I’ve seen many people here on GaG expressing dissatisfaction in the lack of “traditional” women/girlfriends/wives. What about traditional men? Seems kind of like a double standard.
Traditional men are a thing of the past, simply because the concept of traditional gender roles are simply obsolete. Today we are on the third or fourth generation of feminist, and every cooperate and government entity in the United States has put millions into training on Equal Opportunity and Sexual Harassment in the work force... basically educating men on the FACT that women are equal. So with that comes the expectation that everyone to include men and women are expected to perform under the same conditions and requirements.
So now people are coming to realize that all the exceptions that were made for women in the past were inherently sexist. So no more holding doors for women, or making exceptions for single mothers, or standing up for a lady or giving up your seat. If it something you don't or would not do for any man you should not do it for a women, because its sexist. So on this point women have to reap what they sowed.
The issue for men is that in dating and at home their girlfriends and wives still want all those courtesy that were traditionally afforded to women, but their girlfriend and wives do not want to give the courtesies traditionally afford to men. And there in lies the issue and a probably why there is such a high divorce rate or decrease in the belief of the traditional concept of marriage, and also why a larger percentage of women do not identify with the feminist movement in general today.
So there is a lack of traditional men and women both because we are being taught, programed and socially engineered from a young age that any traditional concept of gender roles are obsolete to the degree that many teens at very young ages do not identify as being man or women and openly identify as transgender as young as 10 to 12 years old. They encouraged to do by society and in that even further confuse or distort the believe in any traditional gender role within modern society.
Some would argue that this is a result of the feminist's assault on traditional gender roles, and other will attribute it to the organizations like LGBTQ. In the end I can not say for certain, but the role of women in the work place is something I have to struggle with in my life time.
Many a day I had to work late or pick up extra tasks because other single parents had to pick up their kids from school, or take them to doctors appointments. But since I had a wife at home, I was expected to put the extra work and hours in. Of course this came with additional stress, and did little to improve my home life. Many times my wife felt that she was not being treated fairly because she was forced to take on a lot of parenting roles that would of other wise been shared. I of course promoted faster and earned more pay... but I worked hard and was expect to do more because of my traditional family situation. I resented this very much, and strove to ensure that all women and men were treated equally as I promoted... so that meant no excuses for single parents and I held all employees to the same standard. Many resented this because they believed that I did not understand the challenges confronted by working moms... but I held the line at equal pay for equal work. Some of my best and most respected employees and bosses were women who up held the same believe system.
So nothing traditional about it, and you can lay the blame at the feet of who ever you want... but welcome to the 23rd century.
Some still exist, but they are not all that common anymore.
Everyone who said "feminism killed them off" is more or less correct. The idea that you can make major changes to a system, and that everything else would stay the same, is naïve. 60's feminists (not the leaders - I'm talking about the followers) believed they could radically change women, and what women brought to the relationship - but that they'd still enjoy all of the benefits they used to enjoy. That's not how anything works - though.
Newton said "for every action, there is an equal an opposite reaction." And, well, in a complex system, reactions aren't always instantaneous or precisely equal, but there are always going to be reactions. Women can't expect the benefits and lack of responsibilities that traditional women enjoyed, while at the same time having the benefits of modern women too. It's one or the other.
Women wanted to have careers. They wanted to spend their 20s in college, being single, and having fun instead of getting married. And they have that now - but they can't ALSO expect to have men who want to marry them at 35 (Instead of 22), and they can't expect men to out-earn them when they are competing in the work place with those men, and when they've doubled the workforce and thus halved the average value of all workers.
They also can't demand equality, but still expect men to pay for them and to step up and bail her out of problems. Authority comes with an equal dose of responsibility - if you want to be in charge, then you have to solve the problems and bear the costs, just as men did in the past. And this especially means long-term responsibilities, such as retirement.
Women told men that they would not follow - but most still want men to lead, and provide, and protect. You can't have it both ways, and a lot of men simply left the game, realizing the game was fixed and they had no chance to succeed. Why kill yourself working to increase your status to try to impress women who don't respect you? Many have resigned themselves to being single, and are happy to earn enough to be comfortable and to spend their extra money and free time doing things they enjoy. In that sense, men are much better equipped for being single than women are - and most women don't even know what it is to be truly single until they're about 35, and all the attention they got in their youth is gone.
I dont believe that anyone is 100% traditional and staying at home mums ain't traditional. A traditional woman had/have to to work almost all over world at farm or in their village by taking care of the animals without getting paid back. Maybe only in america women could afford to stay at home in 40s-90s (?) but in the rest of the world women had to or still work at farm ( in africa) or had to work in typical male jobs due to shortage of men due to wars and so many things were destroyed to the point few men could not built the whole country and as a result women had to work/built the country. Blaming every shit on feminism is ridiculous, irresponsible and sensless. Society changes with time. For example many women in (central) Europe still wanted to work again after their experience with "male jobs" aka getting paid. Do you really think these women (from radical rightist time aka nazi time) suddenly change their mind due to a feminist? !! How dumb are the people who think like this? These nazi women or women from nazi generation would laugh at you and screwed you and feminism together lol I personally think internet change the society a lot since many people all over the world could share their experiences, and their voices can be heard. I also want to say that staying at home is modern as feminism. I am middleeastern and my mum had to care about the animals etc while doing household chores without any modern Gadgets as a child and stop doing it after livin in a city. Today women can choose to stay at home without working (outside) or can go working. Anyway Asian countries are very conservative but many women there still choose to work Did feminism make these conservative people work? Lol
Many guys on gag also want the benefit of traditional traits but reject the "bad" aka marriage or waiting till marriage. Any man who dont wait till marriage should not expect from her girlfriend to be traditional
"A traditional woman had/have to to work almost all over world at farm or in their village by taking care of the animals without getting paid back."
Without getting paid back? Does she have a roof over her head? Does she have clothes? Food? Does her husband protect her? Is he there to take care of her? Does he protect and provide for the children? Do you think all of that hard work by the man is "free"? THAT is the payback.
And let's make no mistake: women make more than 70% of all retail buying decisions, even though they make 40% of the income. That means they're spending a LOT of the man's money. So where do you get this "no payback" stuff from?
"Without getting paid back? Does she have a roof over her head? Does she have clothes? Food? Does her husband protect her? Is he there to take care of her? Does he protect and provide for the children? Do you think all of that hard work by the man is "free"? THAT is the payback. " - NO man does this shit and police exist for a reason to protect you. This is not husband's job. No human being is entitled to anyone's protection for free. A maid only do all of modern house wife chores and still GET PAID. By the way being a house wife AND working at farm is like being a house wife AND a WORKING woman. So ridiculous. Housewife with kids also can't stop working at holidays and she risks being homeless when she get divorced since no company want someone who did not work for many years
"And let's make no mistake: women make more than 70% of all retail buying decisions, even though they make 40% of the income. That means they're spending a LOT of the man's money. So where do you get this "no payback" stuff from?" - I was talking about the past lol and married women mostly buy shit what the family needs. My mum buys my dad's clothes, or groceries etc for example. I know enough housewifes who would go to many markets to get good products for low prices So you dont include that these women propably buying stuf for their family. You make it seem like that women waste men's money only on themself. If a woman waste men's money, it is men's fault. Stop dating gold diggers.
By the way i did not say that the husband should pay any penny for her modern housewife who dont work at farm etc. I also dont mean that men should pay anything but if your wife 'work' at farm or has a regular job, then he should help her at home
Any man who let women waste 70% of his money is an idiot. I personally feel bad when my potential partner even buys a coffee. So i dont want any penny from any man. So how tf are these men ok with such women. I dont even understand how these women explain their partner that they want them to buy expensive stuff like mobile phone etc. Sometimes i have the feeling that men like it when women waste their money. I have seen this a lot in my surroundings
I've seen a few questions about that lately and I'm starting to wonder if the "traditional men" existed large numbers in the first place.
I'm beginning to think that the majority of men were never like that. That's just how we see them all portrayed in movies or TV and how your 95 year old grandma describes her first date all the way back in 1942 through rose colored nostalgic glasses as she compares that to today's generation with contempt because the guy is wearing too tight of jeans.
But that's just my crackpot theory so who knows lol
In the west traditional men are not being raised because the traditional family is on the decline. It’s caused by a number of things. The biggest being males being raised by females as that’s who wins in courts 98% of the time. Divorce is over 80% female initiated. Females cannot train a male into a man. A man is trained from boyhood by a father or a male role model. This was the purpose of a God Father that’s appointed at birth in many cultures. They knew men raised men so if dad died there was still some one to teach his sons. So you’ve got what has evolved from that which is men with overblown feminine traits and females being raised with masculine traits. Marriage has declined to around 48% it’s interesting too that 49 % of the USA is male but male births are higher then female births. Males die more it seems. The western countries are the only ones that have this problem. In many countries it’s the reverse. In other cultures men are still appreciated in western culture men are disposable when I say west I mean Western Europe the united kingdom , Australia, Canada but no where as much as in the USA.
Ok this entire question is a double standard for both genders, the truth is a lot of people both men and women don't want to be traditional at all.
For women in general nowadays, it's the whole "I won't be subservient" or "I won't submit to a man" or "I won't let a man make my decisions" kind of mentality. This then leads to the whole 50/50 partnership where now the roles are negotiable. Women going "why can't I do this while he does that instead?" sort of questions. Which then leads to a lot of "not traditional women" being very common.
For men, it's the unfortunately common occurrence that men are living without a real purpose, without a real goal, something to strive for. Not having the motivation to be better or live for something more. It doesn't help that a lot of men don't know what the hell they're doing as far as a relationship is concerned and it's not like women are wanting to help practice so they can figure out what to do. Worst of all is the fact that a lot of women think that the roles in a relationship for both genders are negotiable. That one day the man can do this instead while the woman does that instead which has thrown relationships into a freaking meatgrinder (congratulations women screwed themselves here). In the end, this leads to "not traditional men" being around.
I agree many men now are lost and confused as far as relationships go. But all many if us actually need to understand is that girls don't need us to provide and protect anymore. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be someone that can provide and protect. Both can do that. It's not hard to understand that. But let's be honest that "only I have the power" dynamic favored us a lot. So it's being hard for many to let go of it.
I'm very traditional (of course, I'm 52, and military). Most of my friends are military, and also raised their sons to be very "traditional" (i. e., strong, virtuous, unapologetically masculine). So those guys (a. k. a., "gentlemen") are out there. Many times, attracting one hinges on your willingness to let them treat you like a lady (e. g., open doors for you, pick up the dinner tab, always pick you up for dates and take you home afterward, rather than meeting you at a venue, etc.). There are far too many women who don't see such behaviors as signs of respect and appreciation, and feel compelled to criticize the men who perform them. Understand that these are the same men who will fight to protect and provide for you/women, but as they were raised to not impose their worldview on others (it's un-gentlemanly), they won't spend time and capital on someone who doesn't want what they have to offer. If you want a high value man, encourage and show appreciation for his high value behaviors.
Because your fellow feminists shamed and ostracized them to oblivion. Traditional men want traditional women. Too many women want the benefits of a traditional man, yet they don't want to be traditional themselves. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Traditional women will eventually find traditional men (like my girlfriend and I). Also, much of the answers are given in your previous question to why there are so little gentlemen nowadays. If you truly like and want traditional men & gentlemen to come back, then you can start by taking a step away from feminism and all the man-haters that it has. Because a last thing a traditional man with a good head on his shoulders will do is get with a feminist.
Only did what you said make 0 sense to what I was talking about. Or am I dealing with a feminist inside joke because I'm honestly not familiar with those
Victorian, Edwardian male, dresses in the country manner usually decent tweed, wears long over coat, has pocket watch, possess a good quality cane and or riding crop.
I tick those boxes lol.
I like those Victorian gents believe in various kinks.
I tend to wear Barbour when out and about locally or if out shooting peasants.
I mean I see a lot of girls in pants complaining about guys in dresses.
But honestly I have little interest in being some girl's wallet and getting all the blame for economic hardship when she is perfectly capable of having a job herself. Or having to make X amount of money because any less will "infringe on her right to choose whether she wants to go out and work at all".
The traditional male role is pretty much exclusively a combination of double standards and playing court-jester for women who would feel insulted if she had to do the same. I'll choose whichever ones I want, and let her choose whichever ones she wants. For roles neither of us want, it'll essentially go to whoever is best at it, or cares the most about it.
I mean that's pretty much what girls have been doing for years saying things like "chivalry is dead", "what happened to gentleman?" (Currently active post featured today), and "where are all the good men?"
Hard to call double standard here lol. The call for Traditional women is actually a pretty new thing. I've heard that maybe for the past 2 years now. While I've heard those things women side my entire life about men.
Women just get to hear it back the past couple years 🤷♂️
Yes it's a double standard but resulting vie points and starting points. People don't find traditional men or women either because they search at the wrong places or they have different views on what traditional means. I think society has changed and has lost its sense for good manners. Many guys are destroyed in their brain by porn and sexual open culture. Any woman looking for a traditional man should not look for them online because those guys don't spend much time with online dating at least in my experience.
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Good thought 💭 and question 🙋♀️
I had some rational thoughts on this concept myself as I hit bumps in the road of trying to find a boyfriend for the pat ten plus years.
Biologically; male and females are mutually needed for reproductive purposes.
But as far as modern survival and simply enjoying your day to day lives; a male isn’t “needed” for a female. She can get a job and work it all while getting the kids up by herself and feed them herself and get them to school and daycare on her way to work. She mentally and emotionally depends on herself to get it all done in a hand basket 🧺 Even without kids, a women can pay her own and bang herself quite frankly lol all without the headache attached to dragging around a guy. Media and online exposure has also shifted the minds of men and women, drastically and not in a good way.
There is a saying that goes " i spent a lifetime cleaning the mirror , not understanding the dirt was on my face " it's roughly translated and it's very powerful message in local language
No, it's both genders fault. Women's fault for buying into the 'empowerment' movement that resulted in them thinking that sleeping around was freeing, and men's fault for not having the self control to resist. Women's fault for following other women that were doing the same, and men's fault for adopting the same behavior from other men.
Women failed as the gatekeepers of sex and men failed as the gatekeepers of relationships. Both have created an environment where both are much less likely to acquire what they want beyond basic short term desires.
Both fully consenting parties can do as they wish. I simply explained the consequences of them doing so. What you see today is the result of people following their desires without restraint. They are all free to continue doing so...
The problem may be that both men and women don’t know what traditional women and men are. Maybe it’s that people want all the things without compromise. Maybe there’s a lack of accountability, communication, and goal setting on both sides of the divide.
The advancement of women's rights was a huge game changer regarding the way males and females were brought up. Women have the opportunity to possess a career of their own, so the traditional man is no longer needed in the sense of being the sole provider. As feminism continued to evolve and females desired independence in various different forms, egalitarianism became common. In this day and age, men are treating women in the same way we would treat another man (with some exceptions). In a society where egalitarianism is the norm, the traditional man is less likely to exist because he is seen as no longer being needed.
traditional males are not a good thing. they will just reduce you to an uneducated bimbo who doesn't know how to do anything except have sex and make sandwiches while your husband goes around and cheats on you. then you won't be able to leave him because you can't survive on your own (because you're an uneducated bimbo)
Miss subaru girl don't you see me as a traditional man 😂 Cause if you can't or haven't realized that i'm a traditional man which the majority of gag members from 11 years till the present day know about than you must have a problem or the word "traditional" man means something else to you, can you explain?
When you have faith, morals, values and your lifestyle was the norm in the 50's till the 80's or early 90's, also your ideology is considered rusted and old to a lot of people, doesn't all these traits makes you traditional? 😌
Bring back the fashion of gentlemen’s walking stick and perhaps the rest will follow.
Nice Victorian era print. :p
In China they prize having boys. In the United States it is girl power and anything men can do girls can do better. Hey China, you have a woman shortage and we have a surplus. Please take a few hundred thousand off our hands. The self ascribed feminist would make a good start….
Personally I'm a huge fan of gender equality (including 'feminism' or at least that's what "men" call it), demolition of gender roles and deconstruction of certain (mostly gender related) traditions.
That's why I'm not traditional and I'm not interested in a traditional woman even if she's the last woman on earth.
"I’ve seen many people here on GaG expressing dissatisfaction in the lack of “traditional” women/girlfriends/wives. What about traditional men? Seems kind of like a double standard."
I believe (from what they sound like) they are looking for a mommy v2.0 type of girlfriend while they are something similar to this (and may call themselves either "high value man" or think they are "alpha")
There are some traditional men they are just afraid to let it out. They haven't met a traditional woman yet. I am actually a traditional woman and I don't get shit for it. In fact I get praised from men all the time when they hear it.
Should I club a woman over the head and drag her back to my cave? Should I want a woman to only look after the kids, cook, clean, etc? Should I go out and hunt for food? Should I deal with everything with violence? Should I drink and carouse before crawling home drunk? Should I manually build things for a living?
There is no double standard , but a bias view of how life really is.
Men are still traditional for most parts and are expected to be traditional, where as women want to give up certian traditions that they don't like. E. g.. you'll see questions here like ," why should women take her husband's last name?" And women would say its a sexist and needs to go away. BUT , you'll never see those same women complaining about men proposing or having to buy engagement rings , do you lol
Honestly I see it happen all the time men complaining they aren't getting laid after paying for a date, but have no intention of marring the girl, then complaining about having to pay for a date they invited someone on. Men don't court anymore. Chivalry is dead, not to even mention class. Wanting a stay at home wife but not even being able to afford a house. When did common courtesy disappear?
The traditional man teaches children right from wrong, raises them to live a clean lifestyle, teaches them self-control, and shows both male and female children what the next generation of men should be like. He also reads to them and plays with them. They will put your comfort before theirs.
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