I don’t think so. I think society has realized that saying man up or your a sissy, pussy, has hurt a lot of people and caused a lot of insecurity among a lot of men in the world.
There are no such things as Alphas and Betas in human social hierarchies. There aren't even alphas and betas in wolves. The reason you believe this is because of the research of a man called David Mech, you can google him. He spent twenty years trying to discredit his own research into the topic, because he realized he fucked up.
Spark Notes: He took wolves away from their pack, threw them in a cage and terrified them. The "Alphas" were the wolves who got violent toward the others. But that's not how they act in the wild. Wolves work together in the wild, and their social hierarchies are fluid. That's how they act when they're terrified, and they thought they would have to compete with a bunch of strangers for food. Basically, being an "alpha" is just putting on a tough-guy front when you're scared. That's true for wolves, and it's true for humans too.
There’s a dominance hierarchy but it’s situational. That said, those near the bottom/people who are bullied end up with lower serotonin levels which has real physiological effects.
So betas are kind of a thing, though most people use the term incorrectly to describe somewhat effeminate men.
There are though. Whenever someone wants to attempt to debunk the alpha vs beta thing they always bring up wolves because David Mech said that alpha male don't exist outside of captivity, but it's completely irrelevant.
There are alpha male lions right? In fact there are many other species that do have alpha males. That's why I say that bringing up wolves is irrelevant. Not only that, we're not closely related to wolves or lions.
The animal species which we're most closely related to are chimpanzees and bonobos - they do have alpha males. There are similarities between both of those species because they're very closely related, and there are some behavioural similarities between us and them too.
@Barbaric The reason I bring up David Mech, is because that's the pop culture version of "Alpha/Beta" that you're espousing. That's where people get that image that is constantly espoused, of a man who is an island and doesn't need anyone else, is aggressive when he needs to be, takes what he wants and is inherently at the top of the heap.
It's funny that you bring up bonobos though, because, yes, while they are our closest living relative, they're actually matriarchal and matrilineal. Chimpanzee alphas are more akin to human leadership rather than some intrinsic advantage, and chimpanzees can achieve "alpha status" through cunning, alliance-building, intimidation, brute-force or trade. Self-proclaimed human alpha males on the other hand really only respect physical advantages, intimidation and resource acquisition, which isn't even close to the same thing. They're never the brightest or friendliest guys around, and their entire concept of self-validation is based on how laid they get.
You’ve now taken the position that alphas both do and do not exist...
I think you’re confusing social dominance and physical dominance/tyranny. We don’t tend to accept bullies long as the next 2-3 males will form an alliance to take out the one bully. That said, social status determines your available alliances.
Dominance hierarchies go all the way down to lobsters and all other primates have one. For bonobos there’s a matriarch group and for chimps it’s a group of alpha males in a machevillian alliance. For gorillas it’s a father and sometimes a son as well who control the territory through physical displays/aggression.
The really important question is: if you feel like you’re alone at the bottom of the rung; what do you do?
I already knew that you'd say that bonobos are our closest relatives. That's your confirmation bias there. There are studies that show that they are... But there are also studies which show that we're more closely related to chimpanzees. Many others which show that we're equally related to both. You say that we're more closely related to bonobos so that you can say that alpha vs beta doesn't exist.
What's more, the differences between chimps and bonobos are heavily exaggerated, by people who wanted to do the same thing. There are only very slight differences between the two, and those differences only really have to do with the environment they're in. They like to pretend that bonobos are like peaceful hippies and chimps are like violent skinheads, but bonobos are violent too. They hunt other monkeys to eat and all that. They do use violence with each other too.
The mating behaviour is the same for both. Especially for the females. Chimps and bonobos go into heat. When they go into heat they tend to actively seek sex with alpha males over the beta males. And then they will have sex with beta males sometimes when not in heat, in exchange for resources and favours.
Human females do the same thing through their menstrual cycle, or at least have the same drive. Studies show that when they're ovulating they show a natural preference for typically masculine men with signs of high testosterone. But at other times in their cycle they prefer a softer man. When married, women with masculine husbands report higher sexual satisfaction during the ovulation phase, whereas those with less masculine husbands report the opposite. The birth control pill also, because it tricks their bodies into thinking that they're pregnant, makes those women choose less masculine men who are more soft and sensitive too.
So a couple points as there are a few misunderstandings here:
We are equally related to both, they split off from us when the Rift Valley was formed 5mya. Bonobos were split from chimps by the Congo River 3mya. Bonobos had the better area with less competition from other primates and socially evolved to be pretty chill.
They do however, have a dominance hierarchy too. It’s just based upon who the females let close to the core of the group. Dominance is about controlling space/having authority over it. In chimps 1-3 males are the alphas, in bonobos it’s the matriarchs.
One big reason being chimp females have to transfer between groups. Another big one is there’s more food and sexual opportunity on the bonobo end since they don’t only mate during estrus.
Regardless dominance hierarchies exist all the way down to crustacean, just because it’s not immediately obvious who the boss is doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
@thisismyopinion It's basically becoming a crime to be masculine due to the demonization of it from the Left/Feminists type of media like CNN or MSNBC.
When you hate an entire sex, in this case with men, you'll naturally be criticizing every "problem" with "them." It's similar to a hard Left or hard Right individual would do!
@thisismyopinion becaues it's promoting toxic feminine behavior in boys. They are fighting men acting like men, by saying it's ok to act like a woman, look like a woman. Both not okay
No boundaries , no backbones is what they want you men to have. They want to take your balls basically that's the War
This is why I'm counting on and promote the 10% who are actually men like you. and I agree with all you say it's horrible. They don't know how to be or what even being a man is I think
@thisismyopinion Men who are ALREADY masculine sure, but you have to look at it from a timeline POV. As those morons' voices got louder, more naive and ignorant people inevitably get involved, then spread their views, and as more and more people got involved, so did the media - then the politicians. In other words, the flow of information has been corrupted. It is similar to propaganda. Except it is ignorant forms of propaganda driven by misandry. Remember, your favorite movies, stars, politicians, businesses, etc are all in many ways slaves to the current fashion/trend.
@WowwGirl Thanks for being smart enough to see through all this BS.
@thisismyopinion Yes, but those men are a dying breed because in every type of war there is always collateral damage. The damage is apparent well within the courts, schools, societal bias, and many others.
Long story short, the Feminists and now the Leftist politicians that support them don't realize that this collateral damage is planting the seeds for the next male revolution such as MGTOW. I don't agree with MGTOW, but it was inevitable as one extreme movement in history always creates a polar opposite extreme movement ;p
That's the thing, nobody stops men from being men if they really want to. I don't think that's really what the problem is.
The problem as I see it is children/teen boys being influenced to act more and more like girls/women, at a time when they're easily influenced and don't know any better. A feminist named Christina Hoff Sommers actually wrote a great book titled "The War On Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men". She wrote a lot about how feminists basically became hostile towards natural male behaviours and began to push more and more to attempt to socialise boys to act more like girls as I said. Here's an old 20 minute video of her speaking about this to give you an idea:
Those boys once they grow up very often don't know how to act like men anymore, especially those without strong male role models in their lives of which there are many today. The smarter ones figure it out. Others do develop toxic behaviours and look to emulate the wrong role models e. g. by joining gangs. 80% of male prisoners are children of single mothers for that reason, as are most gang members/career criminals. Or they never get it, and they just struggle. You can see some of them in this comment section right now, and they're easy to notice if you've seen their other posts. They're the ones arguing that masculinity doesn't exist or something like that - because that's what they were taught growing up.
The point is that for many of them the damage is done by the time they reach adulthood, and this makes the guys who don't get it highly susceptible to the continued brainwashing even as adults.
@thisismyopinion you do live in a good country I'm sure, beautiful to my knowledge. Why do you think I brag on you so much for your beliefs? Becaues there's not guys like you hear except a few. I wasn't feeding your ego I meant the compliments I gave🙂 and thanks it's actually a bodysuit and a skirt.
@thisismyopinion I wish I could forget that dress I've tried to, but can't find a stunt double for it probably never will. It's really sad I lost it to the point it bothers me seeing it now.
Why do you say there is a war on masculinity? I am genuinely asking. I mean sure there are some people who go on about it being toxic but aren't those a small group of idiots that do nothing more besides bitch on social media? Why does anyone gives value to what they say? How can they stop a man from acting manly?
Not unless standing up for themselves no not really it's masculine. You know I don't fight men. I brought in a man to handle you when you decided to attack me. Both should stay in their own lane I think. I will never fight or attack men I'm a woman
I didn't have a weapon and you wouldn't even talk to my friend so that just means you are so weak you try fighting women becaues you fear fighting men. No men except broken me do that it's sad actually. You should be the last person alive talking about masculinity sir
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
61Opinion
I don’t think so. I think society has realized that saying man up or your a sissy, pussy, has hurt a lot of people and caused a lot of insecurity among a lot of men in the world.
I believe so. It won't affect me though. I'm firm in being a masculine man til death.
Yeah...
No but the definition is changing. New generation, new ideas. I’m sure the counterculture in the 60s went through the same questioning.
seeing how men are constantly encouraged to be cucks, I'd say yes. When is the society going to stop listening to broken women?
Toxic masculinity is just a way for feminists to politicise the term dickhead.
I mean technically yeah but it has very little steam, I'm not worried about it.
Only beta females want beta males. Sorry
They generally don’t either 🤣
It’s almost like people like their partner to have a spine...
There are no such things as Alphas and Betas in human social hierarchies. There aren't even alphas and betas in wolves. The reason you believe this is because of the research of a man called David Mech, you can google him. He spent twenty years trying to discredit his own research into the topic, because he realized he fucked up.
Spark Notes: He took wolves away from their pack, threw them in a cage and terrified them. The "Alphas" were the wolves who got violent toward the others. But that's not how they act in the wild. Wolves work together in the wild, and their social hierarchies are fluid. That's how they act when they're terrified, and they thought they would have to compete with a bunch of strangers for food. Basically, being an "alpha" is just putting on a tough-guy front when you're scared. That's true for wolves, and it's true for humans too.
There’s a dominance hierarchy but it’s situational. That said, those near the bottom/people who are bullied end up with lower serotonin levels which has real physiological effects.
So betas are kind of a thing, though most people use the term incorrectly to describe somewhat effeminate men.
@WhistleForTheChoir
There are though. Whenever someone wants to attempt to debunk the alpha vs beta thing they always bring up wolves because David Mech said that alpha male don't exist outside of captivity, but it's completely irrelevant.
There are alpha male lions right? In fact there are many other species that do have alpha males. That's why I say that bringing up wolves is irrelevant. Not only that, we're not closely related to wolves or lions.
The animal species which we're most closely related to are chimpanzees and bonobos - they do have alpha males. There are similarities between both of those species because they're very closely related, and there are some behavioural similarities between us and them too.
@Barbaric The reason I bring up David Mech, is because that's the pop culture version of "Alpha/Beta" that you're espousing. That's where people get that image that is constantly espoused, of a man who is an island and doesn't need anyone else, is aggressive when he needs to be, takes what he wants and is inherently at the top of the heap.
It's funny that you bring up bonobos though, because, yes, while they are our closest living relative, they're actually matriarchal and matrilineal. Chimpanzee alphas are more akin to human leadership rather than some intrinsic advantage, and chimpanzees can achieve "alpha status" through cunning, alliance-building, intimidation, brute-force or trade. Self-proclaimed human alpha males on the other hand really only respect physical advantages, intimidation and resource acquisition, which isn't even close to the same thing. They're never the brightest or friendliest guys around, and their entire concept of self-validation is based on how laid they get.
You’ve now taken the position that alphas both do and do not exist...
I think you’re confusing social dominance and physical dominance/tyranny. We don’t tend to accept bullies long as the next 2-3 males will form an alliance to take out the one bully. That said, social status determines your available alliances.
Dominance hierarchies go all the way down to lobsters and all other primates have one. For bonobos there’s a matriarch group and for chimps it’s a group of alpha males in a machevillian alliance. For gorillas it’s a father and sometimes a son as well who control the territory through physical displays/aggression.
The really important question is: if you feel like you’re alone at the bottom of the rung; what do you do?
@WhistleForTheChoir
I already knew that you'd say that bonobos are our closest relatives. That's your confirmation bias there. There are studies that show that they are... But there are also studies which show that we're more closely related to chimpanzees. Many others which show that we're equally related to both. You say that we're more closely related to bonobos so that you can say that alpha vs beta doesn't exist.
What's more, the differences between chimps and bonobos are heavily exaggerated, by people who wanted to do the same thing. There are only very slight differences between the two, and those differences only really have to do with the environment they're in. They like to pretend that bonobos are like peaceful hippies and chimps are like violent skinheads, but bonobos are violent too. They hunt other monkeys to eat and all that. They do use violence with each other too.
The mating behaviour is the same for both. Especially for the females. Chimps and bonobos go into heat. When they go into heat they tend to actively seek sex with alpha males over the beta males. And then they will have sex with beta males sometimes when not in heat, in exchange for resources and favours.
Human females do the same thing through their menstrual cycle, or at least have the same drive. Studies show that when they're ovulating they show a natural preference for typically masculine men with signs of high testosterone. But at other times in their cycle they prefer a softer man. When married, women with masculine husbands report higher sexual satisfaction during the ovulation phase, whereas those with less masculine husbands report the opposite. The birth control pill also, because it tricks their bodies into thinking that they're pregnant, makes those women choose less masculine men who are more soft and sensitive too.
That's all that alpha vs beta really means.
So a couple points as there are a few misunderstandings here:
We are equally related to both, they split off from us when the Rift Valley was formed 5mya. Bonobos were split from chimps by the Congo River 3mya. Bonobos had the better area with less competition from other primates and socially evolved to be pretty chill.
They do however, have a dominance hierarchy too. It’s just based upon who the females let close to the core of the group. Dominance is about controlling space/having authority over it. In chimps 1-3 males are the alphas, in bonobos it’s the matriarchs.
One big reason being chimp females have to transfer between groups. Another big one is there’s more food and sexual opportunity on the bonobo end since they don’t only mate during estrus.
Regardless dominance hierarchies exist all the way down to crustacean, just because it’s not immediately obvious who the boss is doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
Not directly. It's a media war against rationality, self preservation and common sense. Traits which are part of healthy masculinity.
Yes of course, you only notice that now? It is supported by the media for a reason.
i dont know but im gonna keep my masculinity, i dont give a shit how many girls try to encourage me to cry... i won't
don't have much masculinity so wouldn't know nor care enough to pay attention.
Yes and a war on every other traditional social norm.
Someone really needs to tell me why the hell do they think there is a war on masculinity!
@thisismyopinion It's basically becoming a crime to be masculine due to the demonization of it from the Left/Feminists type of media like CNN or MSNBC.
When you hate an entire sex, in this case with men, you'll naturally be criticizing every "problem" with "them." It's similar to a hard Left or hard Right individual would do!
@thisismyopinion becaues it's promoting toxic feminine behavior in boys. They are fighting men acting like men, by saying it's ok to act like a woman, look like a woman.
Both not okay
No boundaries , no backbones is what they want you men to have. They want to take your balls basically that's the War
@Inbox I don't believe that any masculine man would stop acting manly because of what a few idiots are saying on the news.
@WowwGirl they need to be taught to be strong.
This is why I'm counting on and promote the 10% who are actually men like you.
and I agree with all you say it's horrible. They don't know how to be or what even being a man is I think
@thisismyopinion Men who are ALREADY masculine sure, but you have to look at it from a timeline POV. As those morons' voices got louder, more naive and ignorant people inevitably get involved, then spread their views, and as more and more people got involved, so did the media - then the politicians. In other words, the flow of information has been corrupted. It is similar to propaganda. Except it is ignorant forms of propaganda driven by misandry. Remember, your favorite movies, stars, politicians, businesses, etc are all in many ways slaves to the current fashion/trend.
@WowwGirl Thanks for being smart enough to see through all this BS.
@Inbox I see. Well let the ignorant and the fools fall for it.
Good fathers and role models will always exist to show boys what a man is made out of.
@thisismyopinion Yes, but those men are a dying breed because in every type of war there is always collateral damage. The damage is apparent well within the courts, schools, societal bias, and many others.
Long story short, the Feminists and now the Leftist politicians that support them don't realize that this collateral damage is planting the seeds for the next male revolution such as MGTOW. I don't agree with MGTOW, but it was inevitable as one extreme movement in history always creates a polar opposite extreme movement ;p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpy8NMonHE0
@Inbox about 10% act like men actually dominant men
That's the thing, nobody stops men from being men if they really want to. I don't think that's really what the problem is.
The problem as I see it is children/teen boys being influenced to act more and more like girls/women, at a time when they're easily influenced and don't know any better. A feminist named Christina Hoff Sommers actually wrote a great book titled "The War On Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men". She wrote a lot about how feminists basically became hostile towards natural male behaviours and began to push more and more to attempt to socialise boys to act more like girls as I said. Here's an old 20 minute video of her speaking about this to give you an idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPgoyK_5KV0
Those boys once they grow up very often don't know how to act like men anymore, especially those without strong male role models in their lives of which there are many today. The smarter ones figure it out. Others do develop toxic behaviours and look to emulate the wrong role models e. g. by joining gangs. 80% of male prisoners are children of single mothers for that reason, as are most gang members/career criminals. Or they never get it, and they just struggle. You can see some of them in this comment section right now, and they're easy to notice if you've seen their other posts. They're the ones arguing that masculinity doesn't exist or something like that - because that's what they were taught growing up.
The point is that for many of them the damage is done by the time they reach adulthood, and this makes the guys who don't get it highly susceptible to the continued brainwashing even as adults.
@Inbox I promote masculinity big time and don't jack with weak men. I get called sexist a lot and it's ridiculous. And thanks for noticing
@Inbox I am thankful I don't live in the US.
That's not nice
@ThisIsMyOpinion
@WowwGirl I always felt like I lived in a good country.
I am sure the US has it's qualities and quality people. By the way I like that dress.
@WowwGirl Thanks for noticing what? And who calls you sexist for liking strong men?
@Inbox everyone here at one point except @thisismyopinion he was the only one who stood up for me.
@thisismyopinion you do live in a good country I'm sure, beautiful to my knowledge.
Why do you think I brag on you so much for your beliefs? Becaues there's not guys like you hear except a few. I wasn't feeding your ego I meant the compliments I gave🙂 and thanks it's actually a bodysuit and a skirt.
@WowwGirl I see.
Well it looked good on you.
I try
@thisismyopinion I wish I could forget that dress I've tried to, but can't find a stunt double for it probably never will. It's really sad I lost it to the point it bothers me seeing it now.
that's what many dating and self-improvement coaches say, have been for some years now.
Yes there is for sure
omg those guys on the beta male cover 😂
Only since about 1968 or so - - - - - -
There is a war on men. Women treat men like shit.
A real man wouldn't whine about it.
@WhistleForTheChoir Right, just bend over, cuck.
@msc545 LOL
I'm just saying, the "Defenders of Masculinity" are always throwing a temper tantrum about something.
@WhistleForTheChoir Stop whining like a little bitch
Your original comment: "Waaah! I'm a victim!"
Your 2nd comment: "You're gay!"
Your 3rd comment: "I know you are, but what am I?"
Not that I have seen.
Yes. People hate masculinity.
Why do you say there is a war on masculinity?
I am genuinely asking. I mean sure there are some people who go on about it being toxic but aren't those a small group of idiots that do nothing more besides bitch on social media? Why does anyone gives value to what they say? How can they stop a man from acting manly?
@Cryptic-Game
Masculinity isn't attacking females please remember. That's the opposite of a real man
Can women attack men and still be feminine?
Not unless standing up for themselves no not really it's masculine. You know I don't fight men. I brought in a man to handle you when you decided to attack me. Both should stay in their own lane I think. I will never fight or attack men I'm a woman
Sometimes a man might have to defend himself against a woman too, like if she has a weapon.
I didn't have a weapon and you wouldn't even talk to my friend so that just means you are so weak you try fighting women becaues you fear fighting men. No men except broken me do that it's sad actually. You should be the last person alive talking about masculinity sir
Thank you.
I am not aware of your friend and your friend cussed at me and hinted my mom should have aborted me.
Wanna meet him again?
Then leave me alone
He is mean. He said my mom should have aborted me.
@Cryptic-Game I tried to tell you... look what happened again.
Why won't you talk to him like you do me?
You hinted about hitting me in the face wtf do you think is going to happen?
I didn't say I'd hit you in the face.
I'm not arguing just leave me alone please
Leave me alone and he will leave you alone.
Done
Okay. Fine.
Thank you 🙏