Ending The Life of A Human Fetus!

[Anonymous]

Human fetus is human life. Those who say that a fetus has no rights also mean that it is not a person. But does it have to be a person to be able to have rights to live? There are many creatures living on earth. They are not human being, but they all have some rights!

Now most people will say that, even the fetus has rights, mother also has rights to give birth to it or not. But is it moral? Is it moral to kill it?

Well.. when mother wants to give a birth to that fetus, somewhat it becomes so valuable. They say it hears and feels everything. If someone kills it, they will be commiting a murder. But if she doesn't want to give a birth then that fetus will be worthless.

I think that doesn't make any sense. You can't kill a born baby, but you can kill it if it is in mother's womb. Really doesn't make sense.

Everybody has rights to control their body yet that fetus is another life. It is not your body!

You may not want to give birth to that fetus because you have been raped, your baby is disabled, or your life is risky. But getting abortion just because you don't want a baby is not moral. If you don't want to have a baby, you should get protected.

[Anonymous]

"You may not want to give birth to that fetus because you have been raped, your baby is disabled, or your life is risky. But getting abortion just because you don't want a baby is not moral. If you don't want to have a baby, you should get protected."

I'm sorry, how is it you mentioned rape and "you should get protected" in the same paragraph? Women who are raped did not have time to ask their rapist to put on a condom or were too young to even be on birth control. So are you saying it is okay for those who have risky lifes (aka drug abusers) or those who will potentially have children with disability, and those who are raped to get an abortion or to you it's all the same, no abortions for any woman in any circumstance, because I can hardly see myself instructing a 12 year old girl who has been raped that it is now her responsibility to deal with a pregnancy she certainly did not ask for or risk her life to have a baby in a body that may be too physically immature to handle the process of childbirth.

Most pro-lifers are simply pro-birthers because where are you when that mother is strung out on drugs and the baby dies in a crib due to hunger? Where are you when that 13 year old is disowned because her super "Christian parents" think she's now a slut for being raped? Where are you when that mother with a child with disabilities cannot even get help from a pathetic medical care system to help her with the exorbitant cost of medical care when raising a child with disabilities? You disappear. You vote against any social welfare programs that will help at least these children in need. You support policies that limit access to good health care. You complain when some of these children grow up and end up selling drugs or in jail b/c their parents didn't give a crap about them. You vote for the death penalty (which is beyond ironic). You don't support maternity leave.

You want to cry foul about abortion all the time, but you care not for the very children and parents whom you desire to force to have children. When you make abortions legal, those that still want them will do them and risk their lives to do it rather than go to medical centers where they can at least have medical assistance if something goes wrong.

[WintersDaughter]

Rape is less than 1% on why women get abortions. Not to mention most women who are raped choose life.

[fabulouspancakes]

A fetus is a human life, or at least a potential human life. Nobody really knows when a human becomes conscious or truly "a person," starts to feel pain, etc., but clearly sometime before birth, since premature babies can survive outside the mother and respond to stimulus. For this reason I, myself, in good conscious could not have a late-term abortion. But I also do not have the right to tell another woman that she HAS to loan out her body to support another life and to endure the physical risks and injuries that go along with pregnancy and childbirth, plus the mental trauma of having to either raise a child you didn't want or aren't able to support, or alternatively, the trauma of having to give away a child you are biologically attached to.
And when it comes to very early-term abortion, I feel differently. The fetus is still a potential human life, but it is clearly not conscious or a person any more than sperm or egg is a person. If my birth control were to fail, I would have no objection to getting an abortion right away. And, this is by far the most common type of abortion.

[matchrestore]

It's fine for you to have this opinion, and to hold yourself to that standard. That's your prerogative. But do not confuse holding yourself to that standard being fine and holding other's to that standard being fine.

When abortion isn't legal, it still happens, but it becomes a black market, often unsafe and unsanitary procedure, which threatens the life of a woman.

Forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term can also threaten the life of the woman. That woman may also be the sole provider for other children, who would become wards of the state if the woman lost her life due to complications that could have been avoided through abortion.

Denying women access to abortion is gender discrimination. Restricting access to abortion denies women access to a procedure that can reduce exposure to health risks that are not experienced by men.

When a pregnancy is unwanted, forcing a woman to carry it to term can take a heavy toll on her physical and emotional well-being.

Denying the right to abortion removes a woman's power to make decisions about her own body, her family planning, and health care. Governments should play no role in making that decision for her.

[CT_CD]

If women kept their legs closed them they wouldn't have to worry about getting pregnant and there wouldn't be so many abortions.

[myTake Owner]

agree

[CubsterShura]

Sameee like people want to enjoy sex with people but don't was face the consequences? Hypocrites. I hate how fetuses are killed for what their parents did.

[lumos]

If men wouldn't fuck around so much they wouldn't have to worry about which child is theirs or child support.

[Mekara]

@lumos It takes two to tango. Don't blame the men solely for this. Women are just as responsible as men are.

[lumos]

@Mekara which kind of was my point if you take a look at what CT said in his opinion above.

[jacquesvol]

If women kept their legs closed men would be complaining or have gay sex

[jacquesvol]

CT_CD if guys kept their dicks in their pants...

[curiousnorway]

@CT_CD, in many cases it's because couples choose to not use contraception they gets unwanted children. If the women used birth control pills and the men used condoms the unwanted pregnancy would decrease. With better sexual education it would be improved. You don't need to abstain all forms of sexual pleasure to prevent this. Not only do it exist a lot of contraception, but masturbation and non-penetrative sex is also an option. Sex toys also exists.

[RedThread]

If humans were an endangered species like eagles then perhaps it would be a different story. For the sake of trolling...

Q: How do you make a dead baby float?
A: One scoop of ice cream and Two scoops of dead baby.

Q: How many dead babies does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: I don't know, there are twenty in my basement, and my basement light still isn't fixed.

Q: How many dead babies does it take to shingle a roof?
A: Depends on how thin you slice them.

What's the difference between a dead baby and a Styrofoam cup?
A dead baby doesn't harm the atmosphere when you burn it.

How many dead babies does it take to paint a wall red?
Depends how hard you throw them.

What's better than 10 dead babies in 1 bag?
1 dead baby in 10 bags.

What's the difference between a dead baby and a trampoline?
When you jump on a trampoline, you take your boots off.

Q: How do you know if your baby is dead?
A: Your 3-year-old daughter has put on a lot of weight in the last day or two.

okay I'm done.. Enjoy!

[Maxemeister]

Not a dead baby joke but consider this:

Q: What's the difference between a baby and a refrigerator?
A: The fridge doesn't scream when you put your meat in it

[RedThread]

@Maxemeister that's Savage

[Maxemeister]

Indeed. Respect for knowing all of those lol

[CountessSarah]

"But is it moral? Is it moral to kill it?"
Yes. Pro-Choice people like myself are under no delusions of abortion being this wonderful, fun day out for all the family. Abortion is a moral grey area, whether the anti-abortionists want to admit it or not.
The greater evil is forcing people to be parents who didn't want to be, regardless of what their reasoning is.

The image regarding the Eagle egg and the Fetus -
1) Destroying an egg is illegal you're not destroying it to curb Eagle populations or because the parents asked you to - you'd be doing it purely out of a desire to see it destroyed.
The fetus, however, is plentiful. Humans ain't endangered and the abortion isn't performed against the will of the parents.

"You may not want to give birth to that fetus because you have been raped, your baby is disabled, or your life is risky. But getting abortion just because you don't want a baby is not moral."
This, absolutely DESTROYS the rest of your post.
If you care so much about the sanctity of a fetus, you cannot claim moral high ground, then and pick and choose when abortion is conveniently moral just because of things like rape or a harmful pregnancy.
Rape fetus's didn't choose to be the product of rape. The double standard held here by the anti-abortion crowd is amazing.

[fabulouspancakes]

YES, especially at the last part of your comment. When "pro-life" people claim that abortion is murder and then go on to say that they condone it in certain circumstances (like rape or if the baby is disabled), they're basically saying they condone murder in certain circumstances. Of course this isn't really the case, it just reveals their true motive for opposing abortion, which is punishing women for their choices.

[CubsterShura]

Look, I'm also anti-anortion but I couldn't disagree with this post more. You have some big misunderstandings:
1) Eagle eggs are banned from destroying because eagles are endangered. Humans are overpopulated and it is leading to our own suffering and world hunger.
2) Sometimes in cases of rape or men purposely or mistakenly using condoms with holes, or even in cases of accidents unwanted pregnancy may occur.
3) Pregnancy may also cause psychological harms to some women, if not physical. The child may result in bring raised with negligence.

But really, we can do so much better than getting pregnant and then aborting.
1) Get more serious about birth control and respect each other's choice and make compromises, basically maintaining a healthy relationship. A man purposely making his wife pregnant is nothing but toxic.
2) Decrease promiscuous act. Start being a decent human being already. Even better if you discourage pre-marital sex.
3) Punish rape criminals in a public square for everyone to see it. Imagine how much rape and unwanted pregnancy it can decrease.

Despite all these, some unwanted pregnancies WILL occur, and people need to learn to deal with it. If the pregnant woman is physically and mentally fit, she has no excuse to abort it. I know it's a big struggle, but it's worth something more valuable. The baby is a different soul and you cannot just abort it. What did the baby do?

[goaded]

In the USA few federal funds go to providing abortions: "[T]he Hyde Amendment is a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortion except to save the life of the woman, or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape." (wikipedia)

It might go to organisations that provide them, but that's mostly to provide other health services like contraception advice, and cancer and STI screening, which saves lives and prevents abortions.

If you want fewer abortions, make sure children are properly educated about sex and relationships: "In comparing abstinence-only programs with comprehensive sex education, comprehensive sex education was associated with a 50% lower risk of teen pregnancy. " www.siecus.org/index.cfm

"It has been estimated that the incidence of unsafe abortion could be reduced by up to 75% (from 20 million to 5 million annually) if modern family planning and maternal health services were readily available globally" (wikipedia).

[goaded]

I just noticed this bit: "You may not want to give birth to that fetus because you have been raped, your baby is disabled, or your life is risky. But getting abortion just because you don't want a baby is not moral. If you don't want to have a baby, you should get protected."

Firstly, protection isn't going to help in cases of rape or to stop fetuses from being disabled.

Secondly, "your life is risky"? I assume you mean your life is at risk, as in there's a significant chance you are going to die if you give birth? That sounds like a pretty damn good reason to have an abortion as soon as possible. Ending a potential life to save an actual one is not a bad trade-off (even though nobody is going to choose it lightly).

[goaded]

One final thing; in 1986 48% of women having an abortion after 16 weeks hadn't chosen to wait that long, they "found it hard to make arrangements for an earlier abortion", which will be down to people like you making it harder to find an abortion provider. It's almost certainly worse nowadays, with doctors getting shot in church, and all.

[AEther]

It's a terrifying choice that I will never have to make, so I would never judge anyone on the choice they make. so I guess I'm pro-choice.

I do get the inmate disgust someone may have at the idea, but moral implications are so wrapped up in potentiality that it essentially becomes as complex as time-travel moral philosophy. a fetus is not a human life in many ways, it isn't conscious/sentient so any arguments that it can feel pain really just brings us to whether it's ok to kill anything with a central nervous system.. but It has the potential to be a human, so where do you draw that line? does every gamete have human rights because of their potentiality? well that's simply not viable despite the facile attempts to argue it by the catholics.
if I bump it to someone in the street, or really just do, or do not do, anything that has an impact on any human life, that interaction will eventually at some point result in a sperm cell that would otherwise fertilise an ova not doing so, the repercussions of which is unfathomable in the long run... major digression there.. but my point is that you can't draw a clear moral line when it comes to potentiality.

the other question that occurs is whether it is moral to have children? over population is an issue, the climate change implications of it is an issue. I wouldn't say that it is immoral for someone to have children, but I couldn't see how you could argue any virtue of it either. adoption is a genuinely righteous act as it is bringing joy and easing the pain of a human life that already exists, but to shame someone for not bringing another life in to the world while there are so many parentless children already? that would be a hard point to argue in that light.

so, I get why people have problems with it, and I would certainly never tell someone that they should, but I think is facile and plain cruel to reduce the issue down to just telling people they are murderers.

[DaddyRollingStone]

reason % of abortions,
most important reason (% of abortions,
all reasons)
rape <0.5 (1)
incest (<0.5)
mother has health problems 4 (12)
possible fetal health problems 3 (13)
unready 25 (32)
is too immature or young to have child 7 (22)
woman's parents want her to have abortion <0.5 (6)
has problems with relationship or wants to avoid single parenthood 8 (48)
husband or partner wants her to have abortion <0.5 (14)
has all the children she wanted or all children are grown 19 (38)
can't afford baby now 23 (73)
--unmarried (42)
--student or planning to study (34)
--can't afford baby and child care (28)
--can't afford basic life needs (23)
--unemployed (22)
--can't leave job to care for baby (21)
--would have to find new place to live (19)
--not enough support from husband/partner (14)
--husband/partner unemployed (12)
--currently on welfare or public assistance (8)
concerned about how having baby would change her life (74)
--would interfere with education plans 4 (38)
--would interfere with career plans (38)
--would interfere with care of children or dependents (32)
doesn't want others to know she had relations or is pregnant <0.5 (25)
other 6

[Dale1982]

Makes me wanna puke reading this. Eugenics backers like that crackpot that invented family planning have been trying to curb human numbers for decades. They make it so easy. People like you and me who aren't thick, morally corrupt halfwits who only care about themselves see human life as the most precious thing in the world and our opinions won't be swayed but those creatures out there who don't value anything look for any excuse to flout their responsibilities as parents and human beings so if an alternative is offered without consequences they'll stampede to get to it. The only good thing is it separates the mutants from the human beings better than a sign and a cattle brand. My kids changed my life. It wouldve been easier without them and I could be living the high life right now in a tropical country, so could she have but their lives had already begun so we got our heads down and started working for them. I just find it impossible to fathom how somebody could kill any human being never mind their own kids

[Wolframium]

Bacteria are life. But…you don't have problem wiping whole colonies of them, when you cleaning, right?
Every woman should have choice, what to do with her body. Don’t force anyone to do what you want. The option doesn’t kill or limits you.
And by the way, I don’t know, if you heard the news, but there is 7,5×10^9 of us. That’s a lot of people. There is no need for other.
What will you don, when it’s born? To mother, who cannot support it? Will you take care? Yeah, sure you will. Send money to some stranger, in large amounts, for long time.
No, this is just emotional appeal.

[hanhh21]

it should be legal. BUT under very strict and professional conditions. You can't underestimate the toll on the woman's body, certainly when it comes out you are high risk. What if the pregnancy is going so wrong you have to choose between mother or child? Who you will safeguard? Or you want to riks 2 lives to be lost because abortion is not legal.
In Belgium where i live abortion is legal and only done in very specialezed centra. You don't go there saying i want abortion and all is done as you wish. You get examined by a doctor, a social worker and a psychiatrist. Each individually. After that the come together to examine your reasons social impact etc. They always tend to see abortion as a last resort.

[Maxemeister]

Right right

Except for the fact that you didn't take into account the pain a woman MUST go through should she have to pass that baby.

Or rape. That baby was put into you not by your consent. Hate to say it, but you know what else is inside you without your consent, and will hurt you in the future, and sucks the life out of you? Parasites.

The idea that a woman has to split her vagina open because you people and a bunch of politicians are convinced that it's the worst crime on earth appalls me. I'm going to take a stab and guess that you haven't been raped and in the process impregnated

[curiousnorway]

Ca. 1% of the abortions are because of rape. Most abortion cases is when voluntarily couples gets unwanted children because they weren't careful enough. So there's a reason people wants stricter laws.

[Maxemeister]

@curiousnorway Third trimester, agreed there's no way you should be able to get an abortion. But beyond that it becomes something along the lines of medieval

[Anonymous]

Wow, excellent take! Thank you. I have never understood how totally nonchalant women can be about killing a baby they created.

Like it or not, it IS a human life. And in my opinion it's disgusting that someone can kill it for their own convenience.

Sure, having a child is more than just an inconvenience, but not nearly the problem that being KILLED is.

And if you didn't want to get pregnant, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD SEX IN THE FIRST PLACE! Yeah, if that sounds familiar to all you feminists out there, it's because you always use the same argument to justify forcing men, who have no say in the matter, to pay child support. Oh, the hypocrisy!

[Blonde401]

Because rape doesn't exist does it?
Because a women being told if she carries to term she'll die doesn't exist does it?
Grow up. Shame we can't tell men not to rape in the first place.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 I agree that abortion should be an option for women who are raped or who may die if they attempt to carry the baby full term. But can we please be honest here? Those situations are rare and in fact the VAST majority of abortions are purely for convenience.

So I understand why you would want to deflect from the real issue and try to make this discussion about rape. But it's not about rape at all, is it? It's you who needs to grow up.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 And by the way, we DO tell men not to rape. It is of course illegal to rape. And likewise, abortion for the sake of convenience should also be illegal... because it is murder.

[Blonde401]

It's not a deflection. You're ignoring the issues surrounding abortion and just stating that it's baby murder. Why someone aborts is frankly not your business and there's more than one reason for doing so.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Why someone chooses to kill their baby is not my business? Well, it's the baby's business considering it's a life or death matter for them. They can't speak for themselves, so if the mother won't speak for them then someone has to.

Again, I'm NOT ignoring the the issues surrounding abortion... as I said there are valid reasons for a mother to have an abortions, such as rape and danger to the mother's life. But the mother's convenience is NOT a valid reason to take her own child's life.

[Blonde401]

How many unwanted children have you personally adopted? How much money have you donated to orphanages? If the answer is none, it's still none of your damn business. You have zero right to take away a persons bodily autonomy.

[Blonde401]

Do you eat meat? Billions of baby animals die yearly because of meat eaters, I don't hear your protesting that?

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 I'm pretty sure a person's life trumps another person's bodily autonomy.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Oh wait, you're arguing that animals have the same rights as humans. Wow, you are a bigger nut case than I realized.

[Blonde401]

What makes animals have less right to life than humans? For the record I eat meat and am for abortion but if you want to stoop to name calling and ruin your own argument go ahead. As soon as a debate gets personal, you've lost the debate.

Nothing trumps a persons body autonomy. If life trumps autonomy, why aren't you donating a kidney to someone dying? Oh yeah, because of bodily autonomy.

[Blonde401]

How many children have you personally adopted sir? None? Then who's going to take care of all these unwanted children. Is it kinder to let them starve to death?

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Wow, you're really grasping at straws here. LMAO.

Bottom line, in most cases abortion is nothing more than women killing other human beings for their own convenience. You know it, I know it. everyone knows it. You can use whatever twisted and immature arguments you want to try to justify that murder but it doesn't change the core fact that it's murder for convenience.

And to make it worse, it not just killing a stranger... it's a mother killing her own child. It's despicable and I don't know how they live with themselves.

[Blonde401]

Grasping at straws 😂 Ok. If you call an actual legit argument 'grasping at straws' then it shows you're delusional.

Answer my questions. How many kids have you adopted? How many organs have you donated if body autonomy is worthless? Why don't you practice what you preach? Why is it all about some cells in a woman's body that are zero to do with you?

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 An argument is not legit just because you say it is. And your questions aren't legit either; they have no relevance in an argument about whether it's OK to murder another human being for your own convenience.

[Blonde401]

They're completely relevant. You just want to avoid answering them because you know they're truthful and show you in a shitty light. You're anon, you won't answer questions. What a joke 😂 Abortion is the answer to many questions. If you're unwilling to adopt or donate money to feed and clothe babies, you have no businesss talking about WOMEN's body autonomy. Go get a visectomy, the best part of you clearly fell down your mums leg ✌️

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401

No, abortion is the answer in only two scenarios: 1) when a woman is raped and gets pregnant, and 2) when her life is in jeopardy due to complications with the pregnancy. Not other scenario is acceptable.

No matter how much you try to deflect from the real issue, the fact is abortion for your convenience is murder and you should be ashamed of yourself. And in fact most women who do it are ashamed of themselves and will carry that shame the rest of their lives because they know in their hearts they murdered their own child for their own convenience.

[Blonde401]

No matter how much you try and say you're on the side of good while doing nothing morally to help a situation other than sitting in judgement, you still are doing absolutely nothing morally right. You are wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself sir, not I. I've never aborted a child and have nothing to feel shame for. I donate time and money to help needy children, a lot more than you can say for yourself. It's not murder. But you sit on your high horse while doing absolutely fuck all and give yourself a pat on the back cause why not.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Sorry I have no respect for a woman who tries to justify killing her own children.

[Blonde401]

I didn't kill my own child you clown. So what's your point?

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Good for you. Now just stop encouraging mothers to kill theirs, you clown.

[Blonde401]

Where did I encourage anyone? There you go telling lies again.

[Blonde401]

I said it's not YOUR business. Nowhere did I encourage.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401

You are defending the "right" of person 1 to murder person 2 with no regard for the right of person 2 to live. There, does that make you feel better?

It is just as much my business as is the defense of any human's right to live. It is the business of every human being to defend that right for all of humanity. So yes, it absolutely IS my business.

[Blonde401]

And I'm saying it's got fuck all to do with you unless you're willing to adopt that child. If you're not, then keep your opinions to yourself.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Ah, I see; so you're saying that as members of the human race, individuals have no responsibility to stand up for and protect the rights of other individuals to life. NIce a

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Nice attitude. Very irresponsible and selfish in the extreme. Your position is indefensible to anyone with both a heart and a brain.

[Blonde401]

Where have you stood up for any child that lives though? When have you actually done that? Oh wait no you haven't.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 I'm doing it right here, right now, by publicly calling you out for supporting the murder of unborn children who can't speak for themselves. I'm speaking out for the rights of those children to live, not die for the convenience of some heartless person.

[Blonde401]

No you're not. You're on anon. And you don't give a fuck about children that live. You do nothing to ensure their future. They might die of starvation and that's fine because that's not 'murder' right? You don't give a fuck. Stop lying. They die at your convenience when you don't want to pay to support them.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Let me see if I understand your argument... you're saying because I am not personally feeding every hungry child on the planet that I am just as guilty as the person (you) who advocates for murdering children because they *may* end up hungry. Sure, OK.

Since you are apparently not smart enough to see it on your own, allow me to point out for you the fact that a hungry child has a much greater chance of surviving than one whose mother kills him/her. And just because a child may end up hungry, that's not an excuse to murder him / her.

[Blonde401]

You're not feeding any! So you don't give a fuck about any child once it's born. It can suffer and die for all you care.

Abortion isn't murder. Unless a baby can survive outside the womb by itself, its cells or a parasite. You can't carry a child yourself so what do you know about abortion? Nothing. Just another man trying to control women. You do nothing for children that are born and you have zero moral high ground.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Being a man does not mean I shouldn't advocate for the rights of people who can't speak for themselves. Everyone, both men and women, should stand up for the rights of children. Anyone who doesn't is disgusting.

[Blonde401]

Until you have a womb, you have no right to an opinion. Unless it's about YOUR sperm donation. If it's not your baby, it's not your business. You're disgusting. You don't care about human life. Only about forcing women to go through labour.

[Opinion Owner]

@Blonde401 Sorry to burst your heartless little bubble but murder is EVERYBODY's business.

[Blonde401]

Heartless 😂 You eat meat. You're already a murderer.

[KashmiriHeeposh]

I think the fetus deserves and opportunity to develop into a beautiful child. I support abortion if the woman's life is at risk. However, if she was irresponsible and got pregnant, now she doesn't want to have the child, I think giving birth and putting the child up for adoption is the moral solution.

[Megalyssa]

Awesome take! Thank you. Those pro-abortionists make all kind of excuses to kill a baby. Rape accounts for a very small percentage of abortions. Most of the reasons are stupidity and irresponsibility.

Idiots are persuaded that abortions are normal because fetal tissue brings good profit to abortion centers

[ChgzDaniel]

I think this is dead on point. They won't tell you, that babies often survive the abortions too... and that baby will then be thrown in the medical bin because it's legally dead. Plenty of videos on youtube to support this and nurses have been fired for giving babies morphine to make their passing more peaceful.
I mean I don't care who you are, what stage of the pregnancy you are at, or how you got pregnant. That baby is alive and now your responsibility. What kind of person would kill a baby just so they can be selfish, lazy and not have responcibility?

[Frosteh]

I don't know where I stand on this issue completely yet.

But I think these are bad arguments that are mostly just world play, the first paragraph is all semantics. I don't even necessarily agree that rights are real or even a good idea. Rights given by who? God? What if you're an atheist and don't believe that. Rights given by government? That's just a group of people who exercise action through power and violence, it's not even clear to me that's moral to begin with.

To give people "rights" you have to in some way enforce those rights, that means punishing people that break rights. What is the punishment of a mother who aborts her child going to be? Are you going to lock her up, or kill her? What are you willing to do to protect the rights of the child, is the childs life more important than the mothers? Why do you get to decide?

[ladsin]

Nobody is arguing that the fetus is not human, only that no human has the right to another's organs without their consent... This is really simple actually. If I so choose can I take your organs/ use them for 9 months to preserve my life if you don't want me to?

[WintersDaughter]

The fetus has a right to the womb, the womb was literally created with the purpose of holding a child. The child is only there because the women had sex, the child didn't chose that specific women to be their mother. Abortion is directly murdering a child that you created because you don't want them.

[ladsin]

@WintersDaughter under what circumstances do you lose the right to your organs and others have ownership over them without your consent and continued consent.

[WintersDaughter]

The womb was created for the child. If you have sex, knowing that there's a chance you can get pregnant, then you give consent to pregnancy. You don't murder a child because you were irresponsible.

[ladsin]

@WintersDaughter I don’t view consent to sex as consent to pregnancy because most (at least a significant proportion) people having sex don’t want kids. That said giving person A consent to use my body for X amount of time does not give person D permission to use my body for Y amount of time. Funny example. If I consent to let Jim cut my hair, that does not give Terry consent to punch my nads.

[WintersDaughter]

Cutting hair has nothing to do with punching you. Having sex directly leads to having a baby. That's like saying I consent to drugs but not drug addiction or I consent to over eating but not obesity.

It's very simple. If you don't want a kid don't have sex. The whole purpose of sex is to have a child.

Do you think a person who does a crime consents to going to jail?

[ladsin]

@WintersDaughter the whole point of sex is not to have babies, otherwise humans wouldn’t have consistent sex. Almost no sex results in pregnancy, the amount that does is incredibly minuscule less than 5% if I recall the stats correctly, and that’s likely a massive overshot. Humans have sex (and women have hidden estrous) to facilitate pair bonding.

Some people do consent to jail, but your point is well taken. We revoke a person’s rights to self autonomy in some instances. However, in no instance do we force people to give their organs to another

[WintersDaughter]

The whole point of sex, is to recreate. You can bond without sex. If you need sex to bond with someone, something's not right.

What about the baby's autonomy? What about the baby's right to life? What did the baby do that was so bad that women are murdering them?

[ladsin]

@WintersDaughter it’s just not the case that the sole purpose of sex is to procreate, otherwise sex would be incredibly inefficient at achieving its desired goal. I believe only a fraction of a single percent of all sex results in pregnancy, but there’s no good statistics on it. If I had a defunct car decorating my front lawn that didn’t drive you could hardly say the purpose of that car was for moving from point A to B.

The baby’s right to self autonomy isn’t being violated by removing it from its’ mother’s organs. This is because the baby doesn’t own its’ mother’s organs. The mother does, it has always been her body.

[WintersDaughter]

Okay, 1. A car was literally designed to get from point A to point B. Not be used for decoration. If a car stops working, you take it apart and use those parts on a new car or you fix it. 2. The baby did not choose to be in the womb, the mother directly put that child there by having sex. An unborn child has a heartbeat at 21 days, viable brainwaves at 5 weeks (That's 42 days). That's a living human being. You do not get to murder a child, your own child, because you don't want to take responsibility for your actions.

The baby is not a part of the mother, the baby is a separate being. The womb is designed to carry a child. The mother chose to use her body for sex, she doesn't get to murder an innocent life because she doesn't like the outcome.

[Kuraj]

Using this logic, every time you ovulate without getting pregnant you are killing a baby because every egg is a potential "still me" that you are killing by not allowing it to "potentially" exist.

A fetus is a bunch of cells created and supported by your own body.
It has no conscience and zero autonomy, technically speaking it is no different from a cancerous cell growth, tumor or a piece of skin flab on your ass.
And since you get to do whatever the fuck you want with your flabby skin, it's everyone's choice what they want to do with it.

[ChgzDaniel]

Not true because the egg isn't fertilised

[Blonde401]

Why go anon if you're so high and mighty? Pathetic. Bacteria is life but you kill it. You eat meat? You're responsible for the death of animals. You eat Dairy? You're responsible for the death of baby animals. Why are humans higher on the priority list than other life on this earth?

How many unwanted children have you personally adopted or pay for out of your own pocket? If the answer is none then shut up. You're doing zero to help other than whine and complain.

[HandsomeGuy500]

What a silly argument. I think it's wrong for somebody to murder you, but that doesn't mean I'm responsible for you.

[Blonde401]

@HandsomeGuy500 then who is responsible for all these unwanted babies cluttering up the planet? When the earth is dead and people are dying, who is responsible? People have zero social responsibility anymore, they'll cry murder at abortion but they'll film someone being beaten to death on their phones. Get a grip.

[Blonde401]

@HandsomeGuy500 if you're not responsible and it's wrong to murder but you won't actually do anything, then you're not contributing to a solution. You're placing blame elsewhere for your own ego.

[HandsomeGuy500]

I just happen to think killing a helpless innocent life is wrong and immoral. That doesn't mean it's my responsibility. If women don't want kids then they should keep their legs closed. Simple.

[Blonde401]

@HandsomeGuy500 because that's the only reason that someone gets pregnant right? Rape doesn't happen? Death during child birth doesn't happen? Grow up. Do not come into my thread with that bullshit line. It doesn't cut it. You're basically saying it's solely the woman's responsibility with that line. Then fine, if it's solely her responsibility then it's her body and her choice and men have no womb and therefore no opinion.

[HandsomeGuy500]

That's a strawman argument because the overwhelming majority of abortions are not the result of rape but the result of careless women opening their legs and having unprotected sex and then killing the unborn baby instead of taking responsibility.

[Blonde401]

@HandsomeGuy500 yes because it's only a woman's responsibility 🙄 Get lost.

[HandsomeGuy500]

Women should just learn to keep their legs closed instead of killing helpless innocent babies.

[Blonde401]

@HandsomeGuy500 keep your pants on.

[Maxemeister]

Sucks to admit it, but abortion is aong the lines of curing a parasite

[Blonde401]

@Maxemeister it is yes.

[RoBesPieRRe]

So, you think a child is the same thing as a bacteria. Women are crazy.

[Blonde401]

@RoBesPieRRe why are you going through all my comments and harassing me?

[Solanaceae]

Congratulations. I applaud you. Totally agree with everything you've said. It's immoral and just plain wrong to have abortions made legal. You tell 'em girl <3

[troychapman]

i agree with you entirely good points no one has the right to take life if you really dont want a baby people can adopt its not for you to play god and decide which innocent and pure baby lives or dies.

[cipher42]

Adoption isn't an alternative to abortion. The issue many people face isn't just raising a child, it's going through the pregnancy at all.

[troychapman]

@cipher42 still have no right to take a childs life

[cipher42]

Ain't a child, or even a person. It can't think, it can't feel, it doesn't have rights, and even if it did a person's right to bodily autonomy overrules a non-sentient being's right to live.

[troychapman]

@cipher42 i disagree if you didn't want a child you should use protection the life has already begun who is anybody to say i won't let you live but i think we will have to agree to disagree

[cipher42]

Ya, this is a moral issue that can't really be argued well. My main point is just that adoption can't be substituted for abortion. And legally speaking people absolutely have the right to bodily autonomy in this respect.

[Djaaay]

@cipher42. You're fn sick. And a murderer.

[cipher42]

@Djaaay Lmao calm your titties. I just have different base values than you, that hardly makes me sick. But I guess with people like you anyone who disagrees with you is literally the Antichrist, huh?

[Djaaay]

@cipher42. I don't care about someone who advocates the act of murder. Fy

[cipher42]

@Djaaay Ain't murder bruh, and even then I ain't advocating it, just its legality.

[Djaaay]

@cipher42 Not inside you're heart , it's murder bra , f.. the law... its murder straight the f up.

[cipher42]

@Djaaay I mean you can believe that if u want but that doesn't make it right, and it certainly doesn't mean you have to go around bitching at people who don't agree with u

[Djaaay]

@cipher42. 😁... Just jerking your chain to see your reaction... its all good !!