I think she should do some jail time.
Read this through
The prosecutor provides a detailed list of procedural steps that were flat-out ignored or circumvented to get to the point of injection the wrong drug and fatally killing a patient.
I think she should serve time, long enough to say "damn", but short enough where she can come out and if she's resourceful enough, recover and have an actual life.
She should never be able to work in the medical field again.
Another issue I have is... it was also made clear during the trial, that while she's the culprit in that case, the working environment, culture and ethics, allowed for this to occur as well.
It sounds like anyone assigned to that patient could've done this, it just happened to be her on that particular day. So while she's doing time, I think her superiors should be held accountable as well.
I'm sure civil lawsuits are already filed, but she shouldn't be doing time on her own.
I don't absolve her of what she did, even in a bad working environment, even when not going with the flow, could've brought repercussions to her status working there, not saying something is a choice.
But good leadership allows for good accountability and it wasn't present in that hospital, she shouldn't be alone in this.
Just my opinion, thanks for making this post, be safe and good luck.
Her case was public, but this happens more than you realize. People do not realize how hard nurses have it. Nursing in some ways is even more difficult than being a doctors. Doctors have longer training, but most of the time they practice a specific type of medicine and become experts in it while nurses are kinda jack of all trades. Nurses usually have a heavier workload than doctors and no choice in matters dealing with doctors.
If we punished ALL nurses for the mistakes this nurse made, there would be no nurses. Accidents happen and they are horrible, but that is why every medical professional is supposed to have insurance to cover these situations. If the decision and medication is in a nurse's training and scope of practice, then they should be shielded from criminal charges. If they act outside of policy/training/scope of practice and make a mistake, then criminal charges are appropriate. At least she admitted to her mistake. Many medical professionals are too prideful to admit mistakes.
As someone who works in a hospital can i tell you right now how difficult it is being a nurse nowadays, they are swamped with paperwork, they are taken away from paitents because the paperwork Must be done, since covid it's gotten worse, the rats jumped ship. Rats being those that were employed by the health board, went to agencies to get twice the money and do little work that the hospitals have to beg the agencies for these rats to work shifts. I call them rats because they have left Staffing levels to critical. I work on a ward that is considered acute, for 24 paitents there was 3 nurses and 1 hca, we were swamped with admissions and run off our feet dealing with paitents needing care that we could barely give them. Some nurses are working 10 days in a row others 6 or 7 just to keep staff levels to a minimum they could be working both night and day shift in the same week and people wonder why there is mistakes? This nurse shouldn't solely be blamed, higher up the foodchain needs to be held to account but as per its nurses or hcas that gets done for. These *mistakes* will keep happening until they rid health boards of the rot and that starts at the top
All I can say is hospitals shouldn't have fired nurses who refused to get vaccinated. Plus why aren't they hiring any new ones? Lots of girls are getting nursing degrees in college. Are they just too cheap to hire new nurses?
@Echosoul You also realize that Doctors and Nurses and help in the hospitals for the first 6 month had no personal protection equipment to work with RIGHT. The vaccine mandates were and still are bullshit flip flopping every other day. We could not go out to shop movies visit anyone without a vaccine passport but I could have active TB and go anywhere and infect hundreds at a time. LMFAO
I think probation and the guilt of killing a patient should be enough for her. As long as she never worked as a nurse again.
I think that's the important factor. Never let her be a nurse again.
Opinion
51Opinion
When you are a patient in the hospital, you are at their mercy to take care of you, NOT KILL YOU! The patient was a victim by a nurse. She should have taken just a minute to double check that the patient was getting the correct medicine. But she didn't. No matter how busy and chaotic a work environment is, you must double check your own work before you proceed.
Since she did kill another human being when she just could have double checked what she was injecting bleach into them she needs to do jail time for her carelessness and lose her nurse's license.
here we go again blaming Trump again for the something that he never said to do but people take it like Gospel that CNN put it the air JUST LIKE RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA AND IT WAS LIE
A lot of professions have a huge responsibility, from domestic gas engineers to aircraft engineers, all have peoples lives at stake, everyone is human and definitely not infallible. In a lot of professions it’s known if you make a mistake you can face jail time.
in this case I can’t see what exactly happened, there may be other factors at play which would potentially mean no jail time but struck off, drugs placed on wrong shelf in supply area etc, worked 14 hours, bad hand writing on the hospital notes. Etc.
we have a legal system to protect everyone and to ensure fair treatment.
Well there is concrete proof that it was accident, I'm ok with it. But I don't think she should be working in the medical field after that. Simply because I don't think we need to risk her potentiality using a job in the medical field to kill people. I'd also say the same thing if she was a man. Simply because so many men and women have been caught murdering patenting in the medical field.
There are two different thoughts on this. First, a nurse should already be confirming what they get before using the med. I relate this to a scrub nurse keeping track of the sponges a surgeon uses. The nurse is NOT treating the patient, they are ONLY getting the items the medical provider is wanting. I know we are all human, but the ER is not someplace to be daydreaming and not have your mind on the job. So I am not sure I am OK with no jail time. I say this NOT because I want to cause this person more pain. I want a clear message sent to ALL nurses! Stop checking meds before use at the risk of a murder charge. The next thought is what happened here. Let her by with being careless and having that carelessness cost another's life.
This was a world class railroad job of a person under undue stress and strain made a mistake which ended in a death it happens everyday with Doctors a nd Nurses working 24hr to 48 hr with out sleep in the middle a pandemic are pushed and pushed by management to do more with less and are rushed to do it in less time of course something is bound to happen and it did. The family of the deceased asked for no jail time. and did not want vengeance just to make sure it did not happen again. But the powers that be made this women the sacrifice for their GROSS MISMANAGEMENT causing a death she is in jail and they the [hospital ] are not held accountable anything
no jail time. intentional is another matter, but was mistake. I say same for some cop scenarios.
We don't hold engineers to this scrutiny, or CEO's. President wipes out a whole Afghani family... nada, not even a trial.
It's a no even if she killed me. But evaluation as to how to improve, absolutely, or if she's fit for the job.
Yeah…indicting presidents is a whole separate issue I could talk about for weeks.
But I do agree there’s a similarity with cops, say who pull their gun instead of a taser (though I’m still pondering how that’s possible). But guys like Chauvin literally strangled a man for 10 minutes.
Kim potter makes sense to me, we just never get to that level of analysis because we aren't searching for the "why" ... it's all about if it was a crime. this why all the lawyers need put in jail and replaced by Toyota engineers... we need to find out the motive or what caused the error in thinking. People make mistakes, reverse things... Hormones off, bad nights sleep. My spouse has reversed things... especially when hormones are off. I'v reversed things, probably due to sleep or getting older. We don't know, but it happens at a low rate. Definitely helps if people don't resist arrest... that's another issue... put Toyota on this issue asap!
Ditto Chauvin. we got no information as to why he did that, but he was confident at the time of what he was doing... not unlike other crazy people. I have my guess as to what caused his heartlessness, but little data to support it. This why I say we need to put Toyota in charge of all these cases as they know how to find root causes and eliminate them... rather than finding the offending line worker and jailing them, thinking that will solve anything. It doesn't, and then the next one happens and we are shocked problems still exist. Then people start to react poorly to cops, and shocker of shockers, we have a huge social mess. Most of these people are doing their jobs... they are human, with error rate. I'm glad we do things right with the NTSB, that's an example of how it should work.
Thansk for letting me brain dump... appreciate your opinion!
haha, I have run a lot of toyotas, I see them fixing issues... they get better... usually.
Mistakes happen. Who would benefit if she serves jail time? If she goes to jail, will it prevent people from making mistakes? If no one benefits and it doesn't prevent people from making mistakes, then jail time serves no useful purpose. However, it does prevent her from being productive and it cost money and resources.
I think she should get jail time, as a nurse she should know what medicines to give and not to give to patients and someone died over an extremely stupid mistake that could have easily been avoided, so I say jail time and never being able to work in the medical field at all
Do you feel the same way about doctors who fuck up and kill their patients, or surgeons who kill them on the operating table?
No, for them it’s just “shit happens.” “That’s medicine.”
But throw the nurse in jail.
If a surgeon is supposed to be doing heart surgery and they cut the wrong artery being careless and the patient dies they should be held accountable
@Agagagagaga Exactly, and one of the concerns is by the American Nurses Association is that this will prevent nurses from admitting to mistakes, even if it puts the patient in jeapardy for fear of ending up in the slammer. I work as a hospital nurse but sometimes I have doubts about wanting to continue injecting people medications, even though I take every precaution not to make a mistake, but if the risk is to end in the slammer for a mistake, why is anyone going to want to continue to go into nursing or medicine from that matter.
@whirled_up_girl And who is going to lose their license, and who do you think administration will protect—the doctor... or the nurse? Which one do they actually value? C’mon. The only time people here about a doctor in the news is Sanjay Gupta or Dr. Oz, the only time they hear about a nurse in the news it’s because they are being investigated.
@Agagagagaga Yeah, you have a point there.
The key word there is "accidently".
She was no serial killer trying to murder patients, and just a stressed nurse who royally fucked up one time too many.
But obviously with this conviction she will have her patient records scrutinised. May well be she's out to harm patients. But until that is investigated she not guilty of that charge.
When you kill someone, jail time should be involved, not saying it needs to be long though, a year max with probation for five or so after that.
This is a death that can never be undone. If her crime could be undone, then no jail time let her work to undo it.
We take death and killing people entirely too light in the USA. Thus if your going to kill someone make it look like an accident and not intentional and your fine, no jail time.
I feel bad for her as she was working in a high intensity environment, and the stress that’s been put on our nurses in the last couple of years has been enormous. Tbh, they were pushed to their max pre-covid, so I can only imagine where the pandemic left them.
However, manslaughter is still manslaughter. I only hope they find preventative methods to avoid any further mistakes. So that something positive comes out of something negative.
We're human, and as close to perfect as we'd like to be in medicine, mistakes do happen. Fortunately, the vast majority of those do NOT result in a patient's death.
I don't expect her to serve jail time for this, but at the same time she's now out of a job. Specifically for the medical field. If she's an RN, that's a fair number of years of school and money now wasted due to a single "mistake". Her life, going forward, is not going to be an easy one, even without jail time.
This is a system failure, not a personal failure. She should not do jail time. I question the conviction. Critical ments in patient care should be done with a checklist under a two person rule. One does it, one verifies it. Possible complications should be anticipated and have their own checklists.
Before an airliner departs two pilots perform a preflight checklist.
"Several mistakes" I think is the key in this case. One thing to happen once, but several times? There could be a lot more to the story also than we know about? And when it comes to medicine and people's lives, you want to take extra precautions to make sure "mistakes" don't happen. I feel for her if it was an honest mistake. It would be a horrible position to be in. But also "technically" in the eyes of the law, committed murder.
It's one of those things where if it were your family or friends were the recipient of neglect, you might have a deferent view.
I guess though it has to be decided on whether or not there was intent!
My Mom had a cancer operation - and died anyway.
The surgeon: I'm sure that he's looking forward to his new dazzling car.
Why would a nurse be treated differently?
We all make mistakes (or don't know what we're doing)
I feel satisfied to NOT see this woman in jail.
If something's wrong here, then the worshipping of drugs.
Should be charged with murder as simple as simple. In France there's something called "murder without intention of doing it" "accidental murder". Which is what she did.
That’s awesome people where I live get away with Murder because they say they didn’t Know.
If it was completely a mistake, but also part of a pattern of neglect and mistakes, then she shouldn't be allowed to continue being a nurse. But I don't think anyone should get jail time for a complete mistake.
Well you can bet there will probably be a nice civil lawsuit against both her and the hospital.
probation will be enough. You don't have to destroy every life for every single mistake by punishing them with jail time. Jail makes them even worse. Obviously, this nurse isn't someone evil. So she doesn't deserve to be in a place that would make it even worse. Punishments should be there to correct wrongdoings. Not make them even worse.
I have to wonder if the hospital ran the 'two man' rule for nurses who administer drugs, as they do over here In the UK?
The 'two man' rule is where nurses double check each other on drugs they are going to administer to prevent cases like the one above in busy ER's.
As for the question of jail time I cannot say as I do not have all of the information & I'm not on the jury.
I think mistakes happen especially when put under pressure. Unfortunately in this line of work a mistake can cost someone their life.
Maybe if she spent less time posting selfies to Insta and focused more on not killing patients?
@KrakenAttackin I don't see the relevance there.
very few nurses go to jail most just want to do a good job without being micromanaged by some asshole who has no idea of what's going on just there to increase production. but if micromanagement screws up the nurse gets blamed per usual
@Smashingdoozy. So what are your they about police officers who accidentally shoot an unarmed subject in a very stressful situation?
A cop has a second to make a decision. This nurse could have taken all the time she wanted.
@KrakenAttackin very different situations. It's not like they accidentally reach for their guns and shoot. They shoot with intent. This woman made a mistake. Not knowing if a person is armed or not isn't a mistake it's poor training.
@KrakenAttackin no not really. Last cop accidentally shot a guy got ten years.
@Smashingdoozy. It's not like she didn't intentionally load the syringe and inject the wrong patient. Pretty white girl privilege.
@KrakenAttackin she didn't inject the wrong patient. She injected the wrong medicine
@Smashingdoozy. However it happened she killed someone.
@Smashingdoozy "I don't see the relevance there". Sitting from atop your white female privilege, I bet you don't.
@KrakenAttackin yeah there's no denying she did, but it was an accident. It's pretty hard to accidentally shoot someone. Please do tell me what relevance taking selfies has to do with your job? I take selfies all the time but it doesn't affect my job performance.
@KrakenAttackin is she even white? Doesn’t matter.
I guess intent is the issue. Chauvin went to prison for strangling a handcuffed suspect with his knee.
She injected the wrong drug.
Incompetent but not malicious. No jail time, just strike her off and let her go work some place else.
@CountessSarah You don't happen to be a nurse are you. You sure have a uncaring attitude. Let her go work somewhere else you say? And what? Kill more people? You won't get very far in life with your poor attitude. I hope to God you aren't a nurse or just in some other position to hurt or kill people. Gee's!
i am sure the victim's family is not happy at all but she did not do it on purpose.
i guess if i were her i would be happy to not be sitting in jail.
but i think she should of gotten a little more than probation for what she did. but she is not a monster either.
That is a very critical situation.. she should be jailed, not just to punish her but to make an example, human life isn't a game!
I also believe that an investigation should be made to find out the ''why'' she made that mistake, and MANY improvements should follow, to prevent such mistake from happening again!
You're supposed to have two RNs read the label to one another before you even fill the Syringe. It should be Jail time in my opinion and barred from ever practicinig Medicine again.
She should've been charged with, and found guilty of, "criminally negligent manslaughter", not "criminally negligent homicide", because the word "homicide" implies that patient's death was planned or deliberate, which was not the case.
I would not have her sit out a sentence in jail. However many murders are accidents. Many murderers are in there because of an accident. Either way, have her lose the ability to work in the medical field ever again.
Americans are always quick to jump to jail time and locking people up. It's no surprise America has one of the highest incarceration rates of any country. Over %1 of Americans are in jail. It's not the land of the free when %1 is behind bars.
Definition of manslaughter.
Extreme negligence resulted in the patient under the nurse's care's death.
manslaughter
măn′slô″tər
noun
The killing of a person without malice aforethought but with either the intention to commit an unlawful act that leads to an unintended death,
or with an otherwise murderous intent that is extenuated by some partial defense, such as acting under the influence of an extreme emotional disturbance occasioned by a substantial provocation on the part of the victim.
The killing of a human being by a human being, or of men by men; homicide; human slaughter.
Specifically—2. In law, the unlawful killing of another without malice either express or implied, which may be either voluntarily, upon a sudden heat, or involuntarily, but in the commission of some unlawful act. Blackstone.
Well under that definition whatever the charges for manslaughter apply. According to the CPS I think 12 years custody. Not sure what 'custody' refers to, possibly prison:
www.cps.gov.uk/.../homicide-murder-and-manslaughter
The point is legally it's a manslaughter case due to extreme negligence. The patient was under her care and she killed them. It wasn't intended killing (murder) but still serious.
I actually researched the legal definitions to see what the usual legal outcome could be since I'm not legally trained and didn't want to rely on guesswork. You know how research works, right? It's not "this is correct because I said so". I have to do a fair bit of research for my Masters.
@Echosoul I know that you can't get a law school degree by using Google for 20 minutes. And we live in a Democracy where we can criticize unjust laws. I am criticizing our justice system.
I never claimed any laws in my original statement and I still haven't cited any laws. I'm pointing out that our justice system is screwed up.
Again I will help define your situation:
e·tard
verb
/riˈtärd/
delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.
"our progress was retarded by unforeseen difficulties"
I understand it was a accident but she has to be punished nevertheless, in prison for at least 2 to 3 years and probation.
I almost had that happen to me years ago. some dumb bitch nurse tried giving me the wrong medication that would of caused me to go into seizures. I found out what medicine she was going to inject me with and stopped her. The dumb bitch didn't even bother reading my medical chart to see what medicines I was allergic to
as someone who's been in the victim's position throw the bitch's ass behind bars for the rest of her life. she was careless and didn't give a shit and didn't bother taking a few minutes to read a patient's medical chart. When i was in that situation I reported the dumb bitch to the charge nurse who didn't give a shit. throw her ass behind bars for the rest of her life
if that dumb bitch had injected me with the wrong medicine my body would had gone into seizures. lucky for me i stopped her before it was to late. the fucking ironic part is she even admitted to the other nurses at the desk she didn't bother to read my medical charts
let her ass rot behind bars for what she did
If someone accidentally damages or destroys your property, they're still responsible. It was an avoidable mistake that cost someone their life.
She has to live with the guilt, and there was no apparent motive or intent. Probation for 5 years or so.
This is what happens when you fire so many of your nurses for refusing to take an experimental vaccine. The ones who are left are overworked and fatigued and overwhelmed. Mistakes like this are inevitable.
It's not experimental. It's a tried and tested method and it's been through the trials. Having unvaccinated nurses interacting with covid patients and/or other patients and colleagues endangers the latter. They're dealing with vulnerable patients while being likely to spread the virus to them and kill them. They're unfit for this role.
No different then the government doing it on purposes with vaccinations and killing millions of people.
That's legal genocide to them
Not jail but i sure hope they don't let her treat critical patients anymore. You'll kill someone in ER sooner or later. Just a matter of time till you make a mistake.
I don't think jail time is appropriate, but she should be barred from working in any medical or life safety context.
If she'd attempted to hide the mistake then jail time would be in order.
Accidents happen. Adequate staffing prevents a lot of them.
I don’t know the details of the case, but it seems a bit much to charge her with that for simply giving the wrong medication.
Jail time. She got the degree, she's supposed to be a trusted surgeon and she's paid highly. Yes people can make mistakes but mistakes comes with consequences
But the people who cause them go scott free. The bosses go home at night and nurses have to work 60 70 hr week s make a mistake working 60 to 70hrs and get jail time because of being forced to work. Prime example Gov Cuomo murdered 15,000 nursing home residents that we know of probably more like 25,00 and grabbing females at work and what did he get a slap on the wrist I doubt she had the time to take selfies but may have taken a chance to picture working conditions since visitors were not allowed in to see the squalor and filth and the nurses and help working with out personal protective equipment
Then I think those governments should be jailed too. With great power comes with great responsibility
When doctors do jail time for screwing up, I am just surprised it doesn't happen a lot nurses are over worked and undershaft just so hospitals can make more money for the stock holders and ceo
Depends on the situation. How negligent was it? She lost her license probably so she won’t be practicing anymore. Jail time would need to be GROSS negligence or intentional harm.
Mistakes happen, and locking people up is not always the answer. She should definitely lose her job and the hospital should have to pay compensation to the family for the Medical Error. The family should get a Medical Settlement in court.
Jail time won't fix the mistake and assuming she is fired she is no threat to tge public... Jail time would be a needles burden on the tax payer.
Had a man done this you can bet his ass would get jail time.
Yes she should go to jail. From that angle she looks psychopathic too. Just saying, this probably wasn't even an accident.
@OddBeMe She deserves to be in prison for life after killing a patient by injecting the wrong drug. Such mistake is unforgivable in the medical field.
The problem is that nurses are held liable in these situations whereas doctors and hospitals are often left unaccountable.
It's manslaughter. They didn't intentionally murder the patient but their behaviour was responsible.
Funny how she played like the entire case was a nuance to her but she still got no jail time.
I don't think anyone should do jail time for making an honest mistake.
Jail time. I don’t care if it was a mistake, you still killed somebody when it was preventable
I mean putting her in jail with other criminals won’t solve anything
I don't care if you are the President of United States we all make mistakes
She should at least do some community service work.
what a shit judge for not holding her accountable
I agree. No jail time.
Yes, it's her responsibility
Throw the book at here
Look how men are much more empathetic than women.
she should be "accidentally" injected with bleach.
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