Someone made a question about women not changing their last name during marriage, and I found it laughable that most of the men opposed it.
The man's last name was traditionally given to the woman because the man was the head of the household. Why? Because the man paid the bills. So it was his house, and since she was joining his house, she took his last name.
Nowadays (in addition to doing most of the housework and undergoing the pregnancies etc) women are expected to pay the bills equally, so it's no longer the man's house, so why should she be expected to take his last name?
It seems to me that a lot of modern men want the benefits of being head of household, but not the responsibility.
I have no idea /OR/ I don't want a (heterosexual) marriage
In my marriage, I want the woman to take the man's last name, and for the man to be the primary breadwinner (paying 75% or more of the expenses)
I want the woman to take the man's last name. However, the man shouldn't be the primary breadwinner.
I want both the man and woman to get a hyphenation. & I want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
I want both the man and woman to get a hyphenation. & I don't want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
I want the woman to keep her last name, or get a hyphenation. I want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
I want the woman to keep her last name, or get a hyphenation. I don't want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
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+1 y
Okay I was proven wrong. Most of the men, who want their wives to take their last name, aren't hypocritical & are willing to also take on the responsibilities of being head of household. My apologies for doubting you. However, to the minority of men who want the benefits of being head of household without the responsibility, my criticism still stands.
In your marriage, do you want the woman to take the man's last name? & Do you expect the man to be the primary breadwinner?
Did they really consider it to be the man's house only? Because I always thought it was the family's house. As in, "That's the Smiths' house"; not "That's Mr. Smith's house." Making it sound like it belongs to the man... I don't know; that doesn't really sit right with me. It seems a bit off. It seems... dare I say... a bit patriarchal.
I have never in my life considered a couple's (or a family's) home to be owned only by the man. That's just absurd. The woman is living there, isn't she? So it's her house, too.
Regarding the issue of last name, that's just a tradition that's been a part of Western culture for hundreds of years. I never saw a problem with it, personally, but maybe that's because I'm a man and therefore I am biased; I don't know. But I also never had a problem with women keeping their own last name. Why should I care? That's their business; not mine. In fact, my own sister is married and she kept her last (maiden) name (though she hyphenated.). I think hyphenation is a good compromise. If I need to add my wife's name to my own last name just to be fair I suppose that's fine as well. Personally, though, I don't think I would want to change my last name to hers completely because I like my last name a lot and I don't want to lose it. I think it's a really cool name (not to brag or anything.)
As far as this "head of household" stuff, I think that's just an IRS designation that you use when filling out your taxes. But I'm not an accountant so I'm not positive exactly how it would apply.
I will say this: I don't really see the point in making a fuss over who is more important in the relationship. I think if you come into marriage with that attitude then you might be fighting and bickering over pointless stuff for many years to come. And that's not love. Love is not a fight.
"that's just a tradition that's been a part of Western culture for hundreds of years." The same is the case for what I said about the tradition of men being "head of household". Yes, that's how it was viewed. In some traditions, people even referred to women by their husbands' full names, with a Mrs in front of it (for example Mrs John Doe)
@mistixs I thought the "Mrs. John Doe" thing was a little weird, tbh, the first time I heard it. I wondered why they didn't just call her by her own name. Because she isn't him. And he isn't a Mrs.
I don't really care whose name is used. If one of the parents is more well know than go with that because it will help the kids more. For instance if the mother went to Harvard take that name so your kid gets an easier time getting in.
Assuming both patients are neutral in the importance of the name you can combine them, pick the one that sounds best, flip a coin, or pick the one who pays more of the bills/is the head of the house.
As far as breadwinners go it don't think it matters. Lots of women still expect the guy to make more then them, and women tend to do more house work because they are home more. Many choose to be stay st home moms or work part time. And off those who work full time they work fewer hours and are less willing to travel far for work. Those studies are also misleading. Men do lots of work, just more outdoors work than cooking and cleaning.
Just a little side not: I find lots of women believe a guys money is "our money" while their money is "their money."
It's just a name. The uses of carrying last names has, for most of the Western world, lost its purpose, meaning, and significance.
Both partners should be breadwinners. Take the name you want or hyphenate to make some badass initial combination.
Personally, I plan to take my partner's last name because it would make me sound like a completely different nationality thanks to my first name. And I enjoy completely breaking impressions when people meet me in person - it makes them easier to read and joke with.
But I'm keeping my father's last name sort of like how you might see in Spanish names for the mum's family name. Not for any sort of clannish reason, but simply because I love how it sounds.
Despite all the society changes, there are still things that haven't changed at all.
Why can't almost everyone applied or remember that famous Spiderman's quote about every great power conceals a great responsability?, but no, they want just the power.
And I am not saying this just for men, there have also been women who have done the same. Also when there have been radical women who complain about things which once they have, they still complain or they don't want to accept the negative consequences.
For me I think it's not a big deal. However, if my partner would push me towards taking his last name because he thought he was in charge or something... I'd be leaving. I don't have particular strong feelings towards my name. It is however my grandmothers maidens last name, and I was very close to her... So I wouldn't push that we use mine, but it would make me happy if he'd want to use it. The easiest might be to take a new name or use our owns though
Haha. Women have historically not had much responsibility. There only means of contributing was like you said, housework and breeding. Women want a baby just as much as a guy does.. so no you will not get that as being a responsibility now a days. Women want it and crave it. So that is on them. I can go either way. But if she wants someone to take care of (since men aren’t enough for most women) I’ll not allow that to be an excuse. Yes, are paying half the bills you are contributing to your responsibility. If I was me, my energy bill would be cut in half, my water bill by 2/3, I would not have to expend so much energy to keep my house clean and polished as it would be clean and tidy all the time. I would not have a ton of clutter stacked in corners, from junk yards sells and thrift stores... non of my money would be spent on unnecessary truncates and decorations to be festive for the holidays. My house would be economical, efficient and modern with half if not close to 70% less expenses.
Now to your final point, and main premise. I would prefer that she take my last name to show oneness and a sense of order against the world. You argue that it’s a traditional thing. I would argue marriage itself is a traditional thing. People can live together without being married that’s the modern way. Settling down and raising kids is a traditional view of family. A lot of people don’t want kids now a days. That’s modern thinking. Etc.. so I would argue women wanting to elect to have the marriage and kids and yet, skimp out on helping cover what they use or their own financial responsibility, and complaining about taking a mans last name is a woman running way from her responsibilities or wanting all the benefits of marriage and family with no effort. Kind of like how some women are in bed.. lol
So taking care of kids "doesn't count" because women want kids. Well men's jobs are their way of taking care of their kids and wife. So do men's jobs not count because they want and choose to have kids and a wife, so that's on them?
@kim45456 why is it giving up there identity? I don’t get how that is giving up anything. I’m all about people doing what they want when it comes to the subject. But for me, it shows that we truly want to be apart of each other. I don’t judge people for doing otherwise.
@mistxs no, I said your not going to use that as an excuse of responsibility to justify it as a valid argument to this question. It’s not, since women want children as much if not more so then men. I know a lot of men that would be happy dating for the rest of there lives since the marriage system is so far slated in the woman’s favor if something were to go wrong and split up. Most men would prefer to not have to deal with all the legalities of that process. Nor give an ungrateful, unworthy companion half the stuff that they have built. Now I’m not excusing the scumbags that cheat on there wives and the deadbeat father’s. Of course not, however, I have a number of equal or even more cases where women have gone through that process and wanted children to in the end put a man on child support and siphoned as much money as they could from the man so she would not have to work again. You’re right, it is a mans choice to go into, although not his completely since most women do want the traditional way of marriage and a since of security that she will not lose everything if he ends up leaving her. However, still doesn’t excuse the fact that she has financial responsibilities as far as the usage of certain monthly bills and the debt she brings into the marriage. Which is crazy I have seen marriage where women of your mind sets believe once she is married it is the guys responsibility to get them out of that situation. This thinking is why relationships of those magnitude don’t work. If I was a man, and I knew all that, I would be a freaking idiot to pursue a marital relationship with such a woman.
I would never marry a woman who was not enthusiastic about taking my last name, for three reasons.
Firstly, I want a nuclear family in which all of us, including our children, share the same last name. There are so many emotional, practical and legal benefits here that shouldn't have to be explained to any adult with a brain.
Secondly, if a woman does not want to take my last name in marriage, that tells me all I need to know about her mentality and worldview, and her attitude toward men and marriage, to know she is not someone I would ever want as a life partner or the other of my children.
And finally, there is a good reason why men are saying no to marriage in record numbers today. Marriage has become increasingly unfriendly to men on multiple levels. Over the the last several decades the risks of marriage to men have steadily risen while the benefits for men have steadily decreased, to a point where today marriage is widely considered to be an unwise choice for most men. Marriage has a lot of benefits for women and children, but very few for men now. Two of the few remaining benefits for men are having a family who shares one last name, and the benefit of passing on his name to his children. Take those benefits away, and you have put one more nail in the coffin for the institution of marriage.
@kim45456 Apparently you ignored everything I wrote except for the part you cared about. I am not going to rewrite what I already wrote. If you don't want to go to the trouble of reading it then just go away.
@mistixs Yes, I am the primary bread winner, but that is beside the point here. This is part of a much bigger issue. Feminists like you are all about getting rid of any male privileges or gender roles you don't perceive as benefiting women, but you are terrible about acknowledging the privileges and and advantages women enjoy and getting rid of the gender roles that benefit women more than men. You are enormous hypocrites.
The bottom line is you are destroying all the things that make marriage beneficial and appealing to men, and we are seeing the fallout from that. It will continue to get worse until the trend reverses or marriage simply becomes a thing of the past.
Prenups are worse than useless because not only they do not hold up in court, but beginning a marriage with a prenup is a horrible foundation on which to start a lifetime together anyway. Most men know that and won't bother with a prenup because they know it will only do more harm than good. Men are in a no-win situation today with marriage, and that is why marriage is dying a not-so-slow death in the West. Lots of men still hold onto the vision of marriage of the past, thinking they will be the exception to what has become the norm for men in marriage today, but that is changing fast.
It's great that women can't "rape" a man in divorce in Austria like they can (and do) here in the US, but that is only one of many concerns / reasons why marriage is unappealing to men today.
@mistixs I don't care what you call yourself now. I am familiar enough with your views from reading hundreds (thousands?) of your opinions here at GAG, both before and after your "transformation", to know you are a feminist for all intents and purposes. In many ways you are an example of what is wrong with today's women. I stand by everything I've said here, none of which you have taken the time or effort to address.
Because it like you are giving up on your identity and you are disrespecting your family who give your this lastname and changing their name is fucking rude and i also dont want it. Why dont you Change your laste name?
1) what transformation? 2) I said that if the man is the one providing for the household, the tradition of the woman taking the man's last name is fine. So I don't see where you're getting the idea that I'm trying to get rid of gender roles that I dislike.
1) You used to be one of the most bitter anti-male users on GAG, ever. You wrote a lot of very nasty shit. Apparently you found Christianity and that changed you to a large degree, but you still post plenty of feminist stuff, like you've done here.
2) Bullshit. You said you find it "laughable" that most of the men support a woman changing her name when she gets married, so your comment here is disingenuous. And you have yet to address a single one of the issues I mentioned so your comments are pointless anyway.
I said i find it laughable, and then i explained WHY I found it laughable - because i dont think most of these guys would be willing to take on the responsibilities of being a head of household. If they're willing to take on the responsibilities then it's fine
@mistixs I owe you an apology. When I said you used to be one of the most bitter anti-male users on GAG, I was confusing you with another user. I just realized that because I ran into one of the other user's old posts and realized it wasn't you. So I am here with my tail between my legs to say you didn't deserve that and I'm sorry for saying it.
In some cultures it's not just accepted it's sort of expected for a woman to have a hyphenated name. Or similar acknowledge like in Denmark where the mother's maiden name can become a child's middle name. This can go so far in some countries to include multiple (triple or more) names and not just Mediterranean but happens in countries like Poland.
To answer the question culturally I belong to the hyphenated names aspect so the name's likely gonna be hyphenated.
As for the man being the main breadwinner. Were my arms & legs amputated something between finding a boyfriend & getting married? I've been working since I was 16. Not some feminist thing just I'm not a lazy person. Aside from early child care staying at home & doing nothing an't gonna happen.
Well that's a bit confusing. Of course I want her to take my last name-- and she did-- because I want her in my family. But I don't want her to quit her job just so that I make more money than her. That seems counterproductive. Of course I want to and do provide for her, but that shouldn't mean she can't also provide for herself. If she lost her job tomorrow my income would still be enough to live off. So I'm am winning bread. I'm not going to stop her from bringing home bacon though. Bread and bacon together is better than either alone, so long as you have a good partner to eat it with. I'm just hungry so maybe that metaphor doesn't quite work. But do you get the idea I guess?
I got married and in the process of divorce. My wife wanted to take my name and now I wish she didn't. The only thing I have to question is then how do you name your kids? First generation Jones- Smith but what about the next generation? Jones-smith-anderson... then the next. It would get silly. That's why I say together pick a last name your kids would want to pass on and make it mean something good and great. Income changes. Don't be vane, both parties need to do there share. It will normally be figured out in the dating stages of a relationship.
I have a hyphenated last name and if I have children, I would name them whichever one of mine we decided on and his if he wanted. I had a teacher who also didn't change her name and her children got her name and her husband didn't mind
At what point did I say don't take the womans name? I don't believe I did. I am perfectly fine with kids taking the womans last name. Also it is decided upon by each party together. I personally know friends that legally change their last name because they hated the hyphenation.
Just because she pays for half of the dates, her own transportation, clothing, etc. doesn't mean she contributes as much as he does. He still provides the house. And women don't work full time AND do the housework. The ones that do all the housework are the ones that don't work as much as the man. Plus, is she also doing all the yard work too, or is that part ignored as usual because the man does it?
Then it comes down to protecting the family. Until the woman fist fights another man and is willing to get shot to defend her family while the guy gets to hide, then she isn't contributing equally. Many women need to get beaten and shot defending their loved ones before they can claim they are being equal in a relationship/family.
Plus women absolutely HATE equality. If they were for it they would get the marriage/divorce laws changed so they could no longer steal from me. Until those laws change I will continue to believe that any woman that insists on marriage is a thief.
Most men don't get beaten and shot defending their family, however most women experience excruciating pain and trauma by going through childbirth (plus the preceding 9 months of pain and nausea).
Plus our country has been defended by hundreds of thousands of guys getting shot, so hundreds of thousands of women need to get shot in defense of our country too before they have any claim to equality.
Bullshit, men currently are expected to do AND they ONLY do the bare minimum...
You want your wife to conceive a family, feed them/support them financially, keep up with household maintenance, AND provide for half of the household income.. while you just provide your half? I really don’t think you understand how much that’s not 50/50 and NEVER will be.
I voted C because that’s what will apply in my marriage. I have traditional values and I want to take his last name, but I also have ambitions. I want to make a lot of money, that’s part of why I’m going into healthcare, so it would be unrealistic for me to insist a man make so much more than me that he is contributing more than 75% to our income.
They’re irrelevant. Consider that a poor phrasing of words. I meant something along the lines of “I have a traditional opinion when it comes to last names and getting married.”
Most of my opinions are traditional, but they aren’t relevant.
I told my wife that she didn't have to take my last name. She wanted to because that made her feel more connected to me.
As for money, I don't give a shit who is the "breadwinner". At times, she's made more and most times I make more. All I care about is that we can pay the bills.
We are PARTNERS and that is what spouses should be.
I am not going to give up on my identity because of him and even in many muslim countries we dont have such an antiwoman tradition. You have to be very selfish to except from someone to give up on its identity. In austria nobody has to change its last name. Furthermore, i dont except from a man to be a breadwinner because he had to work many hours a day to provide the family while i have to do one or max two hours work at home. As a result it would be very unfair against the man. I want a life partner and not a financial slave. And if he looses his job, the woman can still provide the family instead of ending up on the street haha. 😊
Do you have any idea how confused the kids are gonna be if their parents have different last names. Which one will they have? If both then their kids will have 4 and then 8 and on and on soon names will be the size of book.
One family, one last name. I don't mind the man changing his name to his wife's but that's a decision to be made case by case
It's really not confusing at all to kids. My mom kept her name and my dad kept his. They talked before I was born and decided I would have my dad's last name. Very simple
Changing surname, no I don't want to change my surname, don't want him to change his either. Breadwinner, yes I'd want him to be the breadwinner to an extent and spend more of my income as for secondary expenses and savings, especially because I want to be a stay at home mom when I have children. This applies even if I earn more than him.
I was happy for my wife to keep her last name. I think the name-changing thing should be over. But we aren't planning children so there's no issue of our children's surname. I'm the primary breadwinner and I'm happy with that. I'm paid well and she takes care of almost everything domestic.
It would be an honor for me if I take the woman's last name. To be honest we would do the same like pay bills. I would want her to be happy with what she does. If she wants me to take her last name cool. If she wants to take my last name cool as well. I would want both of us to be happy with the same rights that we would have.
I don't think it's that simple of a choice can we both work at the same time and can I give her the choice of taking my name or not. The funny thing is... I don't even have my dad's last name yet I have my mom's so I might get the hyphen and she can chose my mom's or my dad's. I'm kinda unqine :)
I fine taking my husbands last name. Or hyphenate it if needed for work. I will be glad if my husband offer to be the breadwinner. It means he thinks me and our kids are important to him. But I would also really love to have a Job so I can also help him with the bills. I want a give and take relationship. No "Me" or "Him". It would be always "us" or "we".
Whether I'm the breadwinner or he is, it doesn't matter to me. I will take his name as I want to portray that we are a team, a group, myself, him and our children. We are one. It's not about giving up my identity, just because that name is no longer on legal documents does not mean I'm not that person anymore. I will always be that person. I have just evolved.
Personally I would find it hard to respect a man I made way more money than I wouldn’t take his opinion that seriously to be honest that’s why I would need for him to be the breadwinner and I would hyphenate my last name only because I am my father’s only child and we are very close. ❤️❤️
that stuff doesn't matter anymore but i'd like to change my last name to his unless he didn't want me to or something. i don't know about him being the breadwinner though, we can both try and pay for expenses equally
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I won't be taking my partners last name if we get married. His last name is a double banger and I don't want two last names. We also have discussed that if we have children we only want them to have one last name (his decision as he didn't like growing up with two). So the children would probably end up with my last name so that he wouldn't have to pick between his mums and dads
I posted before seeing this, and this is what everyone needs to think about when choosing a last name. It's not about you but future generations. If a party is having trouble deciding think what name sounds more presidential.
I believe its because if your perspective and what you have witnessed differed from what others believe is right or wrong, people feel attached, and don't want to hear what you have to say. People can't take a perspective as just that, a perspective, and use it to grow one's own self while trying to understand what others might be going through.
I would like to be the primary breadwinner, and I would want to keep my name, but if it was important to my SO I wouldn't have a problem with changing my name. It's just saying he's a part of me now, which would be true.
I'm aware. I just disagree. That analogy is implying by taking his name, me being the breadwinner goes to dust. I don't see why it's important in the first place. Nobody makes a big deal if the guy is the breadwinner, it's normal, why is the girl being the breadwinner something that needs to be highlighted/spotlighted, and why is it any reason to not want to take a name? Traditionally, yes the name was taken because they are the head of the household, however we do not live in those times anymore, therefore that stereotypical association is irrelevant. Now taking a name just means we are of the same family, we are a collective, I'm a part of you etc
never said he's entitled, with men biologically they want to carry on the family name, they care about that stuff, and if my SO cares, why not? I personally don't. I would name my daughter after myself just like fathers name their sons after themselves, it's not about entitlement.
The men in the family can be traced back hundreds of years based in their names and Y DNA. Women don’t have that type of DNA and cannot be traced that way and their names have all been different. If you want people to be able to do ancestry work, use the males last name.
Most women don’t want to have to go through the legal trouble if they end up divorcing the man and reverting back to their maiden name, it’s not a question of DNA.
It does actually, because more and more women are actually preferring not to go through with marriage or change their last name because of this.. So it very much applies.
Women are to take the last name to show they are part of the mans family. They are not to be working outside the home so obviously they can't be the breadwinner. A womans role is to be obedient and if she can't obey her husband she ought to remain single and unmarried.
Nowadays women also working they are also breadwinner , then why should they become obedient to husband. Why not equally. It's all about society where we live , but India it's really different.
@adom_1 well if they are such good workers they shouldn't be married. Only a trash man would marry a woman like that like a materialistic immoral man or a lazy gold digger man. They are just out for money.
There is no such thing as equal. How does that even work? Its sounds great but I've never seen it work in action. Sounds like a mythical unicorn.
No she does not. She manages the household affairs of a wealthy politician. I have a similar position, if i hand my wife $20,000 to deposit on the way to the grocery store that does not make her a business woman. Nor if i tell her to pick up some papers at an attorney's office as an errand.
If she’s independent and carrying her own weight, then why should she be obedient? She doesn’t have to answer to anybody.. the gesture should be reciprocated. Never understood why men always feel so entitled to take advantage of women and their bodies. What a shame, even now there’s still such a lack of respect.
And you’re exactly implying that men shouldn’t expect women to be self-sufficient or attain goals for themselves.. Unless you’re joking, please take your bullshit elsewhere.
You have a very distorted perspective of marriage.. women are just as independent as men, marriage is a choice.. not a requirement. You think marriage is pointless unless the woman is a veggie and has no other direction in life other than to please a man. Marriage is for love, not sex or monetary gain. The sex and money is beneficial, sure.. but it cultivates marriage for a short time.. loveless marriage is short-lived and will never last.
@Ninjazzed I actually wouldn't mind submitting to the leadership of a man who emulates Christ in his authority, as is commanded in the Bible (Eph 5:25-30). Christ never made selfish demands; Christ's commands were all for the benefit of his people, and he promised to repay (up to hundredfold) everything that his people did for him (Mark 10:29-30). Christ said he came to serve, not be served (Matt 20:25-28). Christ led with selfless love:
"4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." (1 Cor 13)
But somehow I doubt that Bames Jond is that sort of leader.
You can earn money without having a job. Why dont you tell me what her job is? It clearly states she helps manage her wealthy political husbands affairs. That is not a job. That is what any good wife does. Like i said, depositing $20,000 vs $200 does not make it a job. Nor does buying land on my behalf vs stopping by a used car dealership to buy a car for the family make her a business woman. Im wealthy and if i marry a woman it doesn't instantly make her an independent career woman. Smh
"18She sees that her trading is profitable, and her lamp does not go out at night[...] 24 She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies the merchants with sashes."
She's involved in trades, making and selling clothes.
@Jamie05rhs@mistixs making some clothes at night is not a job. It specifically says in 18 she stays up at night, that being the most likely time she's doing such things as it also says 27 she looks well to the ways of her household... so one would assume she hasn't pawned her kids off on others and ignores them if she is so great. Lets not forget, 23 her husband is known in the gates when he sits among the elders of the land. An elder of a city of that day is about equivalent to a city councilman who typically owned vast property holdings. So lets take the evidence... she works at night after the kids are in bed, makes some clothes on her own (does not have a boss), has a well to do husband... this reminds me in todays terms of a rich mans wife who sells items on etsy. That is not a job, that is more a hobby. Better to not be idle and make a few bucks than sit on a couch and eat bon bons and ordering junk off tv. That i agree with. My girlfriend takes old furniture and sells it and buys great deals on new furniture and so she makes a few dollars here and there while constantly getting us better things for the house. THIS IS NOT A JOB. It is in addition to cooking 3 meals a day and keeping a clean house. I am glad my girlfriend understands proverbs 31. Because nowhere does it say "she never watches her children because they are watched by others. She does not obey her husband because she obeys her boss. Her virtue is her ambition to get a promotion at work."
@Jamie05rhs women cooking and cleaning is working. Of course they can work. Try again. We are talking about having a typical work outside the home job, in which the virtuous woman has nothing of the sort.
@Jamie05rhs how so? Nowhere in the bible does it say a woman should bust her butt 50 hours a week to get promotions and obey a boss. It does however say a man is to provide for his wife and a wife is to obey her husband. That is clear as day. And most godly husbands who are capable providers and who lead, will lead their woman to not have a job outside the home away from the kids and to obey another man as her boss. That just makes me sick thinking about some other man bossing my girlfriend around and her working hours convenient for her job over convenient for her family. Thats just terrible.
Who said anything about 50 hours or promotions. Nobody these days (male or female) gets a promotion anyway, unless they work in a white-collar job and stay at the same company for 10 years or more.
Point 2: her boss (if she works for someone else) isn't necessarily going to be a man. But if he is, what does it matter? As long as he isn't a Harvey Weinstein.
Thirdly, not all women want to have children, so taking care of the kids might not be a factor.
@Jamie05rhs if she isn't having kids like God commands, why does she care about what a virtuous woman is, and why would she care about marriage which is a promise before God to have kids and be a family?
@Jamie05rhs Gen 1:28 "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth..."
Pretty sure God wants more to follow him instead of less. Where does it make you believe its ok to be selfish and have no children and help bring about the extinction of man?
@Ninjazzed thats fine. But lets not pretend that woman is the virtuous woman from the bible. If you don't believe in God just do anything you want, why take any last name when you can make something up? Why even have a breadwinner when you can live in a polyamorous household. Anything goes. Do handstands naked all day. If you have no morals just do whatever. Whats the point of even asking the question? As a religious man and one with common sense, i would expect a wife to take my last name. I also would expect to be the breadwinner since i make over 200k per year and I've never met a woman who was single and under 25 who even made 100k so her earnings are irrelevant and id expect her to take over the household duties.
@bamesjond0069 That was Adam and Eve, dawg. That was back when there were only 2 people on the entire planet. Context is everything. Now the world is full, so God's commandment has been fulfilled. We don't need to make any more people.
Also, LMFAO; man isn't going extinct anytime soon, except maybe as a result of the effects of climate change.
"I'd expect her to take over the household duties." @bamesjond0069 Do you think since you make more money than your wife that you can just dictate to her what she does?
@Jamie05rhs yes because women are to obey their husbands and husbands are supposed to do whats in his wifes best interests and living in a pigsty to make a measly amount of money is not in her best interest.
@Jamie05rhs its obviously not for just Adam and Eve or else they failed miserably! Its taken tons of generations fulfilling Gods wishes to get us here.
@Jamie05rhs ok so she can work and be responsible for the household chores. Seems like too much but if she's a workaholic and does nothing else it seems possible.
There are plenty of single women under 25 that make 6 figures, and at least twice that you do lol students that go to four-year universities can do that lmao
Then they’re most likely students working part-time or graduates lacking a portfolio and/or proper job experience, so of course it would be an issue for them lmao. A four-year degree without experience is useless, no shit lol.
I feel sorry for anybody unfortunate enough to be stuck as a Starbucks barista.. that’s a rough position to be in and it isn’t worth the violent craze that’s been stirring recently.
@Ninjazzed im curious if you even live in the world? Most people, including those with college degrees, never make more than about $45,000 a year in their life. You're dreaming.
The question is.. what solar system do you live in, buddy? Did I strike a nerve?
Because you still seem to love spouting your immoral, misogynistic rhetoric in a modern society where it’s unnecessary lol yet you’re a devout “Christian” and a blissfully ignorant one at that.
You’re up in arms over women doing what they please because it goes against your bible-thumper logic.
You’re most likely doing grunt work or extreme manual labor that requires tremendous amounts of manpower.
Sure, I mean you CAN be stupid about it and work unreliable blue-collar jobs that won’t work in your favor by the time you hit your old age.. no job security, no retirement.. but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD go that route. Everybody has their own process.
That’s the only way to make that type of money without a degree. Guess nobody told you to “work smarter, not harder” in school lol. Vocational work and experience will only get you so far. It’s good to put on a resume but you’ll be easily replaceable without a degree or certification of some sort.
It depends on the degree and occupation, no you don’t have to go to a university.. you can start out at a technical/community college or an accredited 2-year program and can transfer later to save money.
@bamesjond I find it quite humorous that you assume that just because a woman has a job that she lives in a pigsty. You're implying that she doesn't know how to keep her house clean. Are you aware that most women in America our age are single? And a lot of them have their own apartments and are doing just fine. And obviously they know how to keep their homes clean, because otherwise they would be evicted. I mean, it's really not that hard. We men have to clean as well.
@Ninjazzed no i invented something and sold it to a big company and then invested every penny of what they paid me and now i live off the investment earnings and continue to invest more and more of it back into additional investments. Im actually really good at it too I've found out and am beating the industry average of return by more than double.
@Jamie05rhs most of them are single because they have their own apartments. My girlfriend is not single nor does she have her own apartment. Strange how that works.
@Ninjazzed i mean if you are a Christian you should read the bible. Women are to obey their husbands. But even common sense, if a woman wants me to take her on fancy vacations and let her live in my nice home and go on my boats and motorcycles and 4 wheelers and other toys i expect her to obey me... duh. Id be retarded if i spent time money and effort on someone who disrespects me and has nothing to offer me.
@bamesjond0069 Ahahahahahahahahahaha! You just got busted, sir! You're living with your girlfriend before marriage. So much for all that talk about following the Bible.
No.. I’m not a Christian, therefore that ideology doesn’t apply to me. Project your Christian values to someone—namely a Christian woman, who also shares them all the same.
You shacked up with someone before marriage? Last time I checked THAT is a big, BIG sinny sin sin.
And don’t confuse a woman’s relationship status with their desired lifestyle.. just because they have their own apartment doesn’t necessarily mean that they choose to be single, it’s because they need a place to live lmao. Some choose to be single and independent to gain stability and avoid being fucked over time after time.. my god, you haven’t caught on yet? It’s like trying to communicate with a brick wall!
You forget that not every woman is going to expect you to offer them the world to fit their desired lifestyle because.. believe it or not—they're more than capable of earning those lavish assets and amenities themselves.. Partners/spouses are optional, not a requirement. And copious amounts of wealth isn’t a prerequisite for marriage. People marry because they want to be legally binded to the other person, why the hell they would want to be is beyond me.. if I love them deeply then nothing will separate me from them so easily.
It’s better to have a career, a career won’t walk out on you.. a career won’t wake up the next day with different feelings/mixed emotions and decides it doesn’t love you anymore.
@Ninjazzed "Partners/spouses are optional, not a requirement." This is the attitude of someone who doesn't put their relationship first and who will drop everything the second its not convenient or fun any more.
"People marry because they want to be legally binded to the other person..." this is why I would never marry an atheist. Marriage had nothing to do with laws. In fact you can be married without legally getting married. This is what my girlfriend and I intend to do. Marriage is commitment and God. Nothing else is required.
"It’s better to have a career, a career won’t walk out on you..." This attitude basically ensures the next man will definitely walk out on you. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
@bamesjond0069 Is car insurance a self-fulfilling prophecy? Because most people with insurance still try to drive safely in order to keep their rates low.
@Jamie05rhs huh? Its not equivalent. You aren't completely changing your life around to have insurance. Men dump girls who aren't wifey material cook clean be sweet so by being not that stuff in order to focus on a career it ensures a man will dump you before you get too serious.
@Ninjazzed I have no idea why we aren't friends, because I agree with mostly everything you say.
However, I do have to point out that even a career isn't guaranteed. "a career won’t wake up the next day with different feelings/mixed emotions and decides it doesn’t love you anymore.". Sometimes they do. Look at those manufacturing companies that closed up shop and laid off all of their workers, and then they shipped the jobs overseas or down to Mexico. That affects men and women. And sometimes it's unpredictable and you can't even see it coming. That is why I support the new US-Mexico-Canada trade agreement, because at least it's better than NAFTA.
@Ninjazzed why would a woman support herself? doesn't she want to be a mom? How she going to have time to cook meals for the family, clean the house and care for the kids? It seems really unfair to expect her to do all that AND support herself.
@Jamie05rhs I agree. But, a career is something that you can establish for yourself.. it’s something that nobody can take away from you. Nobody can pry a skill set or an education from my cold, dead hands..
I mean.. this guy is obviously either delusional or in denial.. and as we all know, there is no greater demographic of the mentally ill than the Christian community.
This guy expects gender roles to reinforce themselves and expects women to dilly dally until a random man comes along to sweep them off their feet due to his own blind allegiance religious dogma. Its 2020, hell I thought we were past this, but apparently I stand corrected.
Some people will remain single and celibate for the rest of their lives without a regret, does this fact bother you? You really need to grasp that not everyone’s beliefs align with your own.
Women don’t have to be “wifey material” just like you wouldn’t expect men to live up to that double standard and be “husband material” because I can assure you that not every woman desires marriage or relationships.. some people are asexual.. like I said, get over it.
@Ninjazzed well if you dont prepare to be swept then it will never happen. Thats my point, if you are afraid it won't happen so you get a career then you ensure it never will happen because men like me who expect to support a woman will never even look at you.
I mean a woman who knows how to run a home, who is 18 and a virgin and not fat could easily get a 6ft tall millionaire to sweep her off her feet. A 25 chunky human resources officer who lives off ramen and eating out and had 10 or more men would never in a million years get the same man.
Not every man wants to support a woman, most men nowadays are just as selfish and repulsive.. they don’t want to support a woman, they want someone they can canoodle then off they go. Gone without a trace! This generation isn’t that simple.
A partner doesn’t define who you are or your success. They can help/support you and give you encouragement, but having one doesn’t make you any more or less successful than someone without.
@Ninjazzed no man wants to support a woman with a career. What do i care what EVERYONE wants to do? I just see women bitching about men dont want to pay for them, men dont want to commit to fuck just them, men dont want to marry them. Well duh. Of course no man who is highly attractive to women wants to do any of that stuff to someone who isn't worth it in our opinion. Literally just had a girl yell at me and my girlfriend because i pumped and dumped her a few years back and now i have made another girl my girlfriend. Well she's a workaholic party girl work hard play hard. No shit i dont want to commit to her, my girlfriend is very sweet homemaker type. Too bad so sad. This isn't the first girl who freaked on me before over this stuff. Its just funny some girls get it and some dont. I never say dont do whatever you want, just dont expect any man desirable by majority of women to touch you with a 10ft pole if you wouldn't take his name when y'all get married. Thats my point.
If he isn’t paying my bills then I’m not dropping everything to settle to be a sloppy and lazy homebody with no motive or ambition lol. JS. You want women to be incubators and servants and nothing else.. I feel sorry for any woman unlucky enough to be stuck with you.
You can do all the right things and still get cheated on. Cheating isn’t something I tolerate and shouldn’t be socially acceptable.
You shouldn’t try to justify your internalized misogyny with religion either.
To be honest, if the expectations are not met, then people need to break up, not ignore them and rush into marriage or cheat.
If they aren’t consistent with their word? Break up. Your partner is not sexually compatible with you? Break up.
You expected a person to do X or Y at home, assuming the other person is not providing monetarily, then work things out or break up.
Men are really bad about breaking off their current relationship before they try to venture off into another.. Why is the option cheating? Cheating is not going to fix what you're missing from the relationship, just get a different one.
@Ninjazzed well i am actually rich and ripped, im only 5'10" with a not quite 10" penis but its clearly bigger than average I used to work in porn in college actually. I seem to meet most girls standards though. I really enjoy and benefit from the double standards that exist. If I couldn't in return get what I want I probably wouldn't bother working so hard to be wealthy and physically fit or attentive to women tbh. But by doing those things I greatly increase my access to better women and so I do them and I feel good doing them, I like being strong and wealthy and known as a romantic man. It just sucks like when I look around and according to my standards 99% of women are total shit. All my exs are insanely awesome so I always just wait and wait and wait until the next decent girl comes along.
Well I probably would keep it up but just give up relationships and pump and dump hos all day. That is what I did when I was younger. I would go on a date and just try to fuck and literally every girl would spread her legs and then I would just keep fucking her until she annoyed me and I would tell her to hit the road.
Then you most likely won’t attract any decent women, ripped or not, because you’re obviously a fresh host for disease.. nobody wants to fuck an STD-infested dick lol.
@Ninjazzed wym? What you call toxic masculinity is the only thing that lands me dates. This is what is so funny and why men say girls dont even know what they want. I literally tell girls they are just a silly girl make me a sandwich and then they want to have sex or date me. If i try to be nice and pay attention to them it never works at all even though im good looking. y'all are just so dumb. The most attractive thing to women is "toxic" masculinity. What a joke.
I've known dudes who experienced having a father in his life and upbringing, and ones who didn't, and both had sexist ideas of women and treated them horribly. To me it seems like the real problem is toxic masculinity being taught by and perpetuated by men themselves. Pull your head out of your ass.
You’re only nice and decent-mannered whenever you feel entitled to a pussy lol and men like you wonder why kindness never gets them anywhere. Oh, the irony.
@Ninjazzed "... toxic masculinity being taught by and perpetuated by women..." i fixed it for you. I behave in the way that rewards me the most. Women sleep with me when i behave how i behave. So how i am is learned behavior from women.
“I behave in the way that rewards me the most” So in other words, you’re a selfish piece of shit. Explains a lot.
Nope, but since we're making up statistics based on nothing, here's mine: toxic masculinity comes 85% from households where there is a present father and it spreads like a goddamn disease.
The issue lies with the men and media perpetuating toxic sterotypes, because these boys don't have direct or consistent positive male influence and instead only see whats on TV and the very loud negative influences from boys at school and such. Its a valid point, but made in a shitty way that blames women.
What really needs to happen is a cultural change in how men present their masculinity, then if a man only had females in his life, he wouldn't end up with these short comings.
So, let's disregard the fact that single mothers have brothers, fathers, boyfriends, fiances, friends, etc. We have 43% of boys being raised by their mothers (who have no men around them at all) who are going to school and 80% of boys are being taught by women (and there are no men in those schools). Can someone who knows math figure out how many of these poor boys are actually being tortured by having absolutely no male influence in their poor lives?
With a lack of appropriate and accurate masculinity, boys tend to overcompensate and as such, look to tv/other media to see sensational, repugnant versions.
@Ninjazzed huh. You wrote a lot but didn't explain anything. If y'all women keep fucking men who are very masculine men will keep being very masculine. That simple.
Nope, you obviously didn’t take anything from it, not a surprise anyway considering how close-minded you’ve already proven yourself to be. We won’t stop fucking masculine men but we’ll sure stop fucking stupid ones, much like yourself, to prevent contaminating the gene pool.
Never said we’d ever stop fucking masculine men, if you (you clearly don’t) don’t know the difference between “toxic” masculinity and hypermasculinity then you are the problem.
I want a woman who makes more money than me. I'll just work to surprise her with gifts and stuff. I think it's sexy if the woman makes more money. I'll just be her love slave or whatever, try to anyway.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
My last name's already hyphenated, so no. Lol, I'd rather just take his. In terms of being the breadwinner, I'm in healthcare making six figures, and I don't want to date anyone in my field. So odds of me making more than him is pretty up there, which is fine (I'd probably have more debt than him anyway). So no, he doesn't need to be the breadwinner. He needs to be secure if I'm making more than him.
I don't really care about the name thing tbh and I think the entire 'the man is the breadwinner' is pure bullshit. I can perfectly take care of myself, so I don't see why that would change if I married someone🤷🏻♀️
I will never take any other name after marriage as for me it’s an old tradition that doesn’t have any reason to exist today. I don’t care who pay the bills more. I am just sure I have to be money independent even if I am in a relationship.
I wouldn’t take the last name but yes the man should be the primary breadwinner. I mean women have to get pregnant and give birth to children and then take care of them so sometimes it isn’t always possible for a woman to work all her life.
I left that decision to my wife, and she chose to take my last name. We've alternated from time to time who makes more money, with her currently bringing in more after re-structuring of her job resulted in a large raise about a year ago.
I am completely in support of women who want careers and everything that once was only available to men. But for me personally, a more "traditional" marriage and house is a better fit.
Men are designed to be the bread winners of their family so they should just keep doing that. However, I believe women should also contribute to the family expenses but certainly not as much as the man... taking the man's last name is basically a norm where I come from ( hyphenation is allowed though as long as both parties agree to it)
Neither time we married (we're on our second marriage to each other) did she take my name. One I don't find it that big of a deal, and two her first and last name would rhyme and that's just too cutesy.
I'm also fine with hyphenating our last names, both of us keeping our own last names, or my parnter taking mine. I really don't care one way or another.
My mom has not my father's last name and he's always been the primary breadwinner. He's not bothered by it. It's just a matter of talking through that.
As long as the girl is right for me.. I do not give a single fuck about name.. And also I am going to be bread winner. .. I don't care if she earns or not earns.
As long as I have a job I enjoy, I don’t care who makes the most money. I do want my wife to take my last name because I’ve always wanted to have a son named after me, my dad, and his dad. (He’d be the fourth. The “IV”.)
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
I couldn't care less if my eventual wife, took my last name or not, hell, she can hyphenate it if she wants for all i care.. like my mom did (she hyphenated)
The only thing I care about, is that my CHILD, male, or female, gets my last name
Well I want to drop my middle name, shorten my first name and go double barrel on the last name. I'm not sure whether mine or his should be first though.
Hyphenation for both of us and I would want to be the primary breadwinner but it wouldn't be compulsory (especially as she is likely to be older than me)
In my marriage, my wife took my last name not because of $$$, because of tradition of becoming one as a family. Everyone seems to always make things about $$$. I let her choose and she wanted to... not forced
So are you taking on the traditional male responsibilities of providing for the household, or do you just want the benefits of being head of household, without the responsibilities?
Well if it ends in divorce, then she has to pay to have a court order to have her name changed and reverted back to her maiden name. It’s really not worth it. Shouldn’t be a deal breaker if she decides to keep both names or have it hyphenated..
@Ninjazzed Ok? What I was saying is that if she refuses my last name then she's probably the type of stuck up women to issue a divorce in the first place. If she had no issues with taking my surname then that would've been a good sign.
@Ninjazzed well ideally there's no divorce. And patriarchies have often been used to oppress women. However, Biblical patriarchy doesn't "work in men's favor." It's more responsibility than it's worth, in my opinion. Men are the designated leaders, but leaders are commanded to serve the people under their authority, putting their people's interests before their own, even giving up their lives for their sake, if necessary (Matt 20:25-28, Phil 2:3-4, Eph 5:25-30, etc). Biblical leadership is not for the benefit of the leader, but for the benefit of the people being led. I'm more than happy to leave that responsibility of leadership to men.
When two souls get married, that is a bond that's make 2 people into 1 soul. So the term breadwinner is actually a selfish term to exert dominance over the other party.
I wouldn't mind if she took my last name or kept hers with a hyphenation, but as to who should be the breadwinner, I think that depends on what we agree on by discussion and what we wanna do and how.
Home > Relationships > Polls > In your marriage, do you want the woman to take the man's last name? & Do you expect the man to be the primary breadwinner?
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