Does saying you can't be patriotic unless you support a particular party or candidate smack of fascism?

[OtterMan68]

Isn't that right out of the fascism playbook? The leader, his party, and the country are all intertwined into one thing?

Patriotism is love of country, not love of party or love of politician.

Fascist leaders expect devotion and allegiance to them and their followers associate love of country with love of leader.

Yes, patriotism has NOTHING to do with party or politician; it's about love of country

No, it's fine to say people who don't support a certain party or candidate are unpatriotic traitors

Other

Updates

1 y

This may help explain what I'm getting at
Trump calls his supporters "patriots." Can you be a patriot and not support Trump? ↗

[DaisyM23]

i would say i'm slightly patriotric, i'm a little proud of my country but more of the people because the politicians in charge are SHIT, generally there is a trend that the right wing party represents tradition and patriorism whilst the left challenge that, but i'm left-wing and there are things to be proud of but the governments just ruin everything, no one party or candidate stands for the whole country so how can they stand for patriotism - it would definitely be fascism if you can't disagree with something without being called a traitor - take the nazis for example, they won a lot of support from 1933 but also a lot of backlash, but because of how nationalistic they became, standing against them was propagated to be standing against the whole country and that's NOT democracy

[NamerOfStars]

I'm sure Joseph "I desire what is good; therefore, anyone who disagrees with me is a traitor" Stalin would be surprised to hear that he's a fascist.

It smacks of collectivism, to be certain, but whether that leans right or left is immaterial.

[OtterMan68]

does it matter what Stalin called himself?
Yes, he was a marxist, but his cult of personality thathe insisted on was no different than Hitler or Mussolini's

[NamerOfStars]

That's my point; worshipful adoration and unrestricted power is inevitably going to damage things. Whether it's Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or the Star Wars prequels, the net results are the same.

Okay, the prequels didn't kill anybody, but you get my point.

[llorando]

Yea, you don't have to belong to a particular party for support certain candidates to be patriotic.

[RebelinSteel]

No stupidity and lack of understanding about nationalism.

[OtterMan68]

nationalism + militarism + xenophobia = fascism

[RebelinSteel]

No it does not

[gorydetails]

What word is next for you dummies? You already ran "racist" and "nazi" into the ground so they're meaningless. "Fascist" is played out, too. I've heard "christian nationalist" is up on deck. You may want to be sure you're up to date on your propaganda.

[OtterMan68]

but you didn't answer the quetion.
Fascists combined loyalty to country, leader, and party into their definition of patriotism
Do you deny there are people today who say you can't be patriotic if you don't support a specific candidate or party?
Also, if I'm wrong, and that fascists do NOT conflate patriotism with loyalty to country, party, and leader, explain how that is wrong?

[gorydetails]

Why are you suddenly worried about fascism? Are you concerned you're going to be forced to take an experimental vaccine or lose your job or something?

[OtterMan68]

does it "smack of fascism"?
Yes or no?

[gorydetails]

who the fuck cares? There's no fascism in the US.

[gorydetails]

What a surprise, your update shows what an NPC you are.

[OtterMan68]

so you refuse to answer the question. You do think can only be a patriot if you're a Trump supporting republican.

[gorydetails]

Of the people who support Trump vs. those who voted for Biden, more Biden voters hate America.

[OtterMan68]

thank you for making my point. You'd have fit in in 1920s-1930'2 Italy, Germany, or Spain: You don't support Mussolini, Hitler, or Franco? You're a traitor! You hate the country!"

[gorydetails]

bahahaha, I did no such thing. you did, however, prove what an idiot you are.

[OtterMan68]

Are supporters of the democrat party and President Biden patriots?

[gorydetails]

Not all of them. A lot of leftists hate this country. You can't be for unfettered illegal immigration and love this country.

[OtterMan68]

you really think they "hate" the US or do they just have a different view of a more perfect union than you do?

[gorydetails]

Absolutely without a doubt they want to destroy this country. Do you destroy the things you love?

[b_lova]

@gorydetails I would love to give you a standing ovation that starts with a slow clap.

Great job proving his point!

[gorydetails]

@b_lova not by a long shot. It's funny you lefties are more worried about people calling you out for hating this country than you are rooting out the people who are working to ruin this country.

[b_lova]

@gorydetails The thing is that I'm not a lefty. Voted Republican all my life and abstain from voting when I can't on good conscious vote Republican. Sadly, I haven't been able to vote the past few years.

Your assumption on my party affiliation and response is a part of the proof that what he is saying is true. You choose party over country.

What you think of as "love of country" is a desire to control it. Love in a relationship means compromise and those who are unwilling to compromise, destroy that which they think they love.

[gorydetails]

@b_lova yeah, you don't put party over country, but it's the republican party you can't align with on any issue. Lol.

[b_lova]

@gorydetails again proving his point.

That's not true at all, but I get the sense you rationalize lies in order to make yourself feel better.

Hope you grow out of that one-day. Peace! 🎤

[gorydetails]

@b_lova lmao. I'm restating your position. Sorry you don't like it.

[OtterMan68]

one could argue that saying a news network for lose it's license for negative coverage of a politician hates the US as they hate the First Amendment.
One could argue that anyone who thinks the POTUS can do wahtever he wants and not be prosecuted for it because he has total immunity hates the US as they are pro-dictator.

[b_lova]

@gorydetails only in your mind. Any rational person reading this thread sees that's not the truth.

But I see you feel the need to attempt to "put me in my place" since you don't have a rational response to prove me wrong. If you can reply with one then I will respond, otherwise I won't waste any more of my time on this conversation. You have already provided the confirmation necessary to prove my point.

Good day sir.

[gorydetails]

@b_lova actually any rational person will see that you folks trying to conflate a party or candidate with fascism is the same nonsense and propaganda that has come out of the democrat party for years. First it was "racist", that got worn out, then went to "nazi"... well that got worn out too and there's that whole Ukraine nazi problem... now they've moved to "fascist" and "christian nationalist".

It's all the same smears.

And the gaslighting that there aren't people in the democrat party actively trying to destroy the country is just icing on the cake.

[b_lova]

@gorydetails your guy literally quotes Hitler, says Putin is doing great things and claims he never made a vow to uphold the US Constitution when he became POTUS. Sounds like he cares a lot about American values to me. 🫤

I never said there were not people in the Democratic party trying to destroy America. I completely believe it was infiltrated by socialists and communists during the Cold War. But looking the other way while DJT does his dirty work is the choice of someone who chooses party over country. DJT is literally for sale to the highest bidder. Also, are you so naive that you don't think there are Republicans who want to destroy America too? The minds behind J6 said that was their primary goal.

I am sure there are Nazis fighting for Ukraine but that doesn't mean we should allow Russia to absorb it back into their nation and strengthen communism in the world. Ukraine was a functioning democratic society until the latest Putin invasion. Do you think that will be the case if we sit back and allow Russia to absorb it again? The only reason Republicans stopped supporting Ukraine was because DJT says he is the only one who can bring peace and doesn't want Biden to get a win. So DJT in turn doesn't want congress to pass a national budget to keep aide from going to Ukraine. While I agree our spending is out of hand because they let the government get too big, no national budget means spending is no longer monitored and can be even worse. Let alone the impact of not paying government workers.

DJT has split the Republican party with the support of people like you. You are fighting the wrong group of people if you think the Dems are responsible for this mess. The Republican Party is going down and we did it to ourselves.

Thanks for bringing the convo back to the point but I'm done. I have to make a living and do some work.

[gorydetails]

@b_lova And that's for showing the usual nonsense propaganda. The republican party should be split. Americans are fucking tired of them selling out the citizens they are paid to represent.

[b_lova]

I would agree but division means we will get clobbered every time and therefore you are letting the Dems win.

[gorydetails]

@b_lova or you could join the fight to root out the RINOS

[b_lova]

@gorydetails here you go again. At it's core rooting out anyone from a Party is Party over everything else mentality.

RINO is a phrase specifically created to bash someone in the Republican party who has a decenting opinion from the perceived majority. What's funny is that the perceived majority is rarely the case until the Bandwagon mentality kicks in from the statement. Only the weak minded fall in complete alignment in group decisions. Government doesn't work without compromise. Perfect example is calling Liz Cheney a RINO. She voted inline with DJT's policies 90% of the time yet has been labeled a RINO because she sees and calls out his criminal activity.

The thing MAGA hasn't taken into consideration is that it has weakened the Republican Party and is has handed Dems all those wins since 2020 election. MAGA just has a really loud voice and while the squeaky wheel will always get the grease that doesn't convert to wins at the polls.

[gorydetails]

@b_lova If I'm wanting the deep state uniparty out of the republican party, how am I putting "party first" that literally the opposite of putting party first.

People like eyepatch McCain are no different than pelosi. They can all get fucked.

[b_lova]

There is no deep state, that's all conspiracy to make you think the leaders you trust are fighting someone for you. The reality is that the politicians that talk about fighting the deep state are in the pocket of the rich who influence and sometimes make the decisions we all have to live with and rather than answering for that decision they say, look your enemy is over there.

The deep state is an invisible opponent designed specifically so you will be enraged and blindly follow without questions. Ever noticed how RINOs often are deep state operatives. That's your guys getting rid of the decenting opinion when they don't have a rational reason to confront the decenting opinion. Isn't it odd that it makes for an easy out when they are losing the argument?

[gorydetails]

@b_lova There's no deep state but we don't know epstein's client list, and the democrat party colluded with social media to repress information damaging to Biden. It's all a conspiracy!!! Lol. More gaslighting.

[b_lova]

@gorydetails It's a known fact that Epstein crossed party lines and there is more evidence of DJT's relationship with him than Biden's, but I am willing to bet Biden isn't the only powerful person who would suppress the release of an unredacted list, if he is on there. DJT and Epstein have actually been listed in court cases, together, where girls accused them of rape. Right now that's just more DJT look over there crap. You are indeed being lied to, but not by who you think.

Why not base your issues on the evidence already in existence? No need to make up invisible crap. Or accept crap because it comes from the mouth of some who says they are on your side. Again more distractions from the reality of having to answer the hard question.

[gorydetails]

@b_lova When did I accuse Biden of being with Epstein? Oh yeah never.

My evidence is right in front of your face. We are being governed by a bunch of unelected pedophiles who are raping the middle class, driving the economy into the shitter, while they enrich themselves with insider trading.

You just want to be willfully ignorant. Your TDS has broken your brain.

[strateguy632]

maybe but not as bad as saying you ain't black! cancel that!

[OtterMan68]

or telling jews that don't support Israel they hate their religion

[legalboxers]

this is who they want..

[DextroShade]

The democrats are anti-American as you literally have democrats shouting "DEATH TO AMERICA!"

So if you are a patriot Trump is your only option.

[DrPepper12]

That said, I think nationalism is a really shitty resom6hhhh to fight and die

[msc545]

Patriotism is bullshit.

[Dargil]

I can't see why.

[OtterMan68]

did you read my explanation?

[Dargil]

Patriotism is love of country including protecting it from foreign and domestic enemies like China and Democrats respectively.

[OtterMan68]

so you think if someone is a patriot, he must support the GOP?

[Sasahara]

Nope.

[OtterMan68]

why not?

[Sasahara]

I just don’t think it smack of facism. Maybe it would have smacked more of facism if it was said by a leftist.