Which gender should lead the relationship?

[TomGarand]

For me, the answer is "D". Yeah, most men want to lead, and most women want the man to lead. But see how I said "Most" and not "all"? Because not all men and women want traditional roles in their relationships. At the end of the day, we're all individuals.

Some happy relationships are equal, some are female-led. So I'm not advocating a total return to gender roles like the Red Pill community. But I'm also not saying that masculinity and leadership in men is toxic and that all women should want to be bosses, like SJW feminists.

For me, who leads the relationship should depend on what both parties want. So I'm kind of in the middle. Man is in charge? Okay. Woman is in charge? Okay. Neither is in charge, and both have equal power? Okay. Live and let live. That's MY personal opinion.

Men

Women

Neither

It depends on the individuals

[hellionthesagereborn]

Men. The simple fact is women are biologically wired to want a man to lead and when he doesn't she is unhappy which makes the man unhappy. Women want (whether they admit it or not) a man who is assertive and decisive (i. e. confidence is a factor in this), so if he is waiting for her to decide that is going to end poorly because she will be unhappy and that means drama for him. She wants a man who can provide for her (statistically women are less likely to marry "down" and are significantly more unhappy when their spouse is not the bread winner). She also statistically wants a guy who can make her feel safe (again, whether or not she admits to this) and a guy who is looking to her for guidence isn't going to provide that. In addition to all of that men have biological inclinations that lend themselves to taking care of and being in charge and women simply do not have that (a man will not abandon his spouse if she isn't making money, he is not going to kick her out of the house when they have a fight, he is both biologically inclined to take care of her as well as socially inclined to do so but women do not have these mechanisms in place which opens the door for significant abuse and mistreatment if she is the one in charge).

If you choose both, well you run into the issue that every single thing must be a negotiation. So while big things should ALWAYS be talked through with your spouse, deciding where your going to eat shouldn't take an hour long discussion for you both to come to some kind of agreement. Their is such a thing as "too many cooks in the kitchen" and if both are in charge, no one is in charge and this is going to increase conflict. Imagine if your at your job and you have two managers (many people have probably experienced this) who are equal in position but give you two conflicting directsion. This causes serious problems and confusion.

I think the issue is that most people have no idea how relationships work between men and women because they are told conflicting things. Just because he is in charge doesn't mean he has the right to be abusive or controlling and just because she isn't the leader doesn't mean her opinions have no value (they should have the utmost value) or that she is "beneath" him. I mean, a parent is always going to have to lead a child, does that mean the child is not of value or gets ignored? Of course not, if that is what is happening you have failed as a leader, a parent, and a human being. However the one in charge has to take the risk, has to make the decisions that are best for every one and that usually falls on the one with the greater responsibility and the one who can put aside their emotions and think objectively and that does tend to be men (that is not to say women cannot be object, it only means they are not to the degree men are in GENERAL. It also doesn't mean emotional responses and feelings are meaningless, they absolutely are not, objectivity simply translates those feelings into a goal that is achievable and has the best outcome. I think men are better built for that).

[Browneye57]

Someone with half a clue here... ;)

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Browneye57 why not a full clue?

[ashkitten1218]

Weird so many females thumbs downed this lol.. I kinda agree here. Maybe it could have been worded a little better but the main ideas here are sort of on point.

[bhuvs]

Have agree with this.. either way even if a woman is okay with marrying down , shs still wants someone with a backbone and not a pushover... There's a movie called ki and ka.. it's a hindi movie but the dynamics of their relationship is pretty intresting if u look at it..

[hellionthesagereborn]

@ashkitten1218 How so (legitimate question, I thought what I said was pretty straight forward and to the point)? As for why the down votes, that is simply because women have been taught to think that masculinity is superior to femininity. That is why their is a push for women to be more masculine i. e. taking charge, having a career etc. and they are discouraged from their original roles as if they where some how inferior to what a male does (personally I think creating and raising a human being, one who at minimum will affect literally every person they interact with, is a pretty important job and one that should not be looked down on, yet for some reason in our society women are encouraged to instead persue a job (which honestly most people don't even like, its just as men we need to provide both socially and biologically or we feel we are a failure (just as women generally speaking feel like they need to nurture their offspring and be their for them or they feel like a failure (both are important jobs without which every one, including society, becomes disfunctional). So when you suggest that their are biological inclinations and that women have ones that are not the same as men, their are a lot of women that are trained to resent those statements.

Ironic really as we are a gynocentric society yet simultaneously our society rejects the feminine in favor of the masculine (as a man who grew up without the feminine, I can tell you its absence is felt and its not a good thing).

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Browneye57 (just being a smart ass. Some times my humor does not make it through in written form).

[hellionthesagereborn]

@bhuvs It is a dynamic, we are built to balance each other and traditional roles do not exist simply because some one randomly decided it and then for thousands of years we just went along with it without question yet for some reason that is precisely how many people today see it.

[bhuvs]

I do believe in those traditional roles.. as a matter of fact many women actually love raising children and having a family but the point remains that not everybody wants that, and I think a person man or woman has to have the freedom to choose. Right now the modern woman (at least in my country) is expected to be a superwoman, she works, cooks maintains the house, looks after the children and maintains the interpersonal relationships with the rest of the extended family, my mum does all of the above and my dad helps her in anyway he can, but the fact remains that not all of us are capable to the same level. And when we choose to give up one of those (like career over a family or taking time off career for family) then we are labelled and judged. Men face a similar problem too I don't deny it, but then, women have only just started to really explore their freedom, and it's not fair to ties ourselves down. It's a fairly common struggle for a woman to choose if she wants to focus on her family or her career. And the choice is never an easy one

[hellionthesagereborn]

@bhuvs Oh, I agree, no one should be forced to do anything so long as they are not hurting anyone. My point is that we are not giving women the option, we are telling them they have no option that they don't want things they generally do want and society is lying to them about this. Almost all women will want children and to raise a family (most men too for that matter), so why then is it standard practice to tell women that most of them should pursue a career? It simply doesn't make sense. We should make it clear that the majority of women will want a family, while also allowing that a small percentage of women will want to go their own way.

Basically what I'm saying is why would we cater to the 5% of women who won't want a family instead of the 95% who will? We have it backwards, though again no one should be forced to do anything.

[TruthBringer]

It's like you said. In the end, it depends on the individual. We are going to look at things from a general perspective, it's mostly men who are desired to lead. The problem with western society we live in today is that many women want a traditional man, but don't want to be traditional themselves.

Many of them SAY they want 50/50, but that's just their politically correct thinking talking because they are brainwashed to believe that allowing a man to lead is somehow "slavery". While ironically, that's ultimately what they want. They don't want equal power even though that's what they say. In reality, they want a strong man who leads and does not burden them with hard decisions. But a man who takes it upon himself and allows them to relax, feel safe and provided.

Does that count for all couples? Of course not. But generally, yes.

[Puppystarfish23]

I'm gonna be totally honest my boyfriend is the leader in the relationship and I like it that way. He looks after me really good and is 5 years older than me so he already has his life together abit more than me.

I've always been attracted too nurturing men who want to look after me and care for me. Obviously I care for them to but to tell you the truth I'm not all there mentally and I don't have the most confidence and ability when it comes to cooking and doing basic adult stuff.

My boyfriend pushes me to be more independent and he's almost like a mentor for me into the adult word. In my head sometimes I still feel like a little girl trapped inside a 23 year olds baby because I've grown up with everyone seeing me struggle doing basic things because of my disabilities and just saying "here let me do it" and now I have no skills in the real world like knowing how to cook, drive, bank etc but now finally I have my boyfriend to show me how to do it for myself.

He is actually a carer himself and volunteers working with special needs adults so he has the patience and understanding with me and knows I'm not stupid, just have a lot of self doubts when it comes to doing stuff for myself.

Some people may judge me for being so honest about this but it's the reason I love him so much because he wants what's best for me and doesn't see me as a burden like everybody else does. He wants to care for me and support my ambitions. he's such a sweetheart and I'm so grateful that I have him.

[msbrightness]

As long as the trust is there it isn't a matter of leadership but of having compatible/identical/aligned aims and goals (which then set the behaviours)
A lot of it is adjustable, providing there is reason enough to do it (which is, in fact, how you grow close and to know/understand each other)
Getting your 'love/relationship meal' simply delivered to you, as most people nowadays have grown to expect, isn't a good way to form attachments - you end up expecting someone else to do the preparations and cooking (and perhaps the maintenance and the cleaning), proverbially (or literaly) speaking

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I would agree with you. I personally feel it's when one person or the other tries to control the other or treat that person like they're their personal property is where the issue comes in..

[Mofunfour20]

Yeah a bit narcissistic

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@Mofunfour20 Right!

[coachTanthony]

It's not that MEN should lead it's that women prefer it. It's biological.

[TomGarand]

Most women prefer it, yeah. I said that in my explanation above.

[coachTanthony]

I ain't got that kind of time to read everything so okay cool. lol

[TomGarand]

Also, a question you may or may not like, as a Red Piller.

What do you think about the Amazons and the premise of this Greek legend? ↗

[rjroy3]

I've not seen a healthy relationship where the woman lead and didn't end up losing respect for the man and inevitably leaving, cheating, or both. For this reason I say the man should lead.

Simply because I've never seen a positive example going the other way. The most common problem is many men don't lead and that's the fundamental problem in the relationship.

Guarantee most girls on here have plenty of examples where men didn't take the lead and it annoyed them more so than they had men taking charge and overstepping or being an asshole

[rjroy3]

Many girls take issue with the notion of a man leading because they don't want to feel less than, subservient, or that they have no say in their relationship.

Obviously that's not what it means when the man is the leader. But many women have that idea and because of it will say it's individual or do the cop out "both lead" answer.

Leading the relationship doesn't mean deciding what's for dinner. Leading the relationship is determining what the relationship will look like, boundaries, deciding how hard conversations will be had, major life decisions that affect both parties.

Things of that nature. Choosing what color couch to get is trivial and not a mature of leading in the relationship.

[TomGarand]

I have seen cases where the reverse does work out, and a lot of these men and women are on two particular subreddits: R/RoleReversal and R/GentleFemDom.

But why are so many women are trying to take the lead and are dissatisfied? Because feminism taught them that submitting to a man out of their own free will is slavery.

Plus, if you've seen any of my previous questions, you know about my situation with my BFF and his dominant little sister. She is one of the few women who actually enjoys being in charge. She HAS been in failed relationships before, but that's because her boyfriends were not comfortable with her taking charge.

And I'm not talking about the "intimidated by a strong woman" thing. I mean their egos are too big to accept her wearing the pants and not them. Her brother told me that himself, and he is by no means a simp.

Compared to her ex-boyfriends, I have no problem with her being the alpha in the relationship, and she knows that. She actually finds me attractive because of it.

[StarsInTheEyes]

I personally believe that it depends on the situations. Relationships aren't rigid. There's no such as thing as only one person can lead. I think it depends on the situations.

For example, if the woman knows a good place to eat, she might arrange the date and time for her boyfriend and herself, but when they get to the restaurant, she might let her boyfriend get the table as he's the man.

I think in a relationship, it's about sharing responsibilities and treating each other with respects. Sometimes both might have equal position in planning some things, while other times it might be the guy that leads, other times the woman leads.

[Djaay]

You sound very confused.

[StarsInTheEyes]

How?

[CaliDad]

There's a couple of colloquialisms that make the point. "A man wears the pants in a relationship, but his SO tells him which pants to wear."... "Behind every successful man is a strong woman." The point is, both partners are necessary, both partners wield influence, and all successful relationships are built on mutual effort. I am assertive, but I strongly believe "a happy wife makes for a happy life." She gets what she wants... end of story.

[TomGarand]

Meaning?

[Mofunfour20]

Some guys are simps and want a woman to make leadership decisions and some guys are confident in their ability to lead. Women I've been with didn't fully respect me when i allowed them make decisions because the outcome wasn't good. The women made most of the poor choices from an emotional place, moreso than I did.

[TomGarand]

Your point being that men should always lead, or what?

[Mofunfour20]

Yes, were biologically logical and natural leaders

[TomGarand]

Then you'd hate my friend's sister. She's actually dominant and enjoys being in charge.

[Mofunfour20]

I dont hate anyone because i would rather have a healthy debate to inform them of a better way of thinking. Just hating someone for their opinions doesn't teach you anything about their beliefs because you're not giving them the opportunity to communicate them

[TomGarand]

Then what would you say about my friend's sis? Again, she's one of the few women who ENJOYS being in charge.

[Mofunfour20]

I would tell her to go back to the basics of biology. Men are bigger and stronger because we are here to protect ad provide. Women are smaller and more delicate because they nurture the children, takes 9months. You can't convince someone that likes the delusions they adhere to. Men dont take masculine women seriously, she should become a lesbian if she isn't one already. She'd be better off in my opinion

[TomGarand]

She's actually pretty feminine, according to her brother. Speaking of which, she's physically stronger than both of us (and almost 5 inches taller than me).

[Mofunfour20]

Hopefully she finds a bigger stronger man that can put her into her place, she won't respect him or be happy if thats not the case

[TomGarand]

That's not what her brother told me. He told me that she finds me attractive, and even LIKES the fact that she's stronger than me. She even lightly teased him for it.

[Anonymous]

ROFL. Lead? This is why there are SO MANY miserable relationships - the man resentful because he is doing everything (paying the bills, etc.), the wife resentful because she can't do anything (changes diapers) - that end in FAILURE either divorce, cheating or along those lines.

Healthy relationships is a PARTNERSHIP. Nobody leads. It is AGREED upon.

[bhuvs]

I don't know why it has to be that one person is leading all the time... Rather as people we play to our strengths.. for example ur a strong extrovert u would probably lead in those public or confrontational situations.. and of ur the introvert who like to stay back and read a book you would probably be the one who makes sure the other one won't get into too much trouble... Who leading here? Well... That's up to the situation I guess... I just think it's good to alternate the roles because it would be exausting to take the lead all the time.. I realized one person would definitely be more of an initiative taker but then without the intermittent role reversal there would be discontent from both sides.. one would be exhausted and the other could feel like a pushover

[FlutteringFeelings]

I don’t know what works for other relationships but I need my man to protect and lead. I’m an independent woman but I have to admit that it takes the weight off my shoulder knowing I can rely on my man. I want a man who knows how to lead. If I have to work twice as hard in this life while in a relationship then I should be single. A man should mainly lead while the woman be his near for support in this life. You pour into me so I can pour into you.

[ChrisMaster69]

It’s both, as it’s a partnership, however it’s not always a democracy, every now and then it needs to be an autocracy, with the other person letting the other take charge.

90% of the time it is 50/ 50 however each must be prepared to take 2nd fiddle at short noticed depending on the reason for the other becoming autocratic.

[Aethereal]

I voted C. Because I believe that both partners should have equal power, with no one leading. I personally don't want to lead, but I don't want to be led either. A relationship in which decisions are made by consensus, and with the goal of mutual happiness is my preference.

[KatherineJ]

There are definitely parts of our marriage where my husband leads, and then there are parts where I lead. Marriage isn’t about “who’s in charge”, but who is best to lead in a certain facet. Marriage is a joining of two people who love and honor each other, and build each other up., Marriage is not about one person or the other having ultimate authority over the other.

[Jersey2]

You get it. So many in here don’t because they haven’t experienced a successful marriage. Everyone here goes batshit thinking about control. It’s about two people navigating life as a team that plays to its strengths.

[KatherineJ]

@Jersey2 thank you. Both partners are important. It isn’t about putting one in charge, or one on a pedestal.

[jgokgotit]

I said "it depends" because each person brings their own set of strengths and weaknesses. I believe that whoever is stronger in a certain aspect of the relationship should lead that particular aspect. For example, I am good at strategy and making tough and quick choices, but I am lacking in certain life skills because of how I grew up.

[DJB72]

E

Mutual submission. There are areas where only a man can lead. Similarly, there are areas where only a woman can.

Raising a son is teaching me a lot. She cannot bestow masculinity onto him. You can't give what you don't have. I can't offer a mother's touch. I lack the ability, not the desire.

So definitely option E.

[liel443]

Obviously it depends on the individuals, but for most individuals it's the man

[TomGarand]

That's what I said!

[EmmaMary]

Both, it should be an equal 50/50 partnership/marriage.

[chris_987]

Marriage was never equal if it was men would have the woman last name and she would pay for dates

[EmmaMary]

@chris_987 Whilst I appreciate the fact that you, for some reason have always got a chip on your shoulders with regards to women, may I just draw your attention to the fact that some men do indeed takes a woman's last name, which then becomes a hyphenated surname.
The same can be said for some women, who are confident and assertive enough in insisting on paying not just their share of an evening out, or whatever constitutes a date, but indeed the whole expense.

[chris_987]

Oh ok, I see why people answer anonymous now

[EmmaMary]

@chris_987 Meaning what precisely?

[chris_987]

You basically group me in a category about hating women. So I probably should be anonymous from now on so that women do show there prejudice about me.

[loves2learn]

Depends on individuals. Every couple had a different dynamic. Sometimes it will make sense for the man to take the lead, other times it will make sense for women to take the lead.
.
Either that or neither. They can share leading equally. :)

[Smashingdoozy]

Neither/both. A relationship is a team effort, no individual person should have more control over the other. You just co-exist.

[rodeschaap]

Depends on the relationship. Not everyone wants to lead, and sometimes couples want to lead together. And in my case, we both lead but not all the time.

[geonator]

No single person "leads" the relationship. It is arguable that men on average have more of a natural proclivity to lead, but that doesn't mean that women don't have the proclivity to lead, nor does it mean that all men are better at leadership than all women. So in short, both people should be taking initiative on things, even if the man sort of "specializes" in it more