"Boys don't cry" "man up"?

[takenhousewife]

I watched a documentary called The Mask we live in and it was talking about how pop culture is apart of creating a toxic definition of masculinity. And I agree. How many times in your life have you been told man up? Or don't show your feelings sissy? I wanna know how does that make you feel, but also just to say that it's okay to have feelings as a man, doesn't make you less man.

[Barbaric]

I hate that documentary. It's complete bullshit. All part of the agenda to emasculate men.

The reason it pisses me off is because the reason men struggle so much today isn't because they're not allowed to show their feelings, it's because they're not taught to man up. In some cases actually that they shouldn't.

Everybody says the exact same things you're saying here, especially younger women. I understand that it's well-meaning so I'm not attacking you, but it's backwards.

When everybody else is saying the same thing that you are, that's the popular message. When saying something makes you seem like an asshole to most people, as what I'm about to say will, that's the unpopular message. You're not fighting pop-culture, you're parroting the things pop-culture tells you to.

You mentioned bullying in response to another person. I'll give you an example of precisely why I see all of this as bad, because this applies to any kind of struggle in life.

I have a half brother. Same Mum, different Dads. My Dad always taught me to defend myself. I'm only short like him, so it was inevitable that I was going to be a target of bullying in school. He knew it. He told me to never be intimidated by anybody, to always stand up for myself even physically if need be. That the one thing bullies hate/fear is somebody who fights back. That I shouldn't come back crying to him about being bullied. Back in his day, if he came home crying about being bullied, my grandparents would give him a slap too so he had to defend himself.

My younger brother was taught no such thing. He was taught to tell the teacher if anything happened. "Two wrongs don't make a right" and all that bollocks.

As a result, my parents never had to worry about me being bullied. Any little prick who tried would get a bloody nose and he wouldn't try it again. Meanwhile my brother would come home crying, afraid to go to school sometimes, with my parents having to go in to try to sort it out - which never happened. Not until I taught him to stand up for after himself myself.

These arguments are always about encouraging men to be weak and cowardly and to be okay with that, and they're always arguments against strength, self-reliance, courage.

Men aren't emotionless robots of course, we all have times of weakness, even the strongest of men, and in those times we should get support. In fact from what I've seen we do already, when guys are upset about something serious I've never seen or heard anybody say "stop showing your feelings sissy" - that doesn't even happen.

But that's not what this is about. It's people arguing that we shouldn't encourage men to be strong in the first place, that's something many people who speak about "toxic masculinity" say is a terrible thing to teach men. Fucking ridiculous if you ask me.

[takenhousewife]

It's alright to be prideful but it's a good life lesson to be mindful as well. It's only toxic when you feel like you have to do something against your morals out of fear of being outcasted.

[Barbaric]

I'm not sure how that relates to anything I just mentioned here?

[takenhousewife]

The reason man up also gets bad rep is due to that unhealthy people use it too justify abuse. Like saying harmful things or hitting to relive stress if you cry you be told your not a man and you need to man up... and that's what I'm not okay with. The feeling that you need to keep it in or your not a man. A man is a man regardless. Now it's up to the man to choice what type of man he wants to be. Respectable Or anything else. Just my opinion. I didn't really see the doc as encapsulating though what parts were like that too you?

[Barbaric]

Like I've said before, I don't think that happens as often as those people think it does at all. I think that there's a difference between crying over something worth crying about vs something not worth crying about. When men are told to stop crying it's usually the latter, not the former.

The reason men are and always have been taught this is to encourage mental strength as well as to deal with certain situations properly. In an effective way.

With the bullying example, I was told not to come crying about being bullied. Why did my Dad teach me that? Because crying doesn't stop bullying, nor does being afraid of standing up for yourself. Instead being brave and standing up for yourself does.

Now if it were a different situation, say the death of a loved one, that's completely different. That's dealing with grief. There's no other more effective solution. Men aren't told to man up at all in these cases, it's expected and completely understandable.

This is the way men naturally think. It's just that many have had this stamped out of them from the time they were children.

I honestly didn't watch it the whole way through because I've heard all of the arguments made in the doc so many times before, it's all very predictable.

[ADFSDF1996]

The real toxicity is from the “Social justice warrior” crowd that constantly shames masculinity by assuming traditional masculinity is “harmful”. Ironic that a movement who constantly preaches equal respect for all, tries to force men to act less masculine. It’s disgusting how this crowd likes to spout shenanigans of wanting to “help” men but in reality they want to subjugate men to the point men become second class citizens. I truly believe in equal respect for all people which is why I criticize this crowd for being hypocritical.

But I digress, there’s nothing unmanly of crying since everyone cries, it’s a natural human response to extreme emotions like euphoria or distress. The real problem when it comes to men crying is how regardless if he cries or not, he’ll get criticized.

[takenhousewife]

Yes I feel that no man should ever get criticised for displaying emotions but they do. The problem I find with popular culture is that it pushes this Persona of a macho man, who doesn't cry, who is buff and takes no shit. if someone questions your manhood you better put them in there place or your seen as weak. Then young boys feel the need to be this definition of a "man". And it's a lot to be told you can't be you be a "man" I believe a man is someone who respects other while having self respect, who isn't afraid too be open with loved ones and express how they feel when they want too with words instead of holding it in alone. That is just my opinion though.

[ADFSDF1996]

Thanks for most helpful opinion

[Metlahaed]

What annoys me more is the people who keep saying its ok to have emotions, its ok to cry, it doesn't make you less of a man, it's healthy, don't bottle things up all the time etc. I don't disagree with them. It is ok to cry, it is ok to have emotions. But guess what? I want to bottle things in, I don't want to talk about, feel, express my emotions with anyone other than myself, I want to be left alone and deal with things in my head on my own thank you very much. And there is nothing wrong with that. That being said, I know myself very well and I can process my emotions in healthy rational ways all on my own, I know many people are not capable of doing so, but I am not sure either option is going to ultimately be good for such people anyway.

[takenhousewife]

True but I just want to make it know for the men who want to share but feel like they can't, can and that's okay.

[Djaay]

This man- up term was originally a term created from evil women who wanted men of all ages to fall in the name of darkness in front of GOD. It was to parallel with masculinity as a paradigmatic existence that exalts the evil against the righteous. It was meant to exclude and separate a man and his sin from CHRIST and GOD to abolish any hope or faith. It's also a retaliation and protest from evil women towards GOD himself and those created in his image. Men and women are not any different emotionally from one another. Men are anointed by God to receive wisdom of solutions with spiritual guidance towards him and away from the darkness of sin and to be a warrior in spiritual warfare , hope and faith to otherwise lead the female. The only true time a man is a real true man is when he stands tall , strong faithfull as a warrior for and with GOD.

[Hahfjshs]

Probably 3 times in my life by my dad i rarely open up to anyone due to having 0 friends in school now that im in high school i would say i have like 5 friends but we rarely talk only in school maybe i text 2 of them but thats like 3x a week so its hard for me to talk to anyone in general last time i cried i belive was when Carrie Fisher died so like 4 years ago im very emotional but its hard to get it out when you have only your sister that listens to you even harder when you see her one week then she's off to hang out with her boyfriend for 2 months

[Anonymous]

The hilarity of that documentary is that they go on about toxic masculinity only allowing men to be angry and all this type of shit, but when you actually ask the guys they flat out tell you that the opposite is true. But then the documentary acts like it's proof of toxic masculinity. It's a retarded documentary.

I've never been told to man up. I think it would have been much better if I had a guy tell me that.

The only people ever to make me see a need to hide my emotions are women. Whether it's fair or not doesn't matter because it's just what they want. You're not going to be able to make women completely change what they're attracted to and start liking vulnerability in men.

Vulnerability and emotionality as a guy in the presence of women is highly conditional and volatile. Better to bury your feelings and focus on all the other things that get you points. Mete out small feelings slowly over time so she doesn't flip out.

[funride74]

One more if all this stupid things boys are thought over decades. Why not crying if it's necessary and just a good relief. I'm putting it to an extreme: boys who never cry won't be able to experience real love as well. Sad thing and totally wrong to keeping them from showing emotions

[takenhousewife]

Agreed when I have a child I don't wanna put them in a box and I want to gear them so when they are in school they don't get out into a box

[funride74]

Sounds very logical and wise

[KrakenAttackin]

The Mask we live in is a great documentary. Boys and men are constantly told to "man up" even if those exact words aren't used. Women are key villians in sending the signal to "man up" whether they know it or not.

[takenhousewife]

Agreed, growing up it was common knowledge that boys shouldn't cry. And it was the norm for me I never questioned it, now I see how damaging this can be and it hurts me knowing I have a younger brother (8) and he's being told that he shouldn't cry. So I watched the doc with him and he tolded me if he needs to talk about how he feels he'll come to me about it.

[takenhousewife]

*I don't don't know why the heart eyes.

[takenhousewife]

But i dont want my brother to feel that he only has me, he should be able to talk about it openly.

[KrakenAttackin]

I appreciate what you are trying to do for your brother, but what he needs is a strong positive male role model. Women cannot teach boys how to be men, which is the disaster that single-mothers are to boys.

[PrTafi]

They used to tell me when I was a little kid don't cry men don't cry, I believed it since I was a child at that time, now I don't believe in this theory, also there is many wrong theories about "how to be a real man and stuff". And I agree with you that's a toxic definition of masculinity

[Unknown_User7]

There is a time and place for being emotional and having to man up.

I haven't seen that doc. Did it say why men were told to "man up" and "don't cry "?

[takenhousewife]

They were getting picked on, in school and there dad's and other people told them to just man up

[takenhousewife]

To just take it and deal with it.

[Unknown_User7]

Hmm okay

[Cryptic-Game]

That's a bad view that people sadly hold.

[takenhousewife]

Agreed sometimes I wish I were a man so I could help in a way I can't as a woman. I find that men find it more meaningful if a guy says I respect you and ask about how your feeling then it does when a woman ask. But I still do my best to ask, I just get im fine.

[Proxyz123]

Crying is good. It brings out your emotions

[Joker_]

Men don't cry

[takenhousewife]

It's unhealthy

[Joker_]

It's healthy

[takenhousewife]

Would you judge another man if he was open about how he feels?

[takenhousewife]

Or would you tell him to "man up"?

[Joker_]

I would ignore his cries for help and continue torturing him

[Joker_]

Sorry I mean yeah I'd tell him to man up

[takenhousewife]

I'm sorry that you've been through that. I wish that you can be open about how you feel one day without fear of being criticized

[Joker_]

You're a really nice person. I sincerely mean that. Thank you for brightening my mood