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It is harder for men to attract women than the other way around (Page 3)
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Well everything you stated is the thruth but confidence on women is really attractive to men, every guy i asked said that girls are a looooot more attractive when they got confidence instead of being an insecure little sh*t
I don't disagree. But I didn't mean that men want "insecure little shits'' as you say, just that they prefer women to be somewhat not as confident as them. Also, it is considered socially normal for a girl to be shy, but if a guy is shy then he is often told to 'man up or you won't get any girls'. No such thing exists for shy women.
Yes you're not wrong either , but I'm just sayin because a lot of guys told me that such girls are more attractive :-)
I think take owner is confusing confidence with arrogance and/or aggressiveness.
@lumos How exactly?
Because I have such a hard time believing that some men actually want women to be less confident than them (unless they want them to be insecure because it's easier to manipulate insecure people). A girl can be confident and submissive. Confident and calm. Confident and collected. Confident and humble. I see no reason for a guy to prefer a woman to be more insecure than him, unless he has some major insecurities himself.
@lumos well perhaps my choice of words could have been better. My general point of view is that men generally prefer themselves to be more confident than their woman - so as to feel manly.
But a side note is that women require that men be more confident. No such requirement exists on women. A man can be shy but unlike a woman, nobody will tell him "oh you poor thing. Don't worry - some day princess charming will see in to your shy heart and come and pick you up"...
Like I said, I think you're confusing aggression and dominance with confidence. Confidence is about believing in and loving yourself, but not to the point where you're arrogant and you think you're the shit for no reason at all. Yes, there are norms concerning shyness, but I don't see what this has to do with guys actually wanting INSECURE girls? Insecure =/= shy. Confident =/= aggressive, arrogant. Guys feel "manly" when they're around submissive girls, because generally guys prefer to be dominant. But like I said, a girl can be both submissive and confident in herself.
@saandraaa sorry for hijacking your answer by the way lol.
@lumos well please do excuse me for confusing the words - English isn't my main tongue. But I get your point. And the thing about norms for shyness is about the fact that it's still socially permissible for women to be shy for whatever reason. Not men - men just "have" to be confident in order to get somewhere with women. Women (if they happen to be shy) get a free pass in this regard.
@lumos Confidence can be too many things. From who drives the car, to who orders meals, to who deals with assholes, to who speaks openly in front of crowds etc. Girls always say they love a man with confidence, But I swear the word confidence makes people instantly think a man who basically isn't scared to tell a girl he wants to date her. I don't know any man who wants an insecure woman to manipulate. Your comments are very negative towards men all the time. It seems you have dealt with some real assholes, or you are just stuck in a box. To be saying he is mistaken for arrogance/aggressiveness is just rude. You see a man talking about women and immediately get defensive without reading logically. I think you both misunderstand what he means by confidence it is not the same as inferior or that we claim to be Über.
@Yc2K15 Thank you. In all honesty I still don't get how I misunderstood the meaning of confidence. English isn't my main so I can't tell whether she's telling the truth or not.
@Yc2K15 nah, confidence is pretty straightforward. It's about believing in and loving yourself. That's all. I never said all guys want an insecure girl to manipulate. SOME guys do. Abusive guys. Abusive girls exist too. And if you try to claim that no guys are like that just because you "don't know any guy like that" then you're the one stuck in a box. How was I being rude, really? I wasn't being condescending. I was explaining. I wasn't being defensive. I just thought his use of the word "confidence" was wrong, and thought I'd explain to him that he probably meant that some guys don't like aggressive/arrogant/dominant girls, instead of merely confident girls.
I never said anything about being inferior or about guys being "uber". You have misunderstood me.
In my personal experience I find it very difficult to attract the men I want.
It doesn't matter what gender you are- do the best with what you've got
You are very good-looking; who exactly are you trying to attract? Billionaire CEOs?
Is this because you don't conform to the culturally defined norms of your gender?
Maybe instead of trying to attract them, you show some maturity and approach them?
i have with the ones i am attracted to. lol
Don't agree with it... but it's a take I read and felt an interesting view point on a strangely subjective situation.
=)
Who cares who has it harder? If your a dude your a dude and if your a chick your a chick, make the best of your situation.
Some people get an ego boost, pride boost if they are able to win an argument with someone, and some people just hate the cards they are dealt with
First of all, your English is just fine.
And second of all, good take.
i dont find this true or false most girls want a guy to come up to them making it seem like we attract them but it tends to be us freaking out of the cute guy walking towards us.
You made very good points.
I couldn't care less what you have tbh, long as you're attractive in the face, but average looking is even good long as you have an amazing personality and treat women with respect and protect her, love her, be faithful, loyal, trust worthy etc... then that's perfect by me.
- said no woman ever.
@jax yeah but thats where you are wrong about even yourself... There is way too many attractive in the face men with huge respect for woman and have great personalities etc.. so you are looking for success in whatever field you are interested in. So if you like rich fancy men you get one. But if you like low income workers you go get one. Thats why almost everything he sad becomes a factor. You may not come to terms with it but Money/Power is the new Macho/Killer. Men were once attractive because of their killing power. now we are almost expected not to be what we are naturally, then have to figure out which women like muscles or tattoos or whatever girls trend at the time as sexy. Men who want to look good but don't want steroids have to work out for years to get the physique they think women like. Girls just get fake boobs tans make up and lips.
lol there are so many things I could argue with, I don't even know where to start. And I've lost the will to argue since the amount of bitter men on this take will shitbomb me anyway. Bye.
So any one who disagrees with you is bitter? Nice shaming tactic.
Hahaha. I am loving the perfect divide on the up and down votes.
Men will agree with you, women won't. Discussing this is so pointless and a waste of time.
@TheDevilInside no, this is precisely why things like these need to be discussed - it's precisely because opinions differ that makes these discussions relevant.
what's the point of discussing if you'll never find a agreement? Let's just agree to disagree and not waste time
@TheDevilInside Nazis wanted to kill Jews. Jews wanted to live. They couldn't find a common ground and then agreed to disagree and go their separate ways. How did that end?
Of course it's an over the top analogy but you get the point don't you?
You've got nothing.
It's not that women are picky or have unrealistic explanations. It's that men will quite literally stick it in anything with a hole, where women require emotional connection.
Nah, that's not true. It's a mix of both.
Men have very few standards for sex. Women have very high standards for sex.
Neither of what you said is really true.
So basically have money and be ballsy... nothing new here bro!
I know, but that's the thing. It's not required of women but you are expected to be like that.
Oh yeah i missed the point careless reading on my part
Yeah i dont expect these things from women, and never will, we are just wired like that
can't really change them
Well sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive, I will admit, its still tough and accept to deal with which sometimes causes me to feel bitter, resentful, frustrated but when I look at that analogy, it makes me have empathy
as for the career aspect you mention, if a guy is past a certain age and lives with his parents and is not financially stable yet and no real job yet his mating market value will pretty much be invisible, and you mentioned about guys wanting to be the provider, main bread-winner, well that depends on the guy I feel, me personally I hate, despise, loathe, it gets annoying and frustrating on how us guys are valued and questioned so damn much on our job, career, stability, income, societal position, what we are doing with our life or where we are headed in life. Being the protector is fine, no problem with that, its more being the provider that I dislike the most, but that's mainly because I'm not looking to get married or settle down yet
though human sexuality is supposedly far beyond that. Hence concealed ovulation, and a female libido that compares to a man's.
In fact not too long ago, being very horny used to be considered a "womanly" thing, while men were considered to be "above that sort of thing." I would argue that was a sexist way of thinking. But we basically thing the same way in reverse these days, where men are the horny beggers, and women are the ones who are said to be "above such impulses."
like I feel the list of things that turn women off is a lot longer than the other way around
I don't agree at all. I think we as genders have it equally hard. I see how many guys have liked this, they don't know how it is for a woman, so they don't know.
Let me direct you to this video on youtube. It very easily portrays the differences between men and women.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU
Actually, a woman, Norah Vincent, wrote a book about the time she spend living as a man.
One of the biggest things she brought up in that book was how ridiculous she found the whole dating thing when it came to straight guys. Girls were much more friendly to her as a woman. Even if she was going as a guy, then revealed she was actually a woman, she noticed to her frustration that girls would go from hostile and venomous to friendly the moment they realized she was a woman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU
OMG we just posted the same thing! Hahaha
Did you read the book?
@OpenClose no I did not. I just watched the video.
@OpenClose To be fair, girls are taught to be watchful and protect themselves. Rape is not something men have to worry about, but we absolutely do. Believe it or not, but many guys find that a girl is obligated to sleep with him, if he is friendly to her, otherwise she is a bitch.
Likewise do they often get mad after being denied sex, if she HAVE been friendly to him, because then she is giving false signals and leading him on. Guy logic.
She goes into much greater detail about how that was basically her least favorite experience. At one point, she said something along the lines of "It was frustrating knowing that girls are annoyed when guys hit on them, but say that he must do so to be a real man. It forces men into a double-bind of either being a creeper or a loser."
As she put it in the video, guys need each other for these sorts of things, because they exist outside of women's experiences, but when men bring them up to women, they are ignored as whiners who need to man up.
@OpenClose I didn't watch the video either of the times. Im not saying what is right, Im just stating what is reality. I do however, think everyone have the right to reject whomever they feel like rejecting.
@OpenClose I just watched some of the video, and I have NO problem believing men are a lot kinder than women. Women are bitches to other women, where men are nice.
Men don't find me attractive so it would be guys because they pretend to like girl stuff but girls also pretend to like guy stuff.
Say wut?
I confused myself...
now, the nice thing is that guys generally love girls who share interests like cars, video games, etc.
The moment a woman figures out a guy loves my little pony or does his nails, she runs like there's a gun to her head.
Guys open too many options for girls, that's why it's harder. You need to be more reserved, then things will improve.
This is a solution to the problem that I have envisioned as well but It's nigh-impossible to implement barring some gender-social reconstruction on a pretty much global scale.
Instead, you need to encourage a culture that changes women's opinions of men and vice versa. We can call this movement gender egalitarianism. It's already been suggested among youtubers like Sargon of Akkad, and (probably) others.
@Nobodycares as much as I'd loathe to admit it, I think that we would have to focus on changing men's opinions of women. Women have high standards and men have low standards precisely because men give women a lot of attention. If we were to teach men to not act like dogs in general, then maybe women would stop thinking that they are like a commodity that's in high demand.
I agree. It's the men's fault for making women this way. I recently started playing a new online game and I was able to make friends rather quickly with many people, mostly guys. I couldn't really make friends with the females on there without being given suspicious or dirty looks.
I asked people around what's the deal about certain specific female players there, and the information I was told was that they are really popular with the guys and everyone constantly chats them or tries to talk to them.
It's no wonder I couldn't make friends with them. It's kind of both genders faults. The men for putting them so high on pedestals and the women for actually thinking they are meant to be on the pedestals, and if not that, it's also possible that the women thought I would be "all over them" just like most guys are. I was thinking to myself "What do these women take me for?" it makes me want to do the exact opposite and not talk to them at all.
Only men have the power to change that.
Yeah, I don't know. The only thing we can do is encourage the culture, and not enforce it on people.
Take Owner's stance seems pretty unique. Not MRA, and doesn't strike me as overtly feminist either. Interesting.
They like stocky fat cunts to be honest. Guys with abs like me don't cut it anymore. Huge muscles there woman standard
Guess I'm going to pretend I'm a bum just to get a woman that doesn't want me for my money
attractive men > attractive women lol
its just that women have stupidly high standards but when you reach them you're like a god to them
Great take. Agreed 100%
Yes, it's harder for us :(