Do you think the way men go from nice to hostile when they find out a girl is trans is indicative of men only caring about women because of vaginas?

[Anonymous]

For example in the story above, this girl is trans and she was seeing a guy who was constantly wanting to date and see her. She eventually told him she was trans to get rid of him and he goes from lovely dovey, I want to see you to hostile in 100. In addition to that, he tries to threaten her by outing her to the entire town and when she went to the gym yelled loudly and told everyone she was a man and even attempted to have her thrown out.

Now, there are many stories of men negative attitude towards transwomen with them going from being very kind to total monsters towards them when they find out. In addition, even on gag many men on her refer to transwomen as "it" or refer to them as mentally sick and try to treat them as subhuman.

And the only difference between transwoman and CIS is a natural vagina. So can male attitude towards transwomen and hostility in general be a clear indicator that the prior motive for most men being nice to women is because they have a vagina and men just pretend to be really nice to get access to it for reproduction and sex?

YES

NO

Updates

+1 y

This is not about dating transgender women or forcing straight men to date transwomen. This is about men going completely psycho and aggressive when the girl does not have a vagina.

Updates

+1 y

Trans women do not pretend to be women, they consider themselves women. Also, seeing how violent men get when transwomen reveal they are trans they are justified in not giving information immediately until they know who they are dealing with. Lastly, unless a transwoman is going to sleep with you then she does not need to reveal her status as trans. Do you think a woman you come up and flirt with needs to tell you right away she is HIV+?

[MrOracle]

No, it's because no one wants to be deceived.

I have ZERO interest in males, even if they've been surgically altered to appear female. And no amount of surgery or hormones will make a man a female, or a woman a male. While I support your right to do as you wish with your body, it doesn't obligate me to like it.

There are plenty of people who are attracted to trans folks. I'm not one of them, and I suspect that neither are the majority. As a trans person, you should respect that and be up-front about things. I'm not someone who would be hostile or violent, but some people would be (right or wrong), so you are taking a foolish risk by not being up-front.

But the big takeaway is: just because you alter your body to appear as the opposite gender does NOT obligate anyone to be attracted to you. If you believed otherwise, you were/are mistaken.

[Asker]

I'm not trans.

[MrOracle]

When I said "you", I didn't mean, YOU, the asker, specifically - I meant "anyone who this would apply to". I'll try to make that clearer in the future.

[MrOracle]

Re: your update -

Men don't care what plumbing some random person has. They DO care if a trans person pretends to be a woman when they were born a man and engages them in a romantic or sexual way. That's deception, and no one wants to be deceived.

A trans "woman" is NOT a woman, and that's never going to change. No amount of political correctness is going to change that.

[MrOracle]

"Trans women do not pretend to be women, they consider themselves women."

That may be, but that does not make them women. And that's the root of this problem: WANTING to be something doesn't make you that thing.

Otherwise, THIS guy would be a lizard:



And this woman would be a cat:



The man believes he's a lizard, and the woman believes she's a cat. They've both had cosmetic surgery and other alterations. Did that make the guy reptile, or the woman a feline? No.

Trans surgery and hormones are the same thing: it may change your outward appearance, but it does not make you the opposite sex. That's reality. Anyone who believes otherwise is deceiving themselves, and may go on to deceive other people - some of whom aren't likely to take the deception well.

[theharlequin]

'And the only difference between transwoman and CIS is a natural vagina.'

Wrong. How about genetics? How about fertility? How about the way they process information? How about the way they relate to the world?

You are the one who has reduced women to nothing but a vagina here.

[Anonymous]

No, because having a vagina not makes every men to care about you. There are many other things men search in women.

On the other hand, some people really want to experience pregnancy (of themselves for women or their partner for men). Other people just can't understand why someone would not enjoy their own body as it is and assume that someone who has gone through that experience must have a lot of traumas and issues, therefore must be a complicated person. People tend to avoid complications.

[Opinion Owner]

With the upload, I don't see beign hostile is justified in any case. I understand a sudden disinterest, but not beign hostile. I never had to deal with this situation, so it's hard to specify when to tell, but surely someone should tell if they are sure they want something with that person. Also feel that person should test a bit the other person talking about a related topic, so that way can predict if the reaction is going to be awful or not. In case it feels it's going to be awful start to ignore him slowly and show disinterest. In case it feels he's not going to be hostile, tell.

[Anonymous]

it's more like he felt betrayed, some how scammed or lied to.
i know i'd be shocked if a guy i was into told me he was trans... it'd take time to process because it's still a new concept to me.

especially with men who never want to be perceived as gay - they don't know how to handle the fact that the woman they were so into used to be a man. so that makes him feel dumb or attacked for ignorant reasons

[hellionthesagereborn]

No, but your question is absolutely a sign of how incredibly sexist you are. I mean can you say anything good about men or are we all just pieces of shit? Sounds like you see men as a thing, less then a thing really. As for him (this one man, not all men (Straight men are the biggest consumers of transsexual porn so clearly its not all men)), its because he felt humiliated that he thought she was a woman and developed a romantic attraction only to find out she wasn't. That messes with a persons head, their perception of themselves and everything else, so he freaked out because his world and his perceptions where completely destroyed. Is his behavior acceptable? No, but his feeligns are understandable. In fact if he had known from the beginning their is a good probability that his reaction would not have been the same, in fact their is a good chance that he would either have moved on our in fact continued to persue her. Regardless your question is incredibly sexist and your contempt and dehumanization of men is disgusting and I really wished that we lived in a society that cared enough about men to actually be bothered by it, but sadly we don't so the only thing I can do is point out how disgusting your views of men are and hope that you will some how reconsider your opinion of men and actually see us as people (you won't though).

[englisc]

No shit men go for women because they have vaginas. That should be obvious. We're straight. We don't want to have sex with a man, even one who has had surgery and hormone treatment to look like a woman.

They get angry because they feel like they've wasted their time on a lie. You say that a trans woman doesn't need to tell the guy straight away - they do if they want to avoid such a hostile response. If that trans-woman were to make that clear from the start she wouldn't get that hostility.

For what reason would she hide it unless to try to reel the guy in before telling him this? Letting him take her on a bunch of dates, spending time, developing feelings, only to drop it on him later? This is misleading no matter which way you put it.

[StAndReas]

"Trans women do not pretend to be women, they consider themselves women." Biology and most straight cis men consider trans women as men. The difference is not just the natural vagina, but the entire reproduction system.
Here is the thing, straight cis-male are looking for physiological women and not for someone with female "gender identity". Trans "women" are totally aware of that. So when they imitate aspects of biological women and don't disclosure their trans status upfront, they are trying to trick men.
It is totally normal to go hostile, when you realize a biological man is trying to trick you in homosexual activity (keep in mind that gender does not equal sex and that it would be a same-SEX/homo-SEXual-relationship).

[capncool]

Before I state my opinion I want to make it clear from the story in the video the guy sounds like a complete ass and he's definitely in the wrong. I personally don't have a problem with transgender women but I wouldn't want to date one. I would certainly want to know if she's a transgender before I sleep with her or date her, and if I found out after the fact I would definitely be upset because I'd feel like I'd been lied to. I'd definitely call her out but I wouldn't get psycho and aggressive, nor would I act like the asshat in the story did.

[AlexanderBrunnrgaard]

No. It's indicative of common sense that transsexualism is a mental disorder, and men have no interest nor is capable of desiring such a person.
It doesn't matter if it's not politically correct according to many people today to be against it, a lie does not become truth just because it is accepted by a majority.

[hammeronfire]

not even gonna watch the video
guys who like girls won't want to be with a guy who thinks he's a girl no matter if she got a fake vagina or not. I've got nothing against trans people some of my friends are trans, but thats just the way it is and you can hate me for saying it all you want, but its the truth. men who like women, dont like men pretending to be women.

[hammeronfire]

update response
you're not a girl if you don't have a vagina
yes its illegal to not tell someone you have hiv or any other std if you are planning on having sex with them
and yes, you should have to reveal you are trans because some people are not into that

[Asker]

"you're not a girl if you don't have a vagina"

So ignorant. So i guess women born with ambiguous genital or intersex female aren't real girls to you then?

[hammeronfire]

thats different than being born with a dick

[hammeronfire]

let me put it this way,
if you were born with XY chromosomes, you are a boy. you can be trans, but you are trans. guys who like people who have XX chromosomes won't want to be with someone who has XY chromosomes.

[OnlyYouKnowThat]

"And the only difference between transwoman and CIS is a natural vagina."

Along with ovaries, a uterus, the ability to menstruate, hormonal differences, chromosomal differences, they have on average less skeletal muscle mass, and due millions of years of evolution they think differently to men and tend to have different preferences. Men and women complement each other and that is why men want real women, not to mention the fact that men cannot reproduce with another man.

[FrenchyRomain]

what the hell? NO
men are nice to WOMEN in order to get into either her panties OR a relationship. Men who want women are by definition heterosexual (straight) they are interested and turned on by A VAGINA... if you are a trans woman and you still have a dick... HE WILL NOT WANT YOU BECAUSE HE ain't GAY
how is this so hard to understand

[name_is_eric]

That's not a woman, that's a man pretending to be one.
Responding with hostility, after being deceived, is natural and to be expected.

REAL WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS.
REAL WOMEN ARE BORN AS FEMALES.
It's not hard to understand!

[AmtgardJean]

It is because they are straight and do not want to be with men no matter if they have had breast implants and hormone shots. If we are straight we do not want penises.
Also though if you ask me to call you a woman I will call you that your beliefs do not make you what you believe you are and straight men do not want to be with men.

[Anonymous]

No it’s because (these men) think trans women are men. They were attracted to a trans woman. They think she’s a man. That makes them homosexual. That is unacceptable. Therefore rage.

I think you can argue that most men wouldn't date if it weren’t for sex but that does r explain the anger you’re describing.

[Giggletr0n]

Yeah sounds about right for the majority. I mean sex is a very low priority in my life (for a number of reasons) so I pay attention to women as strictly friends so what they have swinging or not between their legs is practically a non-issue for me. I am certainly not opposed to dating a tranny but she has to not have the dick simply because I am not in ANY way interested in penis, but I would quite happily be friends with a tranny with a dick just not lovers.

[Anonymous]

End of the day deciding to be with someone or not is all personal choice, can't blame someone for how they feel there. If someone who's trans waits a long while to reveal what's up I'd probably feel a bit hurt or lied to regardless of any good reasons they did hide it. If someone reacts in a hostile way outside of just being annoyed or a bit grumpy about it if they're no longer interested then they're probably a tosser.

[Anonymous]

No, f*ck the Trans community, they are a lower class of people. They have seen hatred since they existed and will continue to into the future for a reason, it is justified. Has nothing to do with the fact that men only appreciate women for vaginas and sex.

[DDpsy]

Normal men do care about women mostly about vaginas and those vaginas have to be natural. Contrary to popular belief normal men care about reproduction.

On the other hand yes trans people should make it very clear about who they are from the start. It is hard but they should understand that it is essential for their safety. I also agree with her the response of that shithead was insane.

[esotericstory]

Why would I invest resources romantically in a person I can't reproduce with anyway. The fallacy of your reasoning lies in the notion that you think men and women have only one difference and that's genitals, while there are several thousands of differences already documented by science.

[esotericstory]

Comparing being trans to HIV+ does not do any justice to transgenderism.

[Belgie]

"the only difference between transwoman and CIS is a natural vagina"

That is insanely inaccurate and makes me want to dismiss everything you say out of hand.

[Anon-ymous1]

I think this doesn't matter; if the guy doesn't want to date someone trans, then the guy doesn't want to date someone trans. Period. Just like if he did want to, that would be perfectly fine too. Period.

[Anon-ymous1]

... What the hell does "when the girl does not have a vagina" even mean? How is she a girl if she doesn't have a vagina?

[Nachowedgie]

This is liberal logic dude xD

[Anon-ymous1]

@Nachowedgie Huh?

[Nachowedgie]

"How is she a girl if she doesn't have a vagina?"

Liberals seem to think you don't be a vagina from to be a girl xD

[Nachowedgie]

From birth*

[Anon-ymous1]

@Nachowedgie That has nothing to do with "conservative" or "moderate" or "liberal." Political labels are meaningless. It simply has to do with common sense.

[Nachowedgie]

It's come from that crowd dude

[Anon-ymous1]

@Nachowedgie I don't care who it comes from.

[Nachowedgie]

Well everyone else does

[jacquesvol]

@Anon-ymous1 Some girls are born without a vagina: www.issm.info/.../

[Anon-ymous1]

@jacquesvol Yes... I don't think we're referring to a case of that-- a disorder which affects less than one-tenth of one percent of the population.

[Nachowedgie]

An exception isn't a spectrum

[Anonymous]

No, it's indicative of the fact that men like women, and they don't like men who pretend to be women.

[Opinion Owner]

It's not about vaginas. It's about being deceived by a man pretending to be a woman.

[thebigc]

First, presenting yourself as something you're not seems wrong to me. Second, if I'm never going to be able to have a family that is a big deterrent to me.

[thebigc]

Update: I think you have a right to be pissed when you find out your lover was lying to you and pretending to be something they are not even in a vague way.

[thebigc]

Second update: I have no problem if they are trying to be a friend and they think they are a woman. However, dating brings a different set of standards forward. This is not unlike asking what faith someone is and not wanting to date them because of a different religious identity.

[Asker]

How many people do you know ask people about their religion on dates or feel the need to tell someone their religgious belief?

[thebigc]

All of them. If you want a relationship with someone, it's a normal question. However, asking if someone is trans isn't really on the list for many people as it is such a new concept.