The sucker punch, Cowardly or Smart fighting?

[Cosytoasty]

So i watched a fight earlier in a bar. A lone guy was moving in on a couple of girls in a group of friends, one of the men in that group took exception to this and asked him to go away (several times). The newcomer refused and got right up into his face, group protector put his drink down slowly and then dropped him in one hit.

My colleagues were split on it, some of them think it's cowardly others think it's justified and actually a smart way to fight, "It's not a boxing match, it's a fight".

What do you think?

Smart move (fighting to win)

Cowardly (I let the other man swing first)

[Bananaman177]

In your scenario, it was cowardly, but probably necessary.

Yes, if you know where things are going, if you KNOW someone is about to attack you, you should try to hit first.

syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/.../...n-3.jpg

Most of the time however, most people who suckerpunch somebody do so because they want to punch somebody and they let fly the first chance they get, because they're always looking for that chance.

[Cosytoasty]

I don't think you ever quite *know* if someone is going to swing for you. A guy mouthing off in your face (without raising his hands) is 50/50, you could easily back off from that and nothing further happens, he could also easily be the one to go for it while he thinks you are not ready.

You could easily say not cowardly (justified), but not necessary lol.

Fwiw in my personal opinion, the newcomer wasn't going to attack anyone and was just being mouthy, but I don't blame the guy for resolving the situation that way either.

[Bananaman177]

Well, if somebody points a finger at you, is screaming, and keeps leaning towards you or stepping towards you menacingly, I feel you are NOT obligated to give that person the benefit of the doubt, especially a total stranger.

If somebody's acting crazy, you have every right in the world to treat them like they're crazy and you wouldn't owe them any apologies for hurting them if they were threatening you in any way first.

[iFarted]

there's no rules in real life fighting. It isn't an organized fight event for entertainment..
What if the same guy decided to be "fair" and started beating the strangers ass and the stranger decided to wield a weapon?

[Izumiblu]

Guys are fucking stupid. Like think with the head that's not in your pants...

[Bananaman177]

It doesn't matter how smart you are, if any caveman can crack your skull with a tree branch, guess what? You just became the world's deadest genius.

Not all guys are cavemen, but enough are that every guy should be ready for caveman shit to go down at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

[Izumiblu]

@Bananaman177 you just agreed with me

uncalled for and he could have gotten thrown in jail for that sucker punch.. my guy is the same way... i don't like it cuz I'm afraid I'm gonna be bailing him out one of these days

[FýrdracaDócincel]

The guy wasn't welcome and refused to leave. Someone had to do something eventually. Law and social norms can't ward off everything.. sooner or later people like you will need to understand this.

[Izumiblu]

@FýrdracaDócincel nonsense, you call the bouncer or tell the bar... or if you are a real man, and actually have some intelligence then you provoke the other guy into striking first so that way you have a legal position for doing what you are doing

[FýrdracaDócincel]

Getting others to fight your battles for you.. wasting time on the problem when you can just take care of it right then and there. That doesn't earn you respect.

[Izumiblu]

@FýrdracaDócincel yeah.. ending up in jail or being afraid to protect yourself from possible legal outcomes does... ok.. whatever... you must have pretty low expectations of the people around you if that's what gets you're respect

[FýrdracaDócincel]

My expectations of others are ludicrously low but that's beside the point.

There are times when handling this stuff on your own is viable.. and there are times when it's stupid. What matters is twofold: The mental capacity to decide if it's worth it to crack down on situations with your own two hands (prime example a bar versus an airport), and the ability to do so if it is worth it.

[Izumiblu]

@FýrdracaDócincel Think about what you just said, rather than be smart and humiliate the guy into leaving or provoking him into doing something so you can act in self defense, you are just gonna hit him so you can get arrested for assault. Now, any guy that has proven himself doesn't need to get caught up in this petty shit and can save it for something important, ergo you just have someone else deal with the small stuff. But if it hurts your sense of pride to do that then at least deal with it like i said so you don't end up getting thrown in jail. As a woman, id look at any guy that did what this guy did and think yeah, you might be full of bravado, but you are either stupid or when it comes right down to it, a coward because you knew the possible repercussions but were afraid to deal with it that way cause you might not be able to handle it... Just sayin. That's how id look at a guy.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

Fights happen in places like that all the time and people generally don't get arrested.. just kicked out.

How does handling it yourself make you a coward?

[Izumiblu]

@FýrdracaDócincel It only takes the one guy who ended up on his ass to say "assault" and call the police. While a lot of people get away with it, some don't. That's just life. Someone who is prepared for that will know how to deal with it without just throwing it to chance and hoping for the best.

And how is it cowardice? I didn't see not to deal with it on your own, i said deal with it in a way where you are within the law. THat is, get the other guy to act first. So any guy that doesn't choose this path is either saying they don't know they could end up being arrested for assault or, they know but are afraid to get the other guy to act first preferring to take the cheap shot and the risk. I'm saying, that a guy who is "all that" will know the situation and be able to handle himself when the other guy tries something. Its that simple.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

"or, they know but are afraid to get the other guy to act first preferring to take the cheap shot and the risk. I'm saying, that a guy who is "all that" will know the situation and be able to handle himself when the other guy tries something. Its that simple."

This whole idea of "real men would let him swing first because he isn't afraid of getting hit" has always been funny to me. Why should we have to waste time proving that we aren't afraid of getting hit if we could just nip it in the bud right then and there in half the time and with half the energy?

[Izumiblu]

@FýrdracaDócincel
really, are you not getting this? The whole point here of getting him to act first is to get yourself out of legal jeopardy... its not a difficult concept to grasp, and yet you are still boiling this down to some imaginary battle of ego and little Richards... you just proved my entire point. Instead of thinking about the whole picture, in your mind I've made it some judgment about who is the bravest... im telling you. As a guy you are supposed to think with your big head. If you aren't big enough to handle it the way that gets respect for being a big tough guy then go tell someone who can so that way you don't end up in jail.

[Bananaman177]

I agreed with the facts, but not your interpretation of them.

[EpicDweeb]

If a fight is going to happen, it's wise not to prolong it if possible. There's nothing cowardly about not wishing to fight. It's not some match that is meant to test each fighter's skill, it's a fight and who wins is the only thing that matters. (That and not committing a crime by killing them or something along those lines).

I'm not strong enough to take someone out in a single strike so if I fight, I can't simply sucker punch a guy to end the fight before it starts. I'm forced to wait and to let him make the first more so that I can counter. That, however, is simply a matter of personal fighting style/preference.

[PoliceLivesMatter]

That's a coward right there. More importantly, what was the justification of that punch? Completely unjustified. That's insane. Weak man that guy who punched is. What was the reason for the punch? If you're in war, of course striking first is important or if you're dealing with a known hostile. This situation was definitely not that.

[Cosytoasty]

I think the justification (I wouldn't quite call it that either) would be that he failed to leave the group alone when asked several times, calmly. He then starting becoming threatening and was right up in the guy's face. About as far down the provocation line as you could get without actually throwing the first punch basically.

A different man might have called security and turned the other cheek. I guess it's very situational between being the smart move and a cowardly one... this is right on the fence (which is why I thught it would be interesting to ask here 😜).

[PoliceLivesMatter]

Oh well, your description above wasn't too in detail. Legally, speaking, it would be hard to prove that punch was justifiable. Really would. That man who was approaching the group of women probably just wanted to flirt with them and wasn't being threatening at all. Maybe annoying, not threatening. I still can't believe that he got punched for that. Seemed like a 0 to 100 real quick.

[Blueberry_Spicehead]

In the situation given a pinch at all was not needed. However, of you are in a pinch where blows are inevitable (being threatened) then a sucker punch is usually the best opening move (especially if you're outnumbered.) Generally best not to get in those situations if you can help it though.

[MrOracle]

When you are in a fight, the ONLY objective is to win, and if you can't do that, it's to escape with minimal injury. There is no "honor" in a bar fight or a street fight.

The smart thing is to avoid a fight if you possibly can, but if you must fight, you want to do whatever it takes to end the fight quickly and go home.

[Alessus]

I mean in my country, Finland, the guy who sucker punched would most likely be arrested and charged with assault, as while the other guy did provoke him, in the eyes of the law, that's not enough reason to use physical force. So in my country, exceedingly stupid to sucker punch someone unless he was holding a weapon of some sort, then it would be acceptable. So I'd say by default I'd say option B.

[MackFreeze]

Really depends, if he isn't threatening you or those you love's lives and he has a physical advantage to you it would be considerable to do a sucker punch. However this is very situational and should be used as a last resort. Hitting first Is what you don't want to do because of legal issues however if it's life or death, go for it.

[JohnDoe3000]

Smart if it's self-defense, especially if you're outnumbered and cornered (if you're outnumbered and not cornered the smart thing to do is to try to escape). But here the guy throwing the punch had multiple guys with him and only faced one guy who we don't even know would have resorted to violence in the first place, so it's kinda cowardly.

[TripleAce]

I don't think a hit like that is safe to the other

So many things can go wrong with just one knock out punch
There is not need to even hit him you guys are more in numbers

[Cosytoasty]

You are right, the guy was carried out to an ambulance, I think he was breathing because nobody did CPR but he was out cold.

(Btw it was my group involved, we were watching from the next table lol)

[TripleAce]

It was your group involved or wasn't?

Literally one surprised hit can do a lot of damage is by chance it's in the right spot... people have easily died off just one hit...
Teeth break off, costing thousands just to fix... noses break... concussions... it's a bad situation

I understand sometimes it's needed but when younger I use to hang around idiots that use to start shit just for shits and giggles... bah lol

[Cosytoasty]

*wasn't my group* sorry, autocorrect.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

I don't see it as cowardly because it was already made perfectly clear to the guy that he wasn't welcome.

Had everyone at the table been super passive-aggressive about it and somehow hoped that he'd "take a hint," then I would say it was cowardly because that situation has room for misunderstanding, and thus could have been solved without escalation.

But no, he had his chance to swallow the pride and walk away.. and he paid for it.

[Outofthegrey]

Never confuse a fight with combat. Honor is for fights, combat is survival.

Cheap shots don't matter, biting doesn't matter, permanent damage doesn't matter. Do what wins.

[mattmanyah]

I'm a small guy I end fights quickly or get ended I see all fights as survival and nothing less so everything goes

[Waffles731]

if you are going to have to fight, my parents told me that you do everything you can, there is no such thing as fighting fair (that's the lecture you get when you're parents are both ex-military)

[John_Doesnt]

According to the way of the ninja "cowardly" is just a smarter way of winning. Some people are jealous of those smarter than them so they make up words like "cowardly" and "sucker punch".

[dropkicknj13]

what you've described is not really a sucker punch, the new guy was just an idiot lol

[Taco80]

what would you expect to happen? I don't really feel like it was even a sucker punch.

[Anon-ymous1]

It's cowardly bullshit. And an assault charge. If you want to fight a guy, don't be a pussy and assault him without him having any clue that you're about to do so... that simply makes you a bitch.

[Anonymous]

Smart it would be much funnier if you kicked the between the balls and asshole forcing them to shit there pants

[SkateFastEatAss]

It honestly depends on the scenario.

[BronzedAdonis]

it efficient

[Ryno13]

fight to win.