I predict that capitalism will solve this problem. The dolls will be on clearance in the spring and the line will be quietly discontinued. And Mattel may see a larger decline in overall sales from people choosing to buy elsewhere.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
What it boils down to is IF this offends you, or you think it's ridiculous, or you have strong views on strictly having 2 genders alone----this is not the doll for you, your family, or your kids however, you aren't the only person seeing this or the only parent. This doll is for the parents who want to raise their children without gender labels and I say, let them be. No one gets to decide what's good for you or your family or how you raise your kids but you as a parent. I just passed by a toy aisle the other day and they had a barbie with a prosthesis and they have plus size and tall and petite barbies now and it comes in all different skin tones to reflect the people that live in this world and there are people in this world who don't want gender stereotypes so now they have dolls for themselves or their kids. Is the world coming to an end because of it...no.
I mean, is not like barbie has a vagina anyways. at this point they'll say that barbie is a trans and ken is her bi couple and the little girl is a lesbian, but i don't know if a little 4yo kid should know about those things and that is the kind of people that will be playing with those toys 4yo kids, sound like the idea of a pedophile to pervert kids and make them more intrested into sex lol
3
0 Reply
Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
Utter and Complete nonsense, what's the point? teaching kids that there is more that 2 genders? that's bullshit !! every freaking person knows that there is only 2 genders period. the people that identifies otherwise... why exactly should a child know what you identifies with? they don't even care (nobody actually does) !!!
Retarded. Less than 1% of people claim to be trans. Even if we believe it’s not a mental disorder (in most cases) that means if you raise your kid as trans there’s a 99% chance you’re wrong and abusing the kid.
I want to know what happen when a toy was just a toy for kids having fun and 69 was just a number, and the word black was just a color and the color blue was for boys and pink for girls. When everything was never throw out there out of propotion.
The fact that toys were so strongly gendered was annoying as hell. If I hadn'thad an older brother, I never would've gotten to play with an electric train, race cars, erector sets, vacu forms, builder sets, etc... I LOVED all HIS toys. I liked some of mine too. I dissembled the Chatty Cathy doll to see how it talked. Was really entertaining and informative. I think androgyny is OK. There's nothing wrong with gendered toys either. I think the whole issue is allowing all kids to play with ALL toys with no judgment.
I think it's interesting because it will allow children to dress them how they want. Unfortunately, gender stereotypes are already instilled into children at a very young age so while this is a step in the right direction, stopping the perpetuation of harmful stereotypes is the right way to go. These kids might adopt the "traditional" way of thinking because that is what they are taught is "right" (men wear pants and women wear skirts etc.).
Why not have gender neutral clothing on dolls with genders instead? Otherwise I don't see how a gender neutral doll helps with this. Plus in many cultures men wear skirts and dresses
I really try to be neutral in my responses but this is complete nonsense. A 2 year old doesn't even know the difference between a girl and a boy. They pretty much all like colors and sounds and maybe food and that's about it
Just because someone posts it online does not make it true. Where is the research supporting those statements? I had a strong preference for toys meant for the opposite gender ( trucks and stuff) and I can assure you I've never felt like a boy inside. In some cultures, there are dolls meant for boys. So are all the men in those cultures secretly women? I could also right a very nice sounding article with lots of advice and bullet points, doesn't make any of it substantiable. In your own experience have you found little kids worried about gender at 3 years old?
There are studies that have been done over this and how they’ve found out how it manifests. It’s taught in child development classes. I’ll post a few after work because it’s asinine to assume that because you didn’t go through it, others didn’t. That study was speaking about transgender children and how they were able to recognize the differences between sexes and determine their personal gender identity. The Mayo Clinic is a reputable source on top of that. Again, just because you’re ignorant does not make it untrue.
I am avidly awaiting those sources. If I had been locked in to the say the profession I thought I wanted to be at three I'd be miserable now. I would have to see a credible study, their data set and statistical analyses methods before I can be convinced of this. Your link does not lead to an actual study, just statements. Mayo clinic may be credible but I want to see how credible the source study is. You'd be amazed how many statistically or data deficient studies get published. I've met 3 year olds who want to be unicorns. Should we implant horns on their foreheads? What if they turn five and want to be a horse instead? This is what children do. I've met 18 year olds who still don't know what they want to be, so when I hear of sex changes and hormone treatments for kids, I just want to yell at someone. I never take improbable sounding things as fact until I myself have examined the data. Otherwise Uganda would be called Tanzania since BBC, a very credible news source by the way, labelled it so. Please do forward those studies to me.
Saw this last week. I am always surprised how these liberals can get stupider and stupider. Maybe I should just stop. There is no end to their stupidity.
I think it's kinda stupid, kids don't care about this stuff. And when they're actually at an age where they do care (puberty and such), what they need is guidance, not for a corporation to be making dolls without gender.
I don’t get some of the negativity towards this. At the end of the day, no one is forcing anyone to buy it. It’s a damn doll. Who cares? Some kids will like it, some won’t. 99.99999% of the kids who have toys aren’t paying for it themselves, therefore the parents and adults of the world shouldn’t really care since this is something that is in their control by default.
Tranny dolls huh? That’s a small market... They make up 0.6% of the population and are less likely to have children. I’m glad I don’t own stock in their company. That’s a failure of business leadership.
they are just dolls that can be interpreted however the child wants to... Its not like the child sees the doll on a self and thinks "im a 5 year old and i totally want to buy that doll over there because it is a 'tranny'"
@leahzrc Eh, you never know. Kids pick up on things pretty fast, especially the profane. Think about when you were a little kid and your older brother or sister sad a bad word and you repeated it because you thought it was funny. I’m sure there will be little kids that point at them and say tranny and giggle. They may not know the entire implications of what they are saying but it will likely happen. As to why a kid wants usually want something, well that usually comes down to brainwashing through tv advertisements in between cartoons. Other than that it generally comes down to the roll of what the toy is doing. If it is a solider, a fireman, a police officer, a matador, an astronaut, a scientist, a ninja, a knight, a princess, a teenage bimbo, or whatever kids are usually going to pick out the role they think is cool so they can role play with their toys.
@leahzrc When that is the case and things are not very clear and sterotypical they tend to get confused and ask questions like “Daddy why is that boys wearing a dress? That’s silly!”
@leahzrc When I was a kid we had “action figures“… G. I. Joe, Army Men, Transformers, LEGO men, Star Wars action figures, some kids had WWF wrestlers, etc. So while they were not marketed as dolls they were still little humanoid we were playing with. Same thing different marketing tactic.
Doll: a small model of a human figure, typically one of a baby or girl, used as a child's toy.
The difference is that dolls aren't specific people. I knew you would mention action figures as if that is the person that the child creates from their own mind oof
@leahzrc A doll is just a little humanoid toy. It can fit any role you want it to or even no role at all. For example many artists own articulating wooden dolls that they use to model generic human body positions when drawing.
But just like this is a doll:
So to is this technically...
One is just marketed to be famine and older because girls often want to feel like they belong in the group with their older sisters or mother so they mimic those roles in their role play. So they play house and make their barbie date and talk to guy dolls or play in their doll house and clean up and cook and crap like that. They have tea parties with their dolls and talk to them about food they cooked in their easy bake oven or whatever. In contrast a lot of boys have more masculine tough super hero like dolls that go off and fight to save the day from evil villains and win the war or whatever. We act like we have super strength and can fly around the house and do adventurous things. Thus the doll has to fit the role. So back to the tranny dolls, what role are they projecting? Who is the market for that? Why would it be a good business decision for a toy company?
Look I don't have enough focus to read that but im the one that played with barbie and bratz and American girl doll whatever, so whatever we are talking about, I probably know more about doll play lmao
On the one hand, it is their right to release whatever kind of product they want to release, so long as it abides to safety laws. But on the other hand, this goes against gender norms which, whether people like it or not, ensure stability in society.
That is not to say that the norms can not change over time - they can, but to completely get rid of them is the West's hubris.
All dolls have been gender neutral since the dawn of time because I remember when I was a kid and my brother ripped the heads off of all my ken dolls, I just used a barbie and cut her hair off. Ta-da changed the gender of the doll
I think it's not a bad thing to have more varieties of dolls for kids. I don't see the harm. I don't have any reason to buy any dolls but if I had a young kid that liked dolls then maybe I would consider buying these. I don't see how they are any worse than any other doll.
And I do believe in the idea of teaching children about differences and acceptance. i don't know that these dolls will be all that important in teaching that, but they won't do any harm either.
I personally find the doll is cool but not for the political reasons. I personally don't care about speeches that much, and I find the product ok. I find the doll cute looking, I like that face more than Barbie's, I like that seems quite customizable and I like the type of urban outfits they have. I would probably enjoy playing with this doll if I had 10-12 years old.
To those who say stuff like "Children aren't going to learn gender differences" "children won't know what gender is their doll" "It's going to confuse them" Children with 6-12 years old already know what a boy is and a girl is and understand gender difference perfectly. They start learning gender difference at age of 2 and by the age of 4 they already know their gender and identify other people's gender.
If you give them that agendered doll they aren't going to be confused. They are going to choose the doll gender by themselves. They don't need anyone or ony label in a box to decide that the doll is girl or boy because they want so. I mean, I choosed my plushes gender when I was 6, an none of my plushes looked like guys or girls. I even gave gender to office objects, as anything was subjected to be a doll.
So, please, don't buy the speech that much, as almost every comment likes or hates the toy because of the speech and don't really comment or value the product by itself. Also, don't treat children as stupid thinking this toy has any possibility to confuse them. Children are smarter than most people think.
I like them because they look more childlike than a regular barbie or ken doll. Boys and girls look similar when they're little so the dolls don't really look gender neutral and they have girlish and boyish clothes. If I had a girl I'd rather give her one of those instead of a bimbo barbie with an impossible figure and also I'd give one of these to a son because I'd rather have him playing with a doll on a car than have him hitting things with a gi joe like my brother.
barbie wasn't a bimbo, i dont know why everyone started hating on barbie just because she is pretty. I would rather buy the dolls that look indistinguishable but don't drag barbie like that I love that bitch
@leahzrc haha I loved my barbies and wished I looked like her but since I can choose I want my future baby girl to have more realistic views by playing with childlike toys also barbie is a bimbo, she's like the role model for bimbos lol I just learned "bimbofication" is a thing 🤦
Weird as all get out. Progressive... But don't boys have action figures and such? I never played with those as a child... I had Legos. Oh the power of an imagination. I do feel it is unnecessary, but whatever floats them.
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I predict that capitalism will solve this problem. The dolls will be on clearance in the spring and the line will be quietly discontinued. And Mattel may see a larger decline in overall sales from people choosing to buy elsewhere.
What it boils down to is IF this offends you, or you think it's ridiculous, or you have strong views on strictly having 2 genders alone----this is not the doll for you, your family, or your kids however, you aren't the only person seeing this or the only parent. This doll is for the parents who want to raise their children without gender labels and I say, let them be. No one gets to decide what's good for you or your family or how you raise your kids but you as a parent. I just passed by a toy aisle the other day and they had a barbie with a prosthesis and they have plus size and tall and petite barbies now and it comes in all different skin tones to reflect the people that live in this world and there are people in this world who don't want gender stereotypes so now they have dolls for themselves or their kids. Is the world coming to an end because of it...no.
I mean, is not like barbie has a vagina anyways. at this point they'll say that barbie is a trans and ken is her bi couple and the little girl is a lesbian, but i don't know if a little 4yo kid should know about those things and that is the kind of people that will be playing with those toys 4yo kids, sound like the idea of a pedophile to pervert kids and make them more intrested into sex lol
Utter and Complete nonsense, what's the point? teaching kids that there is more that 2 genders? that's bullshit !! every freaking person knows that there is only 2 genders period. the people that identifies otherwise... why exactly should a child know what you identifies with? they don't even care (nobody actually does) !!!
Retarded. Less than 1% of people claim to be trans. Even if we believe it’s not a mental disorder (in most cases) that means if you raise your kid as trans there’s a 99% chance you’re wrong and abusing the kid.
I saw that tacky shit last week. My son is not playing with barbies regardless
I want to know what happen when a toy was just a toy for kids having fun and 69 was just a number, and the word black was just a color and the color blue was for boys and pink for girls. When everything was never throw out there out of propotion.
The fact that toys were so strongly gendered was annoying as hell. If I hadn'thad an older brother, I never would've gotten to play with an electric train, race cars, erector sets, vacu forms, builder sets, etc... I LOVED all HIS toys. I liked some of mine too. I dissembled the Chatty Cathy doll to see how it talked. Was really entertaining and informative. I think androgyny is OK. There's nothing wrong with gendered toys either. I think the whole issue is allowing all kids to play with ALL toys with no judgment.
I think it's interesting because it will allow children to dress them how they want. Unfortunately, gender stereotypes are already instilled into children at a very young age so while this is a step in the right direction, stopping the perpetuation of harmful stereotypes is the right way to go. These kids might adopt the "traditional" way of thinking because that is what they are taught is "right" (men wear pants and women wear skirts etc.).
Why not have gender neutral clothing on dolls with genders instead? Otherwise I don't see how a gender neutral doll helps with this. Plus in many cultures men wear skirts and dresses
@lornakrys There are people who consider themselves gender binary. It helps them. But I agree with gender neutral dolls.
Gender neutral clothing for dolls I meant.
But would a kid who's that age know it's gender other than the biological gender it was born?
@The_White_Queen They can manifest these feelings at the age of 2. They might not know the terms but they know what they feel, like, and want.
I really try to be neutral in my responses but this is complete nonsense. A 2 year old doesn't even know the difference between a girl and a boy. They pretty much all like colors and sounds and maybe food and that's about it
@lornakrys Just because you don’t know it doesn’t make it untrue.
And it’s at age 3, not 2.
www.mayoclinic.org/.../art-20266811
Just because someone posts it online does not make it true. Where is the research supporting those statements? I had a strong preference for toys meant for the opposite gender ( trucks and stuff) and I can assure you I've never felt like a boy inside. In some cultures, there are dolls meant for boys. So are all the men in those cultures secretly women? I could also right a very nice sounding article with lots of advice and bullet points, doesn't make any of it substantiable. In your own experience have you found little kids worried about gender at 3 years old?
Meant to say write
There are studies that have been done over this and how they’ve found out how it manifests. It’s taught in child development classes. I’ll post a few after work because it’s asinine to assume that because you didn’t go through it, others didn’t. That study was speaking about transgender children and how they were able to recognize the differences between sexes and determine their personal gender identity. The Mayo Clinic is a reputable source on top of that. Again, just because you’re ignorant does not make it untrue.
I am avidly awaiting those sources. If I had been locked in to the say the profession I thought I wanted to be at three I'd be miserable now. I would have to see a credible study, their data set and statistical analyses methods before I can be convinced of this. Your link does not lead to an actual study, just statements. Mayo clinic may be credible but I want to see how credible the source study is. You'd be amazed how many statistically or data deficient studies get published. I've met 3 year olds who want to be unicorns. Should we implant horns on their foreheads? What if they turn five and want to be a horse instead? This is what children do. I've met 18 year olds who still don't know what they want to be, so when I hear of sex changes and hormone treatments for kids, I just want to yell at someone. I never take improbable sounding things as fact until I myself have examined the data. Otherwise Uganda would be called Tanzania since BBC, a very credible news source by the way, labelled it so. Please do forward those studies to me.
Saw this last week. I am always surprised how these liberals can get stupider and stupider. Maybe I should just stop. There is no end to their stupidity.
I think it's kinda stupid, kids don't care about this stuff. And when they're actually at an age where they do care (puberty and such), what they need is guidance, not for a corporation to be making dolls without gender.
I don’t get some of the negativity towards this.
At the end of the day, no one is forcing anyone to buy it. It’s a damn doll. Who cares?
Some kids will like it, some won’t. 99.99999% of the kids who have toys aren’t paying for it themselves, therefore the parents and adults of the world shouldn’t really care since this is something that is in their control by default.
Tranny dolls huh? That’s a small market... They make up 0.6% of the population and are less likely to have children. I’m glad I don’t own stock in their company. That’s a failure of business leadership.
they are just dolls that can be interpreted however the child wants to... Its not like the child sees the doll on a self and thinks "im a 5 year old and i totally want to buy that doll over there because it is a 'tranny'"
@leahzrc Eh, you never know. Kids pick up on things pretty fast, especially the profane. Think about when you were a little kid and your older brother or sister sad a bad word and you repeated it because you thought it was funny. I’m sure there will be little kids that point at them and say tranny and giggle. They may not know the entire implications of what they are saying but it will likely happen. As to why a kid wants usually want something, well that usually comes down to brainwashing through tv advertisements in between cartoons. Other than that it generally comes down to the roll of what the toy is doing. If it is a solider, a fireman, a police officer, a matador, an astronaut, a scientist, a ninja, a knight, a princess, a teenage bimbo, or whatever kids are usually going to pick out the role they think is cool so they can role play with their toys.
what i meant was that kids dont assume dolls are transgender because they have shorted hair or are wearing pants instead of a dress
@leahzrc When that is the case and things are not very clear and sterotypical they tend to get confused and ask questions like “Daddy why is that boys wearing a dress? That’s silly!”
If I was a kid i would just assume that its an ugly girl
@leahzrc Lol. Well different perspectives from people that had different childhoods.
well im the one that played with dolls...
@leahzrc When I was a kid we had “action figures“… G. I. Joe, Army Men, Transformers, LEGO men, Star Wars action figures, some kids had WWF wrestlers, etc. So while they were not marketed as dolls they were still little humanoid we were playing with. Same thing different marketing tactic.
Doll: a small model of a human figure, typically one of a baby or girl, used as a child's toy.
The difference is that dolls aren't specific people. I knew you would mention action figures as if that is the person that the child creates from their own mind oof
@leahzrc A doll is just a little humanoid toy. It can fit any role you want it to or even no role at all. For example many artists own articulating wooden dolls that they use to model generic human body positions when drawing.
But just like this is a doll:
So to is this technically...
One is just marketed to be famine and older because girls often want to feel like they belong in the group with their older sisters or mother so they mimic those roles in their role play. So they play house and make their barbie date and talk to guy dolls or play in their doll house and clean up and cook and crap like that. They have tea parties with their dolls and talk to them about food they cooked in their easy bake oven or whatever. In contrast a lot of boys have more masculine tough super hero like dolls that go off and fight to save the day from evil villains and win the war or whatever. We act like we have super strength and can fly around the house and do adventurous things. Thus the doll has to fit the role. So back to the tranny dolls, what role are they projecting? Who is the market for that? Why would it be a good business decision for a toy company?
Look I don't have enough focus to read that but im the one that played with barbie and bratz and American girl doll whatever, so whatever we are talking about, I probably know more about doll play lmao
@leahzrc So your default when you lose an argument is to proclaim you know everything. What a moron.
On the one hand, it is their right to release whatever kind of product they want to release, so long as it abides to safety laws. But on the other hand, this goes against gender norms which, whether people like it or not, ensure stability in society.
That is not to say that the norms can not change over time - they can, but to completely get rid of them is the West's hubris.
Aren't they already gender neutral? I have yet to see a Mattel doll with a penis or vagina.
But some have breasts, therefore they are female in theory.
@Lunatic1 depending on how much they eat, men can have breasts too
All dolls have been gender neutral since the dawn of time because I remember when I was a kid and my brother ripped the heads off of all my ken dolls, I just used a barbie and cut her hair off. Ta-da changed the gender of the doll
@Valiant true point, but not perky ones like women.
I think it's not a bad thing to have more varieties of dolls for kids. I don't see the harm. I don't have any reason to buy any dolls but if I had a young kid that liked dolls then maybe I would consider buying these. I don't see how they are any worse than any other doll.
And I do believe in the idea of teaching children about differences and acceptance. i don't know that these dolls will be all that important in teaching that, but they won't do any harm either.
I personally find the doll is cool but not for the political reasons. I personally don't care about speeches that much, and I find the product ok. I find the doll cute looking, I like that face more than Barbie's, I like that seems quite customizable and I like the type of urban outfits they have. I would probably enjoy playing with this doll if I had 10-12 years old.
To those who say stuff like "Children aren't going to learn gender differences" "children won't know what gender is their doll" "It's going to confuse them" Children with 6-12 years old already know what a boy is and a girl is and understand gender difference perfectly. They start learning gender difference at age of 2 and by the age of 4 they already know their gender and identify other people's gender.
If you give them that agendered doll they aren't going to be confused. They are going to choose the doll gender by themselves. They don't need anyone or ony label in a box to decide that the doll is girl or boy because they want so. I mean, I choosed my plushes gender when I was 6, an none of my plushes looked like guys or girls. I even gave gender to office objects, as anything was subjected to be a doll.
So, please, don't buy the speech that much, as almost every comment likes or hates the toy because of the speech and don't really comment or value the product by itself. Also, don't treat children as stupid thinking this toy has any possibility to confuse them. Children are smarter than most people think.
I like them because they look more childlike than a regular barbie or ken doll.
Boys and girls look similar when they're little so the dolls don't really look gender neutral and they have girlish and boyish clothes.
If I had a girl I'd rather give her one of those instead of a bimbo barbie with an impossible figure and also I'd give one of these to a son because I'd rather have him playing with a doll on a car than have him hitting things with a gi joe like my brother.
barbie wasn't a bimbo, i dont know why everyone started hating on barbie just because she is pretty. I would rather buy the dolls that look indistinguishable but don't drag barbie like that I love that bitch
@leahzrc haha I loved my barbies and wished I looked like her but since I can choose I want my future baby girl to have more realistic views by playing with childlike toys
also barbie is a bimbo, she's like the role model for bimbos lol I just learned "bimbofication" is a thing 🤦
Oh boy! Another company whos going to learn the finer aspects of "Get woke go Broke"
Weird as all get out. Progressive... But don't boys have action figures and such? I never played with those as a child... I had Legos. Oh the power of an imagination.
I do feel it is unnecessary, but whatever floats them.
I think it's ridiculous but I'm used to companies pandering so I'm not shocked