How I Feel as a Nice Guy the Way Nice Guys get Stereotyped

[Unorthodox91]

This is about how misleading five misconceptions about nice guys are.

Misconception 1: Nice Guys always buy roses for girls, hold doors, pay for dates, etc.

I hold doors but like I would for anyone. As for roses and paying for dates I do not do these things because I like for the girl to pay for herself. If I pay for these things, it feels like I am 'buying' her time, and she does not actually want to spend time with me for me. So this is one of the common misconceptions about 'my breed' that I find extremely frustrating.

Misconception 2: Nice guys do not do anything to improve themselves, they just do aforementioned nice things to try and get sex

First of all, I never do nice things to get something in return, least of all sex. Second, as I already explained I don't do 'nice things' like pay for dates, buy gifts, etc. because I feel that this is not something a woman should expect off me. Third, I do lots of things to improve myself: I have my hobbies, I go to the gym, I work on my aspirations, etc. It seems like this is not enough by itself to get sex, or a girlfriend either for that matter.

Misconception 3: nice guys have boring or nerdy personalities

To be honest a lot of the activities I am interested in are very physically demanding, I actually have a fashion sense, and a cool taste in music. I may be a nice guy but I am the antithesis to a nerd. Not that I have anything against them, I'm just not one of them. So this is something people should stop assuming: "oh you don't have a girlfriend? must be a nerd."

Misconception 4: nice guys think they are owed sex

It's true that I personally think lots of negative things about how women choose men. E.g. a lot of women don't sleep with a guy unless he is high status - a celebrity, wealthy (gold diggers), popular, whatever. Some women have to be married first or in a long term commitment which is just, whatever. Other women outright demand payment (hookers). Finally, there are lots of women that will not sleep with a guy unless he can pass her 'shit tests' (read: play the game of psychology with her). The existence of these kinds of girls makes it harder for me to lose my virginity and I don't like them. However, I do not think they owe me their bodies because that would be rape.

Misconception 5: nice guys are like Elliot Rodgers

So this is related to misconception 4. Because Elliot Rodgers was a guy that thought women owed him sex, he got mad about it and killed a bunch of people (mainly men because he thought they were alphas stealing his girls or something). Because of this, when people hear nice guy rants, their gut reaction is to associate the author with Elliot Rodgers. This is a false assumption because just complaining about the way things are does not mean you intend to use force to change the way things are. It also does not mean that none of Elliot Rodgers' complaints about women were invalid, just that his method of expression was unethical.

[arineunha]

Nice guys say things that they think you like. Most aren't genuine, because no one falls in love with someone that fast. Most are looking for someone, instead of me or the girl they are trying to pursue. Their passive aggressiveness.. because you don't feel a certain way.
Being there for someone is great but even guys shouldn't lose their self respect to keep a girl

[Unorthodox91]

@arineunha

Please try and take the time to understand this take properly.

[Anonymous]

The whole "nice guys" thing is nothing more than women's attempt to rationalize their attraction for jerks. That's really all it is.

[Pyrofox]

100% true, when girls say they dont want "nice guys" it leaves me puzzled when they have spent their lives constantly going in and out of relationships. I mostly just conclude that those women have a diluted idea that bad boys, rebels and anarchists are the way to go.

When really they are just sticking their noses in all the wrong places.

[beauty2020]

Buy the roses and pay for the damn dates! The real reason you do not pay for the dates is because you have a shortage mindset, and you're stingy and wanna convince everyone in the opposite. How would you like a woman who doesn't take care of her looks, she doesn't put on a makeup, she doesn't dress well, looks horrible and says, "well I do not wear makeup and fancy clothes because I want the man to love me for who I am and not my make up and dress." and then she complains that everyone leaves her because she is too nice? You know which planet you live in and in this planet women like men who pay for the dates and the ones who bring the roses ok? You're holding the door and not doing the most important things like being passionate doesn't mean a damn thing to women. We women are attracted to passion when we see a guy is interested in us, and if you're willing to pay for the roses and the dates, it says, "Oh he is very much interested in me". When you, however, do not buy anything it looks like you do not care as much and thus the fire slowly gets extinguished inside. You're being nice or jerk has nothing to do here. Jerks usually lie about giving women what they want and need to last a bit, you in the other hand are being upfront and saying, I will not give you what you want to take from me, and of course you're not getting anything, why would you even get surprised?

[beauty2020]

You're not a top model to say, I won't pay for anything, I won't buy you anything, but yeah, I do want sex from you, I do want you to look top notch, and on top of everything, although I do not want to buy you roses to show my passion and interest in you, I still want you to be interested in me, because, Umm, let's see, at least I'm honest, see I'm a different kind of a nice guy, I don't lie about being stingy

[Unorthodox91]

Tbh I would prefer the woman does not wear a heap of make-up: a naturally attractive woman does not need it. Anyway I'm already decided that I will not lose my virginity like that, it would be a compromise to the standards I already set myself. Besides, women are already attracted to a host of factors outside of whether or not the guy pays for the date (which is just conservative brain washing en masse by the way).

[Unorthodox91]

Your last point was stupid: sex isn't meant to be something you pay for, it's something that benefits both partners. Maybe I get excited about ag girl buying ME stuff, maybe that's what I need to spark attraction... Yet that's not a standard I impose. See?

[john335]

Bit of a difference as I learnt just recently. I was out with some guys hanging round places we shouldn't be to get a bit of a thrill and I met a dude that was sport build, loud, confident and had a reputation as a player. When I got very drunk with my best friend and we were stuck in the middle of nowhere he gave us a place to sleep and kept asking to make sure we were comfy. The next day we all just hung out and I realised that sometimes the sporty, loud and overly confident can be very nice people, they are just different and date the girls that suit their type. You may need to look for a quiet girl that doesn't need you to be the loud and outspoken type.

[john335]

Can't judge them straight away and so many women that are considered weird and quiet could be your type of you have a little chat. With so many people in this world I doubt that you've been going for your type.

[Unorthodox91]

I wouldn't classify myself either introvert or extrovert, tbh. I'm definitely not looking for a girl that fits only one generic category...

[john335]

Well then find a mix of both like yourself. I do admit that now there is much more single people in the world then people in loving relationships. We now have a culture of sex and that makes it very hard for a guy looking for love to find a women that's are a monogamous relationship

[Unorthodox91]

most people are a mix actually, that hasn't been enough to help me find someone. I'm more interested in sex than love.

[ThePeggy5454]

The nice guys who are nice with any girl they see or meet are kinda confusing for me. They even sometimes come in too strong flirting both sexually and romantically, they don't even realize what they are doing just because they think they are nice. I actually think if a guy treats everyone special then no one is really special to him and that is because he has a lack of some quality (taste as an example). To me, its good to be polite and respectful to everyone but being "nice" to ALL the members of the opposite sex is actually more like preying on them to me.

[Unit1]

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This is so on point! Well done!
Also, Elliot Rodgers was not even a nice guy! He was a racist and I think he took rejections too personally.

Also women saying "Nice guys are not nice" is really contradicting itself. If nice guys are not nice, then what are they? My point is more importantly if women do not want to date nice guys because "they are not nice" then why are they suddenly so surprised when they end up with a jerk, who intentionally harmed her? I mean she LITERALLY ASKED for it! A true nice guy would NEVER intentionally harm her!
But let them have it. It was quite literally their call. No need to get upset about things, that you can not control.

Oh well
Such is the life of a #NiceGuy :P :) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Browneye57]

Dude, you seriously need some game. This 'nice guy' thing is simply bogus societal programming you've had shoved down your throat. And the women are not impressed with it at all.

So, go here, click on the GAME blog, and read: www.illimitablemen.com
Then come back and see if you've had a change in heart.

You would also highly benefit from another mens blogger, Rollo Tomassi. Read at least the first two years' blogs here: www.therationalmale.com

Then hit the gym. Hard. Make lots of money. And you'll have best pick of the best women available out there.

[Unorthodox91]

yeah, thanks but actually I've already done / am doing all the things you mention. also, I refer you to misconception number three, because you obviously haven't read the full take. in fact I will even save you the effort of scrolling up, because I'm feeling generous today, so here's the quote:

' Misconception 3: nice guys have boring or nerdy personalities
To be honest a lot of the activities I am interested in are very physically demanding, I actually have a fashion sense, and a cool taste in music. I may be a nice guy but I am the antithesis to a nerd. Not that I have anything against them, I'm just not one of them. So this is something people should stop assuming: "oh you don't have a girlfriend? must be a nerd." '

[AleDeEurope]

It's only women on the Internet who think guys that consider themselves nice aren't actually nice. In real life most women will tell you that they want a nice guy. Sure, some have encountered the fake nice guy, but they don't assume every nice guy is like that, like the bitter ones online do. It's the Internet, you gotta deal with losers trashing good people.

[Unorthodox91]

yeah, while I think this is a problem I also think it is a problem that people assume nice guys are uninteresting or have a lack of style, hence go to advice for nice guys once they're told to stop being fakers, is to get out their mother's basement once in a while.

[Pyrofox]

Man you got this so right its unbelievable wish I knew you personally bro all the right phrases. People consistently think "nice" in the term "nice guys" is a negative title. When really its something to be proud of. Not in a boastful way but in the sense that nice guys know how to respect others. And dont feel as though the world owes them. Rather they seek to make their own history.

[LucyRose]

Well I guess you can say it goes both ways. Some men think quiet nerdy girls are boring and not attractive, and the girls who like to party constantly are the ones to go for. A lot of women like to go for the assholes because there's just something about that bad boy persona that is exciting. Like you know you shouldn't be doing something. And they think they can change him, that they can somehow magically make all his personal demons disappear, when the reality is, most of the time they can't. Society plays a big role in it too. It just loves to make everyone feel bad about themselves

[Nojudge]

Sometime nice guys will turn into naughty later... Trust me. Over 25 year ago, I had a new friend who was really nice. He did have a fight with his fiancee... And more. Few years later, that nice guy have harmed me... I will not to mention what happened and booted him outta of my life.

[Buldarman]

Has anyone ever wondered why nice girls are never questioned for being nice and genuinely good person but somehow nice guys are considered the scum of the earth who aren't truly nice people?

[Idonthaveausername]

The same goes for girls who have a backbone being called bitches. If a guy is a doormat he's shamed, but a girl is shamed if she isn't one. Society doesn't seem to be able to make up its mind

And there are some "nice" girls with questionable motives. Sometimes they're only pretending to get close to you so they can stab you in the back later

[BuchitaBuchys]

you're not the cliche "nice" guy then. So I don't know why you're being upset. Also, you really think that Elliot Rogers was right? I don't know how "nice" you are then lol So I guess you are a cliche nice guy, and have reason to be upset, get bent.

[Unorthodox91]

I'm upset because everytime I go online for advice, everyone is like, "oh you're too much of a nice guy" and that's it. elliot rodger was right in that too many women are superficial and sit back and judge men when they don't do any work themselves, e. g. approach, pay for dates, etc. he was not right to take their lives however.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Really? And you act like men dont judge and care if your tits are too small? or that you're fat? Humans are superficial in general and then want to blame women. Yet you dont see women going on rampages to take mens lives, we get cats instead lol

Get bent.

[Unorthodox91]

yeah men and women are superficial. but for me example, I am only trying to get girls in my league, so I should be successful, but truth is women generally have higher standards than men.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I dont think we have higher standards, its just that were not as desperate to settle since more men ask us out than women ask men out. We all have standards, but men are more willing to lower theirs in hopes of getting laid, relationships, etc

[Unorthodox91]

you're getting confused, women don't ask men out because they are less invested in the first place. the other scenario doesn't make any logical sense. why would men be so willing to lower their standards if they weren't as invested?

[BuchitaBuchys]

We do ask men out. But we put more effort to attract attention than to get someone. And because you have to settle with what you can get

[Unorthodox91]

trying to attract attention is just like pissing in the wind, because nobody actually knows if you're curling your hair at the cute guy in the mall, or because you just have nervous habit. also nobody knows if you put on makeup to look good or because you want to be approached by guys, and if latter which kind of guys. basically the guys that are successful are not waiting around for signs, their strategy is simple: they see a girl they like they go over to her.

[BuchitaBuchys]

And unfortuantely most women dont think like that

[Unorthodox91]

lack of rational thinking capacity

[BuchitaBuchys]

Just because its not the same way you/men think, doesn't make it irrational. Stop being condescending with things you don't understand.

[Unorthodox91]

but I do, I understand perfectly. either you lazily make flickering eye contact for 0.5 seconds and consider that your part done, like most women do, or you actually have the balls to go and make an effort, e. g. like I do.

[BuchitaBuchys]

you're just being a douche.

I ask men out, I dont flirt or do any of that crap. But I see why women would rather not be the initiators.

[Unorthodox91]

i'm not being a douche, you would feel the same way if you were a 25 y/o virgin that actually put time and effort into getting laid. good for you, but that makes you one in a million. and anyway, it is much easier for you to do so, because less competition.

[BuchitaBuchys]

If it makes you feel any better, all the men I asked out rejected me.

But you are being a douche

[Unorthodox91]

no, why would it? I'm not being a douche. I'm not asking out of my league, I'm working to improve myself, I'm working against the odds in an unfair dating game that IS biased towards women and I'm still trying in spite of sheer hypocrisy from women. it is natural to feel frustrated as a virgin man in his mid-twenties with a high sex drive and social pressure to get laid a lot. of course I feel bitter about the whole thing, anyone else in my shoes would do, including you.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Um, why are you mad at women? Its men that make sexual competition harder.

Men give any and all women even remotely attractive and it makes us 6s feel lie 10s. So of course women are walking around with over inflated egos and over estimated values, because soooooooo many men put us on a pedestal without reason.

[Unorthodox91]

men make the 6s feel like 10s out of desperation. I wish they wouldn't but they wouldn't do it if the dating game wasn't such a steep incline to begin with. as for women, just because someone makes you feel validated, it's no reason to act like prissy little princesses. they should try and see things more realistically and that they are actually in the same league as a lot of the guys they are rejecting. if they did this, more people would have partners.

[BuchitaBuchys]

And you're mad at women for listening to the despearte men? How is that our fault, they need to stop going after us. ANd having low standards is a bad thing, stop settling because that leads to high divorce rates

[Unorthodox91]

I didn't say have low standards, I said people should go for people in their own league: 6s should go for 6s, 7s should go for 7s, etc. but for some reason you interpret that as low standards, maybe you think women should date up and men should date down...

[BuchitaBuchys]

No. I didn't say that at all. Im saying why are you mad at women when its your fellow men giving unnecessary attention?
I think having low standards is bad FOR BOTH because thats why so many relationships fail.

[Unorthodox91]

I already explained this. of course men compete - they have no choice. women are the ones showing low investment and forcing men to compete out of necessity. if you think low standards are bad, then the only way for men to raise their standards is for women to drop their's down a bit. think about it: if women have insanely high standards, the only way a regular man stands any chance of getting laid (or a relationship) is if he drops the bar a bit.

[BuchitaBuchys]

No, that's not it. It's because they keep competing unnecessarily causing problems for other men

[Unorthodox91]

let's say 100 people are kidnapped and put on an island competing for scarce resources which they need to survive. is it the survivors' fault they are in a situation they have to compete for scarce resources or the kidnappers' for putting them on the island to begin with?

[BuchitaBuchys]

The kidnappers, but guess what the reason why it's hard for men isn't because women have standards, it's because men holla at anything that moves. The solution isn't lowering standards (unless they're unreasonable like he HAS to be Justin Timberlake), it's for men to stop being desperate.

[Unorthodox91]

how's this? I hate the men that do that as much as I hate the women who think they're goddesses among humans.

[Unorthodox91]

anyway, seeing as how the guys that do that have no game whatsoever they're not a problem for me. all I have to do to compete with them is approach a woman respectfully. however the women that put themselves on the pedestal don't come down too easy, and they don't put themselves up there because a few builders were wolf whistling.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Having standards doesn't mean you think you're a goddess. It means you value yourself. Look, I get it, you're a single virgin and bitter. But that doesn't mean you have to be so insecure to try to "bag what you can get". Look at your price tag, you're the one who sets the value, not the people you attract.

Now I think this has gone on long enough. Goodbye

[BuchitaBuchys]

It's not just because of cat calling lol lots and lots of men ask us out. I can't even count how many men I've rejected in my lifetime, this isn't bragging, it's sad really. I know not all of them were serious, but I also know not all of them just wanted sex, many wanted something serious with me. Many were even really great guys who were attractive and looking back, I should have given them a chance. But oh well, let bygones be bygones

[Unorthodox91]

of course men approach again and again. that's because if your approaches keep on failing your only option is to keep trying.

[Tony1974]

Unorthodox91 let her gloat all she wants. When she's around 30 and still unmarried... she'll be Kryptonite then. Save your $$ and continue to live your life. Enjoy your hobbies and don't worry about not having sex..(it's grossly over-rated). You'll be knee deep in pussy by the time you're 33.. just hang in there. I didn't bust a nut until 28... but I've had many, many opportunities since. They have an expiration date we don't IF we take care of ourselves.

[Unorthodox91]

@Tony1974 thanks for the heads up I'm not waiting till 33 though. It's a prossy for me by the time I get to 30 and then fuck any woman that expects commitment. You spend your whole twenties fucking alphas and rationalising your lack of attraction to betas while shaming them for actually having desires what you'll find is no alpha is likely to commit and the betas that might have committed at one point will no longer out of sheer repulsion. Things could be better for everyone but nobody wants to make the necessary compromises so instead we work with what we got.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@Tony1974 I'm not gloating. I literally said it's not bragging.
The problem is that men are so desperate that they even ask women like me out. And I'm not much of a catch

[BuchitaBuchys]

@Unorthodox you're a piece of shit

[Unorthodox91]

I'm not a piece of anything. I already know that most of these self-righteous women, just like yourself, would feel the exact same way if you were in my position or that of the men you like to criticise and think of as 'pieces of shit'. Anyway say whatever else you want, because this is my last comment.

[BuchitaBuchys]

No. I don't. There's lots of men who don't want me, and that I've wanted. I don't wish them unhappiness or I don't hold resentment towards them. I don't dance with joy or feel giddy when I see them getting heartbroken, and mind you, this happens a lot. Because just because they rejected me, doesn't mean they deserve to be unhappy.

You want people to be miserable just so losers like you can get laid? You laugh or feel a sick sense of "relief" knowing that the people who rejected you are unhappy? You're a piece of shit. And that's EXACTLY the type of "nice" guy we HATE. You're not nice, you're not a good person. You feel content and rencor knowing that you are being passed over for other men. But you feel content to know that the relationship with Chad Thundercocks fails. How is that good? To me, being nice isn't just nice to those who are good to you, it's being a better person and still wishing them the best with sincerity.

[Unorthodox91]

@BuchitaBuchys

I'm not talking about being rejected a couple of times, I'm talking about being a mid-twenties involuntary virgin. You also talked about how men are needlessly approaching you even though you're not much of a catch. I guess you are more of a catch than you think, why don't you take one of them up? For me, a dry spell is like living in a village in the Australian outback where it hasn't rained for my whole life. For most women, a dry spell is like spending one day in South India during the monsoon period where it doesn't rain.

'You want people to be miserable just so losers like you can get laid?'

I don't even know what you're talking about now because never once did I say that.

'And that's EXACTLY the type of "nice" guy we HATE. You're not nice, you're not a good person.'

The convo was supposed to be about nice guys with attractive features that still get rejected. It wasn't meant to dwell on whether a nice guy is genuine or not.

'Chad Thundercocks'

Lmao.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I thought you said that was your last comment...

Liar.

Anyways, I have arbitrary reasons to reject men and women. Women, well I need dick so I can't date them. Men, because i don't find them attractive. Or I don't like their personality. I once rejected a guy because he has my brothers name. And I'm not going to scream out my brother's name in bed if we were to go out and get serious. Or if I do think they're sexy and nice, I won't because I feel like they could do better than me. I've rejected men for this reason.

Honestly I think I just prefer my solitude at this point and I'll reject people left and right.

[Unorthodox91]

well alright. I don't care if women have their standards just don't make up lame excuses like, "he's a fake nice guy" or if a guy says he is struggling to get laid, tell him "it's because you never work on yourself" when the guy works on himself, goes to the gym etc.

[BuchitaBuchys]

That's not a lame excuse some guys are phony nice guys, like yourself.

[Unorthodox91]

see there was me willing to call a truce. ah well idgaf, I'm done - last post here.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Because you're hard headed and refuse to see how fake you are.

Keep being bitter and let's see how many girls that gets you lol

[Unorthodox91]

like I said earlier, if girls keep on rejecting me that's no problem because I'll just go get a prozzie. I'm not as stupid as Elliot Rodgers :)

[Unorthodox91]

two prozzies maybe... fulfill years of denied sexual gratification ;)

[BuchitaBuchys]

Prostitute? Go ahead that way women won't have to be with a loser like you.

I'd tell you know because that makes you even more unattractive to women, but who are we joking. You're not attractive to women to begin with. It's your only chance to have the touch of a woman I guess.

Go ahead and pay for sex, and prove us right. "Nice" guys don't care about relationships, they just wanna get laid.

[BuchitaBuchys]

**no

[Unorthodox91]

exactly

[Turquoise46]

I think you're confused between genuine nice guys and the fake "nice guys" who DO act "nice" to get sex. They really do exist and laugh about it afterward.

It sounds like you're one of the genuine ones.

[Unorthodox91]

My main frustration is not really that genuine nice guys are taken for fakers. That's a problem but most guys on this site already address that misconception. The biggest frustration for me is that it is assumed that if you are a genuine nice guy and you cannot get a girlfriend it is because you are some combination of the following:

1. Nerdy
2. Boring
3. Unattractive

I am neither of these three, so when people say, "oh if you are a nice guy and can't get laid, you should go hit the gym more often", I want to bang my head against the wall.

[Turquoise46]

Who cares what they say? You know the truth so don't worry about it.

[Unorthodox91]

because it means all the advice on women I get (even the PUA stuff) sucks donkey balls, and I need woman advice bad.

[Unorthodox91]

if you want a prime example of this phenomena check out browneye's post.

[Stone_Fizzlebeef]

Women and relationships are highly overrated. Sex isn't anything special that will blow you away or change your life. In fact, I was pretty disappointed after my first time. Couldn't figure out what all the fuss was about.

Secondly, it's more fun to be bad. Try it sometime. Don't hold that door, don't smile because you feel like you have to, talk a little shit. Don't cross into douchebag territory, but you seem like a smart enough guy to strike a balance.

[Anonymous]

Great take.

I hate that being nice is inherently being a doormat to some. It's like if you're not an asshole, you're a doormat, pussy, etc.

One of the things i also hate is when some women say you're a nice guy but I didn't feel it which translates to, you have issues but I don't wanna tell you and hurt your feelings.

It's like if I have a flaw, I'd rather know so I don't make that mistake then not know and keep making that mistake without realizing it.

[Anonymous]

I agree that you might have genuine nice guys and fake nice guys confused. I'm actually really attracted to nice guys bc I have more confidence in them that they'll be there for me. But I can tell when I've been on dates actual nice guys vs "nice" guys who are pretending and will be angry if I turn them down or don't give them what they want. I just get a vibe.

[Unorthodox91]

I talked about this to the other users that said this. the take is not about genuine nice guys v fake nice guys, it's about people assuming that nice guys in general do not have attractive qualities.

[Whoeverist]

To my mind, is one thing to be nice and a different thing to be a nice guy.
I mean, of course it is good to be polite, however inspiring respect is something you owe to yourself.

[Anonymous]

I just don't fucking care anymore. Y'all wanna call me a "nice guy" then so be it.

But just so you know, I no longer find American women attractive anymore. 96.9% aarehorrible on the inside AND the outside. Only 4% I tolerate simply because I work with them.

[RhythmBlack]

I don't think anything is wrong with a nice guy. I like them, but I guess my way of thinking is rare.

[Phoenix98]

Well I'm not a nice guy but I agree the stereotype is annoying and not fair to genuinely nice and kind people to be mislabeled like that.

[Unorthodox91]

yeah, I'm not that much of a nice guy either but the stereotype still affects me in a weird kind of way (plus empathy for the genuine nice guys out there that suffer even worse for it).

[Phoenix98]

Yeah same here.

[SuitAndTie]

I don't know dude. You seem like a cool guy.

[Phoenix98]

@SuitAndTie Hah well what I mean by I am not a nice guy is that I am a gentleman I can be just as nasty and cruel as I can be kind and nice.

[SuitAndTie]

Gotcha!

[Bandit74]

I don't get why anyone would label themselves as a "nice guy". It just sounds like such a weird thing to say.

[Unorthodox91]

yeah it is a weird thing to say. but it seems to be the 'frame' everyone analyses dating from a man's perspective nowadays and if you're not successful with women, it's because you're too much of a nice guy or you're a fake "nice guy" or something. it seems it's easier to just accept the label before you debunk it or something, I dunno.

[Negrodamuss]

Yea I agree with bandit. It's a bit odd

[Unorthodox91]

@Negrodamuss read my post above your one.