If "feminism" no longer stands for what I believe in, what should I call myself that makes my principles clear?

[Anonymous]

I believe that there is still misogyny left in the systems of my country that needs to be dismantled, but I don't believe this means men are oppressing women. It means some men and women are abusing the systems to hurt both men and women, and the systems themselves hurt both men and women.

• Take the draft—it's mysoginistic that women can't register because they're assumed to be incapable, but who gets hurt by that misogyny? Men get hurt.
• There's plenty of things feminism has done that I support, like fighting against prejudice against women in STEM fields and higher education. That same prejudice also needs to be fought against in "lower level" jobs like manual labor though. There are women who could be working these "higher paying" jobs that don't require a higher education but are dangerous and hard on the body, but instead it is still vastly only men. That can hurt both men because they feel forced into more dangerous jobs, and women because they feel they can't take those jobs even if they want to.
• Then there's court, where mysoginy in male judges leads to male criminals getting harsher sentences and female criminals getting light sentences, because men are seen as more competent so more responsible for their own actions. This hurts male criminals, men wrongly convicted, and men and women who are around the female criminals who don't get very much punishment for their crimes.

So it turns out I guess I'm not a "feminist," but I'm not just an MRA either. There are many ways that the mysoginy in my country's systems hurts men AND women, and I want to fix it for the sake of them BOTH. What does that make me? Is there a group fighting for this already that I can join?

Updates

12 d

I want a label so that it's clear what I believe and what my goals are. I want to find a group that is working towards those same goals, because groups are much more effective at fixing large systemic issues than one person alone is.

[Kaneki05]

I think your looking for a group that don't exist because simply no one really cares about that.
When women wanted the right to vote it makes sense because it benefits them, women do not vote to be drafted because that does not. Wanting what benefits yourself makes perfect sense.
This however is not or barley is to a few. Such few are like 1 to 100M maybe more and they really aren't going to get anywhere as it's not even push back, it's just complete apathy. And that's much worse than anything when it comes to reaching a goal.
Look at anything that does change from a group that's always around big hot topic buttons that have a lot of clash from both sides.

In simplest terms society issues are only as such when there is tons of drama around them. If a woman gets a lesser sentence do you think there is much drama around that? The answer is no.

[Asker]

So how can I make more people care about these issues? It does hurt people, even if it doesn't hurt them in big flashy ways that get all the attention. I don't want to lie to get people to care.

[Kaneki05]

It's not what you want to hear but I don't think anything can really. It's human nature to be bias and to only care about the big stuff or when it directly effects them.
I don't know what made you into such issues, maybe that's the key. But exceptions aren't the rule.
This stuff your on about will ethier change naturally over time or it won't. My bet is it will overtime actually, but that don't mean there will be big groups for it.

The real way to make it more important is to get rid of the bigger problems but realistically that's impossible and there will always be bigger issues.

There is also the other harsher factor is it don't benefit most women so you aren't going to make allys on such views. But if you can get enemies that's always better than apathy. It gets people to conflict about it. Equally though you don't want your allies been red pills who just want these rules in place out of distaste women rather than genuine equality.

A good sign though to what your on about is, a lot more people now are vocal on women predators been just as bad as guys, it's still a joke to some. But that view has changed dramatically over the past years. So like I said I do think these issues will slowly creep up and solve themselves. But I don't know what that means for what ya should do now.

[genericname85]

you should always ask first: do certain social standards exist "to opress and discriminate women"? or do they exist to protect women from something they don't want in the wirst place.

feminism never did anything wmoen wanted. people just confuse inequality with opression when really "inequality" is just another word for "diversity"

[Asker]

You can discriminate against someone by trying to "protect" them. Women don't need forced protection, all that really is is banning women from certain careers or opportunities. They may not be opportunities a lot of people want, but they're opportunities that everyone should have as an option regardless. Some people will take them if given the chance. It's bad to "protect" people from equality.

[genericname85]

yeah true but i never heard women complain about "oppression" when a ship sunk and people shouted "women and children first".

[genericname85]

or when governments said "women shouldn't be forced to go to war like men are".

[Anonymous]

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. It's about the issues you care about and what you believe is right, not what you call yourself. Identity politics is destroying our society from the inside, and feeling the need to identify with some group or movement is a huge part of that. Let that go, and just focus on advocating for the issues.

I kind of agree with the things you said by the way. But "misogyny" in male judges leads to male criminals getting harsher sentences. "Misogyny" is what makes judges have more compassion for women than men? Think about that for a minute, girl. You're sounding like a feminist.

[Asker]

I explained it simply: they think men are better and more responsible than women, which is why the judge them more harshly for doing something wrong. That's still mysoginy because it's treating men as superior to women, but it obviously hurts men in this case (as in many cases). I don't see how it's "feminist" to recognize that mysoginy hurts men too, when the whole reason I'm not identifying as a feminist anymore is because they have the reputation of not caring about men getting hurt.

[DishLady]

Do we need labels on every single thing?


I still consider myself a feminist even though SOME members of the group have gone too far, misrepresented everything, etc. I still consider myself a woman (and see that label shifting daily under the strain of sociological nitpicking)… other labels (under the traditional umbrella) would be “lady” and “ethical person” for me….


All man-made labels change. It’s just part of human nature. No need to fuss with MOOOORE labels and micro-labeling.


You do you. No labels… If you’re a good person, that should be enough.

[strateguy632]

"egalitarianism" is the fancy word for equality

[Asker]

Sure that's a word for equality, but I'm looking for a group who actually has a goal to fix things. I've never seen an egalitarian individual or group try to do anything about mysoginy. Have I overlooked some?

[Dargil]

Point information: "egalitarianism" is the fancy word for "equity". Equality" is equal opportunity. Equity is a forced outcome.

[The_Sexpert]

I too wish there was a group for just "Humans" instead of different groups for different gender, race and sexuality

[Asker]

I understand why there are different groups: you're more effective when you focus on a specific goal. If you try to fix EVERYTHING it's much more overwhelming and ineffective. Since mysoginy is something that effects me and those closest to me the most, I try to focus on that. I also help with other causes where I can—like volunteering, buying from groups or individuals, and attending events—but my main focus is this. I want to find a group who focuses on it too, not just part of it and ignores the other half.

[SotiCoto]

You could try coining your own term, but nobody will know what it means.

You could try using the term "feminist" anyway, but people will have their own assumptions about the word and try to pigeonhole you into it.

There really isn't any way of getting what you want out of this, unfortunately.

[dolemite58]

It’s not misogyny keeping women out of physical labor jobs it’s physical ability. There are some jobs girls could do like be a mechanic or be a welder but there’s a lot of those blue collar jobs the vast majority of women just genuinely couldn’t keep up with. I’ve never heard of women working on an oil rig before.

[Asker]

https:// youtu. be/kuegX17qUUc
Just because you've never heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There's no job that men have to do that women aren't capable of doing too, and many times the main thing preventing women from pursuing those jobs is not the manual labor, but the risk of being alone in a group of all-male coworkers. Hard jobs are hard jobs, but there's people willing to do them of both sexes.

[dolemite58]

And just because you show me one video of it doesn’t mean thats what normal. If there were a very tiny percent of women doing any of the ground work they have to be burning out at those jobs relatively quickly. I’m sure there’s some butch ladies that could manage it but for how long.

[Asker]

Some women do it. That means women aren't incapable just because they're women. I'm sure plenty of men burn out in that kind of job too. It's a hard job. That doesn't mean women should be discouraged or barred from working it if they can.

[Anonymous]

Why do you feel the need to label yourself anyway? Why not just say what you stand for? If everyone had a "label" for the things they believed, there would literally be millions of labels. And calling yourself a feminist today just makes you look like an asshole.

I'm glad you recognize the unfair things men face that you listed here. But please stop calling them misogyny. That just makes you look like an asshole too. If anything, they are misandry, not misogyny.

[Asker]

I don't see what you mean. In every case I listed men get hurt because women are treated as less capable than them. How is that not mysoginy?

[Opinion Owner]

Women are not required to register for the draft because they are viewed as more important and less expendable than men. That's the opposite of misogyny.

There is nothing stopping women from being "garbage men" if they want to be, but they don't want to, There is no "misogyny" there.

Judges show more empathy and compassion for women than men. That is the opposite of misogyny.

The mental gymnastics is must take for you to twist these things into "misogyny" in your brainwashed mind is astounding. If you actually want to do something to help address real gender issues, you need to start by forgetting everything you learned in your gender studies classes and everything you read in all that feminist propaganda and deprogram your mind. What a freakin mess.

[1Rezz]

That's a problem tho, tbh
I think she might've meant it was sexist, cuz treating one sex worse or better only because of their sex and not for who they are is what sexism is yk
As for what y said no..
In a lot of cases the judges do not have empathy for u cuz u're a women, and usually that case is more misogynistic than not- but then again misogyny is a more specified term for sexism.
Atp does it even matter what label one uses when both sides are obviously harmed from it😭
Specifying it to Misandry or Misogyny, esp when everybody is simply pointing finger.. this is truly getting noone anywhere.
Most people are actually sexist to a degree, some worse than others ofcourse

And as for the this gurl I just hope she phrased it wrong, cuz calling it misogyny would be wrong in most of the cases she presented

[Asker]

@1Rezz the cause of the sexism matters because how can you fix something if you don't know the cause? Take judges for example, did you know female judges rule more equally for men and women than male judges do? Why would that be the case if harsh pubishments for men were because of misandry? Why would a male judge me more misandrous than a female judge (statistically)? These are rhetorical questions but I hope you understand my reasoning.

As for the draft that was started back when women were not even allowed to vote. How were women seen as more important than men when they were property OF men and not allowed to have a say in anything?

[Opinion Owner]

@1Rezz I'm glad you corrected yourself in your last sentence.

It DOES matter which term you use because using the term misogyny means a person's actions are motivated by hatred for or sexism against women. Judges give men harsher sentences because of sexism against men, NOT women. This is not rocket science.

[normalice]

Feminism is fundamentally about equal pay for equal work. What you are describing is outdated redpill nonsense. And you are doing it under the guise of being a "former" feminist to sneak some fake credibility.

[JacobJordan]

Try just being a decent morally correct person. If you see bullshit call it out. Why do you need a label? Why do want a label. Closest I get to a label is being a morally centered person that calls out bullshit when I see it.

[Asker]

I put an update for this

[JacobJordan]

Yeah I saw that. Reality is you don't need a group. Just start doing it and people will copy you. Majority of the population is sheep. I spent a few summers cleaning up trash along beaches. Went back recently people are still cleaning up trash. I just did it people saw it people copied it and so on and so on. Groups can be effective but typically get side tracked when 1 or 2 bad people join.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Stop putting a label on it and just tell people how you feel. The issue is the labels, that's really it.

[Asker]

I put an update for this

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Groups are good for someone to take control of and weaponize. Like what happened to feminism, the Democrat party, the republican party, BLM, LGBTQ, pretty much every union ever, the science community, a vast majority of the thousands of governments which have come and gone. You get it.

Real change happens when we TALK to eachother and put EFFORT into UNDERSTANDING eachother with EMPATHY even if we find ourselves a little disgusted sometimes.

There is no group to join, if you want to help woman's rights, help woman find their place in the world and take part in changing the dynamics and roles of how men and woman interact, there is and has only ever been one way: you have to be an excellent example of your idea of a great woman.

Sort of like Madonna.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

Feminism set woman back so far but hopefully this will be the first step in woman learning that there's no real shortcuts when it comes to earning people's respect. You guys were destined for a very long and painful (overall worthwhile) road from the start of getting equal rights

[Asker]

How am I supposed to help women find their place in the world if I believe a woman's place is the same as a man's: what she chooses? How can i do that alone? What example could I set that can just be ignored as thinking every woman should do what I did instead of what they choose to do? For what you suggest I would need a group most of all! Just to set an example of different life choices.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

The first step is to focus on you. You know, in the Bible it says that while we have a responsibility to help others, our first responsibility is to ourselves.

If you're broke and struggling to find a man you're capable of being in a long term relationship with and you're working a minimum wage job, it doesn't matter what group you're in, you're just another follower pretending to be a vehicle of change. If anything, you're leading people in the opposite direction because groups will always eventually have people at the top who are lying to you.

But if you get out there, try what you think is going to work, be introspective and honest about how your world view is serving you and continue the process of exploreing uncomfortable perspectives, challenging your beliefs - ask any self made successful person, it's like a law of life you'll get where you want to be.

That way, people won't argue with you on the internet, they'll ask you, they'll study you, they'll say they want to be like you. And hopefully instead of starting another group, you'll tell these woman what works for you, and you'll challenge them to come to question even your advice on their journies so they learn the process of personal development. Something society never really taught woman because from the time their children, adults want to coddle, protect and serve women.

People associate feminism with self centeredness, misandry, a chip on the shoulder, undeserved expectations of respect. Amung other things.

Why disrespect yourself by becoming part of any group when you're capable? Probably more capable than you think you are even in your most optimistic moments.

Let me ask you this: what do you want people to see when they look at you?

[Asker]

I don't think you're understanding me. I'm happy with where I am personally—I have a job i love and an awesome girlfriend. I'm not happy with where *society* is. I don't want men and women to choose to live like me. I want them to *be able* to choose to live in a way *they* will be happy.

The best way i know to make systemic changes is through group efforts. The more voices join together the more impact they have on society. Are you really not part of *any* group just because all groups have the risk of corruption? You don't have a political party, or religion, or even a local not-for-profit you volunteer with?

[Telekinetic-Potato]

I mean you hypothetically, didn't mean to come across as assuming those things about you 😂

And it's funny you say that since it was never a conscious effort but ya. I don't support Republicans or democrats for various reasons but I'll just mention as one example our forefathers warned about having a partied system especially a 2 party one.

I stopped calling myself catholic after I started reading the Bible and realized that all the people I thought were "working on themselves" really just had no clue what the Bible was about. Or even their own opinion.

There are some non-profit which I like and have done work for but I've never done work nor would I be particularly interested in working for a non-profit where you're forced into a specific culture.

The ones I've worked with, they're happy just to see anyone helping, liberal or Democrat, polish or hatian, obnoxious or charming.

Whats nuts is it's actually a great example because I have been inspired by many of these people who have many, many beliefs and practices I'm frankly disgusted by. But it doesn't stop me from admiring the good aspects they had and sometimes even modeling my behavior after theirs. And I've seen that not just in non-profit but in school growing up, various jobs I've had even friend groups.

I believe a truly progressive society doesn't need to lean on groups. There should be as few groups as possible and they should be dissolved after accomplishing specific goals (in my made up world anyway lol)

[HawkPerception]

A politically centrist girl. You can also be considered neutral, impartial, or unbiased. You can also be called a mediator or peacemaker.

[Asker]

I'm not neutral. I'm NOT centrist. I want to change things for the better, I just want to focus on different problems, ones that feminists don't seem to care about.

[HawkPerception]

Well then don't call yourself anything. You're denying everything others are saying you are. Just identify as a person

[Asker]

I'm being pretty clear. I want to fight against mysoginy, but feminists ignore a lot of these issues so i must not be a feminist. That doesn't make me anti-feminist or not progressive. I just am trying to find a different group that fights against mysoginy in different areas that feminists ignore.

[HawkPerception]

Non-traditonal gender equality advocate

[Lionman95]

Why do you need a title for it? How about calling yourself a humanist. So you be in favor of humans in general.

[CriticalCatDad]

I guess that makes you right wing or conservative. At least according to feminists and those who are on the left. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Asker]

Lol no, I'm certainly not either of those. I want to FIX things, to IMPROVE them. Not make them stay the same or regress.

[Knightwatch27]

Why need to call yourself anything. Forget the label and simply fight for what you believe in.

[Asker]

That's much easier to do when you aren't alone.

[Shy_Steve]

That's the beauty of not being a Feminist you can call yourself whatever you want.

[Asker]

Yes, but I want to still help. Feminists were trying to help before, but I want to help differently. I can't do that very well as just an individual with no connections now can i?

[Shy_Steve]

Of course you can, It just depends on the problem and how you try and fix it.

[Asker]

The problem is systemic mysoginy. How am I supposed to fix that alone?

[Shy_Steve]

That's like me saying I want to fix Feminists.

It's ridiculous.

[Asker]

I don't care about feminists, they have their own goals it's whatever. They're an independent group not a government that's supposed supposed represent the people. I want to fix the systems that are supposed to be built for us all. That is something we should be able to fix if we work together.

[Snakeyes7]

You don't have to call yourself anything nor do you have to be a part of any group.

[Asker]

I want to help fix this. I want to be part of a group that helps fix this. That's why I want to know.

[Snakeyes7]

If you want my recommendation, try Honey Badger Radio. They are criminally underrated and I think you would enjoy them. They are on Spotify if you want to check them out.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure you don't understand what 'misogyny' means.

[Dargil]

An independent thinker.

[Asker]

That sounds made up. What is the goal of independent thinkers?

[Dargil]

Are you an independent thinker?

[jahaims]

You don't need a title. Just be a person

[Djaay]

Reject.