*Yawns, stretches, and decides to respond after having been silent for over a year.*
I looked through all the replies and didn't fully see my thoughts on the matter, so I decided to respond.When I was in college, I took a psychology class. In it there was a brief discussion that relates to this. Long before this became such a hot button issue.
Male and Female are biological terms defining a person with XY and XX chromosomes respectively. Female and Male are your "sex". These are the scientific terms. This is the science! If you are born with XY chromosomes you have certain biological characteristics that will differentiate you from a person born with XX chromosomes.
Man and Woman are not your biological sex. They are gender terms. Gender is NOT your sex. A gender is a society based word that relates to specific qualities associated with a person.
To call a person a wo/man you are saying the person has the qualities assigned to a wo/man. You are not saying this person is fe/male.
There is a person who loves to watch football, loves to go hunting, drives a big truck, and enjoys action movies. Such a manly person!
Am I describing John (male) or Sally (female)?
I'm going to guess many of you, even if it was only for a minute initially, assumed I was talking about John. But who says? Society! These are qualities and things we associate with a man. (Yes, I was using stereotypes and archetypes.) Because males generally are the ones who have these qualities we associate men with males. The same idea goes with "boys play with GI-Joe" and "girls play with Barbie". However, if we grew up in a society where females were the hunters and played with GI-Jane then suddenly the qualities associated with a "man" are not also associated with a male!
We make these generalizations and assign the society defined gender to the biological sex. We do this because it's simple. We want an easy way to classify someone into a category.
But a male may enjoy things more associated with a woman. We may call these males something like "girly man". A female who may like things more associated with a man will be called a tomboy.
A person can define themselves however s/he wishes when it comes to gender. But when it comes to biology, your chromosomes define you.
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Trans people are real and have a real condition, but saying “real men and women” is technically wrong a real man has a penis and testicles, he can also make sperm,
A real woman has ovaries and makes eggs and has periods, trans people do not,
A trans person has to have hormones to make them either a man or a woman a real man or woman does not, so technically trans people are not real men and woman.
I don’t have a problem with trans people as I don’t have a problem with gay, bi or lesbian people either, as long as you’re not hurting anyone and as long as you are happy then that’s all that matters.
There is already research out there proving that whether or not you believe in transgenderism, it is a real phenomenon and it is not simply mental but also physiological, our bodies are more than our genitals.
A research was conducted on a difference in brain anatomy between men and women and how it is relevant to transsexuals. There is a certain neurotransmitter that men have twice as much as women and it can be used to determine someone's sex just by their brain anatomy. The research showed that transsexuals had that oarticular neurotransmitter not similar to the gender assigned at their birth but the gender that they insisted that they were their whole lives. For control they did the research on both transgender people who went through medical transition and people who did not go through medical transition and both had the brain anatomy of the gender that they identified as. Another control they had were cis men who were getting similar feminizing hormone treatments that trans women get, but not to transition as women but rather for cancer treatment and their brain anatomy were the same as the gender they were assigned at birth. Undeniable proof that this difference in brain anatomy had nothing to do with hormonal treatments.
Another research was done on men who got their penises removed due to penile cancer, and about 60% of them experienced having a phantom penis like how many amputated individuals experience a phantom limb. The rate of phantom penile sensation in transgender women who got their penises removed is 0%. I have personally heard from not a trans woman, but an asexual man, so already clear that he doesn't fap and finds sexual acts gross and doesn't understand them, he feels weird to touch his penis even when he goes to pee. If that's how it can feel just being a straight asexual man (so he still wants a romantic relationship with women just not sex), you can imagine the severity in trans people.
This is 100% biology.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/8QScpDGqwsQ
It is a game of semantics… By using the words trans-woman & trans-man, you yourself are delineating a boundary between biological men and women and trans-men and trans-women. I have a best friend who happens to be trans, and she would tell you she’s not a woman, she’s a trans-woman! Blaire White is a perfect example of this (although as a liberal, I disagree with her politics) I also wish she would stick to trans issues, or at the very least avoid politics. But it’s her YouTube channel, and she has a right to say whatever she wants! But she transitioned from man to woman, and while I believe that “real” is a loaded moniker, she certainly is not deluded enough to believe that she is a “woman” she’s a trans-woman, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think that the whole “trans women are real women“ slogan is indicative of trans self hatred. I know firsthand what a boy goes through when he comes out as trans, and by extension what a trans woman goes through during her transition, because when it comes to my best friend, I was there right from the beginning, back when she was a boy. Trans. Men and women go through SO MUCH, and have to deal with so much bullshit that I applaud them just for that! I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a trans woman, or a trans man, and I actually believe that the “are trans women real women“ debate does more harm than good. For people not in the LGBTQ community and who are not allies, that statement is absurd to them. It’s continuation only serves to further widen the chasm between trans individuals in the cis gendered community. Trans women are trans-women and if a person is a trans-woman then they are incredibly brave. I don’t think that’s anything to be ashamed of, therefore, I don’t see any need to diminish that bravery by equating trans women to biologically born women.
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No, a M to F trans has XY chormosomes in every cell of his body. A F to M trans has XX chromosomes in every cell of her body.
If I think I'm an eagle and I get feathers grafted into my skin, that doesn't make me an eagle.
@miniskirtcaley81 - then you support the unethical, moralless, and all around disgusting cheating done by transwomen in competitive sports. Because when born a man with testosterone and suddenly decide you're a "woman" you're a good for nothing scummy cheater when you join into competitive sports because you have an automatic advantage.
Just like steroid using, etc and that's considered scummy cheating & banned. In fact steroid use is so banned in countries someone found using it CAN'T COMPETE FOR LIFE
So why are transwomen allowed to compete when they're CHEATERS?
They can view themselves as whatever they want, and that's no problem for me. But it becomes a problem when they try to force me to accept something other than reality. A man, cannot have a baby, a woman can. This debate is always silly because we are trying to change a definition that is based exclusively on human biology. Identify as whatever you want to identify as, that's fine, but you shouldn't be able to compete against women in women's sports as a man. Nor should you be able to walk into the public women's bathroom that my daughter uses, and no one is going to convince me that I should be ok with any of that. Be what you want to be, but keep it to yourself. That's how we maintain the peace.
Let's define real.
They might dress like a man or a woman, so their clothing can be real.
They might look like a man or woman, so in that sense their looks can be real.
They might have breasts or genitals of their new gender, so those genitals would now be real.
In the sense that they have selected their new identity, that can be real.
Their chromosomes, however, haven't been (and can't be) changed. So from that biological perspective they are not different; they are not the real chosen gender.
I'd say also that although you can add or suppress hormones to bring about changes in physical characteristics, you're not actually permanently changing those, you're forcing an alteration in them and in that sense it's not real.
None of this is judgement of trans people, merely some objective observations of some of the factors that make up a person and what's real and not.
This is tough one to answer, because Trans people are a real thing... but they are what they were born as. Which is a man or women, trapped in a mans or women's body. And apparently that's super tough to deal with, even though people have been dealing with it for thousands of years.
I mean I self-identify as a millionaire, who is forced to live on a 110K annual salary budget... and that is super tough for me to deal with. So, I guess I get it on some level, but the truth is that I am not really a millionaire and that the gods honest truth, and I do not even make close to enough money to pull off pretending that I am millionaire very convincingly. Even when I try nobody seems to believe that I am a millionaire, even though I am not, but they should at least entertain that I could be and give me the benefit of the doubt. But they don't, because eventually I have to really show them the money and I can't and that sucks because the truth really hits home, and that hurts.
I think this is just the wrong conversation to have. I don't know why there's so much fixation on whether or not these people's gender identities are real.
It should be more about how as a society we move forward with these new concepts and in what capacity we should consider them when doing things that affect these people.
What matters is that these are real people. Regardless of how legitimate or illegitimate you think their views of themselves are, we should at least be willing to treat everyone as humans with respect.
If they were, they would be called women & men. Not trans men/trans women.
I have no hate in my heart toward trans people, as long as that individual isn't manipulating straight men into gay sex (rape), just because they feel like they are a woman... they aren't, they are not entitled to other people, they don't get to decide someone's preferences for them, and they don't get a free pass to be a terrible person.
If anything, I feel like pretending that they are real men and women is just dismissing the real issues that trans people go through. Issues that biological men and women will never have to deal with.I think this debate is ridiculous. If I call myself a dog, am I a dog? If I’m black and bleach my skin am I white? The answer to both is “No” and the same goes for trans people. The fact that we have to say “trans” before women or men makes them not women or men. Cmon people let’s stop trying to ignore science. When that person dies and they dig them up and test their bone structure etc, these Trans women will be categorized as men and vice versa for trans men. If you are a man and want to be a woman, ok but you are not a woman. And if you are a woman and want to be a man, cool but you are not a man. Let’s be serious people.
The problem with the sentence here is 'real'.
Cis women are Biological Females.
Cis Men are Biological Males.
Trans Women are Biological Males that desire to live and be viewed as Women.
Trans Men are Biological Females that desire to live and be viewed as Men.
While biology cannot be changed it is important to remember that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness with the only closest treatment being is to live as their desired Gender.
People should in the least show basic respect even if they disagree.
No they’re not because trans people don’t exist there’s people with gender dysphoria there’s little children who have been groomed into an idea for trans people that works at a man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man and woman cannot get I guy pregnant Woman can I get another woman pregnant one men can get a women pregnant and only a women can breast feed. It’s called gender dysphoria it’s a mental illness men with general dysphoria are not women and women with gender dysphoria or not men
They are real as a real living person
But for the gender thing, I couldn't tell you. I can't give you a clear yes and no answer.
To me that's a Gray Area
I kinda understand parts of it, but not fully.
See speaking for myself I fall into that gray area. I guess today's term would be Gender Fluid, I call it Gender Fucked in a hand bag. Yes Gender Fuck is a legal term for gender fluid back in the day.
Let me explain this a little more.
I wear ladies clothing 24/7, but live , look, and act like a man. I perfectly blend both genders together. I guess you can say I am a real live Tomboy
No, we're (as a society) aren't technologically advanced enough to properly help people switch genders. We're already having a hard time figuring out who is actually trans and who will end up detransing after a few years.
It's a mental illness without a cure yet.
ALL a matter of HOW you define 'real'... kinda like people who REALLY invest themselves in 'cosplay' 24/7!
They CHOOSE to 'live' their Persona and expect to be related to AS their character as a 'method' actor. 'Reality' hits when they DON'T get to pick & choose to experience ONLY the benefits of the role but ALSO the its handicaps and drawbacks~A "trans woman" is a man with psychological problems. And thanks to today's delusions, he doesn't even need to be taking hormones or have undergone maiming surgery cutting off his genitals, he merely needs to decide he's a woman and somehow other people are supposed to respect his madness and treat it as reality.
This is on par with a crazy person shouting "the government is tracking me through my teeth!" And everyone else somehow being required to agree "Yes they are."
Not unless they are part of the under 0.5% of the population whose physical presentation does not match their genetic code.
The number of "gender dysphoria" suicides doesn't drop post surgical reassignment. If it were as simple as that the rate should drop to no higher than the rest of the population. It doesn't.
These people need our love and support, but very rarely do they need surgical intervention for what is over 99% of the time actually a psychiatric disorder not a physical one."Real men/women" is an oxymoron because its not actually something that exist in reality. We invented the terms and ideas of genders to explain something which we now know through studying biology is an order of magnitude more complicated and could never be simplified into the basic classifications of just "man" and "woman". Hence this is a silly conversation for silly people.
No. It's a lot of different complicated emotions and mental health issues that can cause someone to do that. My dad went trans at age 40 after spending most of his life being extremely religious. I've studied what causes a person to feel that way. Its usually a dislike towards how their body looks, fetishes, and feeling rejected/isolated/alone/powerless.
:)...
So anyways, tomorrow is the last day I'll be here because I'll be working on the weekend and through the week will be my first day of working at a plant at a cleaner. It's not the best job I just need a start somewhere out of this city. And that right there will do it. Help me pay for rent, my food, clothes aaand with the little bit i got, get my business started again. I feel like my life is finally getting brighter, hardships and all.
Poorly worded poll. Clearly trans people exist. But having a mental disorder does not physically change you or reality. This aggressive push to invalidate everyone else’s preferences and opinions is doing irreparable harm to an already fractured lgbt community.
It is incredibly disheartening to see names I recognize sharing these opinions that trans people don't deserve to live as themselves just because they weren't born that way.
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