Why I dated 'bad guys'

[Hannah591]

Disclaimer: By bad guy, I mean any guy that isn't an entitled, nice guy/incel and may or may not have bad behavioural tendencies.

We've all heard it;

"I'm such a nice guy, I don't know why women only date bad guys!"

You just have to browse the sub-reddit, /r/niceguys, to realise how nice the self declared 'nice guys' are. But for the guys out there who really don't understand why girls date "bad" guys, I thought I'd share my own experiences of why.

They weren't bad to begin with

When you see your crush break up with a 'bad guy' and you find out he treated her badly, it's highly unlikely she started a relationship with him, whilst he was treating her badly. Poor treatment often comes gradually but in the beginning they're very charming. If a guy is abusing a girl and she's still with him, it's not because she's stupid or that women enjoy being treated badly, it's because they're trapped in a cycle of abuse that's hard to break.

They're confident

They don't sit from afar crushing on a girl, they go for her. They don't sit there feeling sorry for themselves, acting like some kind of victim. I like confidence in a guy, but there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance and if you date the latter, things don't always work out. I am not saying that shy guys don't get girls, but personally, I find it difficult to converse with a shy guy.

If a guy is abusing a girl and she's still with him, it's not because she's stupid or that women enjoy being treated badly...

You view them as 'bad guys'

because it's not you with the girl. If you're bitter, you're going to find flaws in the guy she's dating or view yourself as the better choice. I've dated guys who could be viewed as a 'bad guy' to others due to their reputation, but they have treated me perfectly well behind closed doors, so just because you think they're a bad guy, doesn't mean they're bad or are treating the girl badly.

They're not sickly sweet or too nice

This may sound absolutely ridiculous, but I have dated guys who put me on a pedestal and totally forget about themselves and their own lives. They become a 'lost puppy' that will say yes to absolutely everything you say and never stand up for their own beliefs. Soon you start feeling like you're looking after your boyfriend like he's your kid or he's more like a servant (which makes a guy vulnerable to be taken advantage of). Instead of the relationship being 50/50 where you both come to a decision, it's an imbalanced relationship where the guy is just agreeing with everything you choose and it becomes irritating. You want to converse through things, see things from their point of view, learn about them so how can you do that when he moulds into a clone of you? The relationship gets boring fast. When they say 'treat them mean, keep them keen', it doesn't mean actually being nasty, it means being able to live your own life, having time away and standing up for your own beliefs. No-one wants to date a sheep!

just because you think they're a bad guy, doesn't mean they're bad or are treating the girl badly.

They're not entitled or blame others

The extreme version of 'nice guys' (incel) seem to have an entitled attitude, that they're entitled to a woman for the slightest thing they do and act like they're such a great guy. 'Bad guys' are secure in themselves and don't blame other men for why they couldn't get a woman. They shrug it off, accept there's no spark and move on. They might think they're a catch, but they wouldn't get angry if a girl turns them down.

If you're finding yourself telling yourself that you're such a nice guy and girls aren't dating you because you're such a nice guy, maybe there's a lot more involved rather than just you being 'so nice' that's causing girls to not be interested. You can't change others, you can only change yourself so don't fall into the trap of blaming the world for your problems, make changes in your own life if you want to see change.

[capncool]

I've been the "nice guy" who was jealous of the "bad boy" who got the girl, then later on down the road there was a "nice guy" who was clearly jealous and because I was the "bad boy" who was dating the girl. As someone whose been on both sides of the coin I can say that the "nice guy" is definitely not really nice at all, and I don't consider myself a "bad boy", just a confident guy.

Sure he'd be nice to my face, but when I was with my ex I noticed him staring at me and giving me bad looks when he thought I wasn't looking. I saw him watching me when I talked to female friends. I knew exactly what he was thinking, he was waiting for his chance to get me out of the way and be the one who "rescued" my ex from me.

[MisterAnon69]

Preach it bro. I had to beat up a scrawny asshole last week who thought I couldn't hear him mumbling all this shit talk about me. He was talking nonsense really just riling himself on how much he deserves my girlfriend and how I'm terrible blah blah blah. Any way He though he would lie to my face and say he didn't know me when I confronted him about it, so I gave him a bloody nose and a few choice words. XD Nice guys are fucking pathetic when they get into that jealousy stage.

[Hannah591]

You've perfectly encapsulated what I was trying to get across in mytake, thank-you for sharing and being honest. :)

[Robertcw]

@MisterAnon69 I wish I would have been there. The moment you punched him I would have joined in, except I wouldn’t be on your side.

[MisterAnon69]

@Robertcw I mean it wouldn't have helped him very much. At least now he understands that women are more than trophies.

[Robertcw]

@MisterAnon69 Whatever you say.

[KilsonX]

@MisterAnon69 you're a piece of shit and I should give you a bloody nose you fucktard

[KilsonX]

@Robertcw This!

[VaIiant]

@Robertcw Soo you're defending the piece of shit who thinks women are trophies/property, have no say in who they date, and that he "deserves" her?

[Robertcw]

@VaIiant Yes, because he is likely not a piece of shit and that asshole who denies gender preference punched him in the face.

You see, women have got to understand that choosing bullies like that man is not helping their cause. More than likely, the guy that got punched is not really a bad person at all. He’s got a mother like everyone else and probably was raised in an ordinary suburb by calm and otherwise successful people surrounded by laid back ordinary people.

When he’s thrown into the hostile environment of high school those doughy parents that raise cocky douche kids go around screwing each other and beating up kids like this guy. It’s fucked up and I will absolutely stand up for him.

[Robertcw]

Douchy* not ‘doughy’ phone autocorrect typo.

[Robertcw]

@VaIiant Ever wonder why that kid was mumbling shit talk about that guy? I have seen enough to know for myself, he deserves it!

What confuses me is that women see nothing wrong with his behavior when it’s clearly fucked.

[VaIiant]

@Robertcw Ah. You're a fellow "nice guy".

[VaIiant]

Also, I don't give a flying fuck if high school was rough on the kid. You DON'T FUCKING KNOW HIM. Thats NO reason to support the feeling of entitlement to a woman. Shut the actual hell up.

[Robertcw]

@VaIiant No way. Regardless of what he says, no one deserves to be punched or the victim of violence for that reason. Regardless, that other guy is a clear douche and if you can't see that there's something wrong with you.

[Pinky_what_why]

Ummmm Y'all tripping

[monkeynutts]

Yeah I would think what your saying is common sense. The best relationships just fall into place, everything you do is right, and there is not a care in the world, you could not be more complete than when you are spending time together. As for nice guys finish last and blah blah, incel garbage, I don't know what to say, be a man and fucking grow a pair.

[ObscuredBeyond]

I don't get jealous if he got to her first. But if I see red flags she doesn't, I worry for her safety. I don't define "bad boys" as the non-entitled. I define them as the suave predators that know how gullible a woman is at first sight, and don't wait to take advantage of her and set a trap. I have a natural protective "big brother" instinct that sees her as "sister in danger," and wants to intervene to make sure the danger isn't really there - or can be prevented from getting worse.

I don't resent girls because they won't date me. But if they personally damage my way of life by starting BS drama behind my back for me, because they were too chicken sh*t to tell me whatever to my face, that I resent. Why? Because it's one thing to tell her off.

It's simple: "I don't see you as someone I want to date."

And I say: "Fine."

Saying: "Sure, maybe" to something that isn't even a date offer, and then going behind my back and telling some third party I'm the Big Bad Wolf, so that I'm confronted by a misguided crusader out for blood over a "threat" that never happened? Yeah, that's how you get on my shit list.

It's one thing to be romantically turned down. It's quite another when I have to repair 400 other relationships that she sabotaged with her speculation and lies, defending myself in the court of public opinion over the same horsecrap over and over, just to be able to go anywhere or function anywhere! When I can't get a job I want, because of her ignorant blabbery and reckless shooting off her mouth!

And if she did it with intent to harm, I can't afford a lawyer to sue. Even if I could, I'd look like the "bad guy" for it!

THAT, is a woman I would be bitter over. One that caused ACTUAL DAMAGE, and then walked away like it's no biggie, because she knows no one will ever allow her to face any real consequences for it! And the more I rage over the injustice, the worse I look!

If you like guys that aren't whiny and entitled, good for you. All I want, is someone I can confide in. Someone I know isn't going to backstab me and make it impossible for me to work with others over prejudices and horsecrap that she starts for some BS reason. Where she takes her mental problem, and makes it my life problem. I'm so done with flakes like that!

How much I'd like to sit a lot of them down, and point out all the flaws in their thinking, and ask them one question: "What do you have to say for yourself?"

But I know they're too chicken to answer for the harm they've caused, so that would never happen. I just feel sorry for the next sucker who falls into their spider traps. Because those gals will never change.

It's all fun and games, until I get hurt and blow the whistle. Then, I'm the "bad cop," and they go from 30 acting 20 to acting 3. Predictable, and sad.

It's simple: earn my trust, you have a loyal friend, possibly for life. Betray that trust, and force me to have to defend my honor against some busybody third party, and your name is mud.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

"They weren't bad to begin with"

Ok, then your entire mytake is a lie. You never dated bad guys. What is the point of this article then? May as well write an take titled "Why I drove a Chevy, not a ford" and then in the second paragraph have a title that says "It wasn't actually a Chevy."

The whole "nice guy" paradox is literally a badly name literally existing for no reason other then a way to excuse people from dating decent people.

If there is no such thing as "nice girl" then why is there for guys? It's an excuse, not legit.

" I've dated guys who could be viewed as a 'bad guy' to others due to their reputation, but they have treated me perfectly well behind closed doors, so just because you think they're a bad guy, doesn't mean they're bad or are treating the girl badly."

You aren't special. There's no point to this article. Who you dated is just AVERAGE. Many guys don't fake being nice or are flat out assholes, both of which are extremes. Many guys, believe it or not, are in between. Decent enough to date, but not pushovers. It's like the whole "millinial" "Baby boomer" etc. buzzword crap. They don't exist. It's just PEOPLE. Born over a long period of time with a billion different personalities and grouped together to make billions off of books, articles, news, etc. using those words. It's literally hype over nothing. You dated OK guys. Cool. Want a cookie? I dated OK girls. They weren't "nice" but weren't assholes. Just the middle with varying like any other human. Don't see me writing a take about it do you?

[UmarSpiegal]

Spot on, she isn't the brightest tool in the shed.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@UmarSpiegal Good to say some support on this. WAY too many would downvote me and start saying how I myself MUST be a "nice guy" for pointing this out and then get all stupid and condescending. Wrote a take expressing exactly what I said, BARELY was read and the people that did likely didn't have the patience or intelligence to read past the title. Which at least, was an HONEST one. But I guess being honest make me "nice"? BUT "nice guys" aren't honest though... OH NO... something doesn't add up...

[UmarSpiegal]

Yep pretty much, i mean, to be honest i think people are taking this stuff far too in depth (especially in the wrong way). I'm only 18 so i don't have much experience with life, but i understand that the rule of thumb should just be to live for the betterment of your happiness as well as the joy of others. This chick literally posted a defense for dudes that beat their girls... I mean come on, how can anybody with a brain write what she wrote and have thought "Gee sounds like a plan". Just wrong in various forms.

[Pineapple_float]

For someone to be considered a bad boy or girl, they would have to be considered someone that is the opposite to you and your normal characteristics. They do things that you wouldn’t do with no cares of the risk and consequences that could occur by doing them. So lets create an example, lets say you dont like to drink because you believe it causes the mind to think less and your scared of drinking and driving and getting caught by cops or hurting yourself or others on the road... but the bad boy or girl your interested in is not, they’re confident and willing to take the risk to do it anyways knowing those consequences and risk and simply not caring about them and once you take the risk with them you see you find you enjoy them with them and it wasn't as bad as u were thinking (they bring out the inner being in you and show u what its like to live and have fun) and make you realize you were analyzing maybe too much or being too much of a scardey cat or goody too shoes to begin with. The point is to be attracted to a bad boy or girl is to be attracted to someone who will take the risk that you’ve always been scared to do or wondered about doing but haven’t because you were scared or expected not to do by the means set up by society norms and expectations, or ones set up by family or even for that matter by yourself. I seen a lot of people dont agree with the the askers post but, the definition and meaning of a bad boy’s definition changes from person to person. To be a bad boy everything is taken into consideration... personality, the way he looks, dresses, carries himself, acts, the things he does and says and facial expressions.. there's serval things that contribute to it and as i said change from people to people. Her opinion is just simply her opinion... there's no wrong nor rights, i suppose 🙂

[Hannah591]

Exactly, it's very subjective. Thanks for your thoughts. :)

[xxcandyxxcanes]

What I just read is that you dated and stayed with bad guys because they had "good" demeanors. You didn't perceive them as being capable of hurting you due to their nice and good fronts, but they ended up shitty in the end?

This whole GOOD GUY vs BAD GUY coin terms thing is giving me a headache. Most people want to give off a good impression, whether they are good on the inside or not. It is normal, as annoying as that is to say. I think a major problem is that people blame themselves for "not" having realized that someone is an ass, rather than trying to figure out how they can get out of the relationship and move on. I think both men AND women choose to stay attached to the fantasy of a not-so-great person when they are not mentally healthy enough to be realistic, or frankly they don't think they deserve better.

If you are not okay on the inside, then you truly are vulnerable to being treated any ole' way by someone with their hands around your fragile heart. We need to stop seeing people as GOOD and BAD guys and start seeing them as people who are *good* for us or *bad* for us and our well-being.

[Hwlsop]

I always said if you want to find out about how somebody really is before you date them then ask people of the same gender that know them (but not their friends). People put on a good act for the opposite gender but show who they really are to the same gender.

[xxcandyxxcanes]

That’s a pretty good stance. Someone’s reputation says a lot about them, especially it being asked by someone not expected to use it in considering them. Hah, now I wonder my own reputation :) good point.

[TarrAva]

That would be the type of human being that I would want to avoid at all costs.

If he was labeled "bad guy", then it is for a reason. Because one or several people have interacted with this person and defined him as being bad.

the definition of bad is "of poor quality or a low standard"

I am attracted to people of high quality and standards, meaning that I want to be able to be on a level, both intellectually and physically with persons that are able to challenge me. And that is not what I define as bad.

If I see the picture taken as example of a bad boy, then to me, this is a creepy looking person par excellence that I would rather not meet in a populated street during daytime, even less at dusk in the same street and not at all in the same street at night.

Both extremes are bad, incel and bad boy. I would rather have no relations with either one. I need a person that knows what he wants but does not impose his views on others or is afraid to voice his opinion.

Both type of persons are those that eventually will find themselves excluded from many relations because both of them are unreliable characters.

Mr. Nice Guy puts his girl on a pedestal while Mr. Bad Boy steps on her.

[slinky_the_dog]

My problem with these kinds of Takes is that they're kind of like blaming poor people for being poor. "Oh, but you made bad decisions" says the rich person, not acknowledging that life isn't a one-way street. It's a constant interplay between the individual and its environment.

E. g. with girls I feel bad for the shy, bookish girl boys don't really notice. I don't blame her for not being the bitchy "mean girl" all the guys are chasing, and I don't think the bitchy "mean girl" has necessarily earned the attention from guys. Life is just unfair. But I honestly worry less with girls because my experience tells me that things tend to work out in the end for girls. Guys are less picky. I've seen so many women date up. I hardly ever see the reverse.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think a whole lot of bitter incels are born. They are made. Partly by nature, which can be cruel and ruthless. And partly by a society that has adopted unscientific feminism as the absolute truth, a society that has no problem feeling sorry for women, but never feels sorry for men.

[levantine99]

true low profile girls can be "invisible" some times.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

I specifically go for the more shy gals honestly, if any at all. Same with a lot of people I talk to really. Nothing like seeing somebody who looks a bit outcast liked yourself, going up to em, and making yourselves your own group. People often get so picky about who they talk to when and in front of who. Then they are "oh so shocked" when they get screwed over. If ya want to be pretentious and only like pretentious people, does it not make sense, that screwing over will happen? DUH! Outcasts and more shy people on the other hand often aren't aiming for any goals with a friendship, it's just there to be there, for the sake of it, as it should be.

[cavmanier]

I didn't have to read this. I think I know what it's going to say. I find it bizarre so many people are so into stereotypes. You basically twist what many guys try to explain into this stereotype. It does not comprehensively represent what many guys try to explain. There is actually a thing where girls may be drawn to dick heads. And no I'm not an incel which is the typical defense mechanism people love to use. What a derogatory socially acceptable insult to use in this politically correct, identity politics, me too, hyper sensitive times. It's okay to insult men than have difficulty with women for some reason. Bizarre.

Basically your argument is:
"I disagree with your stereotype of these guys and I believe in my stereotype of your opinion instead. Nothing you can say can describe something I'll listen to because I follow my stereotype only. Incel (A jab that means I'm better than you)."

Try actually listening to some of these guys arguments without your prior opinions. New argument evaluation is a skill.

[thothahuramazda]

Women don't have to do anything for men if they have 10 dudes waiting to hump her and give her cash and willing to fight other horny dudes. Women see this as power over men. Men are evil because all they want to do is hump me and when I'm old and ugly men are evil because they don't want to hump me. Imagine if you had 10 horny girls giving you wads of cash wanting to hump you right now and they are all fist fighting to get in your pants. Would you care about the women you didn't want to screw no you wouldn't because no human being is valuable unless they serve a purpose and that purpose is expendable. Women are baby makers and men are producers of goods. Women are only valuable if they are fertile to produce babies and men are only good if the can provide resources and security. Women have all this cash and dick just waiting for them why should they care what happens to any man even if he gets eaten alive by bears. Oh, he died oh well I have 9 more dudes to replace him yay me! Then when women turn 35 and old suddenly men are evil because all the men don't want to hump me only a couple do and I need someone to pay for my single motherhood lifestyle and medical care costs for my fast approaching geriatric aging and oh don't forget she has a loose vagina sagging breasts obese doesn't clean herself or her house doesn't raise her kids she lets daycare do that and she has std's. Still want to hit that sweet sweet dried up roast beef sandwich pussy? Think about all the semen she has had from all the diseased dudes at the bar thousands of times oh how I love to know how much dick she has had before me its so sexy. Good luck with that. Invest in female robots and lets replace women. Because robots are better than used up hoes.

[LegendarySir]

I think this "girls only date bad guys" mentality, stems from the High School life.
There's no denying that in HS most of us were very superficial. We mostly just cared about looks and reputation, and usually, it was the "bad guys" and "bad girls" that were the most good looking and got all the girls/guys. So these people that complain about the "bad boys" tend to have little social skills, they don't go out, they don't interact with others, so they still maintain this view of when they did interact with others, which was in school. Since they don't do much now that they're adults, they still think people keep choosing partners the same way they did in HS.

I do gotta say I am a bit tired of the internet definitions for the terms "bad boy" and "nice guy". Now if you think of yourself as a nice guy, people picture you as a "Nice Guy".
I know I'm an asshole sometimes, but in general, I'm a good person, and I try to show it with my actions, and if asked, I will firmly state that I'm a good person, ergo, a nice guy, but nowadays you gotta stay away from the latter term or otherwise they'll think you're a bitter incel.

Anyways, I mostly agree with what you said in this Take.
Mature girls don't choose guys that they know will hurt them, either physically or emotionally. And if a girl you like does choose a guy like that, then don't get mad, she's not the type of girl you should go for anyways. No respectful individual will agree to be part of a relationship where they know they'll get hurt.

[Scarecrow13]

"They weren't bad to begin with"
That's what they all say. I am sure he wasn't or at least didn't treat you as such, probably showered you with affection and gifts, but the warning signs were probably there, and your friends may even have warned you about him but you didn't want to see it. Once the abuse starts, you start making excuses for him. Then the worst part is often the girl then goes and dates another guy, has the exact same problem and wonders why it keeps happening to her,.
"They're confident"
This is probably the case and it's often the confident guys that are cocky which can become narcissism. There is nothing wrong with confidence but you even admit there is a fine line.
"You view them as 'bad guys'"
It is possible that there is a guy who is jealous who views him as such, but is he the only one or have your friends also made the same observation but you didn't want to hear it?
"They're not sickly sweet or too nice"
I see what you are saying here, I can see how a guy who is too obsessed would be a turn off. If it was as simple as this, that would make perfect sense, but he should also genuinely care about you.
"They're not entitled or blame others"
There are those who have this problem, that they are entitled to any girl. These are the ones who are the fake nice guys. However, based on the rest of what was stated hear I really don't think that is what this is all about.

[Safa01]

There has been some research made as to why some girls date so called ‘bad guys’. They say that they some had a good childhood filled with love and security, some didn’t. Sometimes the parents broke up or something else happend where the young child had to kinda “take care” of the parent and surpress there own feelings and be very considerate for the one of the parents, too sweet. So when they grow up, they sometimes fall for a bad guy who exhibit the behaviour they feel inside at times, that reckless behaviour they can’t let out, but he can and has no problem being bad and reckless, so sometimes the girls fall for that. You can say the sweeter and nicer the girl, the more likely she is going to fall for a bad boy at least once until she learns.

[Robertcw]

Respect for citing science.

[Safa01]

@Robertcw thank you : )

[Spawnface]

Interesting, but it only seems like a fraction of what happens. Nice take though

[AriesMale]

@Robertcw there’s no proper citations tho :/ it’s like saying correlation is causation.

[Hannah591]

Very interesting, thank-you for sharing! myTake is more a direct statement to 'nice guys' but I can see how my upbringing influenced the guys I fell for.

[LogicBomber]

As bitter as basement dwelling redditors may be, women do date assholes early in life. They are like magnets to arrogant frat style pricks. They piss and moan about how they want the complete opposite, but they actually want a guy who is exactly a frat asshole but with a secret "nice guy" side.
This doesn't exist.

It's only after female looks fade that they start to look for the actual nice guys and avoid the frat meatheads. But by then the nice guys are either married, focusing on work, successful enough to be looking for younger more attractive women, or have become jilted angry redditors. *Which you can't really blame them for. Imagine spending your life being the actual nice guy only to be constantly fucked over for the asshole, you not only get angry and vengeful, you discover that being nice isn't what the women want. SO women create the angry reddit "nice guys" by treating actual nice guys like shit in the early "wild girl" phase of their life.

Only after the looks fade do women start to understand what these males feel, which is why most desperate middle age women start becoming angry hateful feminist. It's two ends of the same spectrum.

[cavmanier]

Is this some girls date bad dudes early? Because when you said, "It's only after female looks fade that they start to look for the actual nice guys and avoid the frat meatheads. But by then the nice guys are either married," I was thinking how they would be with women if those women only wanted bad dudes?

[lernulo]

I have some doubts:
1. Where is the man in your answer? Nice guys/aren't men, bad guys are just cry babies who abuse their power, so, where is the man?
2. About bad guys don't blaming others, let me tell you something... YES THEY DO, I'm used to see how they pass the fault to other people, lack of respect and pass you the problem, and you are the one who really solve it.
MEN are who doesn't blame others because they are more focused on problem solving that on surviving.
3. They don't trate bad her at the beginning and being bad with people doesn't mean to be bad with you.
There is a problem with that thinking, it's the Antoinette mistake, if I don't know anything. Im innocent, no, you aren't, if you are with someone who lacks the respect to others, or who push them too charge or that is bad, you are with him at time to pay.
And if they treat you badly, it was your choice.
I don't feel any pity when a girl who chooses one of them as partner is bad treated, it was her choice just, don't come to me asking for help, and if your boy treat bad to other people and they go for you, do you know how finish Antoinette?

[Pejtu]

Bad boy is not the kind of dude tha will beat ur face up on the street without any hesitation for no reason

this kind of a guy is i give u my example

straight forward with intentions towards this one girl

i ain't gonna take ur shit or bragging about other dudes on my shoulder

im not a mindreader ifsomething is wrong u tell me , or if u say these words " you should know why im mad" i will shut the door and never come back

im brutally honest about everything , if i dont like ur skirt or whatever i will tell you that first

i stand up for my words and im not gonna say "sorry" if i know i am right about something or if we argue

i am the way i am and if u try to change "me" into someone i dont want to be well im leaving good luck

i like to drink sometimes and i smoke ( im not aggresive after alcohol but i really like to talk ) , if u do not accept that , bye

i will not buy you flowers every day and chocolate bars , im not this kind of dude

i laugh very rarely i do not smile often , i never smile while taking pictures , im not a clown to entertain you , im a serious dude
if we do something funny we both enjoy yes i will laugh and do stupid things with you

and i can go on and on but u get the idea

[dude4554]

Bad boy is usually an attractive looking guy with aggressive and cocky personality. He is manly good looking, he is dominant, he is in control, he doesn't give a flying fuck about anything... he is the guy that ticks all the check-boxes on a list of things that women are attracted to. Just imagine what a protective bad ass male that evolved trough 100000yrs of history looks like and you'll get a bad boy guy right there.

And nice guys? A feminine looking, pussy manginas who in addition act like submissive cunts and drag girls around dates and buy them shit, while actual men are (at the same time) fucking them. That's a more pussy drying combo that anything else. It's almost worse than being ugly. Forget about being nice, unless you're already masculine good looking... just forget it. Of course, women might like you for your (cunt) personality, but they WILL. NOT. FUCK. YOU.

Try to acquire what women are actually attracted to, and don't ever listen what they say. Ever. Often they will say that they prefer nice guys and whatsoever, but if that was the case nice guys would be full of women and they would turn into players. But that's not the case. So get in gym, make your face lean, bulk up, roid up, testosterone up, tattoo up, bad ass up... remember you need to get girls attracted to you and that won't happen with being nice.

I know, it all sounds absolutely stupid to what women are attracted to - especially because society and namely the women are saying different things-, but from evolutionary perspective it makes perfect sense.

[simpy3]

Sounds you like you've created a fetish porn fanfic. It's actually usually the "aggressive-acting, manly" types that are the first to whimper, sob and dodge when faced with real danger. Manliness-real manliness-is not about excessive preening in the gym because that's ever so metro. It's about having a will of iron, it's about being passionate and having unshakeable calm and resolve.

None of these attributes having anything to do with how you look (again, that's a very shallow and stereotypically metro-leaning thing), but who you are as a person.

And you know those "not give a fuck about anything" guys? Complete turn off. It's literally the ultimate form of passiveness; a supposedly fem trait.

[dude4554]

@simpy3 you're wrong on so many levels..

[UmarSpiegal]

@simpy3 Spot on! the dude who commented this is hella insecure, but sadly not wrong on all his points just the majority.

[TayTay21]

I disagree with some of your thoughts. Most bad boys are actually incredibly entitled, which is why they think sex is their birthright. That's partly why they're so successful in getting it. By contrast, the guys who aren't getting sex actually don't believe girls want them, which is why they sit on the sidelines complaining about others hooking up.

Bad boys are bad even if they're nice to girls. Just because a guy treats you like a queen doesn't mean he's not harming others. Bad boys are actually nice to women because they're trying to manipulate them into giving them sex. Bad boys are typically far more manipulative than nice guys, because they're the ones who are actively running game on girls trying to get into their pants. Nice guys are usually too timid to even try getting with a girl. And yes, bad boys were always bad, it's just that it's easy to delude ourselves when there's a strong sexual attraction.

[SpearsAndStones]

This all this. Also, I think bad guys are successful at getting sex, because... well.. they're bad. They can just say whatever they need to say, do whatever they need to do, cut that wire wherever they need to. No morals is an advantage, but not an advantage one should want to have.

[TayTay21]

@SpearsAndStones I think that's true. Guys who try to be gentlemen--the best guys--aren't going to lie and manipulate just to get sex. Bad boys don't feel any remorse about hurting someone to get what they want.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

wait... oh wow... that means... "nice guys" is just an invented phrase... if that's so though, why is it so popular... maybe I just question and critisize it because I am a bitter one myself. Yup, in fact, that's 100% the correct answer for any guy who dare speak against the term as that what the mob demands and the mob is god.

[fashionguy17]

I'm 28. I'm just gonna say that your age is showing. Lol. I'm at a unique age now. It's funny. I can TOTALLY see the difference from a woman in her early 20s to a woman in her late 20s. You think like a kid.

Looking at your take, you aren't even talking about 'bad guys' or 'nice guys'... you are talking about insecure or bitter men, which are entirely different.

Oh, and newsflash... a 'NICE GUY' can have confidence, too. Confidence comes in many forms. Some people are publicly confident and some people are confident in silence.

[fashionguy17]

dude who down voted is insecure and bitter.

[fashionguy17]

get the strap XD

[Ponycargirl12]

It's almost "high school"-ish. The 'bad boy', 'nice guy', and the girl who plays between the two, are all in the same league, constantly playing with/against each other

[windknowsmyname]

no dear its called being immature.

nice is nice. boy is boy, girl is girl. saying a guy not really nice or nice but feels in entitled (motives) fits the description of manipulative person.

bad boy, good guy, alpha, beta, introvert, extrovert. putting something in a neat little box what guy is or isn't will only cause confusion. each person is different. point being if you date a guy with immature qualities... what that says about her?

i dont want to hear the dilemma between love and abuse. its not cycle. its being naive. you put your hands on a girl ( a no no, less she done wrong) then you are short of a man. plus your hurting her. which s guy voews not to do in a relationship.

so what im getting out of this disrespect the girl you'll get rewarded. hitting ( jail time), confidence ( most seen as creepy), dont be too nice be sweet after you been an asshole.

these are qualities of a girl who is immature trying loij fir soft spot in a bad boys heart. why?

[lightbulb27]

Very well said, very normal female. this is the stuff lot of guys don't get, keep pounding it in their heads...

Question for yo uthough... for me my language of love is touch, I love it. I could go and massage my GF's body, back , shoulders, feet, hands, kiss, touch, etc.. all the time. It is what I want to do and give. My question is can that get to a point of seeming needy, smothering and become a turnoff, like I become the puppy? Or does it have to be done in such a way that says "you don't have control of me", I'm giving what I want to give.

[MisterAnon69]

I have this question sometimes too, because I like you. Use touch to convey my love often. But luckily my girlfriend is the same way so its not a problem. I just wonder if other girls feel differently.

[lightbulb27]

@MisterAnon69 I'll post a Q on this... curious... I have seen one girl say she didn't like because of her childhood fear of being trapped. But I wonder in general, if too much "salt" spoils the dish so to speak... which would be sad...

[Hannah591]

I'm glad you liked the take!
I think it depends on how the woman interprets affection and physical touch. You would have to find a girl who is equally as physical and affectionate for her to know that you're showing your love and not trying to smother her.
If she ever said "you don't have to massage me!" then it's ample time to say "I want to". :) That kind of happened with me last night. I moved away from my boyfriend and he followed and gave me a random shoulder massage because he wanted to do it and I could tell he wanted to be affectionate. I didn't feel smothered at all, it was a kind thing to do.

[lightbulb27]

That feels right, ty!

[Guanfei]

Yeah, bla bla bla, justifying dating the hot guy because he's hot. Yet when the said guy will slap you, insult you or cheat on you, whose shoulder are you going to cry on?
That's right, the "entitled, nice guy/incel" you kept in your pocket as a spare tire and you'll use for comfort and free food until the bad guy wants you back.
Then you'll repeat the cycle, again and again, until the nice guy gets finally tired of your shit, tells you to fuck off, and you'll insult him for that, if you don't simply try to fuck up his reputation because he dared pushing you back.

[Ropemarks]

Yeah it super hot when a guy puts on a facade of friendship and then one day saying “oh actually I've been wanking over you this whole time, do you like me now that your soul is crushed?”

Just be a man about it and say and take what you want to begin with and if she rejects you move on and save everyone the time and effort.

[Robertcw]

@Ropemarks Fine. But thanks for not denying that what he said happens. I respect you for that.

[Ponycargirl12]

This is very true. The "bad boys" girls drool over are an extreme. Overconfident, but they mask it well and lead a façade to get what they want. Then, they move on. "Nice guy" is the other extreme.

Lots of women like to play back and forth between the two.

How about a "normal guy"?

[MisterAnon69]

@Ropemarks well said

[levantine99]

@Ponycargirl12 life is not so simple. humans are more complex than that. there is no normal. especially the societal notion of normal which is far from it. we have animalistic instincts we are attracted to vice when we are spiritually imature.

[Ponycargirl12]

@levantine99 Absolutely it's simple as that. Normal as in, not one of those extremes. It's totally possible

[levantine99]

@Ponycargirl12 we dont know what we want. humans in general and us women more especially. also what we want and like changes with their inner state. thats what i meant not that simple. and that people have multisided personalities so you can't reduct them to binary dynamics.