Are "women's high expectations" in dating actually made up by men?

[Anonymous]

Let's be real. We all love our stereotypes.
Could it be that women's high expectations in dating are just that? Generic stereotypes made up in men's heads?

On most occasions:
• You don't need to be over 6' feet tall, just taller then her.
• You don't need to be rich, just to have a secure average paying job.
• You don't need to be a hunk, just take enough care your looks.
• You don't have to be an asshole, just to have a backbone.

Updates

+1 y

Just saw a documentary on sex. It's on Netflix.
Seconds episode talks about attraction. It's literally scientifically proven that women are more flexible with what they find attractive than men are.

Updates

+1 y

If you want feel free to give your input here as well
Genuinely good guy vs bad boy: who gets the girl? ↗

[Anonymous]

You’re right, most all of those expectations are in men’s heads. Where the obsession with height comes from I have no idea, other than really tall women often look for a mate who is of equal height or taller. The rest of us don’t care. As far as job goes, just have one. I don’t care if it’s picking up trash in the park or dropping French fries at McDonald’s. Just be of use to some employer. The chances that he makes more money than I do are extremely slim, and probably always will be. As expected, your post sure flushed out some really angry and bitter men.

[Asker]

Louder for the people in the back!

[ChiTown33]

The problem with this response is no they're not expectations until they are lol. A woman may simply just not want to go out for a guy for whatever reason. So she creates these barriers to deter him from bothering her. Lol

[Opinion Owner]

“I’m not interested” works just fine. Why bother with creating “barriers” Lol. A lot of us have no problem telling a guy to get lost if he persists. There’s no need to explain anything.

[natured]

Sunshine, Men will still not believe you, I'm completely on your side here, but Men are yet convinced that we're monsters running after "bad Boys" and after their money and all this bullcrap that they see in movies..
Sad but true
I'm just like you I totally groove with your midset

[zagor]

I think some women don't want to just say, "I don't want to go out with you because I'm not interested in you" so they make up something about height or job so it isn't as personal.

[VanillaSalt]

There’s definitely a plethora of women whom want a 6’ man with 6 figures and a 6 pack… It’s also true their the vocal majority. It’s also true that women are more likely to do a man dirty then a man will a woman. Sure cheatings pretty balanced between the sexes but take into consideration the perks women get for being women. Things like women and children first, chivalry, and alimony. If there’s a problem men are expendable, women get natural respect and care from every simp in existence just for being, and women are behind 80% of the divorce filings… regardless what side your on or what you think men tend to get a raw deal when interacting with women.

Hell I myself have experiences. I was accused of sexual assault in Jr high. Complete lie and I hardly knew the girl so I didn’t even know why. If that happened to my son today… my poor boy could be in prison without evidence. And before you argue I’ve got cases that has actually happened. I’ve been yelled at by a woman in a crowded supermarket for holding the door to the milk open and saying excuse me. Do you understand how embarrassing it is to be stared at by dozens of people while being admonished by some woman I didn’t exchange even 3 words with? I’m also been cheated on… 3 times. Both emotion and physical cheating and in one relation she was verbally and physically abusive.

Laws, rules, society, government, women, and even men see women as more valuable then me. Well I’m sorry I don’t agree. My voice is not silent next to a woman’s. And I sure as hell ain’t going to be abused without fighting back. Equal lefts for equal rights.

How does all this tie into women’s expectations? Men don’t like or trust women these days. And the vocal part of your genders well trash. Their the portion of women most men have seen and experienced and so with such mistrust for you you expect them to listen when you say something like “not all women.” Dating was ruined by women. Not even a majority of women just a select minority.

[VanillaSalt]

Women used to bitch about promiscuous men… now they same why can’t I… normally you emulate the best of people to be better not the worst.

[Opinion Owner]

Feel better?

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

You nailed it here💯 Yes, I believe so, 💯... Hope more men listen to what you said here, instead of the men that keep the inaccurate assumptions, stereotypes alive...

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Thanks for mh... Laughing at the downvotes🤣

[AmandaYVR]

I was going to answer 'no' to your question and the first paragraph.
But then it's also true, what you said in the second.

Some guys just make up excuses and prefer to blame girls for what is really their own inadequacy and a competitive dating marketplace. People aren't gifted partners. You do have to rise up and be better than others. That's life.
But there are also girls whose expectations are so high, they won't be happy with 'regular' guys (even if they're a 'regular' and flawed individual themselves), so they choose to not be in a relationship.
Some guys are just sooo lazy and uninteresting and don't put much effort in. But some girls are way overvaluing themselves. Is that based on the attention they get on their social media accounts? I wonder. It could also be parenting styles and how kids have been emboldened to think they're better than they actually are. Again, not everyone is 'the best.'

[jennifer_bloom]

If a guy has a good personality, or an attractive one and works hard, he will be able to find somebody even if he is very ugly, and most guys look better than very ugly.

[Chthou95]

Lmao personality won't do jack shit

[garykingg]

@Chthou95 True. A woman has a biological drive to find the best possible mate, which means the guy with the best genes. Most girls say her husband or boyfriend has a great personality when it's just basically looks. Girls say that so that they don't look shallow.

[Asker]

@garykingg not true. Personality is what will ultimately make her fall in love with you.

[Chthou95]

Bullshit

[Asker]

@Chthou95 I am really sorry you never had a partner who made you feel that way. I really am and hope you find that someone one day.

[Chthou95]

Dont need it man. Im red pilled and good to go

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@Chthou95 and that's your problem, not women🤣

[Chthou95]

@Brainsbeforebeauty Who said being red pilled is a problem?

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@Chthou95 To each their own🤷

[SupremeWarlord]

@Chthou95 If personality didn't matter, then you would not see women dumping hot guys for being douches, or for being from a different religion, whatever.

I mean, I get that there are women who tolerate crap from men because he's hot or rich, but they are not the only ones in existence.

[DWornock]

@garykingg That is close but not completely accurate. Very few women can marry men with the best genes. Therefore, they do the best they can but they also look for guy that is dependable and a good provider for her and her children. Then, when she is ovulating, provided there is a low risk that her husband will find out, she will have sneaky sex with a guy with best genes available to her. Women that did not select the best available genes for their eggs are not our ancestors.

[SupremeWarlord]

@DWornock Yeah I already read about that also, fuck evolution.

But this is changing a bit in modern society, where women don't depend on men anymore for protection, the thing is that this makes it easier for them to cheat. More successful women are more likely to cheat, since they're less likely to have less bad consequences than a dependent woman if their marriage fail. Actually, they're already starting to use the "provider" card on some males who want to depend on them. Things are very complex in modern society.

[SupremeWarlord]

less likely to have bad consequences*

[mpodeszek]

Very true its about tye personality

[mpodeszek]

♥️♥️♥️

[MCheetah]

Nah. Maybe the women you've met are nicer than the ones I have. Also, even the so-called "realistic" standards are still shallow AF.

You're still expected to be tall. And "just having a job" has never been good enough for the women I've met or else a guy working at McDonalds or Target would be "good enough" for her. "Take care of your looks" IS being a hunk; who TF has time to go to the gym 14 hours a week? Are you kidding me? I can see if you said "Don't be 100 pounds obese" or something. And as someone who has a backbone, I assure you, women do not like that UNLESS you are said 10/10 "stereotype." They subconsciously think "you are too ugly and beneath me to be confident."

I think you ARE a six foot+, fit athletic man, saying all of this, while thinking he's "average." The "average" guy looks like Seth Rogen, but some people think "average" is Henry Cavill.

Lastly, I'll leave you with this: Just a small microcosm of how women judge men when they aren't worried about their public reputation being damaged.

Just remember guys; you're being told you're inferior and worthless due to your height, looks, income, etc, by WOMEN LIKE THIS. And people then wonder why so many men are "giving up" or why men claim women have "high expectations."

[roy_treves]

While I agree with some of what you said, I do think the examples you brought in the pictures are of women who truly represent the low of the low. Be honest, would you even want to date them? Even if they are attractive, they value such shallow attributes... why would you care about them. Let them have their fun with the douches.

I think all those examples you brought are from tinder. A terrible place if you are looking for a serious relationship. From my extremely limited experience (of a total 0 relationships), all these apps are trash and a massive waste of time (sometimes also money), as much as it sucks it isn't as easy as swiping left and right forever.

Meeting people IRL is the only way you could possibly know someone based on something more than their physical appearance. I'm sure even women who obviously have it extremely easy in dating apps (talking about getting matches), get shitty dates. The only thing you might be jealous of them is the ease of getting a hookup, if that's what you're looking for. In that case, yeah, the average guy is shit out of luck.

[MCheetah]

@roy_treves
The thing is, they're not even the lowest of the low. These are typical 18 to 25 year old women. (Not that that is "my type," just saying this is common.) The point isn't whether I would date them or not; of course I wouldn't. The point is, this isn't exactly "rare" like some men like to believe. The only difference between these women and others is, these ones are the honest ones.

I'm sure you've also seen that OKCupid study that said that women think 93% of men are unattractive looking. Are they all just "the lowest of the low," too? And it's not like this is confirmation bias or I go looking for this sh*t, either. You don't have to go "looking for it" when it's right in front of your face, and everywhere. You don't have men from all walks of life saying the same thing; they can't all be "incels" like these same women like to claim.

And it's not just the "Stacys" who are like this, either. Hypergamy is very real. Even 4 out of 10 women who are unattractive and have bad attitudes (like the 5th Tinder pic I showed) still expect 10/10 men. The "Princess Syndrome." And I mean, when they have an endless sea of simps bathing them with affection, why wouldn't they have inflated egos and massive entitlement? You can't even blame these women for being arrogant and entitled.

I've never been the "hookup type" and I hate hookup culture. I'm just less than six feet and not a 10/10 Michael B. Jordan or Henry Cavill type, so I know what it's like. Just linking those pics above was enough to bring back depression flashbacks. Dating apps is like a lightning rod for depression for men. And it's a confidence booster for women. Only thing is, real life isn't that much better. All these women on these apps aren't just bots or AI programs. They're real women. The internet just allows you to see a more honest side of them.

[roy_treves]

Yeah I see what you mean. Also those statistics are crazy. I tried some of those apps. Took me about a month to realize every single one of them is trash.

The sad truth is that casual dating is much more difficult for men than for women. But I believe serious relationships are just as difficult for both genders, its just that women go through a lot more guys on the way. Some guys would actually be happy that's how it is.

Personally I like just how easy it is for me to see when I should steer clear of a "Princess" as you called them. But I can't say I like the situation of how difficult it is to find good dates. The one thing I do know is that it won't be through those dating apps.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No. Women actively state they want a tall man, this is women putting that on men not the other way around (they are very consistent with that.)
worldofbuzz.com/.../
www.psychologytoday.com/.../why-many-women-want-be-tall-men

You don't need to be rich. . . you do need to be well off however. Studies consistently show that women are less likely to marry a man who makes less then them, more likely to divorce and be unhappy in relationships with men who make less or are stay at home dads.
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...ancy-rich-men-more.html
www.thetimes.co.uk/.../women-really-do-prefer-rich-men-study-finds-f2gjhr5gh

You do need to be attractive. You don't need to be a ten, but you do need to be attractive as studies have shown.
www.livescience.com/...-more-than-personality.html

You don't have to be an asshole, but many women do confuse being an asshole with having a backbone, being an asshole with confidence and thus women do actively go after assholes (though it usually isn't something that lasts).
nypost.com/.../
www.medicaldaily.com/bad-boy-narcissistic-dark-triad-375294
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...men-strong-fathers.html

So unfortunately, they really do have high expectations, far higher then men's it turns out. Sadly we cannot really acknowledge it because men will either be black pilled (become bitter and nihilistic when it comes to dating) or because women's strength lies in our perception of them being vulnerable and benevolent (even though deep down we know they are human beings just like men and thus are bound to the same shallowness and same manipulation and same biological drives as men (i. e. finding the best mate to ensure their and their offsprings survival). Believing these expectations don't exist is simply rationalization (understandable, we always look at things in a positive light whether that be ourselves, those we like, or even our own cultures). Women are not evil or anything, but they are human.
www.yourtango.com/.../women-find-80-percent-men-unattractive-says-crazy-study

[Asker]

Women want a men taller than they are. Not necessarily a man over 6'.

Statistically marriages where the couple makes similar amounts last longer. Also today in 1/3 of all relationships women make more.

There are plenty guys out there, who don't look that attractive or are that rich that have life long partners.

As they get older they can tell the difference very we don't worry.

So it is men who actually got into their head that they need to be this perfect man in order to attract anyone. Not true at all.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Never said over six feet, I said taller and yes they actually prefer over six feet but they won't turn down a guy under six feet just for that.

Statistically marriages where women make less then the man last longer and those women are happier as per the links I have presented. and yes women are out earning men as schools have basically forced boys and men out resulting in women getting married much later in life as they are willing to wait so long as they find a guy who makes more money then them.

Never said a man cannot get a partner without looking good, not sure why you would make that argument. What I stated is that women do in fact have expectations of physical attractiveness. A woman is not going to date "down", she will find a man of same attractiveness or better which can be offset to a small extent if the man is rich.

As the studies show, no, women consistently find psychopathic, sociophatic, and narcassistic men more attractive. I also didn't include the study that shows that bullies get far more sex then non bullies. So again, that is not correct based upon the scientific data.

So again, these standards exist as the scientific evidence that I presented (multiple sources no less) shows. What your doing is rationalizing because your afraid to admit the truth, that women are human beings and they can be just as shallow and shitty as the rest of us. If that is the case then that means their is no pure love, their is no chance for a man that is less to get a woman of high quality (which should go without saying, tens date tens, they do not date ones).

Your not rejecting my statements and the science because its not true, your rejecting it because your afraid it is true and that is a world you don't want to live in so you choose to ignore it, that is all.

[Asker]

I don't know about more or less, but I have seen that when they make similar amount the marriages last longer.
In the old days women had no choice, but to make less because they didn't work. Today that mentality is still very present. Women who make very little and can't live on their own have to stay in the marriage. So of course it lasts longer. If they are happier, well what else will they say?
Schools are in no way shape or form forcing men out of them. Since ever boys are more likely to drop out of school. It's not something recent. Girls respond better to tests as a way of evaluation and have a easier time staying focused during lectures. Boys respond better to practical ways of teaching. But you need to have tests and you need to teach theory.

Everyone looks better when they are rich, even women. Let's not fool ourselves, if a man knows a girl is super rich it will be a plus.

In yonger ages sure.

I know very well women as as shallow as men are. Don't get me wrong. What I am defending is that they are not more than us.

I don't need to be afraid of it I am married. Do you know that there is a study, a published one that supposedly proves masks don't do anything for medical professionals? There is. And yet they never stopped using them did they? There are many studies out there that for one reason or the other don't really have validation.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Women absolutely had a choice. Women could and did work, the goal for women however was to not work. We have documents dating back to the thirteen hundreds listing off female master blacksmiths. It was simply that most women then and now want a man who makes more money then them (again, if they marry a man who makes less then them they are unhappy (again, based upon studies and surveys done).

As for schools, yes they are, the drop out rates for boys is four times higher and that was not something that had always been the case. Boys score higher on tests and yet get lower grades. Discrimination against boys in schools is rampant and even admitted to. We know that its been designed to appeal to how girls learn instead of boys and as a result boys are being pushed out.
mitili.mit.edu/.../...on-Paper-2016.07-Terrier.pdf
https://englishbook.org/pdf/the-war-against-boys

[hellionthesagereborn]

As for women having to stay in marriages, that is catagorically false based upon all available data. Not only do women not have to stay in marriages, they are the most likely to end marriages as 70% of all divorces are filed by women, the most cited reason being no fault. In addition one of the reasons why this is the case is because 80% of all alimony and child support (which is generally the same thing as alimony as its artificially inflated in the cases alimony is not given to account for that) is paid out by men to women. So women are not bound to a husband but ironically a husband is bound to his wife as if she leaves she takes most of his money and his children (women get equal or better custody 91% of the time vs. a mans 44% of the time, equal custody being about 35% of the time). If he leaves her he loses most of his money and his children. So in reality men are the ones forced to stay in the relationship while women are not because the marriage contract only benefits her not him (again, this is based upon the statistical and legal data.).

Actually the wealth and education of a woman has no impact on her appearence for men, the reverse is not true however. Males tend to value maternal qualities of kindness and attentiveness while women prefer bravery (protective) and wealth acquisition (because child rearing is expensive to a woman so having that security is a biologically built in desire for them just as hip to waist ratio is for men because it means increased survival rate for child birth).

[hellionthesagereborn]

I don't think women are more shallow then us from a biological standpoint, I think they are more shallow then us culturally. When you remove any and all social checks on a group, that group because toxic. Women cannot be questioned in our society, doing so is "sexist". So a woman can complain that a man won't date her because of weight, so much so that we have a "body positivity" movement specificaly designed to pressure society into accepting obese women as attractive, YET women consistently refuse to date obese men, short men etc. and their is no body positive movement for them.

We place standards on men with very good reason, we need the structure for society to function, however we place none on women and as a result they have become so pampered that they no longer have realisitic expectations (in one survey done while men found women to be on average, average in looks, they found that women found 80% of men BELOW average in looks. This is a statistical impossiblity by definition, that did not stop women from believing it however).

This is why women divorce men out of bordem, and men don't, why women have long lists of traits for what men have to be and men don't, its because we have standards on men and none on women. Its not biology, its culture and we are seeing the decay of gender relations, marriages (high divorce rates and now low marriage rates), and general discontent (both men and women are less happy now then in the fifties but women even more so. This is the first time in history we have seen women reporting being less happy then men.) as a result of removing these standards.

[hellionthesagereborn]

The reason they where removed is because feminism wrongly claimed women where oppressed, completely ignoring that the rules where put in place for women by women and enforced by women. they ignored that while women historically CHOSE to give up certain rights, they in turn gained significant benefits. So they claimed women couldn't work but that was incorrect women worked all the time. What happened was that women who where married didn't work because their husband was legally responsible for taking care of them and if he failed in doing so she could divorce him and get alimony as a result because he was not capable of taking care of her financially. This was the trade off, she couldn't own land because he had to pay the taxes on it and he had to maintain it ergo he had the rights to decide what to do with it and she didn't. It wasn't oppression, it was a deal. Feminists said this was oppression when it wasn't and removed all of those trade offs so now all the responsibility falls on the man and none of it the woman and now women have become more entitled as a result because society is catering to them instead of treating them as equivalent to men (either we are equal or we trade off responsibilities for securities in equal measures. Women desire security more then freedom however due to biology so they consistently choose greater security resulting in this inbalance).

As for the mask study, that is incorrect. The multiple mask studies state that masks are not useful for VIRAL spread which is different then not useful (their are many other pathogens they protect against), and that is because virus's are significantly smaller then bacteria, protozoa and other multicellular pathogens and as such slip through the fibers of the masks. These studies are validated as where the ones I listed which have multiple backing studies.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Basically to paraphrase, its not innate shallowness that is the issue, its that women have become spoiled because no one has told them no in nearly 100 years, men will date them even if they are not good people, if they destroy the family they will not only not be punished they will in fact be rewarded for it. If they do wrong, the entire society will make excuses for them. The entire society is catering to them. If we spoiled men like this, removed any consequences for their actions do you think that men would become better or worse? The answer is worse, men would cheat, steal, abandon their families, father multiple children and then abandon them etc. at record numbers and act like entitled assholes while they did so because their would never be a consequence for them doing so. This is precisely what we see happening with women and as a result their standards and expectations are higher because their entire life they have been told they are better then every one else and they can do no wrong but others can wrong them.

[Asker]

No they couldn't. They don't even open a bank account alone before 1970. Working any job they wanted simply wasn't allowed to them.

Grades are not all about testing their are also given based on student behavior. Boys tend to disturb class more than girls.
I agree that the model of teaching we gave today favors girls, but what other method is there. Boys don't like to be sitting down listening, they prefer practice to theory. Sadly it's needed.

[Asker]

Why do you think they divorce much more since they have their own independence? Divorce skyrocketed at the same rate as women had the option to be independent. Must be because they were very happy in their marriages.

In 51% of the times both the mother and the father agree the child should be with the mother. Men get custody around 23%. Women 77%, 51% of which the father just gave them. So fathers only fight and lose custody 26% of the time.

Today that is not true. Jobless women are less desirable. To the average men a woman with no job is a financial burden. Today's economy doesn't let just one to have a regular income job if you want to get your children a good life.

That "women can't be questioned" is bs. Of course they can and they are. Don't let what you see in social media fool you to what happens in the real world.

Number one cause for divorce is "lack of commitment". You call it getting bored, they call it lack of effort, care and time their partner puts in the relationship.

[Asker]

They didn't chose to ignore certain rights. It all began in the bronze age where humans actively engaged in war with each other. Men were more fit for war so they were feed most of the protein which cause them to grow even more than women. Women we set as caregivers because of war, not biology. We evolved from that point always keeping women on that spot. They never had a choice.

Men were shamed if their wife's worked. I kid you not in my country there were fliers, this is factual, that said "a working wife is a cheating wife". It was not socially acceptable for them to work. They could do some low paying jobs, but it was rare that they were hired. And certain jobs were simply off limits salve very few exceptions.

The mask study was an example. And wrong the study I saw stated that they were useless. Still they are used by the medical community. You saw another that says they don't work for viral spread and yet most doctors keep pushing their use by the population.

Both gender are equally shallow. I agree. But to say women are more or that the super high standards we are told they stereotypically have are true is ridiculous.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Okay, are you reading what I have written? Women could and did have bank accounts and could and did take out loans. The only group that could not do that is MARRIED women because by law, a man could be arrested for his wifes debt as he was legally responsible for her. So again, I have addressed this and what you have stated is inaccurate.

As for divorce, agian, this was addressed. They divorced because by law they get to have all the advantages, they gain everything and lose nothing. If we did not have alimoney and if child support/child custody did not overwhelmingly favor women, we would not have sky rocketing divorces initiated by women. Again, I have already addressed all of these points if you just go back and read my comments.

As for your last comment that is factually incorrect. Men are geneticly bigger and stronger then women, that is why they where the ones who lost their rights and where forced to go to war against their will because they where seen as both stronger because they where, and also disposable because they where (one man can impregnate many women, one woman can only get pregnant once every nine months and then have years of dependency for that child. If you wish to ensure the surivival of the species, the one to sacrifice is men not women, and that is precisely what we have done for all of human history no exceptions.).

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes, men where shamed if their wife worked. . . by women who prefered to stay at home (which again, all scientific and sociological evidence shows to be the case). At no point have I said anything that is not backed by scientific fact. Men where also shamed if they could not provide for their wife. We use shaming for social pressure to push people to conform to behaviors that are seen to be beneficial. This is why women shamed men who where cowards or who didn't join war efforts and why society shamed men who where beaten by their wives (riding the donkey backwards as it was called), why men who beat their wives where publically flogged (last public flogging that occured in the US was in 1953 if memory serves and it was for domestic violence), why men who are lazy are shamed etc. etc.

[Asker]

Yes they could if they had a men with them. Brother, husband or other. Alone they couldn't up to 1970 and something. This is factual.

Since majority of father's doesn't even fight for the child who do you expect to receive child support?
The reason divorce skyrocketed is not because suddenly they got only advantages out of it. It was because they could leave shitty marriages and not end up on the streets.
I read your comments doesn't mean they are accurate.

Yes they we are stronger and the need to go to war caused most of the meat to go to us and made the difference even bigger.
Women also lost their place on society due to this. They were considered lesser. And all fine as long as we talk about war, but over time humans transported that ideology to society and households too. Which is fucked up. We are superior to go to war due to being physically stronger. Doesn't mean we are better at literally anything else than they are.

By women? No, BY THE STATE! Those flier were put out at a time my country was under a dictatorship and literally nothing came out with the state approval. Those flier were put out by the regime not women.

Even today, more men shame other men for showing their emotions and be stay at home father's than women do.

Beating your wife was actually considered a constitutional right in the US until feminism showed up. But not just there, in Europe too beating your wife was normal.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Everything you have stated is not just catagorically false, but provably so. I have presented you actual scientific evidence and you refuse to accept it, I could spend hours more going through the data and showing you historical documents, showing you more scientific papers, but you will never listen because its easier for you to believe in a fairy tale then the much less pretty truth. The fact is men and women are both shallow, this is a biological fact which again, I have proven and provided evidence for (you have argued against it but provided nothing to refute my evidence), but culturally because of people like yourself, women are not called out when they are shallow which has allowed them to get ever more shallow and absurd with their expectations because people like yourself keep putting them on a pedestal and claiming (whether you admit it or not) that they can do no wrong and that they are perfect princesses who's bowl movements smell of roses. This is simply not reality.

[Xoxocutekitty]

Yes and no. I do think there is truth to every stereotype, and I think in instances of dating, both genders are guilty of going through a playing the field/ loving the chase phase.

When a woman is young and hot, she may demand superficial things like 6' tall or defined abs same way a guy might demand she have a certain color hair/complexion or visually significant waist to hip ratio 'to be attracted.'

As we get older and realize that people are overrated we become more selective with deeper things like personality, values, humor, and lifestyle habits.

A D is a d and a V is a v. There's a happy medium where you don't feel like you've 'settled for an uggo' and but have also come to terms with realizing that your partner isn't the hottest you could have gotten if you had stayed single for the next 1, 5, or 10 years.

There comes a point when superficial things like looks or how much they make aren't more important than coming home to hugs, a hot meal, and laughter on a rainy day. There's no magical age where that happens.

[backblueblack22]

Well some guys do go full incel. However just look at what kinds of topics women post on GAG vs. men. Usually it’s from women who are already in relationships vs. single/frustrated guys.

Also I’ve seen women post some heinously selfish crap on here. I just saw a girl post (like today) that short guys should be “bred out” of society. I’ve seen several women admit to cheating on here and have no shame/remorse about it. But instead they were looking for affirmation. I’ve seen several women also admit how they like exploiting “nice guys”. Of course they don’t word like that but I’m not stupid about why they are doing.

Also many women snicker and balk at male complaints about dating. Many of them assume dating is the same way for guys as is it for them. It’s sure as hell not. Especially in modern society men face very unique challenges. However I have met a minority of women on here who “get it” and I’m thankful for them.

Anyway being a bitch never helps. But let’s be honest. Women can openly complain about men, show their emotions and not lose face. Men don’t have this luxury. At least not to the extent women do. But that male frustration needs to be released somewhere. It might be released positively through exercise, hobbies and work. But it also is released self destructively via porn, alcohol, drugs, taking risks, gambling, video game obsession, etc.

Anyway there is a reason why you see so many jaded guys venting anonymously on GAG. We do write more and engage more.

[garykingg]

Some men out there actually really want to be someone in the future, and leave behind a legacy of their own.

Some men out there believe that if they aren't their best self they won't actually get a girl. It sounds stupid but guys like me believe that if we don't become our very best selves we shouldn't get the woman cause they can always find a better person out there.

So we continue to stay single by choice until we archive our goals and they we would start to date, in your mid 20s once we become successful and stable.

Some men do take relationships seriously not just hookups. We exist but we aren't available for dating at the moment.

Most of the time we aren't blessed with good looks or tall (5'10), so we need to be successful in order to be worthy. That's just how it is.

[SupremeWarlord]

I'm giving up on this "women high expectations blablabla" type of bullshit, just focus on being the best version of yourself possible, don't blame women if they think you are unworthy of them.

And don't fool yourself, average secure job is better than being poor of course, but rich guys are still ahead of you, there's no point in trying to deny this. But of course, once you're settles on a relationship, your girlfriend won't leave you for the first guy "richer", "taller", "whatever" than you that appears in front of her, but if she actually does that I agree, it hurts A LOT, it proves she was a shallow bitch, but other than that you should just strive to be the absolute best on your own terms.

[witness1]

As a person, who takes regular polls on the subject with around 60 to 90 people per year, for 10 years now, I can quite safely state the following:
Men are attractive if they have a good sense of humor (most important), are active (sports etc), aren't stupid (intelligence, not education per se) and are taller...
Everything else is highly individual taste.
So I'd say sharing the same humor is the best foundation for anything.
But money always helps, because it promises a carefree future.

[PinkMichae]

I don't think it's made up in their heads because women with those high expectations do exist. But where they go wrong is thinking that's how the majority or all women think.

You are right that most women are just fine with what you said in place of the stereotypes that men think.

[Chthou95]

Majority do think that way. It's not a fairytale

[PinkMichae]

Obviously I said it wasn't in your guys head which means I don't believe it's a fairytale. But I disagree it's the majority of women that expect all those things. If it were all the women in my life and I would have pursued and ended up with rich tall men. In most cases they built a life together to get to a better financial status.

One of my friends and I ended up with guys our same height and definitely not rich. Actually we struggle financially. There was only one woman in my life that pursued a man because of the things he could give her. He was rich. What she learned is when you get with a man with expectations of things like money, you can bet he's going to have expectations of you too. And he did. She learned her lesson and works her butt off along with her now postman husband to have the nice things they have.

And if women you've dated has been that way your picker is off. Or your dating women part of the same superficial circle.

[Chthou95]

Doesn't matter where they came from, most women think the same to me

[PinkMichae]

That may be your downfall when it comes to love.

[Chthou95]

Its what i see. a lot of other men see this too. Women's standards are rising and more and more men will be single for a long time

[Sue_Free]

No. There are definitely women whose expectations are high, too high to even realize it. And they would put themselves on a pedestal saying they're not high maintenance, but their criteria must-have list has over 30 things mentioned.
But there are also plenty of us who don't have these expectations. For example, I don't need you to be taller than me.

[Chthou95]

You're rare. As a matter of fact, you're very rare

[Sue_Free]

@Chthou95 Maybe I'm just weird

[Chthou95]

Yeah probably. That's out of the norm

[Sue_Free]

@Chthou95 I don't understand why a guy has to be taller. It's not like we're going to get attacked by a wild animal anymore

[Chthou95]

Ask other women that

[Sue_Free]

@Chthou95 I saw one mention that it makes her feel less feminine. It sucks, the mindset can be changed, but not the height

[SupremeWarlord]

Just asking, do you really find height completely irrelevant? Or do you prefer short men?

Because when a woman is dating a shorter man it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care about height, it might mean that her short boyfriend had other qualities that outweighed his shortness. That's why I don't lose my head over my height, it's not the only thing that makes up my person.

[Sue_Free]

@SupremeWarlord I prefer shorter. They're easier to hug, I can wrap my arms around him easily. And I love having his head rest on my chest

[SupremeWarlord]

@sue_free Interesting, but there you go, tall guys will think you're being unfair to them based on this, since you have a preference based on height.
You're an unusual case indeed.

[Sue_Free]

@SupremeWarlord "low" expectations hihi wink wink nudge nudge -Sorry.

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

I make 10k more than my regional median income, I’m built really damn well but I don’t cut, I know how to both make and fix things, I’ve got disposable income and multiple vehicles, I have hobbies and interests. You know what I don’t get? The attention of attractive single women. Why? Because women are completely unrealistic in their standards and what they can get for more than one night. I’ve been back burnered by a few chicks but I’m the past 3 years I’ve had dates with 5 chicks and sex with one a few times.

The issue isn’t men and women will figure it out in a big way in the next couple years.

[Asker]

I have an idea of why you don't get attention of attractive single women and that is not why.

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

Say what you want but back in the day I went out with about 200 women in the course of 2 years, I’ve been engaged twice, and both of my serious girlfriends have been highly desirable women.

[Asker]

Do you think that mabybe your personality is the issue?

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

Considering I've been engaged to two models and have numerous attached women flirt with me on a regular basis, probably not. If I made a real effort to meet women where they're known to go when they're looking I'd be able to pick up a couple different women a week or month, but I don't meet women at bars, clubs, or music venues because I'm not looking for a quick fuck. I'm looking for a relationship.

I'm sure that my personality is unattractive to some or many, but those aren't the women I'd be seen in the same room with let alone the same bed with; I'm sure many women find your personality repulsive as well. This is just how things are, most women aren't attracted to most men and they'll find any excuse to justify it.

[Asker]

Who you date and who you fuck are not the same people. That is valid for guys and girls.
Maybe you are the type they fuck, not the type they date.

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

Believe it or not, I've considered that. I've actually spent hours wondering if getting what I can get is worth giving up the chase of what I want. I've come to the conclusion that when I find the right woman it will all be worth it, if I don't, something great will still come from my efforst.

[Asker]

Deeply that's what we all wish for.

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

I'd be willing to bet there are men that genuinely don't want to get married, but that's definitely not the norm. But I think most men just want a reasonable woman to be with for a long time.

[Ninjazzed]

No woman is ever going to marry this dickweed because most women have zero respect for ego-filled misogynists.

Ask yourself why a woman would choose YOU.

I have a feeling you’re shooting way out of your ballpark, most men using dating apps do. I highly doubt you get any luck in “clubs” or “bars” so to speak because that’s not exactly an ideal place to meet marriage material.

You don’t have to go for the undesirable but don’t expect every model looking woman to want to commit to you just because you two had sex, especially if you aren’t a model looking man.

Have you ever considered that maybe those high value women are out there and they're chasing HVM?

You forget that women are people too, not a list of bullet points to assuage your ego.

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

@Ninjazzed you sound upset. Is it that time of the month for you?

[nella965]

You’re the only honest guy on here.
I would totally have to agree

by the way you’re gonna piss off a lot of insecure misogynists on here. Get ready for a beating

[Asker]

Trust me they were the ones who got a beating.

[Hallo626262]

Non of this makes any sense. They wouldn't even exist if that shit was true. Women obviously have way higher expectations. Are you retardet?

[nella965]

@Hallo626262 you don't even have a dating life, how do you know that?

[Hallo626262]

Ok Cutie

[Tiptoetamm]

I think so because I'm not afraid to approach a man and i have friends who do the same. I really just want a guy to say hi to me. You want some coffee or something and start from there build organically. My best relationship was my best friend we were friends for months before we had sex of course it was there, but one day he approached me and wanted to make it official. He did it in the sweetest way to do i totally fell for it haha. We were together 3 years

[Anonymous]

No. They're very much informed by what they've experienced from women. I think across the population there are guys whos understanding will undershoot or overshoot women's expectations, but they are real -- not to mention that it's not a single expectation either, it's the mean of a varying set of expectations and so inevitably different women are going to vary from the trend as well. But the problem is the assumption on the part of women that it's reasonable to be mad when guys don't meet expectations at the outset. The chances are that men are going to get it wrong, so it's unreasonable to get mad about it. Then considering women don't have similar expectations placed on them by men, that's what makes it seem especially high and unreasonable.

[Asker]

Get mad about it? Did you ever experienced that?

[Opinion Owner]

Yes.
And there's no shortage of it on here or the rest of the internet.

[Riley000]

I blame all the romantic novels and romcom movies and dramas.

It's cute and funny but it's secretly telling you how a romantic date or relationship should be, without you knowing... if you want a relationship to work, both parties must put effort.

I try to avoid those genre... Prefer watching horror movies.

[zagor]

I don't think it's so much the romantic stuff as the fact that, with TV and the internet, you can see very attractive, very appealing people in your living room all the time. In the old days, ie pre-WW I, most people only saw the people who lived in their vicinity.

[hahahmm]

No... It's due to a lot of simp males giving too much attention to women who haven't earned that so then the woman thinks she's worth way more than she is. She believes that if she gives zero he needs to give her the moon.

But there's also lots of men who put in zero into being a good man but expect a quality woman to magically appear in his lap.

[Asker]

That doesn't represent most women. Some for sure.

[hahahmm]

Not sure it matters... if every time you walk out of your door someone tries to mug you then you'd be wise to take defensive steps. Likewise a lot of guys have taken defensive steps against badly behaved women. Maybe the guy lives in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe western society is the wrong neighborhood.

[Asker]

One just needs to keep his head over his shoulders and look for red flags. That way we filter the bad ones and catch the others.

[djmzes]

Simple

It is caused by both gender and we only talk and never acted and each knows in which category we falls.

It takes courage and wisdom to do what is right in relationship as most of the time, it means to be honest, humble and drop ego which most of us cannot do it.

[Mofunfour20]

No, it comes down to female biological nature. Men are stronger so they seek a good fighter for protection. Men can work longer hours because were stronger, 35% more muscle mass than women. Theyre expectations are high because theyre all insecure. Its a man's world because success is predicated on hard work, and responsibility. A woman wouldn't fully understand what the world expects from men because they are not men

[Asker]

Female nature? Dude in 1/3 of today's relationships women make more than their partners. That "they need to be protected" crap got old by at least a generation now. They care more about what you bring to the table as a person, because the rest they got.

[Mofunfour20]

Women like that dont count to me because most women that make more than men still expect men to be a good provider. They're basically taking the financial position of a man. What man in his right mind would be attracted to a LDR with a woman that looks down on him?

[Asker]

A good provider as in "has a job". Having a job is the bare minimum.
Making more money isn't a men thing and women don't look down on men who make less than they do.

[LiveOne]

"They're basically taking the financial position of a man."

This is EXACTLY why a lot of women are hesitant to date a man who earns less than them, and it's odd how you didn't even realize it. Men who think that women who earn more than them are "looking down on them" and feel emasculated by it is why a lot of them want a man who earns more, so that he DOESN'T feel that way without risking her own income. They do this so they don't have to deal with an insecure man who will resent them for earning more.

[hahahmm]

Science has shown that women don't handle stress anywhere near as well as a man. That is also a key difference. Modern women try to cope with the stress by drinking too much, pills, therapists and such. As far as asker's comment: "that "they need to be protected" crap got old by at least a generation now. " Oh, tell that to all of the woman who get groped/raped because they were walking down the street by themselves and thus easy prey. Yes, women can kid themselves into thinking they're as strong as men & movies today sell that lie too but the reality is that any male over age 11 can beat down 99.9% of women with 1 hand.

[Asker]

@hahahmm I used to think like you until a guy here told me to find a single study that proved that women are more emotional than men. I did a google search convinced it would take 5 min to find. Actually couldn't find a single one.

If we are going to argue that women need protection because they get groped on the street, most victims of violent crimes are men. So I guess we are the ones who need protection on your logic.
Sure men are stronger, but I am a muay thai fighter and I can tell you that I have seen experienced girls beat the living shit of amateur guys that arrive at the gym convinced they will beat them just because they are girls.
Yes we are stronger, but it's not wise to underestimate them.

[Asker]

@hahahmm But speaking of science have you seen the update?

[hahahmm]

@asker. I didn't say "emotional"... I said they don't handle stress as well. I doubt anybody is going to do a study on if women are more emotional because 1.) it's very subjective... unlike stress level. 2.) it's a politically charged question. Feminists have been raging for decades about how women used to always be called "emotional" to dismiss them. Anyhow just google and you'll find lots on women's stress... like "Compared to men, women tend to experience more fluctuations in their hormones than men do, which can make women far more vulnerable to stress."

[Asker]

@hahahmm actually it is connected. The way those studies were conducted was exactly by measuring brain activity when put under certain stimulus. So it's not subjective. Among other things they looked for the activation of areas in the brain related to, you guess it, stress.

What they notice is that while male and female brain they had the same response rate the areas that reacted were different.
In other words, men succumb to anger much easier and women to anxiety.

[VanillaSalt]

I think yes women’s expectations are too high. I’m short and somewhat fat but otherwise healthy and strong. I work hard and make good money. But none of that matters because I’m limited to online dating. In online dating all that matters is the picture.