Are trans women and trans men real women & men? 🏳️‍⚧️?

[miniskirtcaley81]

As the friend of a trans woman, and the cousin of a trans man, I 100% view them as real women and men.

Trans Women & Men are real women and men.

No trans people are not real.

[Anonymous]

*Yawns, stretches, and decides to respond after having been silent for over a year.*

I looked through all the replies and didn't fully see my thoughts on the matter, so I decided to respond.

When I was in college, I took a psychology class. In it there was a brief discussion that relates to this. Long before this became such a hot button issue.

Male and Female are biological terms defining a person with XY and XX chromosomes respectively. Female and Male are your "sex". These are the scientific terms. This is the science! If you are born with XY chromosomes you have certain biological characteristics that will differentiate you from a person born with XX chromosomes.

Man and Woman are not your biological sex. They are gender terms. Gender is NOT your sex. A gender is a society based word that relates to specific qualities associated with a person.

To call a person a wo/man you are saying the person has the qualities assigned to a wo/man. You are not saying this person is fe/male.

There is a person who loves to watch football, loves to go hunting, drives a big truck, and enjoys action movies. Such a manly person!

Am I describing John (male) or Sally (female)?

I'm going to guess many of you, even if it was only for a minute initially, assumed I was talking about John. But who says? Society! These are qualities and things we associate with a man. (Yes, I was using stereotypes and archetypes.) Because males generally are the ones who have these qualities we associate men with males. The same idea goes with "boys play with GI-Joe" and "girls play with Barbie". However, if we grew up in a society where females were the hunters and played with GI-Jane then suddenly the qualities associated with a "man" are not also associated with a male!

We make these generalizations and assign the society defined gender to the biological sex. We do this because it's simple. We want an easy way to classify someone into a category.

But a male may enjoy things more associated with a woman. We may call these males something like "girly man". A female who may like things more associated with a man will be called a tomboy.

A person can define themselves however s/he wishes when it comes to gender. But when it comes to biology, your chromosomes define you.

[Lalalove11]

Sex influences gender. I've seen it in my youngest nephews who have not yet been indoctrinated by society.

[Mimi_loves_her]

It’s not a girly man if a man that still goes by male pronouns like he/him acts more feminine and looks more feminine it’s called a femboy and it’s the opposite for girls if a girl act and looks more masculine and goes by she/her then they call the female a Tomboy

[CubsterShura]

@Lalalove11 you will be surprised how early babies catch on to social cues. You may think they aren't affected at all but they are.

[connemara_crocodile]

As species we evolved into our gender roles based on our sex attributes, and the same pattern repeats in most (not all) mammals.

It's not men that like hunting, it's males. If we decide as a man that we prefer to stay at home and take care of the kids, that is completely alright, but THAT is a social construct. Is a change to our biology that we can afford because we evolved.

Is it wrong? Of course not! But is it natural? No, it's not more natural than using tools for our daily activities, or wearing a condom to have sex just for pleasure.

The social construct is to classify ourselves as whatever way we want, not the other way around.

[Opinion Owner]

The societal construct of gender was determined based on the behaviors of the sex, yes. But the sex itself does not define the gender. And yes, some of the things we do are things that we've evolved into. Generally speaking males are the stronger of the two sexes. Thus males would do things that involved strength - like hunting and protecting others from dangers. The problem is we then associated males with hunting and protecting others from dangers and NOT those that are stronger with hunting and protecting others from danger. This associated was cemented when we then associated the gender of man with males and brought along hunting and protection. This is, however, doing a disservice to males who are not strong. There are many men in the world that are not all that strong. They would not make good hunters or protectors. They are more brains and thinkers than muscles and strength. They are not any less male than anyone else with an XY pair of chromosomes.

[Opinion Owner]

It is not males who like hunting. There are many females who enjoy hunting. We as a society have simply classified that men who we associate with as males like hunting. Thus the social construct is dictating men go out and work and not stay home with the kids.

Why, however, should a male that can hit the broad side of a barn from 2 feet away with a shotgun be told to go out and hunt when he's married to a female who can shot a flee of the back of a dog using a BB gun from 100ft away?

[Opinion Owner]

Inference to babies and children. They pick up on the things a round them, yes. Thus, if a baby was in a family where the mother went out and worked and the father stay home and took care of the kids it would grow up thinking this was how it worked until/unless it was exposed to something to indicate otherwise. And if all we do as a society is tell boys they need to grow up to be the way we've defined men and girls need to go up to be the way society has defined women, we will have conflicts with people who are male but don't fit into the societal definition of man and females who won't fit into the definition of woman.

[Opinion Owner]

can't hit*

[xColinx]

@connemara_crocodile i'm just observing/reading here, and appreciate the civil discussion between you the the original poster. one thing i'll toss into the discussion - isn't it interesting that in most other species the female is more dominant than the male?

[xColinx]

@connemara_crocodile and if we spin the topic in another direction, why are men overwhelmingly more likely to commit violent/physical assault in society at large? There are plenty of women *physically* capable of carrying out similar violent assaults on others, the same (and better) than the weak (physically & mentally) men who carry out the crimes, so why are violent crimes so tilted in one direction? That's another obvious societal derivative.

[connemara_crocodile]

Sorry, I used the wrong verb there. Makes don't "like" hunting, but feel the need for it.
The same way females feel the need to protect their children.

Both activities require strength, so this has nothing to do with how strong a sex is. This has to do with genetics.
How is it that in the animal kingdom every tiger mun knows how to carry their pup by their neck and not their tail?
How is it that all birds of the same species build their nest in the same way?

Certain things are built in in our genetics based on species and sex.

Look at primates, you can clearly differentiate the males from the females based on what they do.

And again, this has nothing to do with how strong or violent an individual is. Yes, there are females that are stronger than men, but that doesn't change genetics.

If you study primitive history (not just saying, I really had to for college) you'll see that the homo sapiens, same as their predecessors and cousins (neanderthals) and many of the different animals, took their role based on their sex. That's just the way it is with nature.

Again, we can change that now that we evolved, it's one of the many luxuries that we earned. But we're born our sexes.

[Opinion Owner]

@connemara_crocodile
Oh we are indeed born our sexes. But to classify everyone who is a specific sex the same way is a means to simplify things so we don't have to work as hard to classify people. Our genes/DNA certainly play a part in who we are and what we do. So yes, there are things that are packaged with our sex that do determine rolls and what one may or may not be good at.

The animal kingdom has many fascinating distinctions in behavior when you dig into it. Male Penguins will sit on the egg until it hatches. Female lions are much more active in things than male lions.

In regards to the violence, it may be part of the societal construct. Though one has to also notice that mothers who feel their children are threaten can become more violent.

The issue is though when you get away from sex and move toward gender. The key is that gender is not the same as sex. While sex has definitely played a role in how we characterize a gender, the two are not one and the same. A gender is more a social connotation of a set of behaviors, qualities, specific interests and likes, etc. that is used to categorize an individual into a generic simplification based on others.

A person can behave a particular way and change his/her appearance, but the genetic makeup of either XY or XX chromosomes can't be changed. So in terms of the original question who is a "real man" and a "real woman" is in relation to a gender.

[TheVigilantFox]

Trans people are real and have a real condition, but saying “real men and women” is technically wrong a real man has a penis and testicles, he can also make sperm,


A real woman has ovaries and makes eggs and has periods, trans people do not,


A trans person has to have hormones to make them either a man or a woman a real man or woman does not, so technically trans people are not real men and woman.


I don’t have a problem with trans people as I don’t have a problem with gay, bi or lesbian people either, as long as you’re not hurting anyone and as long as you are happy then that’s all that matters.

[CubsterShura]

There is already research out there proving that whether or not you believe in transgenderism, it is a real phenomenon and it is not simply mental but also physiological, our bodies are more than our genitals.

A research was conducted on a difference in brain anatomy between men and women and how it is relevant to transsexuals. There is a certain neurotransmitter that men have twice as much as women and it can be used to determine someone's sex just by their brain anatomy. The research showed that transsexuals had that oarticular neurotransmitter not similar to the gender assigned at their birth but the gender that they insisted that they were their whole lives. For control they did the research on both transgender people who went through medical transition and people who did not go through medical transition and both had the brain anatomy of the gender that they identified as. Another control they had were cis men who were getting similar feminizing hormone treatments that trans women get, but not to transition as women but rather for cancer treatment and their brain anatomy were the same as the gender they were assigned at birth. Undeniable proof that this difference in brain anatomy had nothing to do with hormonal treatments.

Another research was done on men who got their penises removed due to penile cancer, and about 60% of them experienced having a phantom penis like how many amputated individuals experience a phantom limb. The rate of phantom penile sensation in transgender women who got their penises removed is 0%. I have personally heard from not a trans woman, but an asexual man, so already clear that he doesn't fap and finds sexual acts gross and doesn't understand them, he feels weird to touch his penis even when he goes to pee. If that's how it can feel just being a straight asexual man (so he still wants a romantic relationship with women just not sex), you can imagine the severity in trans people.

This is 100% biology.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/8QScpDGqwsQ

[CrazyGirl2]

It is a game of semantics… By using the words trans-woman & trans-man, you yourself are delineating a boundary between biological men and women and trans-men and trans-women. I have a best friend who happens to be trans, and she would tell you she’s not a woman, she’s a trans-woman! Blaire White is a perfect example of this (although as a liberal, I disagree with her politics) I also wish she would stick to trans issues, or at the very least avoid politics. But it’s her YouTube channel, and she has a right to say whatever she wants! But she transitioned from man to woman, and while I believe that “real” is a loaded moniker, she certainly is not deluded enough to believe that she is a “woman” she’s a trans-woman, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think that the whole “trans women are real women“ slogan is indicative of trans self hatred. I know firsthand what a boy goes through when he comes out as trans, and by extension what a trans woman goes through during her transition, because when it comes to my best friend, I was there right from the beginning, back when she was a boy. Trans. Men and women go through SO MUCH, and have to deal with so much bullshit that I applaud them just for that! I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a trans woman, or a trans man, and I actually believe that the “are trans women real women“ debate does more harm than good. For people not in the LGBTQ community and who are not allies, that statement is absurd to them. It’s continuation only serves to further widen the chasm between trans individuals in the cis gendered community. Trans women are trans-women and if a person is a trans-woman then they are incredibly brave. I don’t think that’s anything to be ashamed of, therefore, I don’t see any need to diminish that bravery by equating trans women to biologically born women.

[OlderAndWiser]

No, a M to F trans has XY chormosomes in every cell of his body. A F to M trans has XX chromosomes in every cell of her body.

If I think I'm an eagle and I get feathers grafted into my skin, that doesn't make me an eagle.

[snowboarder720]

Chromosomes don’t make the persons gender which is needed for any person.

[OlderAndWiser]

@snowboarder720 Gender is a biological necessity?

[BlackBeauty90]

@miniskirtcaley81 - then you support the unethical, moralless, and all around disgusting cheating done by transwomen in competitive sports. Because when born a man with testosterone and suddenly decide you're a "woman" you're a good for nothing scummy cheater when you join into competitive sports because you have an automatic advantage.

Just like steroid using, etc and that's considered scummy cheating & banned. In fact steroid use is so banned in countries someone found using it CAN'T COMPETE FOR LIFE

So why are transwomen allowed to compete when they're CHEATERS?

[Pegases]

They can view themselves as whatever they want, and that's no problem for me. But it becomes a problem when they try to force me to accept something other than reality. A man, cannot have a baby, a woman can. This debate is always silly because we are trying to change a definition that is based exclusively on human biology. Identify as whatever you want to identify as, that's fine, but you shouldn't be able to compete against women in women's sports as a man. Nor should you be able to walk into the public women's bathroom that my daughter uses, and no one is going to convince me that I should be ok with any of that. Be what you want to be, but keep it to yourself. That's how we maintain the peace.

[SnowedIn]

Let's define real.

They might dress like a man or a woman, so their clothing can be real.

They might look like a man or woman, so in that sense their looks can be real.

They might have breasts or genitals of their new gender, so those genitals would now be real.

In the sense that they have selected their new identity, that can be real.

Their chromosomes, however, haven't been (and can't be) changed. So from that biological perspective they are not different; they are not the real chosen gender.

I'd say also that although you can add or suppress hormones to bring about changes in physical characteristics, you're not actually permanently changing those, you're forcing an alteration in them and in that sense it's not real.

None of this is judgement of trans people, merely some objective observations of some of the factors that make up a person and what's real and not.

[DaveJord]

This is tough one to answer, because Trans people are a real thing... but they are what they were born as. Which is a man or women, trapped in a mans or women's body. And apparently that's super tough to deal with, even though people have been dealing with it for thousands of years.

I mean I self-identify as a millionaire, who is forced to live on a 110K annual salary budget... and that is super tough for me to deal with. So, I guess I get it on some level, but the truth is that I am not really a millionaire and that the gods honest truth, and I do not even make close to enough money to pull off pretending that I am millionaire very convincingly. Even when I try nobody seems to believe that I am a millionaire, even though I am not, but they should at least entertain that I could be and give me the benefit of the doubt. But they don't, because eventually I have to really show them the money and I can't and that sucks because the truth really hits home, and that hurts.

[LadyKitty]

The problem with the sentence here is 'real'.

Cis women are Biological Females.

Cis Men are Biological Males.

Trans Women are Biological Males that desire to live and be viewed as Women.

Trans Men are Biological Females that desire to live and be viewed as Men.

While biology cannot be changed it is important to remember that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness with the only closest treatment being is to live as their desired Gender.

People should in the least show basic respect even if they disagree.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

I think this is just the wrong conversation to have. I don't know why there's so much fixation on whether or not these people's gender identities are real.

It should be more about how as a society we move forward with these new concepts and in what capacity we should consider them when doing things that affect these people.

What matters is that these are real people. Regardless of how legitimate or illegitimate you think their views of themselves are, we should at least be willing to treat everyone as humans with respect.

[Anonymous]

I think this debate is ridiculous. If I call myself a dog, am I a dog? If I’m black and bleach my skin am I white? The answer to both is “No” and the same goes for trans people. The fact that we have to say “trans” before women or men makes them not women or men. Cmon people let’s stop trying to ignore science. When that person dies and they dig them up and test their bone structure etc, these Trans women will be categorized as men and vice versa for trans men. If you are a man and want to be a woman, ok but you are not a woman. And if you are a woman and want to be a man, cool but you are not a man. Let’s be serious people.

[Breanna_nonbinary]

Funny. Just because you think you’re smart doesn’t make it so. I’m sure you can identify as a smart person but I’m sure there’s always going to be someone there to prove you wrong and make you feel as stupid as you are.

[Cassie88]

@Breanna_nonbinary Of course, because insults always convince the undecided that you're right (eyeroll and a thousand facepalms).

[KostasKouvalis]

That's what happened with Kazimierz Polaski. The archaeologists were so confused, because they were like, "Why the fuck are there female bones in the grave of a male?"

[Breanna_nonbinary]

@Cassie88 I play it like I see it. If someone is going to be small minded and be insulting to me then I’m fine with playing that game. What bothers me most is when people hate other for no reason that to just hate. It’s not like trans people interfere with his life but he’s he’s going out of his way. Unless of course the problem is that he hates himself for liking transgender people. Seems like the biggest haters really just hate themselves.
Also my comment was never to convince them but to insult. Or wasn’t that clear? And yet the point I made was very convincing and very insulting. So I’m 2 for 2. ✌️

[Opinion Owner]

@Breanna_nonbinary who are you talking about? Me? I went out of my way? Who did I insult. Who hated. I stated facts. You went out of your way to try to insult and failed. Lol.

[Stoner710]

No they’re not because trans people don’t exist there’s people with gender dysphoria there’s little children who have been groomed into an idea for trans people that works at a man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man and woman cannot get I guy pregnant Woman can I get another woman pregnant one men can get a women pregnant and only a women can breast feed. It’s called gender dysphoria it’s a mental illness men with general dysphoria are not women and women with gender dysphoria or not men

[Anonymous]

If they were, they would be called women & men. Not trans men/trans women.

I have no hate in my heart toward trans people, as long as that individual isn't manipulating straight men into gay sex (rape), just because they feel like they are a woman... they aren't, they are not entitled to other people, they don't get to decide someone's preferences for them, and they don't get a free pass to be a terrible person.

If anything, I feel like pretending that they are real men and women is just dismissing the real issues that trans people go through. Issues that biological men and women will never have to deal with.

[humanearth]

They are real as a real living person

But for the gender thing, I couldn't tell you. I can't give you a clear yes and no answer.

To me that's a Gray Area

I kinda understand parts of it, but not fully.

See speaking for myself I fall into that gray area. I guess today's term would be Gender Fluid, I call it Gender Fucked in a hand bag. Yes Gender Fuck is a legal term for gender fluid back in the day.

Let me explain this a little more.

I wear ladies clothing 24/7, but live , look, and act like a man. I perfectly blend both genders together. I guess you can say I am a real live Tomboy

[Msputiton]

See it's confusing because people over complicate things because they have anger towards someone thinking differently than they do.

Biological sex is what sex you are born. Which can not be changed.

Gender is literally what that person identifies as.
Back before it was fully understood.
The term used was transsexual. Which is inaccurate.

Transgender now being used. Which is accurate.
Because they didn't change their biological sex, they changed their gender.

It is nothing more than someone deciding they do not feel comfortable or love themselves as the gender they are born. So their preference is to choose to identify as another gender.

They are choosing to follow what is in their hearts

[humanearth]

@Msputiton I think the term Gender Fuck makes a lot more sence.

Right away you know what it means

[letuswaltzforthedead]

No, we're (as a society) aren't technologically advanced enough to properly help people switch genders. We're already having a hard time figuring out who is actually trans and who will end up detransing after a few years.

It's a mental illness without a cure yet.

[TheorionMage]

ALL a matter of HOW you define 'real'... kinda like people who REALLY invest themselves in 'cosplay' 24/7!

They CHOOSE to 'live' their Persona and expect to be related to AS their character as a 'method' actor. 'Reality' hits when they DON'T get to pick & choose to experience ONLY the benefits of the role but ALSO the its handicaps and drawbacks~

[RationalMale]

A "trans woman" is a man with psychological problems. And thanks to today's delusions, he doesn't even need to be taking hormones or have undergone maiming surgery cutting off his genitals, he merely needs to decide he's a woman and somehow other people are supposed to respect his madness and treat it as reality.

This is on par with a crazy person shouting "the government is tracking me through my teeth!" And everyone else somehow being required to agree "Yes they are."

[Anonymous]

Not unless they are part of the under 0.5% of the population whose physical presentation does not match their genetic code.

The number of "gender dysphoria" suicides doesn't drop post surgical reassignment. If it were as simple as that the rate should drop to no higher than the rest of the population. It doesn't.

These people need our love and support, but very rarely do they need surgical intervention for what is over 99% of the time actually a psychiatric disorder not a physical one.

[Soteris]

"Real men/women" is an oxymoron because its not actually something that exist in reality. We invented the terms and ideas of genders to explain something which we now know through studying biology is an order of magnitude more complicated and could never be simplified into the basic classifications of just "man" and "woman". Hence this is a silly conversation for silly people.

[joeldalton]

Why am I not surprised you don't know what a man is.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Oh really then? Why dont you TELL me what a man is. I must warn you though, many men braver than you have tried but yet to this day there is not a single definition that holds scientific weight.

[joeldalton]

lmao. A man is a human adult male who has XY sex chromosomes and under normal circumstances produces sperm in his testicles for reproduction purposes.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton What of a person who only has a Y chromosome then?

[joeldalton]

I explained the definition. It is the correct definition. You don't go "what about someone with one arm?" if I said "human beings have two arms" The exceptions do not define the rule.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Its not the correct definition. If you defined a human with 4 arms then losing an arm would mean you are no longer human by that definition. In other words, the definition in question is stupid. Try again.

[joeldalton]

@soter

[joeldalton]

@Soteris there's no need to try again. A mutation doesn't invalidate the norm.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton... The fuck are you on about? The XY Chromosome itself IS a mutation. That is how evolution works and the process that created the XY Chromosome. Furthermore, it completely invalidates your definition because it does not conform with it and therefore highlights a flaw in your definition for it to be unable to represent reality.

In other words, your definition of a "man" exists only in your fantasy so dream on.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris you really are a retard. Would you describe humans as an aquatic species with gills, too since that at one point was the case?

[Soteris]

@joeldalton You are the one trying to DEFINE reality with your definition. To accurately "describe" what a "Man" is in real terms. If you can't do that then it means its not a reflection of reality, AKA its a made up concept AKA its not fucking real.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris I gave you the biological, accurate definition of a man. If you want to be an idiot and deny scientific truths, do so at your own peril.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton No you did not. You tried to lean on your poor understanding of biology but fell victim because your understanding of the subject is at a kindergarten level which is why you can't account for even the simplest of reality check. Again, if your definition was based in reality then it would not have any problems dealing with real world examples.

Imagine how stupid your definition of gravity was if it only worked on the surface of the earth and could not account of how gravity works in space. Your definition is just as flawed and just as funny for someone who has even the vaguest of understanding of the topic.. like me!

[joeldalton]

@Soteris You are fucking idiot. Really one of the stupidest people on this site. It’s usually funny mocking your stupidity but I’m starting to feel bad for you. This is what years of liberal educational systems do to people. It’s a shame.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton All because I poked fun at your flawed definition of what a "man" is? Shame.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris no, you’re stupid before this particular line of idiocy. You can’t even define a human being.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton What a coincidence. Species are also a social construct so yes, its fucking pointless to try draw a line where one species end and their ancestors start. That is not how evolution works. Congratulations for stumbling upon yet another one of your childish misconceptions.

[joeldalton]

@Soteris holy god you are stupid.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton No you are. But sure, lets imagine you have a species and then a new species evolved from it. How would that look like? Would you suddenly go from the parents to their children being completely different? Do you really think that is how evolution works?

[joeldalton]

To think we’ve had billions of years of evolution and your dumb ass is the result.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Dont say that as if you have any idea how evolution works. Your basic bitch is laughable.

[joeldalton]

It’s pretty clear we’ve violated the rules of evolution to keep weak idiots like you alive.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton That is also not how evolution works but whatever. You would not understand.

[joeldalton]

It’s a social construct, just like gravity. Dumbass.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton How Ironic that the two things you actually claim are social constructs, are in fact the only two so far that is not. You got a 100% strike out record so far, its almost impressive.

[joeldalton]

Bless your heart.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton I think you need an exorcist mate.

[joeldalton]

I think you need to go back to elementary school.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Says the person who dont know basic biology or what a social construct is.

[joeldalton]

The guy who doesn’t know what a human, man or woman is claims he knows biology? Hilarious.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton I know perfectly well what a human, a man and a woman is. They are all social constructs. It is you who can't find his own ass with a man, flashlight and both hands while receiving verbal instructions.

[joeldalton]

Bahahahahahaha. Did your mommy tell you that when two social constructs love each other very much that’s how babies are made? Or are they social constructs, too? You dope.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Babies? Yepp. Social constructs. Life makes no distinctions between any given stage in human development. It simply is. It is us that insist on dividing it into "logical" parts such as fetus, baby, child, teenager, adult, elderly or whatever else. I am flabbergasted that you failed to correctly place another 50/50 decision. You would literally have better luck if you flipped a coin rather than tried to rely on your fucked up logic.

[joeldalton]

You are the stupidest person on this website. It was a tough competition but you have pulled it out. Congrats.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Not much of a claim since you fall victim to the Dunning Kruger effect. Its only natural that you would think I am stupid simply because I am way out of your league intellectually.

[joeldalton]

You aren’t out of a paper bag’s league intellectually.

[Soteris]

@joeldalton Swing and a miss illiteracy man!

[Soteris]

@Рrеgnаnt_Маn Ha Ha very funny.

[Soteris]

@Perverted_Creeр Shoo

[anon171999]

No. It's a lot of different complicated emotions and mental health issues that can cause someone to do that. My dad went trans at age 40 after spending most of his life being extremely religious. I've studied what causes a person to feel that way. Its usually a dislike towards how their body looks, fetishes, and feeling rejected/isolated/alone/powerless.

[Sour-rose]

:)...

So anyways, tomorrow is the last day I'll be here because I'll be working on the weekend and through the week will be my first day of working at a plant at a cleaner. It's not the best job I just need a start somewhere out of this city. And that right there will do it. Help me pay for rent, my food, clothes aaand with the little bit i got, get my business started again. I feel like my life is finally getting brighter, hardships and all.

[DarkWinterNights]

Poorly worded poll. Clearly trans people exist. But having a mental disorder does not physically change you or reality. This aggressive push to invalidate everyone else’s preferences and opinions is doing irreparable harm to an already fractured lgbt community.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

It is incredibly disheartening to see names I recognize sharing these opinions that trans people don't deserve to live as themselves just because they weren't born that way.

[Drumlin2001]

Dosen't bother me what people want to dress in or act like, each to their own. But I'm not even sure what people mean by what a woman is or what a man is. The spectrum for what men can be between Donald Trump and Graham Norton, is so vast and open to interpretation.
The only thing I would say is when it comes to sport where we separate by gender, it does seem that men who transition to women have an unfair advantage, I'm not sure they should be able to compete

[Grond21]

Nice little sleight of hand in your options there. Rather than stating that trans men and women are not real men and women, you just said that they are not real. Allowing you to create a straw man argument and accuse anyone who voted for that and stating that they are not real at all.

But we are used to that level of duplicity from those espousing what you believe

[Anonymous]

Yeah, of course they're real, a "trans woman" is a real man, and a "trans man" is a real woman. Trans have a real mental disorder that requires real treatment, it's not normal, and like every mentally ill, this people deserve respect, but the normalization and praise of that is fucked up and a huge stupid mistake.

[WeirdoFriendly]

When I say they aren't real, I don't mean they aren't real people. I mean (in my own belief) someone who has a penis is a man and someone who has a vagina is a woman. Doesn't matter what facial features you have or if you got breasts. If you're born with a penis, you're a male. If you're born with a vagina, you're a female.

Again, my own belief.

[Anonymous]

So you'd date a trans man if you are straight or a trans woman if your a lesbian? And if not why not?

[PainusNdeeAnus]

I did this poll 98% of them said no LMFAOAOAOAO

[Opinion Owner]

@PainusNdeeAnus lol I'd bet. It kind of sinks the bullshitters who say they believe trans women and trans men are real women & men when they wouldn't date one because they are trans

[Berethor]

A real woman can give birth, so no, it almost the same to me as girl thinking that she a cat.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/sObPHx2QMY0

[bkcutie11]

I have nothing against them they are poeple. Might even be amazing sweet people. They are the gender the were born though. They can dress up take hormones which is dangerous but if that's what they want its their body.

[Anonymous]

Biologically they are not authentic men (or women). They don't have the undercarriage nor the featureset.

I also question the changing of birth certificates - it's like revising history to me and I think governments and other institutions are going to tie themselves in knots with their virtue signalling.

However, if they present in society as their chosen sex physically, and act the role what do I care.

[Bklynbadboy12]

I'm sorry but they're not real women and men technology hasn't found a way to make a woman into a man or vice versa all technology can do is give you a permanent costume to make you look like the gender that you identify with but they'll never be real. You are what you were when you was born and that will never change

[Rosexøxø]

No they’re not they’re replicas or counterfeits. Not originals.

Lgbtq community is not an identity- it’s a personified fetish/kink.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

I would say they are. Some of those people transition to get as close to a cis man or woman as they can. Or just transition to a certain look that they're comfortable with and want.

[Miristheiss]

No.

A trans man is a woman who wants to live their life as a man.

A trans woman is a man who wants to live their life as a woman.

[jshm2]

That's like saying "a fake Gucci bag is "real" as a Gucci made bag, because I have two fakes and can't tell the difference!"

Get your head out your ass.

[Anonymous]

If they have "XY" chromosomes, they are male. If they have "XX" chromosomes, they're female.

No matter what surgeries, hormones, or pronouns they may have, nothing can change this basic biological fact.

[Massageman]

Are they "real people"? Yes, as opposed to "real seahorses" or "real coyotes", they are. With only a very minute number of genetic anomalies, humans are born either male or female.

[FootfetishistBoy]

All I want is to be respectful against trans people. If they want to be viewed as man or woman, its not my business, I should respect their pronounce. But I also believe that their partners should know before getting into relationship.

[Anonymous]

Is this a real zebra?

"I used to be a horse but now I identify as a zebra"

[FunkyMonkee]

Most often, you can't even tell. It's gotten so good that even I can't tell, and I usually know what to look for, partly because I've got several TS friends!

[VanillaSalt]

As a friend to a trans as well… no. A man is a man a woman is a woman. No amount of surgery changes that as of now sorry. Respect but still.

[jadeerinn]

In my opinion, you can change the body that you were born in but biologically, you are still the gender that you were born as.

[Guy13]

they are "real" Socially but not Biological or Scientifically.

An atheist and pro-science Trans is oxymoronic...

[Rizwan_khan]

No for me they are not real at all. Real are those who are male and female from birth that gender is real but if you change you gender through sugery that's not real you just change your whole identity.

[EmmaMary]

No I'm afraid they're not and never, ever will be either... Period.

[MidwestHeels]

I am more a woman than many cisgender women out there. Such as my personality and how I dress

[SlothySlob]

To me they are not men/women, they are trans men/women. This whole thing is like a child throwing a tantrum.

[worldscolide]

Absolutely not. At best they are someone who chose to mutilate their bodies and have a severe mental disorder.. Them expecting men and women to treat them like one of their own is ridiculous at best.

[John_Doesnt]

That ain't no woman it's a man, man!

Hate crime or hero?

[loveslongnails]

You are what your functioning reproductive system says you are in terms of male or female. Man or woman - eh, that's where all the brouhaha comes in.

[JessicaEarl]

Okay asker let me ask you this: why do you put the word “trans” in front of women

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Option B is phrased weirdly, but whatever the opposite of option A would be, that's what I'm voting for.

[summiter]

Of course they are real and everyone should respect their decisions.

[Kaneki05]

By gender yes. By sex no. It's really that simple.

[Paul_in_Indy]

Of course they are…but maybe not what they claim to be.

[CaptainSmartass]

They're not what they claim to be. In fact, you could get them done for misrepresentation. They're about as real as a £9 note.

Simples...

[AimeeKyle]

Physically, no but I would treat them respectfully and refer to them as they would like (once I knew - I’m not a mind reader and it isn’t top of mind for me).

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Is this a real horse?

Karoo

[Anonymous]

Of course not. Just like Rachel Dolezal isn't a black chick and Elizabeth Warren isn't an Indian, and George Santos isn't Jewish or a college grad or a former employee of Goldman Sachs.

This really isn't a tough concept. . .

[David_Kek]

The fact this is even a question, let along 30% said yes, just shows how prolific psychosis is in the world.

[bean2k21]

I can't believe people actually comment on this dumb crap.

[andreasderjuengere]

I once mounted a propeller on my bicycle.
It still did not fly.