You CHOSE the Friendzone!

[dragonfly6516]

I'm seeing all these posts lately about whether or not the "friendzone" is real, or how to get out, and how to avoid it entirely, and it's actually really freaking simple to get out:

LEAVE.

If you hang around after rejection, THEY didn't put you into the friendzone, YOU did.

You made your intentions known, they rejected you. Knowing that you want more, it is deceptive and misleading to hang around expecting them to change their minds, or trying to wear them down. Take time and space away from them to clear your head, let those feelings die, and then attempt a friendship with them later. If they can't respect your needs, they don't even deserve you at all.

You rejected them after they made their intentions known. It is selfish of you to expect them to hang around and keep treating you like a best friend when they want more. Respect them if they need time away or to end the friendship. Rejection is like a knife in the gut, and you're the one holding it!

Now, let's say you're starting to catch feelings, but you're not sure how they feel, or you're simply afraid of that possible rejection.

Would you like to save yourself a million painful steps? That too, is really very simple: If you want more than friendship, do not make grand gestures to win them over, or they will come to accept these benefits as perks of being FRIENDS with you.

You know the old saying: Don't buy the cow when you can get milk for free. Don't treat them the way you would treat your BF/GF if they're not, if they're just a friend.

The most responsible thing to do, is make known as soon as possible when you start catching feelings. Get the hard part out of the way, and move forward, even if that means time away after a rejection.

If you're just meeting them and interested in getting to know them on a romantic level, let them know that you're interested, but don't go professing any feelings, because that would be creepy.

[Anonymous]

I always thought that "friendzone" applied more to the period prior to someone's confession.
If the person has already been rejected since they're only seen as friends, what's the point of fighting trying to get them to see you as a potential SO?
Of course there are also cases where they do become a couple eventually.

[MarcoIsAFailure]

That's what I thought too.
That's why girls then complain about the guys leaving as soon as they make clear they aren't interested in him.

[Opinion Owner]

@MarcoIsAFailure
Exactly. Even here on GAG, most people who want to get out of the so-called friendzone haven't apparently confessed yet, they've just been friends for years and wanna know how to take the next step without ruining the friendship.

[John_Doesnt]

You're saying I should just tell her? "Baby, I never wanted to be your friend, I just wanted to see you naked."
I don't think that conversation would go well.

[dragonfly6516]

LMFAO!

[coachTanthony]

www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a29124-how-men-can-avoid-the-friendzone-for-good

[Anonymous]

One of the most false beliefs about being successful with women is the concept that, by helping them, you will earn their gratitude and be rewarded with sex. Along with voluntarily defending their honor, this behavior comprises the actions of the white knight, and is right up there with “just be yourself” for dating advice guaranteed to fail. We here at ROK dismiss this behavior out of hand, as it never works, but why is that, and is there any woman that you should help in today’s society?
The social acceptability of “soft prostitution”
Prostitution, long held as either the original occupation or the world’s first crime, depending on which side of the moral compass to which your needle swings, has long been used by women to get what they want out of life at the moment. Trading their relative beauty for a relative lack of capability has always been a trade that varies in acceptability to society.
“Hard prostitution,” as the term is used, is reserved for the traditional version of putting your money on the nightstand for sex right then and there. Porn workers, paid for “acting,” could also be considered hard prostitutes, selling their bodies to the production company. Outside of the porn business and brothels, hard prostitution is still mostly illegal, but, like the joke goes, if every man’s equipped to be a rapist; every woman’s equipped to be a hooker, and selling your ass is always on the table when she gets desperate enough.
“Soft prostitution,” on the other hand, is the implicit bargain of repaying with sex for certain goods and services a man has bestowed upon a woman. If you take a girl out on anywhere from one to a few dates, pay for meals and entertainment, it’s expected that she has sex with you soon thereafter. Often, a few drinks in the bar that night is enough, and you may even be able to pull a one-night bang with your game alone. All of these are acceptable by today’s society, especially if it is seen as her “choice” to have sex with you.
What is NOT acceptable in society is to trade favors for sex if you are not already in a relationship at some level with someone. Changing the oil in her car will not get her to allow you to check her own oil; while she may or may not be an actual soft prostitute, she doesn’t THINK she is, so she would not trade car maintenance for sex, UNLESS you’re her boyfriend, which makes it ok.

[Opinion Owner]

Women don’t have sex with men in their friendzone. I’ll refer you to my colleague Mr. Savage’s works on the matter but the upshot of this is that, if you’re getting no sex from your efforts, not only should you not be friends with them, you shouldn’t help them at all, with anything, because equality, and the following.
Favors and friendship are based on reciprocal value
I maintain no friendships with worthless people, and you should not either. As I grew up, I made friends from various stages in my life, and some I remain friends with to this day, some are merely acquaintances now, and some I have no contact with anymore at all.
We all have those friends that, when we were younger, had all their shit straightened out and were of good value in a friendship. Time moved on, and we grew up, and maybe they didn’t. Maybe someone fell to vice or crime or mental instability, and we cut our losses and went on. Some didn’t, and remained our friends, and, along with more recent additions, ...

[Opinion Owner]

... comprise your tribe of people to call upon in times of need and to hang out with in times of fun.
All my friends have knowledge that they will use to assist me if I need it, plus being fun to hang with. Whether it’s just simply moving, or long range precision shooting, or the finer points of cam selection on an Olds Rocket 400, or how to best run a Big Green Egg, a good friend will explain his knowledge and usually invite you over for a demonstration of the topic at hand, or loan you parts, cook a meal showing the grill off, or make you some hand loads to try in your rifle.
They do this because they value your friendship, and they know that you’ll be there for them when they need help in their time. You have similar interests, and do the same things for fun. People like hanging out with like-minded individuals because we’re social animals and like to learn new things and occasionally show off a little.

[Opinion Owner]

The hard truth is that most women simply have no skills at much of anything, anymore. I’m not going to find a girl that likes to run, garden, and cook, and is into guns and classic cars; there’s never been many of those to begin with, and even less now. Many women today can’t even do the traditionally feminine skills of cooking and sewing. You’re going to get next to nothing, other than maybe a thank you, for doing something for a woman simply because she lacks any means to repay the favor.
Imagine if a female coworker asked me to help her and her husband with a big project some weekend. The appropriate solution is that you’d come over and help him with it, and she would cook you both dinner, and you’d have a fine evening following the endeavor, but nowadays, even if you didn’t get hauled into HR court by suggesting she repay the favor with a cherry pie, she probably couldn’t make one anyway.

[Opinion Owner]

Don’t help women that can’t help you. It’s a waste of time, and any association with a woman can now land you in SJW hell, so it’s just not worth it.
Women you should help
Given the above, surely there must be some women it is appropriate to assist. Ones that have helped you along the way, made you the man you are, or can help with something, or with whom you’re in a good relationship with? Certainly there are, but there’s not many.
The first one is your mother. I owe my mom everything, so anything she needs from me, she gets. Advice, physical labor, just being around to keep her company, anything. One perk of growing up with her was fabulous cooking, and she enjoys demonstrating the old skills as thanks for anything I do for her, which is nice.
The second is your serious relationship material. Wife, fiancée, long term live in girlfriend, whatever. You live together, so by helping her, you’re helping yourself as you have shared objectives.

[dragonfly6516]

Way too many women fail to understand the concept of "prostitution".

If you're withholding sex for favors or a label, then you are in fact trading sex for goods or services, which is the direct meaning of the word.

I'm not like most women. I'm in an open relationship and don't bond or attach through sex, but I have standards. I won't go to bed with you unless we are already friends, because I want to know that you will respect me and my body, that I'm just a hole to fuck, even if we're just hooking up for fun.

But I'm also sapeosexual, and I'm only attracted to intellect. I want to know your mind and personality before I can develop any sort of attraction, even a sexual one.

[dragonfly6516]

**not just another hole to fuck

[Opinion Owner]

Also, since you’re banging her already, extra sex and desserts should be on the table for your labors.
Third up is any female extended family members you may have that fit into a motherly role, full of nurturing and home cooked goodness. However, be advised, your mileage may vary on the woman involved, the less traditional and family minded she is, the less benefit.
Lastly is any long-term friends that you may have had from high school or earlier that are female and have withstood the test of time. You may not get anything from your endeavors, but maybe it’s worth it for old time’s sake or help in the distant pass.
You’ll note that there are two kinds of women out there I did not list that perhaps should have been in there. The first is the female coworker. You simply don’t want anything to do with women in the workplace; it’s an HR complaint waiting to happen. Help them as much as you have to within the scope of your job and during work hours,...

[Opinion Owner]

but always beg off of any outside of work interaction apart from mandatory fun “team building” with an appropriately polite excuse.
The second is the wives of your friends. Do not help them directly. Always help your friend. Even if it is doing something for his wife, it needs to be clear you are helping him, and, although you don’t mind helping her out, it’s because of him that you are there. This establishes the priorities and keeps you safe. When my good friend and his wife come to visit, I sometimes go running with her, since she and I both run, and he doesn’t. This is scary ground, and it’s only because of very solid friendship I even consider it; it’s probably not a good idea.

[Opinion Owner]

Conclusion
It’s depressing to sort your interactions on whether or not they are investments with a return, or whether or not it’s politically safe to do so, but, like much of the red pill philosophy, it’s a reaction to our times. Sure, I wish women would embrace re-developing feminine skills and repaying for help with them, but it’s not likely going to happen, so, if they won’t screw you, screw them.

[MrOracle]

This is absolutely true.

While the girl can choose not to date you or not have romantic feelings towards you, only YOU can put yourself in the FriendZone - which you do by continuing to hang around her and pay attention to her and do things for her in some vain hope of somehow winning her over (hint: you won't).

So, MOVE ON, and spend all that same energy either looking for another girl or spending on a girl who actually is interested in you.

It makes no difference how much you like someone else if they don't feel the same way about you, so any energy you spend on them is wasted - and you won't ever get that time or energy back. So spend that time and energy more wisely, and you'll get much better returns on it.

[Frosteh]

I actually agree with this a lot. The problem with a lot of males is that they think that the friendzone is some artifical place where they've been put, and if that could only be lifted somehow and the girl sees the real you, then you'd be a viable candidate for a relationship.

The bottom line is that she rejected you and you simply cannot handle that rejection, you seek to blame it on something else. You have 2 options here.

1) Recognize she's not attracted to you and accept that you're not willing to change and forget about an intimate relationship, and move on.
2) Work out what she really wants in a man and work hard to become that thing.

Just be aware that not all women find virtuous things attractive in men and if you seek to become the thing they want most you could just be shooting yourself in the foot.

[dragonfly6516]

I don't agree with changing yourself to please someone else, or trying to be what you're not. There is a difference between improvement, and total change.

[Frosteh]

Well ultimately if you're changing to attract another person, you're still doing it selfishly, because you're doing it to meet your own desires which is an intimate relationship with that person. And a lot of the time the limiting factor for guys are things that you'd ideally want to attain anyway, like greater social standing, being more virtuous, being a good provider, etc.

[AnikaK]

i dont mind being friends after i get rejected. bc I've been rejected i lose interest. i mind when they pretend to be interested but keep me as a friend. its confusing and i just assum they need to go slow. bc i like going slow. by the time i realize they just want friendship its annoying bc i wasted time. but as long as i know, then im fine. id never try to change their mind. only if i know i have not been myself, i might want a chance for them to get to know the real me. but hats it. if they are not interested, ok.

I don't know why anyone complains about friendship if you've been told the truth thats all you can ask for. its demeaning to think you will change a persons mind as if they do not know themselves.

[AnikaK]

lucky to be honestly told a person just wants friendship. better than being kept around bc they are hoping for sex.

[Unit1]

"You CHOSE the friendzone!"

You will reconsider those words again after you have been put into the friendzone by a real Mr. Perfect. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it will not happen to the others.

But yes, I'd get out as soon as I am being tossed into that direction. No rudeness from me whatsoever. Just stepping out of the friendzone instantly and not regret to have taken the chance.

[dragonfly6516]

Nope. If he says no, I stop trying and walk away. And one guy can't seem to figure out why I gave up so quickly and easily, and is now trying to get me to initiate contact with shy guy gestures. But he's way too late, because I am a with a "Mr. Perfect".

[Unit1]

That's Good for you. But many of us still get tossed towards that direction. I guess what you meant to say is "you choose TO STAY in the friendzone" rather than choosing it (whereas the latter is out of our control).

[Regular1]

It's pretty simple. If the girl tells you she isn't interested in anything more than friendship, you have two options. You can tell her that you don't need anymore friends and to have a nice life. Or you can stay a friend. But we all know that women don't have men friends for the sake of friendship. They have male orbiters that they use to help them run errands or fix things around the house or any number of other to-do items. So if a woman puts me into the friend zone, the first time she asks me to change a light switch or even move a chair upstairs, I'm going to tell her I expect a blowjob FIRST. As the old bumper sticker said, Cash Gas or Ass-Nobody Rides For Free.

[dragonfly6516]

Except that I'm the one who taught most of my guy friends how to do all those things that you say women keep men around for... Most of them don't even have cars of their own, which is why they buy me gas or lunch for rides.

[samsmoove]

If you're 34 and your guy friends don't own a car you must have some loser friends

[danadanadana]

I could not agree more with this article. I "friendzoned" someone once, his feelings for me were bleedingly obvious but I never felt the same for him as he did for me. He decided that he needed to part ways and honestly, we have both been better off being apart. Sure I will miss the friendship but he was not in a good place, it was really one sided as he was putting me on a pedestal. At least now from what I have heard through friends he is doing much better.

[dmgstarfleet]

That is honorable=most women friendzone such saps and use him as their emotional tampon

[Joelski440]

Damn! I literally just more or less asked something pertaining to this question. I ghosted a girl that put me in the friendzone. She's all butthurt because I ended the friendship because I don't want to watch her & her new man fawn all over each other. Honestly I was more curious about her cliché lines if they held any true emotion.

[dragonfly6516]

I don't believe that anyone can be "just friends" with someone if they have feelings for them. I think you did the right thing getting away from her.

[Joelski440]

Thank you for the answer, unfortunately I will run into her eventually. she's a mutual friend of a friend so I guess I will have to suck it up & hope i'm better prepared when I see her again.

[ThisDudeHere]

I agree that the friendzone doesn't exist unless you allow it to. If you express romantic interest in a woman and she proposes to just maintain a friendship, it then becomes your own problem if you agree. All you have to do is just leave if you don't want anything other than a romantic relationship with her.

[ObscuredBeyond]

I've had women friendzone me, and then regret it later after I'd moved on. One even got married, and then told me she wished she'd given me a chance instead. But that it was too late. And sometimes, the gal's feelings do change. But that doesn't mean the man should go around being desperate all the time.

I do find that by contenting myself with friending them, that most of them weren't that good at friendship either.

[Prof_Don]

You're sorely mistaken.

When a guy hears "friendzone", it isn't about necesssarily DWELLING in the friend zone.

The issue is being given the proposition of "friends or nothing", with romantic interest, which was the original pursuit, being taken off the table.

[dragonfly6516]

The article is about people who complain about being put into the friend zone when they want more than just friends. It you're okay with just friendship and welcome it, then this take isn't for or about you.

[MarcoIsAFailure]

Usually friendzone refers to the time before she made clear to him, that she is not interested.
Otherwise it does make no sense at all, that women then go on to complain that those guys leave and don't want to be friends, as soon as they do...

In the case you mentioned, I do agree.
I do want more, I know she don't. If it's then hard for me to just be friends, that's on me and my problem to deal with.

But again, that's not how that term friendzoned is usually used.

[Swiss_Tengu]

The friendzone can be both before and after confession. If you are aware of your situation, you have means to change it. If you choose to wait for things to change to your favour on their own while it only makes you miserable, don't complain.
I know, if the opposition constantly tempts you for more but tells otherwise, hope can linger on for quite some time. But still, your choice.

[ATuairiscean]

The old friend zone - The 64,000 dollar question - It only works if both people on the same page that nothing will ever happen and they accept or are content with this - I would love to see scientific analysis of these (of course it will never happen) - In reality I believe that very few friend zones work out even if the majority of cases say they can handle it someone or both will get hurt - I have never seen a friendship survive once unrequited feelings became a factor.

[rjroy3]

To be fair, it's twofold. They put you in the friendbox in their mind and you accepted it, rather than walking away. So you chose the option that was made available. But agreed, it's stupid to flip out over it and be racking your brain how to get out of the friendzone, when you should really just leave because you don't want to be just their friend and you're not their friend right now anyways so it's not even real.

[BlueEyesWD]

I don't think it's normal for someone to break up and still be friends with, heck even if she or he was your best friend you will just ruin your friendship that you once had. It will be just too awkward to hang around with someone you used to have something more than just friendship.

[dragonfly6516]

No one said anything about a breakup, I'm talking about being rejected when you ask them out.

[BlueEyesWD]

I know, I just went to the next stage when she or he accepts you and then you break up.

[HikerDude]

I agree. I let myself get put in the friendzone when I was physically and emotionally weak, but getting strong put an end to that. I'm forward with girls now, and the result is that they either tell me they're with someone or they flirt back. Everything works so much better when the guy has the balls to go for what he wants.

[Vyxzuw]

Yes, to a point.

Then there are girls that lead a guy on emotionally, and flirt with them, but never have any intentions of doing anything more.
That's what being friendzoned really means.

[dragonfly6516]

You still chose to stay. "Maybe" isn't an acceptable answer to a strong yes or no question. "Will you date me?" Because I'm not going to hang around and let you play with me.

[Vyxzuw]

You choose to remain in the friendzone, yes, but you might not realize you are in one.

For instance, someone comes off a bad breakup, and says they need time, so you stick around and don't pressure her. Then she hooks up with another guy. You're friendzoned, but didn't think you were until then. NOW if you stay it's your fault.

[AdamThomas]

I just wouldn't stick around in that case.

[dragonfly6516]

Didn't consider that situation. Knowing she was going through a breakup, knowing that she needed a friend, that's what you presented yourself as. But, I can see how that would be a tough call. Because I've known women myself that did intend to date the guy friend once they were in a more stable place, and they did.

[Harry_Richard]

She then goes and tells her friends about how gross you are, they pick you apart and demean everything they can to make themselves feel better. She does this around her friends, they hear this, and guess what?

She put you in the friendzone for her entire group of friends. The friendzone is not something you can escape when she talks about you behind your back and makes it so other women avoid you based on the things she said.

[lord_chilled]

Actually agree completely..
After a girl rejects you , you move on and dont look back. No talks no friendships, none of that bs. Saves you your pride and ego.
And kept me in #neverbeenfriendzonedcrew 😉.

That being said a lot of girls shamelessly take advantage of their friendzoned "pals "tough.