In New York, Daniel Perry is charged with "2nd Degree Manslaughter".
What is Manslaughter in the Second Degree (aka "Man 2")?
Let's go to the New York State Penal Law...
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https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/125.15
SECTION 125.15
Manslaughter in the second degree
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125
§ 125.15 Manslaughter in the second degree.
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:
1. He recklessly causes the death of another person; or
3. He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.
Manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony.
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What does a Class C felony entail as punishment?
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https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/70.02
SECTION 70.02
Sentence of imprisonment for a violent felony offense
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 2, TITLE E, ARTICLE 70
...
(b) For a class C felony, the term must be at least three and one-half
years and must not exceed fifteen years, provided,
...
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Here is how one legal website summarizes it:
NY Penal Law § 125.15: Manslaughter in the second degree
If your actions result in the death of another person, even if that was not your intention you could be charged with a serious criminal offense. Under New York law there are different terms used to describe criminal offenses related to causing the death of another person. Murder is defined as killing someone with the intent to do so, while manslaughter is defined as causing someone's death without the intent to do so. Manslaughter cases involve recklessness, negligence, or heat of passion. Under New York Penal Law § 125.15 you could be prosecuted for manslaughter in the second degree if:
You recklessly cause the death of another person,
You perform an abortion on a woman and the woman dies, or
You intentionally help someone commit suicide.
According to New York Penal Law § 15.05(3), acting "recklessly" as used in the manslaughter in the second degree statute is defined as being aware that your actions present a substantial risk that someone could be killed and disregarding that risk.
...
Defenses
If you are charged with manslaughter in the second degree based on reckless behavior, then a defense to the charge would be that your actions were not reckless as defined by the statute. For example, if you can show that the death occurred as a result of an accident where no recklessness was involved, then you may have a valid defense to a manslaughter in the second charge.
Sentence
Because manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony, if you are convicted you could be sentenced to up to 15 years in state prison and be ordered to pay a substantial fine.
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Daniel Perry definitely killed Jordan Neely.
For the most part, who Jordan Neely was is irrelevant. The only thing relevant with Neely was if he was an immediate threat to others.
But, the big question is "Did Perry act recklessly?"
I am not sure.
Given that he is an ex-Marine, he'd likely know that a chokehold is a potentially lethal act. In that case, he would have been reckless and thus guilty of "Man 2".
However, if Perry's actions prevented the harm or death of others, he likely would be exonerated and acquitted at trial.
I don't know enough of the details of the situation in which this event occurred.
Also, however, goes to the state of mind of Perry during the chokehold. If he had enough presence of mind, he should have stopped the chokehold once Neely was subdued. If he did not have sufficient presence of mind, that might mitigate any penalties he faces if convicted. Again, though, Perry was a Marine and the expectation is that he'd have the presence of mind in the heat of the situation because he'd have been trained to "keep his shit together" during battle.
So Perry may be in trouble here. I think it really boils down to how much of an urgent threat Neely was immediately before his death.
@zagor
Yes. Worse, in fact, his not releasing once Neely was limp is indicative of MURDER 2. The chokehold is to subdue. Once subdued, anything beyond that is actively killing. This is exactly what got Derek Chauvin convicted of murdering George Floyd. Kneeling on Floyd's neck to subdue him in understandable, but he kept it there well beyond that point.
Spot on! The problem here is he was trained to kill people and he was pissed off. We don't know why... once someone is in "that state of mind", they can kill and it seems the right thing to do... remember Derek Chauvin's expression in those last moments?
This is a beast to solve because people can cause problems ( scare, assault, spit on, rob, etc..), but you defend yourself and get out of control... you pay. If you make a mistake, you pay. If they turn on you, you pay with death. And the city keeps turning these people loose on the streets. The citizens... are the prey. We all have to walk around as if we are in the inside of an asylum... even when it is a small minority of people, some are very sick and need the help of a skilled nurse and patience of "Job"... from the Bible. So, all citizens need trained. That said, the Chinese were getting the S@@t kicked out of them not long ago by the thugs and they took it on the chin. Asian crime seems down... for now.
Since we are an "F'd up" city due to democrat thinking, you the citizen... are "F'd". You travel here, you better have the right mindset... which is "to love others more than yourself". That means some personal sacrafice, suffering... for the benefit of others. Welcome to "the city"... or stay out...
ya get into a problemwhen you take someone down... how does it end? let him up, does he attack again? Hold too tight because you are so pissed off... he dies. jury has to look at everything andso much of it is the law and how the judge writes instructions. in NYC... the guy is in trouble given the number of liberal thinkers.
@lightbulb27 This guy's in trouble because he clearly killed someone who was not a threat to him.
When they see the video of the chokehold still in place AFTER Neely is limp, that's murder.
This has nothing to do with being liberal. And, it takes a unanimous jury to convict in a criminal case. No jury is unanimously liberal and, furthermore, the defense can throw out potential jurors during voir dire.
nyc is trained within to be liberal... I've seen it with our kids and the environment.
@lightbulb27 Get real. I was born there. New York elects Republican mayors too.
It's not like there's a disease there.
all depends whom is pulled for jury duty, odds are not in his favor. move this to Texas, different result... different thinking. I meet republicans... the ones that moved out. they do exist...
New York is a lawless territory. They continuously release criminals back onto the streets. They make trumped up charges to corruptly prosecute innocent people. They pulled police off the trains so that citizens have to defend themselves against gangsters. New York has been turned into 1920s gangland on purpose by the cabal. You’ll find no justice there, so why pretend like it exists? What's happening in New York has nothing to do with what is just or fair. Deserve has nothing to do with it...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/hbSv8TH4jjIIn the wild west in the absence of proper rule of law people mainly aimed for a fair fight. If you threatened someone, those were fighting words. If you got into a physical confrontation you were obliged to offer a fair fight with fists only. If you were going to use a weapon, the opponent had to be equally armed. If you died after threatening someone, then tough shit you got what was coming to you... I'd say those old rules apply to New York today. Given the fight in question was hand to hand combat and the guy that died was threatening people, then it was a fair fight. It's sad where New York is there days. Dark times indeed...
He deserves whatever the sentence for manslaughter is. I think he may have gotten involved with good intentions but he cut off a man’s airway for 3 minutes and ended up
using deadly force on him. It just wasn’t reasonable under the circumstances. Neely shouted that he was hungry and thirsty and didn’t care if he died. The most “violent” thing he did that day was throw his jacket on the ground. These are facts Daniel Penny is going to have to reckon with in court. He went overboard and there should be appropriate consequences. People keep bringing up Neely’s arrest record but his past had no bearing on the events that day. Penny also had no knowledge of it, so it couldn’t have had any relevance to what happened on that subway. Penny killed a man for behaving erratically. That’s the bottom line and that’s just not legal.
I find it offensive that they claim the homeless guy had a “mental health crises.” He was simply screaming that he was hungry and tired. That is a “biological health crises,” and not a mental one. The one who says he is mentally ill for asking for food and water deserves to be jailed for five years for condemning the rights of others to beg for the right to live. They are guilty like all murderers who deny others the right to live.
Neely had committed assult several times recently including punching a 67 year old woman. (google neely assault charge)
That doesn't make his killing justified, but he had been violent and unstable in the recent past. He had left mental health care the courts had ordered
@richardcory they claim George Floyd committed five felonies after he was murdered because they wanted people to stop hating white police officers. Media lies when they are paid to lie.
George Floyd had an arrest record. Are you denying that? Now whether it was a good shoot or not is another question, but you can't deny the facts.
Do you think the arrest records in either case were fabricated after the fact?
@richardcory I think that borders on tin foil helmet. The government is too inept to pull that off, and how do you explain all the complainants in the former charges?
@BoopBoopBeep I agree. I think the charges were real, but maybe some people don't?
Opinion
14Opinion
That guy needs to go to a mental hospital. He's obviously got a screw loose enough that it doesn't matter what his intentions are. He's a trained killer by the greatest military in the world and he choked a guy out for three minutes because he didn't make use of the first thing you learn about choke holds which is that mere seconds can be the difference between life and death.
I don't know if he meant to kill him. But whether he did or didn't, doesn't change the face that what he did wasn't logical. I hope he gets the help he needs far away from the general population.
Neely was making threats to kill, and Penny only made a move to stop him when Neely made an attempt to harm another passenger in that subway car. Penny used enough force to subdue Neely, the he put Neely in the recovery position, that is not the act of someone who intended to permanently harm Neely.
Many others on that subway car had already dialled 911 but the train was between stations when Neely kicked off, not leaving Penny and two other passengers much of a choice in having to restrain Neely who was on NYC’s List of ‘Top 50’ Mentally Ill Homeless People in Need of Urgent Help so ultimately it is NYC who failed Neely across the board.
Jordan Neely was a violent criminal who should have been behind bars or in a psych facility.
It is a tragic event that never should have happened, as the guy who was threatening people had a long history of behavior that should have had him in prison or in a mental hospital.
As for culpability... that is more difficult. Penny did protect people, but that is not really the full question. Did he go further than necessary in order to subdue the assailant , and if so is that a crime under New York Law? I am not familiar enough with the statutes to say.
Only Batman and US cops are allowed to assault the mentally ill for little cause. Penny is neither, so gets full whack for assaulting the mentally ill.
Just because it's a "marine" makes little difference. Unless he's claiming his PTSD was what caused the reaction. In which case he can try for an appeal on grounds of being mentally ill. In which case lets hope he never meets Batman, or a US cop.
Someone screaming and threatening violence is hardly little cause. And from his background they weren't empty threats. Sure they didn't know his background at the time, but if someone you don't know comes up to you on the street and says they're going to kill you do you assume they're all talk?
What Penny has done is bring all the cowards out from under their rocks, so they can (once again) express their bloodlust, their misanthropy vicariously through him, by cheering for this man who found it necessary to strangle a homeless man for saying words.
Sheer BS. He was stopping a demented man with a history of random violence. People were disgusted when a woman was raped on the train and no one intervened. So someone does intervene and now everyone is crying murder. With all the shootings and stabbings, he should have just assumed he was venting?
Yeah, if you are TRYING to strangle someone and not restraining them after a violent outburst which for all the people present knew could have been followed by physical violence. If a disheveled person runs at you shouting "I'm gonna kill you!" do you smirk and assume he is just in a bad mood?
He's a hero and if the deranged homeless guy had actually been held accountable for his many crimes, such as punching elderly people in the face and shoving people into train tracks, he would still be alive. The people treating him like some kind of martyr are the scum of the earth.
This is our fucked up sick politically correct liberal ass society, the ex-Marine will end up in prison and the fuckin homeless dope head that acts like Micheal Jackson with a violent record will get a statue in his honor or a bridge named after him. We are really fucked up as a country, this maddess has to end.
@abc3643 Yeah I'm sure he was riding the subway just waiting for a crazed person to start screaming.
People put up with all kinds of shit "because I didn't want to get involved", as if they're Uvalde police officers. Penny did something. That is what Marines are trained to do, run towards trouble.
Neither. I think he made the wrong decision when he and others were stuck in a subway car with a mentally unstable and potentially dangerous person (Neely had committed multiple assaults before this). It was a difficult situation to be in
Perry is a hero and saved some people who may have been injuried... don't believe in black lies he had a rap sheet of 50 arrests and beat up a woman last week from the time of his death.
The main issue here is whether he used too much force or if force was used too long. Until both sides present their evidence, it's hard to say whether he did or not.
Daniel should have just let the crazy guy kill people. Then this wouldn't even be a story.
That n was well known as a major troublemaker to the transit system. Why was he even allowed on the train
Daniel Perry should be locked up in jail.
There is a difference between protecting others and choke to death.
Well, the deranged right will support him. They love murderers.
No I don't, and he was black this story never makes it to the press. Or, the guy would be herald as a hero.
He is very brave for taking action
He fucked around and found out.
neither. think its a gray situation
It's one less criminal on the streets.
That is for the courts to decide.
He needs a medal.
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