Entitlement And How It Lets Men Down

[tenofthepeaks]

I think people are too entitled these days.

We're owed nothing. Entitlements only exist in social contexts, and even then this depends on what society says. 200 years, people were entitled to own slaves, now no..... People want to own guns, others don't. People want to smoke, others don't want them to. People want gays to get married, others don't want them to. People reckon that all drugs should be legal, others think differently. Well you get the picture. Entitlement is a shaky concept.

This extends to dating.....

Eliot Rodgers is perhaps an extreme example, but then many other guys tend to think similar, without homicides of course.....

There ARE only a certain amount of guys who will get dates. Or to be more succinct will have better opportunities to do so. Some are better looking, others richer, more confident, better social skills, etc. THEY don't get dates because of entitlement, but then they simply have an advantage. it's how it is.

(Little contest...)

I'm not a psychologist, but dating to me is simple. It's about looks, character, and compability. That's it. And compatibility is personal and social.

So what can guys do if they don't get dates/sex.

Well:

- With acceptance comes peace. Get the fuck over it and do something that makes you happy.

- Don't go for the 9s/10s. Leagues exist, get over it. But like everything else in life, they're not absolute, I get that. But don't hit on the hottest because society says so. If you're ugly, have a weird personality, etc., then you won't get on. Simple...

- Change what you CAN change. If you're fat, lose weight. If you're shy, get out and about and be more confident. If you're too nerdy, then don't tone it down, but then accept this CAN be a turn off and moderate it.

I KNOW people will respond "that's a bit harsh" or "they're only human". Yes, they're human. But then it's a fact some have advantages in the dating game. If a person has traits they know women may not like, then moping makes little sense.

But then it's also the media/pop culture that tells us that sex is everything and we need it to be "normal". Sex is natural, duh....but then nobody needs it for survival. A person can go a year without sex, not a year without food or water. Guys get sucked into this, and I guess most DO manage to cope with it, whilst Mr. Rodgers clearly couldn't.

So find your place/role, and don't compare yourself to others. You can get sex also, but then realise life is a big, grand fucking LOTTO and you may not have traits women may like or value. Or freeze yourself, awaken in 150 years, when Asian guys are the hottest/most valued in US society...

[Mustachekitteh]

Your take is 100% true. Nobody owes anyone anything.

Even if someone is a 10 they might like someone who isn't. Like I don't feel like i'm that hot at all. Yet my bf seems to think I do. To me he's a perfect 10 so its a good thing he's as fucked up as I am mentally. XD He does tell me I need to lose some weight. Which I am working on that. Not because he said I needed to. It's because of how my body is in physical pain from not being in better shape. Something he's always saying is "I don't care who you were in the past. All I care about is who you want to be."

[Anonymous]

I completely disagree, first of off it is almost impossible to get a 10, most guys I know always go after girls who are descent looking but not 10s which is ridiculous because nobody in my family or friends ends with a girl like that and the guys that I know who are single would be lucky to have a 6 because even girls who are average looking have more dating opportunities than an average guy, plus a girl with minor flaws can still be beautiful, this is a generalization from your observation but not a fact.

[tenofthepeaks]

OK.

so i cannot comment... and you cannot say why..

the idea that knowing one's limitations is healthy is wrong... ok...

[Roostah]

Exactly. A woman who is a 5/10 can easily get with 7,8 and 9/10 male for sex, and at least a 7/10 for relationship. However, unless a 5/10 male is rich, or popular he literally has to jump over hoops to get the attention of a 4/10 female. But of course women will deny this and act like entitled bitches.

[rocelot]

Considering how woefully ignorant your knowledge of 'entitlements' are, its easy to connect how surface level your understanding of dating is as well. The two pictures show one attractive guy in his mid twenties to thirties that, what, makes at most 50k, and thats being generous. Well the other shows a young man clearly intended to be in his teens who could go on and be a multi millionaire. As that old jokes goes; be nice to nerds, they'll be your boss one day. Be mindful of the fact that everyones a whore the only difference is their price.

Also considering the advent of free online dating and hook up sites ones ability to find personal connection is easier than ever and their superficiality is based on ones own biases not a poorly reasoned out social construct you feel the need to endorse because it gets you laid. People have been finding a way to circumvent such things since the dawn of civilization, it now just really apparent how and why people do.

Finally if your going to write something inflammatory; make it be good. And a personal preference; not hypocritical. If you attack someone who literally went on murderous rampage because of social norms that demand men achieve a state of ever elusive and ill-defined "attractiveness," don't go on and endorse that same system. Unless you want to next one knocking on your fucking door.

[tenofthepeaks]

yes, because nerds always make it lolol.. sorry, but success is subjective.

i think i touched a nerve here, but then fine.

[rocelot]

And what have you done? Also no it isn't; are you going argue that Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Raymond Kruizweil haven't been successful through objective measurements?

Also your the one using emotional reasoning here, not me.

[tenofthepeaks]

what is emotional reasoning? it's just a fact that how people gain success is subjective.

[rocelot]

As a man who gave advice on dating, saying you have no grasp of what constitutes emotional reasoning means my original lacklustre interpretation of your understanding wasn't nearly faint enough in its praise.

[tenofthepeaks]

ok but then anger at some social norm doesn't justify murder... the world isn't always a fair place, get over it...

[tenofthepeaks]

also, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Messi, Ronaldo, Beckham, hardly had/have geeky careers. Your idea is just a stereotype and success is subjective in how it's gained. there are many CEOs who were 'jocks'..

anger aside, my basic point here is just to say that perhaps some guys would be better off by knowing their limitations. you mention social constrcuts, well yeah, who else defines dating? God? horses? the Sun? and if people who didn't harm Rodgers in any way died, well yeah, to me this is wrong. you seemingly support indiscriminate killing, meh, whatever dude..

[rocelot]

"ok but then anger at some social norm doesn't justify murder"

When did I ever say that? Your the one promoting those social norms, I'm saying their dangerous. But I guess acknowledgment is the same as endorsement in your eyes.

"also, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Messi, Ronaldo, Beckham, hardly had/have geeky careers."

Sure, praise overhyped and overpaid individuals who's entire fame rest on a frivolous sporting league that profits come from advertisements by equally frivolous products.

"Your idea is just a stereotype and success is subjective in how it's gained."

Firstly, stereotype's exist for a reason and they are neither positive or negative in definition. Secondly; no. Although ones success is relative to ones goal, the goal itself isn't somehow exempt from criticism, and since a goal is involved success can be measured as well.

[rocelot]

"anger aside, my basic point here is just to say that perhaps some guys would be better off by knowing their limitations."

You are using the exact same language as people who support racial segregation and Hitler.

"you mention social constrcuts, well yeah, who else defines dating? God? horses? the Sun?"

Well since the Sun did create the earth and thus all its life. Yes the sun did create social constructs. Sarcasm, kinda. All your doing is avoiding your responsibility in enabling ignorance to abuse evolutionary psychological principles that affects in society are problematic. Personally I have no issue with this but you feel the need to defend your actions with twisted logic and promote as some egotistical analyst of society instead of admitting your selfish drive and indifference of others.

"and if people who didn't harm Rodgers in any way died, well yeah, to me this is wrong. you seemingly support indiscriminate killing, meh, whatever dude.."

From a narcissist everyone.

[tenofthepeaks]

indifference? lolol.. no.

In all honesty, i don't care if some don't get dates, we all have different breaks.

and nice pedantism, since the Sun is not a person... lol

[tenofthepeaks]

and you compare me to Hitler lolol.. so good emotional health in life is about knowing what one is good at, and how one can best function..

OK, i'll condense my points:

- perhaps some guys don't have as much chance to date as others do

- nobody really needs dates/sex

- limitations are subjective, and knowing one's limitations is key to being happy.

- perhaps guys would be happier if they stopped pining for sex/dates, and moved on

that's it in a nutshell. you can mention that geeks are always successful, but whatever...

[rocelot]

Ugh.
"perhaps some guys don't have as much chance to date as others do"

Whats a successful date? Is it quantity or quality? Whats more important immediate chemistry or long term compatibility? But considering your logic the guy who went on no dates wins because he never went on a bad date since success is subjective.

"nobody really needs dates/sex"

Any one who understands human biology is laughing at you right now. Their laughing their fucking asses off.

"limitations are subjective, and knowing one's limitations is key to being happy."

Honestly it sounds like you stumbled across a philosophical book read the first three pages of subjectivity and thought this is great and stopped before you ever even got close to the nature of solipsism.

"perhaps guys would be happier if they stopped pining for sex/dates, and moved on"

Maybe you'd be too? Or maybe you should stop with your hypocrisy.

Finally don't stop, keep digging, this is comedic gold.

[tenofthepeaks]

sorry, but then you're passively aggressively asserting that i cannot comment, or that according to your standpoint, i hold no right to comment. erm... ok, i don't get where you get this notion from, but meh..

[rocelot]

One more time but this one you do without any personal attacks. That may be hard considering your entire post was one but... Fuck it, just imagining you spending those three hours spelling out each word gives me the giggles.

[tenofthepeaks]

er.. no. I can post 60 words per minute...

but meh, i think you're just here to relieve your ego... lol... sorry i have better things to do with my time. i get you're like this in real life, but whatever.

[rocelot]

Well, your a horrible human being. And read up on solipsism.

[tenofthepeaks]

lolol... sorry, you attacked me, but whatever... you don't make sense.

[rocelot]

Don't blame your ignorance on me.

[tenofthepeaks]

ignorance? well no... i just know your agenda in trying to discuss here...

[rocelot]

Whats my agenda?

[tenofthepeaks]

to get some web stranger to endorse falsehoods... yes, the medical community says people need sex lololol.. ok.

[rocelot]

You're just going to keep digging that hole aren't you.

[tenofthepeaks]

i'm just stating my opinoin... is there a reason i shouldnlt? or weren't you taught to get on with people? lolol.

[rocelot]

Just because you have one doesn't mean you should say it.

[tenofthepeaks]

Autistic? Figures since your point made no sense

[rocelot]

You really are an idiot.

[tenofthepeaks]

i'm sorry, but then you continue to make me laugh... you attack me and then take time to label me... ok..

[Bluemax]

"Eliot Rodgers is perhaps an extreme example..."
Perhaps? I'd say he is certainly an extreme example, given there are millions of people not getting any, but virtually all of them don't go and kill people. Ironically, I've known quite a few women who thought Elliot was actually kind of attractive. If you read his manifesto, he kind of glosses over the fact that in 5th and 6th grade, there were girls who slow danced with him. There were girls who were physically affectionate with him. His loneliness was a demon of his own conjuring.

Whereas I agree with much of what you have to say, your solutions sometimes border on the absurd.

"Get the fuck over it and do something that makes you happy."
I doubt it's as easy to do as you seem to want to make it. I have a friend, older than myself, who hasn't had sex in almost as long as you have been alive, asker. She recently talked of suicide. Do you think I should just tell her to "Get the fuck over it and do something that makes you happy?" She has a wonderful career, she does do things that make her happy, and yet she still comes up short. No, she doesn't feel entitled to sex, but that does nothing to alleviate the longing she has for it.

"- Don't go for the 9s/10s. Leagues exist, get over it"
She doesn't go for 9s/10s. She goes for people she is attracted to. Should she go for people she isn't attracted to? Do you go for people you're totally unattracted to? What makes you think unattractive people find other unattractive people attractive? 2 million years of evolution has worked so that people find some people attractive, and others not. The same evolution works for the attractive and both the unattractive. Unattractive people don't find other unattractive people anymore attractive than you or I do, tenofthepeaks.

Are you suggesting that unattractive people should NEVER EVER EVER feel any sadness about their plight, ever?

[Bluemax]

And do not misconstrue sadness for entitlement. Whereas I know that moping is, as you say, useless, you do not seem to understand that some sadness and anger at their situation might be inevitable and therefore understandable.

No one I know personally fails to understand that sex isn't a necessity, including my aforementioned friend. However, lack of sex is unhealthy. Humans who have less of it tend not to live as long. The same is true of other primates and dolphins as well. Society has nothing to do with that. Do you think that chimps who are deprived of sex and who start to exhibit health and behavioral problems (and this is a well observed phenomenon) do so because they watched too many movies, saw too many videos, heard too many songs about how they are entitled to sex? I don't think so. I think it's because lack of sex, while not fatal, is unhealthy.

"Change what you CAN change."
Smartest thing you said in the take.

[Bluemax]

Perform this little thought experiment.

Imagine that someone took a blowtorch to your face, thus rendering yourself undesirable to virtually every woman on the planet. It also damaged your speech and your brain, so you aren't a good speaker or thinker. Now the only women available to you are women you aren't yourself attracted to. You don't think you would feel even an atom of sadness or anger at the situation? Do you honestly think you could lead as happy a life as you could if you were desirable to someone you found attractive? Do you honestly think you would never, ever shed a tear?

Furthermore, do you think I should show this take to my friend who was suicidal and tell her, "Ah, it's easy! Just get over it!" How helpful do you think that would be?

[tenofthepeaks]

erm.. yes, get over it...

[tenofthepeaks]

and how is lack of sex unhealthy?

by your reasoning, a peron born with severe disabilities has a right to kill people because he doesn't get sex.. OK, but i don't usually entertain such sociopathic thinking...

[Bluemax]

How is lack of sex unhealthy?
Sex releases endorphins which lower stress. When these endorphins are inhibited or are relatively absent, the neurons in the body lose their sensitivity to them, thus making it harder for the endorphins to have any effect. Regular sex lowers the risk of heart attack. Regular sex lowers anxiety levels. For women, lack of sex can atrophy vaginal muscles. Regular sex boosts immune levels. Regular sex seems to improve our senses, whereas not having it dulls them (a finding found with both animals and humans). Sex balances good to bad cholesterol ratios. People deprived of sex report more difficulty sleeping. Furthermore, masturbation releases SOME of the hormones released in sex, but not all and not at the same levels.

That chimps and gorillas deprived of sex exhibit all kinds of behavioral problems is well known. Furthermore, the introduction of same sex companions often does NOT alleviate these problems. The same is true of dolphins...

[Bluemax]

And do you think that gorillas' and dolphins' behavioral problems when deprived of sex is the result of entitlement issues? Do you think it's from their society telling them they're owed sex? Watching too many Judd Apatow movies? And if apes and dolphins seem to exhibit stress and behavioral problems when deprived of intimacy, why do you believe that humans somehow should be different? This is a major reasoning behind allowing prisoners to have conjugal visits.

"by your reasoning, a peron born with severe disabilities has a right to kill people because he doesn't get sex"
Certainly not. I never said that. I never implied it either. You very incorrectly inferred it. Furthermore, I know people with severe disabilities who have never had sex at all. My brother's friends are (my brother is disabled, but not severely and he was married)...

.. OK, but i don't usually entertain such sociopathic thinking...

[Bluemax]

... Not a one of them has ever construed ANYTHING I've said, and yes I have talked to them about this very issue, to mean "a peron born with severe disabilities has a right to kill people because he doesn't get sex.. " Not once. They are smarter than that, and they're smarter than you.

As for, "erm.. yes, get over it... " being a solution, if you don't have a solution (and frankly "get over it" isn't a solution), then just admit it. But don't fool yourself into thinking that simply saying "erm, yes, get over it.." will somehow make them every bit as happy and fulfilled as I was with my wife. It doesn't. For those who can do nothing about their situation, I don't pretend like I have a solution. I tell them honestly that I don't, because I know "erm, yes, get over it..." is not.

[Bluemax]

Now I previously posed a bunch of questions to you which you never answered. I'll ask again. You can chose not to answer, but this leads me to think you probably have no answers.

Should people go for people they aren't attracted to?
Are you suggesting that unattractive people should NEVER EVER EVER feel any sadness about their plight?
Do you think that chimps who are deprived of sex and who start to exhibit health and behavioral problems (and this is a well observed phenomenon) do so because they watched too many movies, saw too many videos, heard too many songs about how they are entitled to sex?
(now refer to my previous thought experiment)
You don't think you would feel even an atom of sadness or anger at the situation?
Do you honestly think you could lead as happy a life as you could if you were desirable to someone you found attractive?
Do you honestly think you would never, ever shed a tear?

[tenofthepeaks]

erm... all species have different needs. it's one reason why we are species. what is good for chimps cannot be good for us...

[tenofthepeaks]

i don't really care about your questions, since i don't have to really answer you, and i don't care if that bothers you. i don't really know you, so i don't get the issue at hand...

[Bluemax]

Of course all species have different needs. However, many species have strikingly similar needs. Apes and humans have very similar needs.

"i don't really care about your questions, since i don't have to really answer you, and i don't care if that bothers you"
It doesn't bother me. I'm going to take that to mean that you are incapable of answering.

[tenofthepeaks]

i don't know you... your insistence is frankly comical...

and frankly i don't think you want to debate, but just put down my views... lol... i don't get where you are the opinion regulator, but meh... for a middle aged man, you seem comical..

[Bluemax]

If all you have to offer is "you seem comical," and "I don't know you" and "[you want to] just put down my views," I'd say you're the one who is unwilling to debate.

[tenofthepeaks]

lolol... sorry, this was funny... but then i can see you only want to score some points here... lol.. ok.

[OpenClose]

You paint a rather grim picture for guys who struggle in this department.

"You are either lovable, or you should accept that you are going to die alone." is basically what you said.

Then you posted a picture of a "Nerd" and a "Stud".

Not gonna lie, in my experience, the "Nerd" is happily married and the "Stud" is trying to dodge his now-pregnant ex. Not the case every time, but you're really painting a broad brush here.

Also, leagues aren't some 1-dimensional ordeal. I mean, obviously there are extreme cases like handsome CEO's. But if someone is more attractive than you in one way, it doesn't make sense to just bow down and call them a better overall human being. And girls aren't remotely a monolithic group. Unless, of course, you're going to a bar and trying to use pickup lines (gag).

I'm saying this because guys are often trying to put themselves into false heirarchies and putting each other down. Always at each other's throats.

Saying "I should be able to find someone" is not entitlement. And if it is, there is a LOT more entitlement in saying "someone should come to me." And guys are definitely, DEFINITELY not alone in this. Girls all the time say "Why don't any guys like me?" her friends chime in, "Because guys are such shallow jerks and you deserve the best guy in the world."

[tenofthepeaks]

you're saying having a relationship is some absolute to happiness. it's not.

[OpenClose]

Did I imply that? If so, that's not what I meant.

But at the same time, it certainly isn't formulaic like you seem to feel.

Plus, basically every girl I have dated was generally annoyed by male competition. We would join together laughing about stories of guys chest-thumping and trying to be tough, or alpha, or "nice".

How I do agree with you in that relationships work best within the same "league" so to speak. That is, if each party's characteristics balance out, or at least feel balanced to the beholders, there isn't a sense of dominance by one party or subsequent "worthlessness" of the other party. Power dynamics kill relationships.

But again, this is hardly objective. Girls often turn down one guy in favor of another in ways that have little or nothing to do with hierarchy. I've turned down hotter girls in favor of nicer and smarter girls, or girls who I feel more chemistry with.

[OpenClose]

And as for chemistry, there is no single molecule or atom that binds to every other molecule. Each molecule has different properties that allow it to bind with some molecules but not others.

In my case, I'm like a non-polar hydrocarbon, and most of the pop-culture and duckface girls are polar like salt or rust. We don't mix. They need a dude-bro who is "alpha enough" for them. I need a bookworm or a hippie or something. These two types of girls have almost completely incompatible standards.

(Continuing the geeky metaphor, I suppose it is possible for me to end up with one of these girls if it was a threesome and the third party acted as a "detergent". I think the metaphor is quickly breaking down with that...)

[tenofthepeaks]

so you're a nerd... got it...

[OpenClose]

I prefer the term "geek", but same difference as far as you are concerned.

Majored in mechatronic engineering. Minored in math and physics.

[Jersey1]

Gen X'ers always have this defeatist attitude. Everytime I hear the attached song Inthink this is the Gen X anthem, "Waitng on the world to change".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBIxScJ5rlY

This is my anthem and it has served me well as I have succeeded where you would have given up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oZXJD1NVW0

Try a different attitude.

[tenofthepeaks]

yes, this is all about me, and your attempts to read my mind and soul lololol..

But no, my point is to say that some things we cannot always change. it's not defeatism, just fact, wisdom and common sense. a person may be a capable footballer, but never as good as Messi or Ronaldo. He just has to find his niche and do the best he can in it. But then you're presuming I'm saying never strive... er, no. I'm saying that knowing how to strive and knowing one's limitations is best. But nice attempt to read me and impart meaning on my points that I never really intended haha..

Oh, and I think by definition most members here are Generation Y... get with it, dude..

[Jersey1]

At 32 you are on the ragged edge of Gen X. I understand to focus on what you are good at but life has shown me that persistence is key and you message dampens down people's persistence. Teloing guys that only certain gits will get dates isn't right. There are so many girls that would gladly be with a guy who doesn't have momey or looks or whatever. These women aren't perfect either and are longing for someone, at least they can have that together. Knowing your limits is a dangerous thing as your limit is very likely much much higher than you would think, that is a message that has been proven out through history woth so many testimonials by very successful people who were told they would never make it. No one in my school would have guessed that I would have made it to where I am, or my wife who made it with me. Desire, persistence and intellegence about what you are doing are what matter.

[tenofthepeaks]

erm... OK. So I have to accept your points, but you dismiss mine hehe.. Well it's unlikely we'll be able to travel to the middle of the galaxy within the next 100 years, but so what? it's just how it is. Seems you and @KHaskins think i cannot comment here, OK, so I'm a "bad person" for defending myself lolol.. both of you don't seem normal/mentally healthy, but meh..

Though apparently, you can't really discuss things with others, and some may have better breaks or luck than you. But as a man, you get that everybody has the same experiences or chances in life lolol...

[muspelhem_5]

Heartened to see a guy adress entitlement, which I think causes problems for both women and men (it certainly has for me).

I would say the best way to get over it (unless you're completely resistant to learning from experience), is to actually go out there and meet women.

A lot of guys (myself included) seem to be bemoaning what they could have had, or should have had, but never seem to have tested whether their expectations were actually realistic.

I mean, Elliot Rodger just seems to have driven around in his BMW stalking couples. If he had instead actually picked up the courage to get some rejections, he might have grown as a person.

[Bluemax]

This opinion is much more intelligent than the take.

Ironically, as I said, more than a few women I know have told me they think Elliot Rodger was kind of physically attractive. Had he actually pursued women beyond stalking them, he wouldn't have gotten in the predicament he found himself.

[Anonymous]

Lol typical PUA bullshit, trying to get guys who want an ltr with women to "give up" so then their rhetoric becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of only the "alpha males" or them can get women.

[tenofthepeaks]

PUA? not really. but i think long before PUA, it was the case that some men had advantages. But if you never accept there aren't challenges, or that you and every other guy out there has the same chance of getting dates, then fine... oh, and nice attempt to say i cannot hold my opinion loll

[ObviouslyBored]

There are married people on my 600 lb life. Correct who you are on the INSIDE and someone will want you Period. There is no catagory of people no one wantss. Hitler had a lover. Hell Marilyn Manson had 2 wives I think... it is all about who you are on the INSIDE. You may not come across too many people who want you, but someone does. You don't need most people's dating approval you only need one good one.

[GoodDogNigel]

I don't know why people find the fact that Hitler had a chick surprising. He was an exceedingly charismatic leader of a country.

[ObviouslyBored]

He was a racist jackass... not even good looking.

[Ozanne]

Good article, and very necessary in this day and age when people are constantly being told they are worth -whatever- or young people with the prince/princess complex who think they just deserve something because they were brought up to believe that doing nothing to improve themselves will lead to greatness. I also think that the defiance of Marilyn Monroe's quote "Can't handle me at my worst then you don't deserve me at my best" has made (mainly) women all over the world feel entitled to remain awful to people with the reward that they have a good side. People should also stand their ground and decide if that is what they in turn are worth back.

[Bluemax]

"they were brought up to believe that doing nothing to improve themselves will lead to greatness"
Ah, the foolishness of the self esteem movement.

[Squall17]

Whatever happened to being just a good honest person. What's does it mean to I prove yourself exactly. We're you talking about money or status. Please nobody wants a girl that's shallow and lazy herself specially at 40. How bout if somebody finished their degree but can't find work other than crappy minimum wage jobs. Do you really think at all?

[Ozanne]

I think I covered all that in my original response.

[becca123]

I so agree with this. Even on this site, people complain that they can't find someone when the reality is, they can't get with the "10's" in the dating world. Wishing that Latino women would date you, for example, doesn't mean that they will it that they have to because YOU like them. Also, knowing and acceoting your limitations makes dating so much easier. I don't go for 10's, they ate out of my league. I am quite happy down here in the 7 and 8's because historically that is where I have luck.

Great take, but I am sure many people will be angry about it and miss the point.

[Bluemax]

"... people complain that they can't find someone when the reality is, they can't get with the "10's" in the dating world"

The people I know who remain dateless are not really people going after 10s. They're people who can't find someone who is attracted to them WHO THEY FIND ATTRACTIVE. That need not be a 10.

Try my thought experiment I posed to the take owner. Suppose (God forbid) someone blowtorched your face, rendering you undesirable. Now you are a 1. You're not going to get 7s and 8s anymore. You won't even get 5s. You'll get 1s and 2s and a 3 if you're lucky. Do you really think suddenly you'd be happy to date these people when you weren't before? 90% of all people are delighted to get 7s and 8s. Do you really think it's easy to accept being a one or a two?

Unattractive people generally do not find other unattractive people attractive. Would you enjoy dating an someone who makes your skin crawl? What makes you think unattractive people do?

[becca123]

I do take your points.

[becca123]

Whoops hit enter. I think you do make valid points.

[Anonymous]

This is pure bullshit. The problem is that people are stupid. Men and women (particularly women) view themselves to highly, and as such they have a ridiculously high standards when it comes to dating. The world would be a better place once people recognise this simple truth, that they are FAR fro being perfect and should not be extremely picking when finding a partner. But this won't happen, because like I said people are stupid.

[tenofthepeaks]

ok, so humans aren't perfect. any other fresh isights you have?

[tenofthepeaks]

Also, despite your comical anger, I reckon you are irate because you reckon every has the same opportunities in life... be thankful you aren't living in Syria or the Congo, their right to feel aggrieved at life scenarios is greater than yours.

[Opinion Owner]

I am not angry at all, frustrated maybe, but not angry. I just see and tell as it is, and if you don't agree, that's fine. But at the same token, I would suggest that you are blind and like I said before, stupid.

[tenofthepeaks]

well i don't believe that, but there you go...

[Opinion Owner]

FYI, the girls that down voted my comment are mostly the type of girls who are shallow and stupid.

[tenofthepeaks]

what infomation? lol.. i sensed you're angry. that's all, i don't give a damn if you are, since i don't need to be.

[Jackblue]

Take owner I sort of agree with what your saying, but bringing up Syria and the Congo is low. I can assure you that in spite of all the problems going on in those countries there are still plenty of men complaining about not getting female attention there.

[jenn33]

Men gave you up votes and women fve you down voted

[Anonymous]

Jesus christ another one of these alpha male program followers. All because theycwant to get laid. You act like there are rules and terms for freedom. No know your placecand stay there. Thats what they say to poor people so they won't try and better themselves. Youve got no chance so stay there. And all the women that act like this guy is their voice for guys who just want some luck to go their way. The world's honesty is so fucking cruel sometimes. Women let jerk offs like this guy tell them what they should do. Believe it or not there are some people that can't find anyone and part of human life is to procreate and connect with a partner and if they can't do that' then your answer is ''oh too bad suck it up'' Try living it before you make arrogant speeches.

[tenofthepeaks]

who says the point of life is?

[OpenClose]

Right? I've never met a girl worth attracting who actually used the term "alpha" in this sense. I did know a girl who studied animal behavior and primatology, who talked about alphas. Usually followed by "glad humans aren't like that."

[Bluemax]

"who says the point of life is? "
Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace.

[tenofthepeaks]

some scientists who lived long ago? I think this has been a question asked for millennia...

[RationalMale]

If you want to see entitlement, look at women. Sperm banks--female entitlement they should literally be able to pay to have a baby, without a man.

Welfare--quit a bit aimed at women being able to raise kids with tax money from random men.

Obamacare--women cost more to keep healthy than men and live years longer, but feel entitled men should pay more so they don't have to pay as much for their own healthcare.

Abortion "rights"--no responsibility needed. If a man knocks a woman up, well, he shouldn't have had sex if he wasn't ready to be a dad. If a woman sleeps around and gets knocked up, the government funded Planned Parenthood will happily scrape her womb clean for her, she can literally kill off her own offspring rather than have to suffer consequences.

[RestlessYouth_]

LOL you realize you just described having a child as "suffering the consequences" Some guys on this site have some real issues

[missamanda123]

I agree but what happens when you're just not attracted at all to the types of guys who like you? This happens to me a lot. And the type of guys I like tend to not be that into me because I'm not smart, interesting, or biracial looking enough. so i always find myself single. Or I could settle for a guy but that wouldn't be fair

[Bluemax]

A friend of mine is in a similar situation, missamanda123. However, you have an advantage that she no longer has. You are young and AWARE of your situation.

What do you think you could do to increase your attractiveness?

[missamanda123]

I've already lost weight and dress nice.

in my opinion, I think its my personality, it's kinda dull and boring. And I tend to be attracted to guys that have a look or personality most women admire which means i have a lot of competition. I'll notice 5 or 6 other women fancying the same guy that I have a major crush on. It's like I need to go after a guy who isn't as sought after but I have no attraction to them (short, or really overweight guys)

[Bluemax]

Well, the competition is stiff in every league, missamanda123. What you're describing seems to be a difficulty that many encounter.

Now as for being boring, what do you think you could do to make yourself more interesting?

[missamanda123]

I need to get out more and make new friends. Travel a bit so I can have something to talk about.

[Bluemax]

Very wise, missamanda123.

You will note, @tenofthepeaks, that unlike you, she didn't misconstrue ANYTHING I said to mean go out and start murdering people.

[tenofthepeaks]

lolol... sorry, but i'm only reading into what you say...

[Roostah]

Sounds like your chasing after 20% of male that have women on tap. Perhaps these guys will throw you a bone to be their own personal whore for the night. I'm pretty sure the guys you don't find attractive/fancy will change once you hit 30+ and need a beta provider.

[missamanda123]

The guys I don't fancy would be men who don't work or can't hold down a job. So I guess I should settle for them right?

[lifes_curve_ball]

"Don't go for 9s/10s." Bro winners always want the ball. You play to win not play not to lose so how can you say that to people? Always go for the dagger.

[tenofthepeaks]

expect they may not like you... confidence is also knowing your place... lol.. fool.

[lifes_curve_ball]

It doesn't matter whether or not a person may or may not like you, you still go for the dagger. You're not entitled to the person liking you but that doesn't mean you just assume it from the get go. Go for broke and if it doesn't work then move on. To say confidence is going oh 9/10 so I should know my place and walk away is stupid.

[tenofthepeaks]

you lack confidence... go away kindly lolol..

[lifes_curve_ball]

Sure thing bro lol

[TheSpartan]

Of course leagues exist; no one really disputes that. They exist like economic classes do. And, accepting and understanding what leauge you are in is essential, but we aren't bound to leagues. Just like a dirt poor immigrant named John D. Rockefeller became the richest man in world history (worth about $700 billion in today's dollars), an ugly person can become a 8, 9, or a 10--especially in the 21st century, which I'll get to in the next paragraph.

As for changing who you are to become more attractive, nothing is "unchangeable" anymore. With surgery, most which are pretty cheap, one can get jaw and chin surgeries, breast implants, butt implants, hair implants, hip widening, or even height increasing surgery (a guy in New York went from 5'6 to 6'2). Therefore, we can all harnass the traits women value with enough effort and technology.

[Bluemax]

Most of which is pretty cheap? I don't know many people who have thousands of dollars disposable income. Furthermore, many people are not good candidates for cosmetic surgery.

[TheSpartan]

"Good candidates"? What do you mean? And, thousands of dollars isn't that expensive when people blow way more than that on expensive cars and houses.

[Bluemax]

Cars and housing are necessities.

There are a number of things which make people bad candidates for cosmetic surgery. The disfigurement is too great. Their own health puts them at risk so that they will not heal properly from the surgery. The surgery will do little to enhance their appearance. And so on.

I have a friend with FAS who has looked into cosmetic surgery. He has been told by the surgeons that he isn't a good candidate for cosmetic surgery.

[TheSpartan]

Cars and houses are necessities, but not to the extent that we take them. As far as necessities go when it comes to those, people go for luxuries. Plus, people can save up for cosmetic surgeries.

How was your friend not a good candidate?

[tenofthepeaks]

True. But then some things cannot be changed, or at least are difficult to change.

[TheSpartan]

Yeah, some things are difficult to change, but no one needs to be perfect to be attractive.

[Bluemax]

"but no one needs to be perfect to be attractive."

That is one of the smartest things I've heard on GAG in a long time! Very well said!

[TheSpartan]

Lol thanks man!

[Aboredperson]

This is fantastic. Kind of makes me think of this Cracked article I read a while ago. It makes a lot of sense.
www.cracked.com/...-are-trained-to-hate-women.html
Amazing myTake.

[mistninja314]

True but that shouldn't happen if most people are being realistic with themselves. They also seem to forget that their CRUSH could catch feeling for them. If they can say the right words, at the right time right? THOSE words go along with this take

www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a7297-does-the-dating-league-really-exist

[Anonymous]

3.bp.blogspot.com/.../abe-simpson-gif.gif

*phew*

[ArchDruidMordred]

I hate this western concept of "If you're not born with great looks and money than no one will like you".

While I completely agree that no one is entitled to date you, there is a difference between thinking that you are entitled to a woman and wondering where you can improve. Perhaps instead of telling us to live with how we were born and such, we should instead be taught how we can improve ourselves through actions and practice.

[tenofthepeaks]

and desirability is western... OK.

[ArabianPwincess197]

I won't change myself just because a guy wants to. If he wants me, he accepts me the way I am

[tenofthepeaks]

OK... but thanks for moderating how I can express myself or what I can judge or deem lolol..

[ArabianPwincess197]

Sorry what?

[tenofthepeaks]

hehe... you're passively aggressively asserting how I can comment or what I am allowed to comment on.. nice afternoon laugh lol.

[ArabianPwincess197]

Oh I was just stating what I believe. I won't change the way I dress etc for a man. All of those small factors contribute to the individual I am. I don't want to be someone I am not. If I changed myself I'd be a fake version of "me"

[tenofthepeaks]

lololol. no i think you're asserting I'm not supposed to say what I want lol.. OK, I accept the word of some stranger.

[ArabianPwincess197]

I dont understand. I'm telling you this is what I would do/say. Not that you will do this

[tenofthepeaks]

lulz... i doubt that. i comment as i please, and it's kind of baseless to say that I don't lol.

[ArabianPwincess197]

What? I would say what I wrote. I wouldn't hesitate. Why should I change myself for a guy?

[KHaskins]

Take Owner: Change yourself as I say to or GTFO.
Pwincess: I won't change myself because you told me to.
Take Owner: ... STOP CENSORING ME!
Me: 😄😄😂

[tenofthepeaks]

hahahaha... i don't think so, but then continue to try and "censor" people, like i give a shit... I don't get you and your values, but meh, not my issue with Web strangers think or do...

[tenofthepeaks]

err... both of you are passive aggressive, but meh, not my problem..

[KHaskins]

Meh. I just get a kick out of people who can't tell the difference between disagreement and suppression. If a mod popped on here and deleted every word not containing a "U" or "G" from your take, that would be suppression. Also vaguely entertaining. What we have here instead is someone disagreeing with you - which may come as a shock.

[tenofthepeaks]

erm... no, it's just passive aggressiveness on her and your part lolol..

and it's perfectly normal to oppose you and her to say I cannot post here. To say otherwise is pretty retarded. I don't give a shit about your spiritually-derived beliefs, that's all there is to it.

[tenofthepeaks]

and you're essentially saying suppression is good... OK, well I disagree with you, but continue to behave like this in real life, i doubt you'd get what you want in it lololol...

[KHaskins]

Who said you can't post here? All anyone has done is disagree with you.

[KHaskins]

Bit of a persecution complex, there, bub.

[tenofthepeaks]

Ok..

so let me get this straight...

You're some stranger who reckons people online have to agree with the cultural norms you grew up in..

You're trying to tell me that it's 'normal' not to respond if a person or persons say I cannot comment.

You're trying to assert that I cannot laugh, dismiss you, and think your "facts" of life are bullshit.

And you're trying to convert some Web stranger concerning some baseless beliefs you were raised in, or thought in your head lol.

Sorry, dude (s). Not bothered.

[tenofthepeaks]

lolol...

your pathetic attempts to try and read my psychically are nonsense... sorry, but it's just how it goes. But continue to reckon that people can do as they will and never face a reaction.. lololololol... you're a bit mindblind, but that's not my concern.

[KHaskins]

*chews popcorn*

[KHaskins]

*pokes with a stick*

[tenofthepeaks]

ok. so you have some form of autism i presume, since you're insisting i must be good to you... lolol... no thank you, but meh, get tested, dude.

[KHaskins]

I'll keep this up so long as you keep posting paragraph-long screeds in response to the slightest provocation. Makes for cheap entertainment. 😋

*slurps near-empty soda*

[tenofthepeaks]

not provocation, just amusement. i'm amused you try and psychically read me lolol.

[KHaskins]

*tosses kernel of popcorn*

[tenofthepeaks]

haha... well i'm reading you as you do me... i think you probably have many social faux-pas with people, but meh, i've had my fill now. but Mr. Web stranger here is saying people can never defend themselves haha..

[ArabianPwincess197]

@KHaskins -just ignore him

[tenofthepeaks]

lolol... well apparently according to both of you, i have to accept your baseless points.. but OK lol.. had my fill now.

[ArabianPwincess197]

I think you're a little too self obsessed. Take a break from it

[tenofthepeaks]

i don't know what care what that means.. but meh, whatever..

[ArabianPwincess197]

Whatever too!

[tenofthepeaks]

ok... but then you complain when you say i cannot comment lolol.. got it..

[ArabianPwincess197]

When did I say you can't comment. I still don't understand how what I believe for myself affects you?

[tenofthepeaks]

it doesn't... there's no reason it should. but then if you say as such, i defend myself, so be it lol..

[ArabianPwincess197]

I still don't get you

[tenofthepeaks]

well lol... it's just funny how you reckon i cannot ever comment, but that's doesn't seem normal to me...

[ArabianPwincess197]

When did I say you can't comment?

[tenofthepeaks]

hehe... because you and others here are a bit passive aggressive. if you say i cannot comment, there's no reason i cannot respond to that... You're a very subjective person, so i'll desist for now...

[ArabianPwincess197]

What do u mean. I said if a guy said all of that to me, I'd say to him I'm not going to change myself for him. How is that relevant to you?

[tenofthepeaks]

not a matter of relevance, but personal honour lolol... ok, whatever.

[ArabianPwincess197]

But it still doesn't relate to you.

[tenofthepeaks]

erm... i'm not bothered if it does...

[ArabianPwincess197]

Then why are you arguing over it

[tenofthepeaks]

i can argue as i please, it's a free world... just defending myself, since you're saying i'm not allowed an opinion, and i don't frankly get that reasoning..

[ArabianPwincess197]

I wasn't referring to you for goodness sake

[tenofthepeaks]

eh? i don't believe that, but there you go...

[ArabianPwincess197]

I'm not interested in you so why would I be referring to you?

[tenofthepeaks]

because you're trying to silence me.. lolol...

i defend myself when required, but you'll cite some voodoo bollocks about you should/can silence me.. lol.. whatever, i'm not bothered again.

[ArabianPwincess197]

When did I try to silence you?

[tenofthepeaks]

erm.. i don't care about your cultural standpoints.

meh, get with human nature, if you're so "bright", reasoned, "intelligent" and "learned" lolol.

[ArabianPwincess197]

Are you stupid? What has that got with culture you weirdo?

[KHaskins]

Pokes. With. Stick.

[tenofthepeaks]

because this is the factor at hand... good day to you lolol..

[ArabianPwincess197]

What? You're self-obsessed.

[tenofthepeaks]

eh? no, it's your only intent for responding, but i've had my fill now lol.

[ArabianPwincess197]

What - you're really very weird

[tenofthepeaks]

weird people defend their interests.. OK, got it... last time I will comment now.

[ArabianPwincess197]

So you're weird -cuz u keep commenting my views are relevant to u

[tenofthepeaks]

what's your basis for that reasoning? I only know how/why you commented initially, and I'm defending myself lol...

[tenofthepeaks]

but all i got from this was that you can say i cannot comment, but then I have to take it lololol.. OK. I'll tell my psychologist parents and friends this, and await their laughter...

[ArabianPwincess197]

I don't get you. What I said was about myself how does it involve you lol

[tenofthepeaks]

because what i do here seemingly offends you, but i'm not bothered lol. l

[ArabianPwincess197]

I'm not offended. I'm just wondering how what I said is relevant to you!

[tenofthepeaks]

i don't believe that... i think my making opinions offends you based on your values/psychology..
i don't care if it does..

[ArabianPwincess197]

They haven't offended me. Why would they? They are your opinions not relevant to me just like mine aren't relevant to you