Why This Atheist Cares About Religious Discussion

[ladsin]

I see this question becoming more and more frequent on this site,and as such I've just been copy-pasting the same answer on all of them, but I figured I could flesh the ideas out a little better here and then just link here every time I see the question in the future instead.

So, the first thing I feel compelled to mention is that not all atheists care. Atheism isn't a monolithic thing, it is the belief that theists have not met their burden of proof. Besides that atheists can believe in anything. They can believe in fairies, psychics, alien abductions or anything else. They can be communists or capitalists. They can donate to charity, or rob from the poor. They can be a left-wing feminazzi, or a gun toting redneck liberal. Other than disbelief in a particular claim there is not necessarily any common ground between us. As such, I want to stipulate that the views and positions espouse here are my own and mine only. They are not to be extended to all atheists.

So, not all atheists care, but I do. I have three primary reasons for caring and engaging in conversations with theists. Firstly I think it important for all of us to engage in discussion with those who disagree with us to test our own worldview. Secondly, I think that religious beliefs can hamper one's ability or lessen their probability at succeeding with several fields primarily in the sciences. Lastly, when I look around the world and see injustice it is almost invariably being carried out by the religious or being justified by religious persons for various reasons.

Discussion

I've always found engaging others in discussions and debate to be an incredibly enjoyable experience, but further through discussing issues with people I always feel that I learn more and more that I did not know before. For this reason I enjoy to continue discussing theism and religion to both learn and educate.

Sciences

When I was younger I lived in the Bible Belt in the USA and was sent to a private school. Schools in my home state were already notoriously bad with our education always within the worst three in the nation. It was worse however that I went to a private school because they were allowed to teach more or less whatever they wished in regards to the sciences. For this reason I grew up believing in a 6000 year old earth, creationism, that radiometric dating methods were completely unreliable, that there was a conspiracy within the scientific community and much more. This set me back pretty far when I got into college. I originally had wanted to work in genetics, but partially due to this setback it was a very hard battle and I eventually had to give it up. I know that not all theists or religious have had that same experience that I had, but I know for a fact that I am not and was not the only one. In fact I'm quite certain that none of my graduating class from highschool ended up in a science field (most in business and one or two mechanical engineers).

Injustice

Everyone knows that in antiquity religions cause quite a lot of harm. Everyone can point out the genocides of both other religions and their own, slavery, witch burning, and things of that nature in antiquity, but many think that that is all in the past. Religions no longer do bad things, they've changed. This is a result of willful ignorance so far as I can tell. Whenever I look around the world today and see a country that murders gays for having sex they're religious. When I see a country that denies women rights or treats them as lesser than men they're religious countries. In my own country when a person or group of people want to deny rights to same sex couples it's always a religious argument. When they want to deny women's rights they do it for religious reasons. When people want to cut up babies genitals they're always religious. When someone says that they want gay children to commit suicide they are invariably religious. Etc etc. These things are grotesque and disgraceful and I see no good reason to think that they would do so if they did not think they had a divine command to do so.

Anyway, hope this helped clarify my reasons a bit! Thoughts and comments appreciated.

[ADFSDF1996]

I think people in general need to understand that atheism isn’t always synonymous with anti-theism but anti-theism is always synonymous with atheism. A regular atheist symply finds it hard to believe that there is a higher power but doesn’t mean he or she has a issue with said higher power or religion. So it shouldn’t be surprising that many atheists want to learn more about religion.

Anti-theists however have a hostile attitude towards not just towards religion but also with what they perceive as “God”. They use religion and a higher power as scapegoats for the worlds problems. They even try to force their ideas onto others. Richard Dawkins is a present day anti-theist, his ideas in regards to religion and God are so extreme that many atheists don’t want to be associated with him. It’s been proven on several occasions that anti-theists can be oppressive towards the religious when they are in position of authority, for example communist countries.

[ladsin]

What ideas does Dawkins that you find "extreme".

P. S. Made me think of Dawkins riding a skateboard and yelling EXTREME!

[ADFSDF1996]

People have criticized him for being too hostile, such as making controversial remarks towards Ahmed Mohamed.

[ladsin]

Ah, he's certainly been tactless in certain scenarios. For example the time he stated or implied that religious education was akin to child abuse. While I don't think he's incredibly wrong I do think it is tactless and not beneficial to his cause at all.

[Aynsof]

I grew up in Denmark which is by law actually a Christian country but one of the most secular countries in the world
Very few people are truly religious here the state and taxes maintain our churches and to most they just provide services like weddings and funerals which are done because of tradition more than belief
So I have not had religion imposed on me with negative consequences and rarely will bother overly much with discussions with religious people
I will occasionally because it is good to expose oneself to counter arguments something that applies to all opinions...
I could see why with your story you might be more inclined to challenge the religious world view as it cost you and it will cost other kids in your situarion

[ladsin]

Mmm, especially in America where the religious groups continuously try to encroach on the freedom of others. Try to advocate their religious teachings in science classrooms etc.

[Aynsof]

Indeed
I lived in the US for a while in the bay area supposedly one of the most we up at areas in the US and it was still shocking to me how "big" religion was there
I hardly dare think about what the bible belt must be like
Mostly I do not care to argue against o the people's religious beliefs they may be silly to me but it is their business
When they start pushing for creationism and such in schools it stops being their own business and then they should be countered... though unfortunately I have found most people who believe these sorts of things really don't want to listen to any reason

[ladsin]

Mmm, I was one of them though so the change can happen!

[cherryphi82]

I can see why this experience of you growing up and going to a religious private school would have hampered with your life. What I don't see eye to eye with you on is your take on injustice. Not all people who believe in God are religious or are avid churchgoers. Having standards or holding to certain virtues/truths is a universal thing. Belonging to a denomination can just solidify those, but does not guarantee blind adherence. I'm not offended that you don't believe in God, I just think you need to be accurate between the concept of theism and ingroup tribalism, which a lot of religious people devolve into. But again, that is not unique to religious groups. The other problem I have is that most atheists today are really against monotheism, and Christianity in particular, but have no problem with polytheistic nature religions or paganism, even though many of the same accusations leveled against monotheism and Christianity hold true for them as well.

[ladsin]

I'm honestly not aware of any large polytheistic groups that attempt to enforce their religious rules in my country, but that's of course because they're a great minority. I think one problem that many Christians will have with atheists is that they seem to "pick on" Christians, but I think this is incorrect. At least for American Atheists the biggest problem in their way isn't the nordic pagan groups or the Wiccans, or even really Jews or Muslims, it's mostly evangelical Christians, which is why they spend so much more time engaging with them.

I also wouldn't want my words to come across poorly. I don't think I stated that religious belief inevitably leads to genocides and things of the like, in fact my implication meant to be that they're doing far better than they used to, but that when I see injustice in the world most all if not all of it is committed by religious groups still. Not all religious are bad, but all the bad guys seem religious is the idea.

[cherryphi82]

Yeah, but then you have to specify that instead of saying you simply are against theism. You come across as a smart and well-informed guy, and this kind of inaccuracy really messes things up because it devolves into dishonesty. I'm not saying you *are* but merely explaining that repeated emphasis on something that is really a lot more specific and pointed leads to dangerous generalizations.

So again, to restate, what you are really against are proselytizing American Christian churches that want to spread their beliefs and convert people. That's fair. And understandable. Because what's really behind this is a form of imperialism and cultural domination. Again, if that's what you are against, you need to clarify that and state why that is wrong instead of approaching it from a standpoint that looks like you simply have something against people who believe in God. Lots of people believe in God or Messianic figures and do not try to convert others.

[cherryphi82]

My other peeve is that atheists, so far mostly from anecdotal evidence, seem to actually be engaging in the exact kind of proselytizing that they hate in others. They want to convince people to not believe in a higher being because they see it as somehow immoral with the exact justifications you have given (religious worship leads to injustice), and that's what I'm against. They way that atheists present themselves is that they are for freedom of thought and freedom of choice. Arguments like the above negate that entire thing. If you deem someone more prone to being immoral/bad because they believe in a higher being, then that sets up the exact judgment system that evangelicals have, except at mirror image.

[Cryostatic]

Polytheistic and pagan people in America don't attempt to shape legislation to oppress people who don't fall in line with their particular brand of morality. Christians unapologetically DO, to great effect.

If Christians would just keep to their own beliefs, then there wouldn't be a problem.

[cherryphi82]

@Cryostatic Did you read the thread?

[ladsin]

Perhaps in the future I could be more specific, but I think that would just lead to hyper-specificity, and I think that you're making assumptions about my position. For example, you keep bringing up Christians, but I never once mentioned them here, and in fact the picture I provided was of a Muslim.

I suppose you could've misconstrued my usage of "Bible Belt" when talking about my childhood, but I still don't see how you came to the understanding that I'm against Christianity in particular. My three reasons given for engaging in religious discussions were:
1.) To educate both myself and others
2.) Harm to education that is more likely to come about with some religious' indoctrination, and I gave an example of how this has happened and why I particularly am concerned.
3.) When I see injustice it is typically defended by or perpetrated by religious groups and I want it to stop. I then gave some examples.

I don't know how you came to your conclusions about my intent.

[cherryphi82]

"At least for American Atheists the biggest problem in their way isn't the nordic pagan groups or the Wiccans, or even really Jews or Muslims, it's mostly evangelical Christians, which is why they spend so much more time engaging with them."

I'm not here to discuss Christianity. I'm here to point out the fallacies in your argument that you are a anti-theist, when really you are against cultural and religious imperialism as practiced, in your country in particular, by Christian evangelicals. That has nothing to do with hyperspecificity, but with the accuracy and truthfulness of your argument. You are from a Christian culture. If you were from a Muslim culture, the discussion would naturally evolve into that direction.

[ladsin]

Hold on. Firstly, that was my response after you brought up Christianity, that was nowhere in the myTake. Secondly, I spoke generically about "American Atheists". I did not say that was my position, and in fact you can see that I said "THEY" "THEIR" and not me. Also as I pointed out in the myTake above Atheism is not a monolithic thing. People have varying views and care about different things and disagree on many things. What some atheists do or mean is not what I do or mean. Thus I talked about why other atheists MAY focus on one particular religion above the others.

What fallacies? You haven't even mentioned one, have you? Are you being serious with me, or are you just pulling my leg? I'm writing about something else at the moment, so if you're just messing with me that's fine, but I don't want to waste too much time here if you're just pulling my leg.

[Lovi87]

"Not all people who believe in God are religious or are avid churchgoers."

Exactly!

[Pamina]

Well said, thanks. So far, ever since I joined the site, I have found myself always agreeing with your views on religion. I think the one major difference between you and me (besides the obvious fact that you have thorough knowledge in scripture that I entirely lack, because I didn't grow up with it) is your patience with the arguments of religious people. I think I just don't have the energy for them. You know what they say - pick your batteles. But I'm glad people like you exist, who do pick that battle.

[ladsin]

It can be annoying at times, but I remember when I was quite similar (although I think I was more cordial than a lot of the people I discuss with these days). Much of what actually changed my mind occurred on this site oddly enough.
Thanks for the comment though!

[Steven71]

I was raised Catholic and I dispised it the whole time especially with the double standards

[Steven71]

I believe in God but at the same time I am also whicca

[Intraluminal]

Another, and to my mind more serious, reason to engage theists is because of the very concerning threat they pose to our democracy.

I just recently discovered that a number of theists, particularly Trumpettes, have begun to subscribe to a weird variant of "the Divine Right of Kings." They think that god somehow transforms all of our leaders into perfect leaders (although interestingly enough, this did not apparently apply to Obama.)

[ladsin]

Mmm certainly. I would lump that in with my third point, but it's certainly worth addressing that they intend to legislate their religion on non-adherents.

[Intraluminal]

It's not just a question of legislating religion into law, it means that they are so blind that anyone can be foisted upon them, and therefore upon us, and they will continue to support that "divinely inspired" leader. You see it with Trump, and we will undoubtedly see it with even worse leaders, Pense for example.

[ladsin]

*Pence
But I agree, it's an error of thinking, or perhaps it's just lazy thinking, but I get what you're pointing out. My response would just be that I find that particular issue (lazy thinking) to not solely belong to the realm of religious discussions, this was meant to be a tad more nuanced on those discussions in particular.

There are many people on the left and the right, theist or atheist, pro-gun or anti-gun etc that are sloppy thinkers and simply follow the group. However, in this last election cycle I would certainly say that I personally saw more of it on the right, although that's likely because I live in a very red state.

[levantine99]

he doesn't. he is an agent. its not about dialogue. God isn't deduced, He is hunted and courted with your lifestyle and repentance. this puppet is nothing but put by the rothchilds to be on a crusade against religion and create the new lukewarm army of antithea-tards. and its antitheist not atheist. ontologically atheists dont exist. when you are not of the Light, you are automatically of the chained slaves of the cave (Plato's cave reference). the middle way is the most ancient delusion. besides Life there is only the Abyss.

[ladsin]

Ah, right right. I don't exist. Well, you're just a brain in a vat, so ha!

[levantine99]

you dont, ontologically speaking. you dont. you function but you dont Live.

[levantine99]

oh and i congratulate the choice of picture you picked in your propaganda piece. not a christian nun aiding kids in an orphanage or something, but an execution. like a totally healthy view of religion. not one sided in the least.

[ladsin]

ROAR!
Also I put that picture up a few sentences after I discussed particular religious groups executing homosexuals. It was both germane to the topic at hand, and an example of the sorts of brutality that I was mentioning above.
Either you didn't read it, didn't read it with any attention to detail, or read it, but don't want to address the issues brought about in the myTake. Regardless it's indicative of your typical methods of ignoring dissenting opinions.

Have you not heard that the reason Hamas and other similar organizations do so well is because they offer aid and charity to the poor?

[levantine99]

whatever works with you mate. good luck with dat atheism thingy.

[ThePetSquirrel]

Thank you.
I too enjoy discussing religion and faith with others, including atheists, just to get a different perspective on things. It's tough though because most conversations are: "God will damn you all to hell!!!"
"You mean your flying spaghetti monster, ROFLMAO?"

[ladsin]

Mmm. The FSM can be a helpful tool, but so far as I can tell it tends to not go over well and the theist feels that the atheist is just interested in mockery.

[girl_with_questionz]

The people who believe religions literally are the ones who need psychiatric help. Fitting two of every animal on a boat? There's billions of species bruh. Burning bushes and parting oceans so you can walk across the bottom? Not only is that just impossible, the bottoms of oceans aren't solid!!! They're like muddy goopy quicksand that'd you sink and die in. Have you ever touched the bottom of a pond? Its like that but a hundred times more of it. People this stupid are the ones who read religious books and decide to go murder people.

The people who treat religion like a spiritual culture and community building thing should be left alone, theyre not hurting anyone and its probably better for you than thinking nothing has a meaning and were all just chemicals. So long as they aren't forcing anyone to be a part of it and respect people who disagree, religion is cool and makes you think about things.

Bottom line everyone don't read everything literally and quit hurting each other! 😞

[larswisner]

i don't think you understand why the bible has impossible scenarios included in them like the ark. the huge flood never happened. even as a catholic i don't believe that was possible, but those stories are often written as a way of teaching a lesson while keeping it entertaining. its all about interpretation of these passages which is where you have so many types of one religion. the only people who take it literally are those crazy terrorists.

[Servus09]

Did you really grow up believing the earth was 6,000 years old? I have found this to be a common strawman talking point of atheists. They all talk about it, yet nobody actually believes the earth is 6,000 years old. At least not anybody who understand why that theory exists.

Conflating Christianity and Judaism with Islam is hilariously stupid. Both religions have undergone a reformation, whereas Islam has not. You also overlooked the greatest tyrants over the last few centuries, all of which were ideologues, and neither religious or atheist.

[ladsin]

I did. I was taught that and frequently argued it on this site and others around 8 years ago. Where I grew up, so far as I could tell, this was the normative belief. No one questioned it.

Also I think you're being facetious when you say that no one believes it. Have you not heard of Ken Ham?

It most certainly is not. It was the Christians that passed the Kill The Gays Bill in Uganda. It was the Christians that aided and in some cases participated in the Rwandan Genocides killing hundreds of thousands. The Terrorist group NLFT in India is Christian. The Lord's Resistance Army, God's Army, and any number of other known terrorist groups with ties to Christianity.

In the west it is certainly the case that Christians are no longer (by and large) attempting to kill the gays or strip rights from women, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a host of other bad ideas. It's the Christians in America that have supported, or are supporting electro-shock therapy for the gays. --

[ladsin]

It's Christians in North Carolina who just upheld legislation that a woman cannot revoke consent to sex once given.
Etc etc

[Servus09]

I have never met anyone in my life who claims the earth is 6,000 years old. You will have to forgive me if I think you're lying about being raised with this belief. Now you very well may have been taught that God created everything. That's not the same as the young earth creationist theory, though.

This is another common strawman from atheists. They like to conflate creationism with young earth creationist theory. This is why someone like Ken Ham is well known to atheists, whereas most Christians have never heard of him before.

[Servus09]

Now onto more cherry picking.

Uganda is predominately black with an average IQ of 84. Rwanda is also predominately black with an average IQ of 70. Would you be willing to say that low IQ blacks voted for this "Kill the Gays Bill," and that they killed hundreds of thousands of White Rwandans?

Oh, I forgot. It's only ok to make sweeping generalizations about religions. Yet anyone who has taken a cursory look at the Rwandan genocide knows it was tribalistic and had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Even the bill you mentioned has more to do with what black Africans think of gay people than their alleged Christian beliefs.

I'm not going to bother addressing your comments on the NFLT. Again, you lack the historical knowledge of a nation and don't realize that these people have thousands of Gods. Jesus just happens to be one of them.

[Servus09]

Nobody is forcing anyone to do electroshock therapy. Nor is it used exclusively on gay people. Now you're cherry picking loopholes in a North Carolina constitution that nobody even knew existed until 2015.

What is your point? That Christianity is evil? Ok, I get it. Your point is well received.

[ladsin]

Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, and others were the videos shown and taught to me in both my middle and high schools. One of my teachers actually helped co-author a book with William Lane Craig, but disagreed with him on his long day theories. If you want to look at my posts on this site from when I first started 8 years ago be my guest. I in fact used to argue short day creationism on this site.

I enjoy being called a liar as much as the next person, but let's look at some research on the subject since you've never met one. According to Gallup American belief in a less than 10000 year old earth has reached record lows as of 2017. Do you want to guess how many? 38%

I'll leave you to your own ruminations, I have no desire to attempt a discussion with a person who insinuates that I'm a liar multiple times and pretends that a large portion of their own population don't believe what they in fact do.

[ladsin]

Jesus Christ. You can't possibly serious.
i.ytimg.com/vi/OWrlFVYn3mI/maxresdefault.jpg

[Servus09]

Good for you. Like I said, I found it hard to believe. I'm not saying you weren't taught this. Who cares either way? You're a good atheist now. I guess the indoctrination and electroshock therapy failed to work on you?

HA! Now you're doubling down on your bullshit. I love it.

[ladsin]

Either I'm doubling down on bullshit and all the research on American belief in the age of the earth is false, OR some internet guy who isn't aware of the research is wrong. I'll leave that to you.
Have a goon one.

[Stephen5577]

Typical atheist liar. You don't even know what a Christian is. The more I listen to atheists the more they turn me away from atheism, based on their lies and their ignorance.

[TwinklingNeurons]

What field did you end up going into? What made genetics a hard field? If you don't mind me asking. Also do believe in evolution or are there other theories atheists believe in?

[ladsin]

I was interested in genetics as a whole, but I particularly wanted to work on protein kinase receptors (Tyrosine Kinase?). I was interested in figuring out how and why they deregulate and working on a solution.
I failed applied calculus once, basic mathematics once, and almost failed basic mathematics a second time, but was able to work with my professor to pass in the end. I just couldn't do math even though I kept trying. This was likely due to the fact that my middle and high school had very very poor mathematics education. The doctors say that my math ability stops at around the 7th or 8th grade. Whereas reading comprehension and analytical thinking is at the post graduate level.

Evolution is a fact. We see it all the time, and it's a cornerstone of all the biological sciences. As for "theories atheists believe in" it's hard to say. Again atheism is not a monolithic thing. Atheists can believe in talking shoes and goblins and ghouls and a flat earth. I don't believe in those.

[TwinklingNeurons]

That is very interesting! I am sorry your original major didn't work out, and I hope you are happy with what you are doing now. Genetics is definitely an interesting field in science.
I, too, had a similar situation happen to me with math. I used to be very good with it, but I ended up having to skip taking a math class one year and now I am not anywhere close to where I used to be. I am ahead with language arts.
"Talking shoes" Haha, I didn't know that could qualify atheism xD. What are your thoughts in agnosticism?
Also, I used to be a firm believer in evolution, but I started to research it a little more and some things I find confusing. Natural selection and selective breeding are obviously happening as shown in domesticated animals and Darwin with his pigeons. However, do you have any examples of new species developing? I know its a slow process. Though after descending from wolves, dogs have gone through many changes to become different breeds, but they are still dogs. I see

[TwinklingNeurons]

natural selection and selective breeding, not evolution, unless they are the same? Lastly, do you know how two different sexes evolved? I can't figure out how they possibly could as one is dependent upon the other, thus they can't evolve independently like they did. Unless there is something I am missing?

[ladsin]

Yeah, math stinks.
All is well though, I love psychology.
You're Not Agnostic, You're An Atheist ↗ I explained a little more here, but gnosticism/ agnosticism and theism/ atheism are not mutually exclusive. I'm an agnostic atheist, what is typically termed "weak atheism". I don't see any good reason to believe in a god, thus I am an atheist. I, however, do not claim to KNOW that no gods exist because I don't think that proposition is well evidenced either.

I wrote this Creationism V Evolution ↗ as a good cover to the evolution v creation question, but sure. We see speciation events all the time both in laboratory settings and within nature.

[TwinklingNeurons]

AWESOME!! I will be sure to check that out

[ladsin]

Let me know what you think! I always enjoy engaging in discussion.

[CountessSarah]

Yeah, exactly. All excellent points.

Theists naively ask 'Why do you care what I believe?' as if their faith exists in a bubble, separate from the rest of their character, as if it never influences how they vote, or how they interact with other people. Like it was no different from having a particular favourite colour.

[ladsin]

Yep, I like the way Hitchens said it best, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n56u6omxeOs

[John_Doesnt]

Spreading ignorance is wrong and it makes perfect sense for atheists to want to talk about the elephant in the room: religion which spreads more ignorance than anything else.
As an atheist I'm not obsessed with religion at all, I'm obsessed with calling out pseudoscience and making sure the public doesn't get dragged down any further with beliefs that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.

[Deathraider]

I agree very much so. I also think that the belief in religion also ties in with many logical fallacies, most often the God of Gaps fallacy and shifting the burden of proof.

[Servus09]

Atheists do the same thing. Richard Dawkins, for instance, believes aliens jump-started human evolution because there is no other explanation.

[ladsin]

@Servus09
Are you referencing Ben Stein's "Expelled"?

[Deathraider]

@Servus09 When did he say that? If he said that, the scientific community still wouldn't agree with him. We don't follow Dawkins like that.

[ladsin]

In Ben Stein's propagandistic movie Expelled Ben Stein repeatedly pushed Dawkins on the question of Abiogenesis and intelligent design and Dawkins eventually said that he supposed the idea of directed panspermia was possible, but that we simply don't know how it happened.
The full movie is on youtube if you'd like to watch it, but I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCRnr-QrjPI
did a fairly job covering it along with it's flaws. I actually was shown this movie when I was in High School and found it very compelling until I discovered that they were attempting to intentionally deceive me.

[goaded]

@Servus09 He said it was possible life came to Earth from other places (not that be believed it did), it would be irresponsible to exclude the possibility altogether, which is why he's also left a sliver of doubt as to whether there is a god.

But that would just mean life started somewere else, not that it didn't start naturally. And obviously there is another explanation for human evolution, the one he understands and wrote books about: chemistry and evolution.

[HamAndCheese]

As an atheist, overzealous fedora tippers literally make me question whether or not I should remain an atheist. It seems like so many atheists are motivated less by conviction in the belief that there is no god than they are motivated by just thinly veiled hatred for religious folks.

[ladsin]

I've never worn a fedora, so everything you've said is wrong...

Just kidding, but really. None of what you said makes sense. You are going to believe in a god because those who also don't believe in a god additionally point out that those who do believe in gods do bad things in the name of those gods? That's the worst reason to give up your disbelief that I can think of.
Secondly. What conviction are you talking about? Atheists don't accept a claim "some god exists". They typically do not accept this claim because it's unevidenced. You are upset that some atheists have less conviction in the lack of evidence for a god than you are? How much certainty do you have?

Thirdly, I don't hate religious folks. I spoke here about why I engage in discussion with religious people. I have to assume that either you did not read it, or did not read it with any attention to detail because "hatred of the religious" was not a theme here at all.

[cherryphi82]

That has been my experience as well...

[HamAndCheese]

Never actually accused you of any of this. So who exactly was it who didn't read very carefully?

[ladsin]

Hmm.
"overzealous fedora tippers literally make me question whether or not I should remain an atheist. It seems like so many atheists are motivated less by conviction in the belief that there is no god than they are motivated by just thinly veiled hatred for religious folks." Who was this in reference to then? If it wasn't about me, then I'm not sure what your point was in this response to myTake.

Perhaps I'm missing something, can you clarify?

[Dchrls78104]

Perhaps behind the atheism some are still searching for meaning to life and answers to serious existential questions.
"Nature is mute. We question her in vain.
We need a God who speaks to the human race."
"If God did not exist, it would be necessary for mankind to invent Him."

[ladsin]

Did you read it?

[Dchrls78104]

@ladsin Yes, I did; hence, my response.

[ladsin]

Hmm. How did you get that from the myTake?

[SirRexington]

Very much so. I enjoy speaking about religion because I've learned a lot about many different kinds. It's good to learn about the things you protest in order to have a legitimate argument.

[genericname85]

because obviously most religions have lots of intrinsic philosophical value, which is worth thinking about.
it's a good way of personal growth to deal with those deep thoughts and also avoid superstition and a lack of critical thinking. loads of "believers" have falling into the hole of superstition where they stop questioning why they believe, which causes stagnation in your development, whcih is qhat atheists critique about it.

[andreasderjuengere]

So, you refuse god, because the religions don't get it right. That's in a way like a Coca Cola boycott, because the company truck driver is always late. You will have your reasons in that respect, I assume. Only, I did not read about them here. (?)

[ladsin]

This was a myTake about why I engage in religious discussion, not why I am an atheist. As you can see from the first picture I posted it is a common theist trope that atheists are being deceitful or are not rationally justified in discussing religion, because they have no good reason to do so. If they're arguing about it, maybe they're closeted theists, but just want money, or fame, or to force other people to sin, or some other such nonsense.

This take gave my three reasons for engaging in religious discussion despite now being an atheist, and can be summarily defined:
.) To educate both myself and others
2.) Harm to education that is more likely to come about with some religious' indoctrination, and I gave an example of how this has happened and why I particularly am concerned.
3.) When I see injustice it is typically defended by or perpetrated by religious groups and I want it to stop. I then gave some examples.

[andreasderjuengere]

Accepted.

[BS123456]

As an atheist, I practice Taoism & Buddhism but I have visited churches and read passages all to gain knowledge, mostly of how the world thinks. It is the empty mind who never finds there way out of the elevator.

[ladsin]

Taoism is interesting.

[Steven71]

Catholic have a past of killing others that doesn't follow them and they still prosecute others to this day. They will never admit it but they worship death and prostitution.

[Landshrk0068]

Very good my take, excellent points. I became an atheist when I realised the back stories of God and Santa Claus, were the exact same stories, just for different audiences.

[jacquesvol]

Rare are religious discussions where atheists aren't accused or vilified

[JayMichigan616]

Atheists care because they believe that they should make the best of this life since they dont believe in the after life. Most relig

[ladsin]

Did you read it?

[JayMichigan616]

I did but for some reason it only posted half my opinion so I didn't get my point across

[ladsin]

Mmm. Gotcha