No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

redeyemindtricks

#battleroyale #TeamRJ

In the world of the internet, certain things are just inevitable. Like the fact that, if an argument drags on long enough, someone will eventually be compared to Hitler and/or the Nazis.

And... the topic of today's breakfast club:

In any discussion of "hot" women... Someone's eventually going to trot out fashion models as an example.

Specifically, editorial models. The kind you see in fashion layouts, in glossy magazines and the like.

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

...Or commercial models, like the Victoria's Secret angels. (Most commercial models come from editorial careers anyway, so this is really "Play it again, Sam." Which no one ever actually said in a movie, by the way.)

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

At this point -- since the internet is, after all, the internet -- the discussion usually devolves into a cloud of bitter obscenities gargled from froth-corrupted lungs.

"Men are such filthy fucking pigs!"

"They're promoting anorexia!"

"They want us to feel bad about ourselves!"

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

Pull up a chair.

__

Ridiculously Wrong Piece of Crazy Insanity #1: "(Straight) MEN like fashion models."

I hear this WAY too often.

The idea that the waif physique is something perpetrated upon women by a global conspiracy of straight men, for their own gleeful masturbatory satisfaction (and perhaps to keep a lid on food prices, too... WHO KNOWS D00D).

I mean...

Ahahahaha hahahah hahahahha hahahah haha hahahaahahaahah hahah.

Hahah hahah ahahha aha ha.

Ha.

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

Not that this DESERVES a serious response -- if you've gotten to know more than 0 straight men in your entire life, you'll already realize how insane it is -- but, since I'm in a giving mood today, here are two actual pieces of scholarly research, to back up what everyone already knows anyway:

1)

Women's own ideal (for the female body) is MUCH thinner than what men find ideally attractive.

In fact, even when specifically trying to guess what men prefer, women STILL choose way too thin.

(Men, on the other hand, are able to guess women's preferences accurately... for female bodies, at least. Men have a shitty grip on what WE like... but that, friends, is another discussion for another day.)

2)

The only men who even somewhat prefer waif-like women, on average, are men who don't think they ever want kids. (Guess they're really not bullshittin', if that extends all the way to their subconscious mate preferences... holy shit.)

...And even THOSE men still prefer female bodies that are curvier and more "fertile"-looking than those of fashion models.

The difference is captured pretty well by this graphic:

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

...Except it's almost certainly more pronounced than that. Remember, those items were chosen from CELEBRITY "multiple choices" -- so, there probably weren't too many women of more normal proportions from which to pick.

But, regardless, we can safely put to rest this particular ridiculously wrong piece of crazy insanity.

In fact...

Straight men find the fashion-model physique so sexually UNappealing that they don't even look at THOSE parts of the models.

I shit you not.

"Eye-tracking heatmaps" show where viewers look, from blue (least time) to red (most time). This is a heatmap for STRAIGHT MEN looking at a Dolce & Gabbana fragrance ad:

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

Straight men. NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THE TITS.

Oh wait. It gets better:

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

Yep... men... NOT EVEN LOOKING AT A BARE ASS.

...When it's on a girl who ain't got ass.

(Side point: We look at the shoes. Men don't. Lol ahahahahha)

Okay, I think we've settled this one.

Anyone who thinks that fashion models are supposed to be "sexy" -- to men -- has officially lost their grip on reality.

If they ever had one.

__

So... alright, we know fashion models are chosen to appeal to women.

Duh.

Now... let's talk about THAT.

Because... um... yeah. There is, to put it lightly, a great deal of misunderstanding on that side of the aisle, too.

Ridiculously Wrong Piece of Crazy Insanity #2: "Fashion models are chosen to make normal women feel shitty about themselves."

Uh...

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

First... Like what the fuck? Let's just stop and think about that, for a sec.

Fashion houses are BUSINESSES. They SELL THINGS. They sell really, really expensive -- and completely frivolous -- goods.

If you want to sell someone really, really expensive things that she doesn't actually need?

Uh...

You don't do that by making her feel shitty and fat.

High-end couture marketing gives women something to ASPIRE to.

"Aspirational" is a buzzword that you'll see in the prospectus of just about every single high-end brand in the world, like, say, Hermès.

Annnnnnd THIS... this... is the reason why editorial models look like editorial models, kiddies. It's so fucking simple that it hurts.

Wait for it...

Women are physically inspired -- generally speaking -- by other women their size or slimmer.

Like... duhhhh.

This is another one of those things that no one should ever NEED to back up with research. But, like I said... Giving mood, today.

Peep it: Women's own BMI's, versus the BMI's they found most attractive (or "aspirational", in marketing terms).

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

That pink line is where the x- and y-values are equal. (Nice tricky axis scales there, guys!)

Yep, there are exactly TWO data points there for women who picked "preferred" or "inspirational" bodies bigger than their own.
And both of those women were quite slim -- BMI's between 17 and 18 -- and, in both cases, the difference was so tiny as to be pretty much negligible. (Those two data points are only a few pounds off of the pink line. That's a few glasses of water, or a nice bowl of soup, away from having the same BMI.)

And there you go. That's why fashion models look like ... well, fashion models.

The ideal fashion model is "inspiring" or "aspirational" to as many female consumers as possible.

In other words... She's slimmer than EVERYONE, but without actually looking like she's sick or diseased.

So, she looks like...
...A fashion model.

It ain't complicated.

Businesses want to sell things... so they want to make people want to buy things. As many people as possible. I KNOW RIGHT? Like omfg that's cray.

__

Now, let's take the cold, hard bayonet of reality and skewer some reasonable ideas.

__

Reasonable Idea that Turns Out to be Totally Wrong #1: "Overweight models make overweight women feel better about themselves."

I mean... sure, this sounds reasonable. The usual line of reasoning: Thinner models make bigger women feel shitty about themselves -- so, naturally, bigger models should help them feel less shitty about themselves.

Totes plausible.

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

...But totes wrong.

Sry try again.

In actual reality, thinner models make bigger women feel shitty about themselves... and bigger models ALSO make bigger women feel shitty about themselves.

Basically, thinner models make bigger women feel inadequate by comparison... but bigger models remind bigger women that they're ... well ... bigger.

Ironically, thinner women get a confidence boost from BOTH types of models -- from the thinner models because they're "aspirational", and from the bigger models because they feel superior by comparison.

Hey, don't yell at me! Go yell at the authors of the study if you need to yell at someone.

Oh, and, go tap Aerie and Dove on the shoulder, and kindly explain why their ad campaigns didn't deliver the expected results.

__

Reasonable Idea that Turns Out to be Totally Wrong #2: "Fashion photos emphasize fashion models."

...The fuck?

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

How could THAT possibly be wrong?

Aren't we talking about ... pictures of fashion models, here?

Well...

Some editorial layouts and ads for ya.

Have a look.

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

If you've looked at fashion photography much -- and paid attention much -- you'll realize how LITTLE attention is actually given to the models, comparatively speaking.

You know why? I'll tell you why.

When models are too "in-your-face", female consumers react with hostility and defensiveness -- and form negative associations with the brand.

When models are photographed more peripherally -- and/or as secondary to the activity in which they are engaging -- those same consumers find the advertising "aspirational", and form favorable impressions of the brand.

Fashion houses have known this for decades and decades, but I can't find any research study older than this one. I have the full article -- if you want it, just ask.

Oh -- This ESPECIALLY goes for brands that have the potential to be branded with that scarlet "S" for "slutty".

Reasonable Idea that Turns Out to be Totally Wrong #3: "Women think fashion models are sexy... where sexy means, like, sexy."

Again...

Noooope.

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

After reading the above, you should already understand this one.

Sex appeal is forward, direct, and INTIMIDATING -- and puts most women on the defensive. This is the same unfortunate instinct that leads all too many women to yell "slutttttt!" at any beautiful woman who might dare to wear "something that reminds ya she's a woman" (as my husband would say).

SMART branding, in fact, involves models who DON'T flip the sex-appeal switch in women's minds.

Victoria's Secret is currently the most popular clothing brand in the world... in no small part because NONE of its advertising could EVER be accused of being "forward" or "slutty".

No Victoria's Secret ad will EVER put the model's sexuality front and center. The brand's appeal is built on "playful!" "carefree!" "mb I'll adult... someday!"

(This isn't hate by the way -- I'm a card-carrying Angel VIP, so, I got got.)

This is a typical VS ad:

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves

Anything and everything BUT sex, happening there. This picture makes me think "sleepover", which is fun, but also the least sexy thing ever.

If I were still in the dating market, that picture would also make me think... "These women are not threats."

NOT THREATS.

Aspirational.

And ... there ya go.

You now understand fashion marketing.

Class dismissed.

No, Models Aren't Supposed to be "Sexy"... And, No, the Fashion Industry Isn't Conspiring to Make Us Starve Ourselves
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Most Helpful Girl

  • BuchitaBuchys
    Honestly, I pretty much always knew those models aren't "sexy" to men. Maybe it's because I'm from the ghetto, but the men always openly stated how they like cornbread and tortilla fed thick women. The big butt trend that is barely hitting white/maintstream America, was pretty much always there in Latino cultures. And black culture as well.
    Victoria Secret models don't make me feel terrible about my body. Women like Ashley Graham, Kim Karshadian, Beyonce, Katy Perry, and Sofia Vergara did. Dont get me wrong, I love their bodies, but I just hated that I didn't look like that. I hated that I didn't have "Latina curves/hips". And yes, I am well aware that not all those women are Latina.

    And the models in Latino anything are overly curvy and sexual. Hell, even our weather girls look ridiculously bootylicious, and growing up it did kinda suck to wait for your "Latina curves" but never get them.

    Now, I don't really care about it as much. You only get one body, you can hate it or change it.

    Also, were the Aerie and Dove campaigns not as successful as stick thin photoshop?
    Like 1 Person
    Is this still revelant?
    • Looool girlfriend... believe me, if I'd walked around for a few hours of any day after age 12 with a parrot on my shoulder, I'd be hearing it squawk "Quién te robó las nalgas?" for the rest of my life.

      Srsly... I was about 120lbs in high school, and I'm 6'2". And I swear to you, every other girl at my school (a school with 6,000 students) was a video vixen.

      I *still* get a damn lump in my throat when I see women with that incredible small waist and that solid shelf of a butt that hardly even MOVES when they walk. It's like I'm staring pure fertility in the face, and losing -- badddd. (I have a bit of a history there, too -- could tell you on pm if you're interested)

      But... srsly... 6'2" 120lbs, girl. I at least knew better than to torture myself, and I could at least play to my strengths. I'm not gna play a game I obviously can't win.

    • Damn you're tall lol

    • That I am. (:

    • Show All

Most Helpful Guy

  • meatballs21
    Excellent. This message needs to be written in the sky in giant letters. Models are not meant to be sexy. They are meant to be a living clothes hanger to display new fashions on a runway.

    If you want to see the sort of women with bodies men find sex, look at porn stars. Their bodies have to look good and be desirable. Some of them are tiny and petite, with small breasts. Others are voluptuous and have large breasts and booty. Some are obese, some are less than 100lbs. Each man has his own particular dream and you can bet there's porn stars who fit that ideal.

    Oh, and there are former models turned porn stars. Zoe Voss is one.
    Like 2 People
    Is this still revelant?
    • "If you want to see the sort of women with bodies men find sex, look at porn stars"
      ^^ I was thinking about talking about that, but the take was pretty long as it is. And, I don't know where one would get reliable data on that. (There's that Billion Wicked Thoughts book that came out recently-ish, but I don't remember how quantitative that book was.)

      Of note, amateur porn -- "warts and all" -- is BY FAR the most popular type of porn. And BBW porn is way way way way way way WAY more popular than porn of super skinny chicks (... so much so, in fact, that the latter is almost vanishingly rare).

    • Here's your reliable data:

      jonmillward.com/.../

      It does unfortunately counter your assertion that BBW porn is so popular. The average porn star is significantly lighter than the average woman. It might be because my own preference is for slim over voluptuous but I find there's no shortage of petite porn stars for me to admire.

      Amateur is good except that the camerawork tends to be awful/shakey/low quality. It's funny how you get the full gamut of body types and body part shapes and something suddenly hits you as WOW.

    • If the "average" is 117lbs, then that's clearly a median, not an arithmetic mean. (If it were an arithmetic mean, there's *no way* there'd be enough double-digit weights to counter the effect of even a relatively small number of BBW's.)

      That makes sense, because there really aren't any "in-betweens". There's pretty much normal porn, and there's plumper/BBW porn. If you're a woman who is a size 10 or 12, there's ironically almost no market for that -- you either need to lose some weight, or else gain a LOT of weight.
      Obvs there will be more "normal" weight porn stars, hence that median value.

      They're comparing to the average for ALL women in the country, which is disingenuous as fuck because that's an average for... like, middle-aged women ahah
      The average US 19-year-old weighs something in the 140-150 lb range, I think.

    • Show All

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What Girls & Guys Said

1928
  • COCOCHANEL
    actually in japan, the vast majority of straight men prefer model thin girls (and openly state this) and this is a trend in society that has been continuing for a few decades. as thin as possible. they do NOT care for ”curves” as in big breast or a round butt/hips. they don't see it as a trade-off. hourglass is not what appeals to them.

    i've talked to doctors and confirmed that it hasn't always been like this in japan. feminine, soft ”mochi-like” body types used to be preferred. not anymore. it's well known and men say it freely to women and women are intense about being thin.

    Like 2 People
    • *Sexually* preferred, though? Or just seen as wifely/matronly?

    • COCOCHANEL

      preferred for both showing off and sexually. i can say with great confidence that japanese males born in japan in the 80's and 90's almost ALL prefer skinny to extremely skinny and they do not mince words. they do not appreciate an hourglass shape. there are a few who do but honestly i've never heard a man say he prefers big tits and you can clearly see it in the women they choose to date and marry.

    • Interesting! Thanks for the perspective.

    • Show All
  • RJGraveyTrain
    This was really informative, and actually a very fun read (and I ain't saying that just because I'm biased). Once you actually started putting it all together and explaining it my mind went to all of the girls I knew who blamed women in magazines for the reasons why they felt bad.

    I now have a response to them all. Lol.
    Like 5 People
    • Thanks! <3

      It was fun to write, too. ("I KNOW RIGHT? Like omfg that's cray." -- I'm betting you lol'd at that one, specifically... I KNOW YOU GURLLLLL)

    • Yes lmao I laughed at all of your little narrative quips and gifs. XD You have me pegged.

    • Polocrew

      Mom please stop embarrassing me fr, wow

    • Show All
  • dangerDoge
    I can get behind this myTake (or at the very least, can't argue against) *almost* entirely. My only big point of contention is the statement regarding straight men (who want kids) not finding the models appealing.

    Speaking personally, I find the "man's ideal woman" version more attractive than the left. However, I still find the left attractive. And, likewise, I'd go to say that the vast majority of editorial models are still considered "attractive" to me. (Note: This is also speaking from a straight dude who likes the idea of having kids, so one cannot disregard my opinion on that note lol.)

    Now, I can't claim to regard myself as a representation for all men, but I think that from what I've seen around, many men would still find the "woman's ideal woman" to be attractive. Maybe not ideal as you first said, but certainly not unappealing like you later said.

    I can accept the base ideas of your myTake, although I believe some parts were exaggerated that hurt your points (i. e. quote in contention: "Straight men find the fashion-model physique so unappealing...") It leads the reader to almost draw conclusions that models (specifically editorial) are unnattractive, in which I would say they quite aren't.
    Like 1 Person
    • "The camera adds ten pounds" is a real thing -- and, when photo shoots are not happening, ultra thin women are not always dressed in stylish clothes that accentuate their silhouettes so well.

      I mean... dude I speak only from experience. My weight never fluctuated by more than 10-15 lbs, but, whenever I was *up* 10-15 lbs, male attention always EXPLODED. From randoms, and also from every boyfriend I ever had, and from my husband, too.
      ... And these were guys who met me at my normal weight, so, it's not like their eyes were broken when we met.

      But, dude... sry if this wasn't clear, but, fashion models -- including me, back in the day -- are still significantly thinner even than the "woman's ideal woman".
      Back then, my weight fluctuated between about 118 and 132 lbs. I'm 6'2". At the bottom, that's a BMI of about 15.
      Find BMI 15 on that scatterplot with the pink line -- it's basically below ALL the data points.

      The left-hand figure ("women's ideal") is more like BMI 17, which is

    • still a little bit higher than even my "fat" weight back then (6'2" 132lbs = BMI 16.9).

      So, basically, you are still in line with all the normal dudes.

      And you're using the word "still" -- "I *STILL* find the [BMI 17] woman attractive" -- implying that you're starting to hit the lower threshold. Would you have liked me at my lowest working weight of 117-118lbs at 6'2"?
      Ehhh...
      If so, nowhere near as much.

    • dangerDoge

      Well, I haven't seen editorial models in real life, so alas, I can only judge by the camera/photos. Even then I can admit I've only been exposed to a limited amount... Commercials, snippets of magazines, random city ads, whatnot. I can only imagine the complimentary clothing and shtuff-- you would know about that much more than I would.
      With that in mind, I've also seen some sickly looking runway sorta girls that were ungodly skinny. Now that looked bad from what I've seen. If the images and weights and situations you are describing are sorta like that, I'm on board with what you are saying and have no more qualms.

      I was more so looking at the picture in the take and thinking to myself "ehh she is still pretty, even if almost too thin." Then I interpreted the myTake as saying "this is base example of an editorial model." Hey, maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying here, and if I did, that's 'totes' on me.

    • Show All
  • EmpatheticLady
    Lmaooooo. Oh, holy hell, I giggled throughout this entire thing. That was the most perfect thing I've read all day... and in a while for that matter. xD Cheers to you, ma'am!

    Also: "At this point -- since the internet is, after all, the internet -- the discussion usually devolves into a cloud of bitter obscenities gargled from froth-corrupted lungs." This sums things up rather well on this site. :P
    Like 1 Person
  • Library
    Their bodies aren't sexy but their faces have to look good. That's usually done by makeup and photoshop. Only supermodels have a pretty face with and without makeup.
    Like 4 People
    • Supermodels have a certain kind of look. Their faces actually tend to have a pretty masculine character in general -- including a REALLY strong jawline.

      Here's Alessandra Ambrosio, for instance... you could cut diamond with that jaw
      media.vogue.com/.../...uty-alessandra-ambrosio.jpg

    • Library

      i remember you told me the same thing about Karlie Kloss. Why do the fashion industries pick supermodels with strong jaw lines?

    • They don't DIRECTLY select for that.

      They select for high, prominent cheekbones. If a woman has the right kind of cheekbones, then she'll have the "cheek hollows" -- which, relatively, will make her jaw look more prominent.
      The effect increases with age, too. Look at Angelina Jolie now:
      i.dailymail.co.uk/.../...lina_Jolie_attends_a_.JPG

      Notice her cheekbones and cheek hollows -- and then just use common sense to think about how that affects the look of her jawline.

  • FallOutBoy2001
    Hmmm, I usually see women in VS ads and think "sex" but I might be the quirky one here, and I still buy their products.

    My only question is how the scientists who did the study of where men looked at models executed that study. I'm not sure how many men would look at a models tits if he knew everyone was going to know about it
    Like 1 Person
    • ahah

      Given how many men *still* can't help themselves, even when they're with women who are honestly pretty rude about the whole "mah ahhhhs are up here" thing... it's definitely significant, even if it's skewed *somewhat* by whatever social inhibition.

    • Yeah. I mean I'll be like "yes, I stare at them too but can you continue making eye contact?"

  • Kevin342000
    Obviously guys don't like women without curves. Women are way too self conscious of their appearance all the time. My girlfriend is guilty of it too. She weighs more than me but is in no way fat. She has put on a couple lbs but I'll just let it go anyway lol
    Like 3 People
    • However the Victoria secrets girls are definitely jerk off worthy😀

    • No reason to hate on those girls. Although my girlfriend would not appreciate my affection for them. She can be a little insecure sometimes and a little overbearing. But I wouldn't ever point out that she's being that way. She's so lucky to have me lol

  • RainbowFanGirl
    I don't care about Victoria secret models much. They inspire me to lose weight actually. I mean my boyfriend likes my body the way it is now, but I don't like it, so I'm striving to change it.

    I'm going to post a take soon on my weight loss results. Almost there.
    LikeDisagree 2 People
    • Congratulations, and good luck <3

      By the way, I like yr stuff here. You always post things that are well thought out -- especially for yr age. Impressive.

      Yr boyfriend will probably still be pretty damn happy with yr body with a little less weight on it.
      When I was younger, I always noticed a LOT less male attention when I was 10-15lbs down than when I was 10-15lbs up (that's the most my weight really ever fluctuated, not counting pregnancy). So, yeah...
      But, I'm talking ≈118-120lbs versus ≈130-132lbs, and I'm 6'2".
      As long as you're still talking within the normal weight range, I can't really imagine a dude caring that much either way.

      How about yr friends? How are they, as far as being supportive?
      I know that some groups of "frenemies" are all passive-aggressive about this shit ("Live a little! Here, eat this cake!"), while other groups of friends -- like mine -- are genuinely supportive of each other. How are yours?

    • Aw, thank you so much :) I like your stuff too you're always real and to the point.

      Yeah, my friends have been supportive of me. It's my dad who sabotages me though. He always buys me donuts and cakes and stuff , probably doesn't want me to get hot or something. I dunno.

    • The guy who downvoted apparently wants to sabotage you too. 😂😂😂

    • Show All
  • Mesonfielde
    I'm legitimately APPALLED and AMAZED by this Take! It might as well be the BEST TAKE I'VE EVER READ!

    This actually explains perfectly well why I NEVER find supermodels attractive, NEVER! I always said they're scrawny and not sexually appealing to me at all - and look, it's because that's what they were inherently designed for!

    Honestly, I feel kinda stupid not having realized that supermodels are not appealing because they are supposed to appeal to women and not men.

    I guess what I'll never understand is why females feel like they should "aspire" to be a thinner body than what men find sexually attractive.

    What's the point of aspiring to have an unattractive body? I don't get it!

    I DON'T GET IT
    Like 5 People
    • Hah, glad I could help. (:

      "I guess what I'll never understand is why females feel like they should 'aspire' to be a thinner body than what men find sexually attractive."

      ^^ To this... You're pretty much implying that we shouldn't aspire to anything other than what *men* want.
      ... Huh?
      I mean... The psychology is obviously complicated, but, it is what it is -- and guys would do well to just *understand* that this stuff is the case.

      Besides, the same is true for guys who work out. Men's ideal for their own muscularity is pretty much *always* more than what the average straight woman actually wants. Sometimes a LOT more.
      ... Am I gna respond to that with "I DON'T GET IT"?
      Well... no.
      Because, frankly, I get the fact that men actually have certain physical goals for (*gasp*) THEIR OWN REASONS, beyond just appealing to women. Shocker, right?

      Same thing in the other direction. I know it's *crazy* that we might actually have physical goals FOR OURSELVES... but, yeah, that's

    • a thing. (:

      Besides, a big part of it is fantasy aspiration. It's not as though 99.5 percent of women are actually willing to undertake the sorts of dietary/workout regimes that will actually *maintain* a lower bodyweight -- especially once they have busy lives and careers and kids and all that.
      In the same way 99.5 percent of guys... mb even 99.9 percent, since it's a lot harder for guys to achieve extreme muscle definition than for us to just get slimmer -- *definitely* won't change their workouts, diets, and entire lifestyles to actually ACCOMPLISH their dream physique.

      So... at the end of the day it's mostly a matter of "my fantasy ≠ your fantasy", in most couples. And the reality just... is what it is.

      The good thing, though, is that MOST people actually LIKE "ordinary reality".
      For instance, amateur porn is easily the most popular category of porn -- and most consumers choose amateur porn with people of similar ages/races/body types as themselves.

    • Oh, and, thanks for the kind words. <3

    • Show All
  • SuitAndTie
    Well thank goodness. Now I don't need to re-evaluate myself when I think A, B or C models aren't attractive to me.

    The girls I consider supermodels in my own world people will laugh at. Some people may even throw up when they see my taste in women.
    Like 2 People
    • I'm so curious now -- you gotta throw at least ONE example at me.

      I promise I won't throw up, I don't model anymore. 😂😂🙃🙃😶💋

    • SuitAndTie

      Haha maybe throwing up is an exaggeration but something like this is very nice to look at:

      www.google.co.uk/search

      www.google.co.uk/search

    • #teamshorthair <3
      (since... like 2 weeks ago)

      Uh what? You just like glasses. LOL

      Ironically, models photographed in glasses are MUCH more likely to have the supermodel-like strong jawline.

      Supermodels tend to have that jawline (as I explained to "library") because it's a function of having high cheekbones and cheek hollows.
      But, in the case of yr glasses-girls, it's the aesthetic -- a square jaw is more parallel to the glasses frame itself, so it creates a more pleasing overall whole.

      In any case, the final result is that you're looking at faces that are a lot closer to "typical supermodel face" than you might think.

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  • Wulfila
    This myTake actually explains quite a lot. I've never been a fan of the wispy supermodel types, and their being marketed towards women makes a lot of sense. I'd take a healthy, curvy girl any day.

    You're so knowledgeable about everything, girl. Will you ever cease to amaze me? ;-)

    Like 1 Person
    • Haha thanks.

      I suppose 90% of seeming "knowledgeable" is just shutting up about the stuff I *don't* know much about. LOL

    • Wulfila

      True that! Stick to the stuff you do know, that way people can't tell what you don't know. Haha.

  • HeWhoPonders
    So a couple things:

    Like how you brought up Godwin's Law. It funny 'n shit.

    It's about time someone mentioned how the men's ideal female body is bigger than women's ideal. I was starting to get a wee bit annoyed.

    (y)
    Like 1 Person
    • Hah... Women who know and understand men, will know well enough. A few of my girlfriends and I have a running joke of, basically, "when my man starts lovin' even more on me... I know it's time to diet again" ahahah 😂😂😂😂

  • adrianalima0
    Nice myTake!
    On the VS model topic. Victoria's Secret models are popular because they have drop dead gorgeous faces. Their stunning faces (even though they are fit) is why people are so drawn to them. There are millions of fit women pretty much none of them are as beautiful as a VS model face-wise an VS *knows* this

    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...75de2dd7e2.jpg
    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...faedaa5aa4.jpg
    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...8e20a0658d.jpg
    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...c1dc418643.jpg
    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...7136bd93db.jpg
    Like 1 Person
  • Sophiaaaaaa
    Victoria's Secret doesn't make me feel bad about myself. If anything it inspires me to be active and healthy and look after myself.
    Like 1 Person
    • yep -- "aspirational".

      I really like their branding! Even though I know it's all cooked up by master marketers ahah.

      They don't have VS in the UK, do they?
      •___•

    • Haha yes, we have VS and pink too. It's cute!

    • yah, I was talking about that with goldie757.

      I'm an idiot, I forgot that the fashion show was in London for 2014. Obviously they had a Bond St store by then, if not others.

  • Gommers
    You understand the literal most successful form of marketing falls under the "sex sells" moniker? That's why there aren't inbread models in paris reping the clothes and it's always the genetically perfect models doing that work.
    LikeDisagree 2 People
    • Attention has always sold more than sex, and always will.

    • Gommers

      You didn't take a marketing class ever did you?

    • Gommers

      Your first picture explains it. Men buy a product endorsed by the women based on the body, women based on the perceived sexual attention they will receive from men.

      Women's buying habits tend to be directly related to the belief that if a woman with a lot of attention has a product they will too have that attention. Both of which are immoral marketing techniques but that's not going to keep anyone out of shops.

      The only reason women are marketed to more these days is due to their increasing positioning in the workplace. Employers are both hiring and being forced to hire more women to "equality" quotas and this increases the buying power of the market demographic while removing a relatively significant amount of the men from the market and decreasing the buying power of men. Things are no longer marketed as gifts to give your girl, it's about giving her what she wants and implied heavily that if you don't she'll find someone that will.

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  • popsickle
    I think fashion has its own intentions, and since its in a position of power... like any other position of power... it has some intended and unintended affects on its audience. I think you have some great points especially how real life average male attraction works differently, but I'm not entirely convinced the insecurities provoked by the fashion industry are unintentional. Why? Because insecurities bring business. Brings attention. Also, sex appeal doesn't have to be as intense as you describe. It can be subtle.
    Like 1 Person
    • "insecurities bring business. Brings attention"

      ^^ "Insecurities" is a loaded word, of course, but... yep. The fashion industry has understood this for FAR longer than scholars have. The psych people are only now beginning to study it.

      Basically... The fashion houses know that their models will impact POSITIVELY on the moods -- and spending decisions -- of women who fit BOTH (1) their size ranges AND (2) their target personality, namely the gregarious see-and-be-seen type.

      You'll see #2 in the studies under the guise of "social comparison orientation". Not an exact match but pretty damn close.
      Check this one out, for starters:
      onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../abstract

      They know what they're doing.

  • brain5000
    This is excellent, thanks! While you say this stuff shouldn't need to be backed up by research, I am not sure men are as generally aware of it.
    Like 1 Person
    • They just might not consciously think about it, yeah... but, if you put the question to most guys, I'm sure they'd realize that *most* women aren't inspired by other women who are bigger than they are. "Thinspo" is a thing for a reason.

      Not the same in every demographic, of course -- where I was growing up (poorer parts of Long Beach) I was INSANELY jealous of the girls who actually had ass and hips. Still am, actually. I swear, every other girl in my middle and high schools was a damn video vixen.
      But... that isn't the demographic of couture ads.

    • brain5000

      Speaking of video vixens, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on a not-terribly-related topic: age disparity in films. A lot of people (women?) complain about the great age difference between many of the leading men and their romantic interests on film. Yet these movies seem most popular with women. Is this really some Hollywood worship of youth by male directors and producers, as we are told, or could there be some insidious marketing reason behind it?

  • Goldie757
    Interesting take. 👏👏👏

    I have never found VS ads sexy, it's always seemed cutesy to me.
    Like 1 Person
    • Right? That's pretty much their entire branding strategy.

      Also, did you know VS *first* got started as a MAN-friendly store?
      I shit you not -- the store first got off the ground as a place where men could feel welcome shopping for "intimates" for their wives. How the times have changed, lol.

    • Goldie757

      Really 😂
      VS is pretty new over here.

    • Ya, seriously.

      Right, I didn't *think* VS was over there. I mean... I remember, just a few years ago even, people in the UK were willing to pay murderous prices (including international shipping costs) for VS stuff from US ebay sellers. I think they had the VS perfumes over there, and that was about it.
      How long have they had VS retail over there?

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  • mikemx55
    They're thin and they're almost nude.. call me crazy, but that's sexy to me lol
    Like 2 People
    • mikemx55

      Are some of them too thin? Sure, but would I say NO?

    • mikemx55

      "This picture makes me think "sleepover", which is fun, but also the least sexy thing ever."
      - Wrong. Sleepover, two girls; lesbians; makeout -> sex

      It always leads to sex. ALWAYS

    • Lol that is absolutely not a thing that happens at sleepovers.

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  • FatherJack
    I have never found these attractive , besides the fashion industry is run by GAY men , hence no interest in curves.
    Like 1 Person
    • There are lots of gay fashion designers -- but not really any more than in any other design field.
      (A similar percentage of, say, housewares designers are gay, too. Like the guys who design that fancy postmodern furniture.)

      It's business, dude. As I explained in the take, the choice of models has EVERYTHING to do with **what will inspire the most women to buy the products**... and NOTHING to do with men's tastes, either gay or straight.

    • FatherJack

      Aye , true , women are bigger consumers than men , hence your comment in the last paragraph , totally agree , profit margins are above all.. money doesn't talk , it shouts fucking loud !!

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