What's worse, a man shouting or a woman crying?

[genericname85]

Picture a man and a woman. the woman is crying, the man is shouting at her. which thing do you feel worse about?

Please: only after you have voted in your poll, read the following:

Consider that we're talking about 2 people here, who are experiencing negative emotions towards each other. Anger and Sadness will be emotionally taxing for the other person to deal with. Aren't both their emotions valid? aren't both obviously having a difficult time with handling their emotions, the woman being sad and thus crying, the man being angry and thus shouting. aren't they both just in the process of working through their very difficult emotios? why is it that probably most of you will have thought the woman is the victim and the man is the violent aggressor here? isn't anger an equally valid and difficult emotion as sadness is? doesn't the man deserve the same empathy here?

The man shouting is worse

the woman crying is worse

my thoughts are more complicated than that (please elaborate)

[NordicInScandinavia]

Who says the crying is a sign of sadness? I myself tend to cry if I get overwhelmed with anger just as I do sadness.

And let's say the crying is based of sadness, then the crier (because it could be both genders) isn't being aggressive as the indivual shouting as in shouting at someone is the aggressive action making the shouter (again can be both genders) the aggressor.

And I try not to judge a situation by only knowing a fraction of what is going on.

[genericname85]

it's both expressions of negative emotions (whatever that underlying emotion may be) that is typically hard for the other to deal with. you found different interpretations of sadness and you automatically frame the "cryer" as a victim. why is the shouter always the aggressor? why can you not frame the shouter as the victim of anger or other emotion that they didn't know how else to give room? cause just like crying, shouting is a clearly visible sign of the person being overwhelmed with negative emotion. yeah you can cry from happiness as well or shout from happiness but in this example we're talking about negative emotion. there's a clear bias here.

[NordicInScandinavia]

I didn't frame anyone as a "victim" nor am I trying to. However the only indivual out of the two you mention is portraying an aggressive behaviour and thus is the aggressor.

You're the only one obsessed with victimhood and noone is a "victim" of their emotions. I say the shouter is worse since their behaviour is AGGRESSIVE not because the crier is a victim.

But sure, there's a "clear biast" here.

[genericname85]

i think that's cause you're conflating a "shouting man" with a "violent man". i think "crying" is as "aggressive" in nature as "shouting in anger" is. you're making it clearly visible that you're falling appart to the other person. you're not longer in emotional control... and you're basically making it their problem to help you with your emotional situation. does that make sense to you?

[NordicInScandinavia]

No, I conflate a shouting person with an aggressive person. Aggressive not necessarily being violent. Stop trying to put your biast on me.

And I'm sorry that you crying is you insisting someone else takes over your problems or situation.

You can deal with your anger, and even show it without having to shout, you know? Just as you can cry, without being able to completely fall apart?

[genericname85]

yes you can deal wiht anger without having to shout. but you can deal with sadess without having to cry right? the reason a person shouts in anger is cause the anger is too much for them to take. the reason someone cries is cause the sadness is too muc to take no? so i guess i'm trying to say it's both a sort of personal failure of holding it together, thus "falling appart" in that moment.

[genericname85]

you know what i'm saying? when someone cries in sadness, the instant reaction seems to be compassion. when someone shouts in anger, the reacion seems lacking compassion completely. but doesn't the person in anger need deserve compassion? are they not both equally fucked over by their negative emotions?

[NordicInScandinavia]

So your question is about if both crying and shouting is a sign of personal failure? Because I don't think that neither is a sign of personal failure or even a sign of "falling apart" unless of course both are falling apart whereof I'd probably be calling mental health services or the police if someone is doing such in public.

Again, I ended my first reply with that I would retrain myself from passing judgement based on solely seeing someone yell and cry. I'd not go in with my biast and try to analyse the situation based on what emotions they're acting upon since I'm not aware of such. And I'll still stand by that letting your emotions out on others is still worse. As in shouting is worse.

And just because I've more compassion towards one thing - doesn't mean I completely lack compassion for the other. And just because I think one thing is worse doesn't mean I can't think the other thing can be bad too. Nuance. You catch my drift?

[genericname85]

well i personally feel that when a person i deeply care about cries is as painfull and stressfull for me as the empathic social interactor as anger is. because you wanna be there for them, not just let them suffer right? you wanna be compassionate for someone that's important to you. and i asked this quesiton cause i think certain "emotions" trigger peoples nurturing response while others trigger a sort of antagonistic response even tho it's as much a cry for help as the other is.

[Anonymous]

the only emotions a man is allowed to have are the ones women allow him to have

[genericname85]

if a man is not allowed to have certain emotions by the partner he chose, the partner that he chose is a shitty one.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm not referring to the partner. I'm referring to women in general

men's behaviors in society are centered around keeping women comfortable

[genericname85]

why would you care about women "in general"? they're not important in your life. i don't se it as my job to keep women comfortable at all. in fact if i notice a person (no matter if man or woman) being a drag on my ressources (emotionally or otherwise), i'll boot them out of my life. easy as that.

[Opinion Owner]

I agree with you, we shouldn't care but that's not how society sees it

granted that women can't really do much to us physically, they can get other men to do their bidding for them and we both know there's too many simps in this world

of course if men collectively realize they don't need to let women control them, we could absolutely eliminate feminism and completely change the culture with force doctrine alone but instead most men would rather uphold the status quo even if it means it disadvantages each and every individual man

yes you can boot them out of your life but once that false MeToo claim comes your way or other false claims follow, you better be prepared for it

[genericname85]

most men aren't controlled by women. i think you got a massively skewed perception here. i'm not saying the things you're talking about don't exist. they do. but it is a tiny sad majority of spineless ass kissers and female scam artists. that's not representative of a majority of relations between men and women. and i think feminism was very much appreciated in the 70s, when women could litterally not own credit cards and shit like that but since a few decades, feminism has merely been a desparate but loud societal side note that nobody really gives a fuck about except some rage baiting media algorythms. i think especially in the last 5 years or so, overall society has become aware of the growing female privilege and male discrimination and i think that's actually being worked on right now. i imagine societal equality and fairness as a pendulum. you can't just stop it right in the middle. it'll swing back and forth a lot till it finds a center eventually.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm not so sure about that. at least half the country voted for Kamala and the only promise being made to men was the fear that Republicans would ban porn. Trump on the other hand never made any promises to men and pandered to women more with IVF, ending transgenderism and deporting rapists and sex traffickers

the thing is we live in a society that allows women to use the benefits of both feminism and traditionalism while men receive none and the only voices that speak out against this are considered "far-right"

in theory men should be the ones controlling the culture as is the case in non-western countries with their force doctrine but that force doctrine is often surrendered at the behest of women

the pendulum will only swing if all men wake up but men with wives, daughters etc. are too emotionally invested to want to affect the culture but have no problem imposing the status quo on their fellow men

it's not uncommon for sons to be taught how to treat women while daughters are never taught how to treat men. in many cases, dads would deliberately teach their daughters to prioritize themselves while sons need to "man up" and perform their manly duties towards others

[genericname85]

i'm quite sure kamala had other compelling arguments for democrats than that. i'm not terribly invested in US politics so i don't know for sure but what you said there seemed quite unfairly reductive, which i understand people do with the party they don't prefer.

and i do think that the lgbtq and gender issues are represented quite simplitic, and stupidly inadequately by either side. but i do agree that this is a WAY bigger issue in politics than it is for people in real life. that's what i meant with algorythms favoring rage bait over accurate depictions of reality. a tiny but loud minority will get more exposure and representation than the vast majority of average joes.

it's quite true that we've spent decades now focusing on female sufferage while completely ignoring male sufferage but i think we're at a turning point with this right now. i see that topic growing more and more in recent years and i think that's a big reason why trump won by that much.

[Opinion Owner]

I hope you're right but the way I see it, it took us decades to get here, it'll take us decades to return

I suppose Trump is a good stepping stone for someone else to eventually take over and actually deliver on male suffrage provided he does a good enough job the Democrats never get voted in ever again

[genericname85]

Yeah social devopment is slow as fuck. Just think back for how many years we thought slavery is ok xD. It takes forever for society to catch up.

[Opinion Owner]

in the meantime a lot of people are gonna suffer in the process, cost of living will increase only to force feminists to double down on their feminism, millions of babies will be aborted, male suicide rates would still be high, assassination attempts will become more frequent, most young Americans will never see the American Dream and possible end up joining militias or ending themselves

[genericname85]

suicide rates will generally increase as economy declines and birth rates will go down as both men and women are forced to go work full time to afford a living. it is what it is. you're very skewed against women. just saying.

[Opinion Owner]

how am I skewed against women when weak men in the past started this by allowing this shit to exist, giving all their power away to women, teaching boys to be simps, teaching girls to be entitled amongst many other political and social changes like mass migration and cancel culture?

[genericname85]

see "teaching boys to be simps". you're villifying women, shifting away accountability from men the same way feminists shift accountability away from women. like yeah since onlyfans there's been a huge influx of para-social relationships and even more porn and gooner shit online but it's not at all like "women are forcing this on men" or "teaching men to goon". like you're assuming men don't have agency to decide what they wanna do. i think they have and if they didn't decide to goon all over these women, these women couldn't be successfull in the first place. all i'm saying is that your view doesn't seem balanced to me and you seem to throw in stuff that doesn't have anything to do with it like mass migration. like it seems there's a looming idea of "everything is bad" in your head and it seems you're mostly considering everything else to be at fault for that but men. when in reality, the bad status quo is a combined effort.

[Opinion Owner]

it's not vilification if it's true. boys are being taught to be simps by society at large and this bleeds into their adulthood. entertainment and academia promote this too

this isn't saying men shouldn't have accountability, men have always been taught to have accountability whether by society or reality finds a way to enforce this but men are not to enforce accountability onto others which is where the problem lies. you can only take so much blame if no one is listening to you, then that's on them at that point

men are still expected to be chivalrous regardless of political aisle whereas women can do whatever. yes this would still be the fault of men for allowing this but this is the reality. you or I telling men not to simp won't change the fact many men still simp and refuse to listen to us

women do vote for candidates who allow for mass migration and they are usually in the forefront of protesting against deportations alongside the simps who follow them of course

[genericname85]

it's not true tho. porn has existed forever. so that now suddenly being a problem is not something you can just shift the blame to women. that's what i'm saying. you aren't even willin to consider any sort of male accountability, which is what just rubs me the wrong way. like you're acting as if only women voted for mass migration. that's obviously bullshit and you know that as well as i do.

[genericname85]

like read what you said. you're very clearly villifying women and just giving men no accountability at all.

[genericname85]

i'm not saying women have no accountability to take in this. but you need to acknowledge both accountabilities and see it for what it is instead of doing blind one sided blaming.

[Opinion Owner]

porn didn't exist until the sexual revolution. I agree men should be accountable but accountability has limits. right now the average 8 year old boy has seen more naked bodies than any king throughout history and he'll grow up being raised in a feminist society by his parents, by the media, by the schools etc.

women do overwhelmingly vote Left which allows for mass migration. yes there are men who vote Left too but usually at the behest of women

I did blame men but society won't fix itself with just men alone without extreme enforcement that disregards women completely. women need to play their part too

[exitseven]

how about a man crying. ?

[genericname85]

that's a possibility but how many men do cry? the vast majority of men are conditioned by society to have "anger" as the only viable outlet of negaitve emotion. cause express every other emotion and you'll be seen as weak.

[exitseven]

That is why it's so bad.

[genericname85]

yeah and i think the overall "rejection" the general population even shows for that "one" acceptable or expectable emotion from a man really dramatically shows how there's really no safe emotional outlets in society. like yeah you may be able to open up to a therapist but what if a therapists compassion doesn't help? what if you need compassion from your peers? well you're fucked. either show anger and be hated for it or show any other emotion and be ridiculed/abendoned/you name it.

[DonaldDarko]

Depends on why he's shouting and why she's crying.

[loveyouoak]

No, I'm sorry but he doesn't.

[genericname85]

he doesn't what?

[Jennz6]

The man that shouted at me to make me cry

[genericname85]

so you put youself in the position of the victim. why did you do that? is it more familiar? or is the anger just more difficult for you to deal with?

[Getback]

Shouting

[genericname85]

and why did you feel that way?

[Getback]

It makes me stressed

[genericname85]

that's very understandable. anger is a very stressfull emotion to be confronted with. but i think sadness also is. and i notice that most people (including myself) have a more difficult time dealing with anger than with sadness. because with sadness, you just hug them and soothe them but what do you do when someone expresses anger? isn't that the more difficult emotion to have? should we not be more empathic with the anger? or is it that we're scared of our own anger and that's why we sort of block that off while being so easy around sadness?