The friend zone does not exist. It's simply people who form their own reality and then complain.
Let's be friends:
Does a guy need to take up any offer of friendship? No.
No one is obligated to a friendship with their rejector. If they don't want you then move on and walk away unscathed. Choosing to be friends with someone after rejecting you implies you understand no romantic involvement will ever occur between the two of you.
A woman doesn't friend zone a man. A man friend zones himself. If you want to be with someone go for it, if they don't want you back don't choose to be friends with them after. All a woman can do is offer it, it's up to you to accept or deny that request.
We're already such good friends:
You cannot expect anyone to reciprocate the same feelings toward you simply because you've invested time into them.
Why bother putting the effort into cultivating a friendship just to completely change the dynamic of your relationship? That is a hard switch not many people have the desire to make. The only way something like that works is if the woman has had previous feelings for you in the past, or currently feels the same way.
Turning around and dating your friend is not a glamorous proposal. Friends are entirely different from boyfriends. If you are a friend then I must reiterate that implies there isn't a possibility of romantic involvement.
Self proclaimed "Nice Guys"
I haven't seen many self proclaimed nice guys in person, but I have been friends with a few. Each one of them were awkward as hell and really weren't that nice. They had terrible social skills and from what I've seen alot of self proclaimed "nice guys" have this skewed vision on what a nice person is.
* Being sensitive does not mean you're nice
* Being romantic does not mean you're nice
* Telling people how nice you are, does not mean you're nice
* Having low self esteem does not mean you're nice
*Being a push over does not mean you're nice
The guys I met who have coined the title of niceness for themselves have nothing to offer. They were just like everyone else yet for some odd reason felt they were some unique little snow flake. They were obnoxious, a push over, a coward, or a pervert. They had nothing to offer other than romanticism and their low self esteem. They thought a relationship was going to solve all their problems and make them happy when that's not how relationships work. A few were on drugs, a few were crazy, and a few would verbally abuse themselves over the most trivial of things.
Relationships are for stable people, not unstable ones. A girlfriend isn't going to fix your problems. Happiness is a choice, and just because you practice the basics in human kindness doesn't mean you're as extravagant as you think you are.
Don't expect someone to be attracted to you because you're a good listener, called her pretty and held the door open for her. Take time to develop your character and go after women who show the same interest in you. Don't chase after the girl who doesn't want you and get bitter about it.
Reality
Nice guys do finish first. The ones that are actually nice because the reality is nice people don't think they're nice.
Genuinely nice people aren't aware of their niceness because they don't have to try. Nice people are that way because they think that's how people should be. They don't think they're doing anything special by doing the right thing, they do the right thing because it needs to be done.
Anyone who constistently tells you they're a nice person is lying to both you and themself. If you have to constantly put effort into being nice, then you aren't.
That's not what was said at all. The point is the friend zone doesn't exist just rejection. Men and women friend zone themselves. Also, I was talking about people who plaster their "niceness" all over their entire existence but have no idea what an actually nice person consists of. Of course women like nice men, just like men like nice women. People just like nice people but genuinely nice people.
how ignorant can a person be? smh no wonder you're so bitterly alone. she literally listed all the things that people claim to make them nice (like being sensitive, and weak emotionally) but then those people are still rude and nowhere near genuinely nice, and that the guys who are actually genuinely nice (those who don't feel the need to brag about it just because they have nothing better going on then their "niceness", those who treat a girl well without expecting something and sulking when they don't get anything right away, those with manners) always finish first.
I have lots of problems with the "Friend Zone" because I don't think it exists. I see it from two sides, one side a girl/guy likes me but I don't feel the same way. (1) I don't feel it now - Lets be friends and see what happens later ( A thousand times no, gives the other person false hope and if you don't feel it at start you are 99.9% sure to never feel it) (2) I don't feel it but we can be friends so you don't have to feel bad about being turned down (Only works if other person understands their is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE you will ever date) Other person (1) It hasn't happened now but if I hang in there and show her/him how cool I am they will fall for me ( It only happens 0.0000001 % of the time and in Hollywood) Final thoughts on Friendzone :- Only stay there if all romantic feelings can be put aside otherwise it leads to more hurt for one of the pair usually the person with crush. If you are crushee and don't feel it, make sure the person understands there is NO HOPE, nothing is worse than false hope. The rest of the take on "NIce Guys" makes a lot of sense to me. I totally agree with you.
I think my problem with having girls that are friends, isn't the fact that they put me in the friend-zone, or that because im "Nice" they automatically are just friends with me. Its the fact that the girl automatically thinks that because Im nice to them, I already have a girlfriend. Its like WTF!! It is not rude to ask someone if they are single or not. I ask women that I like, if they are single because I want to make sure I do not read the signals they are giving me too forward. I mean I get looks, and advances from women all the time. But they can also be just thinking of you as guy that you can flirt with, without actually going all the way. Maybe because they are married, or have a boyfriend already. (On a different note, I think it it hipocritical for a woman to think its ok to flirt with men, and be "friends" and expect their significant other to chastised about who they are. But I digress.) Its kind of like a fauz brother/sister relationship, where you joke around, and play around, but nothing gets too serious in the sense of the relationship, but you know where you stand. I jst hate it when they think, that Im taken, and they are not willing to break away from social ties, and ask the man if he is single, and pursue the guy when they want them. I mean a man has the right to tell you the truth, and be your friend only if he is hitched. Its like they think the guy will cheat on his lover, when another woman asks him about his intimate situation. Of course if a guy does do tat then he wouldn't be a nice guy would he?
Agree to disagree. 1) Women AND Men can friend zone the opposite sex. 2) Many friends can become lovers. Most couples actually start out as friends. 3) How the hell can anyone friend zone themselves? Simple fact: Any person in friend zone is just a result that there wasn't enough mutual attraction. Case may even be they like you, but they just don't like you enough. But genuinely this is so Meh. 4) You mean go FOR women you like, not AFTER them. 5) Nice guys finish first? Not necessarily. The guys who finish first or this who are willing to take the initiative and do whatever they undertake in the most effective manner. And yes, these guys can be 'dicks'. 6) Nobody is genuinely 'Nice'. Some people are just nicer than others. Shades of Grey. I hate it how everybody describes guys in black or white.
1. I understand that. If it seems like common sense to you then it probably is to everyone else. Just because people can be that base and not understand it applies to everybody doesn't mean a disclaimer must be written on every single thing that ever exists. My point is, the friend zone doesn't exist 2. yes of course, only if they have mutual feelings or previous feelings that were romantic. In most cases this does not happen. 3. Rejection is not the same as being friend zone. YOU choose to take them up on the friendship offer. Rejection and continuing a friendship with someone who doesn't want you aren't the same thing. 4. What is the difference? 5. Yes they do. Genuinely nice people. Not the people who have to try to be nice. 6. Of course they are, they have bad qualities about them as well which is why they dont promote themselves as nice
Listen lady, try to make as Grey as possible. If you can't, you're not doing it right. 1. Friend zone doesn't exist? Lol. You lost me right there. 2. Many cases it doesn't work out? I'll ask this question just for you. 3. Where the hell did rejection come from? If you're gonna speak about rejection. Do a gender neutral take. Not just on Nice guys. 4. You don't go AFTER people who like you. They meet you midway. And THAT is a reciprocal relationship. 5. Being nice always won't take you anywhere. Doing the right thing might not always be the nicest thing to do. Read Moral Ambiguity. 6. Stop taking people by surface value. I don't expect anyone to do for me what they won't do for themselves. And being nice is one of those things.
If you choose to miss the point then it's entirely on you. There's nothing I can do to help you with that. Write your own take if you feel so inclined but I know what I'm talking about. Have a good day man. I'm not up for arguing.
The thing is I don't care about you disagreeing. An argument still exist when you say "agree to disagree." A disagreement is still an argument, all that saying means is no one should be taking anything personally.
Are you just not understanding or choosing to be difficult? Maybe you should reread what I wrote because all I did was explain a saying to you that you clearly do not understand. We're still arguing. "Agree to disagree" means not to take anything personal and become emotionally invested in the disagreement, but the disagreement is still an argument. There is NO difference between the two.
This is still an argument. That doesn't stop this from not being an argument. That's like saying. "no homo" after saying something gay. You still said something gay it just means you don't need to take it further. even this right here is the two of us arguing.
I think you're right. Most people do start off as friends or are at least introduced by a friend. How many times have I had people on here tell me, you're not very likely to get a date with a girl by just walking up to her randomly, even if you are nice about it and introduce yourself. etc.
"Anyone who constistently tells you they're a nice person is lying to both you and themself."
I never understood this saying. I mean, personally I don't go around blaring a horn saying "I'm a nice guy," but I wouldn't write someone off just because they said the words "Yeah, I'm a nice person."
Like, if a doctor says "Yeah, I'm pretty good at what I do," that's a perfectly valid, and very possible statement. He could actually BE that good at what he does. If a person tries to be a nice person, if they try to live by their standards, than there's very much a possibility that they are ACTUALLY the nice person that they tell you they could be.
Not all nice people lack self-awareness. Some people very much try to live by their code of ethics and are very aware of it. At least from what I've encountered in my life.
You're right, but you don't know if that person is lying or not. It's up to YOU to figure out if they are not who they appear to be, and if the cup you are measuring that person with is simply "If they say they are something, than they are most likely not that thing." is a poor cup to measure someone by is what I'm saying.
Obviously it is more to it than that I'm not stupid. Would you like a real life example of the type of guy I mean? I had a friend in high school who had terrible luck with the ladies. Every single day he would tell me and everyone he possibly could that he was the nicest guy you could ever meet. Was he really? No. He was honestly socially awkward and an ass. He made fun of girls he considered ugly, laughed at other people's misfortunes, was a pot head and a drunk, thought he was the greatest singer and dancer of all time, and talked about people like they were pieces of meat. That is who I'm discussing.
Sorry dude, it's the 21st century. The only time you can even show a hint of pride and confidence in yourself is if you're a black transgender lesbian liberal atheist. Otherwise, it's not P. C.
I think I am a decent guy, I am faithful to my woman and I try to please her because it pleases me to see her happy.
I don't think I could ever be an asshole to my girl, because it just causes too much drama. If the girl prefers a guy that likes to stir shit, then she is definitely not for me.
If she wants a man that is cool-headed, will treat her with respect, is honest, listens to her when she speaks, and treats her as an equal, then that is who I am.
If that fits in the "nice guy" realm then so be it.
Decent clean-living hard-working honourable men are of zero interest to the vast majority of females until the women pass the age of 30 (roughly). They want players and sundry variations of the sociopathic bad boy, because Iva Necktattoo and Harley MacBadBoy are more 'fun' and 'exciting'. Females need drama and heartbreak to keep the hamster wheel spinning. Men, go your own way. Really and truly, women are not worth the effort and enormous legal liability. A relationship with a woman carries with it a 50 per cent probability (the current divorce rate) that you will be destroyed financially by a divorce court and transformed into her impoverished slave for life via a child-support order. MGTOW
You people have the meaning of "friendzone" wrong. It will always be possible to be friendzoned.
All it means is that the guy asked out the girl/asked to be with her, but the girl said, "no thanks, let's be friends". That is the friendzone. Are you telling me that doesn't happen, ever?
And okay, sure, you might switch the words "girl" and "guy" but like that ever happens.
All that is, is rejection. Too many people complain about the friend zone but if someone is not attracted to you then they're just not attracted to you. I've faced rejection plenty of times. I understand it is unpleasant but just because someone doesn't want me doesn't mean I need to get salty about it. I've had guys say they only saw me as a "friend" etc. but did I pursue any friend ship with them? No I didn't because I didn't have to. A friendship requires some form of closeness and bond. Why would I torture myself if all I had was a crush? I'd move on and get over them. Not go into self pitying mode and suffer while they find a bunch of different girls to be with.
No it isn't it's being friends. Friendships should be platonic. If someone wants to be friends knowing they're incapable of losing romantic interest in that person and later complains about it then they're a fake ass friend and a bastard.
I believe everything you say is true, but i don't think it's explained in a way that guys who are trapped in 'nice guy mode' will understand.
There's a reason so many guys with bad social skills end up like this - because we actually RAISE them this way. And the reason they think they're special snowflakes is because they are constantly told that most men are pigs/assholes who just want sex and are on the verge of raping every woman around them. So they think that being nice, gentle and never pushy (to the point of being pushovers) does make them special.
They are also confused because they've been told men and women are the same, and they'd be delighted with a girl who was sweet and mild.
No its not like that, you are justifying it One woman said : girls enjoy your life with bad boys all you can , but when you get married , marry a nice guy who would change half of diaper Women you just see us as a object not person You just give your best to who degrade you, and can't respect who respect you I didn't play that I stayed as nice till I found that girl who didn't take advantage of this, so I'm just not someone who is mad I couldn't have a woman It's just doesn't feel nice when I'm the guy number 30 and she's my 3rd or 4th, sex to her is a usual non emotional thing, but to me it still has a glow, And girl who exposed to high number of dicks most likely to divorce
I don't think anybody who is nice actually calls themselves a nice guy. It's just something we notice when we are being nice that nothing happens for us. It's like girls want to be teased or jokingly demeaned. Or if we don't show the attitude they like, they just want to get rid of us without really making an effort themselves.
I'm talking about people who need to plaster their niceness all over the place and use that as a scapegoat for their problems. Genuinely nice people are wonderful. I don't know who wouldn't like a nice person. Most of the time it isn't that they're nice why someone might not want to pursue them, it could be a ton of things. Including they're not even that nice to begin with.
I'm confused. EVERYTHING that you just described was the definition of a gentlemen. So, you're telling me that gentlemen are NOT nice guys? If so, wtf is a nice guy? Wtf is a genuine article nice guy?
Also, while I agree with most of the commentary about "Friend Zone", I do not see how one cannot be friends with someone, and THEN get into a relationship! Hell, which was it? I think it was Kay's Jewelry that just recently released a special ring for people who married their best friend. That's millions of dollars that are proving you WRONG! So, whatever you say on that account.
so basically you´re saying everybody, who thinks he´s nice is in fact an asshole?
have you ever been madly in love with a guy that only sees you as a friend? i bett if you were, you would understand that it´s not that easy to just cut a person you really like out of your life like that.
I agree with this arcticle. But it sure goes against all the girls claiming they approche dating with 'friendship first'.
Also the zone DOES exist. Take a guy that is told 'firendship 1st' by a girl (they do exist) and decide she is worth the wait. Then a month later she talks to him about her new guy. He was friend-zoned. Yes some guys willingly stay in that zone, but others are fooled into it.
well there is a huge difference between "lets be friends first" and friendzoning a guy. for example when i meet a guy who is really attractive in my opinion and we get along really nicely, i want to be with him but i would rather get to know him a little better first. like spend more time with him, find out what his interests are, see what he's all about. thats what being friends first means. just not rushing it. but if i meet a guy who is extremely unattractive to me, and NO connection whatsoever, im like yeah lets just be friends. forever.
@KRIEL55 How's the guy going to know whether he's the former or the latter? You'll tell him straight up? What about the majority of time she's on the fence? He's ok but she thinks she can do better so she string him along as plan B in case Mr Better doesn't show up or pan out to make sure she not completley alone and optionless.
yeah i tell them straight up. not in a rude way, just if im not attracted i'll say that i only see him as a friend, and if i do want to see where things go but want to be friends first, then thats what i say. that i kind of like him but want to be friends first. there's no confusion. and if what you said is happening to you, then just stop talking to that girl.
@KRIEL55 honestly, from my point of view that's just being strung along. "I'll hang out with you, but we're not going on any actual dates. Meanwhile, while I keep you in reserve, I'll be going on dates with other guys while I decide if you get a first date or not."
@Sixgun77 how is it stringing along when you say you like someone, and they are the only person you hang out with because you clearly just said you like them but want to get to know them more, so you spend a lot of time with them and basically do go on dates. and its not like it takes a year to decide, just like a month or two.
What self respecting man would ever describe himself as a nice guy? That's basically saying "I'm a boring and undatable doormat."
What you people are talking about is just a shithead, not an actual nice guy. Actual nice guys don't go around talking about how nice they are, they just keep doing shit for people and getting walked all over.
Nice guys finish last. Most every guy can tell you about seeing where girls pushed , schoved, waded in between nice guys to get their hooks into a worthless, no good bum, maybe a drug user, convict, biker, abuser, etc. Those types are what women want AT LEAST till their in their early 30s
These takes should focus on educating guys on what traits are attractive to girls that actually deem them nice, not complaining about self proclaimed nice guys that are seen as losers looking for sex with no self respect and assertiveness.
Well then I think you missed the point. I don't think real nice guys fail at anything. People writing these takes is precisely why I wrote mine, I think they're all wrong so I offered a new perspective. If you don't like reading about them why do you choose to? I didn't lure you in with a misleading title. You knew what this would be about.
It's extremely weird. I currently have a friend that is like that. He honestly got rejected in the nicest way possible, that was hardly even a rejection: "let's start off as friends first and take it from there" because he just flat out asked a girl he barely knows to be his girlfriend instead of asking her out on a date. The guy would tell me how useless he is, how ugly he is, just tear himself apart. He even tried to quit the place we work at and he didn't even get rejected!
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