Veganism debunked! So what do you think?

[1ibiz]

A lot of people swear that being vegan is the healthiest way to go about your diet, but you will indeed go deficit on key essentials your body needs. link Choline mostly exists in eggs, liver, and flesh. It also exist in lecithin in many plants, vegetables, and fruits, but you will not come close to the amount your body needs to function accordingly to its proper state. Also, if you are not getting most of your calories from flesh then you have to rely on carbs. Which fructose loads up the the liver uric acid with the least possible excretion. Do you know what helps excrete uric acid? Flesh! Flesh comes with the most available fat and protein, making it ideal for consumption. Meat should be in bulk of your diet! Choline is just an eample, their are plenty others like vitamin k2 and vitamin b12, which vitamin b12 do not come from any plant sources. So if your not eating meat, you are not getting vitamin b12. So now that you understand how important eating flesh is, do you really think it is healthy to eliminate meat? We have been eating flesh for millions of years, eating animals in their natural state has no risk of heart disease or other diseases what so ever. Eating animals from factory farms that are not free ranged, not eating their proper diets, being ejected with hormones and antibiotics, and tortured is a whole different story. I want the animal that I am going to eat be as wild as possible and happy life. Not just because what most slaughter houses do are evil, yes they are evil, but also because if a animal is sick, if you eat that animal, you become sick. What do you think?

[Izzy2102]

Most vegans I know don't claim it's the healthiest lifestyle, but it's not necessarily unhealthy. For most it's about animal cruelty and welfare. Modern meat production is disgusting. As Paul McCartney said "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian". It's true. And prticulary in the US we are way behind when it comes animal welfare. The EU is decades head really. Have you seen "earthlings"? It's a good watch

You say you want your meat and have lived as naturally as possible, but that ultimatley means you always have to buy organic, which is expenisve and not an option for everyone. And even organic doesn't really get it right often. It's not just about meet though, but milk and eggs also. I think ignoring that is just ignorant. I'm not asking anyone to be vegan or vegetarian, but I have no sympathy for people who carelssly buy animal products our supermarkets feature.

As for your health concerns b12 among others is found in some sorts of tea, Chlorella and Spirulina. If you're not convinced you can always take supplements.

K2 is found in sauerkraut, natto and most green vegetables. The body can convert K1 into K2 and K1 is found in a wider rnge of foods

Eating a sick animal won't make you sick. Most of the times. Most deseases don't tackle the actually meat and those that do would make it taste terrible. I'd be more carefull with organs. The problem is that the meat we buy is made from animals who aren't only sick but also fed tons of medicine to still keep them alive. So you got double the trouble. Meat from animals who never ate what they were intended to, suffered from deseases all their life and an increased intake of antibiotics, making you immune against the ones thet will give you when you're sick

[1ibiz]

People continue to debate, but do the research yourself. I said this to the other girl, "Cyanocobalamin is converted to its active forms, first hydroxocobalamin and then methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin in the liver." If you understand that you would no that it has to be formed in another animals liver to be bio-available to you! Supplement have to still be fermented in the gut, they have to derive the supplementation from a source. Also it's not about organic, its about how natural the

[1ibiz]

animal lived. Their proper diet, free to roam around, not ejected with anything. It is also true if an animal is sick, you are what you eat. So if a cow is depressed, the cows brain releases a chemical into the bodies water system. You east that cow, you are absorbing those chemicals as well. As far as choline, to get the right amount of intake has to come from flesh!

[1ibiz]

Also their is a huge protest around the world to eliminate Monsanto and their poisonous patents, including the hormones and injections given to animals. Their will be food democracy and people will once again will be able to eat happy animals that will be given a quick and painless death.

[Izzy2102]

seriosuly though have you watched the movie? Or any other move concerning met production, because you seem very clueless when it comes to that

[1ibiz]

I'am nowhere clueless about meat production. Not all farms are the same, have you even visited a farm?

[Izzy2102]

I have. And most farms are the same, unless they're organic. Because all other farms are owned by 3 or 4 big agricultural companies that dictate production

[1ibiz]

You say you know about farming, but do not realize the differences. Organic does not generally mean the animal met standards for proper farming. All animals need to be pasture raised free range, cows on a 100% grass fed diet or grass finished. No injections of any kind, and living on lands free of herbicides and pesticides. Those are the proper labels to look for!

[Izzy2102]

well ya, but you're not gonna get that. At lest very rarley. Too rare to build a diet on it unless maybe you live in those areas round L.A where people care a lot. Organic is usually the best you can get.

Organic does not inject hormones. In fact, that practive is outlawed in the EU and many countries. I didn't make any claims about your other points. All I said was that most traditional farms are owned by 4 big agro buisnesses, and organic farms usually aren't.I didn't say or imply more than

[Izzy2102]

that. You read something into my comment that isn't there

[1ibiz]

I think you were referring that I do not posses much knowledge on animal welfare, but I do, and I think it is sick the way they treat these animals. Yes I do eat some of these animals, but nowhere do I believe in cruelty. We turned into a state where we bow down to corporate greed rather then just taking what we need for survival, and animals should not be treated like they do. You can also find farms that practice thos types of farming around the country, just find a one online, call them to

[1ibiz]

to learn how the animals are being raised, and even take a trip out to the farm to make sure they are up to guidelines they mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Of course veganism is a joke. Vegans are some the most sickly unhealthy people on this planet because they lack nutrients. I already knew that. No eggs? No milk? No meat? No dairy? Veggies only? Maybe some fruit? WTH? How on earth is that healthy?

[djvtech]

Sounds like you know nothing about the vegan diet...

[Opinion Owner]

Sounds like you're a vegan haha! Oh snap! I'm so awesome!

[1ibiz]

She knows a lot about the vegan diet. You need to meet 3500mg of choline a day for the recommended dietary amount for proper hormonal balance. Cut out the eggs, and meat, it will be extremely difficult to meet those requirements. Most vegetarians rely their consumption on tofu, grains, and diary, and with all the anti nutrients they come with that sucks the minerals away from their bones, I'm afraid I will break their arm shaking their hands.

[Anonymous]

Animals get b12 from eating plants with microorganisms and bacteria, which they ferment in their gut, digest and absorb into the meat, but mostly the liver. Animal meat does not produce b12 on it's own. Animals do not "produce" b12. The bacteria does. Also, it may be possible that humans can derive b12 from bacteria. Read: link

Most vitamin b12 supplements is derived from bacterial fermentation.

Vitamin K2 is extremely high in Natto. If vegetarian, then fermented dairy.

Is veganism natural? No idea, and probably not if the vitamins mentioned are as important as they are made to be, but I know you don't need a diet high, or even moderate, in meat to have optimal health. I've been paleo and vegan. I know the fallacies of both diets.

[1ibiz]

For vitamin b12 to be bio available to humans is from the fermentation from the liver of an another animal, that or passed off to hereditary through laying a egg. The other microorganisms can be very similar to vitamin b12, but is not the same!

[yaddayaddayadda02]

Plus nothing made out of tofu is as tasty as bacon.

[1ibiz]

This is definitely best answer!

[djvtech]

Bacon is tasty because it's lathered in salt and fat. Try eating raw pig meat.

[yaddayaddayadda02]

If I did that, it wouldn't be bacon. I've eaten bacon 'out of the package', though.

[cheesesteak7]

ppl are vegans because they think it's the healthiest diet? I thought most vegans chose veganism because they were hippies opposing animal cruelty or people who had legitimate digestive problems?

[1ibiz]

Some are, that's their choice though. I will not argue with them. However, I need flesh to function accordingly, nobody will convince me otherwise.

[1ibiz]

Oh as far as digestive problems, their are none, they just think its meat when the cause is really something else!

[candyaurora]

Yes meat is quite important for human health and it has been scientifically proven. But there should be a balance.

[martyfellow]

You can get all the nutrition you need in a vegan diet, especially these days with the supplements available..but maybe it's not necessary to go that far, unless you have allergies.

[djvtech]

Of course you can now, but I think he's referring to if veganism was possible before fortification and supplementation.

[palek]

Vegetarian is an old Indian word meaning "poor hunter"

[xzinax2]

the only reason you can't get some B vitamins from plants is because we clean our food too well,if we ate them straight from nature-we'd get them. you can also eat sh*t and get B12,doesn't mean I'll choose it over fortified food.

[1ibiz]

Vitamin b12 only comes from meat, their are no plant sources what so ever.

[xzinax2]

b12 is made anywhere where there is plenty of bacteria-like sh*t. and dirt. doesn't mean I'll eat them. just like I won't eat a bacteria infested gut of a murdered animal.

[1ibiz]

It comes from animals, if you are not getting it, you are not healthy, it is that simple!

[xzinax2]

no,it comes from bacteria. if you eat something that has a lot of bacteria-like guts,you get it. or,if you're sane,you get a pill. and anyway,you'll eventually get too old for your body to use the b12 that is found in murdered animals,so you'll have to take pills anyway

[1ibiz]

Its called Methylcobalamin, where do you think they derive this pill from, it has to come from some where right? FLesh is embedded with vitamin b12, so it doesn't just come fro the gut!

[xzinax2]

the pill doesn't use animals to get the b12,like I said,b12 can be made anywhere where there is bacteria. it has nothing to do with animals except the ''food'' you eat being a dead rotting bacteria infested corpse,so duuh,it has b12

[1ibiz]

No, it comes from bacteria from animals, what do you not understand that it comes from no vegetation sources!

[xzinax2]

saying something doesn't make it true.

[1ibiz]

Okay, well do your research then. If you do not want to accept the information then that's your priority!

[xzinax2]

i've done plenty of research,you're the one who doesn't understand how bacteria work. but,whatever,your brain can't accept facts because you need an excuse to continue doing something you just want to because you prefer taste over the lives of others.

[1ibiz]

It has nothing to do with taste, I choose to get what my body needs for optimal health. I also understand how bacteria works as well, and if you cannot get it through your head that some bacteria is formed only from the flesh of live animals. Such as vitamin b12. If you do not want to do the research, then that is your problem. However, your lack of knowledge in this particular feild does not make it reality!

[xzinax2]

''Only bacteria and archaea have the enzymes required for its synthesis, although many foods are a natural source of B12 because of bacterial symbiosis. The vitamin is the largest and most structurally complicated vitamin and can be produced industrially only through bacterial fermentation-synthesis.''

''herbivorous animals must either obtain B12 from bacteria in their rumens, or (if fermenting plant material in the hindgut) by reingestion of cecotrope feces.'' ''plants pulled from the ground''

[1ibiz]

Which comes from where? Oh that's right animal sources. Even cows that eat only grass still gets a plenty of vitamin b12 from insects that leave larvae on the fields of grass. No matter how they derive it from, they derive it from a living species!

[xzinax2]

vegans aren't vegan to avoid eating the sh*t of another animal,or to avoid contamination-it's about causing as little harm as possible. if you want to eat sh*t to get b12,go ahead,i'll stick to fortified food . bacteria can produce b12 without an animal in a lab.

[1ibiz]

Okay if that's what you think, however it comes from vitro meat which is meat that has been developed in a lab, and not yet available for distribution. Also, they still need to feed this flesh with nutrients, and they have to get the nutrients from some source right? Honestly, you will not win this debate with me, fisrt off because you are wrong if you like it or not, secondly, I study gene expression for a career. So you will not tell me that I am wrong when all I do is study nutrition and know

[1ibiz]

this to be factual!

[xzinax2]

oh lord,you're an idiot. you shouldn't speak on topics you know nothing of,maybe you'll run into someone willing to argue with you on this further,but I have no interest in arguing with liars who have no understanding of the topic they choose to condemn. bye. you can take this as a ''you win'',it'll certainly lead to you confidently arguing someone with more patience than me,that should be entertaining

[1ibiz]

Well if you think that you know what you are talking about then challenge me! You are only 18 years old, what the hell do you know. I'm not going to argue with a little girl that yet has gone into further education. You even fail to do a simple google search. Go ahead google "vitamin b12 comes only from animals."

[1ibiz]

Here I even went out my way to get you the proper information, enjoy! "Cyanocobalamin is converted to its active forms, first hydroxocobalamin and then methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin in the liver." Your welcome!