You're Not Agnostic, You're An Atheist

[ladsin]

I think many people like to claim that they are agnostic because they're afraid of coming out and telling people that they are atheists. Humorously I, and several people I know, were willing to come "out of the closet" to their parents in regards to sexual preferences, but are terrified about telling their parents about their closeted beliefs about religion/ theism.

But, for those of you who just don't understand I'll try to write this myTake to elucidate on my thoughts on the issue, and hopefully no longer have to argue this point, although I'm sure I will. While I like Huxley for his work in spreading "Darwinism" one thing I can't thank him for is for coining the term agnostic because of all the confusion it has caused. Gnosticism and Agnosticism has to do with claims about knowledge, whereas theism and atheism have to do with your beliefs about a specific claim. These two positions are not mutually exclusive, in fact the two have little to do with each other. Below I'll put a little picture to give the general idea.

Many of you may be thinking, but atheists say there are no gods! They are making a faith based claim that no gods exist. Wrong, while yes, some atheists take on an additional claim that no gods exist (this tends to be known as gnostic atheism, strong atheism, or anti-theism) that is not the definition of atheism.

A·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Atheist&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS752US753&oq=Atheist&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61l2.1599j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods."

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/

Definition of atheism
1a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods
b : a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

Etc Etc

Some of you may at this point be concerned that I haven't proven my title to be true. That's for two main purposes, firstly, I was being a tad hyperbolic. Secondly, however, I think depending on how you define knowledge the case changes. If, for example, you believe knowledge has something to do with absolute knowledge etc then we would agree that it's possible to be both a theist and an agnostic. If, however, you think of knowledge just as a justified belief then I would think that in the act of saying "I don't know if a god exists" that would mean that you in fact do not believe in a god, making you an atheist. I decided to put this at the end because based on prior experience most people won't read all the way down to here, and I though clearing up the first bit was more important.

Anyway, hope this cleared up a bit, looking forward to some responses.

[D_Bone_Steak]

As someone that used to think he was agnostic... I'd like to thank the 'Amazing Atheist' for enlightening me that I was simply Atheist... or like the word I had to google when I read this take, to "elucidate" myself to its meaning. I'll add that one in there with deleterious for when and if I want to sound smart in the future.

It's the exact definitions of the words that's tripping people up... semantics. Which is normal... my position of simply having no evidence of the existence of a god, but if I did, I'd believe in a said god... that never changed. I was just defining it wrong. As a child I asked, I was told, an atheist was something more akin to a satan worshiper... agnostic was the one holding out on belief due to no evidence. Miseducation had me defining myself as something I wasn't despite being solid on my position.

But for fucks sake... if someone redifines the word yet again, and again, and yet again, all it would change is what I'm supposed to be calling my position, not the position itself.

[jennifer_bloom]

I love being religious - my religion is the highlight of my life

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

What's your religion

[jennifer_bloom]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy Christian

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

🖒🖒🖒

[ATuairiscean]

It is not for any hard principled ideas that I don't cathegorically state what I am, it is a genuine confusion - For 30 plus years I have known I am something either an atheist or an agnostic - I am a fairly logical person so if we break it down that an Atheist says there is no God and an Agnostic cannot say for certain there is no God. Now my dilemma is that I don't think you can be 100% about anything like 1,000 years ago the greatest minds would have been adamant that man wouldn't fly or walk on the moon so my belief is that I am 99.9% certain there is no God but will not close the door completely for any unknown variables.
Also there is the politicisation of beliefs, I don't see why does it have to be an issue if you are agnostic, atheist, christian, jew, muslim etc just do your own thing within the bounds of you are not impinging/hurting anyone else (whole different debate here). I basically find myself just saying that I am non religious with my own personal beliefs/moral code to try navigate any discussions.

[ladsin]

Problem is that atheism is not the position that no gods exist.

[OfDeath]

Why didn't you include the definition for agnostic?
For those who don't know, here it it:

agnostic
aɡˈnɒstɪk/Submit
noun
1.
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
synonyms: sceptic, doubter, questioner, doubting Thomas, challenger, scoffer, cynic; More
adjective
1.
relating to agnostics or agnosticism.
synonyms: sceptical, doubting, questioning, unsure, cynical, unbelieving, disbelieving, non-believing, faithless, irreligious

So basically agnostics don't believe and are basically the same as atheists except they don't say it's outright impossible, they just say it's likely impossible and won't believe what they can't know for sure.

I'm a true agnostic but a little bit different.

My personal view on god is that his DOES exist but only in human thought in the form of a fictional character in literature and concept which is used as both entertainment and as a political tool to control people's minds and actions.

If there is a god (which there likely might not be) it won't be the same as the human imagination across most religions claim it to be.
It will be a concept we have yet the capacity to comprehend.

[ladsin]

Ah, that would've been good to add. You are conflating two terms though, and this is the problem I often note in this discussion. Knowledge, and belief are not synonymous. Agnostics think nothing can be KNOWN in this discussion (And as I said depending on the definition of knowledge I'd say nothing can be known), that has nothing to do with belief, or lack thereof.

[1truekhaleesi]

This is really funny to me because on my journey from being Christian to becoming an atheist, I considered myself Agnostic for a while. And then I realized, I didn't want to call myself Atheist because of the connotations attached to it. And because my family is quite conservative, I figured if they found out I dont believe in God, I could play the “but I am agnostic not Atheist!” I started considering myself to be Atheist, because I couldnt deny it. My family still doesn't know I am atheist and I am not sure I will tell them. At least not any time soon. They already freaked the duck out when they found out I dont plan on having kids.

[ladsin]

Haha yeah...

[Intraluminal]

And so the theists perpetuate their idiocy.

[dragonfly6516]

What am I? I believe that all of the Gods exist, every single one of them from every religion. BUT, I don't believe them to be actual "Gods". I don't believe that they are truly "all powerful", or omnipotent. I just think they're far more powerful than we, but, they still needs us. That's why I don't worship any.

I believe in the beings that others claim are gods, but no that they are gods, and I don't believe in another beings. Does that mean that I don't believe in Gods?

Personalty I think that the universe itself is sentient, and that it created everything within itself, which explains why we're all interconnected. If we're part of a larger thing, then do we really truly have "free will"? Or do we just think we're free, because its thoughts, are our thoughts, and it's free?

[ladsin]

It depends on specifically how you word your belief. If you believe in any god then you are a theist. That said, not all god claims are omnipotent or anything of that sort, for example the old norse gods were basically just superhumans. If you call them gods and believe in them you'd be a theist.

[WiggleWasser]

That would more properly be defined as polytheism or pantheism.

[QueenofCups]

Do you believe that the gods have sex with mortals and conceive semi-divine children?

[dragonfly6516]

@QueenofCups Yes, I believe that it is possible that some of them could have, but I don't really believe that I have met anyone like that.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Nope, that's just the extreme narcissism of atheism talking. I do not claim knowledge where their is none ergo I am agnostic. You have no idea whether or not their is a god but you claim to know that their is not a god. That means your believing in something without evidence which is completely irrational. If you claim to not know if their is or is not a god, but simultaneously believe that their is no god then your not an agnostic atheist, your just an atheist that is lying to himself. Either you know or you don't, and quite frankly you don't but pretend like you do then use that pretend "knowledge"(ignorance really) as a tool to lord over others to make yourself feel special and superior to others. I am agnostic because we don't know, we probably lack the capacity to know and likely will never know whether or not their is or is not a god I however unlike yourself am not such a coward that I cannot admit to my ignorance. You are not an atheist, your just afraid to admit that you don't know and having the certainty of a answer is better then the reality that their is no answer, that's all that atheism is.

[ladsin]

You obviously didn't read. So I won't bother with you anymore. Good day

[hellionthesagereborn]

No I did, I just pointed out that your wrong. Absolute knowledge or non absolute knowledge you have neither so that's a moot argument. I've also seen enough of your posts and heard enough of your arguments to clearly determine that this is your attempt at framing your ideology as superior, that's all it has ever been and you know that. I assume its because your jaded with religion, but that doesn't mean your right, in fact it doesn't mean any one is right. Then you have your argument of it being belief, but that is not related to knowledge or truth in any way shape or form. You can believe anything, doesn't mean their is evidence for it so believing their is or is not a god requires evidence if their is no evidence then I and most agnostics will not claim they have knowledge where their is only faith. So again, your argument is wrong, as it always is. You don't think you just believe and that's where the issue lies, some of us don't believe, we require evidence.

[Plumy]

Hello, sorry though this take is quite confusing for me...
Atheism is a word that comes from the ancient Greek word atheos which literally means "without god" or "godless", prefix -a mean "without" or "not" and theos means "god", so it indicates a disciple or thought that there is no god.
Agnosticism word comes from ancient Greek too, the deriving word is agnostos, it starts with the same prefix which indicates a lack and "gnostos" (known), so it indicates a lack of knowledge not inherently about gods but about belief in general.

[ladsin]

Ugh...
We agree with those classical definitions, but I have no idea how you're saying that contests the two. A-theism= not theism, theism is a positive belief "some god exists." A-gnosticism not or without gnosis/ knowledge. This is exactly what I said above.

[Plumy]

Sorry, I didn't want to contest, I wanted to explain the definitions as I know them which seems more easy to me to understand so that if anyone else needs additional explanation, it's available here...
The take was confusing for me

[ladsin]

Which part is confusing? Is it just because I disagree with you?

[Plumy]

Inside the take there is only the definition for atheism and the first image is cut, some of the explanation is confusing for me but like you said we don't contest each other, so not disagreeing, it is like...
When a teacher explains something and the class can't understand, teacher and students aren't on the same line of understanding, maybe

[ladsin]

I gave three definitions for atheism. The picture did get cut, but I thought it'd be pretty easy to still figure it out. You're only missing like two words.
I think its more a situation where someone won't accept what you're teaching them. I've given the definition from the atheist website, and from two different dictionaries that support my definition. Then you add a definition that also agrees with mine and yet somehow you still say that you think that you get to define atheism as something different.

[Plumy]

Ah the point of the take is to establish that atheism and agnosticism are the same?
Even though by definition they are different, yes they are in relation to each other, not the same though...
Anyway sorry for contesting if it was a teaching, I didn't think it was absolute, I wanted to add detail and understand better your meaning, thanks for explaining it ✌

[ladsin]

They address to separate parts of the topic. Knowledge and belief. According to how most theists will define knowledge (something like absolute knowledge or certainty) I don't believe we can have that in regards to anything. I don't, for example, have an answer to hard solipsism other than that I don't care.

[Anonymous]

"I rather live my life believing there is a god and dying to find out there is none than living my life vice versa". Martin Luther King quoted something along those lines that once.

Yes atheism is on the rise in the past few years. I personally don't care one way or another about people's belief choices. Freedom of religon is a foundational component of the free world.

But i have noticed a growing segment of aggressive ANTI theism. It's not enough for these people to not believe. They have to take things a step further to mock, sneer and verbally attack people who do. I do have a REAL problem with that.

[ladsin]

I have no problem with the ridicule of ridiculous ideas, but I have noted that many people will be assholes. That goes for both sides. I will say however, that I'm aware of no atheist group that's trying to pass legislation to make belief illegal, whereas many theist groups are trying to legislate they're morality.

[ladsin]

Whoops, their

[Opinion Owner]

Not yet. But this attitude that "religion is poison" isn't new. The Soviet Union and communism in general had a similar approach.

[ladsin]

Did I say that religion is poison here?
Plus communist era Russia just set up their own religion.

[Opinion Owner]

No you definitely didn't say that but other people are.

Yes there are plenty of nuts, lunatics and blood thirsty fanatics have come out of religion. My theory is they would be that way anyway if they weren't religious.

But there is a growing trend of atheists that are trying to mute and stamp out Christianity. I'm already observing that where I live. My head pastor is having trouble finding ac

[Opinion Owner]

Finding places to rent for out Sunday services. We are always respectful, pay on time and clean places throughly after use. But some people don't want to rent their spaces because we are Christian organization. They don't say it out loud (yet) but we can read between the lines.

This wasn't a problem 10 or even 5 years ago.

[Opinion Owner]

*for our. It's hard to not make typos with a mobile phone lol.

[ladsin]

Same on typos.
I don't know about that, it's certainly not the case where I'm from, but obviously we don't live in the same place.

[levantine99]

agnostic people delude themselves unfortunately. in this life you either are a nihilist that uncosciously or consciously serves satan or are a servant of God. you can't serve the secular world (satan) and God at the same time. so its absolutely correct that there is no true agnostic. not even atheist. ontollogically there is only theist and antitheist. yuo can give this comment all the hate you want but truth hurts and the few that understand will know i'f i'm lying or merely speaking the reality of life.

[levantine99]

gnosticism and humanism are no different. they both serve humans' narcissism aka make us slaves to satan once again. cause whoever serves his narcissistic will, serves his sinful passions/vices, whoever serves his vices is ontollogically an enemy of God and a pawn of His enemy.

[ladsin]

Baha

[levantine99]

sorry guys. there is no true freedom or clarity away from God. this even as a thought must disturb heavily our postmodern narcissism now that we think we conquered space and all. but... such is life. people will return to their roots i believe. nihilism has to be reversed or we will end up in a cannibalistic mad max kind of dystopia if we don't stop creeping in the rabbit holee of nihilistic misanthropy and misothey.

[levantine99]

lasdin yes and i was no different. but only now, awakened by His grace i can see that. all my IQ before couldn't offer me no special insight in this. this is a revelation and opening of heart. when i served my will i served satan and didn'teven realise it. dettaching ourselves from the source of life can only lead to darkness and inevitable decay. there is no middle ground to living body and dead body. when you are dead body you feed the worms (demons). thats how life works.

[ladsin]

Oh lordy lordy! Hallelujah! https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4jQA9pjysZc/hqdefault.jpg

[levantine99]

the revolution of the human animal against divine authority is reflected in all its ways. bolshevikism was the inevitable political manifestation of the nihilist agenda denouncing all forms of authority spiritual or even secular. the ego in a frantic search of its luciferian retribution seeks to be unbound by all kinds of dreamt chains, even where there was none. most people serve the spirit of the "revolution" instead of devotion and humility and don't even know it. now we are in the nihilistic stage of the relativism of truth and of personal new agey truths and everyone is a god dialectics. but even that will soon be obsolete. and nihilism will reveal its destructive face and its true ontollogical being which is luciferian, misanthropist, and misotheist in its very core and nature.

[rskinney]

I'm an Atheist but I have a very strong sense of morals. I'm not a nihilist. I just don't believe in your imaginary friend.

[levantine99]

@rskinney morals are just nominalism. there is no ontollogy or eternal dialectic to your morality. it is a self tap on the shoulder. we are not called to be "good" in this life but divine. humanity's purpose of existence is not some lukewarm spirituality that puts boundaries around its ego and own interests and just pretends to be a shadow of its former self. if you are an atheist you are an antitheist. the spirit world transcends the material one. in the spiritual realm you are a slave of demons and not even know it. have you ever even fought with them? no, how can that be when you are on their side? they have no reason battling you. before i was saved they already owned me, and their biggest victory against me, was that i completely ingored their existence.

[levantine99]

atheist is an illusion, ontollogically there is only antitheist. even if one does it unwillingly to a degree. (although complete victimhood and completely justified ingorance don't exist)

[Valkyrie1]

Not really. Being agnostic is not believing nor disbelieving in god. There is no way to disprove there is a god but there is no way to prove there is a god either. So I'm agnostic. I can't say I believe in any of the religious forms but I tend to think its a possiblity. My opinion changes on the matter but there is no way to know beyond doubt. I can't pretend to understand anything beyond the physical. Being agnostic is much easier than telling people I'm jewish today and an athiest tomorrow. Belief is not a solid fact it changes all the time Also I just looked up Gnosticism it looks very much like a religion.

[CountessSarah]

Gnosticism, unfortunately has different meanings depending upon context. It's a bit like when creationists don't understand 'Evolution' and start talking about 'Cosmic Evolution' and all sorts of other stuff as if it's all the same theory.

[ladsin]

Belief isn't the same as knowledge.

[Valkyrie1]

Believing it is impossible to know is a belief.

[CountessSarah]

But that still doesn't make those two things the same.
One is whether you believe X is true or not.
The other is whether you believe a position of knowledge as to whether X is true or not is possible. They're both beliefs, but with regards to different questions.

[Valkyrie1]

@CountessSarah Not really it's I can't believe whether x is true or not true because I just can't.

[Valkyrie1]

Just in more words. 😌

[CountessSarah]

*sigh*
I thought 'Neat MyTake, I'm tired of seeing people misuse terms, lets see if this guy got it right and people have understood'
The responses are full of people still not understanding what words mean.
At least you tried, writer.

[ladsin]

Haha thanks. It's especially frustrating because most of the responses are just a, "you're wrong" with no argument or reasoned thought behind it. My presumption is that many aren't reading the take and just get inflamed by the title

[pickyourcliche]

Given that it's not possible to know for certain either way this side of death I consider agnostic to be the only possible thing regardless of belief in any given deity or lack of said belief. That said I think the term only works in relation to a statement of belief, otherwise it's essentially a dangling participle. I'm agnostic... about what? That's like randomly saying "I believe" during a lull in conversation, you need to state WHAT you believe in order for it to make any sense. So me, while I have beliefs about certain things, I consider myself agnostic about God, but atheistic based on my belief that there isn't one. It would be arrogant of me to say for sure but I consider based on the evidence (and lack of) it's a reasonable position. But then I'm also agnostic about reincarnation, despite believing that it's a thing, despite the evidence or lack of xD
Ultimately I'm agnostic about a lot of stuff I haven't directly experienced simply because I can't know for sure until I know.

[ladsin]

You can't both not believe, and not not believe.

[freakyzeaky]

You can be uncertain though. And it isn't always so black and white. A person might only that certain parts of a religion are true and not all of it, or might believe that parts of various religions are true but don't label or classify themselves as anything.

[ladsin]

@freakyzeaky This isn't about religion, but theism. It doesn't matter if, for example, you think the bible is bad. IF you believe a god exists then you're a theist. IF you do not accept the claim that a god exists, or do not believe then you are an atheist.
I'll try an analogy that I've been throwing around.
"I have a jar of marbles here, do you believe I have an even amount?"

[pickyourcliche]

That's the thing, gnosticism is knowing, isn't it? We can't *know*, we can only believe, in the existence or lack of a deity and such. In the marbles analogy I can believe there's an even amount, but until I *know*, I can't know. Yknow? xD

[ladsin]

You could, but as you have no evidence I would say that's an extremely unwarranted belief. I'll show you how the conversation should go and see if it helps understanding XD
"I have a jar of marbles here, do you believe I have an even amount?"
"No, I see no reason to believe that."
"Oh, so you believe there's an odd amount in here!"
"No, I don't believe that either. I see no reason to do so."

[pickyourcliche]

I see your point, but despite that some people will believe one or the other, such as those competitions to guess how many sweets are in the jar and so on. They have no reason to choose a particular number, but may still choose one. In religious terms they have belief but are still agnostic, until the correct number is given. It just seems to me that one can be agnostic while still believing something. One is belief but the other is knowledge-based, and one doesn't necessarily dictate the other (I believe, for example, in reincarnation and karma. I have no real logical reason to, and I admit the ideas can be boiled down to merely wishful thinking and consequence, yet I still hold the beliefs. I remain agnostic regarding life after death, having not died yet (though it could be argued that having my heart stop that time and being brought back, it's logical to believe in life after death, as it were xD))

[ladsin]

People are irrational sure, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be rational. Believing until they're proven wrong is a known logical fallacy

[freakyzeaky]

It is called faith, something people have been steadily losing since the time we began to take pride in our discoveries as if it was something we manifested.

[ladsin]

@freakyzeaky How do you define faith?

[freakyzeaky]

Belief in the intangible. Heck, even joy and inner peace are concepts that are not wholly tangible. Yet I believe, that our joy and inner peace as human beings IS God. We are God, once you disassociate from the ego and witness the void from which is the wellspring of our very existence. Sounds very new agey, I agree. But then, I believe Western Philosophy and Judeo-Christian religion isn't too far off from Eastern Philosophy and Spirituality. That is to say, all religion is a signpost that points to the same thing. We all pay far too much attention the signpost and not enough to what it is actually pointing to.

[ladsin]

@freakyzeaky Why call us "god" do you not think that brings about unwanted baggage?

[freakyzeaky]

No, why should it? God is essentially an enlightened being, or in this context, an enlightened /state/ of being. When a person is enlightened, he is touch with a part of himself and a truth that isn't readily apparent. This person is also a threat to others, especially because most people are controlled by their ego. The ego wants nothing more than to exist and it ceases to exist when a person sheds light on it. What does the ego thrive on? Drama, wild emotions, pain, happiness, and it comes into the back door of your mind.

At least to me, God is the state of being when you are at the utmost peace. A state of no-mind, where the noise in your head is silenced.

Imagine before the Big Bang. There were no stars, no heavenly bodies to which to measure the scale of the universe. The only thing there, was an intense presence, an unknowable void. That is what God is. And that is what is inside of us. We just need to remove the clutter to reach it.

[ladsin]

@freakyzeaky Firstly, we don't know what preceded the big bang, or if that's even a sensical question.
Secondly, beacause that's not how god has typically been defined. It seems like it could bring about unwanted baggage.

[freakyzeaky]

The ego is the unwanted baggage, God as a state of being, or rather, OUR Being, is being free of the baggage.

[0112358]

I often say I’m agnostic.

I think at one point in time I really was strictly agnostic and on the line between atheism and theism. Realistically I’ve drifted increasingly into the “atheist agnostic” camp. Though that depends on what precisely that means. If you’re asking if I believe there are extra-universal consciousnesses I’m much more pure agnostic. If you’re asking if I think everything in any specific religion is correct I’m very very skeptical. Since I’m much more strongly agnostic than atheist and because my path to where I am involved a strong movement towards agnosticism and a much milder drift to atheism that’s sort of why I describe myself that way. I could imagine becoming an agnostic theist.

[ladsin]

OK then

[JesseEllyson]

Sorry, but your basic premise is faulty. Atheists believe there is no god just as fervently as theists believe there is a god. Agnostics simply believe there is no proof either way. God may exist but theists can prove it. God may not exist but atheists can't prove it. Our own personal beliefs on the existence of a god or gods has no bearing on our acceptance that there can be no proof.

Saying that atheists and agnostics are the same simply because they are similar is like saying that Christians and Muslims are the same because they are also similar. In fact, Christians and Muslims have more in common with each other than atheists and agnostics.

It seems to bother you that no one agrees with your thesis. But this is because your thesis is wrong. You might as well argue that the numbers 47 and 74 are the same. You could defend the point till you were blue in the face but you would still be wrong.

[JulieXO]

Nice take. I always thought it was common knowledge that atheism and agnosticism are not the same thing.

[ladsin]

You'd be surprised

[WiggleWasser]

No. Most people think that agnosticism and atheism are just two different points on the same linear scale. Not realizing that the two things are addressing completely different subjects (knowledge vs belief).

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Man, you people are so complicated.

Look, dude.

Pick your position.

Either you accept 100% a divine creator exist, if no, then you're a athiest.

If not sure or undecided a divine creator exist then you are agnostic.

See, how simple that is?

[ladsin]

Yeah, you're wrong. You don't understand the terms and probably didn't read the take.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I read the whole thing. Yeah, and you are right that I don't understand the "Terms" y'all are so damn confusing.

[ladsin]

It's pretty simple. Knowledge and belief aren't the same. Case closed.

[Anonymous]

This is serious bs. The word theist represents belief in a god. Therefore an Atheist must hsve the belief that there is NO god, hense the "A". Agnostics are in the middle because they lack belief. Meaning they don't have the belief that there is one or there isn't. They don't think there is sufficient evidence to predict either side. Instead of being an atheist and saying, "no, there is no afterlife", we decide to wait till we die and see what happens. There is just as much chance as there being an afterlife as fade to black in my opinion.

[D_Bone_Steak]

https://youtu.be/_g0mr8oF0Ho

I just want to mind fuck someone.

[Nivinxus]

@D_Bone_Steak If i could upvote comments... I would give you one.

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Nivinxus Dude... just that video's thumbnail. That's an upvote for mindfuckery.

[WiggleWasser]

Not quite, babycakes. The "A" in atheist means "no." As in "no belief." It doesn't mean I'm saying a deity doesn't exist, it just means I don't believe it. Same with the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot. They might very well exist. But I don't believe they do. Maybe you should reread Ladsin's MyTake. He's absolutely correct, and made his point very well.

[Opinion Owner]

I dont think any of you even understood my reply. An atheist denies god completely. An agnostic believes that no one on this Earth can say that there is a god, and nobody on this Earth can say that there isn't one. Only once we are beyond the grave can we know. So there!

[D_Bone_Steak]

Whoosh. Nothing but net, except it didn't go inside the hoop.

[WiggleWasser]

@AnimaLover_17 I'm not denying anyting cupcake. I'm saying I do not believe In an invisible Sky man. Just as I don't believe in flying saucers. But I am open to valid evidence that could change my mind. Unfortunately, such evidence has never been presented for either.

[jacquesvol]

Agnosticism is better accepted than atheism in many societies. The result of a 2000+ yr old war and brainwashing against pagans and heathens.

[ladsin]

Yuh, that's certainly something I've noticed. One fellow tried to say that he contemporaneously believes both that god does not exist and god does exist. Like he's trying to satisfy both camps XD

[jacquesvol]

In a recent attack question about how 'stupid' atheists are , I asked the girl if she believed in the 3000 gods she rejects because of her belief and if she can't understand that I reject her god for the same reason.
She answered she could believe in more than one god. (Completely against her religion thus.)
A clear case of Dunning-Kruger.

[ladsin]

Is that the lady who was pretty arrogant, and consistently said that atheists have to prove that no god exists?

[jacquesvol]

I guess it's that one, indeed.
Believers are so full of themselves: anyone outside their church MUST be converted , if they can't, the other is dumb, of course. I met this kind of people since elementary school, in real life too.

[ladsin]

My college is a public school and made me pray. I'm fairly certain that I could sue over that 😂

[jacquesvol]

@ladsin Try that in the US of G-W Bush , Donald Trump and Betsy Devos. Success. :D

[ladsin]

Haha I mean... I think I could pull it off. The end of the prayer was -"In the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior" then a little addendum was added that that portion was optional, but the first part "Almighty god our source of light and strength" wasn't optional XD

[jacquesvol]

Do you recognize this? c8.alamy.com/.../...-on-one-dollar-bill-B6961A.jpg

[ladsin]

Haha yeah, added in the 50s

[jacquesvol]

An Eisenhower administration idea.

[ladsin]

Interesting fella

[jacquesvol]

I like his farewell address

[jacquesvol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWiIYW_fBfY

[jacquesvol]

Harry S. Truman (1884–1972)
QUOTATION: When contemplating General Eisenhower winning the Presidential election, Truman said, “He’ll sit here, and he’ll say, ‘Do this! Do that!’ And nothing will happen. Poor Ike—it won’t be a bit like the Army. He’ll find it very frustrating.”

[jacquesvol]

www.azquotes.com/.../...obert-scheer-156-69-16.jpg

[Alessus]

Fair enough I suppose, but the common understanding of saying "I'm agnostic" is that "I'm an agnostic atheist." instead of "I'm an agnostic theist." so for me saying "I'm agnostic" is usually enough. Most people I've talked to understand it that way anyway, while still being fully aware of the agnostic/gnostic and atheist/theist positions.

[AnimaLover_17]

I can't say that I'm I am an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist, because I am literally smack dab in the middle. I am very very open to afterlife possibilities and the possibility of the universe being by design through God's power. I would probably prefer there be an actual designated place to go then it be fade to black. There is no way that I could pick a side until after I am beyond the grave. And that's that

[ladsin]

@AnimaLover_17 you aren't, because atheism is not a claim that no gods exist. You can't be smack dav between, "I believe i have two legs" and "Im not convinced I have two legs"

I've never heard people make the assumption that agnostic means agnostic atheist. Everyone seems to think that belief and knowledge are the same thing, but they're not

[Alessus]

Must be a U. S thing then, because at least from personal experience when someone says that they are an agnostic, everyone around here assumes it means agnostic atheist, rather than agnostic theist and I've heard no one honestly think that faith and knowledge are the exact same thing. If someone does, I'd immidiately think that they are either ignorant or a fanatic.

[Alessus]

@AnimaLover_17 Personally I'd classify you as more of an agnostic theist then, because I'd say you lean more towards faith and god/gods than not.

[ladsin]

I don't know that it's a US thing, for example the lady above just demonstrated my point. She thinks that agnosticism is neutral ground between two claims, but it's not.

[Alessus]

I disagree with you on that. What she said was that "I can't say that I am an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist, because I am literally smack dab in the middle." which would seem to indicate that she considers herself to be agnostic, because she is not sure whether or not there is a god/gods, but she doesn't consider herself to lean on either side of agnosticism, atheist or theist, but instead is on some line that is supposed to be right in the middle. I would personally classify her as an agnostic theist, but that is simply my opinion on the matter, due to the rest of the things she wrote and because I don't think that someone can be "in the middle" when it comes to the debate of atheist or theist inside agnosticism itself.

[ladsin]

Again she's only making the assumption that atheism and theism are two opposite propositions. Using my jar of marbles analogy. There is no middle ground between I believe even and not even. She's attacking two prongs of argument. Even and odd, not even and not even.

[Anonymous]

I say I am a Christian, but I don't believe every word the Bible says.

I actually believe, Jesus existed indeed (after all there are many historians of the era, who admit His existence), but I believe He was under some possession by the outer space. In other words, Jesus was used as an experiment, in order to see if the Earthians (us), are ready to accept superhuman powers. As it seems, they weren't ready for it, since they crucified Him, so they might try it again another time, like after 2000-2100 years or so. He could step down from the Cross, but since His mission failed, He decided to go back to some starship.

And yes, the Angels, like the one who visited Virgin Mary and told her about her impregnation was an alien being. So Virgin Mary as well was semi-possesed since She gave birth to Jesus.

[ladsin]

Bahaha XD