Do you think relationships with modern women are worth it? Girls, why do you think some men say you aren't worth it?

By relationships, I mean medium-long term romantic relationships. One night stands, friends with benefits and platonic friends don't count for this.

Many guys here have said that they aren't. That women take more than they give and men risk more in modern relationships. This has led a minority to give up on them all together. What do you think?

To the girls, why do you think so many men think like this?

  • Relationships with modern women are great and totally worth it!
    21% (23)13% (16)17% (39)Vote
  • Relationships with modern women are pretty good.
    6% (7)7% (9)7% (16)Vote
  • Relationships with modern women are pretty annoying but what choice do I have?
    3% (3)21% (26)13% (29)Vote
  • Relationships with women are not worth it at all but I'm stuck with them.
    3% (3)17% (21)10% (24)Vote
  • I've given up on relationships with women; it's pointless.
    1% (1)21% (26)12% (27)Vote
  • Other
    6% (6)17% (20)11% (26)Vote
  • I'm a girl and I just want to see the answers.
    60% (66)4% (3)30% (69)Vote
And you are? I'm a GirlI'm a Guy
Updates:
I'm obviously talking about women in general. Also, the idea that there are basic differences between the genders (in general) is the basis for this site so it's a legitimate question.

I also know that guys aren't perfect either but there seems to be no equivalent to things like Red Pill and MGTOW.

I actually get on well with women socially but when it comes to romantic relationships, I don't see the point. And I'm obviously not alone.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • I've only seen complaints on g@g about that
    But it is the internet, where people like to wallow in self pity and hate

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    • Well they're hardly going to say it to your face are they?
      Guys that are online exist irl too.

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    • Thank you so much. :)

    • no its actually true I didn't believe it myself at first but it is (sad actually)

What Girls Said 40

  • just because I'm from a modern time, doesn't mean i need to class myself under the 'modern woman'. I'm quite a traditional person and would much rather the way things worked in the 1900's in terms of courtship and chivalry.

    in GENERAL, the modern woman, i argue, doesn't fully know what she wants. she's lost, trying to find her way between school, work, social, sex, religion or lack thereof, health, etc. exposed to societal norms of "you have to be this, and look like this, and love this sex, and reach this level of education, and have this kind of hair and blah blah blah..."

    it's exhausting.

    the sooner the 'modern' woman can ground herself and quit being thrown about by society, the better she is as a date. i must add that the same goes for men too.

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    • You desever a cookie for keeping it 💯👌

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    • eye contact, dress and mannerisms were kinda vague. i feel like flirting today is so straightforward and in some cases, cringeworthy lol.

      u just had to work for it. it was more confusing in a fun way. I don't know if that makes sense. @mrf284212 ^^

    • @justbanANNAz

      What do you mean by "i feel like it takes a lot more for a man to do it. we're more emotional- of course we're capable of asking a guy out."

      You said, "the reason we dont is we just want to feel wanted by someone." I think men want to be wanted by someone too. Not that this topic needs continued; I just wanted to point out that men probably have just as great a desire to be wanted as women.

      The efforts you said a women needs to make; don't men need to make those exact same efforts?

      I know I didn't reply to everything you said, but truthfully, I'm not sure how to reply to everything. I don't mean that as an insult, I just don't know what direction to take the topic.

      Do you mind me asking why you and that guy broke up? I don't want to make you uncomfortable or anything, so you don't have to answer. I'm just curious. I don't know much about the "dating world" or whatever.

  • ... I wouldn't want to marry a bitter little boy who generalizes a whole gender based on a select few anyway.
    Win-win. :)

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    • And if those select few are also every girl he's dated?

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    • Obviously some girls are and some aren't, just like guys. The issue is are the chances of finding a great one worth going through all the others.

    • not much good ever came to someone lazy. All good things take a little work.

  • I know your polls, and know you have a thing against most women and feminists, but I'll just give you some things to take away here.

    Why the "modern" woman is a great partner:

    She can help with finances because she's working too.

    She's dependent enough to do things around the house that were once traditionally reserved for men (lifting things, fixing the toilet chain, mowing the lawn).

    She's got the wherewithal to speak her mind and engage in intelligent conversation because she's reading and interested in the world.

    She drives, and likely has her own car, not dependent on you always having to go to the store or have her chauffeur her around.

    Sexually, she tells you what she wants and shows you affection and wants to let you know what pleases her, instead of waiting for your first move all the time and only allowing your pleasure to be had.

    She has her own thoughts and viewpoints, opening up possibilities for you to think about that maybe you hadn't considered before.

    She's got your back and defends you, unafraid of outsiders who might be a threat to you or your relationship, your family and your kids. Speaking out and taking charge right along with you against issues means you have an automatic partner in all things.

    Women are natural communicators, and when you travel abroad, your partner is a natural if one of you needs to pick up a second language (women statistically learn languages better than men for this reason). This makes traveling more fun and takes the stress off of you to try and figure out how to get around.

    ***

    There was a time when none of these things happened, because the traditional women from years' past wouldn't speak up, help out, or make any moves to be an equal partner, so she sat around doing only one thing which was keeping the home a home and raising the kids. Men typically couldn't even talk to their wives and have an intelligent conversation because they weren't in the know with current events or had any advanced education. They had to do more work at being a provider, and when they came home did most of the grunt work and handyman keeping them busy at home. Today, it's more of a joint effort, taking a lot of load off the man so he can be rest assured he can ask his wife to help him with something and she's right there, able and willing, and later on, have terrific sex because she might have initiated it, and then talk about solving the world's problems while lying in bed. Does this really sound so horrible?

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    • Whomever was capable to downvote is a mistery to me!

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    • “She's got the wherewithal to speak her mind and engage in intelligent conversation because she's reading and interested in the world.”
      Most communication these days is less or text messages. If it’s over 140 characters, it’s almost definitely a lie of some sort.

      “Sexually, she tells you what she wants and shows you affection and wants to let you know what pleases her, instead of waiting for your first move all the time and only allowing your pleasure to be had.”
      I’ve never heard of a man saying this. Based on what I’ve heard, there’s more feedback from porn.

      The others don’t compensate for the problems in my opinion.

    • *"Most communication these days is lies or text messages* it should say not "less"

  • Okay so, I came from a family of consistently absent males, so I was raised by women. I felt no loss or emptiness. My grandma and great grandmother both loved their husbands dearly, and were themselves extremely strong, polite, but outspoken and very intelligent. I learned a lot from them and was extremely happy, until I got into high school and all the guys looked at me like I had ten heads. I didn't find out until I was older what men were expecting of me, because I never really knew any, so I was just being myself, I was taught that I was equal. Not the case... at all. Some men really appreciated my being opinionated and self-sufficient and found it very easy to have a good conversation with me. That being said, I became extremely angry for these men not appreciating or at least accepting what I had to say. I met my husband and turned from a lion into a kitten and filled my gender role, not because I was forced to, but because he treats me like a respected partner, not his silent slave. Both of us like our gender roles, I would rather cook clean and do laundry and he would rather mow the lawn fix things and fix cars. We're both pretty happy with that. And to top it all off he holds me very highly because I can make myself look pretty and know more than most guys about cars. THAT is what modern women want. We would like to be independent and have opinions, not that traditional crap. I wasn't raised like that nor would I have wanted to me because I'm very proud of myself and I don't want to be looked down on because I did things myself.

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  • What exactly is a modern woman? Last time I checked guys whine about having to pay for women and want us to bring more to the table. Now correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a modern woman who works and has a career then satisfy these men who are moaning about providing for women?

    Ironically I've never heard any guy in my life complain about "modern" women nor say anything you just said. Once again just another thing said on the internet with no relevance to real life.

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    • That just creates other problems. I'd be surprised if most women would be happier dating a guy that earns less than them. Both genders still expect the guy to be the provider.

      They're hardly going to say it to your face, are they?

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    • @Asker

      No that's not the main reason. My main reason is for companionship and love. Then comes emotional support and other things. Money itself is not a reason I want a boyfriend. I have bad news for any woman who wants a boyfriend for money.

    • I agree and I'm the same.
      I just worry that more shallow things (like money) ruin the important things.

  • It's because those guys have sexist view points - they think women should stay at home and cook and clean while they earn the money so if a woman works and is independent they are afraid their "masculinity" will be taken away. I noticed that the guys who are sexist are usually the ones afraid of general progress in society and are usually not as successful and confident in life since most confident men I've met preferred a confident and independent woman on their side. I hope that helps :)

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    • Thanks. :)

      I'm definitely pretty insecure and lacking confidence. I think my main issue is that I find it hard to believe that I will ever find a good relationship so why bother?

      I would prefer being with a more confident woman but I'm not sure it would work out. She would probably start to resent me and I wouldn't seem manly enough to her as she's making more money.

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    • try to improve your skills, learn new things you didn't know before, read that book about art deco you've always wanted to read (or not lol), learn a foreign language - just educate yourself so you'll attract educated and modern women :)

    • OK. Thanks. :)

  • As a woman who has given up a lot for a man. I would say that any relationships take work, from both sides.

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    • Are they worth all that work these days?

    • I'm the same , except for the gender reversed , so as I'm doing all the work & sick of it , I will be dumping my soon to be ex wife , can't wait to be single again & stay that way !!

  • I'm a girl obviously so I can't answer for guys... but I'm curious to know what you mean by "modern woman"... as opposed to what? Traditional women?

    By pure definition, if women are "modern" aren't all men as well? Just sayin'

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    • They are also modern and maybe men are worse but as you said, I'm a guy so I can't comment on the girls experiences.

  • Relationship wit women is always worth it. And you know it.
    Just you get dissapointed once or twice, does not mean we are all same.

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    • Thats a contradicting statement.

    • Not necessarily. Obviously some women aren't worth it at all just like some guys aren't. What I'm asking is has the amount of women that are 'worth it' decreased and is it even worth going through all the others to find them.

  • No. Guys should create time machines and go back to the 1920s to get the ideal woman.

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  • Im a 'modern woman' but I prefer going by feminist. I've been in a relationship with one guy for well over two years now. I've also never been in a relationship that was less than a year in length. I'd say I give equal amounts to the relationships. There are times when I need extra care, and there are times when my partner needs extra care.
    I find that people who complain about women, (especially the red pill but they are honestly terrifying misogynists who scare the hell out of me) have often been hurt in the past and haven't gotten over it / found the right person to get them through it and are bitter or broken.
    Otherwise they are MRA neckbeards who can't get laid because they are "just too nice!"

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    • Feminism is a hate movement. Mras simply want equal rights to women.

  • anyone who thinks im not worth it can kiss my ass., not interested in why from a person i will never want.

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    • Well there seems to be more guys like this than there was. Maybe eventually, enough will think this way that it will become a problem for you.

    • nope no problem fort me. as i said guys 'like this'; are of no interest to me... so if all guys ended up 'like this' id be perfectly happy to forgo them completely:) i get involved with someone bc i like and want them. not bc i have to be with someone or ill fall apart.,

    • money... this is about money. i dont want money from guys not have i ever accepted any. just say what your talking about instead of wrapping it up redundant labels.

      i dont get involved for money. i dont care iff he earns less. i only get involved with guys i genuinely care about. I've never been 'man hunting' it was never ages;l to find a man,. sometimes you just meet someone special.

  • How do men risk more in modern relationships, and how are women taking more than they are giving? I feel like my relationship is pretty standard, and don't feel like my partner is giving up too much, nor am I not giving back. I'd much rather have my relationship-where we are both free to follow our dreams while taking equal responsibility for our kin- than have it be an outdated relationship where I'm home all the time while my partner works.

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    • Risk more: Men typically lose more in divorce and women are more likely to initiate divorce.

      Taking more than they are giving: It seems to me that generally both genders have twisted expectations of the other. Guys generally want sex more and I think women know that and expect to be courted. This means paying for things, changing who he is, giving into her during arguments and generally being a rom com character. Guys are f**ked up too though.

    • Women post-divorce are much much more likely to live in poverty than men post-divorce. And one way to interpret women being more likely to initiate divorce is that men are less inclined to be good partners in the marriage.

  • Whats a modern woman? :P
    Me and my boyfriend are over the moon to have met each other since we are such a perfect match. I would never be able to find someone like him and neither would he he said. We both give as much

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    • Maybe you are the exceptions. I hope you are.

    • I for sure am. He is my first and only love and we will stay together forever, I just know this.

    • Good luck. :)

  • This question makes no sense to me at all.
    What is a modern woman?
    For men and women if you ever feel that you're giving more than you give, than your're either selfish or in a bad relationship.

    And the term "give up" just makes you sound pitiful. If you want something you work for it and find whats best for you. (speaking in general. not you in specific)
    I guess i'm just sick of people complaining about being alone and shit. If it's that bad then stop looking and stop whining.
    Men think like this because they're close minded and self entitled Most guys like this are hypocrites.

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  • I think if you asked some women the same question they would say the same thing, most people are bitter from experiences and past relationships or bitter to more of an extent than they would like to admit.

    I just don't understand how people get themselves into relationships where they're constantly giving and the other person is constantly taking, to me if you're dumb enough to let yourself get taken advantage of, over and over, then don't complain about it and generalize all women because of your poor personal choices.

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    • "I just don't understand how people get themselves into relationships where they're constantly giving and the other person is constantly taking, to me if you're dumb enough to let yourself get taken advantage of, over and over, then don't complain about it and generalize all women because of your poor personal choices."

      The same could be said for the women with poor relationship experience with men but then again, people will come with excuses like "Men can be deceiving", in favor of these type of women. No excuses like that were ever made for men. I obviously think the men who constantly rant on the internet about women are just pathetic individuals who get easily frustrated with life and are just a loud minority of other men who get on the internet just for a positive and peaceful use.

      However, don't pretend that women aren't guilty of the samething. There's always two sides of the coins.

    • Umm, i'm sorry but are women not people?

      ""I just don't understand how PEOPLE get themselves into relationships where they're constantly giving and the other person is constantly taking, to me if you're dumb enough to let yourself get taken advantage of, over and over, then don't complain about it and generalize all women because of your poor personal choices."

      I basically said both genders have issues with each other, not sure how you managed to see me defending women in all of this.

  • I'm pretty sure if you are straight and you want to be in a relationship, if you aren't into women of your age you'll be celibate forever. =)

    Good luck!

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    • True but I'm not sure if that's a bad thing.

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    • I realize it's rough out there - sounds like American girls are the meanest when rejecting others - so if you live there - you're in even deeper trouble. o. O
      But there are a lot of girls who are normal human beings.
      Hopefully you'll find one like that. =)

    • Thanks. :)

  • "Modern women" do you mean U. S women? Because from where I am from, in Europe, women still pretty much have high family values and tread their men good. Not that American women dom't, but apperantly a lot of men complain.

    Anyway, modern women from outside america i'd say still value their men a lot and traditions, even though we are more independent business and financial wise

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  • Some guys nowadays do not like committed relationship for several reasons, hard times, money, kids, etc they prefer the single fee life and like to have only one nitght stands friends with benefits becase theyknow those are not committed relationhip and theycan get away with it pretty easy.

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  • I dunno why some men say we aren't worth it, but I don't care 'cause I don't want to date those guys. I'm a modern woman and I have choices.

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    • Do you think any of their concerns are relevant?

    • I think their concerns are based in painful experience, and I'm sympathetic to that, but their concerns aren't relevant to me because (1) I don't enjoy negativity so they are men whose company I will avoid and (2) I'm not guilty of the sins they're complaining about so I don't feel obliged to try to fix it for them. If MY boyfriend started complaining that _I_ had become selfish and domineering and inconsiderate of his needs, that would make me snap to attention. If my friends, male or female, were telling me, "damn, you really shouldn't treat him like that," I'd take it as a wake up call. I'm lucky to have found my boyfriend, he seems to feel lucky to be with me, and we both put a lot of energy into treating each other well. People who are pissed off at the opposite gender just aren't where I'm spending my time.

  • I guess I'm confused by all this Mumbo jumbo. If you care to explain how you would define a modern woman (according to you) that would be great.

    Don't mind to bring you more news but ONS, friends with benefits type relationships and even casual dates even existed during my father's time who was born in the early 50's.

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    • High expectations, good career, good pay.

      Basically I just mean the modern relationship.

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    • Don't it's the fact of them wanting only the man to be the breedwinner but rather that's what men want once a baby gets involved. It's usually us that has to either quit our job or limit our working hours when a child is involved so basically this limits our enhancement towards the business world for years until what? the child is 10 years old? That's still 10 years of our life limited.

    • don't think... there have been posts about guys complaining about women that choice having a career first and then family, not realizing that if we want both a career and family, we have to then work less hours while being stuck doing more household chores and he's not even helping with the chores... how is that fair?
      So in a way if he's not even going to help with the household chores 50%, then it makes sense why he would have to be the breadwinner at least.

  • I think it depends on the character of the guy.

    It takes a smart, open-minded, non-misogynistic and respectful guy to date a modern women.

    I'd call myself a modern woman, meaning I like things equally. And still some traditional roles in the bedroom or special occasions.

    I wouldn't want to get a guy who thinks women are only good for domestic work and fucking. No sir, if you think like that, you're a low quality breed

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    • That wasn't what I meant. Quite the opposite in fact.

  • Depends on the woman. You have to develop a sharp eye for internal underdevelopment.

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  • People like freedom. Being single means you are more free to do what you want.

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    • Why is it mostly guys that think this though? And why does it seem to be increasing?

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    • @Asker Do you have anything to support your thought that it is increasing?

      I'm sure men were thinking similar things about women 50, 100, 1000 years ago. Just like women were likely thinking similar things about men back in the day.

      Most of it is probably selective biased generalizations. Not sure if all 3 words needed to be used lol. I feel our society is moving toward breaking from generalizations. More people probably feel comfortable being unique and an individual than ever. But maybe I focus on different types of people than you.

  • This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen all week. Do you really want to compare modern MEN to other men? Because if anyone has the right to "give up" it's women

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    • What do you mean by, the right to give up?

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    • Easy I was hoping for a legitimate answer why I should take the links you listed as serious. Getting angry and lashing out at me just makes me think you dont have one. You try to dismiss someone else's facts as meaningless, but give no reason why a person should believe the articles you referenced. Like I'm said one is an opinion piece and the other is starting with men cheat more as the premise behind the experiment they are conducting. Which is not about finding who cheats more at all.

    • No sir, you have not taken in what I have given you properly, which makes you an ignorant fool. I can't fix something that's already broken beyond repair, so why would I try to fix you?

  • I think we are well worth it.

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    • Ok. Do you think guys are worth it?

    • The men I date are worth it. There are lots of great people in the world - why settle for a relationship that doesn't make us both happy?

    • @oldlady Because it's better than being alone?

  • They guy I like is name is mike ottis
    And we both agreed to be friends and what to hang out before deciding yo go down that dating path. its work out so far pretty good. there are still those modern guys and girls.

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  • Frankly, men have only themselves to blame when they all always fall for mean girls and ignore all the signs that are saying she isn't worth it, while ignoring also all the worthwhile girls who just really, really want someone to be with. Men like the punishing pushy and demanding women.

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  • Why, whats wrong with women today? I thought the quality of relationships depended on the what kinda person he or she is...

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  • Men want women with traditional values. Not a woman who wants all the benefits of a committed relationship without being willing to endure the hardships and sacrafices.

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  • More from Girls
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What Guys Said 45

  • Define modern woman, will you? The only ways I can think of in which the status of women has changed is that they have more civil rights, more money and therefore independence, and are better educated. It'd be hard to find something negative about that specifically and why it would make me lose desire in a relationship.

    Also, just seeing your age and the age of most people here, how would you know the difference between dating 'modern' women and whatever came prior to that? It sounds like those 'many guys' might simply have a problem with dating women period, and maybe are just trying to find something to blame them for by inventing this idea of a 'modern' woman as a negative thing.

    I have to admit I have a problem caring about the complaints of anyone who has a problem with an entire gender.

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    • My thoughts exactly. I'm a bit skeptical of the "modern woman" claims

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    • "It's actually really straightforward to have standards as a man, it just means you're not going to have easy relationships and easy sex. And in a situation where you demand effort out of your girlfriend and you're worth that effort, she'll work to keep you just as much as you'd have to work to keep her. All of you are really just whining and blaming everyone but yourselves." As i said men biologically have lower standards (even without studying this, which i have, basic logic dictates women will be more picky biologically , the gender that gets pregnant and has far more risk in reproduction, a small amount of men can knock up all the women, Pareto's principle caused by bateman's principle etc.)

    • And why raise our standards when it will just make it harder.

      "All of you are really just whining and blaming everyone but yourselves." No ones to blame, since women being more picky is biologically natural, why would we blame ourselves? when simply by virtue of being a man dating is harder for us in general?

  • Okay modern woman means modern in thinking as well as outlook right?

    It depends from guy to guy and on the situation but to answer your question, it's both yes and no. It is yes provided the woman is highly principled/disciplined, by principled I mean the woman is modern in her thinking and outlook but at the same time she has high morals, doesn't have any bad habits and is smart, intelligent. . Moreover, a modern woman will not worry about culture, parental/societal restrictions/pressures and other factors she will have the power to take decisions and will always do what is right according to her thinking. This is something that an old fashion woman lacks. Hence in this case, the relationship with a modern woman is totally worth it.

    However there are some drawbacks of a modern woman, the drawabacks can be a modern woman can be arrogant rather than assertive, can be disrespectful and may be a long list of bad habits like smoking, drinking etc and if the guy turns out to be highly principled then it can be a problem, a big problem and so in this case the relationship with a modern woman is not worth it.

    Hence in short I would a relationship with a modern woman is worth it if she is not only modern (thinking/outlook) but also highly principled and has no bad habits otherwise modern women are not worth it.

    I apologize if this is long, but that's my view.

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    • Men can be arrogant, disrespectful, and have a long list of bad habits as well. I'm sure there were many woman long ago that had those things as well. I'm not really sure those are modern traits of either gender. They are traits that have been around for a long time and will most likely be around quite a while longer, for both genders.

      I don't mean this as an insult to your view, I just don't understand what bad habits and bad personalities have to do with a specific gender.

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    • @mrf284212 Women where never treated like children. Women were rulers, they had jobs etc. If however they chose to marry then that was a social contract that stated men would take care of them and in return they would have the privledge of reproducing. As for divorce: www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...orce-more-than-men.html
      This is the less sex article: www.scientificamerican.com/.../
      This is some statistics on children raised in single parenthomes since you think the two parent system being unprogressive as a negative: www.photius.com/.../facts_on_fatherless_kids.html
      and archive.news-leader.com/.../single-parents-Ozarks-poverty
      As for looking at women as children when it comes to the military: www.westernjournalism.com/.../
      Also the fact that you would suggest that a father was the deciplinarian and not a mother kind of suggests a preconcived bias of men being more violent towards children then men, here ya go: www.americanhumane.org/.../...lect-statistics.html
      "Approximately 40 percent of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 18.3 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 17.3 percent were abused by both parents (USDHHS, 2007)." fathers where/are financially responsible for offspring mothers where not.

    • @mrf284212 As for the complaints, they probably did, and you are right, they both are equally flawed. The problems as I have stated is that society pampers one and not the other creating an imbalance. As for the cheating quote I was just giving you an example of the mentality to show that others have taken notice of the double standard, its in your wrighting if you look empiricly. However I have seen it here and other places where the blame of a cheating wife will be placed on the husband because he was negligent. Even in your dismissal of complaints shows a general bias, if this many people are complaining isn't it potentially for something. I am not saying they are not also to blame but it should at least be considered. While your statment about adaption is technicly true, it is ignoreing the fact tha societal change is unnatural selection and as such has a greater leeway of producing less viable beings, not more.

  • Worth what? Continued bloodline, friendship, pleasure?

    I forget who said it and the exact quote, but it goes something like this: Everyone who is alive is a winner. We lasted millions of years of evolution to take our first breath and many millions after. If a person has no offspring, they will technically no longer be considered a winner. If a person's offspring or offspring's offspring gets killed off, once again, no longer a winner.

    I don't know about you, but having my offspring continue on forever is my goal. So not only does my biology need passed on, but my idea of an environment of billions of opportunities and comfortable lifestyles for everyone needs to be passed on. So yeah, continued bloodline, definitely worth it.

    Friendship is probably one of the most important things in creating an efficient and self sufficient society. Friendships make communication so much easier, and those that have the best communication, typically have the best form of progress. So yeah, friendship is definitely worth creating a better environment.

    Pleasure helps lessen many negative things hindering a person to be the most efficient and self sufficient person they can be. It may not always have the most direct route to making a better environment, but typically it will still follow that path. So once again, definitely worth it.

    But I guess it's only worth it to people that want to be a winner in the truest sense on the word. Do you want your survival just in the hands of your decaying flesh (which happens to everything), or do you want survival to be in your flowing, pumping blood?

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    • @hellionthesage The time reference wasn't really in reply to you. Most, if not all, has nothing to do with what I was talking about with serious, the opinion owner. I'll reply to a few things anyways though.

      A lot of the reasons it is not as "acceptable" for men to be a stay at home dad, do house work, make less money, etc is because men shame themselves and propagate insults towards womenlike men. I'm sure women do it to men as well. Just like both men and women shame women for whatever reasons.

      Who fat/skinny/slut shames men? From my understanding anyone who shames a heavier person (both male and female) is seen as a bad person in society. I do think skinny people do get shamed a lot (both male and female), but I'm skinny so I'll probably notice that more often.

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    • 3. You are correct I don't like gender roles, but what have I stated that shows I am forcing anything to abolish them? I don't want to be told what to do, say, or think because of my gender, ethnicity, age, etc. I assume most people are like that, perhaps I am wrong. If people want to do, say, or think things that are commonly associated with a gender, ethnicity, age, etc; then I have no problem with that. Show me where I have stated otherwise in my comments. Show me how my mentality is forcing anything on anyone.

      4. My sister is a librarian, a female dominated field. They are more likely to hire and promote men in that field, assuming there are men to hire and promote; which there are where my sister works. They are catering to men to get them more interested in that field. I have no proof, but I'm sure there are other female dominated fields that do the same.

    • 5. I don't really see how the Dr. Warren Farrell video has to do with any of my topics, but I'm glad you linked it. I'll have to look into him more. Can you show me where I have said anything counter to what he said in that video?

      6. I didn't realize mediocrity was your topic. When was that mentioned? If you could sum up your claim for your topic or topics, then I'll review everything you wrote. I don't need an explanation or details of your claim/topic (not yet anyways), just the claim/topic.

  • I get what you mean by "modern" but there is some lee-way. Women who perform to fit the modern form of the female role in relationships as is, on average, currently socially acceptable sometimes curse themselves unknowingly. It seems as if it's now a rite of passage for a woman to be in a relationship, have sex, and then cheat or premeditatedly end the relationship themselves. The modern woman seems to get a rush from making a man fall in love with her then for him to only be kissing her feet while she laughs mere weeks later. It's a shift in power that's rather counterproductive for "modern" women in terms of successful courtship. It's the ego that media attaches. I find it funny. Women are social beings so their social valuation is fed by following socially (promoted) acceptable norms. There are some good ones out there for damn sure, in any case our generation is fucked. Two soulmates could lose their single chance at love in life because of a misinterpreted text message. Both sexes are too hesitant and indifferent, socially undignified. Most men just want a good woman to care and provide for and come home to without worrying about them misusing their trust. What each sex is taught as normal courtship in the modern era is really quite psychotic. It's inhuman. Machined from scientific studies, psychological and emotional manipulation in a day where full exploitation of trust takes place daily over letters and words sent between phone to phone.

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  • Its really hard, women have so much freedom which would be fine except men have all the corresponding responsibilities. Men have to provide for there families, which is exceptable if not out right necessary, but before a woman could only get a divorce if there was a justifiable cause. Now she can divorce for no reason at all and take everything he has. I do believe there are still good women who are not brainwashed by this idea that they don't need men but rather that we need eachother in order to survive but I have a hard time finding them.

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  • I believe in love and emotional connection, however definitely not marriage. The real problem for men however is not having any reproductive nor rights in a relationship. Women - either passively or actively through feminism - have hated on men for over 5 decades and as a result men no longer trust them. 80% of divorces are brought by women (which shows what they really think of 'commitment'). Men, according to the head of the Crown prosecution service (Alison Saunders - a fenminist) are guilty of rape until proven innocent. Men almost always loose their children in divorce court along with their homes (which they have to work for). Men are the majority of workpace deaths, suicides, homeless and war dead. Yes most definitely it is not worth trusting a woman with your life nor deepest feelings - the result is more often than not that you'll be punished for it either in your relationship or legally.

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    • Why do guys one here have to generalize women and tell us how all of us think based on a few "bad women"? And why not marriage? All I've ever wanted is a guy who i love and who loves me and to be in a relationship that will last and eventually lead to marriage, I've spend a long time chasing after a guy who i thought was 'the one' and its left me only with heart break so i disagree

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    • I can't speak for other women obviously but when I get married, I marry for love only and it is would be forever.

    • That's a nice sentiment though I think a little naive. Passion, love, comittment they can all wane and if they do men are left with nothing. Most men think like that too, it's not a matter of love or attraction, everyone has that, it's a matter of "here I am at 45 paying alimony and child support". Not a single man or woman ever got married who thought it would happen to them.

  • Women have so much more freedom and opportunity like many men have, that having to settle for a guy doesn't have to be an option anymore. There's nothing about women themselves that's inherently different but it's flipping millenia of power structure on it's head and seems like some guys just by natural instinct are having a hard time with those types of independent women. I think you still have to look at the core of who a person is and if it fits what you find acceptable then stop worrying about societal change like that when it comes to finding a partner.

    You can see it with some women as well who become powerful sometimes have a hard time finding someone who is 1) not intimidated by their success 2) has SOMETHING going on in his life. I know a guy who sabotaged two relationships with women who were doctors or lawyers because their confidence somehow resided in who they were in relation to their partners. He ended up being with a woman who was a cashier because that's what he felt comfortable being with.

    Im ok with modern women though, its given me a little zest that I need to do better too. It's a time of transition socially in that regard so there's going to be some bumps along the road. I still don't like some of the crazy feminists that pop out once in a while, seems like they're going on about it wrong.

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  • In real life, men date and are in relationships with women all the time! Don't let GaG or the internet fool you! ;-)

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  • I really have no interest in dating modern western women. Society panders to them to the point that they begin to develop a princess complex. Women in the U. S are not required to register for the selective service, serve less time for the same crimes compared to men, make out like bandits and almost universally get child custody in divorce courts.

    Its not uncommon for women to have sex with a guy then in an attempt to maintain their social rankings ( not being consider a slut) they will either claim the guy has harassing them or even that they were raped and as a result of social and legal bias in favor of women, the one that promoted the princess complex in the first place most people will believe the women by default, even if she has not way to prove anything she said because it was all fabricated.

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  • Fifty percent divorce rate, mostly initiated by women. You're basically flipping a coin. No, not really worth it, you're better off going abroad.

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    • That doesn't say why though. My mom divorced my dad for drug use, others have divorced because of infidelity (most common) if guys could keep it in their pants maybe it wouldn't be that way. I know some women that have cheated on their husbands, because of their husband being absent all the time.

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    • @love2run13 Nice try hun but I'm nearly 27, I am old enough to have seen how most of y'all do. Yeah, there are EXCEPTIONS, but they're considered exceptional because most women are NOT like that!

    • Divorce stats actually paint women in a very negative light, women are more unfaithful (simply because women have more purely sexual options) and women are shown to be prostitutes (they divorce because their husband isn't making money, almost never is a women divorced for not making money). @Coffinspire

  • It's only worth it if you find a female with whom it's actually worth it. You need to weed through the unempathetic and the irresponsible.

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    • *and the immature and the sexist. Unfortunately, there are many who "cling to traditional values", but that just means they're sexist and don't see you as a person.

  • Well, modern woman, old fashioned woman. It doesn't really matter. Im me and the relationship is always on my terms. I am an old fashioned guy.
    I pay on dates. I hold the door. I expect politeness. I expect a woman to act like a woman and not a sailor.
    I expect honesty and respect. I deliver the same. I dont date promiscuous women. I don't date women who want a man to take the back seat. I dont date women who are loud and obnoxious. If they want that, they are with the wrong man.
    The women I date want a man and not a doormat. They want someone who will care for them and love them. I guess it is old fashioned. Too damned bad. It's how I am.

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  • I've given up on relationships so far, but not because I don't like modern women, I actually prefer an independent woman, but because I don't want one right now, I have trust issues I need to get fixed, I prefer to be single and be with more women than just one, I don't want drama, and I don't wanna get cheated on, something that it's way too common at my age, with both men and women.

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  • "most" women in my area are broken. They dont have any confidence or any good self image, either as a man you get kicked away or lead on. They dont know if your fucking purposes are really love or not, but they do enjoy the attention you feed them. So its a complex situation. Imagine: you give attention, flirt etc... and she keeps receiving it and answering positive to these signals, just to realise she was leading you on. Its like she opened up and everything.
    Thats why im sick of these girls. Than they wonder why theyre called attention seeking.
    Theyre broken as fuck inside and try to hide it, and find a man who makes them feel complete/wanted and attractive, and once you offer them that what they want, they just toss you around. Been there, fuck her.

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    • On the other side of this, there's the girls who want to be in a relationship with a man and find a guy she likes and then finds out he just wanted sex. Men are just as broken as women.

    • well there is an obv difference between a guy who wants sex and a relationship. I've seen it, and now this complains about how she fucking fell for it and how its NOT HER fault. I mean like damn how stupid and ignorant can you be, then they come cry to me. I tell them its their fault, they get hurt again and go in self defense..; And then they come seek validation back again, and fucking flirt, i tried to look where it ends, i give her the boosts she needs, nothing more and less. They keep coming back and giving all the signals, and when its all said and done, they fucking dissapear again and tell everyone how im an asshole like WTF.

      GIrl I've seen you "naked", how pitifull and on the bottom you were laying. All i did was give you a fucking name and style to run with just cause i had high hopes and saw potential in you. The only thing they do i run away with it.. Like srs, i really hope you get used...

  • I prefer an old fashioned women to be honest, as I am an old fashioned person, I guess modern women or rather ones that act with the times are rather exhausting as @justbanANNAz stated. It does not help that they have society bearing down on them to look, act a certain way and such.

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  • its becoming increasingly not worth it.

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  • Gender relations are at an all time low. Almost 50% of all marriages end in divorce. Half of all men in the US are not married. Women initiate more than 90% of all divorces. I think women just have kid in a candy store fever now. They'll keep you around until the next best thing comes along, then you're out the door with her walking off with half your savings, your house, and your dog. It's not that men have given up on women per se, but more that the laws and the government favor women heavily in proceedings for things like divorce and child custody. Why risk your offspring and your economic well being on a woman who could stab you in the back with the government's help? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

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  • I've had almost zero interest in 99.999% of the girls I've met in my life (and I've met a heck of a lot). The kind of girl that I'm looking for, I don't think even exists anymore and if she does, it's got to be in some random city that no one really knows much about in Japan somewhere or something.

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    • What are some characteristics of the type of woman you are looking for?

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    • For the ones that I mentioned, though there are others, sure, I'd agree.

      I'm not sure what you're getting at, exactly. I know what you asked, but I wish to know why?

    • I'm assuming you agreed with many characteristics you enjoy the company of are not gender specific. If not, let me know.

      I'm not really sure what part you aren't sure I am getting at, but I'll try to clarify.

      I don't really see much of a difference in how men and women act in terms of good personality and good friendship. I don't understand the difference between boy/girlfriend and friends, other than sex. So I look for the same characteristics in both genders when I cast judgement on them. If I have a physical attraction to a person with the non gender specific characteristics I like, then that can have potential for a different type of friendship.

      So I guess I'm curious if you see men and women differently in terms of having friendship qualities. Not that I'm saying you would want to be friends with the women, just that can you recognize those qualities in women in the same way you can recognize them in men. And how prevalent are the qualities in each gender.

  • Um.. you can still hook up with women without wanting anything serious. You'll find a large chunk of "modern women" are sick of the guys who fall in love after getting some, anyway.

    I didn't see anything like this in the options, so making sure you knew that.

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  • Of course women think they're worth the trouble, although the vast majority of men here seem to disagree. Modern women do kind of suck. Traditional women are the only ones worth marriage, but many men now are either too stupid or intimidated to find and court one.

    Hay in a needlestack

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    • This is stupid, we do not suck. The only thing that sucks is the amount of attitude and negativity in this comment...

    • Women now smoke too much, drink too much, and sleep around too much. Anything feminine is sexist and most of them dont how to act like a woman cause their mother was too focused on getting a paycheck.

      What do women now have to offer that is worth marrying them for?

  • Women do ask for more than they give, women simply have to be half decent looking to be attractive to most men , while women ask for a lot more. Women have a higher sexual worth than men (reproduction dynamics and risk of pregnancy make this so), thus women will require more intensive to be with a man. Is it worth it? fuck i i ask my self that question a lot, and i don't know.

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    • As you can see "what choice do i have" is the most popular , the first one doesn't count because it is is just women voting for themselves at a high number. Most men don't have much choice, most of us will end up in a bitter resentful relationship.

    • Bottom line, women have far more choice, they are hypergamous, it far easier for them until they reach like 35

  • I voted E.
    It seems to be a waste of time. Almost all women are unsuitable for any long term relationship. And before you say that there are some who are worth the trouble, yes there are some. But they're too few and not all of us can have one.

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    • Exactly. I'm getting sick and tired of the NAWALT being regurgitated. So what if there's three chicks in the country who are still marriage material? There are like millions of us guys. Women suck at math though so good luck explaining that to them.

  • Equally... Do women want men in their lives? I get the impression they generally can't stand guys , maybe it's just the women I work with , a lot hate guys !! Yes there are more than enough dickhead guys & I'm sure as hell not perfect myself. Once I've sorted splitting from my soon to be ex wife... I can't see myself dating , I have nothing against women , but I will be happier solo , have little need for other people & I just want peace & quiet !!

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  • Long term romantic relationships? Sure!

    Legal marriage? Nope nope nope. No paperwork or legal involvement.

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  • Can you define "modern woman," please?

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    • Typically: educated, confident, opinionated, independent, assertive, and sexually liberated.

      Basically, the opposite of a meek, virginal housewife that's easy to control and acts as a surrogate mother.

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    • @Dandeus

      I was raised to be a good homemaker and mother. I saved myself for marriage. So according to you, I'm a meek virginal housewife that's easy to control and acts as a surrogate mother? Why is it OK for people to hate on women like me but as soon as I have something to say about "modern women" I'M the bad person?

    • @magdalena93

      Nothing wrong with being a housewife, my mom is a housewife, and meek she is not. The tone of my comment is directed at the way men who complain about modern women view women, not at the women themselves.

  • Depends, yes I do think the relationships are worthless but of course if it goes sour, you can walk away. Unless you're dating a crazy which is determined to screw you over.

    The two forms of relationships which I see as the most pointless are marriage and her living with you, those are very one-sided deals, and they're not in the man's favor.

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  • I have to be careful not to be with women with modern values because its a waste of time there are not very good girls any more

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    • What is defined as a good women? Is there a difference between a good man and a good woman?

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    • I don't really know of any traits that are more suited for a certain gender.

    • They are definitely traits that are more important women look for certain traits in guy and vice versa but I see what you mean a good person is a good person but women and men aren't the same in every way

  • As long as you see a future with that person it worth it. Don't generalize. There is nothing wrong with modern women's.

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  • Id rather have a woman that makes her own story than one that follows someone elses. Bring the emotionaly strong and the ones that know what they want my way. If we connect we connectand ill be happy.

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  • There are sexy, traditional, sane, sweethearts around. You just have to look for a long time to get one. Longest search will be if you live in the West. You'll find them faster if you go East.

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