Who should decide a child's gender: the child, their parents, their doctor, or their government?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

What do you think, and why?

Children should be allowed to decide their own gender.

Parents should be allowed to decide gender for their underage children.

Doctors should be allowed to decide gender for their underage patients.

Government should be allowed to decide gender for its underage citizens.

Updates

1 y

I am not asking HOW a child's gender should be decided.
I am asking WHO should decide it.

Feel free to add on how you think a child's should be decided, but please don't forget to also actually answer the question by saying WHO you think should decide it.

Thank you.

[Joshua_H_1010011001]

Jesus H christ... It's the parents, obviously.

This is so sick.

Gender is not a choice.

It's a definition.

How did we get so backwards, surely it shouldn't mater what gender you are, or race, your a human with value and love.

No child should be encouraged to persue this mind delusion.

Sexuality is different, it's a preference / instinctual knowing, you know what your attracted to... And that's OK.

But to say "I don't feel like a woman, I feel like a man"... How do you know, you can't comprehend what it is, because your not that. It's a completely different experience, set of equipment, hormones, organs, mind, everything.

It's just child abuse with infants and teens.

And adults, it's narcissistic. They know what they are doing and its evil.

Or have been lead down that mind trap and been reinforced by grooming tactics of sick doctors.

You are what you are born as, and that is absolutely OK. You need to learn to accept it and be greatful for what you have.

If your a very feminine man... Great, you wanna hang with the girls, wear fashionable femine cloths and date guys... More power to you, accept who you are.

But don't get going in the girls changing room with my daughter and faming your a girl, your not, your a bloke. It's sick and unstable.

Equally, girls, if your butch, wanna do man stuff, girls irritate you, fine... Drink pints, roll around in dirt, do shit... Whatever suits you, but don't mutilate yourself to fit some mind delusion of somthing your not. You have girl parts, your a girl, a masculine girl... Love it, respect it, own it... It's what you are.

You don't need some dodgy bodged penis cut from your organs by a sick ass surgeon to prove it.

Find a girl you like and just make it work or a femine guy and just do him instead of him doing you lol, whatever, who cares.

Just stop chopping yourself around to fit a narrative... You are the narrative, Dont let them mind fuck you into something your not.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the parents should decide based on a definition that you agree with. Okay. Thanks for answering.

[Joshua_H_1010011001]

The parents have the right to act in the best interest of thier child.

If the parents decide to make a decision different to "my definition I agree with" then... Unlucky kid I guess... And if issues are raised amung the community, necessary authorities can intervene and mediate.

As my definition is factually correct.
If you have a naturaly occurring willy and balls from birth, you are what is discribed and catogrised as "male"

And visa versa for "Female"

Thats just fact, as it's the label for a categorie.

Now talking about masculine and feminine, it's different, but I'm not arguing that.

I know what you are doing and what you are, so no more replys from me... Sicko

[blueonblack22]

@joshua_h_1010011001 👏👏👏

[Joshua_H_1010011001]

@blueonblack22 ❤️

[Rosexøxø]

Decision requires reflection or some type of contemplation.

Science has been discovered, studied, and proven on what distinguishes babies, infants, and people, as male and female.

The appropriate scientists in their time via science, provided us with observable and noticeable traits/ sensory characteristics/ cues that we can find and state the gender of that baby or person.


** Anyone can do this.** Going by the characteristics and the biological definitions it can be stated for certain. Legally, the doctor states what gender the baby is, so that when the ‘baby is of age,’ they can continue to document this as part of their identity cards and information in society. Parents have no disagreement usually because they can see these observable traits and also know the basic biology of male and female of our species. They don’t decide this, it’s just simply stated. Called for what it is. Then when the children are old enough they’ll familiarize themselves and others more, in alignment with the biology and studies we’ve received over the course of history.

Nobody is contemplating things and deciding/determining. And it’s not up to their preference in deciding.

It’s stated conclusively according to the scientific biology. In matter-of-fact terminology.

No ONE person is responsible for this. Even scientists who discovered the chromosomes and contributors of the human anatomy imagery and cycles are all responsible for the descriptions for what we naturally see in nature and within ourselves.

It’s not a king rule/ lordship type of thing or something decreed by a judge. It was a collective effort that was brought about and with no fault in it that we see, everyone follows.

If you asked a parent what their kid’s gender was, they would state it according to the parameters of human biology. If you asked a doctor what the gender of its clients’ babies were, that doctor would state it according to the parameters of human biology. If you ask the children who grow up and learn of human biology from their parents, schools, and doctors, as well as their own critical thinking and self awareness, they would answer about their gender through the parameters of human biology.

No one has had any issues with the observable consistencies of biology and human biology, except for those who wish to identify as other things or switch their identity in a total 180 or all around 360 type of way; the ones who have issues accepting the biological facts.

If you really need a ‘person name’ to who decides this, it wouldn’t even be any of us, but the ones responsible and can be accredited for the discoveries and scientifically consistent studies in their work (s). We simply give recognition to them as we state what we feel we already know (sensory stimuli/ instinct).

This is according to biology.. I think before that, humans already had instinct on what was the gender of each member of the overall species because it was just needed for survival and mating purposes. It’s how we made it this far. 🤷‍♀️ If we didn’t have hetero males and hetero females mating- we would’ve never lived to see this day and age. They didn’t state the obvious things or have a doctor decide it. Before doctors, we just had sensory reception and instinct that let us know who was who and who was stranger/foe and who was family/friendly/etc.

It’s all a part of recognition. Facial recognition; sexual recognition. We recognize; we state; we don’t decide. It’s not something we brainstorm or question. We just observe and we just know. We’ve done it all throughout the history of our human existence and even have the science to back it up in a more rational way.

No one decides. We all state. According to what we know and according to the added help of science. Only those who oppose this or feel the need to question and decide are the ones who contemplated their own sexual preferences for sexual partners, intercourse, and sexual identify of themselves. It’s not a very large demographic but it’s still one that calls for the contemplation of genders, and feels compelled for someone somewhere to decide for everyone or that none decide and everyone choose according to their own preference. But species including ours all throughout time never decided any of this according to preference. It was survival. It was instinct. It was what we were naturally attracted to.

[Rosexøxø]

I couldn’t vote cause no one decides. It’s stated by everyone collectively, except for the small demographic who doesn’t agree.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Decision can be based on all those things, decision doesn't just mean what someone wants or thinks on a whim. If you recognize something based on all this collected previous knowledge built up by many contributors, and you state that it is one thing, you have decided that that's what it is based on all that stuff and what you observed. That's still a decision. I will take you meant that doctors should decide when the child is born, and that what they decide WOULD BE the same as if anyone else had made the decision, since its all based on the same information and observation. The Doctor just happens to be the first person with authority to document the child's gender based on their direct observation and decision. Is that correct or did you misunderstand you?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Did I* misunderstand you

[Rosexøxø]

For your peace of mind and seeking clear answers for this question we can agree and I can certainly vote on doctor, but if societal/ public identification records weren’t necessary and the science wasn’t established we’d STILL all be able to know this we actually wouldn’t need to make any decision about it or have some group meeting to figure it out. It would be second nature- instinct- innate behavior for us to recognize and know the sex of our fellow members within our species. It’s more about knowing not coming to some unanimous consultation or decision.

There’s no need to discuss gender or question it. There’s no need for people to gather and consult each and make some decision for others the gendered member in question or themselves. If you personally need to decide on that and see what gender belongs to then you need peace of mind for yourself.

I just get some vibe you need to decide that for yourself. I could easily let you say doctor as the legal deciding factor but they hold no direct power or influence over the gender of a newborn baby.

[Rosexøxø]

Nobody tells us and we don’t go by rules. It’s an instinct and a natural knowing. It’s what we had years before these evolutionary changes with lgbtq, doctors, scientists, society. Etc. before all that we knew when we encountered males and females and proceeded that way. We didn’t have to hear it from anyone.

So when you say decide I get the impression consultation and contemplation is required. And someone or some people have to be told what is what. And that just isn’t the case.

For YOU in your personal case though and this question. I can say doctor. I can give you that much because I know that doctors document the profile of the baby and what is documented follows that baby until they’re of age and in this present day it follows them until that baby should happen to take it upon themselves to decide their gender. And we know the only ones doing that is of that small demographic. Hetero people don’t see it as necessary to take gender into their own two hands and within their pen on a piece of paper, so that everyone can call them what they personally wish to be called.

I understand you have some frustrations or at least some disagreements with other users here on what they chose to share, and I personally think I expressed and explained my views and the general aspect on this topic rather well, so if you wish to debate, argue, accuse, or state I’m wrong for your own peace of mind- that’s fine.

I won’t go any further. I think it was all clarified and it’s all pretty well self explanatory as long as you have just an ounce of common sense.

Best to you!

And remember, lgbtq has been approved! You’re not the only one, you can be what you want as you see fit. But you can’t change the facts, if that displeases you, I’m sorry.

💯

(I won’t be responding further). Good day.

[Rosexøxø]

Fascinating question by the way :]

[GOLDFISH_smile]

A decision based on instinct made in a split second on your own, and a decision based on decades of science made with group discussion, are both still decisions. I did not mean to imply that there must be deep contemplation or any certain type of decision making process for gender. It could be decided just based on gut feeling or instinct like it used to be. I was just asking WHO should decide it.
It seems like you think the doctor should only be the one to mark down someone's official/recognized gender for the sake of living in a society, but that the individual/child themself should still be the one who decides for themself based on their innate instinct of their own gender, as has been the case long before this modern society.

I hope I understood you correctly. You've definitely been a lot more clear about your beliefs than most other people who answered, so thank you very much for that. You have a good day also.

[Emii_Urashima]

Wow! This is the ultimate trick question. NONE of these answers are correct. You could bet a job at MSNBC today with this post, just include a screenshot of it in your resume. The correct answer that you will strongly disagree with, is for the children to wait until they are 18 years old to decide to remove body parts, which is an irreversible decision that they will have to deal with for the rest of their life. If your preteen child is insistant on having a sex change, ask yourself why? Where did they get the idea? Do a little investigating and you'll likely find it is the child's hyper-woke "teachers. They are putting extreme pressure on kids to be gay or trans. Some of you will argue and deny this. Go ahead. I will just reply by posting LOTS of links from these woke teachers who post videos from their classrooms on Tiktok & Instagram, where their entire classroom is decorated in pride rainbows and plenty of LGBTQ books. In one video, a teacher talked about an exercise she did with her students, where she had groups of them go into a closet, then come out one at a time and announce their sexual orientation. The ones who identified as gay or onreof the 900+ other "genders" were given a treat. The ones who said they were straight were given NOTHING. These so-called "teachers" are indoctrinators. Most of the teachers posting these videos in elementary schools! They have greater success at going after the little ones.
No, parents, doctors and the government should NOT have any say into what you want to call yourself. On the other hand, adults should definitely not try to coerce 7 year olds into a decision that might destroy their life.

[Shoichiro]

Gender and sex used to mean the same thing. Some idiot decided to hijack the the word gender and caused a lot of confusion for no real benefit. If gender used to just be biological sex, and gender is now the "characteristics of men and women that are socially constructed" then I see no use for the current word "gender". It has no utility to me.

Biological sex is useful since we can use it to determine: who can mate with who to produce offspring; which bathrooms people should use; the effects of drugs/hormones/other phenomena on different people, based on their sexual biology etc.. When it comes to gender in the modern way of thinking, I see no utility whatsoever, in fact, I think it wastes precious resources.

This pronoun junk is also ridiculous; I call someone by a pronoun out of convenience, for example, if I'm talking to my acquaintance about someone else, I will use "he" or "she" depending on what I initially believe the person to look like. This has nothing to do with respect, I simply want to convey the information about the person I'm referring to concisely. Someone insisting that I use their ridiculous pronouns just adds complexity to the situation by increasing the amount of information I need to remember. Firstly, they do not have the right to tell me what to call them, and secondly, even if this is about respect, I am not obliged to respect them. I can give my respect to who I want - this pronoun person is certainly not entitled to it.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

You believe gender should not exist and nobody should decide it for anyone else including children, everyone should be genderless? Okay. Thank you for answering.

[Shoichiro]

Don't forget that sex does exist regardless of whether you want it to or not.

You understand that sex exists regardless? OK, thank you for your understanding.

[OlderAndWiser]

You left out the correct answer: God decides!

[MissTrix]

Agreed! Honestly the amount of kids now altering Thier bodies cause they could be another thing is alarming. Also a lot are changing Thier identitys to animals...
Not in a healthy I'm playing way and I'll grow out of it in a month.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who should be the one to say what God decided? Not everyone is religious or has easy time communing with God for answers like this.

[OlderAndWiser]

God is the planner regardless of your belief. You don't need someone to decide. If you were born with a penis, you are a male. If you were born with a vagina, you are a female. There is no need to make this complicated.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay. So God decides and puts the decision as genitals. Now. Who should be the one to say, based on the genitals, what God decided for the child? The child can't speak and doesn't know what vagina or penis is yet when they are born, so I assume not the child...

[OlderAndWiser]

If the baby has a penis, they raise it as a boy. If the baby has a vagina, they raise it as a girl. It's not complicated, unless you can't tell the difference between a penis and a vagina.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

It's nor complicated at all. If that's how you believe it should be decided, okay, but somebody would still have to look at the child's genitals to decide either "yes that's a penis therefore boy" or "yes that's a vagina therefore girl." So who should that be?

[OlderAndWiser]

Do you SERIOUSLY now know how to tell the difference? Everyone else above the age of 9-10 knows, and there is no “decision” to be made.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I assume that you don't want EVERYONE to go around looking at children's genitals to personally decide their gender... it's way better if a specific person just decides it and that's it. Don't u think so?

[OlderAndWiser]

The attending physician in the delivery room usually completes the birth certificate but the sex is obvious to everyone who sees the child.

[AManOnTheWeb]

So when God gives an infant born with a penis the mind of a woman, you agree that that person should consider themselves a woman?

[OlderAndWiser]

@AManOnTheWeb No, an infant with a penis is a boy, not a girl.

[AManOnTheWeb]

@OlderAndWiser I thought you said God decides? Why would God give that infant the mind of a woman if God intended it to be a boy?

[OlderAndWiser]

@AManOnTheWeb How do you know that a baby has the mind of a woman when it is contained within a baby boy's body?

[AManOnTheWeb]

@OlderAndWiser Because when it grows up and gets connected to an FMRI machine it lights up like a woman's brain.

[OlderAndWiser]

@AManOnTheWeb You know, when a child is a newborn, what a scan might show 20 years in the future? You are making a silly argument.

[AManOnTheWeb]

@OlderAndWiser You're missing the point. We know that some kids grow up to have minds different than their sex. We can objectively observe and measure the biology. If you believe in God, then it would follow that God produces at least some people with minds that don't match their sex at birth. We know that there are people born with intersex conditions, is it really that hard to imagine that God creates people with minds that don't match their gentitalia?

[OlderAndWiser]

So every single thought that is in your head now was determined at birth and nothing that has happened since then shaped you in any way?

[MissTrix]

@AManOnTheWeb love how stupid this all sounds! Omg a gender is made up! I'm proving it by screaming everything does not matter!
Yes intersex happens but only one set works. Also they usually decide Thier own sexuality pretty early.
All this intersex porn now is trans after surgery not actual intersex.
Decide your own beliefs and shut up no one listens to those who scream the loudest at others!

[AManOnTheWeb]

@OlderAndWiser That's a straw man. It's like saying that every point Lebron James scored would have to be predetermined, or reject that his genes played any role whatsoever in his success on the court. Of course the reasonable position is that big things like our height, eye color, genitals, propensity for certain mental illnesses, and yes, our gender are likely biologically determined.

[AManOnTheWeb]

@MissTrix Who is screaming? Why does God make people intersex? and they're not only deciding their sexuality, but they're deciding their gender as well. and what does any of this have to do with porn?

[genericname85]

too bad god is not an objectively verifiable source.

[Summeroflove]

Well you can say God or nature determine a child sex/gender. When someone is a adult they can do anything they want so long as they don’t force it on me.

Someone is either born male or female and in very rare cases may be born intersex. But that’s it there is nothing else you’re born as who you’re born as.

Children are taught these things and coached by their parents. Because a boy plays Barbie’s with his sister or a girl plays with a truck or plays outside in the mud. It’s absolute bullshit they’re still a boy or a girl. But their evil parents think that they must be transgender when they’re not.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who is to say what God or nature decided? Neither of them speak verbally to everyone to announce it. So how can their decision be known?

[Summeroflove]

Well by how someone’s born. Do they have a pole or a hole

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay so now I know how you believe a child's gender should be decided. But who do you think should decide it? The doctor when the child is born perhaps? Or someone else?

[Summeroflove]

Well whoever is there who can see a pole or a hole. So if that’s a doctor or whoever. That’s what gets written down I don’t know what else you want me to say

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's fine for an answer if it doesn't matter to you who makes the decision, all you care about is how the decision is made. Thank you for answering.

[Summeroflove]

You’re welcome. My point is that people are born one sex or the other

[Lliam]

Biology decides. If he has a penis, he's a boy. If she has a vulva, she's a girl. Doctors and parents can tell by looking at them. Boys will develop into men and girls will develop into women. Gender is not subjective, it's an objective reality.

1. Questioning their gender would never occur to any child unless someone planted that idea in their head.
Being a tomboy doesn't make a girl transgender and playing with dolls doesn't make a boy transgender.

2. Gender/sexual dysphoria is a mental illness that can be treated with therapy. Most who suffer from it are just gay. And gay isn't a mental illness.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe doctors or parents should decide a child's gender (by observing the child's genitals), or did I misunderstand you?

[Lliam]

Yes. There is no need to go further. But if one did, they would find that girls have ovaries and a uterus. Boys have testes and a prostate. And, of course, there is the DNA factor.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay. Thank you for explaining your answer.

[Lliam]

You're welcome.

[ohsheeT]

I think a parent should listen to a child and understand the child and the reasoning behind what the child is saying and leave it right there and let the child grow without any pulling pushing their opinion onto the child

The parent should always be the best parents they can possibly be with putting a big foundation underneath them with morals values and ethics... Because out of 10 times when you allow that child just free in that situation they're they're going to become their gender if they were born
I think it's wrong for any parent to use manipulation or their opinion or their desire for their want to program any child in that matter

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the child should be the one to decide for themself, without any direct guidance or interference from the parents or anyone else? Okay. Thank you for answering.

[ohsheeT]

0 well if you want to read things into my answer go ahead but why don't we start from the beginning how old is this child first of all when this child comes to you and starts talking to you about who he or she wants to be that's the first thing and then of course.. there's going to be communication. about it there has to be understanding about it.. and then there has to be reasoning about it. And then the parent is going to have to make a very hard choice..

Is it a feeling is it an following is it an obsession. There's many many things that are going to have to happen before you just let the child to decide but once you have all these things weighed out and you figure out if it's a phase I mean this is a very deep subject no you just don't let the child tell you what they're going to do or who they're going to be you need answers first of all then after everything is all said and done that's when the child gets to have their say me personally whatever gender they are I would guide them to be that same person

Because I have known many girls in high school when they were in 10th 11 12th grade say that they were lesbian.. and I know all the reasons why

But to this day right now none of them are lesbian it was a phase they were going through they were trying to find themselves

They didn't want to have boyfriends because they didn't want to go through the bullcrap of having to say no because they didn't want to get pregnant

[ohsheeT]

But to answer your question yes it's going to be their final decision not mine I will guide I will manipulate I will do whatever it takes depending on what I feel and think is really going on to keep them the same gender because it's probably just a phase it's this person is like this so I want to be just like this well tough s*** LOL

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Sorry I didn't mean to read into your answer, I thought that's what you were saying. I'm glad I said that tho so that you could clarify your opinion. So is it that you believe it should be a decision involving both the parent and the child, and how much either way depends on how much child the child is vs how much adult the child is? But either way some decision is effected by both the child and the parent, is that right? Or have I misunderstood you?

[ohsheeT]

No that's pretty much it right there I mean it's a child and depending on how old this child is you have to understand that your brain is not even developed yet and won't even be developed until 18 or older so there are influences on TV on Friends I mean just it could be anything so you have to find out all this stuff you have to definitely be involved that's for sure

[ohsheeT]

My son was 16 years old and he asked me if he could get a tattoo and I said yeah sure you got all excited and I said well when you turn 18 you can do anything you want but until then I don't think you need one
Come on dad come on dad no two more years you can do anything you want and he said okay

He turned 18 messing with said so I just left it alone 22 became a firefighter and a paramedic at 23 he thanked me for not allowing him to get the tattoo and gave him that choice and he said he would have been regretting it if I would have said yes h e said he would have to go have it removed so with both my kids I put a good foundation under them a lot of things they got to make their own choices because they have to understand it's cause and effect that's the real life right there cause and effect and I think every teacher that teaches should teach kids cause and effect or their parents should tease cause and effect because that is life

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

This question looks like a good trap lol, focusing on the Who...

Ofc, said like that, you ensured that the only legitimate decision-maker would be the child haha. Because all the other options would mean that identity is being forced externally upon the child.

The only breach I can think of is to go beyond your question, because, philosophically speaking, I don't believe we really decide who we are. I believe we are, overall and mostly, what has been decided for us, during our construction, development of identity. With luck and time, I also believe we may have some possibilities to question that construction and decide about... A few things, yes, but not the core of personality. Now, where does that leave us?

As a child, can we really decide anything during construction? Good question anyway lol

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Did you read the update? You are free to explain how you believe gender should be decided. I just would appreciate anyone to actually answer and say who they believe should make that decision. Im not talking about such philosophical questions as who we are, I'm just asking about a child's gender in society which must be decided by someone, but i know there has been debate whether a child is mature enough to decide for themself

You can say a parent should decide BASED ON INPUT FROM THE CHILD, you can say doctor should decide BASED ON PHYSICAL TRAITS OF CHILD, but however you believe I would very much appreciate an actual answer.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I did read the update, yes. And I talked about the How, already, going philosophical because our identity has to be connected to philosophy, or sociology, or psychology, or... You know, all these forces combined.

Decisions from parents or doctors or anything are not really decisions, these are statements. However, statements from caretakers have to influence a child, evidently. This is complicated lol

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you are just unsure who should decide in the meantime before the child is an adult and can decide for themself? Okay. It is frustrating to not have a solid answer from so far the only person who seems to consider the question seriously, but I I appreciate that you are actually caring about the answer and thinking about it. Thank you for sharing.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

You're welcome, this topic is quite complex, because yes, I believe that construction is... Construction, it's logical to question identity during... Creation of identity in fact lol. But answers? And how permanent these answers could be? Hard to be sure of anything

[Anonymous]

When I grew up a male was a man and female was a woman. But by today's standards the Sex is determined at birth, so they are biologically a male or female and you can't change you biological sex. And the geneder is either man or woman and that comes later in life I think that is how it works by today's standards?

I don't really understand todays standards and I have no clue what non-binrary is or how today's standards function. Trump won so he will hopefully change it back to the old school way I understand it as and get rid of all the 1 million geneders crap.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe doctors should decide as they used to in America?

[Opinion Owner]

That's what I said.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay thanks I just wanted to make sure. A lot of people got confused by this question.

[MisterWack]

My belief is the child should make that decision at any age, though maybe not allow major irreversible surgery until 18 years old to 21 years old because if the attitude doesn’t change, they do have some sort of gender dysmorphia / is Transgender. Just my thoughts.

Same goes for gender identity by the way since Bisexual, Gay, Straight, whatever doesn’t impact anyone else it is purely for them to take control of their body. I see a lot of heterosexual men celebrate the fact they are Straight time & time again which I love since it is a sense of pride so, why can’t every person without judgement? It’s literally the same thing hence why I put the word ‘pride’.

As long as you don’t harm anyone or hurt anyone, you are fine in my book.

[goaded]

Some things you may not know about Transgenderism!(Old Take)

TL;DR trans people's brains most closely match the structure of the gender they identify with. Wouldn't you still be the same gender if your head could be kept alive without the rest of your body?

The individual should determine it; doctors may perform tests to quantify their arguments or guide their decisions on whether it's ethical to provide treatment. It really doesn't affect most people.

[midnightmoon05]

Healthy humans are decided by nature. When I became pregnant, a child is formed and a gender (m/f) is set while I continued with my pregnancy. I do not have any ability to make any changes while the baby continues to develop into one healthy little human being in the 9-10 months term. Both kids came out healthy and growing up to be decent human beings to do greater things for our society.
Nowadays, humans have messed up our gene pool by eating strange things and forming ideas that one can do whatever they want… the consequences? They want to change nature. So we have freaks running around confused calling they have rights to change other people.
These are a small % but causing lots of trouble rather than being productive citizens.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Cool ideas. Would you like to answer to the question?

[midnightmoon05]

My first sentence

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who says what nature decided?

[midnightmoon05]

Nature!!!
Unless there is something/someone greater than nature!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Not everyone is religious or can easily communicate with nature for answers like that... What should be done in a situation like that where neither the parents or doctor or the child are religious like that and can't just ask nature what she decided?

[midnightmoon05]

Trust nature… not ask.
Nature is not connected to religion.
The child is not part of the equation.
Don’t let the doctor decide.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

How do you know what nature decided to trust nature, if you cannot ask? This seems very religious..

[midnightmoon05]

If you don’t understand natue… good luck to you. Bye
Don’t fuck with them!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Don't fuck with who? Nature? You are being very cryptic about this...

[overlord337645]

none of them in truth i can say im a girl but at the end of the day im always a boy yes i can have surgery to get girl bodyparts and all but i was born a boy so while I will always support the transgender population I feel like as for me personally no matter who says what I am a boy and I can't physically change that even if I got the surgery and then started to look like a girl and so fourth. (also since ik this will probs make someone mad this is just an opinion and I am not against transgender people in any way so please do not say im a horrible person or dont like people because of that)

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the child should make that decision for themself, as you would want to for yourself? Or am I misunderstanding

[overlord337645]

im just saying anyone can make it but there is no definite way to prove it if that makes sense

[overlord337645]

like i can say im a girl and thats my choice but im a boy no matter what i do cause i was born a boy

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yes that makes sense. Only you would know whether you're "just saying it" or whether it's actually true after all. Same for anyone including children.

[RingOfFire]

The individual is the only one who can decide whether they want to make believe they are the opposite sex or not. It's no one else's business. And a child is not old enough to make that decision.

So the answer is *** NO ONE ***.

When the child becomes an adult they can make believe they are anything they want.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe children should remain genderless until they are adults? Or did i misunderstand you?

[RingOfFire]

They are not genderless, they are either male or female. Once they are adults they can call themselves anything they want and do whatever they want to their own bodies. But not before.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay so someone SHOULD decide what gender they are while they are still children? Who should do that?

[RingOfFire]

No that is not what I am saying. Nature or God, whichever you choose decided whether they would be a male or a female when they were born. Whichever one they are is the one they will be for life. But if they decide as an adult that they want to make believe they are the other gender, they can do so. That decision should not be made by anyone after they are born and before they are adults.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay, so nature or God decides, but who says what they decided? Since they don't verbally speak to tell people what they decided the child's gender is.

[RingOfFire]

DNA... it's not a subjective thing. Every cell in your body contains the code that identifies whether you are a male or a female from birth to death. It cannot be changed just because you wish it would or make believe it did.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

DNA also does not verbally speak to people. If you believe someone should decide by viewing the child's DNA, who do you think should be the one to do this? The child's doctor?

[RingOfFire]

Not sure I understand your question. Determining if someone is male or female is simple. Of course a doctor could do it. They do it for every single child who is born at birth... and that's it. Never needs to be done again because it never changes.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yes that is exactly what I was asking. Thank you for explaining your answer.

[RingOfFire]

Just to be clear, they don't perform a DNA test on every child born. They can determine if they are male or female by their genitalia. They don't have to guess or do any DNA tests.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yes I know that. It's good to be clear tho so thanks for double checking.

[Kelley1]

None of the above. The government should not be involved. Doctors should only give advice. It may be expensive but parents can do things to choose if a boy or girl is born. After a child is born, at least for a while since the parents made the child, they own the child which they can kill or do whatever they choose. However, it is not long before other are involved and should have an input. A bit later, parents should and almost always do listen to their child.

[Daniela1982]

No one, as God has already decided what they will be. No one totally likes everything about their life, but then we all have to live it and make the best of it. Some would not be where they are if they had been the other sex, such as the very rich. Transgenders seem to get really mixed up emotionally and some even commit suicide, more than usual.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you are a gender abolitionist and believe gender shouldn't exist? Or did you perhaps misunderstand my question?

[Daniela1982]

Or maybe you didn't understand my answer. No one but God should decide. You really want some teacher telling your kid that they want to be a female?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No, I think the kid should decide for themself. I think I did misunderstand your question tho. Could you clarify for me, how would someone know what God decided for the child's gender?

[Daniela1982]

Simple, they would be born what God intended for them to be. You are basically saying you know better than the Creator who made them. What if you made a clay statue of a girl you had a crush on. Now someone comes along and says, no, it should be a boy, and then they remake your clay statue into a boy. What would you have to say to that?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

But how would someone know what God intended for the child to be? Should they ask her directly? Should they observe some physical traits of the child, and decide based on that evidence what God has decided for the child's gender? Should the child do this themself, or should someone else do it for them? That's what I'm asking.

[Daniela1982]

Did you not understand my reply? " they would be born what God intended for them to be", that is how you would know. If you were born female, that is what God intended you to be.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No I don't think I do understand. I'll try the analogy with the clay statue.

If I made a Clay statue of a woman and then give it to someone else, but I dont tell them that it is a woman, how should they decide what I have decided the gender represented by the statue is? Should they ask me directly? Should they look at the statue itself for certain traits of its appearance as evidence of my decision? In this analogy the statue can't do this itself, but should the person who owns the statue be the one to decide what I have decided or perhaps some sort of expert in Clay statues should instead?

That's what I'm confused about. Can you explain please. I am not confused about you saying God decides, I am confused about how you believe someone can say what God has decided, and who should that person be who gets to say what God decided about the child's gender?

[Adel50]

God. Whatever gender you're born with is the gender you are.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Cool but God's still in the habit of only speaking to people 1 on 1. Should the child pray for an answer to what their gender is themself, or should their parents or perhaps a priest intercede for them?

[Adel50]

I meant that when a child is conceived, God determines the gender the child will become, and so it shall be.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yeah but who is gonna ask God? Or do you plan on the 2nd coming or God coming to earth happening REAL soon and then they can just verbally tell the child what their gender is?

[Adel50]

Let’s put it this way: the gender the child has at conception is the child’s gender.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay and who should decide that? I assume not the child since they will only be a cell at that moment. Do you plan to have all sex be observed by scientists now so that the moment of conception can be witnessed and immediately the gender can be decided by... a doctor? A scientist? WHO?

[Adel50]

During development, a child either develops a male or a female sexual system. If it develops the male sexual system, then its gender is male, and vice versa.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Do you believe you personally should decide the gender of every child on earth based on this rule?

[Adel50]

Yes.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay. At keast this is an actual answer to the question, even if it is a ridiculous one. Thank you you are only the 2nd person to give any real answer.

[Adel50]

What's ridiculous about it? More importantly, what is gender?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

The idea that you personally decide every individual child's gender of the whole world is ridiculous. No one would have time ot ability to travel to every birth every day or to have everyone travel to them to have the decision made. It is impossible. Realistically even if you were put in charge of that, you would need to outsource the decision making just for the sheer volume of children on the planet.

For the purpose of this question I am talking about both legal and social gender. That means the mark F M or X on birth certificate and personal IDs, and the social roles and norms a person lives in (daughter/son, what appearance they are expected to have, how they are expected to speak and act, etc.)

[Adel50]

So, gender is "social roles and norms a person lives in (daughter/son, what appearance they are expected to have, how they are expected to speak and act, etc.)"?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's "social gender."

[Adel50]

What is gender as a whole?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's not needed for this question. Do you still say you personally should decide it for all children?

[Adel50]

I already answered your question. Now I'm just making inquiries.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay.

[Adel50]

So are you going to answer it or not?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Am I going to answer what?

[Anonymous]

Their DNA should decide their sex. Anyone can identify it. When they're adults, they can decide to dress up as the opposite sex and trick drunk people into getting SAed. Totally their discretion.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

THANK YOU FINALLY. So you believe anyone should be allowed to determine a child's gender (if they can access and interpret their DNA). Cool thanks for the first real answer so far.

[FreyaRed]

Parents. According to civil right parents take responsibility for their children until they are 18 (in most countries). Responsibility comes with the burden or privilege to make choices for a child.

[BCRanger10]

Nobody chooses it. It is established at the moment of conception.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

By who?

[BCRanger10]

What's that supposed to mean?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who establishes the gender of the child at the moment of its conception? And who observes this to relay the information to the child & parents so they know how to care for it when/if it's born?

[BCRanger10]

"Who establishes the gender of the child at the moment of its conception?" If you're asking whether someone consciously and intentionally chooses the child's gender, I'd have to wonder where that idea comes from. The man has the x and y chromosomes, which determine the sex of the child, but the man doesn't consciously make the decision.

"And who observes this to relay the information to the child & parents so they know how to care for it when/if it's born?" You'll need to elaborate further there as well.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

You said it is established at conception, so I asked who does that? You can explain what you meant differently if I've misunderstood it somehow. I was just asking for more specific answer.

[BCRanger10]

Then that would come back to what I said in the previous reply. An individual sperm cell carries either an x or a y chromosome. The egg has neither. So when the doctor or nurse looks at the results of the test, they're just noting what's already happened: that either a male or female was conceived.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay so the doctor or nurse is the one who observes and relays the info to the parents. Got it thanks.

[BCRanger10]

What's the issue then?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Nothing. Thank you for explaining what you meant.

[Anonymous]

No one "decides" a child's gender, nor is their gender "assigned" at birth. The doctor records the child's gender based on whether there is a penis or a vagina. So there's the answer.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the doctor should decide. Okay. Thank you for answering.

[CuriousCat222]

I think that the child should get to choose. There is no one else that should be able to make the decision for them. It isn't realy anyone else's place to try and determine the gender of child or anyone for that matter. Just because someone might be born with a penis (XY chromosomes) does not automatically mean that they will identify as a man. SEX DOES NOT DETERMINE GENDER.

[Garud]

if i have two eyes then i have two eyes, the child also know whether he/she also has two eyes or not.
so children can decide this themselves whether to let fools enter their minds or not

[jjj101010]

I don’t think it’s something that is decided, it’s just a factual statement, unless u mean who is the first person to know what gender the child is? I would guess it is the person who does the ultrasound around the 20 week mark of pregnancy, but if it’s not spotted at that stage then it will be the first person to so sees it when the baby comes out.

[MrPiercedD]

You have: boys, girls and very small amount of people with both genitals.

As long as you have vagina or penis then you are a girl or boy.

If you have a penis and you feel that you are a girl, it doesn't mean that your gender is a girl - you are still a boy. You want to be a girl? Have a surgery and remove your penis with balls and make doctors create you a vagina.

From all the letters of the alphabet from LGBTQ+ it's a sexual orientation, not a gender.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay. Who should look at the child's genitals to decide their gender based on that? The child themself? The parents? Doctor?

[genericname85]

the doctor. and i'm not talking about that sort of doctor who's trying to sell you "gender affirming care". i mean an actual medical doctor who had at least some basic class about actual biology in their university time.

[genericname85]

and besides. gender is not a "decision". it's a fact that you can objectively determine. no "opinions" needed in the process.

[HelpfulWoman]

the kids once an adult. otherwise go by their assigned at birth gender ( and raising neutral if born with both parts for instance)

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So, while they are kids, you believe the doctor should decide (based on sex)?

[HelpfulWoman]

i believe they should be brought up as what they present as until they can start verbally communicating their wants.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

What do you mean what they present as? If they can't verbally communicate their wants then how can they present as anything?

[slatyb]

As a practical matter, what does this mean? Personal name and pronouns? Up to the child. Which bathroom? Same answer.

[Aimée__LJ]

It's not really a decision but the person themselves should make the choice on how they want to present themselves

[CuriousMoonFox]

Chromosome types are not something that can be decided by anyone.

So the should question is pointless and indicative of modernity's contempt for the more deterministic aspects of reality.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If you think gender should be decided based on chromosome types, okay, who should be the one to do that? The doctor, since they are likely to understand about chromosome?

[CuriousMoonFox]

I don't think you understand. What I said was people should stop asking who should decide because sex is not something anyone can decide.

Whether someone has XX or XY or any rare deviation inbetween is not the result of a decision. Neither the child, the parents, the doctor nor the government has decided or can decide that someone is born with a certain set of chromosomes so the question "who should decide?" is absurd because it is already "decided" from the very beginning.

You can debate on whether to label XX people and XY people as women and men but that doesn't change anything about them being XX people and XY people.

The problem with contemporary constructivism is its belief that every aspect of human reality is a social construct. Anatomical sex isn't. So the very idea that the biology of a person is the result of a decision made by any person whatsoever is a preposterous expression of a desire to pretend to be in control of something that is uncontrollable.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Someone has to do a DNA test, look at chromosomes, and sat "this is boy/girl". Otherwise if nothing is ever decided by anybody then no children would be any gender, they would all be genderless. Is that what you are wanting, or are you wanting somebody to decide BASED ON the chromosomes?

[CuriousMoonFox]

Ah yes, practical application. In the vast majority of cases xy people have a penis and xx people have a vagina. It is these organs gynecologists identify during an ultrasound to determine whether the baby is male or female. No DNA testing needed and certainly no decision. Because decisions require a choice. Is there a choice to say "the baby has a penis" even though it has a vagina? Does a baby have a vagina because someone decided that it has a vagina? And does it stop to have a vagina when someone decides it has a penis?

The only time when the notion of decision is valid is in exceptional cases in which a baby has either both or neither of the typical sexual organs and / or the chromosomal identifiers. I assume this debate only exists because of these rare exceptions?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

There is always a choice. There are wrong/incorrect choices. Do you think the only things that are decisions are ones where there are no wrong answers? Bc that's a very strange view. Or have I just misunderstood you?

Either way thank you for clarifying what doctor you believe should make the decision and when (in the vast majority of cases). This is not a debate I am just wanting to know different opinions about it. I am not here to argue about what opinion is "best"

[CuriousMoonFox]

Sorry if I sound argumentative but you are making me despair 😂 I don't want to argue about what opinion is the best either. What I do want is to point out that some things are not a question of opinion, choice or decision. Is a skeleton dead or alive? Who should decide?

Anyway, thank you for the discussion. Have a thumbs up.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Opinion and decision are VERY different tho. Is that what everyone has been confused on? Has the word decision been fucked up to now just mean opinion? That would explain why so many people are not understanding what I am asking, and why i am not understanding very many answers. But no when I say decision here i mean in the traditional sense, that it is something that must be done for important things and it absolutely can be done wrong. It's very different to ask someone to make a decision on something real than it is to simply ask their opinion or hypothetical. Thumbs up you too for discussing also. I think this was helpful to understand

[DJB72]

It's decided at the moment of conception, by the overall Creator.

Who should establish if the 20kg teenage child is overweight? It's exactly the same - a mental illness.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who should be the one to say what the creator decided at the moment of conception? Not everyone is religious or can easily communicate with God at the moment of conception to ask the gender like that.

[DJB72]

At the point of conception the DNA chromosomes are determined as XX or XY

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So God signifies her decision by chromosomes. Okay. Who should check chromosomes for God's decision sign at the moment of conception? Should the parents? That would be tricky. Prolly a doctor would be best don't u think?

[BikerCD]

A, B, and C. The government needs to stay out of private matter and soo many politicians are braindead half alive zombies. I am talking about both Democrats and Republicans to be clear

[Massageman]

God determines their sex. Period. This is not rocket sincere, people: just simple biology!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who should be the one to say what God decided? Not everyone is religious or has easy time communing with God for answers like this.

[TheStaleMarshmellow]

Government obviously, (Social credit has been increased)

[Danny_dan92]

The doctor. Afterall they’re the medical professional. So they know what is what.

[jshm2]

There should be no gender argument to begin with.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

You believe gender should not exist?

[andreasderjuengere]

Nature does it. No outside assistance is required :D

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Actually most people cannot speak directly with nature to ask what gender she has decided the child is. So yes, outside assistance is still required in most cases.

[andreasderjuengere]

Nature is 'neutrum' ... you may be right :D

[Anonymous]

No one "decides", it is what it is.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's the thing, it isn't unless humans say so. Even if you believe in very strict rules for how gender should be decided, that's not what I'm asking. I'm just asking who should make that decision. Do you care at all to have an opinion about who should be in charge of that?

[Opinion Owner]

My opinion is that no one has a say in it. Saying that someone has a say in it is to say they can call whatever they want. That doesn't mean they would be right. It's not subjective.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Even if it is 100% objective someone still has to decide. Like diagnosing an illness there is a right and wrong answer, but someone still has to say that answer. I'm asking you who do you think should be the one to decide?

[Opinion Owner]

And I'm telling you no one. If a doctor misdiagnoses a patient, that doesn't then mean that the patient has the illness the doctor diagnosed. It means the doctor is wrong. You asked for my opinion, and I've given it. I don't need you to agree, but you aren't going to argue me into saying anything different.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you are also a gender abolitionist and believe gender shouldn't exist. Fascinating...

[Opinion Owner]

Now you want to tell me what I am? I see, you're one of those that doesn't want discussion, you want to tell everyone they're wrong and feel superior. Seriously, get over yourself.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If you believe gender should exist, then you believe SOMEONE should decide it. Even if they decide based purely on observing some objective physical trait of the child, SOMEONE still has to decide. Yet you refuse to answer who and even say NO ONE should decide. There is no way that no one could decide and gender still exist, so either you don't really believe that no one should decide or you don't really believe that gender should exist. Which is it?

[Opinion Owner]

I've answered you. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't change it. You can post a quote, but you don't get to dictate how people answer.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Your answer was that of gender abolitionism. But you say you are not an abolitionist. So I assume you mistakenly gave an answer that doesn't actually say what you believe, or you are lying. If you refuse to clarify the contradiction of your opinion I will have to just take your word for your answer and assume you are lying about NOT being a gender abolitionist. This will not make either of us happy. Oh well.

[Opinion Owner]

Seriously, get over yourself. I couldn't give a shit less how you take my answer.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

There is only one possible way to take your answer. Sorry you lied I guess.

[Opinion Owner]

Again, get over yourself. I know it hurts your little soul that you can't control how people think, but there's nothing 💔 can do about it, so just accept it.

[Kelly6]

@GOLDFISH_smile Parent, because CHILD is child.

[kaucky1]

If it falls off them is because of one volo mostly all guys gotta be a girl for day to month or when seems fit to man up because girls growing beards not being satisfied

[GOLDFISH_smile]

What?

[Anonymous]

It’s decided by what typ of sperm entered the egg - Y sperm or X sperm. There’s nothing to discuss.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the child's doctor should decide.

[Anonymous]

If we are going to listen to kids making the shots, then ditch public education school systems that are free! They brainwash kids so much! In fact it’s mandatory to take ur kid to school or you’ll have child services on your butt

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay, so kids are out. Who is in? Who do you think SHOULD make that decision?

[Staximus]

Biology decides a child's gender, not idiot liberals

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who should say what biology decided? If it has to be someone smart, should it be the doctor?

[Staximus]

People do not decide what gender somebody is

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe nobody should have any gender? Or everyone should decide for themself their own gender, including children? Or have I misunderstood you?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Somebody has to, or the child would just be genderless.

[Staximus]

Are you slow or something

[Staximus]

They are either born a girl or a boy

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay, then who decides that? If biology decides, then who says what biology decided since biology isn't a person who can announce or document its own decision on this?

[Twalli]

While people should decide their own gender, I don't think you can make a truly informed decision until you're at least 18.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Exactly so what should happen b4 then? Should the child still get to decide even tho their decision may not be as informed as it could be once they're adults? Or should the decision be temporarily taken on by the parents or someone else, or even shared between the child and someone else? Answering after 18 is less concerning issue.

[Twalli]

I don't think they can change before 18, they can desire to be treated as such and experience life as a different gender while still having the genetialia of the gender they were born as.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Sorry I'm confused by this. Deciding gender does not mean deciding whether to dress a certain way or have any sort of treatment done. Those are one a medical decision, other every day decision I certainly hope most kids can dress themself by like 10 at least. Either way those may be related, but they aren't what I'm asking about now.

[shortster]

Gender in humans is decided by our DNA; specifically by the presence of absence of the SRY gene typically found on the Y chromosome.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's a way gender can BE DECIDED, but I'm not asking about that rn. I wanna know WHO you think should do the deciding. If you think it should involve interpreting DNA then I assume a doctor would be the one to do it. Is that correct, or did I misunderstand you?

[shortster]

I don't think that a person's gender should be decided by anyone. And should only be observed. Observation of a person's genitals is typically all one needs to do to figure it out. Though some individuals have a confusing looking genitalia, and in those highly rare instances, a DNA test would be required to figure it out.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay, so it can be decided by anyone, as long as the decision is based on genitalia or on DNA? Is that right?

[shortster]

Observed not decided.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Hoe can you observe something and not decide whether it's there or not, or what it is? Do you look at a car and go "I can't decide what that is, even tho it looks like a car"?

[shortster]

Observation is not a decision. You recognize the car you don't decide it is a car. It was created as a car before you ever saw it.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No, but u use observations to make decisions. If you recognize something it's easy to decide what it is. If you don't recognize something it may be harder (like a regular car vs some weird new fangled car that doesn't quite look like a car). You can observe something you don't recognize and make a wrong decision about what it is. That doesn't mean you didn't make a decision about it.

[shortster]

So when you look at me you decide my race?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I can, or i can remain undecided. This is how all decisions work...

[shortster]

So if you look at Clarence Thomas you could decide that he is Asian? Or Elena Kagan is Hispanic? Perhaps Amy Coney Barrett is African? Ketanji Brown Jackson is white?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I don't know those names and I'm not going to look up pictures of them or try to decide their race. How about you? When you look at me or those other people, do you decide our gender right away? Or do you remain undecided until you have more information besides just our appearance?

[shortster]

They are all US Supreme Court justices. I only observe and recognize; I don't decide their gender.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you don't believe just anyone should be allowed to decide a child's gender? Or is it just your personal choice to opt out of deciding other people's genders?

[shortster]

Not just children, but anyone's gender. It is not a choice for someone to make, it is a reality to be recognized.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you're just using recognize in replace of decide ig, and do think anyone can decide it.

[shortster]

No, you can't decide what reality is. You just have to accept it as it is.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yes, you can decide what reality is. And you can get it right or wrong.

[CaptainSmartass]

Biology should. You can't argue with biology.

Simples...

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay, and who says what biology decided? Are you talking about like scientists who have studied it? Or what?

[seeyounexttuesday]

A gender isn’t a decision. You’re born a boy or a girl. Did you miss elementary school

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So the doctor should decide when they write boy or girl? Okay. You could just say that.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Do you have trouble reading? It’s not something someone decides. It’s what you are. Does the doctor have to decide what species you are?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Doctors don't write down human. Historically, governments have actually been the ones to decide whether someone counts as a human or not... I dont rlly wanna get into that tho and i don't think you do either. Yes, gender is something that needs to be decided. Otherwise the child will just be genderless, and I don't know if very many children OR parents would like that way of doing it...

[seeyounexttuesday]

You’re really not smart are you. A boy comes out of the mother it’s a boy. A girl comes out of the mother and it’s a girl. It’s not a decision that has to be made any more than the baby has a head.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

WHO SAYS it's a boy or it's a girl? Does a voice just speak from nothing in the room as soon as the baby is born to announce this? Does the doctor just hold the certificate up and a magic hand appears and writes it down? I know this does not happen. You are skipping literally the only step in the process that i am asking you about.

[seeyounexttuesday]

No one has to say. It’s a boy or a girl. You can tell when they’re born. Have you never seen a human naked?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

WHO can tell when they're born? We are so close to reaching an understanding. Please just explain who you were referring to with the pronoun "you" in the sentence "You can tell [the child's gender] when they’re born"?

[seeyounexttuesday]

Obviously I’m not referring directly to you, because you seem unable to understand what a boy or girl is.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I know. That's why I asked who ARE you referring to?

[seeyounexttuesday]

Every person who isn’t a moron.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I know you don't mean that literally every person who isn't a moron should look at the child naked to tell their gender. Please try to take this seriously...

[seeyounexttuesday]

I guess if it’s confusing you, you’re the moron.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I'm not the one who can't answer a question even after having it broken down and extra extra made very clear to me. I'm just gonna assume you mean that anyone including the child should have full authority to decide the child's gender, as long as they do it by looking at the child naked.

[seeyounexttuesday]

again, gender isn't a decision that has to be made. It simply is. You don't need a team to decide what color the kid's eyes are.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No bc the child decides the color of their eyes. Simple. Unless ur bad at seeing color then maybe the person at DMV will put a different color down on ur driver liscence, but what's on your liscence doesn't decide it. Still u are one who has final say as long as you don't decide so wrong that it's obvious lol

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Do u rlly think gender is some magical special trait that nobody can decide yet it is still always there and everyone somehow knows it? Sounds very strange way to think about it, & does not line up at all with other things you've said about how u think gender should be decided.

[seeyounexttuesday]

No you idiot, a child does not decide the color of their eyes.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yes they do. When learning their colors parents ask them what color ur eyes? & the kid looks & says. If they get it really wrong the parents say no try again, but if they know colors they will decide good & that will be it. U telling me someone just told u what ur eyes color is & didn't even ask you? From what I've heard & seen that's strange.

[seeyounexttuesday]

You have got to be the dumbest mother fucker on this site. It's a tough competition, but you did it. Congrats.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

& ur the fucking best at avoiding direct questions.
Do u rlly think gender is some magical special trait that nobody can decide yet it is still always there and everyone somehow knows it? Sounds very strange way to think about it, & does not line up at all with other things you've said about how u think gender should be decided.

[seeyounexttuesday]

You just typed that a child "DECIDES" their eye color.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who told you what your eye color was when you were a child? Do you even remember asking anyone what color your own eyes are?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Also AGAIN you avoiding the question...

[seeyounexttuesday]

No one had to tell me what color my eyes were. No one made a decision.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No one told you? So you decided yourself. Just like most kids.

Anyway can you answer the question now?

[seeyounexttuesday]

No, I didn't decide. They were what they are. No decision necessary.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you don't know what your own eye color is?

[seeyounexttuesday]

Of course, which is why it's not a decision anyone had to make. How are you this fucking stupid?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Wait fr you don't know your eye color? I've never met someone like that... So do you rlly think no one can know a child's gender? That still goes against what u said earlier tho... it would be easier if u just gave a straight answer...

[seeyounexttuesday]

dude at this point just shut up. You're being a retard.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Im not the one who doesn't know what my own eye color is. 🙄

[seeyounexttuesday]

Where did I say I didn't? I'll wait.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Me: "So you don't know what your own eye color is?"
You: "Of course"
Hope u didn't wait too long

[seeyounexttuesday]

Did you decide your eye color?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yes just like everyone else I know lol. So do you really not know yours?

[seeyounexttuesday]

How did that decision process go? Did you research which eye colors were most popular?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No lol. I just looked in the mirror. My eyes are easy tho ig if urs are like a mix or hazel or some shit u may have to look up some more pictures to compare, or ask someone else what they think. But for me it was very simple decision, I'm surprised you have never done this in 60 years that is real hard to believe man

[seeyounexttuesday]

Why didn’t you decide they were blue?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Bc I didn't think they look blue. Duh. How do u normally decide shit?

[red-lipstick-girl]

God decides and they live accordingly.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who says what God decides? Is this something only the child can know by hearing directly from God personally? Or should someone else intercede on behalf of the child to hear God's decision?

[Wraith_Cemetery]

Exactly

[Jerre]

I think children should decide, BUT only when they are 18 or older

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's exactly what I'm asking for, below 18. When they are children. Should they be forced to remain genderless before 18? Or should someone else decide for them in the meantime?

[PsychicBoobs]

The kid is who they are regardless.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the kid should decide. Okay, thank you for answering.

[PsychicBoobs]

I don't think they would decide. You are wired how you are.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If they don't decide then they would just be genderless. Most people aren't wired that way.. most people decide either girl or boy..

[PsychicBoobs]

Are you genderless? Have you worked around them? Most of them do not decide they stay neutral fearing social pressures and abuses.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I work in a daycare. The kids rarely give a shit about gender they are very young still, it's their parents who tell them they're a girl or boy. They certainly aren't raised genderless from what I've seen. I'm not genderless either, and I wasn't raised genderless by my parents. How about you? And do you think your experience way is the way it should be?

[PsychicBoobs]

I've worked with a lot of autistic children, teens and adults. Though a spectrum, a large percentage lean heavily neutral. Things tend to be as they are. These things are not taught or learned even in mentally impaired individuals such as down syndrome.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Wow you work with kids that are mostly genderless? I thought that was very rare. Fascinating. I'm glad they are allowed to be neutral and don't have to pick a side tho, good for them.

[GlowUpGirly5]

Get off here crying about gender. Be the gender you were born with or go advocate 🤣

[Kingofkings1992]

No decides anyone’s gender. It’s determined at birth

[GOLDFISH_smile]

... by who?

[Kingofkings1992]

Chromosomes

[GOLDFISH_smile]

How do you ask a chromosome what gender it has decided a child is?

[Kingofkings1992]

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Exactly. So how about a real answer now? Who do you think should decide?

[Kingofkings1992]

No one decides

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So children should be genderless?

[grega239]

Nature decided already

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who says what nature decided? Not everyone is religious or can easily communicate with nature for answers like that...

[grega239]

I didn't say anything about religion or communicating with nature.

Nature said :xy is male , xx is female.
End of debate.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So who should look at to see whether it's xx or xy? Doctor? So you think doctor should decide (based on what "nature" decided).

[grega239]

Genitals are the most obvious indicator. Tests could be run to see what chromosomes are present.
A doctor doesn't decide. He just states what he observes

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Right sorry. So Nature decides the child's gender and puts certain genitals, chromosomes, etc to signify that decision, and then a doctor looks at the genitals to see what gender Nature has decided. Is that what you believe?

[grega239]

If a baby has a dick its male. If it has a vag its female.
End of debate.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

And doctor is the one to look and say so?

[grega239]

The nurse can look and say so. The parents can look and say so

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay. Thank you for answering.

[4ngelic]

the doctor at birth

[Anonymous]

Parents, before the child was born they can see on the medical ultra-sound device.

[exitseven]

why not leave it up to chance?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Even in that case, someone would have to say what the chances decided. Like if it was by a country flip, someone would still have ro flip the coin and say what side it landed on, what gender that side means the child is.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Coin**

[exitseven]

When my kids were born the doctor told us when the were born. born.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay. Do you think that's how it should be done?

[RageBabe]

We are made in the image of God.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I agree. Would you like to answer the question?

[DrPepper12]

It's a dialogue between parent n child.

[jahaims]

The chromosomes determine gender

[GOLDFISH_smile]

How do you ask a chromosome what gender the child is? And who should ask it?
(Or you could give me a real answer)

[es20490446e]

Nature.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Who says what nature decided? Not everyone is religious or can easily communicate with nature for answers like that...

[es20490446e]

I just have to look down.

[es20490446e]

And see this instrument of power.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

so the child themself decides (by looking down)? Okay. Thanks for answering

[es20490446e]

My dick looks at me. He decided to be a dick.

You are being difficult.

[es20490446e]

Wasting my time.

[Anonymous]

The chromosomes XY or XX.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you also believe the child's doctor should decide.

[Opinion Owner]

Do you think that doctor decides if the child will get xx or xy chromosomes?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

You cannot ask a chromosome what gender the child it is part of is. Someone has to make that decision. Please be clear in your answer: who should decide?

[Opinion Owner]

The one who decides is the chromosome, i already said that. It depends on which chromosome reaches the egg during the fertilization process, x or y.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Chromosomes cannot speak. Do you mean that you think someone should decide based on observing the chromosomes? If so, who?

[AviatorTom]

I vote for Biology.

[D_Bone_Steak]

@AviatorTom Yes! This!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

How does one speak to biology?

[AviatorTom]

XX chromosomes = female = woman
XY chromosomes = male = man

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay so you believe a doctor should decide by looking at the chromosomes. Could have just said that..

[Jennz6]

God has already decided

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay, and who says what God decided?

[emeraldsaphire]

What if the gods decided to let us pick our own gender? After all they gave us free will

[Jennz6]

@emeraldsaphire God already decided, God said it

[GOLDFISH_smile]

You heard him speak to you abd tell you your child's gender? That's incredible. But not every parent is religious. What should happen in those cases?

[Jennz6]

Tell them to pray 🙏 about it

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So you believe the parents should be the ones to say what God decided their child's gender is (by praying and asking directly)? Okay. I guess if they don't get an answer right away they should raise the child genderless in the meantime?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Also if they are of a religion that has multiple Gods, does it matter which one they ask?

[Jennz6]

There’s only one God

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So every parent of every religion (and non religios parents) must pray to your God to know the gender she has decided for the baby? Okay... the question still stands, what if they don't get an answer right away? Should they raise the child genderless until they hear an answer from a God they may not even follow?

[Jennz6]

@GOLDFISH_smile what made you ask this question?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I want to know who people think should decide, since many people nowadays are saying it should be for the child to decide, and many other people are saying no the child shouldn't be allowed to decide, and all the others... it's a very hot topic rn and it seems it's hard for some people to explain who they think should decide or even if any decision should be made at all.