Why did they "search" for 4 days to find the missing sub when the Navy *heard it explode* and everyone knew it was diving on the Titanic?

[RingOfFire]

Could someone please explain why they searched an area "twice the size of Connecticut" looking for the sub and spent four days searching the planet when the Navy HEARD the explosion when it happened, knew exactly where it happened, and everyone knew the sub was diving on the Titanic? Why didn't they just concentrate those resources right in that spot where the Titanic was from the start and find the wreckage the same day it happened? Something doesn't add up here and I have not heard any logical explanation.

Updates

10 mo

So they weren't absolutely sure they heard a noise? That means they didn't go to the Titanic to find out even knowing that the sub was diving there exactly at the time they heard the noise? Makes no sense!

Lieutenant : "Admiral we think we heard an explosion in the area where that sub is diving on the Titanic at exactly the moment when they lost contact with the sub. But we're not sure."

Admiral: "Very well. Start a search area twice the size of Connecticut immediately!"

[crossdressingrihno]

OK I’m going to make an analogy here.
Imagine you’re in a big city, minding your own business and you hear what sounds like either a gun shot in the distance or a firework in the distance or even possibly somebody dropping a metal trashcan lid across the street.
It could’ve been any of those things.
You have a rough idea as to where it could be in by a rough idea I mean, if you checked every single house within a few city blocks, you might find the cause or do you just go about your day because it’s impossible to tell without taking an excessive amount of resources?


Well, that explosion they heard could’ve been any number of things.
I know it’s difficult for you to understand what sound is really weird as it’s really just a vibrations in the air except for this is underwater so it’s a little more difficult.
You see it could’ve been an explosion or implosion. It could’ve been something really dumb like a fish knocking into something and the sonar picking it up at something but it’s not.
I don’t know if it could’ve been a fish but the points I’m making is that what sounds like one thing can be any number of things and especially when you’re talking about deep within the ocean and potentially many miles away.


Also, I’m sure they went to checking around the titanic so you need to keep in mind that there’s a lot of room for error due to underwater ocean currents. There’s been many cases where ships were sound at the bottom of the ocean like 100 miles away from where they started sinking because they were pushed by currents both above and below the ocean surface.


Of course, with the sound, having been relatively insignificant, seeming at the time, as well as seemingly being any number of things at the time, and the gigantic search radius, and the relative unpredictability of where the submarine could’ve ended up you of course would naturally expect there to be some difficulty searching.


Of course, that’s only two of the factors because there’s still a lot more we need to talk about.


Next is the fact that the submarine imploded. This submarine is it just gonna be found floating around everywhere. It’s going to be found in small, mostly unrecognizable pieces. It’s gonna be like putting together a jigsaw puzzle but half the pieces are missing. At least it will be at first.


Now we have the fact that this is going on underwater. Underwater things are usually significantly less visible, especially when you’re so deep under the ocean that almost no light reaches the bottom, which is where the submarine and the titanic would be at the bottom, the incredibly low visibility bottom.


No, it’s also throw in the fact that at the time we didn’t know if the submarine imploded. For a while, it was just as likely that the submarine, how to simply lost its navigational controlling was kind of just floating around somewhere, potentially significantly far away from where we lost contact from it. That’s gonna make things a little more difficult.


Now to make it even more interesting, let’s throw in the sketchy business practices of the people who owned the submarine. Yeah I’m pretty sure they were hiding a lot of information and probably still are actually, they were probably impeding the investigation a little bit if not a lot, but yeah, would make things difficult, especially with all the other circumstances.






Lastly, we didn’t find the submarine. We found parts of it not the whole thing there’s still more that could be discovered, including the bodies which could’ve already been eaten by something by now.

[RingOfFire]

To be accurate it was not a "submarine" but a "submersible." The difference is in the propulsion system.

But even if you ignore the sound they heard altogether. They must have known that whatever happened, happened during a descent to the Titanic wreck. So why did they suddenly find the parts of the sub 4 days later right where you would expect them to be... on the site of the Titanic wreck? Could the parts have been scattered or hidden in such a way that it took them that long to find them even where you would expect to find them. Maybe. I mean there is obviously some answer to this question. But so far I still have not heard any explanation that answers it from any source. Where the heck is the investigative reporting?

[crossdressingrihno]

Did you read everything I said? I mentioned much more than just sound.
My response should answer most of your questions.
You of course will to do a bit of your own thinking by combining the information I’ve given to create a conclusion as I’m not personally interested in doing all the leg work but pretty much everything you need is in the above response.

Also yes I understand the difference between a submarine and a submersible. I’ve actually been blueprinting submarine, but that’s beyond the point.

Anyways, I hope you figure things out and I wish you a good day.

[BCA6010]

Being charitable, because they didn't want to outright say something one way or another without physical evidence, which they lacked. Audio playback of a submarine imploding caught on hydrophones doesn't mean much to the 99.99% of people who have no idea what it is. The specific Navy asset that detected it in the first place (basically an early warning system to detect submarines) isn't really meant to be common knowledge, either, but knowing it was able to detect this within the vicinity of the Titanic wreckage allows the country's enemies an idea of where our systems are located and plan accordingly.

Realistically however... I don't think it's a coincidence that this received basically wall to wall coverage for almost a week while completely glossing over Epstein's bank emails getting released, a Biden impeachment vote, a related massive corruption scandal with the DOJ, IRS, and his son, tens of millions of relevant emails in these above investigations being 'mysteriously' deleted, and we "found" billions of dollars to just send over to Ukraine for some reason. The US crop yields are also way below average and likely to result in shortages and higher prices, which of course would spark panic buyouts on the spot.

But yeah, don't pay any attention to that, watch mindless drivel about this submarine that there was never going to be a serious rescue effort for.

[sheenagwapa]

this is what i've been thinkinh too lol... they're headinh to Titanic so they should focus there but thrn this is a big body of water you can easily get push by the current. i don't really know how deep sea wayer behaves. in my dream i see mud and darknesd i see scary lookinh sea creatures and a whale shark. the water is still so i think the submersible will not get too far.


i honestly think they are alive because in my dream i saw a rope and a road/highway


i've seen a lot of vids about scuba divinh and would love to see underwater but dang because of my dream i am scared. the scary lookinh sea creatures who seem very dangerous in my dream i keep teyinh to escape from them. my life is always on the edge. i thought underwater is not dangerous! it is very dangerous!!!

[RingOfFire]

I got my scuba licenses at a young age and did a lot of diving over the years. It is a fantastic experience.

I wouldn't bet on them being alive as at the depth they were likely at when it imploded the force on the outside of the vessel was the equivalent of about 5 busses of weight per square inch. At that force their bodies were probably reduced to particles even before any signals of pain or awareness of what was happening could reach their brains. In other words they were likely the equivalent of vaporized in milliseconds.

[Pinay_ako]

When extremely filthy rich people go missing, they’d use all their resources to find them no matter what or how long it takes. They won’t take any chances. Every second counts. They need concrete evidence to stop their search and that’s when all else fails and there’s no signs of life.

[RingOfFire]

Well I have to disagree with your premise because I have seen numerous large rescue attempts for even impoverished people who have been lost. But aside from that, I agree that they wanted concrete evidence before they stopped searching... that makes sense. But what the question is about is why they didn't first search what seems to be the most obvious place where they would find them: i. e. the Titanic site.

[MrOracle]

James Cameron, who has dived down to the Titanic more than anyone else alive (33 times), and who unsurprisingly is closely connected with the DSV community, knew Monday morning that it had imploded. His contacts had heard about the loss of communication during the descent on Sunday, and contacted folks in the Navy who confirmed Monday morning that they had detected a boom in that area consistent with an implosion, which occurred at the same time communication was lost.

You can bet that if Cameron knew, the government also knew. And SOSUS nets have been known about since the 1960s, and the sound of an implosion is loud and would be simple to triangulate to get a location. None of that is remotely secret.

So, why would the government keep this a secret, and waste many millions of dollars on a large rescue mission with multiple countries involved? Why would they want the news full of this story? Was something else happening that was newsworthy that they didn't want the public focused on? Hmm...

[Curmudgeon]

@MrOracle see my possible explanations.

[Markm3212]

because it took that long to get a UROV to the site that could actually confirm that the submersible had actually imploded. the ROV that found the sub was only deployed that morning and i assume that it found it within minutes as they had all day to contact relatives and let them know first, hence how the company was able to put the message out first before the planned speech

[RingOfFire]

So you are saying that it took several days to get the ROV to the Titanic site so they searched a wider area first to make sure it didn't drift somewhere else in the meantime?

If that is what you are saying then it is the first plausible explanation I have heard. Don't know if it is accurate since it seems unlikely it would take them that long to get the ROV there, but it is possible. Thanks for having the only answer so far that seemed to understand the question!

[Markm3212]

yes it did take that long to get there. if you think about the logistics of it. the actual Robot is the smallest part of the system, maybe the size of a small car, think how big 5 miles of cable is and it being on a drum, it would be massive and not very easily transportable, also you have the control station, this is usually a large container like on ships or the back of lorries, filled with screens and controls, this would then have to be wired into the vessels power supplies and checked for operation. the one that the UK sent over (too late) took 2 Hercules planes (army transport planes) to get the equipment out there. hence the time to get this all out to site, on a vessel and out to the search site.

ships travel at about 10-15 knots (very similar to Miles per hour) so if that vessel with the ROV on is say 500 miles away, that would take 50 hours over 2 days and thats if its that close, most probably it was further away and steaming as quickly as it could. my guess would be that it was way over a 1000 miles away as the time it took to get there.

the initial vessels that turned up with ROV's only had ROV's capable of descending to about 3000m and therefore couldn't see the sea bed and was merely just a shot in the dark.

part of the reason for expanding the search zone was in the hope that they had survived and to not say its imploded without proof of it. the sounds could have been anything and they didn't want to detract from the search in case it was still in one piece.

the easiest thing for them to do was to drop sonosbouys and listen for any signs of noise. once they got this tapping sound on half hour intervals they struggled to triangulate the location so went for an area. this was the quickest and easiest thing that they deploy to try and find them. but the problem was that they got false signals and that enlarged the search area.

[Markm3212]

on top of this, they had to assume that the sub may have drifted and thats why communications was lost. when we think of size and drift, thats partly why the search area was so large. lets say they have a 3 knot current. in 1 day they could have drifted 30 miles so by the end of 4 days thats 120 miles and growing, what if they had power and were moving with the current, the thrusters were good for 3 knots i believe, so that 120 is now 240 miles. but we must understand that the size of the search area was small when compared to the ocean and not knowing what to look for or where to look, that had to make a guess and didn't want to say lets look at 120 mile radius and then find that the current deep down was faster so open it up to be on the safe side. also they are looking for a tiny object in a massive place. its always misleading when they say its the size of what ever as the ocean is massive and this is just a small bit of it.

one last thing, taking away the conspiracy theories lol, they didn't want to say that it had imploded without physical proof, as had they found the sub later washed up on shore somewhere, they would have looked really silly, so went all in to make sure that it wasn't still in tact. but i would imagine that a lot of people knew that it was gone and just didn't want to say without that all important evidence. had they put the ROV down and not found it, they would have come under fire for not looking properly.

hope thats understandable and not just rambling rubbish lol

[Markm3212]

sorry just realized my maths is way off lol, drift would be 72 miles per day not 30, therefore after 4 days would have been 288. then double that if it was still working under thrusters, 576 miles and in any direction so would be a large area to cover.

[RingOfFire]

Makes sense. All depends on where the ROV and other resources needed were when it happened.

Was the ROV from the USA?

I actually live on the coast of North East USA so the site is not very far from me.

[Markm3212]

i'm not 100% sure where the ROV was from. i seem to remember that it was on a French vessel. but there was more than one ROV on site. all i know is that it wasn't from a local company to me that makes them, hence how i know a little about the ROV's as have attended open days at the factory and had a go with a smaller one.

[Markm3212]

this is quite a good article that explains a bit about the search

www.theguardian.com/.../robot-subs-and-an-8km-winch-the-equipment-being-deployed-in-search-for-titan

[Curmudgeon]

Possible answers:

1. No one wanted to be the bearer of the awful news of death until it was absolutely certain,

2. "Fog of War" confusion, rumors spread, no one intentionally lying, just the confusion of a situation.

3. I suspect the US Navy doesn't like to reveal just how good its sonar technology is, which is what a prompt report would have done.

[RingOfFire]

All reasonable explanations but the third one in particular is one I have been speculating on. They knew exactly what happened but didn't want to reveal the capability. Still, it seems wrong to mislead the public like that if that is what happened. They could have simply said "The company notified us where the sub descended and that they lost contact with it. A careful search of the immediate area revealed debris that has been identified as coming from the vessel."

That doesn't give away anything.

[mobiusforniner]

Notifying the public isn't the purpose of a defense agency. Thats why it was delegated to the coast guard and this info assisted their search. you're scratching for fleas in a teddy bears ass.

[Curmudgeon]

@mobiusforniner You are absolutely right. Note that I was NOT stating that it was wrong for the news to not come out so soon, just potential reasons as to why that was so.

[Static_In_The_Attic]

Like throwing a rock in the water (SOSUS) also know as the Sound Surveillance System picks up sounds all the time & if every time an implosion or explosion was detected it would cost billions to investigate & deploy resources. The Titan implosion probably wasn’t enough to set off the bells & whistles & was probably equivalent to a whale farting & although it was heard it wasn’t enough to send up a red flag.

[RingOfFire]

I understand that. But the noise heard is not the most obvious reason why they should have been searching on the site rather than in the entire North Atlantic ocean. The most obvious reason is that that is where the sub was diving! They obviously knew that when they started the search since they would have been told that by the company that launched the sub off of the surface ship!

[RingOfFire]

They also would have been told that the company lost contact with the sub which may have been a sign that something catastrophic happened right there on the site.

[Naydyonov]

I'm not usually one to believe the media is directly working in the political interests of one or another party, but in this case, I'm starting to suspect it was just a media circus to distract everyone from news related to the Bidens.

[RingOfFire]

That is entirely possible and you are not the only one with that theory. The good news is that the crimes of the Biden family crime syndicate are getting more and more difficult to cover up. Only the most ignorant among us cannot see what this family has been up to.

[Naydyonov]

For real. And if before, I'd have said calling it the "Biden family crime syndicate" is extreme, I actually am now convinced this is exactly the best description for who they are :D. It is both funny (almost seems like an over the top description of a gangster family in the 1920s) and sad (because it describes the presidential family in the 21st century well).

[blissinanarchy1]

I heard this black dude on youtube talking about some conspiracy type shit. That the Titanic was an assassination attempt to kill the richest men in the world were supposed to board. He said there was journalists and shit looking at claims it never hit a glacier, this was another assassination. He showed no source so I don't know.

[RingOfFire]

Ummmmmm...

no.

[GoingNooWhere]

They had no clue exactly what they had heard and also they probably didn't even know the sub was down there or that it was missing when they heard it so they had no need to report it. Either way, the sub was doomed from the get go. Anyone with common sense could tell those men were never going to come back up alive.

[OlderAndWiser]

No one can explain until they have ALL of the facts and we clearly do NOT have all of the facts.

[RingOfFire]

Agree. What troubles me though is that the media reports these stories which obviously don't make any sense and seem to be oblivious to the contradictions. It is frustrating as hell to listen to.

[OlderAndWiser]

Irresponsible reporting is something that we should all expect by now!

[DarkWinterNights]

And what if the explosion they heard wasn’t the sub and instead was something else? People wouldn’t have been looking for the sub with as much urgency. Also we’re at war with Russia, so it could have been related to that. The Navy notified the Coast Guard and the Unified Command. I think they handled it well.

[Tomisworthless]

To distract the public from what was happening in DC at the time. They just had to drag the story out long enough and made it the top story all day for several days

[RingOfFire]

I think that is a reasonable theory that is likely seen as a "conspiracy theory" theory by many. The Democrats have been desperately trying to distract from the Joe Biden corruption/treason story over the past few months as the evidence from whistleblowers and hard documentation disclosures has been overwhelming. They will try anything to cover it up and after what is going on in the FBI, the Justice department, and the corrupt indictments of President Trump, even something like this would not be so hard to believe.

[Tomisworthless]

Not the first time

[Anonymous]

We have know idea what actually happened. The US Navy probably took care of this many days ago, but they have no obligation to tell us what they're doing. The news just grabs onto the story and runs in every direction with it. They don't care whether what they say is true or not.

[Ben487]

I don't think they had a sub capable of reaching those depths for several days. Plus, you wouldn't want the coast guard to assume you were dead on the off chance that what they heard was some other kind of anomaly. I know I would want someone looking for me... there might've been a slim chance they were still alive and lost somewhere at sea. Making a search was expensive and unlikely to be successful but still something I would want them to do.

[Redstang88]

Typically searches of any sort are at least started as a search for survivors until they find confirmation there are none.

It took time to get the resources on site and find the sub on the bottom, so the best odds were to start air and sonar searches in the chance it surfaced somewhere

[BeMuse]

That's because they weren't looking for the submarine... OceanGate is tied to The Terramar Project run by Ghislaine Maxwell which was the right hand of Jeffrey Epstein. You know, child trafficking...

[richardcory]

One possibility was that the sub was on the surface. It was designed to automatically surface if something went wrong. It was possible that the noise didn't for sure mean total destruction, even if it was very likely.

[provokeesmokee]

I'm betting it was a distraction in the news cycle for some big American political slip up/slip in.

It always is when it's something this stupid.

[MementoMori777]

there's no explanation for the whole thing, so a bunch of rich people went to visit a tomb underwater in a homemade sub that was controlled with a video game controller, amd the awful search party tactics is what threw you off? 😂

[slatyb]

Because although the Navy had heard something, they weren't absolutely sure that it was Titan imploding.

[KatherineJ]

Well, it’s better to make sure. I mean what if it was a member of any of our families, and there was any doubt? Wouldn’t we want them to make sure?

[RingOfFire]

Of course. But that has nothing to do with my question.

[KatherineJ]

Sure it does. All of the early reports only said that they had around 96 hours of oxygen, and had only lost contact. When or whether the Navy shared anything with the search teams is a different story, right?

[RingOfFire]

The question isn't about whether they should do a thorough search or not. It is about HOW they should search. The only way they could know what happened was to talk to the company that sent the sub down to the Titanic. And if they talked to them, they would have been told that they dropped the sub in the water from the surface ship, it started the descent and about 1 hour and 45 minutes later they lost contact with it. Based on those facts alone the obvious most likely thing that happened is that there was a catastrophic failure of the sub an hour and 45 minutes into the descent and the obvious thing to do was to immediately go to the site of the Titanic and search THERE. Not search the entire Atlantic Ocean. They should have concentrated 90% of their resources on THAT spot. Then they would have found the wreckage much sooner.

[mobiusforniner]

Honestly, they found it pretty quickly given the circumstances.