Yeah, just stop going after the kids. Let them decide once they're an adult and their brain is fully there. Also separate unisex bathrooms, and laws stating you can only go into the biological bathroom of your choice *after* you transition would be much appreciated
I can only speak to the LGBT thing here as a lesbian, but at no point did anyone come for me to make me like women just like nobody came for you to possibly make you straight (assuming you are). That is just something you know. Trying to force someone into a role they are not for the mindsake of a random strange just seems cruel to me.
Neither of my kids have shown signs of being transgender, but even if they did, I'd still let them explore their gender expression because it is nobody else's business.
Where I think the line needs to sort of be looked at is hormone therapy prior to being of age of consent. I have no problem with blockers being used to delay puberty until they are of age to make their decision legally.
As for the bathroom thing, where do you consider "after transition"? Are you saying after they have surgery? Not a lot of then can afford it or may even want it. Are you saying socially transition? Ok yeah, I'd be more down for that.
@Ez-Bri-Z see the problem is that's where I disagree with you. It's not cruel to denial kids hormone blockers and I am not forcing them into any role by doing so. It's a simple matter of keeping them safe until they are at the mental capacity to make the right decisions for themselves. You wouldn't let 5 year old get permanent life altering surgery to become a fairy or barbie just because one day they said they want it - in my eyes that's horrible parenting. It's not wrong for a kid to be transgender, not at all. But it's very wrong for a parent to take a kids word at face value and then make permanent decisions for them based on (what I believe) they want for the child instead of what the child actually wants for themselves.
If transgender parents really cared for their children, then to me, they would wait until their kids are adults with fully functional brains before jumping the gun to operate on their own children.
Hormone blockers isn't permanent and thats the point. All it does is stop puberty until you are ready for it to happen. So if they are still set on transitioning they end up having a puberty very similar to their desired gender. If they decide to detransition then they just have a normal cisgender puberty for their assigned gender at birth.
@Ez-Bri-Z and if they can't afford it then thats what the unisex bathrooms would be for, and we would have laws implemented to make sure there bathrooms aren't neglected either ( make them just as comfortable as the rest).
I'm fine with the idea of unisex bathrooms being a thing. I just know I have never been harrassed in any bathroom. Most people just want in do their business and get out. Now, me just sitting here minding my own business outside of the bathroom, definitely have experienced guys making me uncomfortable. Never had a non passing transgendered person do it though.
I'm also super hard pressed to think of any news story where a transgendered person made the news for harassing women in the bathroom outside of the one who was being a straight up creep at massage parlors or something like that.
@Ez-Bri-Z I don't agree with you, I think they do have permanent affects, like making young boys develop boobs, have a high pitch voice, less facial hair. Etc (those things don't just go away once you're off hormones) and for girls, it would impair breast growth, throw off periods, deepen the voice, give then even more hair growth. Those do leave lasting effects that will be hard to mitigate later on.
I didn't say hormone blockers are surgery, but simply stating that fact doesn't change the common thing that the parents who approve of these procedures want - to make detrimental changes to their kids bodies before they are even capable of consenting. It's very disturbing.
Hormone blockers don't do that. It literally stops puberty from happening. They are basically just delayed in prepubescent states until they either come off of them and either just go through puberty as they would have or end up taking hormones more aligned to their identity and develop more along those lines.
@Ez-Bri-Z I don't want to overwhelm you but there's this other one from kasier Permanente that talks about the side effect of permanent breast growth. Thrive. kaiserpermanente. org/care-near-you/northern-california/eastbay/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/04/Estrogen-and-Blockers-What-You-Need-To-Know. pdf Again really wish I could give you the full links, not at that level yet.
There are long term side effects if you force a transgender child through two different kinds of puberty. Forcing someone to be in a gender role they don't identify in as well as having no real support structure are why suicide rates are so high in the transgender community.
Hell, my dad and I fought about me being who I am in the rainbow and I just married another woman. I can't imagine it for someone who is transgendered having to deal with it.
@Ez-Bri-Z I don't believe that's why the sucide rate is so high in the community. Again there's nothing wrong with being transgender or lesbian ( wish you and your wife well). But I think most of it stems from a lot of trans people having disproportionate levels of gender dysphoria - For example a trans person can know they want to be in a different body, but also not have it effect them to the level were they can't function on a daily basis. in my opinion a lot of trans people (but not all) have the former, gender dysphoria which causes them to be sudicial.
@Ez-Bri-Z not to mention just a lot of inner turmoil and pressure about making sure you pick the right gender/ if you are really happy as that gender. It's a lot for the average teen to process and then having to think about hormones or surgery - I could see why they would feel depressed.
The gender dysphoria which can help be relieved by letting them experience as close to a normal puberty to their identified gender as possible.
If I wanted to be a guy my whole life, but was forced to go through a female driven one. Go through having periods, develop breasts, etc id be pretty depressed too. If I got put on blockers and at 16 or 18 was allowed to go on testosterone and not experience any of that, then the only thing I'd really have to be concerned about would be a phalloplasty. If I have to go through 2, well now I have a feminine frame, I need a mastectomy, need to be on hormones for years to get bottom growth, etc.
Hey, kids can't have gender reassignment surgery. That's just not a thing. Trans kids would go on hormone blockers and see a therapist until they are old enough to decide on if they want to go on HRT which most of the effects of are reversible depending on how long the person is on them.
And the effects of puberty blockers are reversible. They've been using puberty blockers on kids with premature puberty for decades. The only issue with them really like any medication is long term use could have issues but more likely that they will be fine
@Aimée__LJ they aren't reversible and there are multiple studies that show this stuff. But again we can't just give these body changing hormones to kids who aren't in the capacity to even constant. Parents who do this are setting a dangerous precedent for careless operate on child before their even in the right mind to do so.
They aren't body changing hormones. They are there to prevent the hormones from changing their bodies, hence puberty blockers.
Operation on kids for this is also not a thing or at least super rare anyway if it is happening outside of intersexed individuals where the parents decide on a presenting gender for their child.
@Aimée__LJ No there are permanent effects that kids will have to deal with, permanent breast growth, sexual dysfunction etc, tiny crotch etc. When they go on puberty blockers at a young age.
It's not true that's it's not reversible, and those who wouldn't be honest about it clearly don't have these kids best interest at heart.
@Ez-Bri-Z yes they are, I gave you multiple likes, including some by real doctors offices like kaiser permanente that prove there are permanent lasting effects from hormone blockers. I don't know what else to do to make you see that this is a dangerous thing to be doing to children.
@Ez-Bri-Z your fundamental changing their hormones, before they can even start. That's wrong on so many levels. And yes in my book that is operating - no sane parent would do something like that to a child
@Aimée__LJ No they're not rare, and even the NHS itself removed the fact that these hormones were reversable from there website. Giving these hormones to kids under the age of consent/adulthood is very wrong in my book, but what's worse is lying about its permanent effects. Breast don't just go away after hormones, nor sexual dysfunction, or highten risk of breast cancer. We should not being living to these kids and their parents about what the true effects of these procedures are.
Like I said it depends how long the child is on them. Of course the longer they are on them the more likely things like breast growth and fertility will be somewhat irreversible. But it's pretty rare for someone even a child to detransition
Also by the time children go on HRT they are usually 12-15+ they are perfectly capable of understanding the repercussions of the medication if they do change their mind. That is also why there is therapy to help them understand the process and to guage if they are suited for HRT. You don't just go to the Dr and say "my child is trans" and they just hand you some HRT, it is a complicated process.
All I can say is agree to disagree. I'm talking hormone blockers not estrogen/testosterone. Frankly if they decide to detransition for some reason ill deal with that rather than have then commit suicide for denying them the opportunity to choose. I can have a mastectomy done to fix that. I dont have a surgery to fix them after they are dead for several years because a random person on the web was uncomfortable with the idea of getting someone the help they need
@Ez-Bri-Z yes! Transitioning is the best treatment we have found for people with gender identity issues. I think we should just trust the science including the psychology behind these treatments. We are just doing what is in the best interest for people.
What bugs me is we have hundreds of thousands of minors who can get plastic surgery for things like nose jobs and nobody bats an eye.
Tattoos? Sure knock yourself out. In Idaho you can be as young as 14 and get a tattoo with parents permission. Some states don't even have a minimum age requirement.
There isn't a place in the US where it is illegal to permanently modify your child's body against their consent with circumscions.
But to offer a life saving option of delaying puberty for a transgender child, suddenly we are up in arms about how we are going to ruin their lives. It is so hypocritical.
Medical treatment for dysphoria can include puberty blockers, which a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found reduces risks for mental health problems and suicide, which 35% of transgender youth attempt. Prepubescent minors may decide to socially transition before requesting treatment, experts said, social transitioning by seeing how changing their style and name makes them feel.
None of those things I just listed about puberty blockers or socially transitioning are as permanent as death or the long term dysphoria you can cause by denying transgendered minors the ability to present as how they identify.
May i suggest you consult a dictionary? I didn't just make the word up out of thing air.
Both my parents are very much alive and still married. They live minutes from my house. I was born gay the same way you were born straight. Nobody had to teach you who to be attracted to. I've always been attracted to girls.
no i am a scientist and have multiple problems with the very concept of gender that lead me to classify it as a religion not a science.
1. gender is unobservable and unfalsifiable. thus someone can change their gender daily or lie about their gender and... how do you tell? we need an objective way to tell. we don't have one. the genderists say "gender is fluid" as an excuse for this but that's an ad hoc response. not a solution.
2. the implosion principle states that if you allow one false truth into a body of knowledge you can twist that body of knowledge into ANYTHING. for example once physicists justified the nonsense of "string theory" people could turn around and say "well other sciences don't need to be observed so gender could be real too". one lie begets a 2nd
I used to interested in a couple girly things, but that went out of fashion cause people said it was bad, I mean it worked out for me, I guess? Only reason i liked it in the first place was for my sister and she used to be a degenerate back in the day, I'm glad I didn't turn out like her back then. Kids are really stupid, dumb, absolute morons and that is because they know nothing about life, a person has to grow up until he or she truly knows what is the best for them, often times they do not even know themselves even when they're damn adults, but freaking kids? The government in many countries will jail one of the parents if he does not comply with transgender none sense from his wife, it's all messed up and they're using our tax money to mutilate children, children who cannot consent!
No. It's child abuse since we know only a fraction of a percent of the population is even transgender and a lot of them have psychological issues. Parents should be raising their kids to fit into society not trying to use them to make political statements & feel woke.
Not at this point. It's too extreme and too dangerous, right now. With all the extremism going on with trying to endanger children, to trying to ruin women's sports, to potentially getting the law involved for "misgendering" someone. I tried being tolerant, but they're infringing on too many rights of the 99.5% of us, right now. I can't support losing rights in favor for 0.5% of the population (and probably even less than that, since not all trans people are the POS types like Jessica Yaniv).
I do support, gender norms are becoming not a thing of the past as people discover they can be more expressive over how they feel and behave akin to their identity. This is all new territory and I am fine with it as I advocate for equality not just for sexuality but gender as well.
"Take sex. We used to think it was pretty straightforward. X and a Y chromosome for males. Two Xs for females. But we see more combinations than that in real life … We have to listen to the science. And the science says that we’re all on a spectrum.” -Bill Nye the Science Guy...
no. i think these ideologies that are going around are wrecking society. i'm talking about forced gender cooptation. forced acceptance for easily fixable issues like obesity and forced acceptance of delusional idea of gender and sex. to me, those are signs of a failing society.
i'm for freedom of sexual expression as most people. but sexual expression is private and has no business in the public realm. and if you're a guy dressing like a girl (or vice versa), flaunting your sexuality, you're free to do that. but you are not entiteled to my respect for doing that.
i'm for equity or fairness between the genders. but our ideas of "equaltity" have nothing to do with any of that.
i think you should love yourself no matter how you look. but if you're morbidly obese, lose the fucking weight and don't bitch and moan about people telling you that you are unhealthy. cause those people are right, no matter how much you don't wanna hear it.
Surely, I used to have a much differrent opinion but my best friend is trans and the whole process I've seen her go through, the way she'd described everything... It made me change my mind a lot.
I still don't think a child should be transgender except for very select cases of diagnosed dysphoria or dysmorphia.
I also think a lot of people pretend to be trans for attention and that should be heavily discouraged.
the problem is there is no objective way to "diagnose" gender disorders as gender can never be observed. people can be WRONG about their gender and many people detransition eventually... after mutilating their bodies.
There is though, there's some pretty good actual tells, there's big differences in people wanting to be trans because they just wanna try something out or they don't like their gender and someone that is actually wired a certain way.
60-90% of people who claim to be trans under 18 eventually grow out of it
A review of more than 100 studies found no long term benefits of gender reassignment surgery at all for trans people. And that many studies had poor methodology heavily skewed towards telling trans people what they wanted to hear which means encourages the operations even though they have no positive effects www.theguardian.com/.../health.socialcare
no, we have no methodology. the "therapists" are activists in disguise
I've never claimed everyone that thinks they're trans actually is, I mentioned that dysphoria/dysmorphia should be a bar, that there's a lot of people that pretend to be trans, I've met people that went through a lot of trouble trying to get to where they are, people that live in very unfriendly countries but still deal with it, the people you're thinking of are not what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about people that are upset with their bodies, I'm talking about people with an actual wiring quirk, they exist and they should be accepted, this is not something they wanted or chose.
People are too easy about it, this is a troubling problem though, since there's also a trend of fake trans people/people that think they're trans for wrong reasons, in an ideal world checks shouldn't be necessary because nobody wants to be dysphoric, but it's necessary because of these people.
"nobody wants to be dysmorphic" i wish that were true. but i know human nature better than one as young as you
people want to have something wrong with them sometimes if life already isn't going well that way they can have something to blame for their unhappiness. its called self handicapping. that's why we see trans people never get happier as they get older. they only became trans to explain the unhappiness they already had... its an excuse
and dysphoria isn't a bar either, there are no objective standards to dysphoria
No what I'm saying is, people do not want to be actually dysmorphic, they think they know what it means to be, that they are because they want to be trans, nobody actually wants to have it, people just think they do/pretend they do, it's very rare for people to actually experiences
there is no distinction between people who want to be dysmorphic and people who think they want to be. from our exterior perspective its the same thing
the point is we can't trust a human's ability to self report information
imagine being your gender from birth, say a male, an all you know is you like makeup dresses so on, you can't help it... u just do... just like another male can't help he loves football and a beard. imagine you dont feel male... all u know is... u feel female.. so naturally u want to look an live as that... thats all you know is, you dont feel male, u dont feel yourself, until you become as female as possible... why can't this be ok... why can't we let people live their lives in peace... why must we expect them to stay their birth gender, stay suffering, so were not uncomfortable,,,, i support people being free an happy to be who they feel they are, and we all should support it.
Not the way The Intersectional/Identitarian Mob is pushing it, especially when it is being aimed at Primary/ Junior School age children where the kids are being shoved down the Transgender track if the kids show the slightest mannerism of the opposite sex.
Nope. There are 2 genders male expressed genetically as xy. And female expressed genetically as xx. And physiological differentiation such as xxy or xyy etc is a genetic disorder and comes with a myriad of health problems and whilst i feel for those people that dosen't make them a new gender. Or they're mental disorders in which case get then a psychologist not validation.
Adults can do whatever they want, but people need to stop pushing their agenda to trans the kids. Children are too young to make these life altering the decisions. Bad parents who let their kids do this shit deserve to rot in jail.
I think there are people that have physical issue re. not well defined gender, eg not being totally XX or XY. Sometimes with both sexes physical traits. These people deserve good care and understanding. Gender dysphoria not linked to a real physical condition should be considered IMHO a psychological pathology and treated as such. Normalization of intersex / motivate them to treatment (hormones, sex changes) is IMHO not a good idea.
For fucks sake, I worse a dress once playing with the neighbor girl when I was I don't know 11?🤷♂️ was a one time thing all the parents had a quick laugh no big deal. If I had some of these kids moron parents they would have seen that, pushed it, and ruined my whole life.
Several different things here. If I support normalization? Yes. If I support forced, coerced, or influenced trans? No! If I support under 18 year olds take hormones or do the operation? No! It's fine and should be considered normal, by an adult making a conscious decision.
if someone has an actual intergender disorder like klinefelter syndrome i understand but aside from that i think it’s gender dysphoria. Just because you feel one way inside doesn’t mean a sex change actually is going to validate your delusions. a guy that has his dick removed and takes hormones to get tits is still a guy just with artificial body parts. I think most people regret “transitioning” eventually if they do.
I’m trans and I voted no because we’re not “normal” the same way any other natural variant isn’t “normal” what I want is to be normal I don’t want normal people to be like me
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
95Opinion
Yeah, just stop going after the kids. Let them decide once they're an adult and their brain is fully there. Also separate unisex bathrooms, and laws stating you can only go into the biological bathroom of your choice *after* you transition would be much appreciated
I can only speak to the LGBT thing here as a lesbian, but at no point did anyone come for me to make me like women just like nobody came for you to possibly make you straight (assuming you are). That is just something you know. Trying to force someone into a role they are not for the mindsake of a random strange just seems cruel to me.
Neither of my kids have shown signs of being transgender, but even if they did, I'd still let them explore their gender expression because it is nobody else's business.
Where I think the line needs to sort of be looked at is hormone therapy prior to being of age of consent. I have no problem with blockers being used to delay puberty until they are of age to make their decision legally.
As for the bathroom thing, where do you consider "after transition"? Are you saying after they have surgery? Not a lot of then can afford it or may even want it. Are you saying socially transition? Ok yeah, I'd be more down for that.
@Ez-Bri-Z see the problem is that's where I disagree with you. It's not cruel to denial kids hormone blockers and I am not forcing them into any role by doing so. It's a simple matter of keeping them safe until they are at the mental capacity to make the right decisions for themselves. You wouldn't let 5 year old get permanent life altering surgery to become a fairy or barbie just because one day they said they want it - in my eyes that's horrible parenting. It's not wrong for a kid to be transgender, not at all. But it's very wrong for a parent to take a kids word at face value and then make permanent decisions for them based on (what I believe) they want for the child instead of what the child actually wants for themselves.
If transgender parents really cared for their children, then to me, they would wait until their kids are adults with fully functional brains before jumping the gun to operate on their own children.
@Ez-Bri-Z oops I misunderstood you sorry about that, but no I do mean full transition. I'm not taking that risk.
Hormone blockers isn't permanent and thats the point. All it does is stop puberty until you are ready for it to happen. So if they are still set on transitioning they end up having a puberty very similar to their desired gender. If they decide to detransition then they just have a normal cisgender puberty for their assigned gender at birth.
There are no operations at all.
@Ez-Bri-Z and if they can't afford it then thats what the unisex bathrooms would be for, and we would have laws implemented to make sure there bathrooms aren't neglected either ( make them just as comfortable as the rest).
I'm fine with the idea of unisex bathrooms being a thing. I just know I have never been harrassed in any bathroom. Most people just want in do their business and get out. Now, me just sitting here minding my own business outside of the bathroom, definitely have experienced guys making me uncomfortable. Never had a non passing transgendered person do it though.
I'm also super hard pressed to think of any news story where a transgendered person made the news for harassing women in the bathroom outside of the one who was being a straight up creep at massage parlors or something like that.
@Ez-Bri-Z I don't agree with you, I think they do have permanent affects, like making young boys develop boobs, have a high pitch voice, less facial hair. Etc (those things don't just go away once you're off hormones) and for girls, it would impair breast growth, throw off periods, deepen the voice, give then even more hair growth. Those do leave lasting effects that will be hard to mitigate later on.
I didn't say hormone blockers are surgery, but simply stating that fact doesn't change the common thing that the parents who approve of these procedures want - to make detrimental changes to their kids bodies before they are even capable of consenting. It's very disturbing.
@Ez-Bri-Z jessica yaniv
Hormone blockers don't do that. It literally stops puberty from happening. They are basically just delayed in prepubescent states until they either come off of them and either just go through puberty as they would have or end up taking hormones more aligned to their identity and develop more along those lines.
Yeah, that is that crazy b*tch. That isn't even a transactivist thing. She is just a predator.
@Ez-Bri-Z that's not true at all, hormones blockers carry permanent side effects.
Genderhq. org/trans-youth-side-effects-hormone-blockers-surgery/
May i counter with one of my own?
www.mayoclinic.org/.../art-20459075
@Ez-Bri-Z Transgendertrend. com/nhs-no-longer-puberty-blockers-reversible/
@Ez-Bri-Z I wish I was at 3+ so I could give you full links but short short story - they're not reversable they leave lasting affects.
@Ez-Bri-Z I don't want to overwhelm you but there's this other one from kasier Permanente that talks about the side effect of permanent breast growth.
Thrive. kaiserpermanente. org/care-near-you/northern-california/eastbay/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/04/Estrogen-and-Blockers-What-You-Need-To-Know. pdf
Again really wish I could give you the full links, not at that level yet.
Common sense should tell us that when you fuck with the developmental process of a child there will be long-term side effects.
There are long term side effects if you force a transgender child through two different kinds of puberty. Forcing someone to be in a gender role they don't identify in as well as having no real support structure are why suicide rates are so high in the transgender community.
Hell, my dad and I fought about me being who I am in the rainbow and I just married another woman. I can't imagine it for someone who is transgendered having to deal with it.
@Ez-Bri-Z I don't believe that's why the sucide rate is so high in the community. Again there's nothing wrong with being transgender or lesbian ( wish you and your wife well). But I think most of it stems from a lot of trans people having disproportionate levels of gender dysphoria - For example a trans person can know they want to be in a different body, but also not have it effect them to the level were they can't function on a daily basis. in my opinion a lot of trans people (but not all) have the former, gender dysphoria which causes them to be sudicial.
@Ez-Bri-Z not to mention just a lot of inner turmoil and pressure about making sure you pick the right gender/ if you are really happy as that gender. It's a lot for the average teen to process and then having to think about hormones or surgery - I could see why they would feel depressed.
The gender dysphoria which can help be relieved by letting them experience as close to a normal puberty to their identified gender as possible.
If I wanted to be a guy my whole life, but was forced to go through a female driven one. Go through having periods, develop breasts, etc id be pretty depressed too. If I got put on blockers and at 16 or 18 was allowed to go on testosterone and not experience any of that, then the only thing I'd really have to be concerned about would be a phalloplasty. If I have to go through 2, well now I have a feminine frame, I need a mastectomy, need to be on hormones for years to get bottom growth, etc.
Hey, kids can't have gender reassignment surgery. That's just not a thing. Trans kids would go on hormone blockers and see a therapist until they are old enough to decide on if they want to go on HRT which most of the effects of are reversible depending on how long the person is on them.
Exactly.
And the effects of puberty blockers are reversible. They've been using puberty blockers on kids with premature puberty for decades. The only issue with them really like any medication is long term use could have issues but more likely that they will be fine
@Aimée__LJ they aren't reversible and there are multiple studies that show this stuff. But again we can't just give these body changing hormones to kids who aren't in the capacity to even constant. Parents who do this are setting a dangerous precedent for careless operate on child before their even in the right mind to do so.
They aren't body changing hormones. They are there to prevent the hormones from changing their bodies, hence puberty blockers.
Operation on kids for this is also not a thing or at least super rare anyway if it is happening outside of intersexed individuals where the parents decide on a presenting gender for their child.
@Aimée__LJ No there are permanent effects that kids will have to deal with, permanent breast growth, sexual dysfunction etc, tiny crotch etc. When they go on puberty blockers at a young age.
It's not true that's it's not reversible, and those who wouldn't be honest about it clearly don't have these kids best interest at heart.
@Ez-Bri-Z yes they are, I gave you multiple likes, including some by real doctors offices like kaiser permanente that prove there are permanent lasting effects from hormone blockers. I don't know what else to do to make you see that this is a dangerous thing to be doing to children.
@Ez-Bri-Z your fundamental changing their hormones, before they can even start. That's wrong on so many levels. And yes in my book that is operating - no sane parent would do something like that to a child
These are things that could happen but they're very rare. Hence why any study you find on this will say "may cause" not definitely.
@Aimée__LJ No they're not rare, and even the NHS itself removed the fact that these hormones were reversable from there website. Giving these hormones to kids under the age of consent/adulthood is very wrong in my book, but what's worse is lying about its permanent effects. Breast don't just go away after hormones, nor sexual dysfunction, or highten risk of breast cancer. We should not being living to these kids and their parents about what the true effects of these procedures are.
Like I said it depends how long the child is on them. Of course the longer they are on them the more likely things like breast growth and fertility will be somewhat irreversible. But it's pretty rare for someone even a child to detransition
Also by the time children go on HRT they are usually 12-15+ they are perfectly capable of understanding the repercussions of the medication if they do change their mind. That is also why there is therapy to help them understand the process and to guage if they are suited for HRT. You don't just go to the Dr and say "my child is trans" and they just hand you some HRT, it is a complicated process.
All I can say is agree to disagree. I'm talking hormone blockers not estrogen/testosterone. Frankly if they decide to detransition for some reason ill deal with that rather than have then commit suicide for denying them the opportunity to choose. I can have a mastectomy done to fix that. I dont have a surgery to fix them after they are dead for several years because a random person on the web was uncomfortable with the idea of getting someone the help they need
@Ez-Bri-Z yes! Transitioning is the best treatment we have found for people with gender identity issues. I think we should just trust the science including the psychology behind these treatments. We are just doing what is in the best interest for people.
What bugs me is we have hundreds of thousands of minors who can get plastic surgery for things like nose jobs and nobody bats an eye.
Tattoos? Sure knock yourself out. In Idaho you can be as young as 14 and get a tattoo with parents permission. Some states don't even have a minimum age requirement.
There isn't a place in the US where it is illegal to permanently modify your child's body against their consent with circumscions.
But to offer a life saving option of delaying puberty for a transgender child, suddenly we are up in arms about how we are going to ruin their lives. It is so hypocritical.
Medical treatment for dysphoria can include puberty blockers, which a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study found reduces risks for mental health problems and suicide, which 35% of transgender youth attempt. Prepubescent minors may decide to socially transition before requesting treatment, experts said, social transitioning by seeing how changing their style and name makes them feel.
None of those things I just listed about puberty blockers or socially transitioning are as permanent as death or the long term dysphoria you can cause by denying transgendered minors the ability to present as how they identify.
@Ez-Bri-Z no such thing as gender so letting kids examine that would be child abuse as you are confusing them for no purpose
also research is becoming very consistent you weren't born gay. you have either a dead parent or molestation in your childhood or some other trauma
May i suggest you consult a dictionary? I didn't just make the word up out of thing air.
Both my parents are very much alive and still married. They live minutes from my house. I was born gay the same way you were born straight. Nobody had to teach you who to be attracted to. I've always been attracted to girls.
Thin*
@Ez-Bri-Z you don't think stopping puberty has some... mental and physical side effects? yikes
@007kingifrit Wow, were you just looking to resurrect old threads?
Not as it is implemented now.
Are there people who suffer from transgenderism? Unfortunately yes.
However, the transgender proponents have promoted child abuse. Parents happily go along with their young kids believing they are the opposite sex.
The problem with that is young kids don't begin to comprehend gender/sex until they hit puberty.
So to encourage a kid's fantasy that he is a she does not allow the kid to grow and mature at his normal rate.
If a person chooses to embrace being transgender after reaching an age of understanding that is fine.
But promoting puberty blockers and body altering surgery to young children is not more than child abuse.
no i am a scientist and have multiple problems with the very concept of gender that lead me to classify it as a religion not a science.
1. gender is unobservable and unfalsifiable. thus someone can change their gender daily or lie about their gender and... how do you tell? we need an objective way to tell. we don't have one. the genderists say "gender is fluid" as an excuse for this but that's an ad hoc response. not a solution.
2. the implosion principle states that if you allow one false truth into a body of knowledge you can twist that body of knowledge into ANYTHING. for example once physicists justified the nonsense of "string theory" people could turn around and say "well other sciences don't need to be observed so gender could be real too". one lie begets a 2nd
I used to interested in a couple girly things, but that went out of fashion cause people said it was bad, I mean it worked out for me, I guess? Only reason i liked it in the first place was for my sister and she used to be a degenerate back in the day, I'm glad I didn't turn out like her back then. Kids are really stupid, dumb, absolute morons and that is because they know nothing about life, a person has to grow up until he or she truly knows what is the best for them, often times they do not even know themselves even when they're damn adults, but freaking kids? The government in many countries will jail one of the parents if he does not comply with transgender none sense from his wife, it's all messed up and they're using our tax money to mutilate children, children who cannot consent!
No. It's child abuse since we know only a fraction of a percent of the population is even transgender and a lot of them have psychological issues. Parents should be raising their kids to fit into society not trying to use them to make political statements & feel woke.
Not at this point. It's too extreme and too dangerous, right now. With all the extremism going on with trying to endanger children, to trying to ruin women's sports, to potentially getting the law involved for "misgendering" someone. I tried being tolerant, but they're infringing on too many rights of the 99.5% of us, right now. I can't support losing rights in favor for 0.5% of the population (and probably even less than that, since not all trans people are the POS types like Jessica Yaniv).
I do support, gender norms are becoming not a thing of the past as people discover they can be more expressive over how they feel and behave akin to their identity. This is all new territory and I am fine with it as I advocate for equality not just for sexuality but gender as well.
"Take sex. We used to think it was pretty straightforward. X and a Y chromosome for males. Two Xs for females. But we see more combinations than that in real life …
We have to listen to the science. And the science says that we’re all on a spectrum.”
-Bill Nye the Science Guy...
no. i think these ideologies that are going around are wrecking society. i'm talking about forced gender cooptation. forced acceptance for easily fixable issues like obesity and forced acceptance of delusional idea of gender and sex.
to me, those are signs of a failing society.
i'm for freedom of sexual expression as most people. but sexual expression is private and has no business in the public realm. and if you're a guy dressing like a girl (or vice versa), flaunting your sexuality, you're free to do that. but you are not entiteled to my respect for doing that.
i'm for equity or fairness between the genders. but our ideas of "equaltity" have nothing to do with any of that.
i think you should love yourself no matter how you look. but if you're morbidly obese, lose the fucking weight and don't bitch and moan about people telling you that you are unhealthy. cause those people are right, no matter how much you don't wanna hear it.
Surely, I used to have a much differrent opinion but my best friend is trans and the whole process I've seen her go through, the way she'd described everything... It made me change my mind a lot.
I still don't think a child should be transgender except for very select cases of diagnosed dysphoria or dysmorphia.
I also think a lot of people pretend to be trans for attention and that should be heavily discouraged.
But yes overal, I think it should be normalized.
the problem is there is no objective way to "diagnose" gender disorders as gender can never be observed. people can be WRONG about their gender and many people detransition eventually... after mutilating their bodies.
There is though, there's some pretty good actual tells, there's big differences in people wanting to be trans because they just wanna try something out or they don't like their gender and someone that is actually wired a certain way.
60-90% of people who claim to be trans under 18 eventually grow out of it
A review of more than 100 studies found no long term benefits of gender reassignment surgery at all for trans people. And that many studies had poor methodology heavily skewed towards telling trans people what they wanted to hear which means encourages the operations even though they have no positive effects www.theguardian.com/.../health.socialcare
no, we have no methodology. the "therapists" are activists in disguise
I've never claimed everyone that thinks they're trans actually is, I mentioned that dysphoria/dysmorphia should be a bar, that there's a lot of people that pretend to be trans, I've met people that went through a lot of trouble trying to get to where they are, people that live in very unfriendly countries but still deal with it, the people you're thinking of are not what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about people that are upset with their bodies, I'm talking about people with an actual wiring quirk, they exist and they should be accepted, this is not something they wanted or chose.
People are too easy about it, this is a troubling problem though, since there's also a trend of fake trans people/people that think they're trans for wrong reasons, in an ideal world checks shouldn't be necessary because nobody wants to be dysphoric, but it's necessary because of these people.
"nobody wants to be dysmorphic" i wish that were true. but i know human nature better than one as young as you
people want to have something wrong with them sometimes if life already isn't going well that way they can have something to blame for their unhappiness. its called self handicapping. that's why we see trans people never get happier as they get older. they only became trans to explain the unhappiness they already had... its an excuse
and dysphoria isn't a bar either, there are no objective standards to dysphoria
No what I'm saying is, people do not want to be actually dysmorphic, they think they know what it means to be, that they are because they want to be trans, nobody actually wants to have it, people just think they do/pretend they do, it's very rare for people to actually experiences
Also don't take age into this that's irrelevant.
there is no distinction between people who want to be dysmorphic and people who think they want to be. from our exterior perspective its the same thing
the point is we can't trust a human's ability to self report information
imagine being your gender from birth, say a male, an all you know is you like makeup dresses so on, you can't help it... u just do... just like another male can't help he loves football and a beard. imagine you dont feel male... all u know is... u feel female.. so naturally u want to look an live as that... thats all you know is, you dont feel male, u dont feel yourself, until you become as female as possible... why can't this be ok... why can't we let people live their lives in peace... why must we expect them to stay their birth gender, stay suffering, so were not uncomfortable,,,, i support people being free an happy to be who they feel they are, and we all should support it.
Okay then so I guess a n** can identify as a white man and get white privilege
I have lived in a male body all my life.
I have no clue as to what "it feels like" to be in a female body. No male can!!!
Do people suffer body dysphoria? Yes!!!
Girls who suffer from anorexia or bulimia suffer from body dysphoria.
It is a mental health issue.
Does that go for serial killers too?
this is an emotional appeal. not a scientific one. gender isn't a real concept. the man who likes dresses isn't trans. just weird
@Hanmakev Ha Ha
Not the way The Intersectional/Identitarian Mob is pushing it, especially when it is being aimed at Primary/ Junior School age children where the kids are being shoved down the Transgender track if the kids show the slightest mannerism of the opposite sex.
1. For kids I don't support it.
2. I am transphobic , I get nervous around them and don't know how to react.
3. I have never directly interacted with them.
4. Here transgender are different than you find in western countries.
5. But none the less I neither support nor insult them.
6. Since I never interacted with them at emotional level I have no idea how to feel I am neutral in this case
Nope. There are 2 genders male expressed genetically as xy. And female expressed genetically as xx. And physiological differentiation such as xxy or xyy etc is a genetic disorder and comes with a myriad of health problems and whilst i feel for those people that dosen't make them a new gender. Or they're mental disorders in which case get then a psychologist not validation.
Adults can do whatever they want, but people need to stop pushing their agenda to trans the kids. Children are too young to make these life altering the decisions. Bad parents who let their kids do this shit deserve to rot in jail.
I think there are people that have physical issue re. not well defined gender, eg not being totally XX or XY. Sometimes with both sexes physical traits. These people deserve good care and understanding. Gender dysphoria not linked to a real physical condition should be considered IMHO a psychological pathology and treated as such. Normalization of intersex / motivate them to treatment (hormones, sex changes) is IMHO not a good idea.
Not at the age of those CHILDREN in the pics.
For fucks sake, I worse a dress once playing with the neighbor girl when I was I don't know 11?🤷♂️ was a one time thing all the parents had a quick laugh no big deal. If I had some of these kids moron parents they would have seen that, pushed it, and ruined my whole life.
Several different things here.
If I support normalization? Yes.
If I support forced, coerced, or influenced trans? No!
If I support under 18 year olds take hormones or do the operation? No!
It's fine and should be considered normal, by an adult making a conscious decision.
if someone has an actual intergender disorder like klinefelter syndrome i understand but aside from that i think it’s gender dysphoria. Just because you feel one way inside doesn’t mean a sex change actually is going to validate your delusions. a guy that has his dick removed and takes hormones to get tits is still a guy just with artificial body parts. I think most people regret “transitioning” eventually if they do.
I’m trans and I voted no because we’re not “normal” the same way any other natural variant isn’t “normal” what I want is to be normal I don’t want normal people to be like me
That is a well balanced view. I respect that.
It was cool until terms like , "pregnant people" ,"chest feeders" and "menstrators" became a thing
Those terms prove that the transgender movement is full of science deniers.