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I think that there are people who want to encourage Europeans not to have children.
They talk a lot about our responsibility for overpopulation, yet we have 1.3 children per woman while Africans and Middle-Eastern people have something like 5. Then they invite those people into our countries justifying it by saying that we need them because we don't have enough children. It's as though they want us to be replaced, and there are politicians in many European countries and the US that have openly said that they want to create a condition where white Americans and Europeans become minorities. That's why they push this childfree stuff.
As for why people fall for it, we live in a hedonistic, materialistic culture full of people who have no really values or culture anymore. All they are is consumers. Their lives are meaningless, only based on money, things, and pleasure-seeking. They live such comfortable lives and as a result they become so soft and weak that raising a child becomes too hard for them - it's easier for them to live as adult children with no responsibilities.
There's also a large number of them who are just fucked up in the head - they openly say that they don't like children. I don't know why this is, maybe their upbringings weren't great. As we know, divorce rates have risen, there's more tension than ever between men and women, more confusion. Maybe that's why they think that way. Or maybe they're just idiots, I don't know.
Same reason why you get gay propaganda, feminism, trans bullshit, mgtow etc. etc. The goal of some very powerful people is to destroy traditional family values and traditional families, because those families are the building blocks of society. Destroy them, and society becomes a huge pile of crap, easy to shape in any way they see fit.
The idea to destroy the traditional family has existed since Plato. Plato says in the book The Ideal State that all women should be shared amongst all men in the city state so that every man can call all children his own children and love them platonically as such. Every child should be taken away right after birth from every woman and raised at an institution, not by the mother, so that every woman can consider every child in the city state as her child and love them platonically.
This is a slightly different idea, and also an idea that's, sadly, in motion, its not just a philosophical point of view
@Benedek38 Its just an idea that he proposed, there can be some platonic love for your fellow human beings, but that should not come at the cost of romantic love.
Follow-up question: Why do so many people think we're all obligated to have children? Not directing this towards you, but most people who find out I don't want kids act like it's a huge, awful thing and I don't get it. Why should I have one when I know I'd be a bad mother?
Anyways, having a child is both costly and a huge amount of responsibility. Some people don't want that responsibility of caring for another person for the rest of their life, they want to live simple and stress-free.
People jump on me all the time for not wanting kids I would rather go to the casino lol
@777Jackpot High 5 me bro!
@Clo917 Too many people think and feel that if somebody doesn't wrong kids they are morally wrong and all that other bullshit. Perhaps if someone only wants to lead a completely hedonistic lifestyle, but then again it's none of anybody else's fucking business. Nobody controls other people's desires of what they want to do with their life and not do with their life, and they can't one way or another.
The way I always see it. It's a big gamble. Every new life added into this world is going to eventually become subtracted from this world and that is an absolute certainty. So unless someone is willing to accept all those risks and responsibilities and think, that oh it's no big deal for the next person to be born into this world so they can eventually suffer and die like how the rest of us currently will, then so be it, if they believe that adding someone new would bring them so much "happiness", "fulfillment", and "complete" their lives, then so be it. They better be certain about it.
Because it's not something somebody can rewind, undo, and take back. It's like what they call it? "You can't put the genie back into the bottle once you had released it from it". Follow through with all possible outcomes and consequences, including horrible and tragic ones, because one can never be certain that those outcomes and future can't or won't happen to their own children.
I never felt obligated to have children. It was a desire, a longing and I'm thrilled to be a mother.
@DakotaNorth Of course, there will be people who genuinely want kids and felt no pressure, and I'm glad you're thrilled with being a mother. I'm just talking about my experience here and how certain people can't accept the fact I don't want kids and constantly tell me "You'll change your mind." No, no I won't.
@JudgmentDay I do think for some people it can add fulfillment to their lives, but like you said, there's always are risks. I never got why people thought it was morally wrong, isn't it even worse to have a child if you don't have the desire? Some people really need to learn how to mind their own business.
People think my daughter will change her mind about not wanting kids but I honour her choice.
I don't care what others want. I'll have at least 3 (or more) kids.
People don't see the joy of having kids. They're too busy with their careers and time consuming nonsense like fucking around nowadays.
I am of the same opinion :)
If you are really up for being a parent really want to be a parent wholeheartedly, then go for it. It's simply not for everyone though, because not everyone has the same desires, beliefs, thoughts, etc. about this. I decided that I rather not because I don't like how this world is and the existential risks that come with creating a new person of what their future and reality will turn out to be and as well as the complete lack of control over what they will do, especially when it comes to bad and horrible things. If they never existed at all, then I won't have more to be concerned and worried about, should and if bad things and horrible things ever were to happen. Can't lose a child that I never had or never brought into existence.
Opinion
43Opinion
Kids are expensive already, and housing has become ever more expensive, so I don't blame those who want to forego kids.
I must agree.
Families have gotten smaller outside of Africa, and this trend is even showing up in East Asia.
The way I see it when it comes to having kids, it's a "do it at your own risk" thing because you have absolutely no control over what's gonna happen in their future, in reality, whatever the outcome maybe, whether it's "good" or "bad" or even "horrible". You can't control what may or may not happen to them and you cannot possibly control their actions, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, etc. And sometimes it turns out that they might do something horrible and terrible to others if they somehow turned out to be horrible. What people want and don't want isn't something we can all control, if somebody don't want kids, that's on them, the same goes for those that do want them. It's simply not for everybody, and not something to be taken lightly as it's a big life changing decision that you can't exactly rewind, go back and change your decision on it once it had been made. It's either take your chances and accept all of the possible risks and consequences of whatever the outcome may or may not be and do it, or simply, just don't even bother if you don't agree with and unwilling to accept all of those possible risks and consequences.
Those that don't want them and don't have them has less to worry about, and will not set themselves up for disappointments and miseries should their own child turned out to be a complete disappointment and let down. Or should anything bad and horrible ever happen, they don't have worry about their own children's safety and whether if they are ok, etc. The only down side is they're on their own as their own health deteriorates when they age, although if they maintain it well and consistently then that may help mitigate some of those health issues.
Personally, I feel I’m wholy unsuitable as a parent. I am not emotionally mature enough to part knowledge on another. By that I mean I’m not in a mental space that would benefit a impressionable mini human. I would undoubtedly step up and provide the best I possibly can but I feel I’m way off being productive enough. I don’t want to create a life whilst I see myself as uneducated in the things I’m interested in and I don’t want to share the learning journey with a child. I’m very much someone who will help everyone and almost anyone and I do regularly.
I don’t know if I came across as a complete S**t or just a partial one. 1. I don’t want a relationship at this time. 2. I have always been quite adamant that I don’t want children.
Two things I know can change in a blink of an eye. It’s not like I’m going to turn down an opportunity of happiness because I can’t change my mind. I genuinely, honestly (without self doubt) think I would do more harm than good to a child despite the explosion of ingrained love I will douse them with.
Bringing someone new into existence would certainly exposed them to harm and suffering that will occur in the entire course of their lifetime, and inevitably they'll also have to die some day like all of us here will and have to. So if you ever saw it that way then INDEED it would do more harm than good. I always question why and do they really need to be born and exist at all and become involved into something that they had not willingly signed up for and willingly volunteered for? How is it justified at all? There's also the lack of consent and no possibility of consent issue. There's so much risks involved, and one is gambling with not only their own financial resources, much their emotional overall well-being. If somebody is a parent then they most certainly have children to lose, and the loss of any children is the worst for a parent to go through simply because they are completely irreplaceable. It's one of those things one must be certain they are willing to risk and go through.
I'm not having kids because-
I know that I won't make a good parent
I am studying to be a Surgeon's Assistant with an advanced practice degree. It's not like you can drop the kids off at daycare at 2 am so I can run to the hospital and do emergency surgery.
Economic reasons
Its extremely difficult for me to get pregnant.
Pregnancy and labor disgust me.
Kids drive a wedge in any relationship, good or bad relationships.
All in all, I'm not trying to convince anyone to not have kids. It's beyond me why some people try to convince me to have kids when I'd be the most neglectful mother.
Companies can sell more to professional couples with no children. This is manipulation to convince busy professionals to avoid children, basically trading their legacy for more disposable income today. It’s a horrible exchange for several reasons. First, if the smart and capable professionals don’t have children, the next generation will be ruled by the less educated, and less capable people. Second, these childless people run into regrets about not having children just as they are unable to procreate. They turn 50 and want a child and it’s too late. And their estates then become a mess as they age and die. Third, they are being trapped into a lie that these things they can buy now are more important than children.
I don't think I would ever have kids cos they're annoying af.
If I wanted to, however, I'd probably have two, maybe three...
Nah two's better.
Anyway, you hear nowadays that children are the reason that parents don't get to do what they want because they gave up their dreams for their children.
Frankly, I don't imagine myself giving up my dream for my kids (IF I EVER DECIDED TO HAVE ANY), cos I'd be my own boss so I could take off whenever I wanted and make time for them.
But at the same time, kids put a lot of stress on a marriage, which is one of the BIG reasons why parents get divorced.
So if I were to keep a long happy life with an SO, I would never wanna have kids, just for our sake and sanity.
High cost of living, health, freedom of reproductive choice. Many people are also not keen on the idea of bringing kids in to the world as they think critically if they actually want to rather than a societal expectation. There's a lot of reasons. I'm leaning towards never wanting to have kids at all rather than having them. I like kids, I've been working in childcare full-time the last 2.5 years even. I just don't think parenting is ever going to be my calling which is fine. The idea of getting with a guy someday, having many years together travelling, building a house and maybe getting married and having pets instead seems like a life I would be very content with. If I do choose to have kids it'll likely be just one or two kids and not for 5 years but leaning towards not having kids rather than having them. I think thinking very seriously and deciding not to have kids is a very responsible and mature decision as well. Having kids isn't for everyone.
It's super expensive and I'm already working my ass off just to provide for myself. Having a kid would just make matters even more complicated.
Plus when you have a kid, it's another full time job in itself. I have friends who are single parents and based on their experiences they've told me, I don't envy it. I hardly see my single parent friends because they're busy raising a family.
I also hate when people think people who don't want children are selfish. Not everyone is equipped to raise kids, whether it's finances or their mentality/level of maturity. I mean is it really worth bringing a kid into the world only for them to have a shitty life?
There are people who are responsible and do want to have kids. All power to them, but not everyone shares that mentality.
When I think of having more children i think about immediately finding parents to adopt the child from my womb. I don’t have the money, patience, or interest in them. I def don’t want to deal with another man and possibly raising another child alone.
I’d get a tubal, but the doc says I’m too young.
A shitty person who won’t reproduce. If more women were honest with themselves they wouldn’t do it either..
Hats off to you for recognizing this. Too many people have kids when they can't afford them or if they wouldn't be a good parents.
It’s expensive as hell to have kids, sometimes it takes a toll on the relationship, it’s a massive responsibility, you have to sacrifice a whole lot of things in your life because of having a kid, we’re over populated anyways, I can go on.
❤️ the honesty!!!
Indeed. If one isn't willing to make those sacrifices and follow through with the responsibilities and consequences then what is the point in doing so? Just for conformity? For tradition?
u/Ra- Panic Room
Sickkick- Infected
Bohnes- Middle Finger
Billie Eilish- Copycat
Bea Miller- S. L. U. T (Sweet Little Unforgettable Thing)
Halsey- Gasoline
Imagine Dragons- Natural
Melanie Martinez- Dollhouse
Twenty one pilots- Heathens
Missio- Everybody gets high
Hozier- Take me to church
Foster the people- Pumped up kicks
Insanity
Alison Moyet- Only you
Hoosiers- Who said anything about falling in love
Alec Benjamin- I built a friend
Ellie Goulding- How long will I love you
Nelly- Just a dream
Gym class heroes- Stereo hearts
Wrong question?
I honestly don't want to have kids in this type of world. It's way to corrupted.
Some people shouldn't have kids either. Not everyone is capable of being a parent, or a good one at least. I've had some people in my family hype up about kids, but after having them cry about the responsibility. Eventually they just always dump them on my other family members. There's nothing wrong with having kids, but there's nothing wrong with not having them either.
"I honestly don't want to have kids in this type of world. It's way to corrupted."
THERE WE GO! I'm not the only one seeing this. I think people are paranoid to think that all of a sudden no body would have kids anybody if some of us choose to not have kids, the fact of the matter is that the number of those people that do want kids and are having kids still exceed the number of people that do not want kids and do not have any kids. And it's absolutely true that it is not for everybody. And besides, what's the point in having kids if somebody truly knows and believes that they don't want them?
@Judgementday I agree I don't understand why someone else not having kids pisses people off. If you want to have kids go ahead. No one is telling them not to have kids. Why so obsessed with other people's lives right?
Why push for people who don't want kids to have kids?
It's has no effect on them at all.
It's probably those really religious and traditional types of people, they feel different perspectives or even lifestyles would pose a threat to them or something. They might scared it would create an influence for their future descendents. But then again, they just don't realize how futile and feeble it would be to try and control how others feel, think, believe and see things differently than they do. There's almost always an Anti-Pessimism or Anti-Pessimistic Bias, or Optimism Bias that the majority seems to have. If things all went to shit and collapsed and fallen apart in the entire world because of some massuve cataclysmic event (s), I bet those people that are overly optimistic and happy would get a really rude and harsh wake up call and learn things the hard way.
Im not western and i have this ideology also a life with no children is stress free i dont understand why people bring problems into their life if you want something to love go get a pet not a kid but if someone really likes having kids then it's their life they are free to do whatever
Just because you dont have kids doesn't mean you are guaranteed a life without stress you know.
I think @Lea96 meant without "additional" stress, or "less" stress. I mean imagine if your own kid turned out to be a complete disappointment and always got into trouble with other people and the law, etc. And that it had been nothing but a completely frustrating experience, they might even look back and wonder, would it had been better if it they had just left it as was before they had their child? Because it's just one of those things once is done and made, it can't be undone, rewind, or reset, can't go back in time and change things. Thus one must really think thoroughly if they are fully up for and follow through with all possible outcomes, consequences, etc. and if they really believed that the "good" outweighs the "bad" with the risks that are involved, then so be it, take chances with it, otherwise, what's the point in doing so?
In the US at least, student loans are a BIG culprit. I have a job that traditionally would be considered sturdy middle class and prime for having a family due to great benefits and such. BUT I pay so much in student loans even one kid would instantly put me into pay-check-to-paycheck poverty... Where as if I go on living life childless, I can lead a financially safe and comfortable life.
Children are noisy, annoying, constantly cry, need 24/7 attention and care, never give you a break, will stop you from sleeping calmly and wake you up in the middle of the night, add a ton of extra work just because they're a baby/child, and are overall just annoying and a nuissance for years on end. That's why people don't want children. Why waste years of your life to suffer if you could enjoy those years by simply not having a child?
And your own child might even die before you do, you can never absolutely be certain that things are just going to turn out to be "just fine" for them. Even you can die before they do, because you don't know and can't absolutely be certain of that either. The smartest ones would invest in life insurance if they are raising a family because if somebody is left behind there's gonna be tons of financial problems without a doubt, thanks to rising costs of pretty much everything that is necessary, from bills, rent, food, utilities, education, etc.
Current EU agenda:
->Have a child-free life
->Europe needs open borders and unlimited immigration from the third world because of declining population.
->Don't worry stupid European. There is no such thing as an anti-White agenda. Nothing bad will happen to your country.
Because life has become secure and more enjoyable and people want to take advantage of that.
In the past, people had children so someone could take care of them when they got old, they also had children because there weren't many activities for people to enjoy outside of having sex.
There are already too many people, there's no survival incentive to have expendable offspring in the first world, kids are a pain, and there's no moral obligation to reproduce. It's all pretty simple, really.
What do you think think the consequences are from a purely natural selection point of view? More and more poeple are canceling themselves out of existence. It took disease, predators, crop failures, natural disasters etc. to take out peoples from the past yet today all it takes is to be convinced by some silly ideology.
Uh, nothing. Because it's not a genetic trait to not want to reproduce, it's just a product of our reasoning ability.
Or lack of reasoning ability for that matter.
The earth is becoming more populated than it has resources to sustain. I have a niece and a nephew and cousins with kids. I don't think my genetic material will disappear if I personally don't reproduce.
@jmstarling They called upon their reproductive instincts whereas you did not, this creates a positive feedback loop where those that reproduce reinforce the instincts for reproduction just a tiny bit with every new generation that is born. This continues forever.
That's pseudoscience.
@jmstarling Uhm no dude, this process has been going since the first one cellular life forms emerged on the planet 3 billion years ago, we are the the product of their reproduction and survival instincts.
I don't think your grasp of evolution and natural selection is quite right.
Can you explain to me what you think the knock-on effect of people not reproducing would be?
I think you're suggesting that more non-reproducing people would result in more non-reproducing offspring, but surely you realise that people who don't reproduce don't have offspring to which to give that trait in the first place.
I think they're all paranoid as fuck that if some of us choosing not to reproduce that it will result in everybody not reproducing or reproducing less eventually or even human extinction. The moral thing is nothing more than a delusion and a human concept. And there are opposing views to this "moral" thing in regards to reproduction. Some of us find that by creating and adding new life with consciousness, is "enabling", "exposing", making it possible for someone new to have to experience harm, suffering, pain and death, since we all have to go through all of those things before we die. Some find this "morally" wrong to give somebody new something they had never willingly signed up for and volunteered for, and find it completely unnecessary for someone else new to have to go through all of that and then die when they never had a need to exist in the first place. This opposing view that it's "morally" wrong to bring someone else new into existence is antinatalism.
@JudgmentDay and Countess Sarah are both correct. Having children is essentially a selfish act of wanting your line to continue. I sometimes think about that while doing my genealogy with me unmarried and too poor to think about having kids since I can't even support myself. The fact is, if close relatives are reproducing, it makes little difference genetically whether any individual reproduces. Population growth is slowing, and that's a good thing, because it's much less common to die in childhood than it once was.
@jmstarling Ever heard of and read this before:
www.azquotes.com/.../...david-benatar-74-81-81.jpg
www.azquotes.com/.../...david-benatar-47-47-30.jpg
That whole passing on genes thing is a false sense of security if anything, because there are absolutely no guarantees that one's offspring would outlive oneself and that they turn out to be "just fine" like the first quote had said.
I think that for many of those that do take their chances and risks with bringing a new person into existence probably never even heard of "Murphy's Law" before:
askgramps.org/files/2015/12/Murphys-law.jpg
"Can you explain to me what you think the knock-on effect of people not reproducing would be?"
Those that dont reproduce are canceled out, the fit always have more chance to reproduce than the unfit. It all boils down to our understanding of nature to figure out what constitutes as fitness. I would say that believing that it is better not to reproduce is the opposite of fitness. Childree ideology is not a good reproductive strategy.
So basically you're saying that people shouldn't have a choice about reproducing.
@jmstarling Well do you want the species to continue? I am waiting for when we can build an interstellar space empire and colonize foreign worlds. We need more than 10 billion people for that, otherwise we would not have a competitive empire to compete with all the alien empires that already exist no doubt.
@Asker
"Those that dont reproduce are canceled out, the fit always have more chance to reproduce than the unfit."
Then so be it. Let them. Can't control what other want and not want anyway. Can't make others do what they don't want to anyway.
"It all boils down to our understanding of nature to figure out what constitutes as fitness."
Meh. As if it really matters at all with this kind of messed up world. Well to you, "it" matters, but not everyone sees it or feels about it the same way as you do.
"I would say that believing that it is better not to reproduce is the opposite of fitness. Childree ideology is not a good reproductive strategy."
Ever heard of "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."? I don't know how it can even be a "reproductive" strategy. It's really simple, either you really want children and willing to accept all of the risks, outcomes, etc. of what may or could happen, or you simply just don't ever want any children at all for whatever
@JudgmentDay So many people that dont want children get them anyway. Nature has its way.
whatever those reasons are.
I suppose it's because you are European and you have developed some concerns over this? I say just relax, we're all gonna die eventually one way or another any way, so just enjoy your time and life here for as long as it's going to last since you don't know exactly when, how, where, etc. and you can't know anyway, that it would be your last time here in this world to experience it.
@JudgmentDay Well the thing is that I believe in reincarnation and I will live on in my children. Therefore I will raise them as if I were them. Ancestor worship and reincarnation are my spiritual beliefs. It works for me.
"Well do you want the species to continue? I am waiting for when we can build an interstellar space empire and colonize foreign worlds. We need more than 10 billion people for that, otherwise we would not have a competitive empire to compete with all the alien empires that already exist no doubt."
10 billion people, of a divided harmful and destructive and self-destructive species. I say meh. If it's gone it's gone, it would be our own doing, or rather, UN-DOING. Spreading outside to beyond Earth, it all seems to be false sense of entitlement, seems pretty desperate to me. By the time that ever occurs, and that's a really "BIG IF", if it ever occurs, chances are the human species had become a "dying" species, desperately grasping for resurrection, to start all over again. But after seeing all those terrible and horrible things repeat itself in humankind's history again and again, what makes you or anyone believe that we actually deserve to start all over again?
@JudgmentDay Deserve? We deserve to be the masters of our destiny for better or worse.
I think we're more likely gonna repeat history all over again, maybe it will be our own un-doing this time around, after all of the harm, damage and destruction that our species had caused towards our own planet, each other, and every other living thing on it. What goes around comes around. Only time will tell. If you have faith and hope for how humankind is and how the world is, then that's on you. I don't feel or see it that way, haven't for a long time and it's all gone now. There are way too many ungrateful backstabbing lying and selfish people that I had seen and experienced. I say just let it sort itself out as I really don't care anymore, even if somehow that meant human species being gone, but it's unlikely to ever happen any time soon anyway.
And besides, what are going to do about it? You can't "make" people reproduce if they really don't want to reproduce. And there's also people that get surgery just to ensure they will never reproduce.
@JudgmentDay "And besides, what are going to do about it? You can't "make" people reproduce if they really don't want to reproduce. And there's also people that get surgery just to ensure they will never reproduce."
Thats good for them, I encourage sterilization opportunities for people who believe it is necessary on their own bodies, its a form of voluntary eugenics.
I on the other hand see it as less people added into this world to be subjected and exposed to harm and suffering and then also have to die eventually too just like the rest of us currently here will. Since everyone ever added into here is absolutely going to be subtracted from this world as well. Clearly nothing is exactly "solved" here, it's just an ongoing perpetual cycle of births, suffering, pain, deaths, and everything else in between births and deaths, etc.
@JudgmentDay Suffering is good, its the only way how humans learn lessons.
I would not want to create suffering that isn't volunteered for or signed up for. I find it completely unnecessary and unjustified. The lack of consent or possibility of it is a problem the way I and others that see it. Nobody has to be born and needs to be born. If they are never conceived, then nothing good or bad will ever happen to them and neither could they ever cause anything harmful or bad to anybody and anything else in this world. Leave it the way it is as it is basically since I and some of us simply don't find it justified. @jimstarling
We're not gonna run out of people any time soon anyway.
To be childfree is cheaper and less stressful. Our species will not die out from it. I am thrilled delighted and honoured to be a mother. It's not for everyone. Especially the guys. Anyhow. Don't be bullied into it. I would love grandchildren. I won't get any. I honour my daughter's decision.
If only more people agreed and is open to that "It's not for everyone and that it's understandable". The way I see it, one better be damn certain they are fully up for it and follow through with all of the possible outcomes and all of the risks involved, any and all good AND bad things that could happen over the course of someone's lifetime once they are brought into existence to this world. It's not something someone can decide to all of sudden call it quits afterwards, can't go back in time to rewind, reset, and undo, once the decision and action is done and made it becomes part of reality. It's no easy, simply, or comfy task. Bad and terrible things can happen completely unexpectedly and that's just the reality of it, the risks that come with the territory. Loss of a person, a child is simply irreplaceable. The only thing one can really do is invest in a life insurance plan policy of some kind just in case, should anything every go really bad and wrong.
I didn't know it was a thing - There always seem to be people around who preferred not to have kids - It wasn't discussed because people didn't want to be insensitive "So no kids for you, cool" "We been trying IVF for 10 years and spent our life saving" "Oh crap"
I personally just don't like kids, dont know hoe to raise one, dont wanna raise a kid on this fucked up world, dont wanna spend the money on a child and am disgusted by the thought of being pregnant.
You see the world as fucked up? Congratulations. Everybody here in this "fucked up" world has to suffer and has to die, and it's like who's up next to be added into this "fucked up" world to suffer and die? Even if they might be able to enjoy some things here and there to help cope with their miseries and suffering and pass their time here until their time is up.
@JudgmentDay wow go off much? Thats just one factor out of many why i dont want kids
Lack of responsibility. Liberty is more important, people want want and want, rather than give.
Some people say that, "there are too many people already".
In Europe our population is close to decreasing, so it should be a moral obligation to keep it up, for future generations.
Europe is weak, if it doesn't have anyone to take up arms after we're gone.
Some people just don't care about heritage, simple as that.
Nobody can not control what other people feel, think, act, believe, care about or not care about, etc.
Of course not, but it's still a shame.
You can't control what they want either because not everybody wants exactly the same things. All simply because not everyone sees things exactly the same way. That's why you have those that see a glass half full and the other see it half empty and some don't think or believe there even is a glass there at all.
It still seems that people are being paranoid and worried all for nothing. What would happen if the entire world had a complete demographic collapse? Assuming if that ever did happen. Because that seems to be like everybody's being paranoid and worried about. Believing falsely that if some of us choose to not reproduce and procreate will eventually lead to all of us to call it quits on reproduction and procreation completely and altogether. I mean c'mon, are they serious?
The people that are having kids are still having plenty of them. More often than not they are having more than just one kid. The number of people that ARE having kids and DO WANT kids had always and probably always would continue to exceed those that ARE NOT having kids and DO NOT WANT any kids.
We're not all going to die out any time soon. Maybe if this whole childfree thing continued and increased exponentially, well it probably will if things become so unstable and bad enough and people just don't want to or feel like try anymore then maybe that's just what's going to happen. So few people are having kids and things just come crumbling down eventually. But right now, we aren't running out of people any time soon. There's more than 7 billion people in the world the last I've recalled. And there's more than enough existential risks that would wipe us all out merely than just a small percentage of people opting out of reproduction.
Yeah and look at all the problems that Indians, Africans and the Chinese are running into as a result of their population.
Less people in this world would solve most, if not all of humanity's problems.
"Less people in this world would solve most, if not all of humanity's problems."
It would reduce the odds of nations fighting and warring over resources once those limited resources are heavily strained and drained. The resources won't be drained exponentially and as rapidly when there are less people.
Less people born would mean less people have to experience pain, suffering and then also have to die like how we all have to now since we all exist. Less people born would result in less people having to die eventually.
@Cammy137 But the problem I think is that the majority of the world have an Anti-Pessimism Anti-Pessimistic or even Anti-Realistic or Unrealistic bias and favors toward an Optimism Bias. If all things collapsed, crumbled and the whole world suffered a great cataclysm with so many people dead, I bet those that have that Optimism Bias and are Unrealistic would only then get a rude wake up call. They always want something to believe in and hope for, but I find that to be a false sense of security and only setting themselves up for nothing but disappointments and miseries. Those of us that are entirely Cynical already have the mind set that there really isn't any more to hope for and and whatever we hope for, anything "good" that we hope for is just falsely in our heads, wishful thinking, etc. And it's like "TOLD YOU SO BUT YOU BUT IT ALL FELL ON DEAF EARS."
I see no problem. Whether people do or don't want children should be up to them, and neither of both options deserves to be shamed or hyped, if you ask me.
Because feminism is robbing women of their natural biological desire to have children during their most prime years. Once women wake up its they are in their mid-30’s and their pregnancy is considered high risk and the odds of birth defects goes up significantly.
Personally, I don’t want children. They’re extremely expensive, loud, messy, and I don’t think I would make a very good mother.
I can't think of any single reason to have them. But I have plenty of reasons why getting sterilized is a great idea.
Give me these reasons.
1. Pregnancy. I'm sure you don't know what things it can cause and how it can destroy a body.
2. Money. I don't think the explanation is needed. I love luxury.
3. Time. I would rather to spend it doing anything else, like travelling
4. This is the most important point for me. I would love to have the strongest possible romantic bond with a man. He will be the most loved person by me. I would rather spend time having sex with him, or talking with him, or do anything together with him than with kids. People with kids say that they love both their partner and their kids equally, just in a different way. I don't want to be loved equally to nobody. I wanna be number 1 without a single doubt
Can you give non-materialistic reasons?
Pregnancy, time, and bond with a husband aren't materialistic things.
True.
So you must have read it wrong the first time if you asked that question
yeah. sooo many replies.
And your own children can die before you do, and might turn out to be completely disappointments.
@JudgmentDay Those are your reasons, not really mine
I absolutely want children. I could care less about material things.
let's have 3
No thanks
In most European countries birth rates have actually been on rise for a couple years now. Especially here in Germany people are settling at younger ages again and getting kids sooner.
Actual Germans or neo-Germans?
That's not documented. But they started seriously rising in 2014 while the refugee crisis only started in 2015
Oh interesting.
Well that should prove and explain that people are just merely paranoid about things like "depopulation". Paranoid and think that just because some people choose to not have kids and don't want kids would result in everybody eventually not having kids. They must be overly worried and concerned that their future descendants would eventually decide to not have and not want any kids or something, and even then, they just don't get that it's something no one else has control over, somebody either wants children or they just don't, it's really simple as that.
@JudgmentDay You should REALLY look into evolutionary psychology because you are extremely disconnected from the natural world, and dont say you walk in nature a lot... The mechanics of nature are the way they are my dude. You need to look beyond the material.
@Asker You're wasting your time if you believe that everyone has to reproduce or try to convince everyone to. I'm anti-natalist myself. I once asked myself would I feel more miserable and unhappy if I had kids of my own and either A. They turned out to be nothing but disappointments and failures or B. Something horrible, tragic and unexpected happens to them and I am completely powerless to do anything about it.
Or would I feel more miserable and unhappy for never being someone's father and parent and never experiencing what it's like to be someone's father ir parent.
I decided the former would make me more miserable and unhappy, because it would create additional room for even more unhappines and miseries not only for myself but the people that I otherwise would have created and brought into existence.
Loss of a child is the worst possible experience one would have to go through and it's just simply because they are IRREPLACEABLE.
@JudgmentDay "has" nobody has to reproduce dude, never said so, never implied this. You can go on as many unhappiness charades as you want my dude.
Yeah, but then women start to feel that nagging desire to have kids when they're in their 30s, when it's likely too late to find a good, committed man, so they find "alternate sources" of sperm. And poof, another fatherless child is brought into the world to face the shitty realities of being raised without a good father. Nice.
Because not having kids is the single best thing you can do for both yourself and the entire world. It is literally the epitome of a humanitarian act.
Its really sick to think that way.
Why exactly is that thinking "sick"? I don't hate children, but having them is a sacrifice.
Having no children is best for you because it maximizes your success, your wealth, your free time, and the list goes on.
Having no children is best for the world because that is one less person expending the earth's natural resources, one less person starving (because the food a child would've eaten could instead be eaten by someone who is already alive), one less person thirsty, one less person homeless, and again, the list goes on.
If you're going to have children, adopt. Philosophically speaking, anyone who brings another child into the world instead of adopting is by definition, literally evil. If you're already willing to expend your resources on a child, do so on a child that is already alive. If not, you are literally perpetuating another child's suffering for the sake of having one with the same blood type and pigment in their hair as you.
@ShortCircuit Are you an Anti-natalist too? You sure sounded like one to me.
@JudgmentDay Well I don't think giving birth is inherently bad. But given the current circumstances, adopting a child who has already been born is more morally virtuous than giving birth to a new child.
Indeed. The fact that you said it's "the epitome of a humanitarian act." Being an anti-natalist I find that the bad and horrible things in this world outweighs most if not all of the good things, there simply is no justification that a new person has to be born and added into this world just so they can also become exposed to harm and suffering and then have to die eventually just like the rest of us here will too?
It's also a lack of consent issue, they obviously can't and didn't willingly signed up to become involved with this world and never willingly volunteered to come here into this world, adoption is "more morally virtuous" indeed, because one isn't imposing an existence upon someone else new, but rather taking care of somebody else that is ALREADY IN EXISTENCE and NEEDS to be taken care of, and thus there are no lack of consent issues there.
@JudgmentDay That's where you lost me. No, I suppose I'm not an anti-natalist. I don't believe that the cons outweigh the pros. If you believe such a thing, then the logical conclusion is that life is not worth living even if you're already here and fully consented to it.
I also don't think conceiving someone is a violation of their individual liberties, because they are not yet an individual.
I only meant that giving birth to a new child *as opposed to* adopting a new child is morally wrong in the sense that it is a wasted opportunity to cease existing human suffering.
*adopting a child*
removed: "new"
"logical conclusion is that life is not worth living even if you're already here and fully consented to it."
More like that new life is not worth creating to be put at risk and exposed to harm and suffering. Thus by not creating and adding new life, then that supposed new life is spared from all and any of the suffering and harm it otherwise would be exposed to.
Kind of like how this chart:
shaunmiller.files.wordpress.com/.../...-values.png
"I only meant that giving birth to a new child *as opposed to* adopting a new child is morally wrong in the sense that it is a wasted opportunity to cease existing human suffering."
I see. I get what you mean that those kids that are placed in adoption centers and/or orphanages are already suffering and could use support and help that they are lacking, that's what you meant by "opportunity".
@JudgmentDay Yes, precisely. I wouldn't compel someone who didn't want kids to adopt a kid, but someone who wants a kid has the *opportunity* to support an orphan, but wastes it if they conceive a new child instead.
Also, I believe that graph (and thus, your ideology) is flawed, because I would consider the absence of pleasure equally bad as the presence of pain. I would sooner stub my toe and then eat ice cream than be unconscious for an equal amount of time.
It came from David Benatar's book. But the absent of pleasure part strictly applies to as if that someone that does not exist and is NOT currently in existence for it to not be a "bad" thing, simply because you can not deprive someone that isn't born of those "pleasurable" things as they didn't exist and is not conceived at all.
If somebody is already in existence, then "absent of pleasure" would thus mean they ARE being deprived of those things.
@JudgmentDay By that logic, a person who doesn't exist cannot be deprived of pain either. Thus both the absence of pain and the absence of pleasure are neutral.
But I don't believe that either. At the very least, a pleasure and a pain of equal duration and intensity are also equal in magnitude (pleasures being in the positive direction and pains in the negative direction). However, I'd even venture to say that for any pleasure and pain equal in duration and intensity, the pleasure has twice the magnitude of the pain.
That would explain my preference for experiencing a pleasure and a pain equal in duration and intensity than no pleasure nor pain at all.
It should be neutral, you're right.
I once asked myself would I feel more miserable and unhappy if I had kids of my own and either
A. They turned out to be nothing but disappointments and failures? or
B. Something horrible, tragic and unexpected happens to them and I am completely powerless to do anything about it?
Or would I feel more miserable and unhappy for never being someone's father and parent and never experiencing what it's like to be someone's father or parent?
I weighed the two and ultimately decided the former would make me more miserable and unhappy, because it would create additional room for even more unhappines and miseries not only for myself but the people that I otherwise would have created and brought into existence. More people added meant mire possibilities of miseries and unhappiness.
The loss of a child is the worst possible experience one would have to go through and it's just simply because they are IRREPLACEABLE.
I think it's referring to unprotected sex in general being a baby trap. The baby trap is the act of sex without contraceptives, as opposed to a woman who is trapping a man.
Maybe you're right, they are referring to people that tend to fuck around, hook up frequently and sleep around frequently. They are the ones that are at the hugest risks of unplanned for or "accidental" pregnancies.
Well you better be childfree if you think high heels and video games are more important than your kid... and you don't actually need to stop gaming or wearing high heels to have a child... these heathen bastards are always trying to change how marriage is
well i'm Asian and don't plan to have kids. i know plenty other Asians where i live that think the same. so yeah, we Asians do think about that too.
Because we're getting smarter. We've realized that there's more to life than just having kids. We've realized how selfish it is to bring people into this messed up world just so they can have our blood, or to see how they'd look like. Etc...
@inmensus It really don't matter whether we have them or not anymore. It's just those that miserable that they had kids and regret their choice and decision in life because they can not rewind and unmake the choice they currently regret making. In most cases I think those that had kids for the wrong reasons such as all for the sake of conformity and social pressures and it could alsi be because how poorly they planned for becoming somebody's parents or is completely unprepared at all, and that they had completely unrealistic expectations of how things are going to turn out for themselves and their children, thus they try and insult and spread their anger and hatred towards those that realized how having children is not something to take lightly and that it may not be in the best interst for the person one would otherwise bring into existence. They're all mad and frustrated without a doubt. But, I'd have to say, just let them vent their frustrations.
@JudgmentDay
no what you said is stupid
the human race has been programmed to think having babies is a bad thing
like retards
because the higher ups are satanist
and that's the agenda they push and the stupid people believe it like you
and it's all because of GOD and the seed war of Genesis 3
that's what are. disease, abortion, etc is all about
the seed war killing the human race off
cause satan is a scared bitch
@dannyrose Who gives a shit about whether people reproduce or not? Why the fuck you care? You don't control what others do or want anyway. You want kids? Have as many as like then! I don't give a fuck.
@JudgmentDay
sorry bro
YOU DON;T MAKE THE RULES YOU DUMB FUCK
end of story
what ever fucking rules you have in your head are gone worthless
only thing that matters is what GOD says
so get your dumb ass some knowledge
and follow GOD or go to hell pick one
you will die eventually no matter what
@dannyrose You can't make other believe what you believe either. You're deluded to think that there is a god that gives a shit about you and anybody else. Because when rescue does not come or arrive, you set yourself up for disappointments. I personally don't give a fuck and the more people don't want and don't have kids there would be less people dying altogether. Just for the record, more people are starting to abandon religions and superstitious beliefs since things are being modernized and explained through science. Oh I know long time ago we're all gonna die alright, I also recogize that ever new birth equals ever new eventual death. No additional births would meant no additional deaths. I don't give a fuck what you believe anyway. If you have kids, you have kids to lose, they can die before you do, and aren't something you can simply replace, so keep that in mind.
@JudgmentDay
ok explain this lol good luck
atheist have so much blind faith, it's insane how religious you are lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAcp3BFBYw4&t=45s
the fool has said in his heart there is no GOD
ourwayisthehighway.files.wordpress.com/.../flat-earth8-wide.jpg
@dannyrose Even "if" there ever were any 'gods", we certainly don't matter to them and is of no "importance" or have any actual "value" to them. Clearly we're completely and utterly expendable. You can die any time in the future, you think you "matter" at all or thibk you're "special'. And it can happen to everybody, regardless of how much faith anyone ever has or had they are still left to suffer a horrible fate for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, thus no one is spared. And if so, we're all merely just expendable pawns on a grand chessboard, with no more "value", or "importance" other than to become SACRIFICED at any time completely unexpectedly. But that's also why I just simply don't give a shit, although I do feel bad for those that are devour and faithful and had to suffer a horrible fate all simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, because their expected and much hoped for "salvation" and "rescue" simply did not happen at all.
*devout*
So, if you somehow on the day that you die, you are suffering a horrible, very slow and extremely painful death, and that "rescue" or "salvation" you had expected and hoped for just DOES NOT come around and your prayers aren't answered, then don't be surprised about it and become disappointed about it.
I figured that I'd save somebody else from all possibilities of disappointments by never creating them and bringing them at all into existence in the first place. They can't suffer and can't die if they had never been born at all, simply because there was never an actual "they".
@dannyrose Gotta wait your turn bro. Don't cut in line like others had, *cough* suicide *cough* and besides it's much worse when cutting in line didn't go exactly like they thought it would or had planned. We all gonna get our turn to exit this world eventually since we're all entirely expendable and acceptable losses one way or another anyway. Just be patient, we'll all get our turn and it will all be over eventually.
It's an easier life financially. Less struggles and worries. The world would benefit from less people popping out little bastards
Less people born would meant less people will eventually have to die also.
Well, Asians and Africans have way to many children. I don't plan to make more than 2. A child is a big responsability. You need to have the resources and patience to raise one...
Lmao! China's history of enforcing a one-child policy doesn't support this theory
The one child and two child policy of China has resulted in an uncountable number of illegal children being born. The only thing this proves that the one child policy was one of the biggest failures of Chinese history since Mao Zedong.
None of that changes the fact that China placed restrictions on procreation
It's clearly not an idea of the west
If they really wanted to curb the population then they would have come up with something more effective. Even the Chinese know that a policy cannot prevent people from having reproductive instincts.
Maybe that's the whole point with GMO's? Possibly a way to control the food supplies, maybe even vaccines too? Who knows? Maybe eventually our life spans would have to be shortened instead of lengthened, because you can never know what those that really runs the world can do and want. I suppose that those things might be possibilities if they are overly concerned about an exponentially growing reproduction rate vs the the limited and finite amount of resources available on the planet.
Because some people recognize/realize and admit that they don't/won't make good parents. Others are selfish. Either way, it's good because children need good, selfless parents.
Because having children is a life sentence, some people just don't want that. I myself wouldn't mind having kids someday, but I totally get why some people wouldn't want to.
If only more people are understanding and don't judge those that feel, think, and believed differently about this, if only.
Having a kid is expensive and often can put someone's career on hold or stop it permanently. A lot of people just don't want the responsibility either.
Could the trend eventually increase taxes? If it becomes too popular, there will be fewer young people to support an aging population.
That is indeed the case for some countries. There aren't enough young people in social/caretaker jobs to take care of nigh double the amount of elder people, so they have to prolong pensions, decrease pension, increase salary, etc...
Ideally it would be a constant, for every elder person you'd have one young person, and it would work out optimally.
Then does that mean the aging population won't last as long as previous generations as their support from generations after them are shrinking?
In most countries it isn't as drastic as in china, where the sense of family is much stronger. Most countres get into financial troubles and have to redistribute their finances, for example living in a retirement center would cost more while a social worker might have to do more work for the same pay. I know here in luxembourg when taking care of children it used to be 8 kids per adult, and now it's 13 kids per adult, but for the same wage. Workload increases while pay is "lower" or the same, to say it simply
We're facing a similar problem here in the rural Midwest. The retirement homes are always advertising for help. It's an aging demographic. The young people move away and dont come back, becuz there's nothing here but corn. That's not a lot of jobs. So retirement homes end up understaffed.
Eventually they'l have automated robot units and machines that will provide assistance and take care of the aging population, especially now with AI being developed and researched. Only time will tell. That way those retirement and nursing homes won't have to worry too much about being understaffed.
The problem woth having AI/robots for that type of job is that those aren't human, there's a lot more to taking care of elder people (or any social job in general) than just "clean them, feed them, done". I have internships with seniors, currently in a type of daycare for seniors, and I find myself talking with them most of the time, listening to their stories, and giving them empathy, and doing diffrent activities while having to adapt them if they're too hard, easy, or if the guests aren't interested, in ways a machine or AI just couldn't replicate. They need the human aspect of care as well, not just being cared for in general
@4pple But in terms of being understaffed and not having enough workers to fill those positions I don't see why they wouldn't use it as a substitute eventually. In the beginning AI will still have it's limitations, but as it grows and evolves, it can probably mimic or imitate human emotions and have emotional intelligence programmed to create the illusions of emotions and emotional responses. Maybe then it would make things more comfy. And perhaps much later on in the future, those caretaker robots or androids can be made to almost appear perfectly human lifelike on the outside that it would be difficult to tell the difference.
I'm just sayin' that if they are greatly understaffed that may be something they'll have to look forward to implementing eventually. I guess there just isn't enough people that's signing up to train and go to school for those jobs to take care of the elderly in retirement and nursing homes then? Guess they just aren't interested enough?
People are like that, majority of the time they would almost always really just be acting solely if not mostly in their own best interests. Milking the clock at work is what that sounded like to me.
We'll see in 5 decades or more later if AI and robotics ever reach the point where they are advanced enough and had evolved enough to provide assistance on a regular basis to their aging, dying creators. Only time will tell.
But it's happening as you can clearly see it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hz3IY4Zzn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYFLVFni1to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuwP5iOB-gs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUkVrJUB20
Baby trap.. oh god
NHS could be sued for this marketing gone wrong statement.
I think the reason I don't want children is because my mom ran a daycare so she could be home to raise us. From 1st grade until I moved out the house was full of babies and toddlers. I've had my fill.
Cost of living in a lot of places is astronomical and kids are expensive. If I were starting out now, I would avoid having kids, too.
I would love to have one I’m just scared of the delivery stuff :,(
I’m terrified of the cutting me open a bit if the baby can’t fit or the after effects
Adopt, or hire a surrogate mother?
@tyler it just.. it wouldn’t feel right to me :,( I want my baby to be half of me and my fiancée you know?
Out of compassion, I wouldn't raise children, plus you can really begin to introspect.
This world is fucked up, that's why. They don't want to push a life into it that didn't ask for it.
High 5 me bro.
Too many people have an optimism bias. They probably never heard of Murphy's Law or simply just don't care at all and only want to hear what makes them "feel good" and "feel comfy".
@JudgmentDay
Indeed. If I do get a wife, I plan to adopt.
Those are all very big "ifs"", I wouldn't want to be with anybody that is overly optimistic and blindly optimistic. I'm very cynical and have a very cynical outlook, so unless somebody was similarly like that and have the same or similar outlook our differences won't work and we'd just go our separate ways one way or another anyway, and thus I'd only be back to square one.
I think adoption makes sense overall and is much "fairer", no existence imposed upon somebody else, because they are ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, thus you did not give them something they did not willingly signed up for and volunteered for. There is also no "lack of consent issue" of whether they want to be involved with you and this world or not, whether they want to be adopted by you or not, since they are ALREADY here and part of this world. Unlike how we can't get consent from someone that hasn't existed and yet to exist. And if things don't work out, starting over won't be as hard compared to having biological kids.
It had to be time, I'm start to hate that magazine. People can do what they desire but kids are the most previous things we can have in our life
But they can also die before you do and are completely irreplaceable, huge risks involved. I wonder how many actually at least considered buying and investing in life insurance plans and policies when they start their own family. But if somebody is entirely certain they are willing to go through with all of the risks involved, then so be it, it's understandable. It's still something that is not for everybody though.
Children are annoying and a huge responsibility I'm not ready for
Maybe they are realizing we have a population issue and we could use a slack in growth.
It's a youth (the population of the internet) thing.
That is a good hypothesis.
because they want to make society dumb
also its because of the seed war in
Genesis 3
thats the main reason but people will keep fucking and having kids
so you know
There are too many people
They can save a lot of money
You can enjoy your life better
Look at our World. That's all you need to know
I literally LOVE you girls for your brutal honesty😊
One less birth EQUALS TO one less eventual death, and one less person have to go through any kind of suffering and experiencing pain.
Yep!!
Maybe natural reaction of humans to overcrowding... just like inventing religions to justify violence, humans invent stupid ideologies to limit childbirth..
I personally don't want children as this is a messed up world and I wouldn't know how to raise them
And they'll also suffer in this messed up world like how we all currently will and have, and then they'll also have to die eventually also. If they aren't brought into existence and born into this messed up world then they won't have to go through any and all of those things they didn't need to in the very first place.
@JudgmentDay that's true
Less people born will also result in less people having to die eventually. Save them from unnecessary suffering and miseries by choosing to never conceive and create them at all in the very first place.
The overpopulation myth.
It’s cheaper and like others have said potentially stress free. No harm really.
More like less stress, if anything goes wrong, you only have yourself to worry about instead of additional worries coming from what may or may not happen with your own kids, and what your own kids may or may not do. Bad things that may happen because they can happen.
Because people are selfish and have no consideration for their societal obligations.
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