Should we have Exile come back as punishment?

[OddBeMe]

We have a lot a freeloading citizens who had their whole lives to make something of their American Dream. We gonna let them stay?

These folks made a great Halloween costume, fyi. I have it noted for this years couples party.

Yes we should! Due process… then kick them the fck out!

No, once a citizen always a citizen. Unless you’re an ex-con.

Other

Updates

4 mo

https://youtu.be/M5vsNg-dBgA?si=M4zOHlhsMELmCax7

[hahahmm]

A friend of mine who grew up in Africa explained something to me... he started with telling me how he usually doesn't tell americans this because it goes over their heads or they get offended but he could tell I was a deeper thinker (my paraphrase). He talked about how where he grew up he was dirt poor and things were tough. Tougher than anything people in the U. S. have to experience so in America people take things for granted. You grow up in the U. S. thinking you have a tough life but actually you're got all the basic necessities of life/comfort. It causes people to not try as hard. This is why a lot of dirt poor broke people from other countries can come to the U. S. and become millionaires because they have more drive/hunger to get ahead. Now, I'm not saying this applies to every immigrant.. or every citizen. This is a generalization. But it does explain why Americans are claiming that gender pronouns are really important while in most countries that idea is just laughed at and people are focused on making sure they have clean water.

The other thing is that in poor countries, you have a lot of people who never get "ahead" or better. But then you have those who do. There is no way to guarantee that everybody "improves". But taking away challenges/problems increases the percentage of failures.

Anyhow, the U. S. has a lot of problems right now. Most problems are just symptoms of a deeper problem. You have to peel the onion back 150 layers to get to the real central problem. The idea that money is the most important thing is one of the central problems. The ideas that morality should be "if it feels good, do it" or that freedom can exist without responsibilities are more. But the #1 issue is that when you claim there's no God, it makes it easier for the other layers to exist since there's no spiritual meaning to anything.

[OddBeMe]

Can’t say this is completely wrong…

Immigrants do have a drive that obviously makes them trek across the world. I couldn’t imagine even moving to Europe and trying to work. Lol

[hahahmm]

I guess I should add that this doesn't apply to many of the illegal immigrants pouring across the US Mexican border lately. They are paying huge sums to smugglers and they get to government paid hotels with free food, no work requirements and are satisfied with that. These are freeloaders. Heard in the UK, some immigrants who claimed they were oppressed in their homeland were secretly plotting to go back home for Christmas holiday. Hmmmm.

[OddBeMe]

They’re getting govt paid hotels and food because right wing assholes are bussing them (ie, trafficking them) across the country.

[SotiCoto]

I thought you were making sense... until right near the end when you brought "God" into it and completely ruined everything. Nah. Most of the world's problems are caused by religion. Capitalism is just another religion, and needs to die just as much as the rest do.

[OddBeMe]

@SotiCoto what isn’t a religion? If capitalism is a religion call me Christ.

[wolfcat87]

You had me until the end...

[hahahmm]

@SotiCoto Okay. To me God is not religion. Or individuals. Humans do make mistakes.

[hahahmm]

@OddBeMe "They’re getting govt paid hotels and food because right wing assholes are bussing them (ie, trafficking them) across the country." --- Have you really thought about this? Those right (red) states are dealing with WAY, WAY more illegals and don't have the resources to handle it. They tried talking to the feds for help & the feds are actively working against securing the borders by literally cutting barbed wire fences set up by Texas. So red states decided to force the liberals up north & west to put their money where their mouths were when they claimed ALL immigrants must be accepted no matter what and that they are sanctuaries. If they told the truth then they should be happy to help the immigrants. In fact they should be running their own buses & planes to pick more up. But the truth is that they're full of it and were simply claiming to love all these immigrants to make themselves look good. It also turns out that they would much rather spend money on illegal aliens than veterans and citizen homeless.

[Leapfrog00]

The ones milking social security, pretending they're disabled, I'd like to see them sent to Siberia! What's sad is the immigrants work harder than some of these Americans claiming they have disabilities.

I read the other day some law makers in congress are trying to pass a bill where if a person is born in America from an immigrant mother who is an illegal alien, the baby won't automatically be a citizen. According to the 14th amendment, all persons born in the United States are automatic citizens. Even though I don't agree with some loopholes in the law, I do believe it's quite ignorant for people to be trying to rewrite the constitution.

The country is off balance for sure. The US government is a little too generous to some people. Especially the ones who KNOW how to get free money, free food, and free housing, and not have to work to earn anything. I dated a girl once, and her whole family knew how to get free money and free food. Her whole family is on social security disability, both of her parents, grandparents, 4 aunts, 2 uncles, and 6 cousins. Not one person in her family had employment. As long as the government keeps letting people get away with it, nothing will ever change.

[OddBeMe]

Yes…lawmakers who get 176k salary and lifetime socialized medicine who go on tv shows to bitch about socialized medicine and other politicians.

[purplepoppy]

If exile was good enough for Napoleon it's good enough for Trump. Just a suggestion.

[OddBeMe]

Able was I, I saw Elba

[msc545]

@purplepoppy The problem is - it uses up a whole island...

[lightbulb27]

I don't think kick out of country, for where else would they go? that be cruel. Whose gonna take souther redneck hicks? and by the way, ofte, they are farmers and very productive and feed people hogs and chickens and such, do manual labor stuff... so they ain't' a waste. but some people do become lazy and ineffective. There's lazy criminals that cause problems, steal dirt bikes and do wheelies on raods violating laws... them, I'd consider sending somewhere else, build an island for them... china could do it cheap.

Much better to recondition. most people I've met want to do better but have mental/emotional issues. some fell out of the system (training is old) as the system changed and they got crushed. So a recovery program to refresh them be good. upgrade skills.

It's expensive. then again we are spending billions on crap we don't need and migrants, so we got it.

[Avicenna]

It's comical to see some Marxist idiot complain about "freeloading citizens" (being sure of course to depict only whites) while saying absolutely nothing about the freeloading millions being illegally trafficked into the country by his beloved Biden Administration.

New Your Mayor Complains About Costs of Supporting Illegals

[OddBeMe]

You’ve already proved yourself to be a dishonest debater.

But I guess i can’t help myself…

[OddBeMe]

A) a mayor under fire hits easy target of immigrants? Omg! B) Even think tanks on your side can do the math on immigrants. +$200,000

www.cato.org/.../fiscal-impact-immigration-united-states

[Avicenna]

Odd, your idea of "dishonest" is someone pointing out the obvious BS from you.
But keep ignoring the huge costs in the many billions of the millions of illegals being trafficked into the country while you pretend US citizens are all lazy freeloaders.

[OddBeMe]

Don’t even trust your own side’s think tank? Cato clearly states they’re a plus by more than most citizens.

[Avicenna]

I don't have a think tank. And you make the mistake many leftists do- you assume people on the other side of the political spectrum are tethered to the talking points handed down by elites, because that's how you leftists roll.

Cato is libertarian, so of course many people associated with it like open borders. And I'm sure you didn't read the paper, because its conclusions aren't as clear-cut as you claimed, plus papers have their own scope, assumptions, premises and hedges. Finally, their data and assumptions didn't include the 6 million or more poorly-educated illegal invaders brought in since the Biden Administration took office.

Just look at this from the conclusion:

"Our net fiscal impact projections are different under the Cato Model compared with the Updated Model due to the inclusion of capital income, as recommended by Michael Clemens.92 Under the Updated Model, the total and federal net fiscal impact of immigrants is generally higher relative to natives for the young and less educated and lower relative to natives for the elderly and more highly educated. The state/​local net fiscal impacts are generally lower for immigrants of all education and age groups due to the different tax and spending structures on that level of government. State/​local governments bear most education costs and typically do not recoup those costs later in a person’s life through higher tax revenue, but the federal government does. The younger age distribution of immigrants and higher number of children per immigrant household help to explain that fiscal cost discrepancy. Federal benefits favor the elderly, so immigrants who are primarily working age receive fewer of those benefits. Immigrants are also less eligible than natives are for several federal means‐​tested welfare programs."

[Avicenna]

I wouldn't claim it's on par with the heliocentric model of the solar system in terms of proven fact. Note for example, that Michael Clemens is mentioned- at his recommendation, fiscal impact was reallocated from immigrants to the next generation if the immigrants' children were born in the US.

[Avicenna]

Just curious, Odd, but given the huge expenses associated with crime, incarceration and the justice system, do you consider the incarcerated to be "freeloaders"?

[OddBeMe]

Criminality could be seen as “freeloading” against the innocents. But no, prisoners are forced to be in jail.

[OddBeMe]

The prison industrial complex are freeloading in tax money. Agreed?

[msc545]

I used to perform social security eligibility verifications for people that said they were disabled on psychiatric rounds. I did thousands of these.

You have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about in regard to this.

like many of your friends on here, you are simply figuring out a way to express your racist beliefs without admitting you are a racist. At least if you admitted it, you could be respected for your honesty.

[OddBeMe]

Where did I say social security? My brother gets it for being handicapped.

[msc545]

Yes. SSD - Social Security Disability.

[BoopBoopBeep]

I live in meth capital of the world. I thought we were exiling all those people. They're 95% white, how is that racist? Though I'm not 95% white so maybe it is. Damnit foiled again.

[msc545]

@BoopBoopBeep I don't know... using meth is a medical problem. Making it is a crime and rightly so...

[BoopBoopBeep]

@msc545
I'm okay with kicking out the producers, sure. i'm also in favor of kicking out the people who repeatedly use it and commit crimes against others. alcohol is okay. alcoholism is a medical problem. get drunk and plow into a dude riding his bike down the road, keep driving and act like nothing happened you're still doing 20 to life. we hold a lot of people criminally culpable for things that happen as a result of similar medical problems. second degree manslaughter covers most of that. if i'm an unmedicated narcoleptic i can't fly a plane. if i do anyway i'm going to jail

[Pyrofox]

Should be a last resort punishment in my opinion. Repeat offenders who haven't learned after exile. And those who still do it they lose the thumbs XD. Its like is it that hard not to break the law.

[andreasderjuengere]

Wait a second...

The guys that we developed countries sent away were all going to ''America'' or to Australia when I remember right.

So... WHAT do you actually mean? - The 'Indian Removal Act'?

[OddBeMe]

Hey! We wanted to get away for freedom! Thats what our textbooks say anyway.

[GregorSamsa]

*psht* Coffin ships, highland clearances, Australian transport from Fleet Street Prisons, the Puritans and Heuganots that neither the Netherlands OR England wanted...

We are fed so much propaganda about how "great" America is, and it's always been made up of a bunch of misfits nobody wanted. While a few romantic revolutionaries used it as a platform to sell books (Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin) career build (Washington, Arnold), or to try to keep the crazies from taking over the nuthouse (John Adams).

[GregorSamsa]

... so we think that every average American was a well-educated and exceptional "founding father". No... most definitely not.

[andreasderjuengere]

@OddBeMe... ''your'' freedom isn't really one :)
... it's egocentrism, rather.

[OddBeMe]

I don’t discount this probability. Britian wanted colonists and puritans prob were a pain in the ass.

And then our American Revolution was really an anti-tax rebellion. Except the only ones getting taxed were the rich. I consider the civil war as the real American revolution.

[BoopBoopBeep]

I can get behind that... the problem is, to where? Talk about pissing off a foreign country, not that I'm particularly concerned with that, mind you, but some are.

[OddBeMe]

Our foreign aid should get us something!

[BoopBoopBeep]

Hahah crap great idea... that's basically what we're doing with privatized prisons anyway.

[OddBeMe]

They’ve expanded since Ike…
www.youtube.com/watch

[Drewtate]

...

[OddBeMe]

Illegal migrants get tax money…. how?

[Drewtate]

At the start of 2023, the net cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was at least $150.7 billion.
FAIR arrived at this number by subtracting the tax revenue paid by illegal aliens – just under $32 billion – from the gross negative economic impact of illegal immigration, $182 billion.
In 2017, the estimated net cost of illegal migration was approximately $116 billion. In just 5 years, the cost to Americans has increased by nearly $35 billion.
Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year ($957 after factoring in taxes paid by illegal aliens).
Each illegal alien or U. S.-born child of illegal aliens costs the U. S. $8,776 annually.
Evidence shows that tax payments by illegal aliens cover only around a sixth of the costs they create at all levels in this country.
A large percentage of illegal aliens who work in the underground economy frequently avoid paying any income tax at all.
Many illegal aliens actually receive a net cash profit through refundable tax credit programs.

[OddBeMe]

How much of it is self imposed by laws trying to round up daca kids? And do factor in sales tax illegal migrants pay?

[Drewtate]

This is the problem with not dealing with illegals in the first place, now we have all these dacca kids to deal with that aren't citizens and have nowhere to go. Yet another reason for a proper immigration policy like every other country has even liberal Canada.

[OddBeMe]

Or flip side, you’re creating a problem out of nothing. How do illegal immigrants hurt you?

[Drewtate]

They devalue wages. Cheap labor, just like how slavery hurt free men like Abraham Lincoln's father.

[OddBeMe]

No they don’t. Unless you’d be the one doing their job if they weren’t here, and in that case, America might not be for you.

[Drewtate]

Yes they do by flooding the job market.
Are you saying I should go back to Africa because I've never been?

[OddBeMe]

I’m saying if you compete with illegal immigrant jobs than maybe aim higher. Probably could get scholarships and better your fucking life. Why should my tax dollars go to fund your shit life?

[Drewtate]

I don't need your tax dollars. Even college graduates are struggling, so many working flipping burgers, so many immigrants now have degrees.
Illegals take jobs and drive down wages meaning less money spent in the economy and more of your tax dollars used on welfare. Same thing is happening in Germany.

[OddBeMe]

Um strange how stats say otherwise. A year flipping burgers and then a job on Wall Street, etc. Because having a college degree literally guarantees hundreds of thousands more in salary than fucks without a degree.

[Drewtate]

Nah. All the wallsyreet jobs went in the 90s, unless you mean flipping burgers on wallstreet.
A college degree doesn't guarantee anything anymore. Not unless you've done some heavyweight degree and gotten top marks. Everyone has a degree these days.

[OddBeMe]

Well here’s actual proof which you’ll disregard because that’s the right wing way! Just know you could be making 3.5x more a year if you tried. But good luck against those damn migrants!

www.aplu.org/.../

[Drewtate]

I am making 3 x more. I have gone to college but thankfully I went into a trade as well which actually makes me money due to the shortage while most college graduates are making minimum wage flipping burgers. No use quoting statistics from the college industrial complex.

[OddBeMe]

Ahh so you’re not being threatened by migrants as most Americans aren’t. Then what’s the rumpus?

[Drewtate]

I'm American I don't want to live like they do in Mexico or Brazil. We are importing their problems.

[OddBeMe]

So your job and people you know aren’t being threatened by illegal migrants at all…it’s just your feelings or emotions. How many die because of politics due to blind rage?

[Dargil]

I know. Lets use Trump's wall design and build a wall around San Francisco county so its like Escape From New York.

[OddBeMe]

We could do that…but can we have a bank-type drive through for all the money Silicon Valley produces for red states?

[Dargil]

Why not?

[OddBeMe]

And people say you Trumptards aren’t flexible. Lol

[Dargil]

Awww. I'm hurt.

[Sevenpointfive]

i was thinking about this the other day. exile today isn't punishment. the story i will use is roman polanski. some use it as extradition

[OddBeMe]

It is when you’re not rich. I don’t really want to exile anyone just wanted to get people asking if citizenship should be right or privilege. People are starving to death at our border.

[Sevenpointfive]

that's a global burden. one state shouldn't take on itself. but the whole of south america wants to come across because of drugs and dictators? i heard biden might go to war with the cartel but didn't he already announce that a few years ago and did nothing?

if certain countries aren't working. why not bring back imperialism? take over like we do in the mid-east. weren't we told that all of our soldiers were out of there? yet somehow our bases are under attack and u. s. soldiers have to defend them? it's hard to keep all of the government lies straight.

[OddBeMe]

Yet most of the Latin and S American disasters are the fault of the US. No?

[Sevenpointfive]

ONe of the greatest oil deposits is in Venezuela. it's common knowledge. are we making them the new middle east? i would probably say yes, but that doesn't account for the entire south American continent

[OddBeMe]

And the other dozens of countries?

[Sevenpointfive]

if you're talking in south america; they'll be fine if you don't fuck with them. but they are all trying to find jewish leaders to fulfill jewish domination.

[exitseven]

Even though it would be nice to get rid or career criminals , lifetime welfare recipients and liberals if they are citizens then they belong here/.

[OddBeMe]

Or insurrectionists who beat cops.

[exitseven]

or politicians that take bribes.

[OddBeMe]

Bribes were legalized by republicans. Ie, Citizens united.

[exitseven]

Ted Kennedy opened up the bribery train when he paved the way for PAC money.

[OddBeMe]

Wait.. you think citizens united was democrats? You’re an idiot.

[exitseven]

I thought citizens united was a soccer team.

[OddBeMe]

Sounds like a sketchy bank. But it was a stupid right wing charity looking to destroy limits on dark money.

[exitseven]

I thought that was Ted /K ennedy

[OddBeMe]

What is this Ted Kennedy shit? Blame him for DUI but citizens United was freakin repubs.

[exitseven]

Ted Kennedy did a lot more besides kill people and create monopolies/ He created super PACs

[OddBeMe]

Please link that evidence.

[exitseven]

Ted is dead.

[OddBeMe]

SuperPacs became a thing in 2010 after US vs Citizens United. Ted died in 2009. So physics will be your biggest problem.

[GregorSamsa]

Maybe sterilization would be a better option.

[OddBeMe]

Their progeny doesn’t concern me for now at least. It’s them.

[GregorSamsa]

Just think how NOW could have been affected if their parents had been sterilized? 🤣

[OddBeMe]

If their parents had been exiled to the southern border that’d also solve the problem.

TBH, I’m not totally against regulating birthing babies or parenting. There’s severe, severe, lack of good parenting in America.

[Juxtapose]

Your tyranny is showing. You want to exile people for simply being poor?

[OddBeMe]

Not really. But we never think citizenship is a privilege.

[DarkLegacy]

I thought exile was reserved for Kings and Emperors

[AngryCarl]

Who do you think wants to take your human garbage? Rwanda? That's going to cost you.

[OddBeMe]

Well, we should get some thing for our foreign aid to warlords.

[Astarlessnightsky]

Once a citizen always a citizen.

[OddBeMe]

That sounds Marxist.

[jshm2]

What you bitching about now bruh?

[EmpressAJ]

🤣🤣

[OddBeMe]

Are you really asking me to dumb it down for you?

Guys! We found our first victim. Time to end the dumbening of America.

[SotiCoto]

Seems more like a reward than punishment.

[ChefPapiChulo]

who the fuck is exile?