk vw or mercedes car club scene many people have the iron cross on their cars, especially the big motorway cruizers we refer to as panzerwagens but i have to say if we cross the channel all those symbols get removed before travelling because we respect the connetations they have accross the continent
I understand the iron cross by itself isn't a Nazi symbol but I still feel weird when I see people wear it - additionally, I would never wear it myself.
Okay they feel weird to you but there are a lot more good people that use this symbols as a symbols of good and positivity in their religion and their life, did you know that the cross is the oldest pagan symbol in the world, and as a simple question would you be okay to stop every one from using crosses (since they are all crosses regardless of the kind of cross).
I used to feel the same way you do know and the only way to open your eyes and do not allow those who did harm to the world to continue damaging us, is to learn and not let them to appropriate those things or symbols that did not belong to them.
You are a very smart person, you are above them...
@JackPreacher I'm not saying I would stop people wearing it. If good people want to use that symbol then fine. I understand the positive connotations with it the same way I understand the negative. Even though I know about both and can understand it's not purely an evil symbol, and I think people should feel free to use it, I still can't help feel uncomfortable with it and would personally not consider wearing one.
I can understand that and I do respect your personal opinion and how you feel.
Just remember that this symbols where and are representation of the good peace and positive side of God (or Gods) don't allow evil people from the past to have power over your mind your thoughts and therefore your future.
@JackPreacher I think it's fine to say not to let evil people cloud your mind but in my opinion as a history graduate, respecting history and the events is important too.
@fauchelevent thank you, I respect your opinion and what you think of history.
This on a side note.
I believe in the great general Napoleon Bonaparte said "History is a set of lies agreed upon" there are many scientist and historians that had gone on record against the Catholic Church that was the one entity that intruduced this time line, all of this scientist and historians disagree with the current time line of events we have now a days. That's just my personal opinion and little contribution in this funny subject.
Some people indeed believe that any German symbol is automatically 'Nazi' :D
It gives me a correct feedback of their school quality and cultural level as well...
Here's one other Nazi symbol that had been used in Germany:
Heh heh
To me the plain version it is just an award for bravery, like a Silver Star, or the Blue Max. The Germans gave the cross away like candy to keep the troops motivated. I don't think it necessarily represents hate.
The iron cross is a military decoration for distinctive combat deeds, it has nothing to do with any political movement like Nazism for example. It's just a decoration to show that someone has done outstanding moves.
I find it pretty, I wanted to buy one but I'm quite afraid that people would misunderstand it (especially since I'm a far right supporter so *-*).
A symbol never stands alone. Context is everything. The true question is, why do YOU care about the iron cross. What does it mean to you? What's YOUR context?
PS: There is a different between iq and knowledge. A lot of people associate the cross with the third Reich, because that's the most known part of german history in the world. Not even a lot of Germans associate the cross with the Bundeswehr since compulsory military service has been abolished.
When a person stubbornly denies facts one has to question their intelligence. It’s one thing to be ignorant (no shame in that) but it’s another thing to deny facts just cause they don’t match one’s narrative.
The reason why people associate it with the third Reich is because of the impact that Nazism had on the world, the ripple effects are still felt by generations today. In the process people fail to get the facts of the subject
@Neptuneheart What does compulsory military service have anything to do with the topic we are discussing?
The big advantage of the compulsory military service was the connction of civilians to the Bundeswehr. Knowledge about the use of symbols like the iron cross was more widespread than nowadays.
It’s a cool symbol. Agree it is separate from Nazism.
Doesn’t bother me whether it’s the Balkenkruez or Schwarzkruez
My boyfriend's grandpa got an iron cross for his service.
@smølf i gues you fail to do math Iron cross was used way be fore 1900s and is still used. Implying Her grandfather got it in mear 7 years on Nazi rule is madness.
I would also recommend you to refresh your math once a while, your becoming bat at it. If her boyfriends grandfather was born in 1945 (end of ww2) he would be 74 year old by now. If we assume that he fought in war he must have been at least 14 year old (child soldiers at the end of war) by the end of ww2 but fair ballpark would be around 18 to 20 year old if soldier, way older if officer. So he must be at least 88 year old more likely 92 year old. My own grand parents are in there late 70s.
Now tell me again if my math sucks.
@Janncis
1. I am aware the Iron cross was used way before the 1900s and but it is not still in use and wavetn been since WWII.
It has been replaced thoung.
2. The Nazis was from 1933-1945, that's 132 years not 7.
,3. if she is 24, herboyfrtin would no older then 35, his parrantees not older than 65 and the grad father around 85 +.
Bringen hin into WWII times.
Do the math.
No Iron Cross since 1945, do its Nazi times or he's is way way older as in 120 years old.
The Iron Cross actually didn't originate in Germany it's Prussian and was later adopted by Germany and was used mainly with the Wehrmacht or German Army during WW2 .
The Nazi's borrowed a lot of preexisting symbolism made it their own. A lot of people around the world only saw such symbols when they made them popular, thus they are now regarded as nazi.
The swastika also predates the Nazi regime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
@Red_Arrow The Nazi swastika is tilted 45 degrees.
Hence the German government’s strict censorship law (Strafgesetzbuch section 86 A) only criminalizes the public displaying of the “Nazi swastika”. And people in Germany can still display other swastika variants without issues.
@Red_Arrow Neo nazis rarely use the iron cross.
They primarily use the Celtic cross, “14/88”, the SS symbol and the Odal rune.
Condemning the usage of an Iron cross is no different than condemning vegetarian lifestyle just because Hitler was a vegetarian.
Your own definition that the only way an iron cross can be associated with Nazi is if it has a swastika (without specifying a type of swastika). And regardless of German law, the swastika at any angle is recognized as Nazi associated in most countries that had to fight Germany back then.
@Red_Arrow Germany has strict anti Nazi laws as we speak, any public displaying of Nazi symbols for non educational use is punishable by up to 6 years in prison. The Iron cross is still able to be displayed without any restrictions and is even used by the German military because it’s not considered to be a Nazi symbol.
Most people are too ignorant to differentiate a non Nazi swastika from a Nazi swastika. But more and more people are starting to learn that only the 45 degree angle swastika is the Nazi variant.
@ADFSDF1996 there's so much more about Swastika or fire cross than being titled 45 degrees. Context matters to. For Balts - fire cross/ thunder cross (god of thunder in ancient Balts mythology/ Laima cross (goddess of destiny in ancient Balts mythology) and a lot more variations are still used as ornaments sometimes still as religious symbol. Used only in 45 degree tilt. A way older than Nazi. In fact popular theme for tattoos as part of "Belt of Lielvarde"
Still i consider calling each cross as its men to be called if its possible. Swastika is just one name for it.
It looks cool.
I have a guitar strap on my guitar with that symbol lining the length of the strap.
There us a sect in today's culture whose goal is to be offended by everything in life.
That's literally the dumbest comment I ever heard.
@MoscowMitch That's the dumbest retort I ever heard. I'll take you on in backyard wrestling any place, any time, and bring your girlfriend, because after the match, she's gonna be my girlfriend. Maybe. If she's hot.
The swastika predates nazism by thousands of years but that doesn't mean you can use it in western society.
Yeah it's not a problem. What i do see alot' lately are the SS lightning bolts on T shirts and tattoos. Those are way more concerning.
Odd some snow flake didn't see the swastika at top, start to cry in his "safe space" and report this while coloring the big hammer and sickle in his commie coloring book.
Alt answer: Iron Cross and Swastika were both around before Nazism. But because Nazis were so evil, the symbols are tainted and should never be used, unless you’re a right-wing piece of shit.
I associate it with Germany in general, especially with the Prussian colors makes me think of the German Empire. I only associate it with Nazism if the swastika is displayed with it, which is more about the swastika than the cross.
Lemmy used to wear ones os it must be okay.
It wasn’t originally nazi, meant “good luck” but the nazi reversed it and it did become rather infamous
I find it cool looking. Didn't think of Nazis at all
Hitler didn't like the iron cross and replaced it so if anything the iron cross is anti nazi.
Sry, but that's wrong. You should check your sources.
@Neptunsheart so hitler didn't put the swastika everywhere. Rather than the iron cross.
Its similar to the 'balkenkreuz' its both originated from Prussia, who took the Teutonic Order cross to make that symbol I think.
Really , those type of symbols have been around many hundreds of years and mean different things. We as people need to look past the little things and work on the real problems.
Like you said they predate the Nazi regime, they still use it today do they not...
Hitler and the nazi's ruined a lot of things for a great many people
Its just a Maltese cross the Germans picked for a symbol..
Get over it!
It already happened,
You can't change it!
Actually it looks a lot like the templar cross, and i saw such symbol in the church before
It was a symbol of knighthood of sorts originally if I remember right
If it's so closely associated with the Nazis, why defend it? Just use something that doesn't prod at other people's sensitivities.
I will mention that this symbols belong to very old cultures and people. Should we (you) tell them to stop using them because you, associate them with Nazis and that offends you, should you go into their sacred ancient text and remove those symbols too, just because it reminds you of Nazis? And if they refuse should we (you) force them to comply with your wish?, Just so this doesn't hurt people's sensitivity?
I propose that instead we teach people and show them the real origin of this symbols all around the world (from the Anasazi tribes to the Hindus and the Tibetan monks) those are the real origins let's learn and free ourself from the bounds of oppression and ignorance they have bestowed upon us all. Let us responde from a position of knowledge for a change, instead of having a meager reaction from a point or opinion of ignorance, let us be smart, no let's be wise and don't allow those who separated us and got so many to kill each other to now try to destroy those millennial symbols of peace and love.
Now muddled out by some evil people from the past, I believe we are better than this, we all are.
“People’s sensitivities” that’s the problem with political correctness, it’s censorship. The only reason why they closely associate it with the Nazis is because they are too ignorant to understand that it has nothing to do with the Nazis.
Anything German is considered “Nazi” nowadays by the PC crowd.
It's cool. It's a cross.
They copied the iron cross from the Persians
Sumerians, and oddly enough some people consider them to be the ancestors of the Germans.
www.ancient-symbols.com/sumerian_symbols.html
I'm fine with it
Indifference
Don't care.
Not cool beans.
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