I am Fed up with Being Blamed for the Violence of Others Because of a Shared Religion

[Anonymous]

You probably know which religion I am talking about. I am talking about islam and muslims being called terrorists. I have never been called with that disgusting name before and would never imagine that a muslim will call me or suspect me of it. I got used to hearing that from others on the internet. Most people call muslims as terrorists because they don't know that it is not about religion. It doesn't matter how much you tell them, they won't understand.

They will just judge you for a bunch of terrorist who claim that they are muslim. Even they are muslim and terrorists, is it enough to blame all muslims? No. You can't blame anybody without knowing them.

I was suspected by a muslim woman

If someone who is not muslim blames me I may understand that. They do that because of the media or something else. Even it is not right to do, I will understand it. But it hurts a lot when someone from my own religion do that. It hurts really a lot.

One day, I went to the post office to send some documents for master degree. Since I have just got out from stationary, I started to order them in a file. There were only a few people in the post office. And a few min. later it was only me and the woman working there. She told me to take mine and I told her that I must order my file, I will give it a few min. later. Then she said that she is worried. It was one of those times that there was a terrorist incident in Turkey. But did I look suspicious? I was just arranging my file. And why on earth a suicide bomber come to a post office? They choose crowded places for that.

I asked her why she is worried and she told me that she doesn't know what I am doing for hours! For hours? It was only a few min. or more. And she was clearly seeing that I was busy with my file. I felt terrible. I finished it half-way and gave her. I even said sorry for making her worried. I don't know why I did such a thing. She was the one who should have said that. After me saying sorry she said that she thought I am a terrorist because of the recent incident blah blah blah. I said sorry and left there. As soon as I left there I burst into tears. I cried for hours. I was blamed for something that I was opposed to. And the one who did that was a woman, a muslim woman. She was wearing a hijab. And I was also...

Women terrorists wear hijab and lose clothes to hide the bomb on their body. She probably suspected me because of that. But she was also wearing a hijab. I wonder how she would feel if someone do the same to her.

I couldn't forget what she said for days. I cried every day thinking about it. Please don't blame us with that name. Please don't!

[jp612612]

You know, I manage a customer service team that's spread across India and the Philippines of which about 30% of them are Muslim. These guys are nice guys, they definitely aren't terrorists, and they even often talk about how those who perform terrorist acts are not "real Muslims". These guys are the "moderate" Muslims that everyone talks about.

But here's the thing... As nice as they are, they're incredibly intolerant. They make fun other religions (like the Hindus) but will get REALLY pissed if anyone makes fun of Islam. They talk about how other languages are just so "ugly" sounding (especially Chinese!) but talk about how whenever anyone speaks Arabic, it sounds like music! I could go on and on, but there seems to be a certain level of intolerance within the Muslim community that does not show itself within the Hindu Indians or the Catholic Filipinos.

I talk to these guys on a daily basis (for the past 11+ years) and I really like them (I even flew one out for my wedding back in 2010), but another issue is that they seem to make a big deal about being "scared". Like a few years ago, Google caved to China and allowed certain searches to be blocked because China threatened to block Google services entirely. They chided Google for being "scared". Similarly, when the Afghan and Iraq conflicts were at their height, they would say that the US was "scared" whenever they heard news of peace talks or ceasefires. They don't seem to appreciate the concept that compromise might be in the best interest of all parties whether it's business or violent conflict.

[dudegreat]

This is exactly what I feel to. Muslims are too close minded and rigid so they can never truly accept other communities or values of other countries.

[Anonymous]

I am so sorry you get blamed for things you didn't do. It's not right and it should never happen. But I am more sorry for the friends and family of my neighbor who was killed in the recent attack on Westminster Bridge in London. He was a good man, and just as innocent as you are, and he is dead because of a terrorist attack and his wife lost her husband and was seriously injured herself. Let's not forget who is REALLY at fault here, OK?

[myTake Owner]

Rest in peace :(

[nalaa]

You know I'm fed up with muslims in general thinking they're not part of the problem.
I said it the other day in a different thread but moderate muslims ARE part of the problem. You it's not a problem you asked for but you have it now and a lot of muslims seem to think if they just ignore it hard enough, it will go away. But it won't

Islam needs reformation because islam has problems. But muslims have trouble admitting that ANYTHING is wrong with islam at all in practice or in theory. And that's a problem also

Let's not even talk moderate muslims in saudi arabia, let's talk about muslims in the west or moderate countries such as north africa

qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03bc03adbb85b52a1d41c77ea9061d29
www.commdiginews.com/.../assimilated-800.jpg

Those are not small numbers. In some cases it's not even minority. You can't ignore that away

[Kirah]

Well said. Every time this issue comes up, Muslims always say "oh yeah, but those aren't reaaal muslims!".

[nalaa]

@Kirah I agree I think that specific comment is incredibly annoying too.
It's like the first thing they say after a terrorist attack instead of something more along the lines of "I'm sorry for what was done in the name of my religion"

Religions are proud, that's a problem. I'm from germany and the Catholic church lost a lot of support in the aftermath of ww2 for their inability to say sorry (to this day) or even admit any wrong doing on their side.
And the big wrong doing they're being accused of here, is not having done enough. Not having used their considerable influence to stop or prevent the holocaust

[lanamyqueen]

i guess every religion has it's flaws

[nalaa]

@lanamyqueen it does, but the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. And Christians and Jews have done that widely, but Muslims just don't. They're in denial

[powerwoman]

Islamophobia is inexcusable, and irrational. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. As a Jew, I empathize. This sort of hatred is nothing new, but we can overcome it if we all stick together! Stay safe, dear!

[WalterRadio]

How many times have Moslems came close to killing you?

It is not irrational to note that 100% of foreign terrorist attacks over the past few decades were committed by Moslems, and are also a disproportionately high percent of domestic terrorist attacks.

The problem is not with people who are afraid of being killed by a terrorist. The problem is that Moslems allow terrorists to prosper among them.

[powerwoman]

@WalterRadio The muslim community is threatened by violent radicals, same as anyone else. Of course they should do what they can to prevent violence-- we all should. But it isn't fair--or realistic-- to expect them solve this themselves. They're a diverse group of individuals, not a hive mind.

[springocelot]

I used to live with muslims from Middle East and South Asia for a few years, in an area with a lot of muslims. My grandpa was also a muslim, from a 90% muslim region. They were very nice, very charming people. Your typical "moderate" muslim.

But living with people, you see things others don't see. So while they were very nice, they were also, hmmm... very supremacist. They constantly bashed black people. They called Hindus their "slaves." One of them would sublet her room, giving the muslims a discount while steeply overcharging every non-muslim. The muslims knew this and apparently didn't have a problem. Believe me, I was pissed when I found that out.

In the same vein, In a great display of group think, there were many times where I saw these moderates let their more religious muslims dictate their decision making. For example, one of the muslims I knew wanted a roommate. For him, anyone would do. But his Yemeni friend insisted that he only get a muslim in order to prevent kufr. Guess what? He did.

I could go on. But not knowing islam at the time, I thought it was just them. But after studying the islamic ideology, it makes sense. One of the core principles of islam is that it must dominate every aspect of life, at all times. That muslims are the "best of peoples" and non-muslims are the "worst of creatures." That muslims are to be compassionate to each other, while ruthless to the nonbelievers (48:29). That your prophet saw the saw the land, east and west, being taken over by his ummah.

For me, this is a big reason why so many muslims do not understand the principle of reciprocity. They have no problem mocking other religions, but get belligerent if you mock theirs. They have no problem visiting cities that ban all 5+ billion non-muslims from entering, but go into an uproar if someone even suggested doing the same to them... and on and on.

The world is not a one-way street. That's not how it works. For every action there is a reaction. Because no one likes feeling backed into a corner. People like options. What happened to you is not fair. But so long as islam insists that's how the world works, people will keep talking, and may fight back with a force greater than what you believers expect.

[dudegreat]

Agree to each and every word. You have to live among Muslims to see the real face of them. I live in a country with 150 million Muslims and they do have a certain resentment and disgust towards Hindus. Even though they have no problems in taking the resources of Hindus for their own purposes.

[springocelot]

@dudegreat - yes. i believe one must have up close personal experience coupled with education on their ideology to really appreciate the issue. but i'm afraid for most, it will be too late by then.

It brings a point. It's naïve thinking it's just terrorism. As many here have hinted, there is an underlying supremacist attitude problem within islamic communities that helps bring about all sorts of inequalities/mess in the first place. Are all of them complicit? No. But to keep denying its existence as a problem from within shows a complete lack for self-introspection on their part that's not doing them, or anyone any favors.

[dudegreat]

Yes, they fail to understand the underlying cause of terrorism, and how these religious "moderate" muslims are very much part of the problem. Their mentality is such that reforms become impossible. They are not willing to question things and those who do are threntened and even killed in many instances.

[WalterRadio]

I am not a religious person. I have Moslem friends and have had Moslem girlfriends (in theory only, as they did not adhere to Islam, certainly not in saving sex for marriage). I've read the Bible and the Koran. One of my ancestors stopped the Islamic invasion of Europe, starting the push to expel them.

Here is a fact: 100% of foreign terrorist attacks in the US (and in most other countries as well) over the past 30 years were committed by Moslems.

Why is that?

And why do you wish to belong to a group that has some members who go around killing innocent people for the sole purpose of killing them? Whether you like it or not, that is what some Moslems do. It is your choice whether you wish to be associated with them or not. (well, that depends on where you live, because in several countries, if you choose not to be a Moslem anymore, then they will execute you).

According to history, Islam initially spread through the sword outside of Arabia. People converted or they were killed. Christianity initially spread through the Empire only through persuasion. They started as such pacifists, that early Christians died rather than fight. When Islam invaded Christian lands and forced Christians, pagans, and Jews to convert to Islam upon threat of death, the Christians they were going up against eventually adopted some of the Islamic ways and for many centuries also used threat of death to force conversions. Eventually, the Christians stopped doing that, but Moslems never did. Islam has always been intolerant of other beliefs and are willing to kill people over it. Today there are Moslems executing people for not being Moslem. That is what you are part of.

A Moslem failed in a terrorist attack against me one time, or I would be dead. A group of Moslems set off a bomb in a building I was in one time. If I had been closer to the blast, I would be dead. A group of Moslems ambushed a road one time. If my timing had been different, I would be dead. Look at these odds. In 98% of my life or better, I am not within 100 meters of a Moslem. But in that 2% of my life, three times I came close to being murdered by them.

I am blaming you. I am blaming you for allowing other Moslems to think terrorism is ok. As long as you are a Moslem, then you are choosing to be associated with terrorists. That is your choice.

Now, what are you going to do about it?

[Pepperjack]

Islam is a cancer, I will not sit back and ignore the fact that Islam is a big issue because you dont like your religon being taegeted for its actions. The koran orders muslims to kill people like myself and people in my family for either being an athiest or gay. Fix your relgion and the people within it. On the day of the orlando attack, all i could see on social media from muslims around the world were people celebrating the death of my people. And you expect us all to just shrug this off?

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
www.pewresearch.org/.../muslim-americans.pdf

ICM (2016): 2 in 3 Muslims in Britain would not report terror plot to police.
www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4730825.ece

CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad"
www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/.../...ll-Data.pdf

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
www.cbsnews.com/.../...93879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
https://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U. S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
www.terrorismanalysts.com/.../html

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

You really should learn to read statistics. The Pew study you cited states that 26% of Muslims in America younger than 30 believe suicide bombings *can be justified in any way* as opposed to those who think it can never be justified. Only 2% of those surveyed think it's often justifiable. This number is lower than a lot of surveys of Christians and Jews in America:

www.theatlantic.com/.../

[Pepperjack]

@HungLikeAHorsefly 1. That is the least likely poll i care to add as it is litterally a decade old 2. besides the snarky comment, i know how to read "statistics" and it says 18-29 always 26%, sometimes/often 15% rarely 11% and never 69%. Only 2% surveryed say its often justifable? Thats just wrong, maybe you should "learn to read statistics" bud

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Sorry, I meant to say "learn to read English".

Page 53: "Among Muslims younger than 30, for example, 15% say that suicide bombing can often or sometimes be justified (2% often, 13% sometimes), while about two-thirds 69%) say that such tactics are never justified."

[Pepperjack]

didn't mean to add always meant net

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Also, the Pew study you cited is a decade old.

[Pepperjack]

@HungLikeAHorsefly i know... thats why i said its the one i care the least about

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Oh! Okay, my bad.

[Pepperjack]

@HungLikeAHorsefly what about the others? And even then my comment wasn't really supposed to be a debate about stats it was intended to show the concern amoungst the muslim community in the wordl and the west.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

In order for these numbers to be anything other than sensationalist, you'd have to compare them to similar surveys of other major religions in the west, such as Christianity and Judaism. As I mentioned, there is a tendency among religious people in the west to think violence against civilians is justified in some circumstances, regardless of their particular flavor of religion.

But, perhaps I'm biased. My take is "oh look, the Thumpers are arguing about which of their fairy tales is best. Again."

[jacquesvol]

@HungLikeAHorsefly I'd like to know how many self proclaimed Christians think western violence was jjustified against Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia , Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Serbia, Libya, Granada, Panama, Syria.

[Pepperjack]

@jacquesvol Well to be justified kinda of. Many of these nations had either supported terroristic activity and/or attacked American allies. Some like Vietnam were using cruel tactics to fight the war which is why many Americans in general were against it. We are speaking of unwarrented attacks taken out in the name of god by religous groups.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

@jacquesvol To be fair, you're talking about state actors, and we're talking about individuals. But, many Americans (most, even) don't support that kind of thing. Some people do, and they use various ways to justify it, but the simple answer to your question is: they aren't really Christians.

[jacquesvol]

@Pepperjack It's easy to avoid condemning state terror justified by propaganda: patriotism supposes your country is always right.

[jacquesvol]

@HungLikeAHorsefly "they aren't really Christians is i.ytimg.com/vi/XtLK_ymzm5Q/maxresdefault.jpg

[Pepperjack]

@jacquesvol I have a love for my nation not my nation's government. I even added how there are wars that the US government were cruel in certain regards like i said with Vietnam. But to say any of those wars listed before can never be justified in any way is just foolish to say

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

@jacquesvol On the surface, yes this is a No True Scotsman fallacy. However, NTS is a fallacy because the determination as to who is a Scotsman and who isn't is arbitrary. Fortunately, we have a set of rules that determine who is and who is not a true Christian, in the form of the Bible.

So, to clarify: Christians who support state sponsored terror do not adhere to the teachings of the Bible and since a Christian is *by definition* someone who adheres to the teachings of the Bible, they cannot be said to be true Christians. That, my friend, is not an NTS fallacy.

[jacquesvol]

@HungLikeAHorsefly "Fortunately, we have a set of rules that determine who is and who is not a true Christian, in the form of the Bible."
Well, look back at how all those Christians behaved during he last 20 centuries. Their behavior determines the real notion of 'Christian'. What Christians REALLY did, not what they were and are supposed to do.

[jacquesvol]

cdn.theatlantic.com/.../...%20kill%20civilians.jpg

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

@jacquesvol Then our definition of what a Christian is can be boiled down to simply: you're a Christian if you say you're a Christian. We then come full circle to "you're a Muslim if you say you're a Muslim". Even if you favor killing innocent civilians.

[jacquesvol]

@HungLikeAHorsefly I'm not a believer in any religion, thus I observe believers from the outside and I define them by what they show me. I have read their books and the founders of religions complained already about the hypocrites. quod.lib.umich.edu/.../koran-idx

[Anonymous]

I will be honest with you iam not a muslim but i do live and talk and even befrieded lots muslims , i live in israel and while i try my best to respect everyone sometimes that hard to do, muslims have good and bad just like every other nation/religion, however and this is where it gets tricky, the laws and rules that your religion commands you to follow are far from nice or cute, your prophet mohhamed married little kids, had 9 wives, was a military leader and done lots and lots of other things, and before you get mad this is admitted by muslims themselves, its not a secret i've asked and even if i dont they admit it themselves without being asked, on tv, in the news and everywhre.

the same prophet you believe in and want to be like has done horrifying things and muslims willingly follow his teachings, this is far from jesus christ or christianity, islam and christianity are worlds apart unlike what some people say.

back to my discussion... even the best muslims seem to be too attached to islam and when in a group they dont seem to mind destroying the community they live in for the benefit of their religion, they come first regardless of what damage could it do to anyone else, despite studying and becoming more educated they still have plenty of backwards traditions that they are not ready to leave it , they may not all support violence or terrorism but they do support the cause lots of extremists want accomplish.

As long as you call yourself muslim and follow islam there is no way around it you will be blamed because your religion commands you to do things that normal sane people find terrfying and super backwards such as killing gays, attacking the enemies of islam, looking for non muslims and asking them to convert in peaceful ways and if they refuse then force them by the sword.

islam is not a religion its an ideology, a type of government, that people simply do not want or need.

its a shame really, the arabic culture is so rich but it has to suffer because of some fucktards, however there is no way around it, as long as there is islam and followers of islam who follow their religion perfectly peace can never be achieved even with peace loving muslims who hate the idea of war or killing or extremists.

[dudegreat]

This exactly!!

[Opinion Owner]

@dudegreat I dont live in the west but i live in pretty simliar society which is half western and half eastern, people who live here can easily see and understand whats going on in the world today, the west is losing and it will keep losing simply because they are protecting an ideology that simply put does not want peace, the goal behind islam is not peace its submission, control and the likes , muslims who drink, eat pork, have sex outside of marriage and befriend non muslims aren't true muslims they just were born muslims and know nothing about islam, but even then they still want to feel the warmth of belonging to a community so they are happy being muslims.
many times i've read fb posts or comments in arabic, coming from muslims calling other muslims fake or bad for saying happy holiday to no muslims or for befriending non muslims.

As an arab myself i find it to be a real sham, arabs have a great culture and history but its ruined some people.

[dudegreat]

Even I don't live in the west. I live in a country with 150 million Muslims so I know them pretty well and what are their goals. Too many Muslims in any country is a bad news.

[Opinion Owner]

@dudegreat sadly yes they are in to destroy and take not to live in peace even in their own countries some got tired and are defecting and leaving islam, its a shame really theyre the one ruining their future and shaming their past, they are too attached to a religion that is not that peaceful and self destructive and they are cool with it.

[Nadzzz]

I think people will never realize the difference between Muslim and terrorist
The thing is that the majority of people on this site that claim to have a lot of knowledge know shit about Muslims
I live in a Muslim majority country and I belong to the small percentage of strong christian beliefs
I'm in a school where 80% is Muslims and no... not Muslims with hijab
Majority of my friends are Muslims, teachers are Muslims. Just like I've known horrible people and even was in front of an Isis member praying I'd be alive the moment he left, I've also known the most fabulous people you could ever meet.
It is people's fundamental right to believe in *whatever* they want without being judged or imposed, it's in the law of the Convention on Human Rights.

Should WE all fight terrorism? Yes we MUST!
That doesn't include Muslims

Like I said I'm christian from my roots
I say it proudly that I'm not a racists and I don't judge people by any religion, ethnicity or sexuality. I even gave hugs on EIDs day and got the same thing on Easter day
So, seriously... don't care what people say because we can't change the world
The most important thing is that you should be proud of yourself and love yourself for who you ARE. Work on being an educated ad open minded human being that's the basis in my book and I think majority of people appreciate the being other than beliefs (except the extremist ones)

[helloitsmethere]

Preach!

[ObscuredBeyond]

Far more dangerous than you or ISIS, are the one world government zealots that believe nations should not have sovereign rights to screen their borders to block international criminals of any stripe from entering, and who insist that pirates can be "refugees" but that actual refugees must prove they are not white or Christian in order to "count."

Globalist zealots, in this way, are ISIS enablers. They are the Sarumans of the modern world. Their preference is anarcho-tyranny, and they defame all who oppose their measures as "backwards" and "supremacist."

These who think that way, the Merkels and Obamas and Ken Livingstones, et al, are the most dangerous creatures in existence. They incite evil, and bring out the worst in everyone. They are instigators of rape and bloodshed. They defraud the innocent and rob them, to give to and enable the world's child molesters and sadists. They arm the cutthroats of the Middle East against the whole world, and demand the West''s youth be fed to the criminal scum of the Islamic world.

They further bring disgrace to that world by ensuring only its criminal degenerates are allowed a voice on the world stage. They hogtie Scandinavians, and force them to watch the degenerates burn entire villages down. And gag them lest they mourn or complain. A world without Globalists is a better world.

[Walrus_au]

While I share in the general feeling of sadness at innocent people being held accused of extremism.
I'm going to speak the unpopular here and point out that you (not individually, but as a collective group), that is to say ALL 'moderate' religious folk, share some culpability in the actions of the extremists of your particular religions.

And before you grab your torches and pitchforks, I ask that you hear me out.

Each and every religion carries with it a wagonload of bad and dangerous ideas. While many folks don't hold with those ideas, they insist, and push the insistance that everyone needs to give their religion a pass and that it not be questioned - that those bad ideas are 'not real ###ians or whatever religion.

I have bad news for you - the extremists thrive on the kind of false respect moderates maintain for the whole idea.

So while I entirely agree that just because you believe a certain category of things does not mean you are guilty of the heinous crimes perpetrated. Please remember that every time you demand that everyone respect and not question your religion, you provide cover and support for those who ARE guilty of those crimes.

And for those people (and I use this term loosely) who equate the ideas of religion and the people in the religion. You are at least as culpable here. By creating that false equivalence and generating hate for groups of people, you are fueling extremists claims. So kindly quit it.

[Anonymous]

Because your religion is disgusting, I'm very sorry if I offended you, but I'm just speaking out the truth. The fact that in the Quran, it is written that homosexuality is a sin, that islam is the only true religion, that women should cover themselves, that if you don't believe in god and that you're not a muslim you'll go to hell, is what's so disgusting. Ever wonder why 99% of the most dangerous terrorist groups in the world are all jihad groups? Because your religion isn't as "peaceful" as you think it is, actually, it's not even peaceful at all, "Islam is the religion of peace" hahah utter bullshit, more like: islam is the religion of violence. Your "God" teaches you to hate people that are different, your God teaches you to be radical and that is why the majority of the terrorists are muslim, because your religion is radical and it teaches the believers of Allah to kill the ones who are different. You wanna know which religion is the actual religion of peace? It's hinduism, I'm not even Hindu, I'm an atheist so listen carefully. In hinduism: homosexuality isn't a sin, even the Gods were homosexuals, in hinduism: it says that all religions are great and it doesn't brag about being the real religion, in hinduism: you're not obligated to believe in God, as long as you're a good person, you'll go to heaven, in hinduism: men and women are equal, in hinduism: you're allowed to believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. In hinduism, it's not a problem if you don't pray. In hinduism, you can disagree with God's sayings. See how the real religion of peace is: it's not radical, it's free, just like democracy, it lets you believe in whatever YOU want to believe and it doesn't force you to agree with everything God says, you're still going to heaven even if you don't believe in God, you just have to be a good person. So fuck Islam.

[dudegreat]

Agreed, I think Muslims and Victorian era British have ruined a lot of Hindu values in India. People feel don't even know the real teachings of Hinduism and think Muslims are their brothers and similar to them, which is far from the truth. Being under the rule of Islam and then under the British for 100s of years has made Hindus insecure and ignorant.

[dudegreat]

@hantec65 Another proponent of religion of peace...

[jacquesvol]

Tell us about the Hindu caste system, about persecutions by Hindus, please.

[superdouch]

Well I understand how offensive it can be. But SOME muslims ARE terrorists.

Some. And some look the part.

And like you said, women who participate in that extreme violence can use the hijab and large loose clothes to hide suicide vests, some men to hide weapons.

If you walk around paris right now, wearing a closed bulky trenchcoat, and you mind your own business, I'm going to bet you'll attract police attention. Maybe you won't get talked to but you bet they'll be looking at you intentely. Why? Because what if you're actually hiding and AK under there? Do they wait till you're emptying your magazine on a crowd of civilians to stop you cause they didn't wanna hurt your feelings by checking the wrong person? No.
Nobody knows you and how good of a person you are until they know you. Until then it's all about how you look. And if you look a certain way you'll attract a certain number of stereotypes and some attention.

It's like once I wore a hoodie and sweatpants to the supermarket cause I was off and my clothes were in the washer. And security at the supermarket checks me. It's offensive. I'd never steal!! Wtf!
But I dressed exactly the same way as people who do and cause trouble. And the job of security is to make sure nothing gets stolen. So if you look the part in any way, it doesn't matter they're going to check. Just in case. Cause it's their job.

Its never personal. And honestly to me it wouldn't be about you being muslim or a certain colour, it would be more about if there's a possibility you're hiding a weapon or a vest or something. You can be blonde and blue eyes clean shaven but if you're wearing a long trench coat, or carrying a heavy bag, or you look bulky. As a security guy I would be wondering what's under there or whats in your bag. Simple.

[Anpu23]

1.7 Billion people on the planet, that's 23% of the worlds population identify as following Islam. To paint every Muslim in the world as a terrorist is a pretty big broad stroke, unfortunately people are scared, and scared people make irrational decisions.

There's a quote that I love: Ye have locked yerselves up in cages of fear--and, behold, do ye now complain that ye lack FREEDOM! (Principle Discordia) that sums up the situation in the west almost to a "T."

Of course people are ignorant, don't let their ignorance ruin your day.

[AleDeEurope]

I hate Islam (the religion, not the people), but I can understand why you feel hurt about this. I acknowledge not every Muslim is a terrorist. What I don't understand is if so many Muslims aren't terrorists and they are fed up of being mistaken by one, why don't they march against terrorism and ISIS? They've marched for Palestine in the West, they march for "women", they march against political parties they dislike, why can't they march to show that Islam is about peace and that they're peaceful people? Hell, I've even seen marches for Sharia Law and the death of the West lol

I feel like if you're all so fed up of your religion being misunderstood, you'd march for it, but not, all Muslims do is go on Twitter after there's been an attack to type the #NotAllMuslims. Like come on, do something! Like the saying goes: silence is consent.

[karahiri]

Right. Because marching against psychos like ISIS totally won't get us murdered.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri It won't in the West.

[karahiri]

Lol. Sure.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri Why would it get you killed in the West? Please, explain.

[karahiri]

Seriously? People get killed for less. ISIS knows no bounds. Why would you ever think speaking out like that wouldn't have repercussions? That's massively naive.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri So you think if people in the West marched against ISIS that they would get more aggressive that they already are? It's not like they don't wanna kill all of us already... thinking marching against them would make it worse is kind of ridiculous...

[karahiri]

And how do you propose it would make things better? What exactly would marching achieve? Other than identifying yourself as a Muslim for all the people filled with hatred.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri It will show the people that you're against ISIS, and actually doing something that proves that there's a difference between ISIS and other Muslims, because right now, the only difference between ISIS and 'moderate Muslims", is that the "moderates" don't kill, that's it. Staying silent just shows they don't disagree with what ISIS is doing.

[karahiri]

Guilty until proven innocent, hmm? And i always thought it was innocent until proven guilty.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri Guilty? No, because no one is accusing you of any crimes, but you are defending an ideology that it sure isn't bringing any good.
It's like if I'm part of the Nazis, but I've never ever killed anyone, don't partake in any racist actions, but I'm still part of the Nazis. I'm pretty sure you'd still think I'm as bad as the Nazis that do commit crimes and are racist, or am I wrong here?

[karahiri]

All monotheistic religions have less than savory parts of the text. I don't expect all Christians to want to burn all gay people. Why do so many people believe all Muslims want to carry out the violent parts of the text? It's such a double standard because of the actions of a group of insane people. And yes, i do see a distinction in the example you provided. A murderer is worse than someone who has shady ideals.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri So if I told you I was a Nazi, what would be your opinion of me, what would be the first thought that would pop in your head? Be honest.

Yes, Christianity does have shitty things too, but you know the difference between today's Christians and today's Muslims? Christians don't kill in the name of Christianity. When people justify murder and terrorism with their religion, it makes people wary about that religion, like, how can a religion justify such actions? No one thinks of Christianity as terrorists because there's no terrorist actions committed in the name of Christianity. Are there Christian terrorists and murderers? Of course, and many of them, but they don't say "it was God's will", "it was my duty as a Christian", that's the difference, and that's why people have a different opinion of both religions.

[karahiri]

"weirdo."

they're using Islam as an excuse. Islam can't speak. It can't give orders. These people are psychotic and just using the religion as an excuse for their violence. I mean, Muslims are not exempt from ISIS' violence. So to me, it's stupid to think that all Muslims are ISIS or agree with what ISIS is doing when clearly, moderate Muslims are not safe anyway. To be hated for the actions of a few is so incredibly unfair. It's creating so much tension and hatred and just proof of how little people think of each other, how little our freedoms are taken seriously. It's fucking ironic considering America was founded by those escaping religious persecution.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri So the first thing that would pop into your mind if someone told you they were a Nazi is "weirdo"? Yeah, sorry but I don't believe that hahahah

Islam does say something, it says it in the Quran and all the other religious scriptures, and I don't think saying "kill nonbelievers" is a good thing... just saying.
The real Muslims are those who believe in ISIS, because they're the ones who actually follow the Quran. Muslims that get killed by ISIS are getting killed because they do not follow everything the Quran says.

[karahiri]

Yes. Its fucking weird and backwards thinking.

So now I'm not a real Muslim? So all Christians who don't want to kill homosexuals aren't real eitherr? I follow the positive aspects of the text. Like respecting others, being charitable, caring for your family. So it's fine for everyone else to pick and choose theor beliefs. Just not Muslims.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri No, my point is that ISIS isn't doing anything "non-Muslim", like some "moderate Muslims" like to say. They say "ISIS aren't really Muslims because the Quran doesn't tell you to kill", and that's bullshit because it does. ISIS is as Muslim as it gets.

[karahiri]

What the fuck. All the books say to kill SOME group. That doesn't mean you should. You're making it aound like Muslims are the pnly bpok incaoable of distinguishing between right and wrong. Everyone hones in on the archaic hateful shit but doesn't pay any attention to the good. You can choose to believe what you want about Muslims. I have no idea why i even bothered trying to defend my faith to you.

[AleDeEurope]

@karahiri You're getting way too defensive. I never said Muslims are incapable of distinguishing right from wrong, I'm just saying that ISIS are as Muslim as it gets, that what they are doing is what the Quran teaches. You're just rambling about who knows what because it offends you that your religion is seen as bad, and instead of proving people that Islam actually does have some good, and that you're better than ISIS, you try to waste your efforts speaking to the wrong people.
Don't speak out against my opinion, speak against the actions of those dragging your religion through the dirt. Maybe it's just me, but I like to fix my problems first before I fix those of my neighbor...

[jacquesvol]

@AleDeEurope Muslims are terrorized way more by ISIS than we are. Muslim governments fight ISIS. But the normal Muslim isn't equipped to take on terrorists.

[AleDeEurope]

@jacquesvol Jesus Christ dude, stop fucking commenting on every one of my opinions. You've been doing this for months now. I tried ignoring you, hoping you'd get the hint, but you keep coming. Come on man, just leave me alone. You just keep repeating yourself over and over again and it's fucking annoying.

[jacquesvol]

@AleDeEurope You post in the same questions I post in. Why?

[AleDeEurope]

@jacquesvol I get it, but you don't have to comment on my opinions starting a debate. It was fun debating, but I just don't want to get into an argument on every freaking question.

[jacquesvol]

@AleDeEurope thus if I don't agree with you I should just shut up?

[AleDeEurope]

@jacquesvol Yeah dude, simply because we've had this argument so many times already, we'd be repeating the same thing over and over again, I'm so not doing that.

[jacquesvol]

Censoring me thus? :-|

[AleDeEurope]

@jacquesvol I'm not censoring, you still have the right to express your opinion, I'm just begging you to shut the fuck up, I'm not forcing you. I'm expressing my opinion about your opinions.

[madhatters4]

i know it must suck. it seems that people around the world always try to find a way to scapegoat the worlds problems on a massive group rather than just focusing on the individuals who do evil. it's a burden many Muslims now must bear. don't feel a need to ever apologize for your religion. you have nothing to apologize for. just be a good person. surround yourself with people who understand the realities of the situation and know that people who blame you or condemn you are living in a world of ignorance

[rcm1ah]

Stop the bullshit. Most of the "westernized arabs (especially muslims)" condone terrorists groups such as Hezbollah etc. Muslims go around the globe shaming others for their different beliefs, claiming that there is no god/s other than theirs or how western society is too liberal just for showing shoulders and things of the like. Their shitty Quran clearly states to kill al infidels (and all sorts of other violent acts). I'm not going to believe the bullshit on how Muslims (especially Arabs) don't have resentment towards the west. Stop the bullshit.

[Octavius]

"and all sorts of other violent acts"

I hope you don't like the bible then...

[rcm1ah]

@octavius Oh look... another special snowflake, who automatically assumes I'm Christian just because I call Islam for what it is... a terrorist organization.

[Octavius]

Thanks, I think I'm pretty special too! Didn't say you were Christian, just hoped that you didn't like the bible. Not exactly the same sentiment.

[rcm1ah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... sure.

[madhatters4]

"Most of the "westernized arabs (especially muslims)" condone terrorists groups such as Hezbollah etc"

fundamentally false.

[Anonymous]

Individual, muslim people are not being blamed for terrorist... the religion of an illiterate pedophile merchant.
So, therefore, anyone who associates themselves with that religion, in turn, are agreeing with the hate filled ideology that is Islam.

[ZaraHadid]

When a part of someone's identity is insulted. The normal reaction is to be rude back. Now I could insult you back. But because I follow the so-called "hate filled ideology that is Islam". I'll reply according to what Islam has taught me by saying: I hope you educate yourself on Islam before you insult it. Maybe talk to an ACTUAL Muslim? Regardless, I hope you have a good😌. Here's a little verse from the Quran, maybe it could help you learn a little about what Islam is ACTUALLY like. "Goodness and evil are not equal. Repel evil with what is better. Then that person with whom there was hatred, may become your friend! And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint, none but people of the greatest good fortune." Quran 41:34-35

[ZaraHadid]

good day*, my bad😌

[Opinion Owner]

@ZaraHadid You may want to believe that truth is an insult. Sadly that is common with your ideology. But I could give you many verses from the same book which spew hate.

There are over 400 verses that describe the torment that he has prepared for people of other religions (or no religion).

I am well educated in your ideology, as well as most others. The only difference is, I don't use
Taqiyya to lie to protect Islam, I am not bound to the ideology.

[WhiteSteve]

I'm wayyyyyy more worried about being wiped out by some idiot texting while they're driving than I am dying in a terrorist attack, Islamic or otherwise. I don't live life scared. I'm around women in hijabs fairly frequently, I think nothing of it. If they happen to be a radical terrorist and they blow some shit up while they're next to me, I don't care, I'd be dead anyway. But to just walk around making assumptions based on someone's clothing is pretty fucked.

[John_Doesnt]

When you walk around proudly with a symbol of oppression (hijab) people will always judge you negatively as they should.
www.britainfirst.org/.../CHURCHILL-2.jpg

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yeah that's was stupid as hell. Jewish men have to wear a yamaka and hack off a piece of their penis, are they oppressed too or is it just muslim women? Also how about the fact that muslim men dress like : www.bing.com/.../search
Which as you can see is incredibly revealing in comparison right?

[nalaa]

@hellionthesagereborn huh? He wasn't at all commenting about dress code

[John_Doesnt]

@hellionthesagereborn it's just Muslim women. There's a difference between choosing to wear a hat and being a piece of property to a man at all times.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa He stated that it was a sign of oppression, men are also expected to dress a certain way ergo it must be oppression for men as well. Jewish men are expected to wear a yamaka and be circumcised ergo that must also be a form of oppression by his reasoning.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No both are expected to wear unrevealing clothing, the full body cover is a choice the woman makes. Also trying to compare being "forced" to wear a clothing item as part of the religion and claiming that "choosing"(expected) to wear a clothing item while also having to have your genitals mutilated for that religion are not comparable is technically true. Having a chunk of you hacked off is far more severe. As for being property, the man is expected to give everything he has to the woman, everything he earns goes to the family. If he does not provide for her she can divorce him, he can even be punished. If she decides to get a job he is the one who has to pay the taxes on it (in fact in some places men have gone to prison becaues they where unable to do so). He would then also have to pay for a babysitter to watch over their children because again it is his responsiblity.

[hellionthesagereborn]

This is in fact one of the reasons that the bacha bazi exist, male child prostitues, because the eldest male is expected to care for the family and it doesn't matter if the woman is capable or not he is by law and custom required even if he is only nine with no skills to make money. Also if you actually look at what it says in the quran and in their culture in general what your saying is entirely false, in fact one could argue the exact opposite (hence little boys having to whore themselves out to put food on the table for their fully capable mothers). So you should probably do your research before jumping to conclusions. Here are some responsibilities and expectations of husbands:https://www. islamweb. net/en/article/135689/
The Holy Qur’an says: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah SubHanuhu wa Ta'ala has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means.” [4:34]

[nalaa]

@hellionthesagereborn Well the Churchill quote about talked about women being property in islam which is true and it's true regardless of dress code
And tbh I missed the first sentence, but the thing is wearing a hijab is NOT a choice in a lot of place it's law. So a lot of people of the hijab as a sign of oppression because it is. That's not to say there aren't other signs but none as easily visible as the hijab

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa Okay well first and foremost, no. That's just a fact. I pointed that out in my statement that the woman is not property, that she belongs to him as much as he belongs to her. I also pointed out that the man actually has a legal responsibility to the woman, the woman does not to her husband so, technically if any one is the slave its the man. He works so she can eat, he is required to provide for her required to pay her taxes if she works and she doesn't have to give him a thing. So again, pretty strange to call her property when he has all the responsibilities and she doesn't. As for the hijab, no, again. In some places it is required but that's not islam, that's theocracy i. e. poli

[nalaa]

@hellionthesagereborn please... the quran says
"Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other"
Under Sharia law men can beat their wives, their testimony isn't worth the same. In a lot of countries women can't travel, even leave the house without a male relative because islam says women should be confined to their home...
I never denied that there isn't another half of the equation, the part men have to do. But let's not pretend men don't get away better here.

by the way churchills quote continues
"Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith."

Which I think is also very timley

[nalaa]

And look if some jews decided to wear david's star on their clothing every single day for the rest of their lives, that'd be ok, right?
But they won't, because that specific act was enforced on jews by hitler with purpose of singling them out and limiting their freedom. And that's the same thing nations who require women to cover up do.

Bill Maher in a comedy piece said "How does a nation get away with keeping half iit's population in beekeepers suits" about saudi arabia. And he's right, it's insane. But it's islam, islam is how they get away with it.
And he further said "Can you imagine if the US proposed keeping all black people under a thick black curtain?" Not forcing them, just suggesting that they should, do you think people would be fine with that?

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa Yeah, I gave that quote remember, it stated that because the man is stronger it was his duty to provide for the woman. Convient that you ignored that part but kept the part that "proved" your argument. How can they beat there wives exactly? I mean that matters, being able to prove the point, prove that its without cause etc. I mean saying he is allowed to hit his wife sounds terrible unless you follow that up with if she hits him. Context. Currently and historically women have been allowed to beat their husbands without consequence, does that mean men are oppressed?(I'm guessing you won't agree with that). As for travel, they cannot travel on their own because men have to watch over and protect them. Sounds familiar doesn't it? You know how here in the west women scream about how unsafe and terrified they are, that's why a lot of people have suggested islam was the natural end result of feminism (cover the body to prevent objectification, travel with them to protect etc.).

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa However, again, you ignore all the things men have to do. Now if you argued that sharia law is outdated, yes I would agree. If you stated that its unfair to men and women (as I pointed out the many many unfair aspects it has towards men) I would agree. If you said it applied to some muslims, I would agree. But you didn't, you said it only affects women, which I proved was not the case. You said it only hurts and oppresses women while ignoring all the damage it does to men (hence, again, the bacha bazi i. e. male child prostitution among many other things). You said its Islam instead of theocracy which of course ignores how Turkey for instance does not have sharia law has fought against it and is a muslim country thus completely annulling any argument you made because it is irrefutable proof that theocracy and religion are two different things. That's why in the west we do not have these issues because church and state are separate.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa So again, its not islam, its not oppressing women (you can argue that sharia law oppresses men and women but not one or the other as both are held to standards and rules) you can say that theocracy is a terrible system and I would very much agree, but again, what your saying is not that. that is why its wrong. As for your jew analogue (again for starters, they have a piece of them hacked off), its inaccurate, men are held to rules just as strictly so again, just because women have to do something does not mean its sexism. I mean that's just stupid. So a boy having to whore himself out so his mother can live comfortably is not oppression of the boy, BUT her wearing a head covering when out in public is? You have some very fucked up ideas. As I said, if both are equally being held to the standards then that is not sexism or oppression of one gender. As for the hijab, if its forced on the women why do they chose to wear it in nations that do not demand it?

[nalaa]

@hellionthesagereborn Ya I know that qoute goes on. In fact I think more men who want traditional gender roles should be more aware of this, but again, let's not pretend women don't get short straw here. And let's also not pretend that men having responsibilities and only men having them comes without consequences for women
You know what side effect of men always taking care of women? Women not having anything when their husband/father dies. Being depended on men means women are left homeless and starving when there is no man around

It says in islam you can beat your wife
"And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath.."
And then there is this story of this battered woman that come to Mohammed and he tells her to go back to her husband

Women are complaining about feeling unsafe because we want the world to be better, not having constantly protected. Locking women away is not the right solution to a dangerous world

[nalaa]

sharia law IS outdated, I don't think that point needs arguing.
And I never said it only affects women, as I said a few times now, I know men have their part too, but I do think that women the worse of it. And by far

And I think Turkey is great for proving my point. it's a secular country. So secular in fact they outlawed headscarves in public buildings. And in the muslim world I think Turkey is easily one of the best muslim countries to be in.
And in the graph I liked in my answer you'll see that there are comparatively few people who extremist views and that's because it's a secular country

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa I mean honestly, the hijab was banned, BANNED, in Turkey which is 99% muslim. So again, how is that Islam rather then Theocracy? How hard is that to understand? When western countries where theocratic they where incredibly oppressive to, but again its the theocracy not the religion. Here is a map showing the use of the hijab and whether its mandatory:
upload.wikimedia.org/.../Hijab_world2.png
So out of 34 countries that have about 50% or greater muslim population, about two have a mandatory dress code. About 8 of those predominantly muslim countries have a ban on them in some fashion or another. So again, its not islam its theocracy. That's pretty damn obvious when you bother to do a little bit of research. Their is no debate, as I stated Turkey has banned them in several scenarios, its not required in any way shape or form, they are a secular nation composed of almost entirely muslims. Its not Islam, its theocracy.

[nalaa]

@hellionthesagereborn the thing is that islam demands theoracy

And his point was never that the hijab is oppression always in every case but rather that it's a sign of oppression because a lot of instances it is. That's how symbols work and that's what he said, it's a SYMBOL

If the davids star doesn't do it for you. Let's go with this
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/d/de-1933.gif
There's nothing inherently wrong this. Yet Hitler has ruined it for everyone and made it a symbol of oppression for at least another century to come
There's controversy around the confederate flag because for a lot of people that is a symbol of opression and slavery
16762-presscdn-0-89.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/.../screen-shot-2015-07-06-at-7-32-49-pm.png

[nalaa]

Tbh you sound a bit Trump surrogates telling us that Obama didn't personally go to Trump tower to install a wirtrap. Ya - NO ONE IS THINKING THAT

Similarily no one is thinking that all muslims are bad or even that all muslim countries are oppressive. But I think I speak for both of us when I say that we think that islam has obvious problems and requiring women to always cover up is one of them

[John_Doesnt]

@nalaa I do believe MOST Muslim countries are oppressive. I can't find one that isn't.

[nalaa]

well I think Trukey and Indonesia are ones, but I agree there certainly aren't a lot of them
And Trukey is changing for the worse as it seems to be getting back to more islamic values

[John_Doesnt]

@nalaa exactly, like Churchill said as a country gets more Islamic human rights go backwards.

[jacquesvol]

@John_Doesnt
www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...t-convert-to-Islam.html

[jacquesvol]

https://i.imgur.com/fWHl80y.jpg

[jacquesvol]

Some more:
wp.production.patheos.com/.../4terror.png
pbs.twimg.com/media/ClfhrKSWMAAkKGG.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4OwalpUkAAF0sp.jpg
professorsblogg.files.wordpress.com/.../breivik3.jpg
christian.politifake.org/.../...ics-1466399791.jpg
www.newscorpse.com/.../foxnews-mn-terror.jpg
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...28ab41bfae.jpg
www.liberallibertarianism.org/.../3060870_orig.jpg

[dudegreat]

@nalaa Turkey will be just like all the other countries in a few years. It's culture is still very much middle eastern and patriarchal. It could only progress more than other Islamic countries because Kemal Ataturk wanted Turkey to be EU member so oppressive Islamic practices were shunned. But it's culture is still pretty oppressive towards women.

[jacquesvol]

@nalaa may I suggest you to read St Paul 1Corinthians.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@nalaa Well again you are wrong, first and foremost david star/swastika is not an argument its completely unrelated to the argument all together. You calling some one or associating some one with nazis is completley irrelevent to whether or not they are. Thats an appeal to emotions i. e. "believe what I said or you support nazis" which of course is not the case. Secondly your claim that they all want a theocracy is again false because out of all the muslim countries only about 3 are theocracies. So my previous statement already disproved your counter remark. The fact is you are wrong, thats all their is to it. Again take turkey, they have always been secular they have always been against sharia law, they have out right bans on face coverings which you said ALL muslims where for, that ALL muslim countries did. You claimed ALL muslim countries are nazis (or tried to allude to it) and that they where ALL theocracies which was not the case. You are wrong.

[John_Doesnt]

@jacquesvol Actually I wrote the Koran. I did it with my shlong for the lols.

[FinalVow]

Sad fact that everyone will probably deny and flip at me for is that Islam is going through there crusades. Before you try and say they aren't just ask yourself this. what happened during the crusades (not specifically) more the general happenings. Oh that is right the Christians basically said convert or die. Ironic that when Islam goes through the convert or die phase everyone loses there minds. This is why I say religion does nothing be destroy people, lives, families, countries, nations. etc... Religion drives everyone and everything farther and farther apart. and is solely responsible for more human deaths than literally anything else in the history of ever

[Barrabus_the_Free]

I'm starting to think that a lot has to do with their country of origin. It seems like muslims from the mideast, sub-Saharan Africa, and SE Asia are all about cutting necks and suicide bombings. I have a friend, a man I call brother, who is Muslim, and he's from Gambia, and he's about as far from being a terrorist as you can get.

Of course, he's not one of the types that prays 5 times a day, either. Basically he's technically a Muslim, it's what he believes, but he's not hardcore, following every verse in the Koran. I asked him about how he lives his life vs what his faith says, and he basically said that he has plenty of time to repent any and all 'sins' before he dies. So in that way he was pretty much exactly like most christians.

[cth96190]

The founder of Islam was a paedophile (Aisha was only six years old when Mohammed married her), a mass murderer, a caravan bandit, an extortionist, a rapist (sex slaves) and a slave owner. It is all in the Quran and the Hadith.
The Quran contains 109 verses* that command Muslims to murder, enslave and/or extort non-Muslims.
That is the problem with Islam.
ISIL are not extremists. They are following the teachings of the Quran.
Is there a place for followers of this religion in the West?
Absolutely not!
*https://www. thereligionofpeace. com/pages/quran/violence. aspx

[askaway2012new]

Can you poste some verses?

[cth96190]

@askaway2012new
Follow the link.

[askaway2012new]

I am a Muslim and i read Quran in Arabic, so i don't need your link to learn what Quran says.
There is a difference between reading Quran and googling some verses out of context.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

cth, I'm not disagreeing with you, please understand that.

But the christian bible says the same thing. And the torah and talmud probably do too.

[cth96190]

@Barrabus_the_Free
The Christian Bible does not command Christians to commit murder, terrorism, extortion, own sex slaves, nor does it endorse paedophilia.

[ThisDudeHere]

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12)

[cth96190]

@ThisDudeHere
That is the Jewish part of the Bible, not the Christian New Testament.
That you did not know that, shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

[cth96190]

@Barrabus_the_Free
All of that is Jewish law, not Christian.
You do not know what you are talking about.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

[Barrabus_the_Free]

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

[Barrabus_the_Free]

In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said “Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.”

Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. “Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death.”

[Barrabus_the_Free]

Two minutes with Google yielded the text I just posted.

But now I expect you're going to say that that somehow ISN'T what your christian god actually meant, or that that is some OTHER sect of christianity, or somesuch nonsense.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

And there it is, the claim that it's not christianity.

I'm glad your faith is dying out and muzzies are replacing you. At least muzzies are honest about being the enemy of truth, logic, reason, and all things non-muzzie.

[cth96190]

@Barrabus_the_Free
FYI I am an Odinist, not a Christian, but I have studied Christian theology.
What you appear to not understand is that there is a huge line between the old law, the Jewish law, as written in the books of the Old Testament, and the teachings of Jesus and his disciples, as delivered in the books of the New Testament.
Nothing in the old law applies to Christianity.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

It's the bible, not the torah, not the talmud. The bible. The holiest of the holy for christians.

And I don't care. Christianity is an invasive, parasitic, genocidal belief system, and the sooner it goes the way of the dodo, the better. They can give the holidays back to the people of Europe, the people they stole the from while committing genocide, before they die out, though. That would be great.

[ThisDudeHere]

@Barrabus_the_Free Agreed.

[jacquesvol]

cth96190 You didn't read the Bible, did you?

[jacquesvol]

Jesus is clearly quoted as saying that not a word of the OT will be changed

[jacquesvol]

Mat 15:17

[jacquesvol]

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–

[jacquesvol]

Thus thd OT horrors are Christian too.

[ThisDudeHere]

@jacquesvol I'm pretty sure he will ignore you from now on and just drop this subject.

[cth96190]

@jacquesvol
Actually, Jacques, I spent years studying it.

[jacquesvol]

@cth96190
I'm not impressed.

[Bananaman177]

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[askaway2012new]

Impossible to prove violence in Quran, read all the verse to know that it was taken out of context
"There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination." Quran 60:04

[askaway2012new]

Read the verse 60:07 and 60:08 to know that you are wrong un your Judgment
"Perhaps Allah will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And Allah is competent, and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly."

[sailorjupiter]

wow... u knew Quran so much than a Muslims who learn it in our Islamic classes for 4-5years and living as a Muslim for almost 30 years. *claps

[WalterRadio]

@askaway2012new
Apparently, terrorists are killing people because of verses "out of context".

So what are you going to do about it?