
Why are more men these days "effeminate" and not so manly as compared to men years ago?


When do women admit emancipation and freedom to dress?
The fact that some of you do not like that men dress nylons, which are also produced for men since 1974, already in the former GDR. So think about your debility and especially women. Women think about yourself, because you yourself have discussed the complete clothes closet with us! And nobody is puzzling about wearing pants !! .. Nobody's blaming you for it, laughing... if we acted like you, men on the street will treat you the same way, ... mock and point at you with your fingers that you're dressed like men and that you are perverse or mannequins in men's clothing. Your comments are just about your character and stupidity. I am not surprised by the idiom because of the rule about the history of dressing, they know nothing at all who first wore stockings and when women started wearing pants, etc., but you women, if you want to criticize someone, also study history and then write embarrassing comments because your opinions they are more primitive than in the Middle Ages and have no logic.
Feminine selfishness, recklessness and arrogance make me incredibly dialect, and that women think that they can only wear whatever they want, as well as male things. After all, nothing happens... I am a woman... but when a man does it, there is a fire hnet on the roof that as we dare to wear something worn by women !!! suits more. And who doesn't like it to jump me... you know what. When women can be we men. And you women have only one option, ... to respect it. Have you been thinking about why stockings are calling stockings? ... so kindly study the history of stocking, who wore them, first and erased, etc. They beat it. At present, women have discussed the complete clothes closet, including action underwear. And the men take part in the women's wardrobe. And what is the reaction of most women? .. protest and write hate speeches, taunts and insults under videos and articles !!! Women can be me because we are women. You men can only wear what women give me, we will let you and suggest it. Otherwise, you are men of refugees, freaks, fetishists and psychopaths. When will women's oppression and fashion dressing end? Are we going to see men end to end women's privilege in fashion? Women need to realize that there are men in the world who are nervous about classic and boring suits, and that even men have the right to diversity, not just women !!! Evidence, url links, that I'm not making up.
Because Western society upholds femininity as the epitome of human evolution and masculinity as the antithesis of morality. This is ironically as women adopt more masculine roles and masculine energy for ambition and drive to succeed. So it's not only men getting more feminine; it's women getting more masculine. Which would be fine, if it was balanced properly.
This isn't only an opinion of mine. It's fact at this point. The American Psychological Association recently came out with a statement saying "masculinity is a mental disorder."
Christina Hoff Sommers predicted a lot of what's going on in Western society now with "The War on Boys" book she released in the 90s. She's a feminist, so no one get your panties in a bunch. Granted, she is not your typical 3rd wave feminist. Having two sons, she's naturally concerned about their future.
The positive aspects of masculinity aren't talked about as much anymore: protecting, independence, courage, risk-taking, heroism, etc. So if kids grow up only hearing about how masculinity results in violence and oppression, naturally they're going to gear more towards the feminine, right?
It's an issue of balance. You see the reverse in Latin America, where femininity is looked down on as inferior. The result there is abject violence and abject violence directed towards women significantly more than other places.
The result here is the emasculation of men. Which has a host of side-effects, as well. Particularly for romantic relationships. And certain social side effects.
We're two parts to the same whole. We need each other, and we need to be balanced properly. Too much femininity is a bad thing; too much masculinity is a bad thing.
Great answer and (sadly) so true. Wasn't aware of the APA crap, though (since my wife is a counselor and I usually hear stuff from her), but there it was. According to the American Psychological Association (APA), being a traditional man is now considered on par with a mental disorder.
" For the first time ever, the APA has issued a set of guidelines for how to approach men and boys, specifically, within a counseling practice. The new APA protocols for mental health professionals working with men and boys--released in August and available to read in their entirety in a document titled APA Guidelines for the Psychological Practice with Boys and Men--were recently summed up on the APA’s website by the statement that "research finds that traditional masculinity is, on the whole, harmful.” "
I'm a feminist but I say that they're less masculine because of the feminism movement where women can take on traits that are seen as masculinity and men have less responsibility (such as paying some on a date, etc) . Every movement and change has its positives and negatives
Answer my question please
Guy keeps Ignoring me then come Back. What should I do? ↗
You mean more manly like these guys from many years ago?



Opinion
100Opinion
I think there were a few back in the day.
Also, that men wore high heels first not women
It was otherwise deemed sexist.
Women today, at least young women, have a different aesthetic appreciation of men. Both in the West and East, women are becoming increasingly fond of effeminate men rather than masculine men. The trend is most evident among male pop stars and male characters in popular TV plays in various countries.
This seems to go against common sense. According to evolutionary psychology, women are supposed to fall for masculine men. Masculinity conveys the message of more power, a greater possibility of survival and better access to resources, indicating better life guarantee for women who have to conceive and raise children.
A research by New York University and Princeton University in 2011 showed that the long-term evolutionary "instinct" was changing gradually. Researchers showed more than 1,000 facial images of the opposite sex to male and female participants - the pictures had been airbrushed to make them look either more effeminate or masculine. It turned out that men and women both have fondness for the feminine facial images of the opposite sex, suggesting masculine men are not as popular as before among women.
The results go against the traditional view of evolutionary psychology, according to which masculine men should be more popular. Researchers say the study indicates women's preference when it comes to men no longer relies on simple evolutionary concepts; they show more modern characteristics.
So why is women's aesthetic appreciation of men changing in modern times? A study in the US covering 4,800 white women in their 20s provides the reasons for women's changing appreciation: progress in the medical field and improvement in health levels. In areas where people are generally in good health and with higher medical standards, women like effeminate men more. In areas with relatively low-level medical facilities, women favour masculine men more.
The conclusion is easy to understand: In a comparatively safe and stable society in which health is not a huge threat to the survival and raising of children, masculinity - which implies health, strength and power - is not so important to women.
In fact, masculinity means a high level of testosterone, which could make women feel insecure instead. Studies show that men with high testosterone levels are more likely to divorce, run away from home and be prone to domestic violence than men with low testosterone levels. On the other hand, women suppose that effeminate men are more considerate and caring. All these show that there are complicated social transformations behind women's preference for men.
Another reason for the change could be the increasing equality between sexes. With economic development and popularity of gender equality, women are making increasingly more contributions to and sharing more responsibilities of society. Both sexes can freely develop their individuality despite traditional gender restrictions. As the number of "tough guys" gradually reduces, women's preference also changes accordingly.
I believe young men are too effeminate, as a result of family breakdowns, divorce 50% Of all marriages, has led the sons to grow up without a father figure. The mothers are over mothering their sons. If it is a difficult Mother-son relationship, the son will be even worse off. In my experience mothers can push these sons away from women and become GAY. This gay behavior will just drive him further away from women. SORRY LADIES these CAUSUAL facts are all too real. Then the son starts getting a friendly male that is older, and gay then seduces son. The older gay guy is usually quite well. Gay men don't want to seduce a woman, it is too expensive and time-consuming. I have been married for 20 years, the wife does not realize that a man needs as much sex as possible. women have always used sex in her power struggle with her husband. If there is no or little sex before you get married, I would leave that woman. What's the point in being married, divorce her and find a woman that can fulfill your needs. I did not get married to a friendly companion, I married MY WIFE
Then explain why men wore high heels first not women?
"become gay"
Are they drinking the frog water?
Because of feminism / misandry / liberalism dominating society. Society sees being manly as a bad and dangerous thing. That being manly means you're violent, a rapist, and plain toxic. So loser men who listen to that crap follow the orders and become feminine. And manly men and boys get punished and abandoned for being their natural selves. All these modern movements are destroying society. There are more single moms than ever because of misandry and #MeToo sh*t. If we can turn things back to the way things were in the 90's and earlier, everything would be fixed. We need more republicans / conservatives in power again.
So i see a lot of stuff about feminism and similar stuff but tbh im pretty sure that its because guys are more accepted as not having to be extrenly manly, there has always been a boundary with men about not being able to express feelings or emotions such as saddness or love and the such and as that is torn down with more gay men coming into the spotlight it makes non homosexual men realize that always putting on a mask of manliness usually ends up with saddness and selfhatred one of the reasons the suicide rate of men is so high. But what do i know im just a stupid teen
Wow. . , that is an amazing answer.
So what do you think being a man is all about?
What Are Masculine Traits? ↗
There are masculine men. They have their own opinions and beliefs and those opinions and beliefs may not match yours. They probably don't want to have deep emotional conversations. They won't go with you to feminist rallies or wear vagina hats.
There are feminine men. They will listen to you. They won't always stand up for themselves. They won't speak over you, but they may not challenge your beliefs either. They may be willing to go to feminist rallies and wear vagina hats.
One isn't good, one isn't bad, they're just different.
If you want a masculine man, date a masculine man. If you want a feminine man, date a feminine man.
But don't complain about the feminine man not being masculine enough and the masculine man not being feminine enough. Men aren't perfect.
Which is good, because women aren't perfect either.
Because people are finally easing up on boys and men about what makes a man a man. Of course, most men 27ish or older are going to turn up their noses at that, claiming that it's wrong. Fortunately, there are a lot of smart people out there who realize it's not wrong, it's just different. I say, if you wanna act like a "man's man," great. I'll just be here expressing my feelings, telling people I love them rather than not doing so, for fear of others opinions, and directing those natural energies into beating women and drinking to drown my "shame."
Well society has been changing a lot. Back then it was kind of frowned upon to be a homosexual so every man was portraying to be the tough guy. Not only that a lot of men these days grew up without a father figure, so they are forced to learn how to be a man throughout the view points of women. Last but not least today’s day and age you have to be “Politically Correct “ or your racist etc... so there is so many things to point the finger at. I just know with everything comes pros and cons the older generations were always looking for guys like this generations and now this generation of women are looking for men more like those of the older generations.




Nah the truth is too painful to cry in silence
Many reasons:
* Feminism influencing the destruction of the traditional male role, "toxic" masculinity as they call it
* The rise of single-motherhood leading to fatherless homes, lack of strong male role models, boys being raised mainly by women who by nature have no idea about masculinity
* Comfort of modern life making men weak
* Endocrine disrupting chemicals in our water, food, and the environment
Cuz the FI has said that's what they want, then spurn them cuz it's a lie.
And way too many are raised by single mother with no man to learn what it is to be a man.
So we have a whole crop of girlie-men that can't lead, are indecisive, whine and fuss a lot, are crappy in bead, and break down into tears every time you do. Gah!
Others are byproduct of new-age helicopter parents that have told them since day-one how much they 'deserve' everything - success, romance, an education, a good job, and on an on. That is also a lie - you don't DESERVE anything, you get what you get for the effort and work you put in, just like everybody else. The whole entitlement attitude makes them ineffectual and weak. There's no drive, and everything is 'meh'.
Because men aren't encouraged or rewarded for being masculine. You can't take masculinity and remove one or two things from it.
Personally, the biggest struggle is most women view masculine men as the men to have casual sex with (which im glad) but they dont really want a masculine man to have a serious relationship with... why? Because naturally masculine men won't tolerate a woman putting him down or nagging him, he will want to be the breadwinner, he will want kids, etc. Most women don't want this stuff anymore. They instead want someone they can walk all over and thus many men adapt to be whatever they have to in order to get a girl.
Lol. How does a woman being a breadwinner or both of them making the same amount of money equal to women walking all over men? 😂😂😂
@Angie221994 its not. Those are two different things. But most women want to control a man. Masculine men are leaders so it does not compute that a man acts like a leader yet his girl controls him. Its not possible.
Also masculine men are not going to care about their girls career much. Why do igaf about a girls paycheck? I want kids and someone soft and sweet and i dont want some other man being the boss of her. A beta man is excited he is not responsible for the bills and will be so excited for a girlfriend who makes good money.
But why is this whole “the man has to be the breadwinner” still a thing? There’s more women in college right now (pretty sure it has to do with the rate of single moms). And this whole “you want to control us” like no. But that doesn’t mean men have to be the “leader” either. It’s just to be equal but men can’t stand that. So they call it “walking all over you” or “controlling you”.
Because a woman is allowed to have her own goals and aspirations for a career. It’s not all about you bro. 😂😂😂
@Angie221994 and your attitude is exactly why many men are acting feminine. You have a stick up your butt about having a job. Its only one aspect. You could have a job nobody is 100% masculine or feminine. Im just saying there is no such thing as a masculine man who is not the breadwinner and not the leader of the house and does the laundry and is not competitive and is not rough etc. A man has to be a significant amount of masculine behaviors or else he's more feminine. Get it? Men must act masculine to be masculine. So if you take some of it away they start becoming feminine.
But super masculine men are typically attracted to super feminine women. Personally im highly masculine and i only find ultra feminine women attractive. And typically they find me attractive because its complimentary. This is how it works. Most women are not very feminine these days so they act less masculine in order to attract women for relationships.
Lol. I don’t where you got the whole “a man who does his own laundry isn’t masculine”. Bro. Who does your laundry if you’re single? If you say you’re mom, that’s just embarrassing and pathetic. Everyone should know how to do basic things like clean and cook whether you’re a guy or not. Like how tf you gonna survive otherwise? 😂😂😂
@Angie221994 I don't know i mostly have random girls do my laundry when im single. Im being dead serious. Feminine women love me and i love appreciate them so much.
That’s just sad that you don’t even know how to do something as basic as laundry.
No one loves you😂😂
@Angie221994 lmao yup you got it. Such a smart little silly girl.
How am I silly if you’re the one that can’t even maintain your own survival? Doesn’t that mean woman are dominant since your existence depends on them doing your laundry and cooking? You would die without women. Lol. That makes woman the more masculine gender. Lol. Oh. And I’m not a girl. I’m a woman (:
@Angie221994 Well you aren't a woman you're a silly little girl. I know this because someone who was mature would not say the things you do.
So that makes you a silly little boy. Because a man knows how to do his own laundry 😂😂😂
Dude. Just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself and your entire gender. Lol
Do you mean looking effeminate or acting it? Because there's loads of examples of men looking effeminate throughout history, with long hair/wigs with the richer folk wearing lace and frills. But it does seem boys now are being taught masculinity is bad and that they're all evil little rapists and women are always right. They essentially fear women because they know even a hint of anything sexual or just being friendly and their entire life is over if the woman decides to call it inappropriate.
Because 'manliness' is deemed to be possessive, domineering and controlling. And you don't want that, because "that's RAPE! We're not YOURS, you don't OWN us- let us run wild and free!" And so, you turned all manly men into incels and proclaimed 'rapists', fucked around with whoever you wanted whenever you wanted 'cause 'SLUT PRIDE', projected your fantasies into 'woman's novels' (i. e, literary porn) like Twilight and Shades of Grey instead, and lamented "where have all the REAL MEN gone?"
Manly men are not incels. The most manly men are alphas.
@bamesjond0069 Alphas don't exist, and they never have done. Even in wolf packs. io9.gizmodo.com/why-everything-you-know-about-wolf-packs-is-wrong-502754629
At least, not WILD wolf packs. The 'alpha', in wolf populations, is purely a product of 'Lord of the Flies' style, 'every dog for himself' prevailing social environments, and ONLY ever comes into being when traditional parenting roles and family structures get removed from the picture. And it's exactly the same with human populations. You say the most manly men are alphas? No. The men who have to fight from birth to assert themselves, and develop these absurd notions about masculinity being based solely upon brute strength, aggression and psychopathy, cause they never had daddies when they were growing up, just like the wolves growing up in their zoo cages- THOSE are 'true alphas'. And they aren't 'manly men', any more than Batman- they're edgelord manbabies who were never taught how to be Real Men, on account of the total absence of paternal figures in their lives.
Um wtf? Thats some serious incel shit. So then what do we call men who lead and act in ways that attract women by being assertive and fearless and what do we call followers and losers that women don't find sexually arousing?
@bamesjond0069 Not Batman. Because Batman, aka Bruce Wayne, IS the epitome of the stereotypical alpha male; shaped and defined by the absence of his parents, and his fight against the criminals who took them from him and run rampant in his marked territory- and as you see time and time again, real women in the real world (as opposed to fictional women in the comic book world) bewilderingly DON'T consider Batman/Bruce Wayne to be particularly sexually attractive or arousing. At all. Go figure.
See, the thing is, this ISN'T supposed to be a war of the sexes. Love isn't supposed to be a battlefield- it's not about "eat or be eaten, sexually enslave or get sexually enslaved". That's the 'serious incel shit' in you talking, if that's how you see it. We're supposed to compliment each other. It's meant to be a co-operative partnership, mutually beneficial, comfortable and rewarding for all sides- the masculine father, the effeminate mother, and their juvenile children. Cause face it- if it were about "men who lead and act in ways that attract women by being assertive and fearless, and followers and losers that women don't find sexually arousing", then you, and pretty much every other guy in our society, would be a follower and a loser. So would pretty much every soldier and fighter in history. And those 'assertive and fearless' guys? They'd never be leaders in a tribal society. Cause face it- your idea of the perfect "alpha male"? 'Chad Thundercock'?
Yeah- dude, Chad is unequivocally GAY. You're telling me that this dude's supposed to represent your idealized image of 'manliness'?
Literally none of this is what i said at all. I don't know if id use batman as the epitome of masculinity or alphaness either. Such a weird example to use.
I'm not sure if your familiar with medieval and classical clothing men wore, but it's more feminine than things women wear today. Powdered wigs, long flowing coats, high heels, makeup, tunics, jewelry, and possibly long and unkept hair since that was the easiest thing to do.
Because true masculinity is not what men are raised with anymore only non masculine men use, abuse, and treat women like garbage, masculinity is knowing that women are to be protected, loved and treated as equals while still maintaining a good physical form and having good morals
The world is changing, preference as well as taste is also changing. I've seen men who look effeminate but still give off masculinity vibes. In my point of view it's new age generation taking advantage of the fashion trend and what the youth world has to offer. Most women or specifically the new age generation dig effeminate men. Unlike before, men are now very particular about their looks and hygiene. they spend so much time on their skin, hair more than trying to look more masculine. I actually like it.
To some extent, it had to change due to political correctness but there were never any truly tough guys. Hollywood har far more gay than straight men and many gay men played the most macho parts, I think the trick is knowing when to be polite & knowing when her shirt, panties etc should be ripped off and she should be fucked like he can't control himself.
I think that humans have evolved to not have such strong gender standards to uphold. For example, most 20 year old women (millenials, I suppose) do not know how to cook and wear jeans whereas in the past, they had to cook, clean, jeans were a no no, etc. I guess the best way to explain it is, people can express their genuine personalities more and not be as worried about not being girly or not being masculine enough.
Hahahahaha I knew it
When I read your question in the Feed, I thought to myself "there's gonna be some bitch on there whining about how Feminism ruined men". I was not disappointed.
I could go on for days about this topic, but first off, I gotta say I'm not convinced it's true that there are more effeminate men now than there were before. It's just more visible now.
@Inbox Cool man. Get some cheese for that whine. It pairs well.
@HungLikeAHorsefly A fat dumb chicken 🐓 🐓🐓 whose white knight mentality proves he must be as slow as he looks 😂😂😂
@JScottS97 Uhh... who are you?
@JScottS97 Clearly, you need to learn how to read - can't afford a decent education boy? Aww, poor boy... It must suck to live paycheck to paycheck..
@JScottS97 You're stupidity of getting involved didn't help you in this venture...
Men don't blame their problems on others. Oops, sorry - did I shame your masculinity there? Is that another thing Feminists did to bring doom upon us all while us helpless men just stood there and took it because we can't do things for ourselves?
@HungLikeAHorsefly I said Feminists played A, not THE role in causing men to lose their masculinity. Clearly, you also need to learn how to read - it must suck to be ignorant and a fat dumb chicken 🐓🐓🐓
@HungLikeAHorsefly Oops, sorry - did you want cheese with that whine? It pairs well 😂😂😂
So... you think one of the reasons men aren't masculine any more (which is questionable) is because... women stole it from us? The big bad womens came around and said the mean words and now we can't be men any more because the girls said so. Is that right?
@HungLikeAHorsefly is the winner of this debate. It is between shit tier insults and actual arguments so it isn't a high bar.
Feel free to keep going, it is quite funny to read XD
@JScottS97 Definitely a white knight. I love the fact you're assuming so much, but that's what happens when it's someone's civic duty to bend over as an ass kisser... Then again, I should call the FDA and warn them of the new disease called JScottS97 that has infected the human species...
@JScottS97 Also, I love the fact that you're not reading between the lines and cannot see the big picture - but, please keep going and commenting :)
@HungLikeAHorsefly I'm going to try to summarize everything because you've already proven that you're incapable of comprehending a lot of details. Put simply, in America, both Left and Right politicians have to make their "bank" or votes from somewhere. The Left tend to depend on SJW votes. Unfortunately, the media thrives on the loud or most dramatic (take Trump or AOC for example). In other words, in my opinion, Feminists now adays are raging lunatics, and the Left media (CNN or MSNBC) thrive on it because that's how they get views/money. When all viewers see are extreme viewpoints, it has a lot of influence on unsuspecting viewers. Once famous people embrace your ideology, it pushes you to go further. Men who fall for many of their arguments/crusade are just like women who keep going back to the abusive man - they just don't know any better because that's what they were taught by their leftist family (usually it's a leftist).
I concur that we men need to take responsibility and keep pushing on through, but my issue with Feminists is that 95% of their arguments are based upon fallacies. It's basically like trying to convince me that you're a flying unicorn - you can't fight against sexism by always making a sexist argument for example. On the flip side, I appreciate what the Left has done for those who had no voice, but there's no sense of realism on HOW they fight. HOW you play your cards in this life is what makes the difference between victory or defeat...
@HungLikeAHorsefly Bottom line, to understand something, you need to understand the PROCESS - be it a human body or how a culture evolves every 5 - 10 years. So basically:
1. Feminists are almost the angry man hating ones now
2. Media reports it to make money and get more viewers
3. Politicians look for how to satisfy their voters by targeting an issue or phenomenon in our culture
4. The media will keep supporting their side - be it Fox or CNN
5. With politicians pushing their fallacy arguments and the media also pushing it has heavy influence on the population
6. Viewers who are not aware that EVERY MAJOR media channel (CNN, Fox, etc) are biased become brainwashed
7. The brainwashed now carry out those attitudes/beliefs, thus = men not being as masculine...
@Inbox Thanks for the explanation. It was condescending and all but thanks anyway.
You didn't manage to get around to explaining how exactly Feminism made men less masculine. You described a wide variety of social effects that may or may not have any basis in reality, but you didn't say how it is that Feminism demasculates men.
I mean, what you described - we get it. This isn't some major revelation that the world works this way. What's curious is why you seem to think you're so "woke", considering your position is one of the most basic and most common pseudo-intellectual argument around (and certainly one of the most popular on GAG).
Let me sum it up:
1. Feminism is mostly based on fallacies. You haven't said how, or why, or what fallacies these are. And you've demonstrated you don't care about fallacious thinking in your own opinions. But anyway, it's fallacious
2. Men who agree with Feminism have been brainwashed by the media and/or their family and just don't know any better.
3. ?
4. Men are less masculine now
Oops, I think I was too wordy there. Since you're such an expert wordsmith who's intimately familiar with fallacious thinking, I could have just said this:
Your entire argument is Begging the Claim, and most of the supporting argumentation you've used is a repeated Ad Hominem attack on both @JScottS97 and myself.
But you already know that, right? You're an expert in logical thinking, after all.
You acted like you're so familiar with Feminism that I thought you would know their policies and/or what they're fighting for, but with 3rd and 4th wave Feminism it's basically: 1) women don't need men, 2) women can do whatever a man can do, 3) equality, 4) many others.
I've studied the major media companies for the past 3 years, including listening and reading the Feminist articles and testimonies. I've even had friends who are Feminists. I don't know why you think I'm so "woke."
Anyway, when you read articles like this, especially on CNN where almost all of their Men vs Women articles are basically it's always the man's fault, women are innocent and/or superior, and they ONLY cherish men acting like well... women. These types of articles over time influence viewers. You know who else supports all this? Feminists and the Left. Constantly berating men for everything is demoralizing and tends to make men (or any human for that matter) submissive in the long run. Back in college, no male would speak up when a woman was in the wrong in my gender classes (I had to take those classes for my major unfortunately - went to a liberal arts college) due to fear of retaliation. A professor even thanked me for stating my opinion despite retaliation lol. Again, intimidation, the blame game (society will usually take the woman's side on everything) on someone or a group of people all the time is demoralizing. Schools (even elementary) are basically penalizing boys for being boys (there's a ton of articles and research on this) - I hope you understand now how far the Feminists influence has reached.
On a personal note, I have to put up with female abuse every month (I approach a lot of girls, but it comes with the territory hehehe...), and yes it does include sexual assault, extreme manipulation, etc, yet I never tell anyone about it because schools, society, even the police don't believe you or give a damn - again the Feminist influence is far reaching. Now, although it does frustrate me, I accept that this the world I live in now.
When it comes to the Left vs Right, I've also observed them intensely for the past 3 years. We can go into this another time, but it's not coincidence that the Left and SJW movements are virtually on the same side. They are often idealists with a lack of realism.
For example, the whole equality argument is just another way for Feminists trying to cover their tracks simply to gain more power. In this Universe, even in a business partnership that is 50 50 - there is always a party that has more power. It could be because they're more intelligent, more resources, etc. So in a sense, the equality argument makes very little sense. Although, this is from a realist POV - an idealist such as the Left or Feminists would never accept this because they're fighting for such a binary world (black and white). Billie Jean King (hardcore Feminist) applauded that a country in Europe now has a 50 50 gender parliament in their government - as someone who has been in the business world since 13 years old, worked in over 7 fields, and a historian, I can only ROFL because you can have equal things on paper, but it doesn't mean you have true equality. There is a power dynamic in ALL relationships: parent to a child, CEO to an employee, girlfriend vs boyfriend, etc. Question is where do YOU fit in?
I don't know what you mean by "3?"
@HungLikeAHorsefly Sorry, I'll dial the info down next time, since you're too ignorant and slow to understand what Feminism is really about. Oops! Did I shame your masculinity there?
@HungLikeAHorsefly Hahahahaha I knew it, a nerd whose laundry list of shitty computer skills couldn't tell between info that was intended to support vs not support their argument - tell me, is your wife just ugly and slow?
@Inbox Dialing down the info next time would be appreciated. You're right in that I don't understand what you're saying. To me, it isn't relevant other than to say "@Inbox thinks Feminism created an environment hostile to men and that's why a lot of them are weak".
See, I've been observing the men's rights movement and all that for a while now, and one thing I've noticed is that men who aren't terribly interested in defining an identify for themselves - for determining what masculinity means today, and if/why guys don't possess it - tend to blame things on outside forces. Like Feminism. It's an easy out, and it has the benefit of sounding intellectual while at the same time being devoid of any real introspection. It's buck passing.
Which, of course, isn't a very masculine thing to do.
@HungLikeAHorsefly An interesting POV you have, but by your logic: all of the information stream is the same. If all the info your brain receives about what is masculine is X, but in reality it's supposed to be Y, the question is who sent that data? Propaganda works the same way.
Now, in part, it is the responsibility of any human to try to see through society's masks, but the truth is that I was a white knight in high school. No one taught me how to talk to girls or approach them. Once I made highly experienced friends who were good with women, I worked on myself to get better with girls. Before however, I kept hearing all Feminist BS of wanting a nice, sensitive, sweet, but I know you're too smart to fall for that.
Truth is, it's the alpha sexy guy that women get wet over, NOT the white knight. In other words, the information stream was corrupted by certain groups just trying to press their agenda - but all sides do this.
Lastly, if men or a man is not working on them self to be more masculine AND blaming outside forces, then yes I concur with you. On a whole of our society here in America, I do not concur because women are being favored more and more everyday (especially in the business world) - in other words, women are becoming/taking the roles like men (that's what the Feminists wanted from the start). Have you seen Hollywood films lately?
@Inbox I don't think the message that women want nice, sweet (effeminate) men is a Feminist thing. I think it's a construct in the minds of men who doing relate to women well. Feminism is a nice, easy, ultimately present thing to blame that on. I've seen no evidence that's a central message Feminists push - or non-Feminist women for that matter.
Regardless of where this idea came from, though, you're presenting it as a binary choice. Either you're a White Knight or you're a masculine man. In reality, modern men are in the midst of an identity crisis. The archetypal 1950's view of masculinity no longer works, and a lot of guys resist this view (I think) because it's big and scary and we haven't had to think about what our identity as a gender is like women have. Instead of trying to fix the problem, those guys look for someone to blame.
Feminism has nothing to do with masculinity, other than it played a part in shaping the world into an environment in which the 1950's man doesn't work any more. There are a lot of reasons to not bemoan that - 1950's masculinity didn't work for men, either.
So instead, we have a bunch of guys who either 1) take the lack of an identity around masculism to mean we should be like women, or 2) stubbornly resist any and all suggestions masculinity means something other than what it did 70 years ago. Neither one of those approaches works.
I guess my main beef with complaining about how Feminism ruined men is that it renders us powerless to change things other than to go back to a demonstrably unworkable, largely mythical golden age, which never really works out. A worldview in which women did something to us to make us like this suggests the fix is out of our hands - that women are more powerful than we are to shape our own identity. That's bullshit in my opinion
True that I gave a binary choice, but it's really quite simple - you either see through the lies or you don't. Now, not seeing through the lies doesn't necessarily make you not masculine, it just makes you more susceptible towards female, male, and societal manipulation.
In my experience, the women who deny their biological influence and that they're not attracted to the alpha or bad boy - feminists. Also, have you seen the men who actually date Feminists? They're basically men who've either been turned into or are white knights. A friend of mine who wasn't a white knight dated a crazy Feminist, only to later turn into a white knight much to my disdain. She beat him into submission through abuse even though he never provoked her. I kept trying to convince him to leave her, but he made his choice.
Ironically, we men did the same thing to women ages ago and still do to a certain extent, but the Feminists are being no better than how men were back in the old days. I haven't done my research about the 50s so I can't comment on that, but the left that supports their agenda (CNN and MSNBC in particular) makes unsuspecting males spread their views as well that will translate into their behavior. Ultimately, I agree that we still have the power to shape our identity, but I think the flow of information has been corrupted by angry misandrists called Feminists: reeducation is always harder than education.
Compared to men many years ago:

Yes, back when they had curled hair, wore lace and mascara the men were much manlier.
Just stay in the kitchen woman!
They also wore high heels
@NorthwestRider yes and nylons too.
There's always been effeminate men. There were times throughout history where this was actually the beauty norm. These things always come and go, change and evolve. Nothing new.
#ToxicMasculinity #FalseMeTooo #MenAre Pigs...
Men are too afraid to be men for fear of being called names. As a result, men aren't passing on manliness and masculinity on to their boys. Single Motherhood by choice is another factor (single mothers can't teach a boy how to be a man)...
There are a lot of reasons. Societally, men have been demonized to point where it's not only unpopular to be masculine, but can create problems for them in school and work. Also, hard work is looked down on, so manly roles have been reduced, and masculine male role models have been in short supply for a few decades.
Next time you go shopping, check how many products contain soya (You will be surprised). Secondly, break down of the family, boys being raised by their Mothers (and acting like it) without a man in the house. Societies pathetic acceptance of feminist ideology, poisoning the youths mind, last, prosperity, suicide isn't a problem in thrid word counties.
The problem with that hypothesis is that the most "toxic" males tend to be the ones raised by single mothers. They're the ones who join gangs and build a criminal record. Also, seeing as women have the last word when it comes to sex, where did "toxic masculinity" come from? Answer: Women chose to mate with "toxic men", and those traits were preserved in men.
Men back in the day were raised to have no choice. It was be manly or be seen as a disgrace.
The definition of “manly” will vary based on who you ask because it technically doesn’t exist... we made it up...
Oh it does exist, it is one individual male being more close to the roughness part of the stereotype of male being in nature that it separates him from the fragility of femininity as the classic stereotype of female being in nature of all beings, the most
Yes, the phenomenon of being male exists. What is expected of a male human’s behavior is decided by humans.
A lot of behavior is innate, like instincts for example. Secondly the hormones affect behavior as well. Masculinity is connected to testosterone. Its needed to get erections and make sperm to procreate. Or do you want all men to take viagra?
Being more close, I surely meant behavioral not biological
Affeminine women are making babies too. Clearly masculinity has nothing to do with the ability to procreate.
Just like every other living being on this planet all of our attributes boil down to survival and reproduction.
It looks like evolution is steering away from the gorilla method and becoming the peacock method.
Women...*sigh* men. 🙄
This is what I get for being awake all night.
Have you seen early pictures of David Bowie? Lol. And girls loved him.
Feminists are making it such that masculinity is demonized as they want some fucked up hybrid for everyone.
Great jobs now are based on intelligence, not muscle and aggression. Smart guys are killing it there but they don’t look like the stereotype... Gates, Zuckerburg, Elon Musk and the tens of millions of lower level versions of them.
Because as a society, we have been force-fed a bucket of socialist bilge about being OK with men walking into women's washrooms and so many other idiotic "feminist concepts". If a male calls himself a "woman", then women are nothing special (since anyone can claim to be one). Ironically, new socialist feminism has just shot itself in the foot - again.
The problem is your comparing it to men before. Why can't we just accept that people are the way they are. Men back then I would argue were manly. They just made the woman's roles to be a certain way and keep the system of subjugation for woman in place until they fought back.
I don't think that, being racist and have segregation, thinking of women as property, owning slaves, or any of the behavior of the men before to be "manly"
No idea. People blame single moms, but single moms raised boys in the past without fathers in some cases and the boys grew up to act like men.
It can't be feminism, because no one can force you to act a certain way without your consent.
I just think lots of males for some strange reason just desire to act like pussies and effeminate.
You mean like in the good ol days when before we were born...


It depends on the culture because my instructor told me in class last year that in ancient times men who had soft and feminine features were prized while rugged and masculine men were viewed as less worthy of respect and romance
Because we don't put so much pressure on men to be manly anymore. I'd rather a guy be open about his feelings with me than keep everything bottled up in a dumb attempt to act more manly.
What is "effeminate" according to you? Here's what men wear years ago. You want that?
Anyways aren't feminists complaining about masculinity being "toxic" while complaining about men not being "men" anymore?
This is only seen with white men and Asian men but hey their body and face are effeminate to begin with , they just born that way
Black men on the other hand are the pinnacle of manliness it is impossible to make a black man effeminate cuz their genetics are masculine
You don't like effeminate men date black men
Enraged white men coming in in 3 , 2 ,1
Holy shit a girl liked it damn she was really hate white guys
Aaah another one geez gag girls really hate white guys
This is a broad generalization and relative to what "manly" means to different people. In days past, where our environments were rougher, masculinity was often correlated primarily to physical strength. Society has changed and I think those seeking "masculinity" would be better off embracing traits in men like patience, wisdom, kindness and maturity rather than conflating a stereotype with actual values and worth.
Because effeminate men in past could not express themselves so they had to stay hiding in the closet. Now men are allowed to be whatever that want and so men feel free to be effeminate if that's what they like doing.
lol women can just stfu. on one hand we got women complaining about toxic masculinity and demonizing dominant men and then we have women complaining cos men are effeminate. done with your shit
oh look some whiteknight simp has downvoted this. thinks it will get him laid.
Because dudes realized they can be more neat and display emotions rather than rugged and cold without being considered gay.
If guys didn't show emotions in the past, who made all the art, architecture, symphonies, poetry and philosophy?
@esotericstory femmine men, but they closed themselves off from society for a reason. Same time periods: who explored the seas, who fought in battles, those were "real men". But they couldn't show emotions that made them look weak, that wasn't manly. Holding back emotions makes you cold and unhappy.
Today men learned that, and even though everyone shows pictures from man in the 70's saying they were always around. Those man were manly as well but grew with the times. Today's man are femmine because they're more open.
@Roy_badgarr Seems like the bullshit you would expect from the Netherlands.
The rise of the stronger, more assertive woman. Creative trends tend to reflect society's thoughts, so the reason that men are being promoted as more feminine is because they have become more feminine.
Just taking a guess, but I think
that they just didn't fit the times. The industrial revolution, great depression, World War I & II, the Korean War... times were tough, and people had to be tough to adapt and overcome the challenges they faced. Conformity seemed to be more the norm and individuality seemed more frowned upon. Probably because people relied more on community, which is a lot easier when people are the same, more less.
- Too much wealth and luxury and thus lackluster hardships
- Too many single mothers
- Lack of male role models
- Estrogen in tap-water
- Society, media, etc. taking a shit on all masculine.
Why are women less feminine these days? Exactly the same reason. Feminism mainly, and societal changes. Men want women to be feminine as well. Women stopped being feminine men became less masculine.
Look at the society we live in and there's your answer. Our society is based off of comfort, so what do you expect?
In my personal opinion its because we are raised to fear women. Or at least I was. No touch. No looking for extended periods of time. So on and so forth. And that's when I was younger.
Because our society considers masculinity to be toxic. Not just when masculine traits are being used in ways that hurt other people, but any time a man expresses a traditionally masculine trait, that it immediately "toxic masculinity".
A lot of the traits associated with being manly like physical strength haven't been as valuable as they used to be now that we're in the age of technology. I think it's on it's way back in now though. More and more guys joining gyms every year.
Because of feminism. Feminists attack men for being men, scaring young men into acting more feminine.
They are not allowed to be. Acting like boys is punished in schools, even in kindergarden. It is punished on college campuses and it is punished in the workplace.
You're looking in the wrong, go visit Afghanistan and see nothing but manly men coz they don't follow any man-made system that is designed to gradually feminise them.
Because back in the day you would get beat up or killed for being effeminate so most men learned to hide it well
isn't that what you want? a pretty girl with a dick? make up your mind feminists
Evolution. more and more people begin to be themselves or what the majority of some movement are doing...
Little to many thing's that sums up and make it more noticeable.
Culture through media outlets have softened men up to express themselves in effeminate ways.
Men are not discipled by their dads how to act masculine and embark upon a man's life. They basically want men to be pampered around.
Being effeminate was seen as gay and gays were beaten up, disowned and worse.
Their parents didn’t do a good job and western society not following traditional gender roles.
Becouse they all turning gay, becouse women are turning lesbian or they are filthy femenists or they are... Anti vaxx mom's!!!
Lol hae you seen the men in the 70s, 80s and 90s? The 90s men had on crop tops with with short shorts lol.
Because the feminists stated the they would reduce the men to 10% of the population and they are doing it.
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