Someone made a question about women not changing their last name during marriage, and I found it laughable that most of the men opposed it.
The man's last name was traditionally given to the woman because the man was the head of the household. Why? Because the man paid the bills. So it was his house, and since she was joining his house, she took his last name.
Nowadays (in addition to doing most of the housework and undergoing the pregnancies etc) women are expected to pay the bills equally, so it's no longer the man's house, so why should she be expected to take his last name?
It seems to me that a lot of modern men want the benefits of being head of household, but not the responsibility.
I have no idea /OR/ I don't want a (heterosexual) marriage
In my marriage, I want the woman to take the man's last name, and for the man to be the primary breadwinner (paying 75% or more of the expenses)
I want the woman to take the man's last name. However, the man shouldn't be the primary breadwinner.
I want both the man and woman to get a hyphenation. & I want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
I want both the man and woman to get a hyphenation. & I don't want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
I want the woman to keep her last name, or get a hyphenation. I want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
I want the woman to keep her last name, or get a hyphenation. I don't want the man to be the primary breadwinner.
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Okay I was proven wrong. Most of the men, who want their wives to take their last name, aren't hypocritical & are willing to also take on the responsibilities of being head of household. My apologies for doubting you. However, to the minority of men who want the benefits of being head of household without the responsibility, my criticism still stands.
In your marriage, do you want the woman to take the man's last name? & Do you expect the man to be the primary breadwinner?
Did they really consider it to be the man's house only? Because I always thought it was the family's house. As in, "That's the Smiths' house"; not "That's Mr. Smith's house." Making it sound like it belongs to the man... I don't know; that doesn't really sit right with me. It seems a bit off. It seems... dare I say... a bit patriarchal.
I have never in my life considered a couple's (or a family's) home to be owned only by the man. That's just absurd. The woman is living there, isn't she? So it's her house, too.
Regarding the issue of last name, that's just a tradition that's been a part of Western culture for hundreds of years. I never saw a problem with it, personally, but maybe that's because I'm a man and therefore I am biased; I don't know. But I also never had a problem with women keeping their own last name. Why should I care? That's their business; not mine. In fact, my own sister is married and she kept her last (maiden) name (though she hyphenated.). I think hyphenation is a good compromise. If I need to add my wife's name to my own last name just to be fair I suppose that's fine as well. Personally, though, I don't think I would want to change my last name to hers completely because I like my last name a lot and I don't want to lose it. I think it's a really cool name (not to brag or anything.)
As far as this "head of household" stuff, I think that's just an IRS designation that you use when filling out your taxes. But I'm not an accountant so I'm not positive exactly how it would apply.
I will say this: I don't really see the point in making a fuss over who is more important in the relationship. I think if you come into marriage with that attitude then you might be fighting and bickering over pointless stuff for many years to come. And that's not love. Love is not a fight.
"that's just a tradition that's been a part of Western culture for hundreds of years." The same is the case for what I said about the tradition of men being "head of household". Yes, that's how it was viewed. In some traditions, people even referred to women by their husbands' full names, with a Mrs in front of it (for example Mrs John Doe)
@mistixs I thought the "Mrs. John Doe" thing was a little weird, tbh, the first time I heard it. I wondered why they didn't just call her by her own name. Because she isn't him. And he isn't a Mrs.
I don't really care whose name is used. If one of the parents is more well know than go with that because it will help the kids more. For instance if the mother went to Harvard take that name so your kid gets an easier time getting in.
Assuming both patients are neutral in the importance of the name you can combine them, pick the one that sounds best, flip a coin, or pick the one who pays more of the bills/is the head of the house.
As far as breadwinners go it don't think it matters. Lots of women still expect the guy to make more then them, and women tend to do more house work because they are home more. Many choose to be stay st home moms or work part time. And off those who work full time they work fewer hours and are less willing to travel far for work. Those studies are also misleading. Men do lots of work, just more outdoors work than cooking and cleaning.
Just a little side not: I find lots of women believe a guys money is "our money" while their money is "their money."
It's just a name. The uses of carrying last names has, for most of the Western world, lost its purpose, meaning, and significance.
Both partners should be breadwinners. Take the name you want or hyphenate to make some badass initial combination.
Personally, I plan to take my partner's last name because it would make me sound like a completely different nationality thanks to my first name. And I enjoy completely breaking impressions when people meet me in person - it makes them easier to read and joke with.
But I'm keeping my father's last name sort of like how you might see in Spanish names for the mum's family name. Not for any sort of clannish reason, but simply because I love how it sounds.
Despite all the society changes, there are still things that haven't changed at all.
Why can't almost everyone applied or remember that famous Spiderman's quote about every great power conceals a great responsability?, but no, they want just the power.
And I am not saying this just for men, there have also been women who have done the same. Also when there have been radical women who complain about things which once they have, they still complain or they don't want to accept the negative consequences.
For me I think it's not a big deal. However, if my partner would push me towards taking his last name because he thought he was in charge or something... I'd be leaving. I don't have particular strong feelings towards my name. It is however my grandmothers maidens last name, and I was very close to her... So I wouldn't push that we use mine, but it would make me happy if he'd want to use it. The easiest might be to take a new name or use our owns though
Haha. Women have historically not had much responsibility. There only means of contributing was like you said, housework and breeding. Women want a baby just as much as a guy does.. so no you will not get that as being a responsibility now a days. Women want it and crave it. So that is on them. I can go either way. But if she wants someone to take care of (since men aren’t enough for most women) I’ll not allow that to be an excuse. Yes, are paying half the bills you are contributing to your responsibility. If I was me, my energy bill would be cut in half, my water bill by 2/3, I would not have to expend so much energy to keep my house clean and polished as it would be clean and tidy all the time. I would not have a ton of clutter stacked in corners, from junk yards sells and thrift stores... non of my money would be spent on unnecessary truncates and decorations to be festive for the holidays. My house would be economical, efficient and modern with half if not close to 70% less expenses.
Now to your final point, and main premise. I would prefer that she take my last name to show oneness and a sense of order against the world. You argue that it’s a traditional thing. I would argue marriage itself is a traditional thing. People can live together without being married that’s the modern way. Settling down and raising kids is a traditional view of family. A lot of people don’t want kids now a days. That’s modern thinking. Etc.. so I would argue women wanting to elect to have the marriage and kids and yet, skimp out on helping cover what they use or their own financial responsibility, and complaining about taking a mans last name is a woman running way from her responsibilities or wanting all the benefits of marriage and family with no effort. Kind of like how some women are in bed.. lol
So taking care of kids "doesn't count" because women want kids. Well men's jobs are their way of taking care of their kids and wife. So do men's jobs not count because they want and choose to have kids and a wife, so that's on them?
@kim45456 why is it giving up there identity? I don’t get how that is giving up anything. I’m all about people doing what they want when it comes to the subject. But for me, it shows that we truly want to be apart of each other. I don’t judge people for doing otherwise.
@mistxs no, I said your not going to use that as an excuse of responsibility to justify it as a valid argument to this question. It’s not, since women want children as much if not more so then men. I know a lot of men that would be happy dating for the rest of there lives since the marriage system is so far slated in the woman’s favor if something were to go wrong and split up. Most men would prefer to not have to deal with all the legalities of that process. Nor give an ungrateful, unworthy companion half the stuff that they have built. Now I’m not excusing the scumbags that cheat on there wives and the deadbeat father’s. Of course not, however, I have a number of equal or even more cases where women have gone through that process and wanted children to in the end put a man on child support and siphoned as much money as they could from the man so she would not have to work again. You’re right, it is a mans choice to go into, although not his completely since most women do want the traditional way of marriage and a since of security that she will not lose everything if he ends up leaving her. However, still doesn’t excuse the fact that she has financial responsibilities as far as the usage of certain monthly bills and the debt she brings into the marriage. Which is crazy I have seen marriage where women of your mind sets believe once she is married it is the guys responsibility to get them out of that situation. This thinking is why relationships of those magnitude don’t work. If I was a man, and I knew all that, I would be a freaking idiot to pursue a marital relationship with such a woman.
I would never marry a woman who was not enthusiastic about taking my last name, for three reasons.
Firstly, I want a nuclear family in which all of us, including our children, share the same last name. There are so many emotional, practical and legal benefits here that shouldn't have to be explained to any adult with a brain.
Secondly, if a woman does not want to take my last name in marriage, that tells me all I need to know about her mentality and worldview, and her attitude toward men and marriage, to know she is not someone I would ever want as a life partner or the other of my children.
And finally, there is a good reason why men are saying no to marriage in record numbers today. Marriage has become increasingly unfriendly to men on multiple levels. Over the the last several decades the risks of marriage to men have steadily risen while the benefits for men have steadily decreased, to a point where today marriage is widely considered to be an unwise choice for most men. Marriage has a lot of benefits for women and children, but very few for men now. Two of the few remaining benefits for men are having a family who shares one last name, and the benefit of passing on his name to his children. Take those benefits away, and you have put one more nail in the coffin for the institution of marriage.
@kim45456 Apparently you ignored everything I wrote except for the part you cared about. I am not going to rewrite what I already wrote. If you don't want to go to the trouble of reading it then just go away.
@mistixs Yes, I am the primary bread winner, but that is beside the point here. This is part of a much bigger issue. Feminists like you are all about getting rid of any male privileges or gender roles you don't perceive as benefiting women, but you are terrible about acknowledging the privileges and and advantages women enjoy and getting rid of the gender roles that benefit women more than men. You are enormous hypocrites.
The bottom line is you are destroying all the things that make marriage beneficial and appealing to men, and we are seeing the fallout from that. It will continue to get worse until the trend reverses or marriage simply becomes a thing of the past.
Prenups are worse than useless because not only they do not hold up in court, but beginning a marriage with a prenup is a horrible foundation on which to start a lifetime together anyway. Most men know that and won't bother with a prenup because they know it will only do more harm than good. Men are in a no-win situation today with marriage, and that is why marriage is dying a not-so-slow death in the West. Lots of men still hold onto the vision of marriage of the past, thinking they will be the exception to what has become the norm for men in marriage today, but that is changing fast.
It's great that women can't "rape" a man in divorce in Austria like they can (and do) here in the US, but that is only one of many concerns / reasons why marriage is unappealing to men today.
@mistixs I don't care what you call yourself now. I am familiar enough with your views from reading hundreds (thousands?) of your opinions here at GAG, both before and after your "transformation", to know you are a feminist for all intents and purposes. In many ways you are an example of what is wrong with today's women. I stand by everything I've said here, none of which you have taken the time or effort to address.
Because it like you are giving up on your identity and you are disrespecting your family who give your this lastname and changing their name is fucking rude and i also dont want it. Why dont you Change your laste name?
1) what transformation? 2) I said that if the man is the one providing for the household, the tradition of the woman taking the man's last name is fine. So I don't see where you're getting the idea that I'm trying to get rid of gender roles that I dislike.
1) You used to be one of the most bitter anti-male users on GAG, ever. You wrote a lot of very nasty shit. Apparently you found Christianity and that changed you to a large degree, but you still post plenty of feminist stuff, like you've done here.
2) Bullshit. You said you find it "laughable" that most of the men support a woman changing her name when she gets married, so your comment here is disingenuous. And you have yet to address a single one of the issues I mentioned so your comments are pointless anyway.
I said i find it laughable, and then i explained WHY I found it laughable - because i dont think most of these guys would be willing to take on the responsibilities of being a head of household. If they're willing to take on the responsibilities then it's fine
@mistixs I owe you an apology. When I said you used to be one of the most bitter anti-male users on GAG, I was confusing you with another user. I just realized that because I ran into one of the other user's old posts and realized it wasn't you. So I am here with my tail between my legs to say you didn't deserve that and I'm sorry for saying it.
In some cultures it's not just accepted it's sort of expected for a woman to have a hyphenated name. Or similar acknowledge like in Denmark where the mother's maiden name can become a child's middle name. This can go so far in some countries to include multiple (triple or more) names and not just Mediterranean but happens in countries like Poland.
To answer the question culturally I belong to the hyphenated names aspect so the name's likely gonna be hyphenated.
As for the man being the main breadwinner. Were my arms & legs amputated something between finding a boyfriend & getting married? I've been working since I was 16. Not some feminist thing just I'm not a lazy person. Aside from early child care staying at home & doing nothing an't gonna happen.
Well that's a bit confusing. Of course I want her to take my last name-- and she did-- because I want her in my family. But I don't want her to quit her job just so that I make more money than her. That seems counterproductive. Of course I want to and do provide for her, but that shouldn't mean she can't also provide for herself. If she lost her job tomorrow my income would still be enough to live off. So I'm am winning bread. I'm not going to stop her from bringing home bacon though. Bread and bacon together is better than either alone, so long as you have a good partner to eat it with. I'm just hungry so maybe that metaphor doesn't quite work. But do you get the idea I guess?
I got married and in the process of divorce. My wife wanted to take my name and now I wish she didn't. The only thing I have to question is then how do you name your kids? First generation Jones- Smith but what about the next generation? Jones-smith-anderson... then the next. It would get silly. That's why I say together pick a last name your kids would want to pass on and make it mean something good and great. Income changes. Don't be vane, both parties need to do there share. It will normally be figured out in the dating stages of a relationship.
I have a hyphenated last name and if I have children, I would name them whichever one of mine we decided on and his if he wanted. I had a teacher who also didn't change her name and her children got her name and her husband didn't mind
At what point did I say don't take the womans name? I don't believe I did. I am perfectly fine with kids taking the womans last name. Also it is decided upon by each party together. I personally know friends that legally change their last name because they hated the hyphenation.
Just because she pays for half of the dates, her own transportation, clothing, etc. doesn't mean she contributes as much as he does. He still provides the house. And women don't work full time AND do the housework. The ones that do all the housework are the ones that don't work as much as the man. Plus, is she also doing all the yard work too, or is that part ignored as usual because the man does it?
Then it comes down to protecting the family. Until the woman fist fights another man and is willing to get shot to defend her family while the guy gets to hide, then she isn't contributing equally. Many women need to get beaten and shot defending their loved ones before they can claim they are being equal in a relationship/family.
Plus women absolutely HATE equality. If they were for it they would get the marriage/divorce laws changed so they could no longer steal from me. Until those laws change I will continue to believe that any woman that insists on marriage is a thief.
Most men don't get beaten and shot defending their family, however most women experience excruciating pain and trauma by going through childbirth (plus the preceding 9 months of pain and nausea).
Plus our country has been defended by hundreds of thousands of guys getting shot, so hundreds of thousands of women need to get shot in defense of our country too before they have any claim to equality.
Bullshit, men currently are expected to do AND they ONLY do the bare minimum...
You want your wife to conceive a family, feed them/support them financially, keep up with household maintenance, AND provide for half of the household income.. while you just provide your half? I really don’t think you understand how much that’s not 50/50 and NEVER will be.
I voted C because that’s what will apply in my marriage. I have traditional values and I want to take his last name, but I also have ambitions. I want to make a lot of money, that’s part of why I’m going into healthcare, so it would be unrealistic for me to insist a man make so much more than me that he is contributing more than 75% to our income.
They’re irrelevant. Consider that a poor phrasing of words. I meant something along the lines of “I have a traditional opinion when it comes to last names and getting married.”
Most of my opinions are traditional, but they aren’t relevant.
I told my wife that she didn't have to take my last name. She wanted to because that made her feel more connected to me.
As for money, I don't give a shit who is the "breadwinner". At times, she's made more and most times I make more. All I care about is that we can pay the bills.
We are PARTNERS and that is what spouses should be.
I am not going to give up on my identity because of him and even in many muslim countries we dont have such an antiwoman tradition. You have to be very selfish to except from someone to give up on its identity. In austria nobody has to change its last name. Furthermore, i dont except from a man to be a breadwinner because he had to work many hours a day to provide the family while i have to do one or max two hours work at home. As a result it would be very unfair against the man. I want a life partner and not a financial slave. And if he looses his job, the woman can still provide the family instead of ending up on the street haha. 😊
Do you have any idea how confused the kids are gonna be if their parents have different last names. Which one will they have? If both then their kids will have 4 and then 8 and on and on soon names will be the size of book.
One family, one last name. I don't mind the man changing his name to his wife's but that's a decision to be made case by case
It's really not confusing at all to kids. My mom kept her name and my dad kept his. They talked before I was born and decided I would have my dad's last name. Very simple
I was happy for my wife to keep her last name. I think the name-changing thing should be over. But we aren't planning children so there's no issue of our children's surname. I'm the primary breadwinner and I'm happy with that. I'm paid well and she takes care of almost everything domestic.
Changing surname, no I don't want to change my surname, don't want him to change his either. Breadwinner, yes I'd want him to be the breadwinner to an extent and spend more of my income as for secondary expenses and savings, especially because I want to be a stay at home mom when I have children. This applies even if I earn more than him.
It would be an honor for me if I take the woman's last name. To be honest we would do the same like pay bills. I would want her to be happy with what she does. If she wants me to take her last name cool. If she wants to take my last name cool as well. I would want both of us to be happy with the same rights that we would have.
I don't think it's that simple of a choice can we both work at the same time and can I give her the choice of taking my name or not. The funny thing is... I don't even have my dad's last name yet I have my mom's so I might get the hyphen and she can chose my mom's or my dad's. I'm kinda unqine :)
I fine taking my husbands last name. Or hyphenate it if needed for work. I will be glad if my husband offer to be the breadwinner. It means he thinks me and our kids are important to him. But I would also really love to have a Job so I can also help him with the bills. I want a give and take relationship. No "Me" or "Him". It would be always "us" or "we".
Whether I'm the breadwinner or he is, it doesn't matter to me. I will take his name as I want to portray that we are a team, a group, myself, him and our children. We are one. It's not about giving up my identity, just because that name is no longer on legal documents does not mean I'm not that person anymore. I will always be that person. I have just evolved.
Personally I would find it hard to respect a man I made way more money than I wouldn’t take his opinion that seriously to be honest that’s why I would need for him to be the breadwinner and I would hyphenate my last name only because I am my father’s only child and we are very close. ❤️❤️
that stuff doesn't matter anymore but i'd like to change my last name to his unless he didn't want me to or something. i don't know about him being the breadwinner though, we can both try and pay for expenses equally
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