USA official poverty level is $30,900* for a FAMILY OF 4! 40 hrs a wk at min wage is $15,080 GROSS WAGES! Is this acceptable? What to do if anything?

[DrPepper12]

*$30,900 = 27,610 Euros

11.6% of people in the U. S. lived BELOW the currently defined OFFICIAL poverty level

The official poverty line as currently defined is "three times the cost of a minimum diet in 1963" – meaning it's measured by how much families spent on food FIVE decades ago. The poverty line DOES NOT account for different regions costs of living.

The poverty line is used as a fundamental tool for people in poverty to receive almost ALL FEDERAL benefits such as housing, food stamps, tuition supplements, school lunches, public transportation subsidy, Medicaid, utility assistance & subsidized child care.

Congress hasn't raised the poverty line because they don't want to be responsible for statistically, but accurately, broadening the definition of poverty and increasing the number of Americans below the line by providing accurate data

Congress also hasn't updated the poverty line to reflect widely varying housing costs in different localities.

In 1963, the median household income covered about 34% of the typical home price. By 2022, this percentage had decreased to just 17%, indicating that home prices have grown more than twice as fast as wages over this period.

Congress has not changed the poverty level baseline because that could be viewed as UNFAIR to people living in a few regions with the lowest housing costs, mainly the rural South & Midwest.

For more info:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/12/09/why-federal-poverty-line-not-effective/10827076002/

$30,900 for 4 is a sufficient poverty baseline for my region.

I don't know ANY family of 4 that could survive on that in my region.

[TheRealPepperPotts]

No, it is nowhere near enough. It's delusional to think otherwise. That's $2300/month, which is basically rent or a mortgage payment and maybe a few groceries. By the time housing, gas, vehicle maintenance, insurances (auto, home/renters, health, etc.) are taken into account, most families need around $6K a month in take home to have a basic lifestyle (home, decent food, clothing, auto repair, insurances, investing for retirement, etc.). That's $78k per annum. And that is insane.

We are in a financial crisis, but it hasn't clicked yet. The median home price is 450K, over $50K above what the median income is. Those who bring home the median income are drowning in student loan debt, which is basically a mortgage that prevents them from acquiring their first wealth-building asset; a home. If both work, they are paying student loans and trying to save for a home even as the dream of having a family becomes increasingly unlikely. Not to mention the fact that too much take home affects their income tax bracket and benefits, if any. Add to that the cost of childcare if they do start a family and one parent might as well stay at home.

It isn't the "lazy" that are struggling. It's young families, young couples, singles. It's those who make more than minimum wage, too; double and triple minimum wage. Grab any of this demographic off the street and ask them. They'll explain that they are busting their tails to make life work, but the game has changed and numbers don't lie.

[DrPepper12]

That is a GREAT ANSWER? TY!!!

[TheRealPepperPotts]

@DrPepper12 Of course! Thanks. :) You're a teacher, if I remember correctly, so I am sure you have some thoughts on the education system's role in creating better opportunities for students to succeed after school... :)

[WindAtMyBack]

It's perfectly acceptable for multiple reasons.

The biggest reason is that minimum wage was never meant to support a family of four. That's completely absurd. A single person can easily live on a full time minimum wage job and still put money in the bank.

Second, those poverty numbers are BS. The so-called poverty level is way higher than what it costs to live.

Third, most states have a minimum wage above the federal wage. The federal minimum wage is the minimum for the entire country. That includes places with very low costs of living.

Fourth, people living in very high cost of living cities have no right to complain. Well fucking move to someplace cheaper. Duh.

Fifth, people need to be more responsible for themselves. While a small number of people are truly incapable of making more than minimum wage, the vast majority are. If they don't, that is their choice.

Now, the other side of the coin. Admittedly we are overdue for an increase in minimum wage. It has always been a stair-step rather than a continuous increase tied to inflation. It has always gone up in steps, sometimes being a littler ahead of inflation, and sometimes being a little behind inflation.

Currently it is well overdue. If it followed the pattern since it's inception, we were due for an increase about ten years ago. (I can't remember exactly, but something like that.) BUT, we are not due for anywhere near the kind of increase some people are calling for.

I am not necessarily in favor of having a minimum wage at all. But I am not against it either, so long as it's reasonable. But IF we have it and the pattern of the last 60 years is to continue, we are overdue.

[DrPepper12]

$15 is actually a small ask. If the federal minimum wage had kept pace with inflation since it was established in 1938, it would be approximately $5.41 today. However, if it had kept pace with productivity growth, it would be significantly higher, around $21.50 to $26 per hour. This discrepancy highlights how the minimum wage has not only lagged behind inflation but also failed to reflect productivity gains over the decades. which have instead accrued to corporations & high wealth individuals.
#1. Correct but here we are
#2 False
#3 partially true. A plurality of cities, not states have higher wages than federal minimum.
#4 moving is not the panacea you think it is.
#5 yes they could be doing more but I feel you don't understand how expensive it is to be poor!

Agreed it should be an occasional assistance not lifetime.

[WindAtMyBack]

"$15 is actually a small ask
It's huge. Slightly over $10 would bring us approximately to the average for the last 60 years. A little over $13 would bring us to the highest ever... and that highest point should almost be considered an outlier because it peaked way above the norm.

"if it had kept pace with productivity growth"
Productivity is completely irrelevant.

#2 Absolutely true. Anyone who believes those "poverty" numbers doesn't know what poverty is.

#3 The MAJORITY of states have higher than the federal minimum wage. But that is not the point. The point is that the federal minimum wage is for the entire country, including the lowest cost
places.

#4 If someone lives in a high price area, then moving is a GREAT option. The US has always been a highly mobile country. I have zero sympathy for someone who whines about not being able to make ends meet, yet lives in a high cost of living area and refuses to move.

#5 "I feel you don't understand how expensive it is to be poor!"
I have lived below the so-called poverty level most of my life. The poverty level is a total joke.

[OlderAndWiser]

Yes, it is acceptable because a minimum wage job is not intended to be the sole support for a family of four. It is an entry level wage for unskilled and inexperienced young workers; with experience and training they should move up the pay scale. No one earning minimum wage should contemplate supporting anyone other than themselves on that income.

[SweetDripp]

A minimum wage job is not sufficient to sustain a family of four, but it isn't intended to be. A minimum wage job is an entry level job requiring the most basic of skills and not intended to be a long term sustained position to support a family. Those who have minimum wage jobs typically don't remain at that wage for extended periods either.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

No, a family of 4 could survive on that amount. Do away with Minimum wage like Senator Bernie Sanders wanted to do and make all income a living wage. Such as $20.00 an hour plus higher.

[MisterWack]

Raise The Minimum Wage, Child Tax Credit Benefits, Fight Rising Housing Costs, Less Taxes For Everyday Americans & More Tax On Wealthy! Promote Small Businesses, And Give American Youths A Leg Up! VOTE KAMALA HARRIS & TIM WALZ 🇺🇸💙

[Ladsin2]

I find this to be interesting because we presumably just have a different idea of what the minimum wage is meant to do. I think that the minimum wage should be for kids starting out their first job. It's nice and low so employers are willing to take the risk of hiring some snot nosed kid who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. My first two jobs at 15 paid minimum wage. Then I turned 16 and started working landscaping and my pay went up to $10/hr. Then I became a manager of sorts for the landscaping company at 18 and went up to $16/hr. Then I graduated college and made $18.5 at a psych hospital... etc etc. I find it absurd to believe that any adult with a functioning brain is making minimum wage. McDonald's pays their burger flippers an average of $16/hr. So I guess do with that what you will.

[exitseven]

This is why you work hard, get a good education and find a good paying job. Nobody owes you a living and just because you happen to have kids , the taxpayers should not have to support them.

I lived $500 above the poverty level for a family of 4 when I was younger. I went to apply for food stamps and all I got was a blank stare and a bunch of excuses so thanks for nothing.

[Bricealan]

Why would any responsible man earning 'poverty wages' have a family of 4? That is irresponsible on the face of it.

[molonski2]

What can I say? Just ludicrous concept isn't it , and that minimum wage , and the concept of tipping ( only some ) , its all a recipe for disaster , at some point , all these things will come home to roost.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

This is sooooo complicated given aaaaall the factors, I'm gonna pass on this one lol

[Tomisworthless]

Oh come on now share your wise insight im eager to glean

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Minimum wage is not intended to support a family of 4 people. Your wages are intended to support your labor, not your family. If you want a family, buy some land and start a farm.

[Avicenna]

Your premise is correct here. Now ask yourself why Congress doesn’t want to provide andditional income support to the working poor.

[chrissykerdock]

they set low standards so democrates feel good about themselves

[Anonymous]

That presume 2 people who have chosen to sale their full time labor at minimum wage have more than 3 kids, in a state where that isn't enough.

[gatixek710]

Minimum wage was never intended to support a family. If you’re so inept you’re in your 20s and making $7 an hour, keep your legs closed.

[Anonymous]

Kamala will fix this.

[DrPepper12]

LOL 😂