Particularly with millennials and gen z they are more independent woman who want to be working woman and go for careers in science, maths, engineering, entrepreneurs or modeling and acting. And men or older woman has this view that woman have to be housewives or stay home and take care of the kids. Don’t get me wrong there’s nothing wrong it you want to be a housewife and have a traditional family, but not in newer generations that’s not what most woman want anymore and society has a bad view on that. They think independent, progressive, feminism, woman is a bad thing and that’s so stupid.
Why does society think of an independent woman as wrong?
Because they are nearly non existent. Almost no woman is independent. Your living off of a man in one way or another. You talk about engineering and things like that but who the hell cares about that? Who is producing the food that keeps you alive? Men. Who is creating the houses you live in so you can survive? Men. Who is digging out minerals and metals so you can have the thigns you have? Men. Who is digging up coal and drilling for oil so you can have modern technology? Men. Who is inventing these technologies? Almost entirely men. Your talking about a career that can only exist because so many others are doing the actual hard job, the one that slowly kills them, that is grueling and painful and dangerous so that you can sit on your ass at a school, so you can sit at a computer etc. etc. Your not independent, your entirely dependent on these people and if they were to stop doing what they do you would die.
On top of that all of these "independent" women, are not independent in their relationships either. They still expect the man to do all the things they are traditionaly expected to do i. e. provide for them and protect them. So your not even independent on a superficial level. So its not that people have a problem with independent women because there are none, they have a problem with women who claim to be independent because they are egotistical, take everything men provide them but then don't want to acknowledge the considerable contributions that men have made, instead opting to try and take the credit for the work men do as well.
@ThisIsMyOpinion an errant white knight appears (how predictable you are). First off, YES. You are dependent on others, the vast majority of humanity cannot exist without other people. You do have some who can, fewer who actually do, but they are rare. The difference is, women are not able to do the jobs that are actually necessary for survival (or are unwilling, take your pick). This is a statistical fact and no I'm not going to get into this with you because as per usual you will ignore everything because you think repeating the same thing over and over again is an argument and I'm not going to waste my time on that.
As for relationships, no it doesn't. 80% of women surveyd stated they wanted the man to pay for dates, 80% of US domestic spending is done by women (70% globally) but women only account for about 30% of total earnings i. e. they spend their money and also the mans money. Men spend four times as much on women during the holidays as women do for men on average. So is their one woman out their who bucks this trend? Absolutely. Is one persons actions reflective of 3.7billion people? No. thats why we use statistics as it gives a better account of general trends and reflects reality far better then the ancedotal evidence you try to use.
@hellionthesagereborn yes they can. They never had the need to, but that doesn't mean that they can't. I had women contractors working on some of the constructions that I directed and they did a good job.
I mean depends on the women because while some claim to be independent, some actually are.
About paying for the first date, that is just being a gentleman. I felt like a boss courting women like that.
So women spend more 20% than us? So what? You know their shit is way more expensive than ours. Have your ever walked around a store to get a gift for your girlfriend? Like Jesus!
And I would love to see how old those stats are. Today women make most of college graduates by far. But just like in the previous time that we talked I bet there is some information that you are leaving out. Like this considering only a very specific portion of the population or something.
@ThisIsMyOpinion Over 80% of all construction work is done by men, the more physical the job the more likely it is to be done by a man. 80% of mining is done by men, however if you actually look at jobs, 20% of managment i. e. paper pushers, are women meaning when it comes to the actual phsyical labor and dangerous jobs its done entirely by men. I'm not going to argue with you on this, this is an absolute fact women are not as strong as men they are not as resilient as men and they are pampered and cared for by men period. If you do not wish to see reality (as I have already presented ample evidence for my argument and you give me ancedotes and ad naseum arguments) that is on you. I'm done arguing with stupid.
@hellionthesagereborn I never said that the majority weren't men. I simply said that they can do it. As a civil engineer I know!
I don't agree with you in some topics, you label me a certain way and then you don't even pay attention to what I say. I thought girls were the ones that were supposed to be emotional.
Men are independent. Men have careers. So when we tell you that it's not all it's cracked up to be and you shouldn't throw away your youth chasing after it, you should listen to us.
Older people don't tell you this shit because they're big meanies for no reason and they just want to cramp your style. They've played this fucking game before and they've seen what happened to them and to every other young idiot who thought they were going to win, and they know the difference between hype and reality.
Not listening to men I can understand, because most girls are stupid and think men don't know anything or that they're always lying, or whatever. But at the very least you should listen to older women who've been in your position and already gone through what you're about to go through and who had the same bullshit pumped into their heads that you're having pumped into yours and wish they had listened to their mothers instead of believing in bullshit and finding out the hard way that real life is totally different than what TV and movies and magazines tell you it is.
Don't throw away something good that's real for something "better" that's fake. All a career is, is working hard to make somebody else rich, it's nothing to be proud of, it's nothing to sacrifice your youth and your happiness for, and it's certainly nothing to throw away a chance at true love for.
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It's just the sexism and tradition of gender roles/religion grasping to try to maintain control in all ways, even the ways they are failing to maintain. A lot of men have a hard time because traditionally they were used to women in a certain position, with a certain personality type as the expectation, etc. Now that this type of woman is celebrated and encouraged, they are struggling to figure out their masculinity in relation to that. Men are actually starting to fall behind in schooling as well, so it's an interesting time really.
But a lot of men DO like it!! :)
I think more common than what you have described is a phenomenon of men who think they are okay with intelligent, assertive, independent, opinionated, etc. but struggle with the reality of what interacting with women like that *feels like* for them, compared to what they may be accustomed to or just compared to women who are less assertive, not independent, passive, etc.
The latter will make some men feel more masculinity and they like that they feel extremely needed. They don't get the same feeling with those of us who fit well into the other category.
Because men are threatened by women starting to live the same lifestyle as them. Now that women have more freedom in The dating game, men can't easily choose when to settle down and with whom because that woman may no longer be an option. We don't wait anymore to be chosen. We dont need their money anymore for support, so they can't so easily buy love anymore.
and in order to Rob us of this freedom, they resort to petty methods like slut-shaming and fear tactics i. e. you are going to get old and no one will want you or all the good men will be taken.
darling, women will never live the same lifestyle that men do, because no woman can actually take that. Stop picturing what you see in the movies and start looking at how men actually live.
I don't know where you live and what kind of people you have around you, maybe you are an upper-middle class teen but in the rest of the society, life is completely different for men and women. Men do all the dangerous jobs and society expects a hundred times more from men, so don't tell me men and women live the same. But I don't blame you. You're still in high school and cannot see what goes on in the society.
@alwaysintosomething lol! I'm in my late 30s and I work a white collar job and I make more money than a lot of people. obviously we're different, but the dating field has become more equal than before because of independent women
You say we/I want to keep women dependent. Wrong answer. It's too easy for women to destroy men with any accusation and I don't want to keep women at all. I avoid women like the plague.
Who said anything about revenge? If it's anyone's revenge it will belong to God himself. Isaiah 4:1 In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”
Sorry but you live in these United States not Saudi Arabia. Basically you are saying an independent woman is a woman not in a relationship who is able to go to college, get a job to earn her own money and live in her own home or paying her own rent or mortgage, and above all paying her own way in the world. Even married women work usually after their youngest reaches school age, women have always worked, the 1950s housewife wasn't really a common thing. So independent woman basically means being an adult, earningand paying yourown way. Society actively encourages people to be adults and this has nothing to do with feminism.
I love independent minded women. I love their ability to do whatever the fuck they want.
But which society thinks it's wrong to be an independent woman? Some societies do. And segments of even the most progressive societies to. But society as a whole?
It was a slow march to women's liberation and independence. There was the right to vote, the right to get a job during WWII, changing fashions, the bikini, the pill, equal opportunity laws, even greater insistence on freedom from sexual harassment (#MeToo).
I think you make a mistake in thinking that millennials and gen z women are more independent than some previous generations. Girls in the 60s and 70s were rebels, breaking down the walls, challenging patriarchy and social norms. They were the first generation of women to go to college em mass and go on to become skilled workers n competition with men. It's true that some of those women went on to have kids, become helicopter parents, SUV driving soccer moms, and get sucked into the buttoned down world of competitive capitalism. But I predict that millennials and gen x-ers will do the same thing as they age and have kids. In some ways, freedom for women and people in general has been shrinking over the past few decades.
And while I totally celebrate the possibility of women doing that they want, I am also struck by the number of millennial and gen z guys who bitch and moan about independent women. I find that phenomenon fascinating.
Whereas I agree with you that the millennial women are more career women than women of previous generations. I disagree with you that there exist this notion that older generations are pro-housewife. Frankly, I read more comments from millennial men who are seeking the housewife and on top of that, that she be a virgin too. I date a lot more younger women who are those career women, ambitious and what not and connect with them far better than the part-time employed or housewife types. I do tend to meet more women in their early 30’s to 50’s who seems to desire simply getting married and being, “taken care of”. For me that too much resembles having a house pet. I am attracted to the complementary woman and not remotely to the “submissive pet”. In other words, an “adult”. Strangely this seems more often than not come in the form of 20 something women. Hell, I met this very alluring 27 year old deputy last night who has her own home, two horse, dogs, and a couple of SUV’s. We had a damn great time hanging out at my pal’s house where I met her. Hell, we even had a cigar together. Loved it! My gal pal who is a housewife looks at me and just says, “She’s totally your type.” She wasn’t referring to her age but her persona. My gal pal is 49. I have known her and her husband for 14 years. They know what I am drawn towards and they also know that it is a rare find.
No... I appreciate a woman who has their life in order. It’s adds to her sexiness. The millennial men who are equipped to complement these women are going to have the beat damn lives with these women. Good on them and good on those women.
It is finally nice to come home and know that there is some other already home or on her way who is actually willing to contribute to ‘our’ home and ‘our’ life rather than just being company I sleep with who even if not work never even lifts a finger around the house which they also occupy. I’m done with that...
Most career women reach their mid-30s and realize that their career hasn't fulfilled them, and they have no family to share their lives with. But by then, they believe that their independence and career success, which may have earned them nice clothes and a nice place to live, should also entitle them to an even higher status man - never stopping to consider that there are very, very few such men, and those few that exist don't care about her career or her apartment or her wine collection. Instead, if such a man is going to trade his freedom and risk his future with a relationship, he's only interested in women who are young, fertile, and happy to be a stay-at-home mom.
And since those women refuse to "date down", they end up alone with no family and their line doesn't continue.
Men can't get pregnant or give birth, so those are things that men highly value in women, but women have a window between 15-30 where they are at peak fertility. After 30, time starts getting very short, and their value to men - especially high-value men with lots of options, starts to diminish quickly.
Most women today don't figure this out until it is already too late to get those high value men they desire.
There’s such thing as multi tasking, a woman can have a successful career as well as have a social life and dating life. You talk about how those woman want a “high class man” well where do you think they meet these successful men? Probably at work at their high class job
That's not where those men look for girlfriends/wives, because they don't WANT a girlfriend/wife who is working a high-end job, because that woman doesn't have the things that he's looking for. This is what you clearly don't understand.
Most of my customers are wealthy people, and they live in homes in the $2M-20M range. Out of about 40 of those customers, I only know of 2 who have a wife who has a corporate-type job. Many have part-time jobs - one teaches yoga 10 hours a week, one sells real estate part-time, one is a decorator part time, etc. But they all focus on their kids, and keep their kids busy and focused and make sure they're doing well in school, etc.
Successful, high-value men, when looking for a girlfriend/wife, do so almost exclusively because they want a family - it's why upper-class people are almost all married and have kids - but for that reason, the traits that men look for in a woman is: does she want to be a mom to our kids? These men DO NOT VALUE her job or her degree, because he already makes money. He's looking for someone who can bring to the table things that he doesn't already have - and a career isn't it.
@Oram52 I'm an Audio/Video Integrator. I design and install TV/surround-sound systems and other audio/video setups (projectors/screens, etc.), do networking & WiFi, and security camera systems. This carries over into whole-home automation and integration with smart-home devices. For example, several of my customers with whole-home systems can use Alexa do voice-control much of the system.
An in-ceiling automated projector screen in a conference room, with 5.1 surround and feeds for TV, BluRay, and laptops for projecting presentations
Basement media room with 5.1 surround and 80" TV.
Loggia (outdoor living room) with 65" TV and 5.1 surround.
Equipment rack (that slides out on tracks to work on) at one customer's house (one with Alexa integration).
I think its good to be independent but i think most men hate that it turns you into that mindset of “i dont need a man.” I mean its okay to not need him as long as you still want him. But a lot of men feel their job is to provide and protect. If we provide and protect ourselves, then a lot of men feel lost like damn what can i do for you? I would say, you can still give me that dick. But then you have the women who feel their vibrator is better 🤦♀️ And a lot of dudes are like, well she’ll still need me for reproduction. But then u have sperm banks, invitro, artificial insem... so its like 🤷♀️
Actually i think it's the other way around, nowdays if you want to be a stay at home wife/partner, believe in gender roles, or that your men should provide for you you're seen as a neanderthal unevolved homos sapien shallow gold digger. The society didn't change that much from what it was in the old days, they still try to force people to fit in what they deem right and to be the norme (if they decide all women should stay at home wrapped in layers of clothes, be pretty, and shut their mouths that's what's going to the norm, and if they decide all women should work and pay for men, and have kyle Jenner's body to please them then that's going to be the norm).
Women are hypergamous, so they want a man with higher status. It's harder for career woman to date because they're at the top. So when these 30-year-old women "hit the wall" while progressing in their careers, the guys that they want are already married to younger, submissive women who want to be homemakers and raise kids. Career women are depressed as ever and most of them will die as cat ladies.
Your not wrong. I dont know many women who want to settle for a guy whos less successful than they are and the most successful guys pretty much have their pick of the ladies since most women want a successful guy.
You can be just as good as men but when your the best its not possible to date up so either you have to settle for not being the best or you have to settle for a less successful man.
If you have a great career then you can probably afford to have your man stay at home and raise your kids for you. But how many women would prefer to be a stay home parent to working in the top of their field pulling 60-80hrs/wk. If your that successful then im sure you can find a guy who can afford for you to stay home with the kids.
I would love a chance to be a stay home parent but a girl that makes enough money and wants to work full time while letting someone else raise their kids is hard to find so its just a fantasy for me.
@ThisIsMyOpinion No, it is a woman thing. It's biology that women find a man with higher status (money, career, etc.) because that ensures that her children and herself can be accounted for and protected. The man is the protector. Explain how come in dating apps, women who are like a 4 or 6 go for the guys that are 10s. Girls have fewer options while guys have more options, but that doesn't mean the girls would pick them.
This "Women are hypergamous, so they want a man with higher status. It's harder for career woman to date because they're at the top. So when these 30-year-old women "hit the wall" while progressing in their careers, the guys that they want are already married to younger, submissive women who want to be homemakers and raise kids. Career women are depressed as ever and most of them will die as cat ladies."
You lost me at the girls have fewer options bit. Uglee people have fewer options accross the board. Girls have plenty of options until they go and become the best in their field making 100k and need to find a man making 200k to feel like their not settling.
Guys are the ones supposed to line up for a chance with the girls while the girls are the ones who choose from all the guys. You see that in birds too, the guys have bright colors to show that they are healthy and can provide while performing elaborate dances, songs, and rituals to convince his desired partner that he's better than the rest and fit to have her babies. Meanwhile the lady is just a lame brown color usefully for staying hidden out of sight but she doesn't have to attract anyone since she has the choice of any male not yet taken by another.
@imthatsteve I meant that girls have higher standards nowadays so that's why to them, they have fewer options, while to men they have a lot of options, but once they reach the age where getting pregnant is hard, they'll choose that guy they rejected. Yes, that's true, courting is a guy's thing.
The guy has to prove himself to the girl. To continue with the bird analogy its like the girls are used to the guys being 2x as beautiful as them so they always try to get a guy at least twice as beautiful as themselves. But then the girls figured out they dont need the guys and can make themselves as beautiful as the most beautiful guys. But instead of looking for a guy as beautiful as them they are still looking for a guy 2x their own beauty. But then you also have the bit centurion pointed out, most girls are attracted to slightly older men and if you postponed settling down and getting married to focus on a career then most guys your interested in will already be married especially since they dont care as much about the success of their partners.
So women are welcomed to focus on their careers and be independant and all that but they need to change their expectations. If your going to take on the role of men then you also need to date like men and look for someone making less money or not as desireable to other women. Part of this is because men care more about youth and beauty for the same reason women care about success. Beauty is a display of health and women have a limited period of their lives when they are fertile and thus their reproductive value is directly tied to their youth.
@imthatsteve I like that analogy. Yeah, exactly, if they choose to be like men, they should definitely focus on looks instead of status. But, again, that goes against biology, and those relationships don't last, the woman is frustrated. And the brown bird (camouflaging) is the female and male is very colourful, because the male's job is to spread his seeds and until he dies, it doesn't matter, the females can raise the next generation. But there are monogamous species for life out there like hornbills, swans, penguins, and pretty much look the same.
@imthatsteve And yeah, girls are putting on a fake image of filters, makeup, plastic surgery, Spanx, once she takes all of that off, she's very plain, I think technology has definitely promoted a false sense of ego for women and the rude awakening will come when her looks diminished. Our ancestors weren't that picky and they didn't have people to compare to, even men are guilty of this, unrealistic porn standards for women.
I do watch a lot of porn but i mostly watch self shot amateur porn and softcore photo shoots because i can't stand fake girls, fake moaning, fake orgasms, fake enthusiasm, fake tits, fake ass, fake lips, fake face, its disgusting and i can't believe any guys are into that.
Like i really believe the only guys into that are closet gays and virgins/little boys who dont realise how fake and nasty that is. Melondream is a great app for android that makes softcore porn far more accessible. Other than that i spend a lot of time on reddit gonewild and other niche amateur subs. If i do watch real porn then im very very picky about it. Ill spend 2-3 hours looking for a decent 1 hour video and then ill come back to the same few clips over and over.
@modelun242 if we were just moved by our biology we would still be living in caves. We are the most mentally evolved being on this planet. Those are the things that gold diggers search for in a man. Specially today when even guys don't want a girl that has no job or decent degree.
@ThisIsMyOpinion How we got out of caves was due to evolution, opportunity, human migration actually. Just because we're civilized doesn't mean we should ignore biology. Ignoring biology has caused disasters caused by feminism, "the wage gap", #metoo, false allegations, gynocentrism. Most women want a man with higher status, that's not a gold digger thing, this is because her offspring will be protected and will be well taken care of. Basically, women want a man they can look up and respect, this cannot work the other way around. For a long time, this equation has worked, woman was the homemaker and man worked. And guys who are with an "alpha" woman don't have successful marriages, I think the mom should be with the kids and looking after them, not the system. That's why kids since the 60s are screwed up, more spoiled and entitled than ever. Divorce is rampant because of feminism and the sexual revolution.
@modelun242 Exactly we evolved. And we keep doing it as a society also. That is why women don't need a man to provide for them amumorr. You still need us, but not for survival anymore. That is good. How the hell ignoring biology caused that? People with way to many time on their hands and a victim mentally did that. I am sure that all women want someone that can provide for the house and is not a lazy blob on the couch. But on your logic all women would leave their current partners as soon as a millionaire showed interest in them. Again only gold diggers do that. You actually believed that women were happier on those days? When the man blasting them across the face and not caring about their pleasure or happiness was normal?
@ThisIsMyOpinion Men don't want to get married anymore because of how entitled women have been, fine, if women don't need men, we could just bring in a family with religious values from the Middle East and they can replace the declining birth rate. Is that what you want? And the abusive husband is an exception to the system, but the system is good, there were just a few bad people who ruined it for everyone else. Career women are depressed as ever because they have to take on more responsibility, and yeah, more money = more happiness? These career women don't even spend their income effectively. Having kids and a family is worth it in the long-run. It sounds like you don't care for the long run for society, you just want to take advantage of the sexual revolution which made women more vulnerable and sexualized than ever, which caused men to not take responsibility anymore, deadbeat dads. The single mom and absent fathers are breeding criminals and confused kids. I believe that a strong father figure is the breadwinner, not the other way around. And that's unrealistic, why would a millionaire show interest in a low-tier woman already married, millionaires have better options out there, like a submissive virgin girl much younger than that married woman.
@ThisIsMyOpinion And women are not that stupid, they just don't go off to the next man who's richer than their husband, I'm talking about when they pick their life-long partner, you just twisted that. Again, happiness can't be measured, it's subjective. I can tell you that society went along smoothly and they didn't have problems like now. Women sacrificed her time for the children and men sacrificed his efforts to work, both sacrificed, there's no "oh this person is not happy", but genders had their part. This putting women to work is something the establishment want, to put more money in their pockets, bigger labour force. When women are in their 30s and their fertility is low, she would settle for anyone like those guys she rejected in college. You're saying we should ignore biology, hello, a woman's peak fertility is in her 20s.
@modelun242 Men don't want to marry anymore? I married last year and it was hard to find a place that wasn't booked for the day I wanted xD I don't think are that entitled today. You girls need us for more than money and protection and always will. What is wrong with women being free sexually? That doesn't stop them from building a good family when they find the guy they want. In my close group of male friends we all have girls how have a degree. Every single one. We all have women who have their own jobs. We like that. At the end of the day, when we get home we still have them at home with us. Virgins girls are so boring! Can't even suck it right. But I wasn't talking about a married woman. Even one just in a relationship, yet to be married, won't leave her partner for a millionaire unless she is a gold digger. Wait wait! So to you, as long as everyone plays their part, doesn't matter if they are happy or not? Are you serious? Women work now not because the state wanted. They had to because women were not backing down from it.
Society as a whole doesn’t think being an independent woman is wrong. Apparently, you feel the need to strut about your stuff though and project to us all that you are independent. Tell me, if everyone sent you their permission, approval and wished you luck, would you just go and do it rather than talking about it and shoving it in everyone’s face. Usually the talkers are not the doers but rather looking for attention. You will never hear much from real independent women because they are off doing it instead of talking about it.
I just don't see it. Women have been able to pursue education and careers at the same pace as men since I was a teen in the 80's. In fact, I read recently that females make up more than 50% of college graduates today.
I see see feminism (the movement) floudering because they are now an organization that makes people money, yet their mission is mostly accomplished, so the only way they can continue and stay at their current membership levels is to create false-flag drama in the media and continue to blast arguments of inequality in the public's faces nonstop.
Sure, some people are still oldschool idiots and spout the old nonsense, just like racists, but they are in the minority, sitting way in the upper decks, and largely ignored, except by those who wish to continue the fight... and for what?
Asker: What inequality do you still see and would like to have addressed?
Well I reckon it's because this idea has been drilled into all of our minds for thousands of years. And even then it would've been much worse a couple hundred years ago than now, where women were just outright property and were to "be seen, not heard".
If the above was the status quo for many centuries or possibly millennia and then in the span of maybe a decade or two, women decide that they're not going to want to be submissive to men, then I think that some people are going to react in a negative way to this.
Well, a lot of the people have lived their whole lives on traditional and orthodox rules. People in modern generation are more forward thinking, they are also risk takers, while older generation's are more reserved and have many bad experiences with risk taking. Most people are worried that when women become independent, the amount of danger for them also increases, But many have become comfortable with their old traditions and don't want to change it, thinking that if these rules are changed then their comfort will also go. This mostly seen in men, because most traditional rules favor men and hence they turn arrogant. That's why when women become independent, men feel that their authority is questioned.
As an independent woman I have never had any biases towards me for that and have actually been praised for it! As an independent single mum I’ve had about 1 or 2 comments about how I don’t do what’s best for my kids as my main job should be finding them a replacement father and that is all. I really don’t see this as an issue. Then again as an independent single woman I don’t care what other people think! That’s one of the reasons why I’m independent
Outdated traditions are fortunately no longer relevant in our timeline. It's been time to liberate women from boxing them in to the roles they've been forced to do.
And so this can be seen as being a deviant. And deviants are not popular. Homosexuals were also considered to be deviants. If you ask me being a deviant is going the right direction in spite of all the obstacles, criticism, hate and judgments.
What that means for independent women? I suppose some guys hate the idea, that women are not forced to be chained to them in all ways - especially financially. Insecure to the point, where they NEED to dominate, command, dictate, control, whatever a woman (by stripping women from their rights) because they either find no other way to be effective or they dislike women.
Just like there's a difference between guys who are nice and "nice guys" there's a difference between a woman being independent and a "strong independent woman". The perception is that some women are constantly trying to prove to men how "independent" she is and that she doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks. But it just comes off as try-hard. Just like the "nice guys" who try way too hard to show how "nice" they are. I don't see anyone complaining about women who genuinely work on being independent and establishing themselves in a career track. I only see people start to take issue when a guy is minding his own business and the woman out of nowhere is like "I'm too independent for you to handle, you fragile man baby!"
I’ve actually talked to a bunch of older women who are jealous that I have more opportunity to be independent. These same women I’ve talked to also regret the way they raised their sons. Because now their sons have no practical home skills and depend solely on the woman to do all the cooking and cleaning.
It’s up to the younger generations to raised their kids to have those practical skills AND to be successful, male or female.
Independence is a good thing but can, like all positive personality traits, become toxic and a negative influence on the people around them if taken to the extreme. I also think it's really unhealthy for society to place a cultural expectation on people to be independent to the ridiculous degrees we currently see. We're herd animals, we're not supposed to be able to handle everything ourselves, and anyone who tries to claim otherwise is just fooling themselves. We need other people, we need their support and we need to be able to ask for help, something our current culture doesn't allow us to do, because you're supposed to be able to do things without relying on anyone else. So if you can't (which WILL be the case), you'll start seeing yourself as a failure.
While I agree we are social animals, I think op was refering to women being as independent as men have been historically. Nobody wants to be truly independent, but at the same time there is a lot of cultural push to go out on your own and make a life for yourself. Just in the past, it has mostly been the guys who go and find a fruitful career while women support him.
If this was something new, I'd have a different opinion, but this issue has been around for probably as long as the human race existed. Women always seem to be struggling with the need to assert their independence. Each generation seems to think this is something new. I've seen it my whole life.
My personal opinion is that men and women are designed physiologically and mentally for different roles by nature and that this constant struggle to fight the tendency to view them in the natural roles they were designed for is something that has been with society forever and probably will be so forever. In the year 5050, women will still be feeling like they want to be independent and generation z98266 will think it's the first generation to feel that way. It's nature against social pressure.
Utter rubbish, of course. Let me guess; you get this idea of the world from movies and TV, don't you? You see all these glamorous women, fawned over by beta males, and think that's reality. Well, it's not.
Reality is two working adult households, Mom's a teacher or hourly worker in a safe environment, Dad's in construction or some other dangerous, dirty, and/or exhausting field that still pays well. They're living paycheck to paycheck, and MAYBE setting aside a few bucks now and then for emergencies. THey have a mountain of debt, mortgages and school loans, and their savings have vanished because the corona virus put one or both of them out of work.
Raising kids is not only the mother's job. The dad has an equal responsibility too. A working woman is just as capable of raising a family. If I have daughters, i plan on raising them to become independent women.
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