Should trans athletes be able to compete?

[Pillarofhell]

Assuming they're trying to be happy and following their unique path in life... It would be seriously wrong in my opinion to stop them from living their dreams

[Razp_Sorbet]

Yeah. They gave to got through extensive testing to be able to compete which includes having their hormones levels being lower than the average cost person

[Ryfyle]

Yeah. Nothing can undo testosterone, sorry kid.

[t-8900]

so you think biological men should be able to whale on women in combat sports?

[Razp_Sorbet]

@t-8900 yes. There's unfair advantages all over sports. Nobody is crying about that.

[MountAverage]

I actually agree with this.

[Ryfyle]

@Razp_Sorbet That advantage may as well be legalized steroids for that one contender. The gains from a mans body from Testosterone stays a life time. Fallon Fox was sending women to the hospital with cracked skulls on the regular.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@Ryfyle on the regular? From what I can see it happened once where she broke an opponents orbital bone which is a common mma injury. You should fact check anything you read 🙂

[t-8900]

@Razp_Sorbet so you're willing to potentially let biological women die at the expense of an ideology? I'm sorry but that's just batshit insane.

[t-8900]

honestly lets just make all sports unisex while we're at it then, and remove weight classes. Why not? Lets go all the way... said no rational thinking person ever.

[Ryfyle]

www.attacktheback.com/.../
As Fox's opponent, Brents, mentions that Fox was far stronger. But hey, if you want to get pounded by a man in a wig, be my guest.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@t-8900 has anyone died because a trans woman competed? My point is trans people go under extensive testing and have their hormones be lower than that of a cis person. Many cis sportsman and women have unfair genetic advantages. Basketball players are 6-7ft with huge hands, netball players tend to have really long legs, a professional swimmer has a long wing span, others have greater lung capacity, there's so many unfair genetic advantages in sports it seems stupid to focus on this one because reality is you don't actually care about women's sports you just want to voice your transphobia.

[t-8900]

glad you asked there was almost a death in MMA 2 months ago. tranny hit the girl so hard she fractured her skull and caused a brain hemorrhage. Transphobia? Lol I got no problems going toe to toe with a tranny in a street brawl anyway. I haven't had a good scrap in years! better learn your words because phobia? I have a phobia to AIDS maybe but to trannies? nah fam lol

[Razp_Sorbet]

@t-8900 so you'll complain when a trans person breaks someones skull but not any cis person? Hipocrisy.

[t-8900]

@Razp_Sorbet oh dear god you really are dense. It's not the same thing. But also I treat trannies by their biological truth, not the crazy unicorn/rainbow crap they concocted in their heads. A trans woman fighting a bio man is the way to go. You're not changing that, you can't escape nature. If I see a trans girl hit a biological woman and I'm present I'm not hold back and I'm gonna beat the shit out of that tranny the same way I beat the shit out of any guy that lays hands on a woman. I dont got time for this twinkle toe nonsense with delusional, militant lefties.

[t-8900]

listen I'm sure you mean well but the greatest evils in this world come from those with the best of intentions who are filled with ignorance. agree to disagree. I stand by what i said. A guy hits a girl , he's getting his ass beat to a bloody pulp.

[Ryfyle]

@Razp_Sorbet So I take it you have a penis then.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@Ryfyle you think anyone who defends trans rights is transgender themselves?

If you think that trans women are just as strong as cis men (even though this has been proven wrong) please do go get some HRT for a year and then fight a man. Go do your own little experiment. I'll be interested to see what happens.

[tiajoka]

No ones saying trans men are as strong as cis men. They are stronger than cis women, that is the problem.
The irony is that its mostly men who are fighting against this, even though they have no stake in the matter. In reality, men shouldn't care at all; but they do care. They care about the rights of women, and they care about equality. Its insane that the left constantly wants to scream sexism, but then when they make a special area so that women can succeed in their own way; they want to put biological men in it. (Even if they identify as women, it can't change their biological sex. Gender and sec aren't the same, as we've all had that drilled in) and when the sexist right wing men say, "hey, i think that's pretty unfair to women" they're being seen as villains. And ofc there's people on all the political sides of the spectrum who are against it, I'm moderate myself. But if you fight against sexism, you're labeled a right wing nazi. Its so backwards. I'm glad that men are still standing up for equality for women.
My grandmother told me that when she was in college, there wasn't a place for her to join in on sports. People saw that, and fixed it. And now they're trying to reverse it.

[Ryfyle]

@Razp_Sorbet Penis Confirmed.

[t-8900]

@tiajoka of course we care! We have wives/gfs/fiances, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, female friends. We think about them! We worry for their future. No matter what the militant left says men will ALWAYS want to protect women. You can't take that out of our DNA it's an intrinsic part of what being a man is. A man who isn't willing to protect and lay his life down to protect the woman is not a man.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@tiajoka my point in saying what I said is that they are saying that being on HRT doesn't change what testosterone has already done. (Which is untrue) suggesting that trans women are no weaker than cis men. I mean they even said trans women should compete against cis men.

I'm glad they're standing up for women but they're doing it for all the wrong reasons which is the problem. There are people who have genuine concern about this situation then there's these lads who seemingly just want to throw around insults for funsies.

[t-8900]

@Razp_Sorbet well dont be throwing me in with them. this isn't a joke, this isn't for fun. Dude puts hands on my woman he's gonna be learning how to walk all over again like an infant child. I dont play these gays with you people. i'll never be for normalizing dudes beating on women, stealing their scholarships, or their only spotlight for such avenues to their success and recognition. Call it "transphobia" if you want. I've never backed down from a throw down. I'm not afraid of an emasculated homosexual who became so effeminate he cut his own dick and balls off.

[t-8900]

*games

[tiajoka]

So you believe trans women shouldn't play with women, then? If you are going to sit here and tell everyone that trans women are weaker then men, which so long as they're on hormones; they'll be weaker. (Though not all of them do that) you must also recognize that even on hormones, they are weaker than biological women.
And testosterone is permanent. Its why a man who uses hormones can pretty easily reverse the effects if he detransitions. But if a woman is taking testosterone and detransitions, there are permanent effects, even outside of the lines of puberty. Which is crazy! Testostetone is a permanent thing, sorry. And any kid who went through puberty getting it naturally is stronger than most women. It is unfair. You don't choose to have gender dysmorphia, but you do choose to transition. People often forget that. No matter what, you cannot change the biological sex you were born as.

[Ryfyle]

@t-8900 Its more a case of being a failed male than being gay.

[Julious0202]

You’re a idiot

[Razp_Sorbet]

@Julious0202 an*

[tiajoka]

So thats what you felt the need to respond to huh 🤣 thats telling.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@tiajoka okay if you want to play that.

"So you believe trans women shouldn't play with women, then?" I never said that. This is what other people say.

"If you are going to sit here and tell everyone that trans women are weaker then men, which so long as they're on hormones; they'll be weaker. (Though not all of them do that) you must also recognize that even on hormones, they are weaker than biological women."

Trans women can be stronger than cis men. Just like cis women can be stronger than cis men.
Again any trans woman or man competing in sports has to be on hormones for at least a year.
Trans women weaker than biological women? Sure possibly weaker than some. Not really helping your point though.

"And testosterone is permanent. Its why a man who uses hormones can pretty easily reverse the effects if he detransitions. But if a woman is taking testosterone and detransitions, there are permanent effects, even outside of the lines of puberty. "

Most of the effects are reversible. The ones that typically aren't are voice deepening, balding, facial hair growth, and clitoral growth. Nothing to do with strength.

"And any kid who went through puberty getting it naturally is stronger than most women. "
Sure a man who does little to no exercise will be stronger than a woman who does the same. But a woman who works out, strength trains will be stronger than a man who does little to no exercise. It's pretty basic logic.

"You don't choose to have gender dysmorphia, but you do choose to transition. People often forget that. No matter what, you cannot change the biological sex you were born as."

I don't know any trans person who claims to have changed their sex. They're well aware that their sex will never change. But how they present in their gender can change. This statement is rather redundant but there we go.

You made absolutely 0 points.

[t-8900]

Yeah a female can be stronger than a man if she's several weight classes above him, or the dude is on his death bed or handicapped or something. But in reality? Men would murder women in contact sports. There's a reason they aren't put in the same MMA rings, why the PT standard for guys in military is running while the women walk for the trainig courses. Forget it, like women don't compete with men physically, it's not a thing for people with their heads in reality. There's a reason you ladies by and large would never take up a trade and instead go for the cushy office jobs. Mentally and ohu we are in different wavelengths. Women's power doesn't express itself in the physic realm but the emotional one and this is apart of basic human biology. Stop denying what's in front of you. Even among men we have weight classes for a reason. A 5'5 feather weight is not getting out in the same ring ask a guy like me who is a 6'3 heavyweight. That's not how that works

[Razp_Sorbet]

@t-8900 cool? I agree? I don't know what your point was with that 🤣

[t-8900]

the point is then you dont have people competing with huge disparities between the two competitors. A biological man in general , even if he wants to claim to be a woman still HITS LIKE A MAN and therefore should not be competing in combat sports with women under any circumstances.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@t-8900 I'm sure they do tests dude. They're the same weight class.

[t-8900]

@Razp_Sorbet weight has NOTHING to do with it. I really wish people like you learned about human anatomy in school before making your choices on where you stand on the issue. 5'5 guy is gonna kick the shit out of 5'5 girl EVERY TIME unless he's got some underlining health issues, doesn't have a mind for a scrap, or never fought a day in his lift. And even with that last example I'm highly skeptical he still wouldn't win. The power difference is clear! The sad part is men allowed this to happen. They should be dragged out of the ring by the end of a rope, taken out back, and had their faces stomped in and banned from ever being in MMA again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6LyCjwDW04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe2l1_7jzzg

[Razp_Sorbet]

@t-8900 using YouTube videos is not proof of anything. She is on HRT, you can't tell me that doesn't change anything about her. If she was SO much stronger than every woman she fights then she would never lose.

[t-8900]

omg YES! watch the damn punches glance off the dude. It's all the proof you need. Stop deluding yourself. Better yet YOU should fight each trannie since you aren't in the sport at all. Then when they beat your ass to a bloody pulp you can come lecture us about it. gain I took human anatomy in college. I know more about that you do. You people are literally insane tbh

[tiajoka]

@t-8900 actually too. I'm a strong woman, i like to play fight and wrestle; not even nessasirly in a sexual sense. and so when I was with my ex who was the same height as me and half my weight (he was 5'8 and 115ibs and I was 5'9 220ibs back then) you can imagine my utter shock when he was able to overpower me. It was an awakening of how strong men really are.

[t-8900]

@tiajoka and it's OKAY that things are that way. Women have their own strengths that men dont have. and despite what some thing, no it does not just come down to baring children. Women on average are actually a bit smarter on average then men at least when it comes to IQ. There are more stupid men and more smart women. Women's power is in the realm of the social order. They can make men be their best selves. They have the ability to resolve issues through peaceful approaches where men would often come to blows. They have used their power to break Kingdoms and Empires. A woman has a different and unique approach to things. Typically it's men who can respond faster under high stress situations. We had to since women were pregnant and off their feet, or to protect women of breeding age from other rivals. But women can literally as Jennifer Moleski put it so eloquently, "f*ck the war out of men". They have the ability to make a more peaceful society. Women can do such wonders for a man's mental health too! Combat sports are not where women shine, even tough ones. It was never the place for them in human evolution. But if you must have such sports at least keep it with people on equal footing. This trans combat shit is disgusting. It's just guys looking for an excuse to beat someone up that's weaker than them to deal with the small dick syndrome.

[tiajoka]

@t-8900 yeah, it was still upsetting tho. I thought I'd take him easy. 😭 I think its also sort of scary to realize too, how strong men really can be.

[t-8900]

@tiajoka tbh i never really realized how strong i was until a couple of very serious scraps. I'm a big guy physically but inside I'm just a hurting boy. So when I do really snap it gets dangerous because I really dont know how to control it. A good example was once a guy 5'10 tried to put me in a choke hold. I literally lifted him up completely vertically with his feet point straight to the sky using just my neck, grabbed him by his belt and yanked him off, then threw him right into a tree, picked him up by his leg, then threw him into the street like a rag doll. I've also inadvertently pushed a guy several yards into a frozen pond where the ice was shattered and he fell in. So a bunch of us had to end up rescuing him. These aren't things to be proud of, I seriously hurt people. I never go looking for a fight but when they come my way I usually end them pretty gruesomely. It comes from my dad's side. When I'm angry I dont tend to feel pain either. The reason I hate it though is because I feel like something different, not myself. And then days later I'm still feeling horrible about it. There was this one time where me and a friend were also boxing with full gear on and 10 ounce gloves. I ended up uppercutting him and sent one of his front teeth flying out the ring. I thought I was going to get sued but he said we both knew the risks. I ended up buy him a few blu rays to watch and brought a case of beer and pizzas to mend things over. But he was fine with it because he had insurance and got a false tooth after.

[t-8900]

@tiajoka another thing to realize is that men's muscle fibers are twice as reflexive allowing us to keep throwing full power shot, after shot. This is NOT the case with a female throwing punches. Our reflex time and bone density are a whole other topic. We're able to brush off pain and keep going. People talk about women giving birth, yes that's a whole different story. But when it comes to being brutalized men can take so much more than a woman ever could.

[tiajoka]

@t-8900 yeah, men have more of a responsibility with their strength, thats the reason so many men are furious at these biological men who are getting physical with women. Its against most men's social upbringing to be ok with that. Id say its against their nature, but I think its more to do with western values to care about women outside of your family.

[tiajoka]

@t-8900 i have a disorder that causes extra testosterone and I'm autistic, so I'm stronger and feel less pain than most women who aren't athletes. But it really is nothing compared to an average guy.
Its like how they'll do tests comparing female athletes to average men, and average men come out on top most of the time

[t-8900]

@tiajoka oh wow then I need to ask you something because you might be able to help me out with some things!

[t-8900]

@tiajoka PM me? I have a something to ask you about your condition

[Ryfyle]

@tiajoka Sounds like you got Anime Main Character syndrome.

[tiajoka]

@Ryfyle what?

[Ryfyle]

@tiajoka Just a light hearted jab.

[tiajoka]

@Ryfyle i figured, just didn't understand at what 😂

[FriendlyDrugDealer]

I normally stay out of these conversations but I’m honestly going to be as delicate as I can be with the truth. Transgender women should not be allowed to compete in sports with biological females. I completely understand they feel like they are meant to be born a woman and I do respect them as women but let’s also be honest, their SEX was male at the beginning and you can’t just remove all those physical aspects biological men have that biological women don’t have.


Let me give you a moment to think about this, if Brock lesnar puts on a wig and identified as a woman and went into womens mma, the carnage would be disgusting at how he would mow through women like a knife through butter. If sex didn’t matter they would just compete with the men. Which the average male fighter
would crush every female fighter. I understand wanting to include more but we have to think about this more carefully.


Honestly, I’m coming to that point were if women really really really want this to happen, we can just stand back and let this continue because it doesn’t really effect men sports. When you’re blind in your approach to things even with the best of intentions you could do more damage than you think

[MCheetah]

F*ck no!

Trans athletes can compete in their own trans divisions, but they shouldn't be allowed to compete with biological women (or men, for that matter), whatsoever. You don't get to just make up some sh*t and then claim you should be included into where you feel like simply because you have mental health issues and an insecure chip on your shoulder the size of Jupiter. I wish I was 6'5"; I can't just tell women "I identify as tall" and call them Heightists if they don't date me. (And I DO get sh*t on all the time, for being too short for them.)

Trans athlete don't get to piss all over everyone else's dreams just because they're losers who couldn't compete on a level playing field. And they ARE losers too; both mentally and literally. If these men in wigs cared at all about sportsmanship, they'd either form their own trans league (not that anyone would care or watch), or not feel the need to be forced into the women's leagues (or even the men's leagues, if they're transmen). It's absolute bullsh*t we live in a day and age where this kind of Clown World thinking can go on! Letting literal MEN compete against women who they physically and biologically outclass, especially when it comes to sports like boxing and MMA. It's like watching a generation of retards support domestic abuse, but inside a ring. I hate living in Clown World.

And before you even respond to this, @Pillarofhell, just know I'm not interested in hearing you justify delusions and bullsh*t because someone is insecure and entitled. I saw the thread you responded to Karaspara with. I respect your opinion to believe in whatever fictional stuff you want, but you can't make me question or doubt objective reality.

[224466881010]

Yeah I think they should be able to compete. But I don't think they should always able to compete with their identified gender.

We might make a totally new league just for trans people and such, and then people would probably find that fair.

If not, I think there should be strict rules about competing with females. M2F trans people definitely shouldn't compete with other females for the same reason we don't let regular males compete with females. It's not fair. F2M trans people are a little harder to place. I don't know the extent to which gender reassignment and taking male hormones can actually augment a former female's athletic performance. But if there's a noticeable difference, they should compete with males. Their advantage may be significant compared to females but they might still not be at the level of males. That's why I suggested an entirely new league... Maybe they just have to suck it up. But it's definitely not fair to allow females who take performance enhancing hormones to compete with other females.

I understand that it can be upsetting to be forced to compete with a gender you've formally denounced, but it would be narcissistic and backwards for those people to expect to be accommodated in that way in a competition where they have an unfair advantage over everyone else.

That's like telling the Olympic committee that I'm a recovering steroid addict (if that even exists) and they should have sympathy and accommodate me. That they should allow me to compete because I'm transitioning to becoming a normal and fair competitor, but meanwhile I'm still on steroids and I'm obviously going to wreck the competition. The catch obviously being that I never end up becoming a fair competitor, I just keep using a bad excuse to maintain an unfair advantage.

[Anonymous]

Of course they should be able to compete. No one is saying they shouldn't. This is a straw-man argument.

What is being said, is that MTF athletes have a completely unfair advantage over CIS female athletes, and if you actually give a shit, trans athletes should have their own category since they refuse to compete against their birth gender.

In addition, the acceptance policy for trans has become way too lax as of 2015s rule change. There is talk of tightening that gate again, reducing the required T levels in half, but it hasn't happened yet.

It's the CIS female athletes who complain most about this, because it's their livlihood that is threatened. (Prize money, sponsorships, etc.) But why should anyone listen to the women directly affected? Nah, let's just listen to the tiny minority of people who stand to gain. That's fair. (Sarcasm)

Like many of the demands made by the politically woke, they demand people change then they move on to the next bullshit crisis - never stopping to look if their demands destroyed what they interfered with.

Mary Gregory, Rachel McKinnon, Laurel Hubbard, CeCe Telfer, June Eastwood, Terry Miller, and others. Men who transitioned, smashed records as "female" athletes with ostensibly male physiques.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-glorious-victories-of-trans-athletes-are-shaking-up-sports/

[Anonymous]

Yes, but they must be required to compete in the category of their biological gender. To each their own in what gender they claim to feel like they are and how they want to dress, but when it comes to sports, bathrooms, military, or signing a form in a part where it asks them what is their gender, they are actually asking for their biological gender, so it makes sense to require them to checkmark on the option that matches their biological gender. Unless there was that technology in which changes your biological gender by changing your DNA completely, then sure, okay. That would be awesome, and it could even have us change race, subspecies, species, sun-class, class, or even kingdom, with its entirety. Or maybe a new one of any to explore or even an alien, by adding more paired bases and new ones to the DNA or altering how it looks like. I wonder if there are any aliens from other worlds with something completely different and isn’t anything similar to Earthling DNA but has multiple things to define their own version of DNA, and instead of theirs being linear, it goes like 2D or even 3D. Of courses, our DNA is 3D but I mean the directions the coded thing goes, while ours only goes one dimensionally in terms of direction.

[BlackBeauty90]

@pillarofhell transgender women are cheating. Plain and simple. And should be entirely illegal not unlike performance enhancing drugs. Unless they underwent hormone replacement very early as in before puberty, they're cheaters.

They have a greater muscle mass again not unlike performance enhancing drugs which is illegal. Too bad, so sad.

The cheaters should create their own gendered sports since they bitch like ass-fucked whores about equality and yet are disgustingly against equality.

[IveGotNoName]

Absolutely not. Not in the current gender divided competitions at least. That would be a clear advantage for trans women. People who are BIOLOGICALLY male have bigger muscles, are faster, have bigger lungs etc. Even they know that it would be unfair, and anyone who says it wouldn't are either trolling or seriously dumb.

[Lionman95]

Yes if we start to divide sports competition sections by testosterone level.
People that are born male have a higher testosterone level from birth no matter how much estrogen they take, they will have a higher level of it because the amount of testosterone a human produces in genetically scripted.
Meaning you can as much estrogen and have bigger boobs and better curves as other women but if you are born male originally your body will anyways produce more testosterone and a person that was born a female.
It´s scientifically fact that males no matter how female they describe themselves have a higher testosterone level than females.

[tiajoka]

Even if they take hormones to level their testosterone, nothing can undo the effects testosterone has on a person from the past. Thats why a trans woman would still be tall, have broad shoulders, be more muscular, have to fake their voice and be unable to naturally grow breasts (most the time) they would still be at a much higher advantage even with the same level of testosterone. And that kind of ruling would be unfair to woman who have higher testosterone as well, since you can choose to transition but you can't choose the gender you are born as.

[Lionman95]

@tiajoka Thanks for the correcting because some of the things I didn´t know.

[normalice]

I don't think it really matters. Like at all. I mean, people generally don't even watch women's sports in the first place. And if some guy wants to join them because he's too insecure or intimidated to compete with other men I don't see the problem. It's never going to be as exciting to watch. So, really, the question is "is it as exciting to play?" And that's entirely up to those who play it. Which doesn't include me so i don't have an opinion. I'll cheer them on but I won't be able to bring myself to watch much more beyond the headlines the following day - but I don't really watch men's sports either, so, again, it really dorsnt matter.

[Shortman70]

You are what you are, you're not what you think you are or what you tell people you are. Got a penis, you're a man. Got a vagina, you're a woman. When you commit and have surgery, then we can talk, until then you are what it says on birth certificate. What you want to be, what you tell people you are, really doesn't matter. Men and women are built different, that's the way it is. Stop crying bout this and that, I'm really a woman or man or whatever, you really wanna change, go get your dick lopped off, get your pussy sewn shut. Take whatever hormones you need for 2 years then I'd consider it.

[BrosephBrostar]

I'm getting the idea from your responses that you believe that all life paths should be open to everyone at all times, but that is a foolish, universalist ideal. You simply cannot have everything open to everyone at every time. We tell fat people that they can't ride certain amusement park rides because their weight may endanger the other participates. Very few people are talented enough to be things like movie stars or sports stars. I happen to be a very shit programmer. And biological men tend to do things like fracture the skulls of biological women they fight in in UFC competitions.

So, the only logical solution is is to have trans-only sports.

[Shizunk]

Living their dreams at the expense of other athletes? Absolutely fucking not. They can compete in the category corresponding to the sex they were born as. If they don't like it, they should pick a different career path. I get that they may want things, and it sucks for that to be unavailable. Some people are born with handicaps, others with a mental disorders or other anomalies. If any of that prevents you from competing, bad luck. But you don't get to ruin everyone elses world to pretend everything is fine.

[Shizunk]

by the way, the more issues like this get successfully pushed in the real world, the more likely it is that people like me adopt harder positions on the topic as a whole. With every attack on the definition of womanhood and every attempt to blur the boundaries between the sexes I lose more and more sympathy towards transgender people and become more convinced that we need to be much harder on them. That perhaps even the common courtesy of letting decent individuals pick their own pronouns should be reconsidered it it becomes connected to attacks against women and their safe place in society. You should seriously want to avoid that pushback, because that would negatively impact transgender people who did not want to be dragged into this mess.

[ChrisMaster69]

Nope for exactly the same reason with the Para olympics athletes needing to get how they are classified changed.

If you look at international woman’s times for say 200m and then look at guys times for college 200m.

We are going to have similar at some point with para Olympians wanting to compete more in non para olympics, yes we had it with Oscar Pistorius, however technology keeps improving.

It would also allow certain countries free rein to pretty much cheat.

I would like to see the same level of interest in the wrong assessment grades given to para Olympians. this is making some events a mockery, certain countries having their athletes tank assessment events etc.

[MuddyMole]

At a low amateur level, sure, but not at a high or professional level - unless they're competing in the category that fits their gender at birth (I have no problem at all with that).

I get that it's unfair, but high level sports is unfair.
It's unfair that I don't get to play elite basketball, because my genes mean I'm not 6'8" tall.
It's unfair that you're not going to be an Olympic 100m champion unless you're descended from slaves. http://www. youtube. com/watch? v=MIvTNXdIaB0
It's unfair that I don't get to compete in Olympic rhythmic gymnastics, because it's a women-only sport.

[loveslongnails]

I presume you mean should they be allowed to compete with their "new" gender? Not on the professional level in some sports. The LPGA has it right - it's open to those who were "born female". But let's say a natural born female could kick 60 yard field goals and an NFL team signs her. What if the same female decided to transition to a male? What would be the difference?

When it comes to school athletics, this is a different can of worms. I think the trans person has to be on their new hormones for a certain amount of time, especially if its male to female. That way the body will have gone through significant enough changes as to take away any strength or muscular advantage a male might bring to a woman's sport.

[Anonymous]

I don’t believe someone who was born a male should be allowed to compete in a female sport just because they are trans it’s not fair same goes for people who were born a female and are now a trans male they should have their own category

[KellyKOO]

Sports are separated by sex for a reason. Trans women should not compete in women's Sports, because they are biologically male and have an unfair advantage.

[Pillarofhell]

If they're biologically male but biochemically female, what's the difference? They are on special hormones.

[KellyKOO]

Hormones aren't the only reason men outperform women in sports. So a trans woman being "biochemically female" is irrelevant.

[Pillarofhell]

What are the reasons?

[KellyKOO]

Men are stronger , have larger lungs & heart, different skeleton structure, better biomechanics etc.

[NorthwestRider]

I find it funny and stupid that soo many people get triggered over the stupidest fake issues like this 😂

[KellyKOO]

@NorthwestRider I don't think you understand what triggered means.

[NorthwestRider]

I can see you are trigged over fake cultural war nonsense

[Pillarofhell]

That's not always true. Most mtf trans because they are born girls.

[KellyKOO]

@NorthwestRider clearly you are poor at reading people. I'm not triggered one bit.

[KellyKOO]

If you're mtf you're born male.

[NorthwestRider]

I do not fall into the Top 1% trap unlike you people

[Pillarofhell]

Its not as simple as having a male chromosome that makes you a male. Mtf often have more dominant expressions of their feminine side

[KellyKOO]

Doesn't matter when it comes to sports. There was recently a study which said that mtf trans on hormone therapy don't lose most of their strength. So they have an advantage over cis women

[zagor]

Artificial chemicals do not make a man into a woman, or vice versa.

[Pillarofhell]

@zagor They were already girls they just transitioned with the hormonal replacement therapy

[Outlaw117]

@zagor I agree just like artificial crab meat isn't real meat. Just because something contains the same ingredients doesn't mean it's the same. Look at cup cakes and cakes. Same ingredients, different results.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Mtf trans people who transition after puberty are significant stronger faster and tougher than cis women and should not be able to compete in the same leagues. Luckily, there are so few mtf trans athletes in the world that this is not really that big of an issue.

I am not certain about these facts and willing to debate them as long as you don’t ask me to read any long boring articles.

[Pillarofhell]

Ok. The debate I'd like is on why they should be discriminated against for being better athletes? They're women now.

[t-8900]

yeah but they are starting to dominate combat sports in female divisions. its BRUTAL to watch. Seeing a woman get hit like that... I like boxing, kick boxing, mma, but that was just hard to watch. A few times i wanted to go through the screen and save the girls damn.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@t-8900 agreed. That’s why. Not a level playing field.

[Pillarofhell]

@t-8900 They're both women

[Gwenhwyfar]

There are some biological differences between a cis woman and a trans woman who transitions after puberty that just can’t be ignored.

[t-8900]

@pillarofhell no man. no amount of PC debating on this is changing my mind no matter what anyone says. You're either male, female, or a hermaphrodites at birth and that's it. what you're born is as is what you are. I'm a hardliner on two things. This and Pro Life. Everything else i can compromise on but not these subjects. Like I already had to tell someone else if you are a transwoman and i see you hit a woman I'm full force hauling off and knocking your ass to the ground like i would any other man and that's that.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@t-8900 I disagree with you on going that far they are women but they were also once men and you can’t ignore that reality when you’re dealing with athletic competition.

[t-8900]

@gwenhwyfar wait you're saying trans women should be able to compete in MMA with normal women?

[Pillarofhell]

@t-8900 Why can't you see that theyre women too? Why?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@t-8900 no! Absolutely not.

They are women but they were once men. Cis women are grossly outmatched and could get seriously hurt competing with post pubescent trans women.

@pillarofhell you’re not really that good at arguing are you?

[t-8900]

@gwenhwyfar but that was my whole point. If a tranny woman hits a real woman I'm gonna hit the tranny like a man because I'm going to protect the woman, period. I'm not going to watch a man beat up on a girl and anyone who says I should stand back and watch can kick rocks. That one girl was so brutalized by the end of that fight she had a skull fracture and a brain bleed.

[NorthwestRider]

Why you people care soo much about stupid ass fake issues? You clueless conservatives

[Gwenhwyfar]

@t-8900 that’s fine. And very chivalric of you. I don’t do MMA but if I’m ever attacked by s trans woman please feel free to rescue me.

They are women but they’re much bigger and stronger than other women and that makes a huge difference in the very narrow field of collegiate and professional sports.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@NorthwestRider it is “fake” in the sense that there are very few trans athletes who compete on the collegiate or professional level

[t-8900]

@gwenhwyfar any day hun! I am talking any scenario, MMA, parking lot dispute, doesn't matter. I'm not watching a dude crack a woman's skull open under any circumstances.

[NorthwestRider]

And why you care? Like trans women playing sports has zero affects on my life

[t-8900]

@pillarofhell i dont dislike you but based on your username you won't get it. I'm a Christian. However flawed I am, however many times I screw up or fall short, those values are still in me. Even when I struggle sometimes I believe in Man and Woman and that's it. To me to even call a trans the opposite of what they were born as would me being willing to openly sin through peer pressure and societal demands, not gonna happen. The same way I cannot compromise on my pro life stance I cannot compromise on this because i'd be openly giving someone the middle finger. And I'm not willing to just do that. I have pro choicer friends. I'll never agree with them but that's on them. If someone wants to be trans and live their life that's not my business. Likewise it's not their business weather I accept them or not. I'm nice to them but I'm not using "preferred pronouns" again to me that's akin to straight up blasphemy. And if a dude tried to pass themselves off as a woman and tricked me and then told me, lets just say things aren't going over so well for them and leave it at that. For me scripture mentioned all this in Revelation. You won't take that seriously, man won't. Fine, that's fine but I cannot ignore it so dont ask me to.

[t-8900]

@NorthwestRider if you ever have daughters you'll care if you worry about them

[NorthwestRider]

@t-8900 You know that the Top 1% use this to divide people apart while they steal everything? They want people to fight each other over stupid fake nonsense while they run out of the back door with all of the money

[Gwenhwyfar]

@NorthwestRider @disgustingweebtrash says the same thing but at least he’s funny about it

[t-8900]

@NorthwestRider that's not the point at all. But if you wanna see your daughters loose out on scholarships or get their asses beat then by all means let it fly. I'm not out here looking for problems. I have a reason to be concerned.

[NorthwestRider]

@t-8900 You know it is the truth. They want people to fall into their trap and fight while the freaking Top 1% steals everything

[Gwenhwyfar]

@t-8900 agreed

[t-8900]

@NorthwestRider irrelevant, that never has and never will change. that's been going on since the days of the ancient roman republic and it's nothing new. doesn't mean you dont stand up to the trash that comes flying your way

[NorthwestRider]

@t-8900 I can care less about trans women in sports or using restrooms. It has zero affects on my goals and life. I also not want to fall into the Top 1% trap

[t-8900]

@NorthwestRider thats lovely. i guess you dont plan on kids

[NorthwestRider]

@t-8900 I just want to get higher in life

[disgustingweebtrash]

Trans is less than 1% of the population but makes up 80% of normie virtue signalling

[tiajoka]

@NorthwestRider for someone whose mocking everyone who spends time on and cares about this subject, you sure are spending a lot of time mocking everyone who cares about this subject. And not in a constructive way either. Just in a way that would annoy other people and not convince anyone of whatever thing it is that you want people to be focusing on. Its unproductive and hypocritical.

[Sabretooth]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Fuller_(athlete)

[MarinaC]

I am perfectly favorable if a trans man wants to compete with cis men, but coincidentally that never seems to be the case...

That's a problem I have no answer to: how can a cis woman fairly compete with completely differently abled bodies? A trans woman had hormones in their growing up no cis woman ever had and their muscles and bone structure developed in completely different (and irreversible) ways.

If I take male hormones it would be considered doping. No one came up with a solution that's fair to everyone involved.

[EmmaMary]

Absolutely, providing it's within their own biological gender.

[t-8900]

as i've said if a biological male hits a biological female then he's getting my biological male fist through his teeth! ^^

[Anonymous]

They should have their own category if really needed. Otherwise, it is basically just cheating. No trans woman will be on the same terms as a natural born woman. Thats just kind of facts.

[Anonymous]

No, trans women are biologically male. You cannot change a person's sex. Its unfair, and they would have advantage if they compete with biological women. Sports are separated for men and women for a reason.

[Smashingdoozy]

Short answer yes. After doing a little reading into it, and the research surrounding it (this could change in future) it's a yes so long as the person never experienced puberty of the gender they were assigned. So discovered early that they were trans, put on puberty blockers until old enough to take HRT. Though incredibly sad for a lot of athletes and potential athletes.

[SkyCastle90]

In my opinion, transgenders, binary, etc should have a special league of their own that is exclusive to them only. That way it's more if a unisex competition to see who is strong over all I. That particular sport rather than limiting it to just women or men.

[SkyCastle90]

I meant nonbinary, sorry.

[Diodoro]

Against themselves yes.

If the area doesn't have enough trans in their area to form a division then they must compete in the division in which they were born. If the area does then they can have trans division athletes.

Putting MtF Trans athletes in women's sports is the truest form of hating women in my opinion. You're robbing women of opportunities and not even looking out for trans people at the end of the day

[Lliam]

No one who was born male should be allowed to compete in women's athletics. I don't care what kind of medical treatment they have undergone. Fuck them. It's unfair to real women. It's destroying Title IX advancements and robbing women of athletic scholarships. It can even cause physical danger to real women.

I do think that women should be allowed to compete in men's athletics, though. That would allow trannies to compete (or attempt to).

[molonski2]

Nope , nope and nope..
Unless they had their own category , and then were categorised , just as handicapped athletes are. You can't have some bloke with Titties , playing AFL football in the womens league , nor can you have that same bloke playing on the LPGA tour.

Maybe is they were a Tom , growing a penis the considerations maybe different? Maybe..

But , heh Im with the OP , make their own category.

[CuriousJC]

Oh absolutely Tran athlete should be in any competitive tournament or place if they want to. But on the safe side I think trans women athletes should wear a cup so the guys in the audience would think that the tran is a woman and don't get the wrong idea.

[RolandCuthbert]

American society is only concerned about one kind of trans athlete. And that is male to female. No one cares if a woman has a sex change and competes as a man. So this is about politics. Not about principles.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/b_gjSnXqw7s

[wankiam]

ethically i should have no problem with it as trans people really dont bother me but practically we have to ask if its fair for a far mor physically strong male to female being allowed to compete against biological females in certain strength based sports. in that case maybe we should consider their own catagory for competition but i dont know

[MrOracle]

I have no problem if they want to create their own league, but "trans-women" are biologically male, and they should absolutely NOT be able to compete in women's sports. There's mountains of evidence why. The whole point of having a separate women's league is in recognition that there are serious biological differences between the sexes. Trans-women competing against women completely violates that obvious and sensible rule, and that's unfair to everyone.

[OlderAndWiser]

Don't you think it is seriously wrong to tell a girl, who was born with XX chromosomes in every cell of her body, and who is an athletic girl, that she must compete with a "girl" who was born with XY chromosomes in every cell and who develop muscle mass under the influence of testosterone, etc?

[sensible27]

During puberty, females undergo bone and muscle changes that often create laxity, or joint instability, that limit neuro-muscular control in lower extremities. To compensate for this lack of control, female knee joints tend to rotate inward as weight is applied. This places strain on tendons and ligaments, and increases the risk of tear and injury.

Something I read.

[DCooper]

I'll be the odd man out here. Since the vast majority of women empower the pushers of that kind of fuckery with their votes, I feel no need to object when some of the results ruin their toys too.

Of course that doesn't apply only to women's sports. I also think the nfl and nba should be mandated to embrace a lot more diversity too, particularly trans, Asian, and Jewish athletes. As big a proportion of Asians live in California, how come the Lakers have never had a Korean starting center?

[rienna888]

No wtf it’s like girls and guys have different body strengths… so even when somebody transitions, they still have their muscle strength

[Vetera]

Not sure why this question is still being asked...
There are tons of articles that point to why it shouldn't be allowed along with a huge string of reasons why.
What was the point of posting this when the question has been answered so many times?

[Vetera]

Let me add. Do you just choose not to listen to other opinions or some shit? Look at the facts of it all.

[Pillarofhell]

Why shouldn't they have personal freedom?

[Vetera]

@Pillarofhell
They can have personal freedom but people who transition from men to women get on hormones and sometimes on steroids if they have to. You clearly don't understand the fact that, that bulks them up like steroids and destroys any chance of the women winning.

It's not discrimination it's common fucking sense. Make your own division or don't take the surgery that will give you the unfair upper hand.

[Pillarofhell]

So why is it allowed? The people who allow it must agree with me

[Vetera]

@Pillarofhell
In the 1900s I could beat my wife and that was considered okay because it was allowed. Something that is allowed does not make it okay.

[Pillarofhell]

What women are being brutally beaten?

[Vetera]

Are you even reading what I'm saying? It was pointing out the flaws of saying 'well it's allowed and people agree with it so it's okay'.

I think the fact that it's allowed shows that the professionals don't do any research before they make rules because there is tons of research that has been done that actively shows that it's a foolish decision to let trans athletes compete in the opposite divisions.

Read a few articles that use actual arguments other than using feelings as a strong man to push the opinion that Male to female transgenders should compete in female leagues.

[Pillarofhell]

No they did their research and decided all people deserve their right to live a free life

[Vetera]

It's like your cherry picking what you respond too... when your debating people it's important to adress the full argument instead of choosing what would magically make you look good.

[David_Kek]

I've got a better idea. Let's just do what modern schools do, and instead of giving gold and silver medals and stuff, let's just give everyone participation medals, because everyone's a winner. That way it won't matter if a "transwoman" cracks another woman's skull in a cage fight.

It is very odd we live in the age in which feelings are more important than scientific facts, but that's life I guess.

[convo_king89]

Physically you have the traits of what you were born with. Transgender who feels like a women but born a man with have more muscle do to testerone.. sports all about physical attributes and so what you physically have. Now something like chess or ping pong. That’s different.

[NYlatefun]

I’m completely fine with whatever gender you identify with, no problem at all. But when you compete it can give unfair advantages one way or the other. A biological male is naturally stronger than a biological woman, so you can have them compete. Seems unfair.

[Archerer]

Either make sports genderless, or create new categories for trans, I do not think trans women should participate in women's sports. But I also don't really give a shit to be honest. I don't care about sports, and if a trans woman came 1st and a born woman came 2nd, I understand it's annoying for her, but she still did her best, and literally I don't care that you can put a ball in a net or run fast...

[MountAverage]

Well, you didn't specify against whom. By the way you phrased your question, it sounds more like you're asking if they should be allowed to compete against each other. But I assume you mean against members of their (trans) gender. I think this is something that should be judged on a case by case basis, depending on where they are in their transition and if and when they took puberty blockers. Those details make all the difference.

[Treb86]

Yes, trans athletes should be able to compete, as long as they compete according to their birth gender. Biological males should not compete against females... Period!
There's a reason why trans males don't compete against Biological males... they would never win! Never!

[FakeName123]

They can compete - with other trannies or men. But not with women.

Most sports in the world allow women to compete with men. There is a reason why they do not do it. Because they would get their ass beat hard.

[007kingifrit]

no. even if their hormone levels were in line (they aren't) their bone structure is different. a man has more harrow hips than a woman's and thus can rotate and turn faster and is more aerodynamic. this study was done by the olympics on the subject link.springer.com/.../s40279-020-01389-3

[Oigit]

I say let them. Though my view on the subject comes from the same view point I have on the many if not all of the trans debates. Someone being trans does not have a direct impact on my life. So I don't really see a reason to care.

[CrazyGirl2]

Absolutely! With OTHER trans athletes! It’s SO unfair to girls when former guys join the sport!

[Pillarofhell]

That's called discrimination by the way

[BrosephBrostar]

You could frame many things, including women's sports as discrimination. Turns out, discrimination isn't always wrong. We discriminate against age all the time, we don't allow adults to fuck children or teenagers, and we try to avoid putting biological women at the mercy of biological men, such as with bathrooms and in physical sports.

[CrazyGirl2]

@BrosephBrostar Yep! Great observation there Broseph! And to @pillarofhell It’s TOO easy for guys to cheat that way! Tell you what, AFTER you cut your dick and balls off, you STILL can’t compete against 5ft tall women, BUT you CAN use the women’s shower with me after, ill even soap you up if you say please! But AFTER you snip off your cock ‘n balls! Okay is that better?

[Pillarofhell]

Wow the transphobia. Are you sure you're an lgbT ally?

[Willoughby23]

I agree with @CrazyGirl2

[CrazyGirl2]

@Willoughby23 Thank you, but this “pillar” guy is just a troll! Guys like this create accounts and when everyone gets sick of them they just create a new account and start all over w/ another “thing”

[t-8900]

@pillarofhell does the idea of keeping your fists reserved for physical equals scare the shit out of you or something? Trans female athletes are COWARDS, nothing more. They're too bitch to fight men so they beat up on women because their self worth is that far down the gutter.

[CrazyGirl2]

@t-8900 Oh sweetie, didn’t you know, he only attacks women… kinda like Fallon Fox!

[Petermorgan34]

If they compete with other trans athletes go for it! If your born with a wiener you can't play with the girls it is unfair! Not due to hormone levels but muscular skeletal structures.

[jshm2]

No. Their "dreams" are the nightmare of others.

Imagine being a real woman, working and training hard for a decade, only to have some man get a snip and hormones to put in twice your performance and get selected.

[zhiiscloud]

Lol, absolutely not. They can have their own competitions! I don't care if a trans person had surgery though and wants to use my bathroom but they have to have all female parts. (Real)

[Julielamar2]

Well if we were sure that transgender women were not advantaged by their physique and that from this point of view they are not advantaged by that then she should be able.
Otherwise there should be a Transgender category

[OfDeath]

Personally, I dont think so. I dont think it is fair to have a 6'5 man decide he's a woman born in the wrong body and then take out gold at the Olympics in women's freestyle wrestling.

You have to draw the line somewhere.

[GaGirls]

I find it funny how everyone now suddenly cares about women but at the same time no one thinks the men would lose to transmen. Fuck your science. Women would still whip the floor with transwomen.

[tiajoka]

A bobcat is stronger than a cat but its not strong than a lion.

[WowwGirl]

F+&k no and anyone who says yes doesn't play combat sports...

[WowwGirl]

I do..

[MisteryMe]

As long as it's within their born gender or it's an exclusively trans league.

[Wester1967]

There needs to be a separate category for trans only. Otherwise biologically women's sports will simply disappear. If these two sentences trigger you, then sue me for not being a hyper misogynist hag.

[Nomina]

Sure. In their own category. Done.

[b5fan]

Absolutely as their biological sex or as their own category of trans man or trans women. No reason we can't have the trans Olympics.

[shayes904]

Yes. I’m not exactly sure how to make this fair though. Hormones definitely change the game.

[DeeDeeDeVour]

Only among themselves.

[Pillarofhell]

little transphobic

[DeeDeeDeVour]

Nope. I'm thinking of fairness. A trans can have unfair advantages.

[Pillarofhell]

Everyone has unfair advantages

[OddBeMe]

Every athlete has advantages and disadvantages over others. I don’t think we have enough data to know if trans women would have that much more of a leg up. As opposed to rich athletes who can practice 24/7 because they don’t have to work.