This is one story: I have no trouble finding dates. However, I have a recurring problem that rears its head when things go beyond dating and into relationship territory.
The source of the problem is that nowadays, it seems that a prerequisite to marriage is an extended period of cohabitation. I do not believe in this. I simply do not wish to share my life with someone unless, well, I know that I wish to share my life with them.
However, when I tell this to interested gentlemen, they tell me that they could never really know someone without a period of cohabitation, and since I am not religious, I do not have a real reason to be against it.
My reply to this, besides listing alternative ways of getting to know each other, is to cite statistics about the relative lack of success of marriages arising from cohabitation. This is often met with a statement like, "Statistics can be twisted however one wishes."
As I have no further argument, this tends to be the end of the gentleman's interest in me; I am seen at best as someone opposed to the natural progression of a relationship, and at worst, as someone with something to hide.
Can you please give me a polite comeback to the "I won't marry you unless you live with me first" statement that will succeed in showing that I am not unreasonable, nor that I have something to hide, so that I stop losing potential mates? Or, can you tell me if nowadays it is considered rude to refuse to cohabitate with a romantic partner after several months of dating?
Do you think it is a good idea to live together before marriage?
Details: Some people might consider it rude, while others might view it as a remaining piece of civility. I wouldn't do it, my daughters didn't do it, and I hope that our six grandchildren won't do it. Marriage has been taking its lumps lately. "Half of all marriages end inmates divorce", some say. OK- don't get married and you will never get divorced- - - - Simply stay with three different guys (if one is a girl) or three different gals (if one is a guy), and you won't have three "divorces", just three break-ups. ( We can juggle semantics as well as statistics. ). But, people will still divest themselves of each other (for good reasons, bad, or imagined), people will still go through the stages of grief, and people will still end up picking a similar partner the next time around (according to psych stats). ;- )
IMO- NO ONE is ever 100% absolutely ready to get married - - - - or to paint a fence - - - - - or to go on a world cruise - - - - - or to go sky diving - - - - - or to test that new exotic recipe- or do ANYthing! The best we can hope for is to learn how to paint that fence, prepare for that cruise (COVID notwithstanding) , pack our own parachute, and clear everyone and all breakable objects out of that kitchen!!! Hopefully for a marriage, the couple has been through enough experiences- of enough different kinds (happy ones, downers, money questions, sex attitudes, political compatibility, family issues, etc) that they can get through life without much fuss a majority of the time. And when a big "fuss" DOES come, I would hope that they have the common sense to know how to work it out rather than just throw up their arms and scream "I WANT A DIVORCE!" Towards that end, "no-fault divorce" should never have been put on the books: might be an incentive for people to think twice, either before marriage OR after!
On a bit of a lighter note, I had semi-joked with my wife that people shouldn't have marriage counseling (she's a counselor !) - they should just have to live through 12 months of having a kitchen remodeled, which was supposed to be a 4-5 week job. If they can survive that, they can survive darn near ANYthing! (we did)
I used to know a woman who said that never really know a person until you live with them. And she was right. Back when Lisa was alive, I found out more about her sharing a roof when we were engaged, than before we shared a roof. And it makes sense, too. I would have wanted to see how they live when sharing a roof with another.
Well you could have just been room mates as friends and with no sex. You usually know friends better than anyone. Sometimes even better than your mate.
I know the Catholic Church frowns at premarital cohabitation, but I say "phooey" to that! You need to experience life under the same roof to learn each other's tolerances with certain things. Letting a religion determine whether or not you are compatible, in my eyes is irrelevant! You can't go through 12 months of nonsense marital classes so they can say "you match" and at the same time not let them experience life together under a roof so they can get a taste of "Marriage in real life", beforehand. I'm sorry, but you need to experience together sharing the same space to learn limits.
Who said anything about including sex? I'm just talking about learning as a real life simulation, how it is to share a roof as a couple. I found out from my engagement that sharing a roof with a fiance was a FAR different experience from sharing one with a girl I knew right after Lisa died. She was having trouble at home, so I let her stay with me for a little bit until the embers cooled.
My point is no one knows anybody at first. That is what engagements and dating is for. These days people want to jump into bed on the first date and into living together by the 5th. What's the point. Just be up front and say I want someone to sleep with under the false assumption that we will get married. But if we don't jive I'll just move on to someone else. There is no incentive in that. It's no more than a one month's stand. You have sex until you finally come to the realization that they really don't want to marry you, they just wanted to get into your pants. If you are serious you will wait for sex after you get married though not many these days can do that. Then you wonder why there are so many divorces because the relationship/marriage was built on sex and not on the person behind the eyeballs.
Where on my profile to you see any relationship status of single, genius? YOU are why people should live together before marriage, about a month with you and I’d leave.
@rcljr You might want to learn to read posts TWICE before responding. I HAVE been saying about how couples should share a roof before tying the knot so they can learn each other's habits at home!!!
Yes, I think its a good idea cause you truly know them all their little annoying habbits... if you marry someone without truly knowing them might end in disaster... you dont immediately move in together wait a year progress to that step.
Now if I was in your position and I didn't feel comfortable living with my man before marriage id say well I think that will take away from the value of marriage.. where the two become one... it won't be as exciting if were already living together... I think hurdles like habits we can get over together as a couple. I choose not to live with my lovers to protect myself for my husband one day so that it can be the first time I am experiencing living with someone.
My boyfriend asked me to move in with him 20 years ago. I told him that it was too risky for me, so no. He hummed and hawed a bit, but I meant it. He proposed 3 months later and we got married. I moved in after we returned from our honeymoon and we're still married.
We noticed so many friends that complained about how their relationship changed once they were married. That could be a good point for you to make. Your relationship might be different after you get married, so why set up false pretenses?
@888theGreat We learn about things we did, things we do, things we think, things we used to think, and then there are all those lovely habits that maybe we didn't know about or even have but notice now, comfort levels change, and with 2 decades behind us we have learned how dedicated and resilient we ourselves are and eachother are. How can you disclose things you haven't yet learned about yourself? Surprises are guaranteed.
so you are saying you never truly know the other person even after 60 years of marriage? Or that people are constantly changing and become different people over the years?
@888theGreat I'm saying that people are constantly growing and who we are changes over the years. Some years are easier to live eachother and some take more effort. All take commitment.
Sounds like luck tbh. Coming from a man, you took a huge risk with that yes. What changed in those 3 months that got you from not wanting to share a home to a legal commitment.
So it sounds like you were trying to become his dependent, not that you saw it as risky. I don't know maybe you see it differently, and maybe I'm in the wrong. Did you at least stay at each other's places for short periods?
@Hypnos0929 That's an odd assumption. Not wanting to play house and waiting until marriage is somehow seen as a manipulative move to become a "dependent"? Are you also one of the men on this platform that refer to women as "damaged goods"?
To answer your last question; No, we did not stay at eachother's places.
Ah, I see you're 21. Maybe I'm just an old lady with old values. Your way of trial and error to find an ideal spouse is completely backwards to me. I have daughters about your age. They don't have any interest in playing house or be some guy's experiment or practice either.
I don't really see staying together as "practice" or "playing house" because I've literally taken care of myself all my life. Do I need to clean up more, absolutely, but I'd never expect my spouse to clean up after me. And no I don't see women as "damaged goods". Are some women bad apples? Sure. But I'm not exactly a catch either, and I've known too many victims of sexual assault to use such a careless, and rotten term. I just see moving in as another part of dating. If it's getting more serious you start with maybe a week at mine or hers then go from there. Like you said you don't want to play the maid, which is reasonable, which is why you should find out before marriage if the guy has habits you can't stand.
@On_cloud_wine In other words, why get married when you are getting the sex for free and it is in essence a no strings attached relationship? You have to wonder how many others have they slept with under the guise of wanting to see if you are compatible to them?
Everyone has it reasons and naturally you have all the right to stick with yours, but in my case if we didn't live together for almost two years I wouldn't have married her for the simple reason that it would have felt too much like an arranged marriage.
maybe? i think that it depends. some men just want a live-in maid and get far too comfortable, begin dragging their feet, and run from commitment and responsibility. you see many of them on here bitching about how marriage doesn't offer them any benefits. it's like, women wash their panties, make their food, cook and clean for them, be intimate with them, and what does pretty boy offer in return? a promise that they'll marry by the end of the year, which turns into 2 years, which soon becomes 10 years, and before you know it you have reached menopause, your uterus has developed cobwebs and still no marriage and no children, but your beau has kids with one of his three girlfriends (just not you).
IF i move in with a guy, it is because i love him very much, i don't see any major red flags, and i think he has the potential to become my husband. BUT, i would also give him an ultimatum. I am only going to live with you for 1 year max. if there is no ring on this finger by the end of that year and no serious talk of babies, bon voyage. i am not going to be some man's permanent live-in maid or mommy while i get nothing in return besides his you know what. if he can't give me commitment and a family after 2 years of dating, i move on to the next best thing.
also, to add on, i think i would first a guy propose to me, give me an expensive diamond ring, and then we live together. that way, i know that i will be paid for all my labour and won't just be washing his panties for free. and as someone here already said, why waste money on cohabitation when you can just have a couple of sleepovers and play house for maybe a month? i don't like the thought of wasting my money on living with a guy who still doesn't know what he wants out of life, and whether he wants to marry me. imagine if i had 4 long term relationships, and at the end of 1 year of living together, all 4 guys decided we weren't "right for each other." think of all the money wasted on rent. i'd rather live with my parents, save my money for a house and future babies and retirement savings and future vacations, then wasting it on some guy who wants a live-in maid and not a wife.
@IDontBelieveIt i mean, wouldn't you rather save that money that you earn to move into a house with a woman you marry rather than simply dating? what if the relationship you are in does not work? you wasted 6 months worth of rent when you could've put it into a retirement savings or used it for something else. and then you waste another 10 months worth of rent in money on your next relationship, which may or may not work out.
If you are living with a guy in 2 years and no marriage neither of you were into it. You are just friends with benefits. If you waste 3 years with 3 guys, plus counting time between relationships, you will be 10 years older and with being an old maid creeping up. You should know after a year if anything is going to be a go. But realistically you will know the same thing by just dating and not shacking up.
A man knows when is ready to marry a woman. Point blank. If he stalls, if he is not sure, if he pulls back, gives excuses, he is not priorizing a wife. He might like the idea eventually, and take it slow.
This is not going to be popular, but take love and romance out of idea of getting married. It will turn into that, and romance is important to a relationship, but the key part is, the man knows. It doesn't take a man but few weeks to know if she is going to be the wife he wants.
Your largest problem is that women are being told to date long and provide good sex. A man doesn't need to prioritize a wife if he is getting the wife treatment before marriage. And so many women give up what they want most because they been told it's smarter to wait. And they will wait themselves to an age they are no longer really sought after.
If you really want to get married. Find the guy that stares at you like the most valuable thirty look that is almost creepy. If you see that, and you like him, be very very clear with little smiles and double take. Do not approach. Make it easy to approach. And help the guy but don't make it obvious. Get offline and make what you want important.
after what I have seen in relationships, there is no particular way you will not be cohabitating before marriage anyway. At some point during the relationship, you're going to have extra clothes at your future spouses apartment , did you at least spent more than a week, or even a month living in the same house. And I have yet to see a relationship who has been able to stay separate and live completely in different houses, not go into divorce within six months after marriage simply because they discovered a nasty, living habit between them. 1 habit that was the deal breaker they hadn't seen in the entire time they were dating. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I wish there was a way relationships would stand the test of time and people can work through difficulties that would allow them to stay separated until marriage. But that is not what our society is developed into. No one wants to stay with someone if they can't have the 99.5% person they have been dreaming about since they discovered they had no way else to make a living Being single
I have also seen the people quote those statistics and they can't be used to guide a recommendation since you only see % and not how big fraction that belong to each path. Because if everyone married before living together you would have a even worse divorce rate then either of todays statistics. Because people who tries it and never marry and go separate ways would be divorced or unhappy. The people actually marries without cohabition is a small subset that first of all believes in marriage, and are religious. So their mindset about marriage is different. If you would mix in all backgrounds you will get a mess which would look bad in statistics. Personally I am in the camp that would never ever marry without cohabitation. In fact I don't want to marry at all. Why? It's not so I can trade up whenever I want like they claim. It's so a can discard her if she becomes a complete bitch and not the woman I feel in love with. Because I would be to invested in the current relationship to want to swap it out for a new unknown one with a prettier face. Unless it already gone down the drain. She should have no problem keeping me around, if she is of the same mindset.
You need to firmly flesh out why you have the beliefs you do so that you can have stronger backing than a comeback for this or that. Something intrinsic to your views of love, life, and so on.
From what I can tell your basis for not living together is you don't want to share your life with them until you KNOW you want to share your life with them. But if someone has proposed and you said yes, then you're kind of at that point already.
Now if you're saying what's happening is you're in a relationship. No proposal has been made. And now the guy is trying to move in together. That's something else.
If the end goal is marriage. And you don't want to move in before then. You reeeeally have to understand the cons, the likelihood of those cons, and be bought in.
Because to get someone to buy in to a belief you have to strongly be bought in it yourself first. Understand the full reasoning behind it outside of what you've heard/read.
Personally I agree with you. But I also am not trying to get married.
I will add it's a little weird you have guys trying to move in with you so consistently. Like do these guy propose to you beforehand?
I get where you're coming from. You'd probably be more open to moving in if they got down on one knee to propose first, ring and all. But before that it would feel like they're asking for a big commitment before you even know you want the bigger commitment of marriage with them
Short answer: Its honestly both rude and backwards as it is a normal step in relationship progression. I do believe its not ideal and agree with you BUT only for religious people who are virgins or mostly on that level. Outside of that to me its ridiculous and off putting.
Think of it this way, a man insists on a highly religious wedding. You must have a certain priest and it will be a very biblical sermon yet he is an atheist. He just says its better this way and thats what he requires. He just wants to know deep in you heart if you are religious you will make it a religious experience and if you won't read from the bible and proclaim your obedience to God he won't marry you. But remember he is an atheist. doesn't that sure seem like a weird offputting sort of requirement? Thats how you're coming off to men basically.
Or in a similar way, he says "its the first date, if you dont put out lose my number" men view our commitment ie marriage like women view sex. So that kind of eww that situation might make you feel is the same eww factor men feel when you tell them this.
Statistically its mainly very religious waiting till marriage types who do this. Did your statistics compensate for that? My gut experience says both of those things are far more important to marital success than cohabitation from a male perspective the only risk is the man will never propose. But thats not a risk to me. So when talking to a male the stats you cite are mostly irrelevant and will not change a mans mind.
Can you put that in layman's terms? I have a hard time following what you are saying. But one thing I did notice is that a true Christian would not marry an atheist as the Bible says do not be unevenly yoked with an unbeliever. If someone was playing Christian in order to get a girl to marry him then he is a detestable creature, fit only to wallow in the mud with the swine.
"since I am not religious" as you said... why ask men to fulfill a religious requirement if you aren't religious? Are you seeking to marry a very religious man when you yourself are not?
Ok? And nothing i said changes. To make it simple: someone... anyone... (not you) who is not religious and yet expects their relationship to follow extremely significant religious expectations is completely totally fucked up in the head. Men would not be excited to marry a woman fucked up in the head.
So far I've gathered its a "story" so completely fabricated made up. And the questions asked you dont care about or expect an answer. So what is the purpose of the post?
How does directly responding to your made up story have no bearing? The story is unrealistic. Nobody is stupid enough to not be religious yes expect a man to follow strict religious rules. Ask stupid questions get stupid answers.
Seeing as you see yourself as a James Bond type your major mission in life seems to be to bed women, and also under the false pretense of marrying them if they are to your liking. I doubt any of them will be unless they are sluts in the sheets. But if that's what you want more power to you. We're done here.
@bamesjond0069 But not all women want to live with a guy before marriage. Those guys that do are horn dogs who are more into looking for a fuck buddy than a wife. If you catch feelings during the process, ok. But if you don't, you know, she was a good lay but she got boring so you move on to someone else. These are all part of the games people play. https://youtu.be/rYVkKtBNsNs
You seem like a logical, well meaning, woman who knows what she wants and stands by her principles which is super important in the climate of today's society. Although I'm religious, I dont agree that you need that as an excuse for them to understand or respect your wishes whether its religious or not.
I see that your confident in your decision and you should stick by it.
The right one will come along where you dont have to compromise on something so important and life changing.
I dont have a retort for the gentlemen because I think them not understanding or wanting to understand is absurd.
Maybe they are the ones with something to hide, maybe they just want someone to split the Bill's with, someone to control or have around to clean up after them...
I dont advice men to go into a live-in arrangement because in some countries, you can be declared common law man and wife after a certain time of cohabitation. I dont advice women to do the same either because if the relationship doesn't work out, it's going to negatively affect the next man who's going to be considering a serious relationship.
Something most people don't consider. So after 7 years they are common law and without that piece of paper and rig=ng they will get mostly nothing when he dies and his heirs will get it all.
"Can you please give me a polite comeback to the "I won't marry you unless you live with me first" statement that will succeed in showing that I am not unreasonable, nor that I have something to hide, so that I stop losing potential mates? "
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. You do not need to justify your boundaries/requirements. If somebody has such a problem with them then you aren't compatible. Also avoid broke guys who don't really have their own place or who can barely afford the place that they have. They'd be more likely to claim that they need to share a place with you. Guys who are successful and not feeling desperate to be with a woman -- I'd think -- would be delighted if they get to keep all of their space to themselves.
You have a criteria you want these men to meet. They are not willing to meet your criteria. So just tell them goodbye. They want wifey behavior without putting a ring on it. That's not right so tell him be gone.
You know guys, they would love to live with a girl. Basically a friends with benefits deal. If it doesn't work out he got free nookie for a few years. Time to move on to fresh pie.
Men and women view marriage differently. Women view marriage as an expression of love, natural progression of relationship. Men view the financial implications of marriage, alimony, she takes half of my stuff, etc. Unless you are a virgin at age 33, I view living together as a reasonable request as part of the courtship of marriage. However, since you want to get married, it has to be living together with a purpose - communicate expectations and deadlines, such as engagement within 6 months of living together and marriage within 18 months. Hint: Selection of men is important - if a man is 35+ and has never been married; he's not going to get married. This could be your starting list of expectations in living together: Great Relationships Are Not An Accident
My parents never lived together before marriage and they are approaching 44 years married, so it's not necessary.
Now, you don't HAVE to give a polite way - you just be up front and tell people this is what you believe, it's your way of doing things, and if they don't like it, that's their issue.
That’s no good that’s like being married without being married if you can’t know each other on dates and long hangouts and taking trips together and hanging out at the house for hours at a time then I don’t know what to tell you. If your boyfriend ever goes to the hospital and needs surgery you need some type of consent to sign and they won’t let the girlfriend do that and what if the parents are out of the country then what do you do? As a wife you can sign anything.
I don't think it's rude, but if a friend was dating you, realistically I'd be telling them to be very, very careful about moving forward. Things change when people live together in ways dating but living apart just doesn't compare to.
I also don't think your statistics are causative. That is... I think traditional religious people don't live together before marriage as often, and don't divorce as often, whether or not they're happy in the marriage.
If the intentions are pure to get married then sure I guess. But living with someone isn’t going to be easy. We have disagreements with our parents, siblings, friends, and etc. So of course when it’s our spouse it will be the same case as well. But people who date each other and see each other don’t necessarily have to live with each other. If they do live with each other, then rent for 1 year. Don’t invest in property and then leave that person after 2 years because that could be a messy financial situation when it comes to selling that property and who gets the bigger chunk of the value of that property (if money was made).
For me I think living with them first is a good idea. You get to know all their idiosyncrasies. I've seen many relationships where they've lived together first and they are still happily married uears later. It all depends on the couple and their beliefs and morals
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I think you’ll never truly know someone regardless because you still learn something new about the person no matter how many years you’ve been married.
Living together before marriage, sharing a bed, sharing bills, finances, waking up next to each other, etc before marriage honestly takes the point out of marriage because you’re already living like a married couple. What is the point of putting a ring on it, at that point, if you’re already reaping all the benefits beforehand?
Not sure why some men don’t see it that way, but high value women don’t waste their time if they want a man to be committed and ready to marry them.
I’ve had friends who’ve dated guy who really just wanted to move in together so they could save money on rent. They never intended to actually marry them. None of those relationships lasted.
Guys date down for sex but they don't marry down. However, those are the guys you are dating because you want the hottest guys that will fuck you; not the best, but less attractive, that will marry you. If and when, you decide to settle for guys within your league, you will not have that problem because will marry you without first living together. Many would marry you even if you withhold sex until you get married or else an expensive engagement ring.
Regardless, studies show divorce rates are higher for those who have lived together before marriage?
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