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I've said many times, I'd hate to be single and looking right now. Not good looking enough for online dating or to have someone approach me, not confident in myself enough to approach someone. Not a coward by any means, was just never any good and talking to people I was interested in. Still not 100% sure how I got close enough to someone to marry and impregnate them.
I wouldn’t say it’s true that men aren’t approaching women anymore, at least not as a general statement. The only ones who aren’t are not the kind of guy a woman should be with anyway. Unless he’s a feminine, passive guy who wants the woman to approach.
"Unless he’s a feminine, passive guy who wants the woman to approach." - There goes that trademark feminine generalizing. This shit is weakening women more than ever. The pedestal y'all are on these days is clouding your judgement.
Ash - Millenial women are the first generation of women in American history that are doing worse than their mothers, while millenial men had no problem outdoing our fathers. You don't think your arrogance had anything to do with that?
There’s nothing wrong with men being passive with it comes to women, but their strategy and their aim will have to be different than that of a masculine man who initiates. Doing worse how? Because My man and I are millennials and we have already lasted longer than my moms two marriages and my dads three marriages, and his parents marriages as well.
So if a guy doesn't approach he's not masculine?
@villageidiot Sometimes. Men are hard wired to pursue women. They love the quest. They love proving themselves as the best man for the woman they want. This is associated with masculinity.
I understand hard wired in terms of electricity, however I don't know what you mean by "men are hard wired"
@villageidiot It means an instinctive nature.
Have you ever taken a course in Anthropology?
So you can differentiate human behaviour from wild animals
The ability to reason allows us to question our own instinct and this makes us unique among other animals. That reasoning is neither masculine or feminine. It is simply a decision making process. It does not reflectsexuality, temperment or intellect. Aggressive and passive are not mutually exclusive behaviors. Most of us are some combination of the two. We are a combination of many kinds of behavior and this is where reasoning comes into the picture. There are choices. We can "act" aggressive, passive or any way we want. Even if it runs contrary to our overall personalities. Do you think the loudest guy in the room is the most confident? The most masculine? The best lover? Usually NOT
Sure, you can decide to act however you want, but most people prefer to act how they feel most comfortable acting.
"Men are hard wired to pursue women. They love the quest. They love proving themselves as the best man for the woman they want. This is associated with masculinity."We don't pursue because we want to. We only make the first move because women absolutely refuse to.Of course, the only time I make the first move per se is through tinder. And again, I really only do it because otherwise, I'd spend years single if I waited for women to ask me out.
@DWD1994, Why do you only pursue though tinder?
Give me your opinion on something. I'm confident in the areas in which I'm familiar, engineering, military etc. I am special forces JSOC, Played all American at OSU and in general am a high achiever.Now that said... I am very shy around girls... does this make me less of a man or simply not masculine?
Personally I don’t think it makes you less of a man, but I would question, are you shy in general or just with women?
Hmm. There might be some reason why you’re only shy around women in spite of your accomplishments.
"Why do you only pursue though tinder?"Because approaching/pursuing women outside of tinder or any dating app is a waste of my time and most women in general aren't approachable. Plus most women are on edge when a guy approaches them and assume the worst about him. Not to mention, you have NO idea whether or not the woman is actually interested in you, let alone if she's actually single, let alone actually interested in dating. There's no frame of reference. There's no sign on her head saying "Come talk to me, I'm a heterosexual single woman looking for a date".With tinder, its more predictable. Plus its more efficient. I can swipe right nonstop till I find someone I like, message them, keep swiping right till I find another person, message them, etc.
DWD, I’d say your anxiety about approaching women is very high. You’re wanting it easy (even though it’s not supposed to be) but the truth is there are men out there working harder to get the same women you are. Just know that’s who you’re competing with. Unless you’re not looking for anything serious. You get what you put in.
I don't have anxiety about it. I'm fine, I just think its a waste of time because women in general aren't approachable outside of dating apps. Plus, most women (in natural settings where the guy would do the approaching) already have boyfriends or are engaged. With dating apps, you know for a fact that the person you talk to is interested in dating. So its more predictable.Also, just because I don't want to deal with bullshit, doesn't mean I 'want it easy'. If I wanted it easy, I would just sit on my ass, doing nothing but playing games on the computer, eating heart attack inducing amounts of pizza and energy drinks, refuse to shave or take care of my appearance, etc. But I don't do any of that stuff.
It seems like you’re trying to avoid the risk of rejection. Confident men aren’t so worried about it. I have men to approach me regularly at my job of all places, and sometimes out in public too, and they talk to me like a normal person would for a few minutes. Then they ask me out, and I politely decline and theyll go “oh ok, my bad, lucky man you have.” and then that’s it. Many even remain friendly afterwards as if it never happened. Older men in their late 30s or over are much better at this than younger men, though. It’s a learning curve. But if you’re ok with scraping the bottom of the barrel on tinder, well then knock yourself out but don’t expect much.
My confidence is fine and I'm not scared of rejection. I just don't see it as worth my time when I could go on tinder, get dates with less than half the effort, etc.
Ok then just don’t expect any more effort from the girls you’re on there talking to, because they’re going to know you aren’t willing to put in the effort so they won’t either.
How would they know I'm not 'putting in any effort'? If a girl asks me if I'm talking to other girls, you honestly think I'm gonna tell her the truth?
You honestly don’t think they’re aware you’re behaving as a low value make? You’re on tinder for crying out loud. Only riffraff goes there.
Just because a guy is on tinder, doesn't mean he's a low value male.Interacting with women is extremely exhausting and I barely have time as it is for the things I enjoy doing. So why not make things easier by going on tinder? How does that make someone a low value male?
It’s not just that. To say that approaching a woman “isn’t worth your time” is a low value attitude and then ever more... to admit that you’d lie to a woman who’d ask you if you’re seeing other women is very low value behavior.
How is it low value? Women lie all the time. If it helps me get laid or get in a relationship, whats the big deal?
It might help you get laid by an idiot but you have zero business being in a relationship with the way your thinking is.
And how is it low value thinking to point out how approaching women outside of tinder isn't worth my time?
Because it reeks of laziness and/or entitlement. Women will see that as you saying she’s not worth your time.
And if it’s your time that you don’t have enough of, you shouldn’t be dating until you do that enough time.
"Because it reeks of laziness and/or entitlement. Women will see that as you saying she’s not worth your time."How does it reek of entitlement? I'm not demanding women talk to me or date me. And how does it reek of laziness? Just because I dont wanna waste my time, doesn't make me lazy.
You’d think that if you cared about finding a decent woman that you’d put the work in that is required. You cannot fibs a decent woman the way you are. If you’re ok with that, then that’s your choice.
Your premise that I dont put in any work is false. I do put in a lot of work particularly in my appearance. I'm extremely strict with my diet, I work out almost every day. I groom myself, shave regularly, wash my face, take care of my skin, etc.That in and of itself is enough work for me."You cannot fibs a decent woman the way you are."Sure I can. Why is it a big deal if I talk to/sext multiple women as opposed to fixating on 1 person which I have no idea whether or not things will actually work out with them or not? That way if things don't work out, I can just move on immediately after that.
It might be enough effort for you but is it enough effort for a high value woman? A high value woman wants a man who steps up to pursue her like a man, not like a juvenile who hooks up with multiple women on tinder and does things like sexting.
Maybe you’re the unaware that the type of “dating” you do is child’s play and ultimately going nowhere.
"It might be enough effort for you but is it enough effort for a high value woman? A high value woman wants a man who steps up to pursue her like a man, not like a juvenile who hooks up with multiple women on tinder and does things like sexting."As long as she doesn't know, then why is it a big deal?Its not child play either, its just how dating is. Dating is a numbers game for guys. Guys that just fixate on 1 person and dont talk to anyone else, those are the guys that spend years being single.
As long as she doesn’t know? You sound like a pathological liar.
Well I'm asking whats the big deal if she doesn't know? As long as she doesn't know, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Because it’s deceitful.
And? If it helps me, whys it a bad thing?
Because that’s selfish.
And? Women are deceitful and selfish too. Its just how dating is.
It’s how low value dating is.
No its just how dating in general is. As a guy, you dont get anywhere dating being honest.
And you say you’re not low value. You’re a mgtow just waiting to happen.
I actually do consider myself MGTOW but I still date.
That explains a lot.
MGTOW are usually toxic in various ways.
Toxic in what ways?
They are selfish, entitled, woman haters.
I dont hate women. I just don't really trust them, thats all. And how are they entitled and selfish?
Of course you don’t trust them because you can’t be trusted yourself. It’s a guilty conscience.
That makes no sense? What am I guilty of?
You’re a liar and cheater.
Im only lying out of necessity. And cheater? I'm not cheating.
You’re lying right now. The reason doesn’t matter.
Women lie too though. Why is it wrong if men lie?
It’s wrong if anyone lies.
Still dont really see what the big deal is.
That’s not surprising.
What do you mean 'not surprising'?
Ash you're contradicting yourself again.
How so? Oh Yeah and let’s just gloss over the fact that this guy desperately tries to excuse his lying and deceitful ways. There’s zero excuses here.
Its not like I enjoy lying. As I said, I only do it out of necessity when it comes to dating.
It doesn’t matter.
why doesn't it matter?
You’re trying to make excuses for lying when there are none. It’s wrong, regardless. This discussion is over.
By doing worse I'm not in anyway refering to relationships. I'm talking about productivity, happiness in general and politics.
You're going to act like women don't lie? Sorry but y'all are bigger more horrendous liars than any man will ever be.
I didn’t say women don’t lie.
You attack what you perceive as weak men all the time but you show an insane amount of signs that you're exactly the type of woman only a weak passive man would be able to be with. I can smell it across the internet. A "real man" would be either constantly having to put you in your place OR would have walked out on you ages ago after seeing how how much you stand on a pedestal of intellectual authority. I would bet HARD CASH your husband is a beta and you're the one who wears the pants in the house. Only man with "happy wife, happy life", "the queen of the house is always right" mentality would be able to handle you.
I have high standards for my man but I also have high standards for myself. I’d say he has a pretty good mixture of “alpha” and “beta” qualities. The problem with guys who are extremely beta is that a woman basically has to take on more of a motherly role, which isn’t what a wife should do. I’d never want to have to do all the leg work for a guy who can’t make his own decisions or just sits there like a passive bump on a log.
"I’d say he has a pretty good mixture of “alpha” and “beta” qualities." - Ash, just what I thought, you're the man of the house. You bottom from the top. Basically you're the man of the house and the one who calls the shots but you ALLOW HIM to be a man when if and when he has your approval or when he knows (like the trained good boy he is) that it's a situation he won't be scolded for. I've smelled that about you from the second you started bragging about being married months ago and how you think you're queen of the world. The ONLY way any man can be with you is if he wears panties.
Believer whatever you want. If you don’t like it, then don’t YOU date him.
Today's long term women are hard to find. There are not many decent ones left who are willing to wait until marriage or not cheat the second they get the chance. There are just not enough women with self-respect out there.
I pretty much only use tinder. That's the ONLY way I will make the first move. Other than that, I seldom if ever ask anyone out.Sorry ladies, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. You can thank feminism for that. Maybe try getting rid of the hyperparanoia surrounding sexual harassment, etc and more men will be open to approaching. Until then, I'm sticking to tinder and I advise other men to as well (if not just completely avoid dating alltogether)
In speaking to the feminists I know in real life. I get the sense that they want a little victimization to always exist so they can always whip out the misogyny card when it's convinient. Somewhat validating the stereotype that if you want to really make a woman angry all you have to do is give her what she wants
would you like to borrow my bulldozer? to take that chip off your shoulder
@villageidiot Sure when do you want it back? ;D
There’s not a single clear-cut answer to this. Some men are too shy, others aren’t interested in relationships, others can’t find a woman they want to ask out, or some combination of those.
They hate shy guys anyway so whats the point in trying. Let them make the approach. I'm done with this shit
Probably not approaching as much as they don't want to be accused of sexual assault/harassment etc. You can thank the feminists.
THANK YOU! It's insane how whenever the topic of women not being to find men is brought up, it's women who want to tap dance around #metoo and what it did to the dating scene.
Strong independent MAN who don't need no woman - the shoe is on the other foot now, ladies.
Guys need to focus on themselves not everything is about women. Guys waste way too much time as it is thinking about women
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