Should people be fired for refusing to use transgender pronouns? This isn’t a teacher who mistakenly used the wrong one…he’s actively preaching his religious opinion against it.“I’m a teacher but I serve God first and I will not affirm that a biological boy can be a girl and vice versa because it’s against my religion. It’s lying to a child, it’s abuse to a child, and it’s sinning against our God.”
Yes, he deserves it.
No, it’s wrong.
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I’d be fine the teacher just said “I’m uncomfortable with trans prounons, but maybe in time.”
Well, thats a catch 22. You say he is pushing his religious beliefs on others by not altering his behavior to fit their desires, now I'll give you that one (I would disagree but fine). However if that is something that deserves to be punished then the school pushing their religious beliefs on him (which is what leftism is, it is effectively an religious belief structure), pushing their ideological beliefs, should also be punished in an equivalent capacity for doing the exact same thing. So who wins? All parties are doing the exact same thing if we go along with that reasoning and thus all parties are wrong thus negating the initial punishment to begin with as its a reaction, a refusal to let others push their ideological beliefs on him, and thus wouldn't have occured except for the fact that the school broke its own rules first.
So no, he does not deserve to be fired for this unless you also fire every single teacher, every single board member and faculty member who also did the EXACT same thing.
It’s so fucking funny that you guys are going mental over trans people making up words for pronouns. Another example of the right’s accusations always being a confession of guilt It’s astounding... You did it in your own post (leftism) made up word by the right to push their agenda, but there’s also scientism that the right some how thinks is a real thing, and more recently “alternative facts,” you guys are clowns...
P. S I think the made up pronouns are stupid too but if a biological man wants to called she then no problem, if someone wants to be called xe or xer, I’ll just call them by their name instead, no one is hurt, no issues are made. But I guess the right is OFFENDED (oh shit, another thing the right blames the left of but it’s actually them getting their panties in a bunch) and can’t just call someone by their name without thinking it’s the end days.
@Archerer Who is going mental? I stated its a catch 22 because it is as they are punishing him for what they are doing. Thats not going "mental", that is a statement of fact, an objective one at that. As for confessions of guilt, how so? What guilt? I think your projecting honestly. I as an individual have no issue with using a gender pronoun for a person (he or she, I'm not going to play that game of 72 pronouns crap because transgenderism is binary and its insulting to transgender people to refer to them as some third entity or non entity when they identify as either male or female) if they are earnest about it, but I do have an issue with people pushing their ideological beliefs on others especially while bitching and whining that others are forcing their beliefs on them. I don't like hypocrisy and inconsistent reasoning with people because its just a sign of a person who is self centered and is just trying to control others. I hate authoritarians. As for leftism, that isn't made up, your not a liberal because nothing about the lefts ideological beliefs are liberal, they are authoritarian by nature which would make them the antithesis of liberal. Its also groups who are not entirely in line with democrats so that is not a alternative either ergo leftist.
As for pushing agenda's, your literally pushing your agenda while complaining that some one is not following your agenda to the point where you are endorsing them losing their job for not saying the words you demand they say. You are literally pushing an agenda, my argument was not about agenda, it was pointing out that the argument itself was illogical as both groups did the exact same thing ergo one cannot claim to be above the other.
As for being offended, I'm not offended by some one using gender pronounes, I am offended that authoritarians would force every one to obey the rules they themselves do not follow, again, I despise authoritarians and hypocrits (and all authoritarians are hypocrits). You apply rules to others you will never follow, claim that your "liberal" but then take others liberty away, claim others are oppressing as you yourself advocate for others to be oppressed. I'm saying neither group has any jurisidiction here, that people should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit. I advocate for freedom for all people, you advocate for the subjugation of all people but those who believe everything you do. The sad part here is that you are so indoctrinated that you fancy yourself the good guy when in fact your the villain, your the one calling for oppression while believing your morally superior and that is what makes this whole situation so dangerous and disturbing.
If you read my comments you'd know I am also against a million different pronouns too. At that point, I would just use their name. A pronoun is a placement holder for names anyway. Instead of saying He went to the bathroom, I'd say *insert name here* went to the bathroom. Problem solved. No need to get ballistic. I've never seen you write so much on a moot point lmao. Clearly you are very offended by this. Talk about projection. You are projecting, not me. I support LGBTQ, I've lived with trans people and my sister is a lesbian. What could I possibly be projecting? Do you know what projection even is?
@Archerer That isn't relevant to what I stated. You want some one punished for not using pronouns, that is apparent by the fact that this was literally my argument and you are against what I stated meaning the only other option is that you believe its okay for a public school to force private ideological beliefs on the faculty and people in general. Otherwise, why would you have argued against my statement and ignored everything I have stated?
If you have never seen me right so much then you haven't seen anything I have posted, this is normal for me, though I have tried to be a bit more concise I still write quite a bit.
Of course I know what projection is. What your projecting is that you have a black and white view of things, that is you are right and every one else who doesn't agree with you is not just wrong but innately immoral. That is what you are projecting,, you are claiming I am going "mental" even though nothing I stated was particularly outlandish or aggressive, I simply stated that by the reasoning presented the school district is doing exactly what they state the teacher is doing. Your the one getting upset that others are questioning your ideology. You then say that I'm projecting . . . something, for using the term leftist but again, your upset because you are in fact a leftist (I just pointed out why the other terms are not accurate). You claimed the right is trying to push their agenda, but again, I didn't say this guy was correct or wrong, I stated that both parties are doing the exact same thing so what is done to one must be done to another, your the one pushing your agenda and trying to bully and guilt people into doing what YOU think they should do. So that is how your projecting, everything you are saying I am doing, you are actually doing. hence me saying you are projecting.
Let's go back to the beginning of how this is even a real issue.
When do you ever address anyone by a "pronoun"? How would this even come up in real life? "Refuse to address by their pronoun"? what?
If you name is Joe... I refer to you as Joe. I don't refer to you as it... he... she... them... etc. Maybe if you are not physically present I may say..."he isn't here today"... but if you are physically present I say Joe or "you"..."would you come here please?", "how are you Joe?".
How would anyone EVER need to be called a pronoun and how would this EVER come up.
This is first world freaks just dying to find some idiotic, meaningless CRAP to try and be offended about and begging to somehow become some victim.
@WowwGirl I don't know if that was supposed to answer my question... it did not. I call people by their names. I never, to their face call anyone "he", "she", "it", "X" or anything else.
Your name is WowwGirl... I call you WowwGirl. I do not call you anything else when you are present... other than maybe "you". "Would you hand me that pen please?".
This insanity of people demanding 15 options of pronouns... this is all moot. No one is called a pronoun in direct company. Pronouns are used when you aren't even around.
"Oh, she's the one who sits in this chair... but she is out today." "She normally works 9 to 5"
If pronouns aren't really used directly to a person's face... how is this relevant in any way? How can anyone be offended by someone "USING THE WRONG PRONOUN"?
They can't. This is just assholes bitching and complaining and making up crap to be upset about.
Using someone's pronouns is basic respect. It's okay if you get them wrong occasionally but purposefully misgendering them to make them uncomfortable should be frowned upon in a formal place. It's like looking at a dude and calling him Girly or Ma'am and saying she/her every time you see him. It's plainly disrespectful and everyone in their work should be treated respectfully
Beyond that we know nothing about each other than what we introduced ourselves as. No ID no nothing. That's perfectly normal. If either of us call each other some random bullshit, that would not be appropriate. At the same time we wouldn't preform a prostate exam on each other to call out a lier. How does that make sense?
So if you meet a transgender individual that has introduced themselves by their identity you should respect that in the same way i treated you and how i expect you to treat me. It's really that simple.
Whether or not it is 'wrong' with regard to the status of the teachers employment or not is dependant on the terms of the contract.
Assuming that that there is a requirement for the teacher to respect the self identity of the student then they are in breach of contract and could / should therefore be fired.
Language is a tool and it is constantly evolving, clearly there are problems with he and she so I would suggest that the now archaic 'thee' be repurposed to refer to a non binary or another term be used in addition to or in replacement of the exisiting he she terms.
until human sexuality is taught in schools introducing the pronouns these freaks want to use it should not be necessary. as a teacher she should've done it. as a christian that accepts everyone she should've done it. i can't see any scenario being totally okay. it's no ones fault
In a way, you've GOT him!!! His beliefs are that there IS a god!! Yours are that you're the gender you "claim" to be. (Sorry, can't think of the correct word/term.) He CAN'T prove that there's a god!! If you're post-op, you CAN prove that you're who YOU are, now!
Well it’s kinda rude to not use their proper pronouns. Just to think that you could make someone’s day just by using the correct pronoun. It doesn’t bother me so I don’t see how it bothers anyone else. Just try to be nice to one another.
Is it rude to tell some one they are not allowed to work or feed themselves and their families unless they obey your wishes? You can say he is being rude (even though he explained his reasoning for it (and it had nothing to do with disrespecting people (most people are not cartoon villaines who are willing to lose everything just so they can be an asshole), but forcing him to do what you want or lose everything is even more rude.
@hellionthesagereborn “Is it rude to tell some one they are not allowed to work or feed themselves and their families unless they obey your wishes?“ Literally what a job is lmao
@joeldalton you’ll just continue to call them what you thought as your best guess? What if they were actually a woman and born a woman but you called them a “he” because she looks like man, and she says I’m a woman... you just continue in your deliberate ignorance? Well that says a whole lot about you...
@joeldalton Well lets recap, the guy who claims opinions don't matter and facts are facts, makes his best guess, or opinion, on a woman who looks like man and calls her a "he", then when told his opinion is wrong, he gets offended by that and doubles down on his own ignorance and stupidity by ostracizing himself and just being a general asshole and unlikable person by refusing to change his poorly formed opinion... This is a great example of how most of the right works generally speaking :')
@Archerer lol, you’re the one offended. I’m not. And you live in a country that’s still locked down and made it “illegal” to miss gender someone. So I’m really not concerned about your opinion on things.
@Archerer Yes but this is a public school that is pushing a private ideological belief that is not held by the public ergo it is a defacto religious group telling some one to obey their religious dogma. That is no different then the school firing a teacher who refused to push a religious agenda. Thats the issue here (and you know that). Its hypocritical. If we don't tolerate one ideological dogma to be pushed why would we allow another? Its a public school, this is not the place for any of this crap.
@hellionthesagereborn The only religious Dogma in this situation is the piece of shit Christian Teacher, who isn't even Christian, because Jesus taught to not judge. So your point is moot. As usual.
If we get to actually choose pronouns I would unironically choose various forms of rotary aircraft as pronouns. However, most people I doubt would use these as most people aren't retarded just like most people aren't going to use trans pronouns.
It's not just Christian opinion and belief... It's Biological Science. We must take a STAND for what's TRUE and RIGHT. Pronouns must NOT be allowed to be scrambled and misused.
Well the thing is, pronouns are language and not actually science. Pronouns stand in place for a noun and a noun is a word that names something, such as a person, place, thing, or idea... so by your own standard you should be ok with using someone’s preferred pronouns as it is an idea a person has about them selves, thus not breaking any language or science rules. But I have a feeling that’s not really what you care about now is it?
@Archerer Biological Science refers to people being either male of female, and proper pronouns go right along with that IN SUPPORT of a person's sex/gender
@Archerer I'm not talking about "gender-identity" nonsense that a confused or mentally ill person might be claiming. I'm talking about ACTUAL sex/gender, and the REAL pronouns that should be used.
Well I’m not arguing that a transwoman is biologically female, they are biologically men. I’m arguing that gender identity is an idea and pronouns a function of language. Therefore negating the scientific purpose. Since when did you need to do fucking science to address someone by their name? Stop being a baby bitch and just respect the simple request to call someone by their names Jesus fucking Christ
Keep leftist propaganda out of schools too. Love how the left blames religion for indoctrinating people and forcing its will on people then turns around and does the exact same thing.
@hellionthesagereborn why’s it such a big deal? If a kids name was Jeffery but he says calls me Jay, no teacher would ever have a problem with that. All they have to do is call the kid by their name and problem solved like Jesus Christ. It’s not a teachers job to solve their kids gender identity issues, just call the kid by their name and get over it.
Because as the teacher stated, it is not reality. They are not the gender they claim to be and he feels that this behavior is highly detrimental to those children as many of them will eventually detransition, usually with permanent damage done to their bodies, all because so many people are pushing this on them and not giving them a realistic view of what is happening. Statistically, that is an accurate statement. YOU can believe that its wrong, but that has nothing to do with this because ultimately this is a public school dictating speech which is illegal (freedom of speech applies in all public buildings), its also dictating ideology. So if your against christians forcing kids to pray in a public school and forcing christian beliefs on children, then the only logicaly consistent thing to do is to be against pushing this ideological belief on others in the school system because it is no different just because it happens to be one you agree with.
As for the teachers job, sure, its not the teachers job to deal with that, its also not the schools job to be punishing people for not obeying a certain ideological belief. Imagine if public schools where pushing conservative policies and opinions on their faculty and students, would you support that? No, and you shouldn't but by that reasoning neither should you support them stepping outside of their jurisdiction and pushing left ideological beliefs.
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