How is it unfair to ask for a decent ring when a woman is asked to give up her maiden name?

Question

If you don’t want to spend much or anything on an engagement ring; are you also fine with her and your kids not taking your last name?

Investigator · Accepted Answer

Is this a committed relationship or a business partnership? What you're asking for is "quid pro quo", i. e. "you give me a ring and I'll take your last name." Both arrangements are perfectly acceptable, but they're also very distinct.

How is that? Well, in a committed relationship, the terms of engagement are verbally agreed upon but subject to change and/or immediate termination, while business partnerships are expressly transactional, concisely agreed upon (usually in writing, to maintain a paper trail) and legally binding with harsh penalties for failure to comply, and necessarily beneficial--which does mean keeping score of who gets what. It sounds like you want the idea of the former but desire the function of the latter.

Also, "decent ring", you mean "3 months' salary?" Are you aware that this "tradition" is/was manufactured by the De Beers Group, in order to artificially increase the value of diamond rings (which are naturally abundant), who campaigned to make them some sort of "rite of passage" for marriage ceremonies. Yeah, it's not a time-honored tradition going back Millenia, it's marketing from the 1900s that people have since taken as gospel and now demand as demonstration of commitment, even though it is rather perfunctory act.

If you intend to marry, keeping a checklist of all the things other people got is the best way to signal the worst kind of intent. It's supposed to be a nice gesture from the partner among many to come, not an opportunity to figure out just how much you're getting screwed.

BullShark · Accepted Answer

I don't really see there being an apt comparison between a last name and a ring. That's like saying something like it's unfair that you have to eat the same boring home cooked food your mom makes when you also have to accept your boring dad's last name too. You get what I mean?

Personally, I'm the sort of person who doesn't really care if his wife keeps her maiden last name, as long as my kids keep mine. Call it a cultural thing. And as for rings, I don't know if you said this to shit on men or something, implying that men purposely buy a cheap ring to save up, which really isn't the case if that's what you think.

Out of all the married guys I've known personally, there hasn't been ONE man who bought his fiance a cheap ring on purpose, because as us men, we too want our future wives to be wearing good looking rings which make them stand out from the other girls and they can show it off to their friends (because they WILL and they SHOULD). So just bear in mind that if you see a guy getting his fiance a slightly smaller ring that isn't as big as her overinflated ego, chances are he's probably broke and he tried his best to get whatever he could afford for her.

Brainsbeforebeauty · Accepted Answer

What does one have to do with the other… you take your husbands last name and give your children his name as you are now a family unit… and by decent, do you mean expensive? A ring was only ever meant to be a symbol, not for the cost to be a determination of how much someone loves you…

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

The thing about engagement rings is that you want a good one but you've also got to consider that say a 20 thousand dollar engagement ring is the price of a car, deposit on a house and so on. You got to think of your future. No use having an expensive ring if the repo man takes it.

Summeroflove · Answer

If all you measure love in is a material object you have problems. Because you’re not entitled and men don’t like entitled women the same as women don’t like entitled men.

As far as last names go. This is a serious conversation that two people getting married need to talk about and find what’s best for them. She doesn’t have to give her last name up if she doesn’t want to. It’s just a tradition.

Some people also don’t have the budget to buy some fancy ring. All you want is material objects. This isn’t love. If you want something so bad you’re free to go out and buy it your own self.

Guy13 · Answer

RUN!!, who would get engaged to a disrespectful guy like this?

Clouding "taking his name" Marriage values with proper engagement ring purchase is counterproductive. Clearly this guy's priorities are skewed if he is willing to do this to his potential wife. How can a spouse expect such an individual to maintain wife, children, and /or household itself?

coachTanthony · Answer

You either believe in that one aspect of traditional marriage or you don't. You wanting a decent ring should have nothing to do with your name. You tell him hey I am going to be wearing this the rest of my life so I want it to be a good one.

jennifer_bloom · Answer

I do not know a single woman who changed her last name that did it because she felt pressure to do so. They wanted to change the last name cause it made them feel more united in marriage to the husband.

OlderAndWiser · Answer

Why are the cost of the ring and the last name matter tied together? Sounds like you are trying to bargain to get the best financial deal out of this, instead of just marrying for love.

DaveJord · Answer

I would say that she should expect whatever is within reason, and she can keep her name, but the kids will take mine.  Absolulety now hyphened or double last names for the kids.

Anonymous · Answer

How is it unfair to ask you to change your last name when you are asking him to enter into marriage with you knowing that there is a 40% chance you will divorce him and take his children?

Half of marriages end in divorce and women initiate 80% of divorces. A little basic math shows that 4 out of 10 men who get married today will be divorced by their wives (50% x 80% = 40%). And when women divorce their husbands, men get screwed in divorce court and child custody arrangements.

You women need to stop focusing on petty, selfish things like a ring and your last name and start trying to mend the damage you have caused to the institution of marriage. Men are already saying no to marriage at the highest rate in history, by far, and that trend shows no sign of reversing. Making an issue of your last name and a ring seems very petty in the context of the bigger picture, doesn't it?

If you women start keeping your last names, you're taking away one of the few remaining benefits of marriage to men, and that may be the final nail in the coffin for western marriage.

lightbulb27 · Answer

I got her what she wanted, within reason and thankfully, she is very reasonable!

picking an unreasonable mate is a yellow flag. you get to decide what is reasonable.

It does seem unfair women have to change their name, but that is deeply embedded in cultures. Maybe we should have merged names instead of disposing of one.

Jimmy Joe Doolittle marries Mary Snoodles.

The become Mr and Mrs Jimmy Joe Snoodles Doolittle

Eventually, they have to truncate names into acronyms.

RavVid · Answer

I think women are entirely happy to give up their maiden name and there is no trade for a ring as implied.

Whilst we might think it is universal for women to use Ms, it is entirely untrue. I know this because I have checked it in commercial cutomer databases. In fact only about 15% of women chose Ms as their salutation title, another 15% choose Miss, and 60% chose good old fashioned Mrs. A few Drs and other titles round out the rest plus there are always some variations to those number.

I was curious enough to ask around about this. It seems that the Mrs and name changed are taken as part of the Big Day and happily done as much of a part of it as much as the wedding gown and wedding breakfast.

In fact I think, if you didn't want your wife to take on your surname, you would fight a losing battle. A girlfriend made a strong unwanted push to take mine.

It depends on what you regard as a decent ring. It should be affordable not stupidly expensive needing a ten year bank loan.

It is unfair, unreasonable and over demanding if that is what you are asking for.

Tracker1958 · Answer

Okay your not going to like this. If she has any problems with any part of any of this, dump her. If she has problems with changing her last name, she only cares about the wedding and doesn't care at all about the man she claims to love. If she truly loves him, she would marry him with no question ask or requirement. She wound care about the ring, changing her last name or any thing else. My wife's ring cost 300 dollars when we was married. Our wedding cost 25 dollars. She didn't care at all. We been married for 45 years now. Guys, if she puts a bunch of requirements on you before she will marry you, dump her on the spot, it's the wedding she in love with and you have absolutely nothing to do with it. After we was married for several years, I got her a real nice ring. She was 17 and I was 18, I didn't have a great job, I was making 3.50 an hour. If she not willing to help you build a good life from the bottom, don't take her in after you put in all the hard work to get to the top. Requirements means she she just after the money, love is no where in this.

Genie23 · Answer

To be honest, you make it sound like you guys are making some kind of deal. You buy me an expensive ring and I'll give up my surname. That's not what you're supposed to do. See, you should be happy with whatever gifts and the kind of ring he got for you. He did the best he could. If you don't want to change your surname, you just let him know that. Maybe he'll understand. Marriage is about making many good memories, growing old together. Being there for each other through thick and thin. Appreciating each other. Doing things for your partner to make him/her happy and they should do the same. Don't think of it as a deal.

Screenwriter · Answer

The idea of selling off your name for a ring is rather abhorrent if you ask me. A couple can decide whose name or hyphenate or whatever with the kids. That's not even an issue. They aren't born yet. Talk about it after the wedding or before even...

The point is, no one should have to spend several thousand dollars to "collar" or "brand" a woman as theirs! What century are we living in? Maybe ask him to give the girl's family some horses or blankets? Cows? How about a dowry?

It's a tradition that can be done or dispensed with. The man deserves as much of a gift from the woman as the woman deserves from the man. Why not have each give the other something lovely like a ring, a bracelet that's engraved in gold or silver with precious or semi-precious stones. A pearl necklace for the lady. There are so many alternatives to a diamond ring that don't cost a fortune and are lovely engagement presents that both parties should give to each other.

Ghostykill3r · Answer

There is no real purpose in having a stupid expensive ring except to show it off. Getting one that you like, and one that is quality is a good idea, but people shouldn't be spending 10s of thousands of dollars on a bit of gold and a small rock. There's absolutely no correlation between the ring and the last name, except that they are typically associated with marriage. The last names being the same is helpful when it comes to registering kids for school, activities, doctors. Many people would see it as a red flag if a dad comes to pick up his kids and they have different last names. However that's just a conversation to have with your partner about what you both want and would like to do.

Haha456 · Answer

i would have to agree that there is no excuse to be cheap with a ring. i also think it must also be within the affordable bounds of the financial means of the man you're trying to marry. if you're marrying a broke asshole who can't afford a stay at home wife, i wouldn't expect a extroadinary ring.

HighValue · Answer

Completely different things. The price of a ring is just greed and materialism. If you don't have his last name, maybe he doesn't really see you as part of his family so if a violent intruder even breaks in the house, he only needs to protect himself and his kids, but not you since you aren't part of his family without his last name.

Greed and materialism is one of the MAIN ways you will lose a good quality man. Just FYI.

SteveSmith1985 · Answer

These two things are unrelated.

It's not a situation of trade-offs.

Keep your maiden name if that's something important to you. But it's got nothing whatever to do with the cost of a ring.

Something you might be overlooking: Marriage is not an economic marketplace exchange. It's a ceremony to affirm your love and commitment in a public and officially recognized way.

If the cost of the ring is an issue, you're getting married for the wrong reasons.

Anonymous · Answer

I don't like the idea of valuing love based on the ring, but I totally see your point.

They don't understand how women lose their self taking the name and becoming Mrs whatever, his wife, etc and never again called her first name. They lose their individuality.

Yes, you become a unit but the husband doesn't lose himself in that sense.

This ring is worn forever, no one wants one that's ugly.. over 2k is extreme but she is the one wearing it.. forever.

integrale77 · Answer

It's not about physical possessions it's about love sure he can work on the best he can get but the decision over who takes what name is a separate issue.

My girlfriend has already said she wants to keep her own but add mine mainly because she has a son already and wants to it to be recognised that she is his mother. I see the logic and I'm fine with it. I'm also fine with this because my surname begins with T and it puts me to the bottom of lists where as J gets me closer to the top👍

ShellyB · Answer

I think the reason the answers are not what you were expecting or wanting is that I do not think most people see these two things as being tied together, although I think it's OK if a couple does see it that way and decides to negotiate them that way. For most people it's two totally separate decisions that have nothing to do w each other. JMO!

Astarlessnightsky · Answer

If this is how you see marriages thats fine and good luck finding a partner who thinks alike, however there are plenty of other opinions and ways to handle things like that.

Eg my girlfriend will gladly give up her maiden name as it teminds her of her toxic father, or a friend of mine will be taking his wifes maiden name, or you can take on a double name or each partner can simply keep their maiden name...

As for the price for a ring there are also countless opinions, some will they the thought and symbol is what matters so any ring will do, even if its just a piece of tinfoil, others will demand a ring that will put a lot of debt on the couple...

How is it unfair to ask for a decent ring when a woman is asked to give up her maiden name?

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How is it unfair to ask for a decent ring when a woman is asked to give up her maiden name?

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