Why do men complain about lack of traditional women when they’re not traditional men and don’t even make enough to be sole providers of a family?

[Anonymous]

Updates

+1 y

What? Passport bros only exists because there’s so many men who are not traditional and want to be rewarded for hal gassing their traditional role.

Back then? My parents got married in 1998. But guess what? My parents don’t have a traditional relationship. My mom helps pay bills and my dad helps clean cook and take care of his kids

Women have always valued money and financial security. Most fathers were not giving away their daughters to men who were poor but just wanted wives “just because”

[MrOracle]

You are both right and wrong.

I agree that many men need to up their game as far as taking the lead and working on themselves. It's unfortunate that so many grow up without fathers in the home, and that even some who do have emasculated dads, but at least there are other resources available today to learn from.

But as far as income, it's completely unreasonable to expect a guy in his early 20s to be making enough for an entire family, and that's never been the way things worked. Getting to that level of income is, for the vast majority, something that is built over time. Every man in my family going back 3 generations was near broke when they got married, and they were all very successful, in part because the pressure of providing for their families was a major motivator, and also because they had a wife at home who took good care of him and the kids, allowing him to focus on improving his income, even if that meant some extra education or training or overtime.

Most women today expect a 25-year old man to have everything a 50 year old has, but that's never been how life worked for anyone but the wealthy upper class. But here's the thing most women don't realize: the few 25 year olds who have all those things can attract the very top women, which means that the vast majority women will never be able to get and especially KEEP him.

If you are a girl and you aren't considered a 10 by everyone around you, you aren't going to get those guys. They might bang you, but they won't keep you, and they certainly won't be loyal to you. If you want a loyal man, then you get with a guy who has nothing (but who has potential) and you grow with him. You give him support at home and he will build to that life that you want.

Instead, women are trying to get that from Day 1, but what actually happens is that they get ran through by the guys who have it, until they age out, and THEN they try to get a "normal" man, but increasingly, the normal guys aren't taking them either. She didn't want him when he had nothing, so he's not going to get with her (except perhaps for casual sex) when he's built himself up.

[Asker]

Okay so the focus of this question is on MEN. So we’re going to keep the focus there. I agree with what you said about men. So therefore your gender needs to stop expecting traditional women and submission from women if they do not have the means to be traditional men. That’s just what it is. Don’t ask for what you can’t provide.

[Asker]

Until they can build themselves up to the level of being able to be traditional men, they can not ask for traditional women. Period.

[Asker]

You talk about women wanting stuff from Day One when many men want women to submit to them from day one for merely existing. You bringing women and women’s behavior into the conversation just seems like a way to dodge accountability for these men and a way to justify men’s behavior of not having a damn thing to submit to but expecting submission. No woman is going to live in poverty with a man or go 50/50 with a man and then have the audacity to SUBMIT to that man. That’s not even logical for someone with common sense who’s looking for a fair partnership. You guys need to get realistic and use your brains.

[BlackBeauty90]

Your idea of successful men in relation to your relatives is likely nobody else's idea of successful. When you're always resentful of women after all.

[SpokenTruth]

@Asker. Of course men don't have the means to be traditional men. And that's of the major destruction your feminism has done. By the way it's not men that failed their role in society, the trophy belongs to women.

[MrOracle]

Again, the tradition is that men and women grew TOGETHER and together became more successful than either could have been alone.

Today, men have twice as much competition (because now they compete with women as well as the other men) and you still expect them to achieve more than previous generations ever could.

The result of these unreasonable expectations is that you will either get ran through by the small number of very successful men who will never take you seriously, or you will stay single, thinking that a relationship will always be available to you, until you hit 35 and start to figure out that even average men won't have you (except for casual sex). Sure, men will suffer, but women will suffer more, but they won't realize it until they hit 30-35 and decide they really want a relationship. Then they complain "where are all the good men?" - the answer being that they don't want you.

[Asker]

@spokentruth IF YOU DONT HAVE THE MEANS TO BE TRADITIONAL MEN, DO NOT ASK FOR TRADITIONAL WOMEN. SIMPLE.

[Asker]

@MrOrcale WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING I SAID OR THE QUESTION AT HAND? Are you mentally there?

[Asker]

No father in the past gave away his daughter to a man who was still “growing” in his success. You’re genuinely delusional.

[MrOracle]

Of course they did. By the millions and millions. Read a book.

[Asker]

Of course they didn’t ask no good man would have their daughter living poorly. Men would not give their daughters away to a man who did not have the means to provide for a family and wife. You know this but you’re just choosing to be delusional because you think you’re proving a point.

[Anonymous]

As a happily married man of 20 years, with a kid and a wife that works, I don’t get the appeal to having a “traditional wife.” And I put that in quotes because it’s not traditional at all, women have worked their ass off throughout time, farming, hunting, and labor in factories.


What most of these men are actually after is a fantasy that only existed in 1950’s TV shows like Leave it to Beaver. It’s a narrative that we tell ourselves if the heyday of America, man goes to work in his suit and hat, wife greets him at home in a dress with their suburban home neat as a pin.


What you also see now is a really big push back by men as they’re starting to lose power in government and the workforce. And to some extent they’re winning in some areas. It hurts me because I see what my teen daughter will have to battle for no good reason. But it’s interesting to see many of my fellow men react in such a vitriolic way to society not being in their favor, when women and other minorities have had to deal with it since the moment they were born. It undermines their argument of being tough, or not being emotional, or not having to stoop to identity arguments. It’s not even an even playing field and it causes this much distress.


For the record, I do make enough to support our family, but I don’t want a wallflower at home. She would be very uninteresting to me if she was like that.

[Asker]

Your family is lucky to have you in their lives

[letuswaltzforthedead]

I think there's multiple parts to it but I also want to understand your perspective better.

There's definitely a lot of men who are underperforming (women too but let's focus on the men). You want men who can provide a family protection and financially, right? it is true there's plenty of guys unhealthy and poor so yeah, it wouldn't really be fair for one person to ask for more than they're worth.

At the same time, it takes time. if you want a man to hit the gym, that's something you could help him with. financially that's different, since it's harder to make 100k a year (if that's what you want) and most men will never make more than 50k. 50k is enough to raise a family on. 30k is enough to raise a family on. Even 20k wouldn't be bad to start on.

Also, I don't think most men are expecting perfection either. Many men are willing to settle for a few imperfections and still have a good relationship. it's usually the women who aren't.

[Asker]

shown

[letuswaltzforthedead]

It is harder to build a castle on rotten foundations. In some cases, women have to just take their chances on who they think has the potential, it's not really stupid if you think about it- after you spent years on your career, would you rather date someone who is only with you because of the stuff you have or would you rather date someone who was their for you from the very beginning?
The man, although struggling at the beginning, would still be trying to fulfill his traditional role for the woman he loves, why wouldn't the woman try?

[Asker]

No no no. “Trying” to fulfill your traditional role is not the same as “doing” your traditional role. He can not expect the woman to fill her traditional role 100% if he can’t do the same. It is what it is. Don’t ask for a traditional woman if you don’t have the means to be a traditional man.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

But you know he eventually will, so what's the problem? The woman will never be completely prefect and neither will be the man but you can get close to it. People will usually want a traditional partner anyways, even if they're not traditional themselves, I've seen more women like that.

[Asker]

Okay so he can get that traditional woman and submission when he eventually becomes a traditional man

[letuswaltzforthedead]

I don't think I understand you? Wouldn't it be better to build the relationship early? because if you're only dating a man for money, don't be surprised when he leaves you for a hot 20 year old lol. I think that's a pretty unhealthy way to look at relationships. Traditional relationships isn't about submission or being enslaved by your husband. He will be busting his ass off to make sure you are well taken of and in return, you take care of the house and doing whatever else you had planned.
Plus, if you live in the United States or any equally well off country, you'll not be in poverty. There's nothing wrong with dating down momentarily.

[Asker]

I never said I wanted a traditional man. I just said men should not expect traditional women if they don’t have the means to be traditional men. Me calling out the hypocrisy and delusion does not mean I want a traditional man.

[Asker]

I do think the women who submit to a man who is asking you to help pay for bills are fucking retarded though and I will continue to laugh at them from afar.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

The idea is the same. Most people are not traditional yet want a traditional partner because that is the ideal.

[Asker]

And they need to stop being delusional and expecting that

[letuswaltzforthedead]

It's not delusional, most couples find a way to make it work. Again, I've already made all the points I was going to make. reread what I said if you want.
I've read the other responses you've left and it sounds like you have a very modern yet toxic view of traditional relationships. Let me know if you have anything to add or not.

[Asker]

You’re 17 so I think you need to get acclimated to the real work. I definitely appreciate your views but you’re a child at the end of the day. If you wanna be a fool in your relationships so be it. They’ll still leave you anyways when they find a woman better than you so don’t think your loyalty will guarantee you loyalty back. Men don’t work that way. But like I said you’re a child so it makes sense.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Thank you for not reading anything that I wrote. I'm sure you're a good person but if you want to bring age into this, fuck you. Thank you for the conversation, I appreciate it.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

ok, I'll try to put it simple

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Of course that there will be men who cheat, just as there has been women who cheat. If your man cheats on you, that will be completely your fault for choosing wrong. I may be 17 but don't believe I am ignorant. I've seen what poverty looks like, people I know personally die because they could afford the things they need, I've seen mothers desperately looking for food in trashcan bins to feed their children and themselves.
I've seen regular couples struggle on McDonalds pay as well. I understand why you wouldn't want to date someone who you consider poor but understand that it will be very unlikely for you to starve or experience anything dramatic just because your boyfriend is working at burger king. ESPECIALLY IN A WELL OFF COUNTRY WHICH YOU MOST LIKELY LIVE IN judging by your attitude.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

because they couldn't afford*

[Asker]

You had me until you said Burger King lol. Look everyone has different wants and expectations and my personal views align more with your views though I do think you are more okay with the absolute bare minimum then I am. But the problem at hand is men are asking for something they can’t provide. And they need to be called out for it. Expecting someone to be a traditional woman while you are not a traditional man, because if you can’t fulfill your role of a traditional man that means you are not being the sole provider, is ridiculous. In this scenario, the woman is not only cooking cleaning and taking care of children but she’s working on top of that to help the man do HIS role. And stats show that’s the current situation in the US at the moment where most mothers in a two parent household are doing just that. And then men wonder why the divorce rate is the way it is. Men will complain about the lack of traditional women and feminism but most women are not only not doing their traditional role but the man’s as well but yet men are still complaining. That’s a problem and if you’re not calling it out you’re adding to the issue. Simple.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Women entered the workforce by choice and companies lowered their wages because of the additional wave of workers available. If you do not want to work alongside your husband, than don't. A couple can raise their 1.64 children (The US's fertility rate) on 28,000 dollars just as well, on less even considering that it is usually poorer couples who are ACTUALLY having children.
If that is not enough money for a family of 3 then what you are talking about is the cost of decadence, not of a family.

[Asker]

What does that have to do with what I said?

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Again if a woman doesn't want to work, she doesn't have to. Men are not falling short at anything, you're complaining about a problem caused by women and blaming men for it. A problem that doesn't exist anyways.

[Asker]

Okay so I’m going to blame your ignorance on being a child or not living in a first world country. Because I don’t believe you lack intelligence so it has to be one or the other.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

I live in the United States, what ignorance?
Every couple I know who have children are raising their family on less than 40k and the most miserable couples I know are those who suffer from decadence, not actual poverty.

[Asker]

You’re not making $40k a year working at Burger King. Not even in California where I’m from😂

[letuswaltzforthedead]

Yes and I didn't say you would. You can rise a family just as well with less.

[Asker]

Sure. Would that be a good upbringing? That’s subjective to each person. But where I’m from that wouldn’t be and that family would be struggling.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

It's better than never having been born at all. Children don't need wealthy parents, they just need good parents who will care for them.

[Asker]

More wealth means more opportunities meaning a better life. But if you are a White American, I don’t expect you to fully grasp that.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

A white American? Don't you think that's a pretty racist thing to say?

[letuswaltzforthedead]

god, you're 18-24 and it sounds like I'm talking to a toddler. Which is fair since most 18-24 year olds are overgrown toddlers. Everyone, regardless of race, can struggle. Yes wealth can help but it won't help much if you're stupid so it's better to focus on raising smart children.

[Asker]

White American isn’t racist lol. That’s a reach. The only toddler here is you acting like money doesn’t improve life career and educational outcomes but again you’re a 17 year old child. I wouldn’t expect a logical form of thinking my from a child.

[Asker]

You can raise smart children and still ensure they have the best opportunities in life. But like I said you’re a child so it’s ok. You’ll learn.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

White Americans can struggle too, you're acting like they don't. And now, I didn't act like money doesn't help, it does but it isn't the end all be all. I think most people would choose a poor loving family than an abusive rich one.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

I made the toddler comment because I feel like we're arguing over basic things. If you want to be a racist and sexist bastard, than i will not argue against you. this is a waste of time.

[letuswaltzforthedead]

"You can raise smart children and still ensure they have the best opportunities in life" that takes time.

[Asker]

Nothing I said was racist. I just said you most likely won’t understand the basis of my views if you’re a White American. Also you’re calling me sexist but think it’s A-Ok for men to half ass their roles and for women to do all the work? The only sexist one here is you. Also why are you assuming all rich families are abusive? Or that not being poor means you want to be a middle group? There’s a middle group. The way you’re jumping to conclusions just shows you have a lot more brain development to undergo and that you’re a bit naive. And that’s fine. There’s a reason why 17 year olds aren’t allowed to do certain things under federal law. The logic just isn’t there yet.

[mandyfire98]

There you go. If you want traditional women then provide for us and we'll stay at home and be a housewife. That's what a traditional man would do. But you better make enough to cover you, wifey and the children.

Not so fun now is it. Bet most wouldn't be able to afford it. That's a fact.

[Asker]

You’re 100% right. These guys will want women to help them provide but expect women to be traditional and submit still. They’re delusional.

[mandyfire98]

They want easy shit. They want everything handed to them. They want a non slut but her to be super slutty and experienced in the bedroom. They want a traditional woman but don't want to pay for that woman. My answer is stop wanting fantasies. Grow the fuck up.

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

I, for 100% want a wife that has a job or something. Not because of the money, but because the mind stays clear, active and healthy. You are a dance instructor, you know how cool and updated the mind is. You get to talk with many people.
But if I get such a wife as I want, I would definitely not expect her to be able to cook or expect her to handle the house chores lol. It is unrealistic to expect everything from a single person.
In such cases, maids and servants will be hired to do the job. Simple!

[The_Shadow_Dweller]

"I, for 100% want a wife *who* has a job or something."

[SpokenTruth]

Too late for us traditional men to get jobs to support you women you women have already had your hand in handing those jobs over to invaders and partook in those activities all the way around world. Your so called feminist leaders the same ones that taught you did that. As for me being traditional for a women that possibility is long gone. I'll promise you this right here and right now I will never be with a woman again I don't even desire to be anymore. Thank your feminism for that.

[mandyfire98]

I can absolutely believe you'll never be with a woman again. And I thank you for that. You honor us with your sacrifice.

Sorry equality is too much for you. I know us being second class citizens is what you were a fan of. I know you like it when men run everything and have all of the power. Women are equal to men. It's a fucking fact. Get on board with that or stay a misogynist and get run over. Or keep crying on the internet.

[Asker]

@mandyfire98 I literally love you dude. You’re amazing.

[ZackBan]

You actually make a very solid point.

However most men who advocate for women to be traditional also advocate for other men to work their asses off to be high status and high value.

Men are generally aware that a traditional lifestyle requires a lot of providing but many chose to ignore it because it's easier to say "it's all because of these hoes" then it is to work on your own value and status.

But one doesn't nullify the other, just because many men are unable to fit the traditional role does not mean that women should absolutely avoid being traditional, it's all a matter of finding the right partner (assuming you want one)

No one can force a man or a woman to be traditional, but by the same token no one should try to force them not to be.

[inhua]

what's even a traditional man at this point? a super hot fuckboy that bangs a bunch of women? because many women sure love them a super hot fuckboy.

men are born with no value and must build it. women are born with value and must preserve it.

if every man became a "traditional man" it still wouldn't change anything when there are no traditional women and no you can't just change from a traditional woman to modern woman and vice versa.

a loser can become a winner but you can't turn a hoe into a housewife.

but of course when a traditional man can't find a traditional woman amongst his peers he seeks elsewhere e. g. abroad or younger and then he gets shamed and labeled a creep or worse.

[Asker]

Women have no incentive to be traditional when men are expecting them to go 50/50 on everything but at the same time having the audacity to ask for submission

[inhua]

feminism told men it was 50/50 so men did what feminism told them to do. every time women were granted 50/50 they took more than 50 so damn right men are gonna ask for that submission to gain that 50/50 back or would you rather they took it back.

[Asker]

In what ways have women taken more than 50? You do know that MAJORITY of mothers in the US in a two partner household not only work full or part time jobs but are the main ones doing all of the child reading and domestic work. So we’re in a situation where women are doing 100% of their role ON TOP of doing 50% of the male role of providing, and you have these men asking for submission when they’re only doing 50% of their role of providing? You guys have truly lost your damn minds🤣

[inhua]

yeah no that's just bullshit right there. women work less hours than men and in jobs that are less dangerous and therefore have less pay than those men. outside of the first 2-3 years of a baby's life, fathers do just about everything else for their kids' life that isn't primarily nurturing i. e. instilling discipline. and let's not forget women can refuse to do their role because insisting that they do their role is "oppressive" and "patriarchal" whereas a man who refuses to do his role is a burden to society. and if a woman refuses her role, it's absolutely compulsory for a man to immediately fill that role or the risk family starving to death.
either way, women choose to go to work, it's not the man's fault he can't breastfeed a baby.

[Asker]

So you’re just choosing to be in denial as every stat on the subject says otherwise. Pitiful.

[inhua]

which stats? the stats that show women overwhelming receive alimony from divorce indicating that man in the family earns more than the woman in the family? the stats that show women are the overwhelming recipients of child support? the stats that show single fathers do better than single mothers? the fact that the overwhelming number of criminals and promiscuous women are derived from single mother households without any fathers? I can go on and on but I'd advise you not play this game you can't win.

[Asker]

What does any of that have to do with the fact that majority of mothers in the US with a partner are working a job and then coming home to do majority of the cooking cleaning and taking care of kids? You can do math right? WHY ARE MEN DOING 50% OF THEIR TRADITIONAL ROLES WHILE WOMEN ARE DOING 100% OF THEIRS AND 50% OF THE MAN’S, AND STILL EXPECTING SUBMISSION? Can you answer that or do you wanna keep deflecting?

[inhua]

gee I don't know? maybe because women are choosing to work? nobody forced women to work and men can do the household roles. they spend more hours at work and therefore less time at home. when you double the workforce, you decrease the minimum wage and increase taxes yet in spite of this men are still doing better than women in both roles.
so what does that have to do with anything? it proves men are better at both roles than women whether its being the provider and protector or the parent and caregiver. so damn right men are going to expect submission from someone who wants authority without the credentials to obtain such authority.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Explain your second paragraph. Is it something that usually is true but not always?

[Asker]

Okay so this person is obviously fucking delusional and living in fucking fantasy land because he’s pulling made up things out of his ass despite there being hundreds of stats and physiological articles on the study. Someone get this man some help.

[inhua]

where are these hundreds of stats and studies you speak of? I'll give you a hint. there is none. though I'm not surprised by your response because the moment a debate is lost, the loser resorts to slander.
since you're so adamant that women are doing the man's role when was the last time a woman was expected to provide for her man? do we expect women to be a man's unofficial bodyguard and protect him and the family from home intruders? do we expect women to do the heavy lifting like moving pianos, couches, beds, bookshelves, washing machines etc? no we don't and that's not to mention stay-at-home dads are heavily scrutinized?
you'll learn the hard way, men are only traditional men for women who are worth it and YOU are not worth it.

[Asker]

Why are avoiding the actual question being asked? Can you answer the question or are you going to continue to provide excuses and avoid the subject because you don’t have an actual answer?

[Asker]

Men are supposed to do all the things you mentioned and provide all the finances. That’s what a traditional man does. You don’t get a cookie for that if you label yourself as a traditional man.

[Asker]

I don’t even want a traditional man. Im just asking why non traditional men or asking for traditional women and you’re trying to avoid the question because you don’t have an answer and want to be a little bitch.

[inhua]

I've answered the questions and you didn't like it. it's not my fault you got offended by the answers. there's plenty of traditional men from farmers to builders, electricians, plumbers, factory workers, garbage collectors, cops, firefighters, soldiers but you don't consider them traditional men because they're not CEOs, lawyers, doctors, movie stars, pro-athletes, social media influencer etc. these traditional men have worked their asses off their entire life to become who they are and what they are met with is a sea of non-traditional women from career women to sex workers with a high digit body count higher than her phone number.

[Asker]

But we’re not talking about them. We’re are talking about NON-TRADITIONAL MEN asking for TRADITIONAL MEN. The question didn’t say “Why are men who ARE traditional asking for traditional women”. The question asked about the men who aren’t. So no you didn’t answer my question and you’ve been deflecting the whole time.

[Asker]

*TRADITIONAL WOMEN

[Asker]

But you know you haven’t answered my question because you’re purposely avoiding it because it doesn’t fit your little narrative

[inhua]

who are these non-traditional men you speak of? fuckboys like Charlie Sheen? Leonardo DiCaprio? Jeremy Meeks? Logan Paul? rappers? not a single one of these non-traditional men have asked for a traditional woman. you're making shit up and hopefully that everyone agrees with you. well guess what? not everyone is gonna agree with you. get used to it.

[Asker]

So I say non traditional men and you start speaking of celebrities. I’m talking about most men in society especially the ones who are low income or who do not make enough to support a family on their own.

But you knew that do. Because I don’t believe you’re that retarded to think otherwise.

[inhua]

what's even low income these days? not making 100K a year? where's your proof these "low" income men are asking for a family?

[Asker]

You can look all over the internet and see men with low income or who expect their wife to go 50/50 with them, asking for traditional woman

[inhua]

there's no such thing. men aren't out here expecting 50/50. it's women here expecting 50/50. feminism even says so.

[Asker]

There’s men who literally say they won’t pay for a woman on a date because they don’t want her to use them for a free meal. That’s not a traditional male mindset.

[Asker]

You can look on here and see men saying they want to go 50/50 or that they won’t provide for women. That’s not feminism.

[inhua]

where's your proof these men are looking for a traditional woman? there's nothing wrong for a man wanting to protect himself. for decades women have been weaponizing traditionality against men going as far as back as the white feather movement of the early 1900's that branded any male refusing to fight in WW1 as a coward and to be avoided romantically. boys as young as 14 were pressured into joining the military and lost their lives in battle all because of some sick plot at revenge against the "patriarchy".

[BlackBeauty90]

Most men want traditional women in the sense that they dress and act respectfully. Not be one of the countless cheap sluts of today's generations that dress & act like a prostitute too stupid to charge for services.

Most men today understand with the economy as it is, it's nearly impossible to comfortably have a family on a single income unless that person is making 80k+ a year. By comfortably I don't mean lavishly but where you don't have to constantly worry are you going to have enough money to feed your family and pay the bills.

Any guy who doesn't understand such things isn't worth much as a potential husband or father. In generations prior such men were typically controlling, abusive, and/or alcoholic because they resented the life they made by trying to support a family beyond an easy means to do so. And their idea of coping was to take it out on their spouse and children.

[JSmuve]

Because men don't want "traditional" women. They want feminine women who treat them well and make them feel loved. The two aren't the same, even though they're misconstrued that way. Unless the guy brings in at least $150k, he wouldn't be able to afford being the sole provider. But a woman having a job doesn't give her license to be an emotionally-negligent, overbearing partner. I think that's what guys don't communicate very well. It's not about being "traditional". It's about fulfilling his emotional needs. A woman can be a traditional, stay-a-home wife and still be a shitty wife.

[Asker]

So what does feminine women who treat men well and make them feel loved look like to you? What does that look like to you?

[SpokenTruth]

Maybe it's because you women are responsible for helping the take down of the so called patriarchy which in reality isn't a patriarchy it's none other than God's natural order. Maybe it's because you women had and do have a hand in keeping the borders open in order that the jobs are given away to tom dick and harry invaders in countries around the world. And maybe it's because you women took all the cushy jobs left.

Maybe it's because men don't want to be with the women anymore that saw men as their competition in place of their opposite. I'm thinking just maybe all those things.

[Asker]

Cool so tell them to stop bitching about not finding traditional women and getting submission. Let them know.

[Agape93]

Exactly. Why should we be expected to be traditional housewives and be stuck in poverty because homeboy works at potterybarn.

Want a live in domestic sex servant? Cool, make enough for two people to be comfortable.

[Asker]

Exactly. Don’t ask for traditional women if you can’t do the roles of a traditional man. If you can’t do your responsibilities, what is there to submit to?

[Agape93]

A McDonald's worker. Sorry but no, I make more than them by a good margin, I'm not going to make my life harder so he can play 1950s homelife

[peedy]

First off the roles of the traditional family have been destroyed by the powers that be and the reason he doesn't make enough money is by design the powers that be have made everything so expensive and the wages so low it forces both parents to work just to make ends meet leaving the children to be raised by the sate aka the school system, the TV, and the internet teaching the children many things that the parents would not or do not agree with
You are just scratching at the surface young grasshopper to a far deeper and more sinister problem

[peedy]

The power that be are keeping us poor forcing us to work longer and harder driving a wedge deeper keeping us apart and away from our children making us unhappy and causing us to fight one another every generation the wedge is driven deeper keeping is to busy working and fighting each other we don't see what they (the powers that be) are doing
Its all by design wake up a open your eyes and question everything

[Asker]

Okay and I would agree with this or I at least understand. So can you tell me why men are still complaining about and wanting traditional women when it’s nearly impossible in today’s economy and they don’t have the means to do so? No woman is going to go 50/50 and still submit to you. That’s just delusional.

[LazerBean]

Because nobody wants to admit that they are their own problem. I live in an area with a relatively high percentage of traditional people, and I have yet to hear a single one of them complain about the lack of traditional women. They have no need to since they already have a traditional wife plus they're too busy engaging in their own traditional life.

[Anonymous]

You can become a “traditional women / wife” if you have 2-3 kids like within 2 years of age difference. To me personally I better make 0K per year and survive with my “husband” even with 30k per year as long as I raise kids MYSELF. To me that’s extremely important.
If no kids eh you can become a traditional women part time lol. Work full time and after your job you can resume into a traditional one. It works.
Also as a women if that’s your goal you have to let your men know so you can discuss about it.
Where I’m from though in Eastern Europe / Balkan that’s kinda normal not a big deal men don’t have an opinion they let the women decide without any hurt feelings.. as compare to western or American men they might say yes or no or relate it to laziness but that’s understandable life in the USA is a slave life you have t become a vending machine to survive there is no race gender or age once you hit 16 you better become an active modern slave .

[boggboss]

Because its always easier to blame others for one's problems over being self aware

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Yes. Be proactive. Blame others not.

[Anonymous]

I make more than enough to provide for a family and was raised a a traditional man. I gave up on the idea of a traditional wife because women have been taught that doing anything for a man is beneath them. Once I'd had enough of pulling 60+ hours a week at a demanding job, keeping up with vehicle maintenance, home repairs, yard work, etc and then being told that housework is too hard and degrading for a woman to do (so half of that is my job, too), I adopted the idea that she's gonna pull her own weight or hit the road.

[HighValue]

So you think being the sole provider is the only thing that matters when it comes to "traditional?"

If you want a totally traditional man, you shouldn't expect to be able to make any decisions in the relationship, be a pure virgin, no tattoos, do all housework, no past of recreational drug use, and not be friends with any men.

[Asker]

That’s not the question at hand. I want to know why non-traditional men are complaining about traditional women and expecting submission from women when they are not traditional men. That’s the question.

[HighValue]

What exactly makes those men non-traditional?

[Asker]

They’re not being sole providers which is what traditional men were. So if you’re not doing all the providing, you need to be helping cook clean and doing childcare work because the woman is helping you do the role of providing. So help her do her role of domestic work.

[HighValue]

Does she help with outside work?
Or is she the typical hypocrite that wants help with her part and doesn't help with his?

[Asker]

Sure lots of women help with outside work. My mom helps my dad with outside work but even then outside work is a now and then thing while domestic work and childcare is typically an everyday chore. Are you feeding your baby every couple weeks or washing your dishes once a month?

[HighValue]

Why not trade then? You do the more difficult outside work in the heat and work 40 hours per week while tha man does the easy work in the home where it is comfortable and takes up MUCH less time?

[Asker]

Taking care of kids isn’t easy. I would expect you to know that at 41 years of age. But I’m sure most women wouldn’t mind doing that as it’s not also hot and outside work is, again, an every now and then chore. Most men just don’t want to do a woman’s roles hence why they always expect a pat on the back for cleaning or changing a diaper.

[HighValue]

Taking care of kids is very easy for me. I'm a teacher and I easily do better than the many women teachers I have worked with. It is actually pretty common for men to do better with children than women do.
The students are better disciplined, get better test scores, are better taken care of emotionally, given more effective advice when it comes to friendships and struggles, and are often happier when they have a man teacher. More students come back to visit former man teachers than to visit former women teachers from what I have experienced and witnessed too.

[Asker]

No I’m talking about taking care of your OWN kids. Taking care of someone else’s kids eight hours of the day isn’t comparable to raising your own. Extremely weak argument.

[Asker]

Stats also say otherwise so while I appreciate antidote that’s comparing raising your own kids to teaching (?) it’s not a good one

[Kiran_Yagami]

With inflation and the cost living and goods being what it is, VERY few people have the income to be the sole provider of a family. That's not the fault of men. Virtually all men would LOVE to make enough to be sole providers. Our struggling economy has erased that possibility for the vast majority of people, though.

[Asker]

And I completely agree. So why are men still asking for traditional women and submission when they can’t even fulfill their role as a traditional man? Who would go 50/50 with someone and still submit to them?

[Kiran_Yagami]

Why does a man have to pay for everything in order for you to submit to him? You submit to your boss free of charge, and you boss doesn't buy you shit.

[Asker]

I “submit” to my boss because they’re paying me to do so. Why would I submit to someone who is not doing their traditional role?

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting question. I live in one of the most conservative and traditional states in the US. There are far more traditional men and women here than most places, and no one of either sex is complaining here about a lack of traditional options. And interestingly, as usual, this year it was once again ranked one of the happiest states in the nation (# 4 to be exact).

[Asker]

Sounds similar to a comment someone else wrote. When men act traditional and show that through action they obviously have no problem with finding traditional women. Some of the guys begging for submission despite not having more than a couple hundreds in their bank accounts at the moment, need to take notes.

[suzzieQ]

Because there are a lot of people who want all the benefits without putting in the work to earn them. It's easier to blame others for your own shortcomings.

[Schmidt0256]

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[UniquelyBasic]

Yeah its funny. They will go to a bar and complain they can't find a traditional woman. lol I guess you just have to look in the right places

[Asker]

It first starts with being a traditional man. If you can’t do the roles of providing for a woman and a potential family and protecting them, why are you looking and complains about traditional women? Majority of guys who say they want this and complain about feminist, are wanting women to submit but at the same time go 50/50 and see paying for dates as giving a woman a free meal. You can’t have it all.

[UniquelyBasic]

Yeah you have to put into the world what you want in return. If you want someone traditional then you have to be traditional yourself in my opinion. This goes for both men and women too.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

We are traditional men the women who make less don’t make complaints like this women ( well honestly everyone nowadays) are too greedy 60 to 75k is enough people have horrible financial management skills

[Asker]

Most men are making 40k a year, if that

[PainusNdeeAnus]

That’s not the problem the problem is women don’t want build with men they value income over a good man

My big cousin was a millionaire by 26 dude doesn’t need to work anymore and only because he found a woman willing to live below her means with him for years

Now they’re both living high on the hog women don’t want to do the work you just want the men at the finish line and when you think about it that way the real problem is women don’t want to build a life with a 19 year old man making 30k a year

[Asker]

So the funny part is I actually want a relationship like that because that’s what my parents had and they’re pretty successful. I want to build with someone and this is why I don’t like it date older men. But that’s has nothing to do with my question.

Why do non-traditional men complain about the lack of traditional women and ask for submission?

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Smh. Men are traditional which is why passport boys is a thing women

It’s like I said women in the west just don’t want to work and build with a man with humble beginnings

You just said that’s what your parents had its what most people back then did being a traditional man has very little to do with an exceptionally high income

but you women today value money and financial security so much you’re screwing yourselves on the dating scene

If the average 22 year old male and 22 year old female got together their average income is around 600 a week making their combined income 1200 a week making their monthly income almost 5k that’s more than enough for 20 something’s to live comfortably not well not great not extravagant COMFORTABLY

[Asker]

What? Passport bros only exists because there’s so many men who are not traditional and want to be rewarded for hal gassing their traditional role.

Back then? My parents got married in 1998. But guess what? My parents don’t have a traditional relationship. My mom helps pay bills and my dad helps clean cook and take care of his kids

Women have always valued money and financial security. Most fathers were not giving away their daughters to men who were poor but just wanted wives “just because”

[Asker]

I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with building with someone. Just don’t expect your partner to submit to you. You don’t deserve submission when you’re not doing your full traditional role. Women submitted to men who did their traditional role.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

No passport bros exist because the women aren’t traditional

Young men in their late teens early 20s weren’t making a 100, 000s of dollars a year that’s is a Unicorn , Narnia , A black male astronaut lol

Paying the bills was part of being a traditional woman the husband had to give her money to pay bills buy groceries and whatever else she needed for the family a traditional man has almost no money for himself

Well you’ll find in the south and in most other countries it’s a shotgun wedding type shit yes dads preferred to have their daughters marry a rich man

but if Ray Roy up the block knocked her up he had to marry her traditional women were ashamed to be single mothers or have an abortion they married their babies fathers

[Asker]

That’s not why passport bros exist if you listen to why they choose to do what they do.

Women just paid the bills at the establishments. It’s not like they were spending that money lmao.

Nothing that you said has anything to do with my initial question. It just sounds like you’re complaining and trying to avoid the subject of telling me why non traditional men are asking for traditional women.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Well you didn’t really explain what makes the men non traditional but I’ll get you the short answer

A traditional woman is an ideal woman for men that’s why she is a high value woman

[Asker]

Sure but if you’re not doing your job of being a traditional man why do you have the audacity to ask for a traditional woman? A traditional woman does not help a man provide financial income.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Again didn’t explain what makes men non traditional

[Asker]

If you’re not a sole provider you’re not a traditional man

[PainusNdeeAnus]

So as long as a man has a job he is traditional by your definition

[Asker]

No as long as he is the sole financial provider meaning he makes all the money to pay for all the living expenses and bills, he’s a traditional man

[PainusNdeeAnus]

That’s any man with a job🤣

[Asker]

Most couples in the US states are multi income homes meaning the woman is also helping to pay bills. That’s not a traditional household because traditional women don’t help a man financially provide.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

May I ask how much you expect your man to make a year?

[Asker]

I don’t want a traditional household so why does it matter. I am 100% okay with helping provide and pay for things. My partner just has to be 100% okay with helping cook clean and take care of kids. I’m not going to help pay bills and then do all the other stuff on my own. That’s not how its working in my household.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

You’re just putting more strain on your relationship but whatever statistically relationships like what you are talking about fail they don’t last but you go for it

[PainusNdeeAnus]

😂 could’ve just said you didn’t want to answer

[Asker]

Really because my parents do just that and have been married for 25 years and together for 28. How’s your marriage going?

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Even the a blind squirrel finds an acorn

But you’re not answering my questions and deflecting I’m sensing a lot of animosity and anxiety you’re very insecure about these types of discussions aren’t you?

And we’re as fine as we were 4 years ago in our studio apartment eating ramen and riceOroni almost every night

[Asker]

Wait but you’ve said multiple times in comments that you’re dating and you’ve talked about the type of women you actively date. So you’re not eating ramen and living in a studio apartment with no one but your imaginary friend lol. See how I just caught you in a lie?

The only person here avoiding questions is you because you don’t like what you’re being asked and don’t have an answer of substance. And that’s proven by the obvious lie you just told🤣

[PainusNdeeAnus]

You asked how we were doing and I said fine
(As fine as we were when we were poor) which most couples starting out are what wasn’t clear about that?

[PainusNdeeAnus]

When did I say I was dating?

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Literally answered every single one of your questions but ok

[Asker]

You’re lying because you mentioned that you’re actively dating and how much you hate modern women in majority of your comments. Men in happy long term relationships aren’t dating or complaining 24/7 about the opposite gender.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Prove it 😂

[Asker]

Dude your profile is public. Read your own comments and post.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Thought so 🤣 you don’t have any

[Asker]

You were literally talking about how the women you date are alcohol is (like yourself) and the age of a woman you recently went on a date with less than two weeks ago. Don’t play dumb now.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

Then comment on them 😂
Also “The women I date are alcoholics” does that mean I am currently dating them when women is plural meaning more than one

[bamesjond0069]

Because we ask this same question and work hard and now make money and check all the traditional boxes yet there still are no traditional women so then we just slay with single girls and pump and dump skanks.

[Asker]

Majority of you are not making enough money to even make rent each month let alone provide for a woman and a family. That’s why I’m asking this question.

[bamesjond0069]

I don't know about those guys. I earn a high amount and there still aren't really any.

[Asker]

Then you probably don’t make enough

[bamesjond0069]

I'm top 1% for my age 36.

[Asker]

Doubt it but ok

[bamesjond0069]

Traditional women are virgins. That's the issue. Most women aren't waiting till even 18 so it's not really possible for most men to date a Virgin. Therefore... no traditional women.

[Asker]

Dude we’re talking about TRADITIONAL MEN. Do you know what a MAN is? WHY US YOUR GENDER ASKING FOR TRADITIONAL WOMEN WHEN THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO FULFILL THEIR TRADITIONAL MALE ROLE. Can you just answer the damn question. We’re not talking about YOU we’re talking about YOUR GENDER (MEN though you’re acting like a bitch so you may be a woman or trans).

[bamesjond0069]

Men are motivated by women not the other way around. If they don't see a woman to do anything for then they just don't give a fuck. (Is your keyboard broken or are you spastic? I just want to know because I have a neighbor who spasms and it's a serious medical condition not to be taken lightly.)

[HippieVeganJewslim]

What makes women traditional? Maybe those such men want the women to be perfect, but know that there’s no such thing. If a believing woman is compatible, that’s all I need. Tradition, Schmadition.

[dowser19]

We can't be tradition men. That's "toxic," thus punishable by getting fired, having a lawsuit filed on us, brought up on charges and instant public ridicule, etc.

[Asker]

Okay so why are men still asking for traditional women though they “cant” be traditional men?

[dowser19]

I wouldn't know. I don't associate with U. S. American females in any, way, shape or form. Don't care about them. Whatever their problems are... it's their bed, pie in it. No help. from me.👋

[Asker]

Women in other countries are saying the same thing

[dowser19]

Huhhuh?

[nawtee_me]

In todays time no one should try to be a sole provider. If a girl is looking for that then she is not worth having either. It takes two to provide for a family so neither gets burnt out…

[Asker]

So why are men still asking for traditional women and complaining about how much feminism has ruined the traditional family

[Anonymous]

I have no idea why those men have such unrealistic expectations. I'm more than happy with 💕 women 💕 making their own money.

[Anonymous]

I'm 31, don't work or want kids lol. I mean like yeah I do work its some freelance stuff but not much and I don't want to be traditional housewife unless he affords descently and if not I expect good behavior.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Same reason why women complain about the lack of traditional men when they're not traditional women and don't even contribute enough with the households.

[ZenJen444]

Because men are delusional psychotic hypocrites. If I were you I'd just stay single. Don't trust them.

[Anonymous]

Because providing for a family is more than about an abundance financial resources. Most "traditional" women want to live in a 1960s suburb and not an actual traditional lifestyle.

[Asker]

No that’s not what the traditional male role was. The traditional male role was primarily focused on the man making enough money to pay all the bills and provide financial security for his family. You can’t change the definition of a traditional male role when the definition was put in place before you even existed.

[Opinion Owner]

Men have been providing for their families since before money even existed.

[Asker]

Yes but when money was instilled they became the sole financial providers

[Opinion Owner]

And a man can still do that on a lower income if you don't have the 60s suburban fantasy

[Asker]

On a lower income? How can you provide for your wife and kids “on a lower income”?

[Opinion Owner]

The same way most of my family has for generations. By being frugal and relying on each other. My grandfather was a steel worker and he did just fine.

[Asker]

Well most women don’t want to be poor or live poorly but some are ok with that so those lower income traditional men should be fine.

[Stevefiveo]

That I don't know. But once I made enough money to support a wife, I did want her to be a traditional woman.

[Anonymous]

Men are still expected to fulfil all the traditional male gender roles, but women are not expected to fulfil theirs.

[Asker]

But they do. Majority of the mothers in the US in two parent households not only work a full or part time job, but they are still doing majority of the child rearing and domestic work. So women are not only doing about 100% of their traditional female role, but 50% of the male role of providing. And you men have the audacity to ask for submission and talk about a lack of traditional women when you’re not even doing your job as a male? This is why women don’t take men seriously.

[Opinion Owner]

Why do women have to work today?

[Asker]

Because men don’t make enough money to provide for a spouse and a family.

[Asker]

Especially in our current economy which is why so many of you complain about how you don’t want to pay for dates because “that’s not fair” and you’re not paying for a “free meal” but then in turn still expect submission and traditional women despite making her do YOUR job. No traditional man would ever argue with a woman about providing and the expenses he’d have to pay for courting her. Traditional men don’t do that and they didn’t do that decades ago. But men today who whine about the lack of traditional women want a woman to pay half of something and expect her to be serving his every need? Delusionallll🤣

[Opinion Owner]

Exactly. Women, not men, asked for this. You women wanted to work, you pushed all women into the workforce, the economy has fully adjusted to the two-income model you invented, there are twice as many workers in the workforce, and now most women can't stay home to be real mothers even if they wanted to, and many dearly do wish they could.

It is you women who fucked it up for everyone... for yourselves, for men, and for children. And now you expect men to do everything they used to do, plus the things women used to do. There is literally twice as much work to be done now in order to have the same lifestyle, because of you. But it's not really the same lifestyle anymore, is it. It's not as good as it used to be for all but the privileged few families who can afford for a woman to stay home and be the real mother their children deserve, and the real wife a good man deserves.

What men wish is for things to be like they used to be, before you women fucked everything up. We wish we had real wives, who were real mother to our children. But because of how you ruined everything for all of us, that is no longer possible for the majority. Well done.

Yes, men have the "audacity" to ask for the real women and real mothers of the past, and we resent you for how badly you fucked it up for all of us.

[LiamJHayden]

Are the men who complain also the ones who are not themselves?

[Manuel2]

It is what you call a traditional man or woman?
Victoroan? Georgian and so on?

[dustybiker]

1950’s US.

[Manuel2]

Then look at the facts that women had hand bags as they nevet had tampoons or the pill in the 1950

[dustybiker]

No need to get defensive. I was just answering your Q from my perspective.

[Manuel2]

I just gave you facts. In fact the traditional can be very violent to women

[dustybiker]

I didn’t need facts.

[Manuel2]

So what you want? The people who live in the past are boring and have no sense of adventure. Traditionalist are cowards.

[Manuel2]

In other words. There are no man looking for a tradional woman. She does not exist

[joeldalton]

Who wants to support some onlyfans thot?

[Asker]

Who said anything about Onlyfans?