Is Believing in Heaven Just Wishful Thinking?

[CT_CD]

Is believing in Heaven merely a form of "wishful thinking"?

Yes

No

[PrincessPie]

Well there is no proof so yes, but I can understand why some people beileve in life after death.

[samhradh_leannan]

Very possibly.

[Revolver_]

It's exactly that

[Revolver_]

bobs and vagene

[LegateLanius]

Indeed

[LegateLanius]

mho?

[ladsin]

It's the carrot in the carrot and stick equation.

[Fire_Fly]

I think believing in heaven is more of a comfort than anything, when you think of death it’s literally you just being dead, you’re nothing but a mass of flesh and bones no longer existing all that really happens is that you get put in the ground to rot or you get cremated.

But when you think of heaven you think of big white fluffy clouds, laughter, smiling faces, big giant golden gates, seeing the loved ones that you have missed, while it’s a brighter side to the cruel reality it’s much better to think about death as a happier experience than what it really is right?

[tangerinefan1050]

You know what else has no evidence for its existence? Yourself. But I choose to believe that you exist. Is that just wishful thinking of my part? You tell me.

When I'm sleeping and have a dream, I occasionally come across people that do not exist. But while I'm in that dream, I believe everything that happens in there is actually happening for real and everything in there is reality. How could I know any better? By being outside of that dream. I have that ability by waking up, and that's how I know nothing that happens in my dreams are actually real (I may even see people that I know IRL in there, but they didn't ever do what I saw they doing while dreaming).

How do you know this reality itself isn't as fake as a dream? The answer is that you can't. It's an axiom. A hypothesis that everyone believes without proof. We have many of those.

[tangerinefan1050]

By the way, the hope of a Christian is to be reunited with Christ and be wherever He is (or at least it should). It's not about a concern with a specific place. Nonetheless, the idea that a Christian's citizenship is in Heaven is, indeed, biblical.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No sir. The lord Jesus Christ isn't a liar. There is a heaven (New Earth) for the righteous where they will live forever.

The New Earth. Eternal Life. And What Will We Do. ↗

[Gianna17]

No, it's completely fine to believe whatever you want to believe. No one knows what happens after death, so you can't say for sure that it doesn't exist. As long as you aren't hurting anyone or using your own beliefs to justify hatred then there is nothing wrong with it.

[readywriter]

No, heaven exist and everyone who has lived can go there. There is a lot of historical evidence in Jesus and the old testament. It will not satisfy some people so you do have to be open to evidence. It's not foolish. I believe in heaven just as I believe in hell.

[Tomblebee]

So to go to heaven you can't commit suicide? So if you believe in heaven you are waiting for something better? So if you don't believe in heaven you know this is as good as it is getting? So why wouldn't you commit suicide? I am confused.

[Anon85]

I'm sure for some people it is just wishful thinking. Others have their faith and reasons to believe it.

As a Christian myself, I've gone through periods in my life where I almost didn't want it to be true.

[Tim-loves-it]

I believe in Heaven, and now that I have heard this song, not only does it bring happy tears to my eyes, thats what I hope for!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBjeDMsNehs

[AditiSaasha]

Heaven and hell are a conceptualised theory of a better or a worst life in the next birth. You do good and you be born again to a better and easier life , do bad you be born as the ones who suffer !

[CarpetDenim]

Maybe, but religious people shouldn't be shamed for having faith.

[EllezBellez98]

Absolutely, don't criticise the people. But you should be allowed to criticise the ideas.

[CarpetDenim]

Yeah, just don't think less of people or declare yourself intellectually superior to those who do follow a religion.

[Lovemycountryboy]

No it not wishful thinking it is completely a fact that heaven is real

[TheUglyMonk]

Can you show me proof for it?

[katsandbats]

Heaven isn't real. Its a made up thing to make dying people or death seem not scary

[TheUglyMonk]

@katsandbats Even if it doesn't exist it serves a great purpose in my eyes, it provides a sense of hope and relief.

[Rainie_]

Of course it is. Im hearing people saying how they will meet their cat or doggo in heaven... Ummm? Im sorry but thats not happening.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

Its scientifically there, Albert Einstein touched base on inter-dimensional worlds in relevance to ours.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

https://youtu.be/v4e9udMCndA

there's also a book / movie called Flatland in which a mathmetician revealed how hard it is to fully perceive higher dimensions, though they really exist.

Like pac-man is 2D, if we as a 3D being passed through his world, he would only see parts of us, hear our voice, or we could manipulate things in his world miraculously, but easily to us.

Heaven is in a higher dim, but the beings there past through dimensional boundaries easily.

We just created stereotypical ideas, like angels having wings, when angels are depicted as crossing dimensions into ours and even God appearing as a human lol

Its neat stuff

[Deathraider]

Yeah, where did Einstein ever mention life after death. Look, just because multiple dimensions exist, doesn't mean afterlife exist.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

No no silly, Einstein just touched base on the diff dimensions which allowes science to voyage into the plausibility of other realms of existence - its pretty cool. Life exists in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dimension, why not the 4th, 5th and beyond?

Find it odd to "fish bowl" reality - there's an entire ocean afterall. Science is fantastic for pushing the boundaries of what we perceive as "fact."

I dunno why some people claim to accept it, but refuse to push beyond possibilities as scientists do?

[Deathraider]

Okay, but the thing is that entropy exist. It's a statistical law. So eventually, everything that constitute as you will die.

Well because if you start speculating, then you don't know if it's true. I could claim reincarnation is real also. Claims are one thing, but to regard them as true is fallacious.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

Not a claim as its observable - like Evolutionary Theory.

Some try to argue evolution for the facets we dont fully comprehend (yet,) such as the common ancestor being speculated as maybe some type of micro organisms. In truth, these micro organisms have never been identified; even if they are, it leaves more speculation in determining how said organisms came to be - which branches off into astronomical research into the speculation of organic matter being delivered to the earth via asteroids.

Then one speculates where that organic matter formed at in the distant universe, and thus we are just staring at the sky speculating about everything.

To not speculate is to "fish bowl," which is basically confining reality into a small realm according to ones own perception - even if something as sound as science determines otherwise.

Like when religious people insist against Evolution; they "fish bowl" even their own beleifs / gods lol

But we will focus on proof

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

1.) Perceiving dimensions

A higher dimension contains variables that do not exist in lower dimensions - thus they are tangible but not directly perceivable.

Simply:

In the 2D world, variables X, Y exist.
In the 3D world, variables X, Y, and Z exist.

"Z" is a real physicality in 3D representing depth, but to a 2D being, Z does not exist in their dimension, but is a very real aspect of physics in a higher dimension 3D.

* A 2D being may not believe in variable "Z," but that doesn't mean variable Z doesn't exist - thats "fish bowling" which binds everything only according to the 2D beings "reality," which is actually coexisting with a bigger reality.

2D people can easily indirectly perceive 3D variable Z through mathematics and physics which is how Einstein touched base on the 4D.

Thing is, 4D has variables XYZ and W- we can't directly perceive W, but can indirectly observe it via physics. (Tesseract as an example)

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

2.) Higher dims allow superiority over the physics of other dims

Simply:

A 3D being can easily manipulate the "world" of a 2D being, due to the new variable of that dim.

Our depth variable Z, allows us to easily perceive lower dimensions and interact with them. However, to a 2D being, they could not make sense of what is happening in their "world," as a 3D person messed with it.

For us, jumping perpendicular to our plane is basic, but of a 2D being were to be pulled out into 3D, without any material change, their "innards would spill out," as scientifically stated.

A 3D being messing with the 2D world, would be seen as a "miraculous event." Like if you reached into Pac Man and put him "above" the ghosts - to them pac man just vanished completely, but the dots are still being eaten by him.

Pac man didn't disappear - he is just materialized in the dimension above theirs.

Matter can transfer inter-dimensionally, we are working out the kinks on that to this very day

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

3.) Observing "beings" in 4D

This is the hot part of this entire study, in which the Klein Bottle Model is used to help us get an idea of what a 4D person would appear as, what their world would be like on a very very very severely basic level lol

Akin to a 2D being saying that a 3D being would be able to intersect the variables X and Y simultaneously without passing through their own matter. We get it as depth, but to a world with no depth, its an indirect mathematical observation.

Perceivable, but not the full shabang of literally seeing a 3D being or world in action.

Same with us - 4D is there, indirectly, because how do you perceive a person "able to pass through themselves without crossing their own perpendicular planes?"

Whats pecuilar is the fact that a 4D being would easily pass through and manipulate our world with us either not realizing or noticing indirectly or "miraculously."

Splitting the red sea? Easy for a higher dim being.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

That said, the jump to "heaven" being these higher dimensions lies in the materilization of 4D beings into our 3D world, and studying how even our matter can transfer into higher dimensions. That requires a lot of study which if you have time, is very easily explained via science, history, and the evidence of "spiritual beings" incarnating into the 3D.

We dont fully grasp 'how' like a 2D being wouldn't a 3D beings "incarnation," just from lack of knowledge. Akin to not understanding how rain falls as a child, only to realize the complexity of that entire, very real system later.

Simply put, we only grasp 6% of what is known, and pust the boundaries to get ahold of the other 94%.

Lol now we are getting into the fun innovative science where indirectly perceived observations are grasped, refined and codified into reality.

Explaining the "heaven" part is easy but elaborate as there are more gears running to produce the big picture.

Can pm me if you really care lol

[Deathraider]

That doesn't mean life after death. Death is simply the cease of biological processes. And your biology is about chemical reactions happening. Undergoing these chemical reaction means entropy increases. You don't die of age, you die of the effects of aging. Your body is a machine left to work. Over time, it'll break down.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

Connecting the afterlife to the dimensions is a matter of understanding the "soul."

Even machines need energy to run.

The most outstanding proof of the soul is the way 4D+ beings incarnate into our world, just as the 3D sphere entered the 2D world in the video.

Your body dies, but the energy powering our "machine" changes form.

Like pac man being pulled into 3D - to the 2D world, he just ceases to exist, but in truth he is still very much alive.

[Deathraider]

There is an energy source. The Sun allows the plant to grow. It turns the Sun's energy into chemical energy. We eat the plant and we use that chemical energy for mechanical energy. That energy is then turn into heat and radiates out into the universe.

What does it mean to be alive? So far, the best explanation has to be that consciousness is an emergent property. I mean if our brain dies, as far as we know, what we constitute as self also dies.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

that's where this whole thing about the body losing a strange amount of mass has been researched in during death. They calculate the potential energy kinetic energy chemical energy that the body would normally release upon death but have continuously kept finding the strange amount of energy in mass that the corpse loses.

I'm a bit skeptical about that one only because there are so many other things that could be contributing to that. Just haven't been pinpointed yet.

Interestingly enough lies these strange encounters that mankind has had with extraterrestrial or "spiritual beings" for centuries, documented in several ancient cultures.

Its one thing if its just one people, but a constant record of unexplained encounters that all share this theme of "other world people," amongst thousands of civilizations is astonishing, which is why branches of science exist specifically for researching these.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

It's a 3rd dimensional being where to go into a two-dimensional world the only way that a two-dimensional being would be able to fully perceive us is if we appeared as a two-dimensional being as well for us to go into the second dimension is not a problem but for a second dimensional being to go into the third dimension is near impossible because the second dimensional being would have to convert their matter in order to adjust to the physicalities with their dimensional world. It's not surprising then that in discovering the fourth dimension in the dimensions beyond that there would be life in these Dimensions as well which is why a lot of research into the dimensions has been done up until today. I think it's particularly interesting that extraterrestrials have been associated with dimensions as if it's a hint lol

Problem is, who would believe an alien from mars, who changes his form to appear in our dim?

We would think he is crazy for our lack of perception

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

Just as the claim to the Earth's roundness was scoffed at because humans then, could not comprehend us living on a floating ball.

Though there are pictures of the earth, people still argue that - which shows the trouble "fish bowling" causes.

We are in the process of uncovering more to our reality - the relevance of higher dims topped with these consistent reported encounters for thousands of years are like a dim light shining from a house we didn't think was there.

I connect it to heaven through the bizarre string of the Judeo Christian God incarnating into the 3D, which eerily syncronizes with the existence and physicalities of higher dimensional worlds.

In fact a lot of religions speak of "gods" incarnating into the 3D across the board, which means something indirectly has been perceived for a long time of human history.

Then of course you have to fuss around in which god/goddess it is, which is another can of worms lol

[Deathraider]

Yeah. First reason could be that the loss of mass is due to a natural part of decaying. perhaps the bacteria is slowly consuming the body and releasing out CO2.
Glucose+Oxygen-------->Water+chemical energy+CO2

Strange encounters. Do we have well documented and verifiable evidence?

Okay, but how have we not observe these phenomenon?

Which specific paper are you referring to for Einstein's work?

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

Right, thats why I thought it strange to conclude that the loss of mass was the "soul," too many variables.

Yes the "encounters" have been documented way into the neanderthal times, ancient Egypt, China, Greece, Babylon, Rome - depictions of "spiritual" or et beings. We were watching a video in Art History about ancient "religions" and how it influenced cultures. Odd that peoples who lived well across the world depicted the same fundamental idea of "spirits."
Whats even more strange is that in our age of so much technology, the "spiritual" or ET world is still presently addressed.
This touches bases on Einsteins 4D as "time," which was the foundation for exploring further theories into 4D. Its a bit complicated but if you study that and also about the tesseract and klein bottle, you'll see a dim picture coming together.

Gosh the 4D time thing is amazing.
www.google.com/.../21675-time-travel.html

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

Im sorry its broken up into pieces, each topic is its own area of study, like how you need letters, numbers and pictures to fully comprehend complex ideas.

These are just elaborate scientific theories / historical accounts with enough proof to be observable. You can find lots of scholarly articles, the TedEd video is a fundamental start if Einsteins findings are a bit much too digest.

Im sorry I can't show you a soul persay, the soul would in theory have its origins in another dimension, making it indirectly observable.

I can explain to you how to "see it," if you are really curious. Thing about the soul, is that we fish bowled it into some magical thing lol Its just a variable of reality like "W" we have to indirectly perceive through its strange interaction with our 3D reality

[Deathraider]

There's a difference between spatial dimension and temporal dimension. They're not the same meaning of 4D. That's an equivocation fallacy.

I'd like evidence. Look, a ton of people in the past believed other things like flat earth. What do these belief all have in common? The lack of evidence.

[oOsecret_starlandsOo]

@Deathraider

Spatial dimension and temporal dimension are different topics in the same 4D realm, its not like its either time or spatial, temporal describes how different time would effect the 4D world, and spatial is more of the physical aspects.

Hence why there is both spatial and temporal research on the same matter. Its like studying the astronomy of our 3D reality, and also studying biological life here. Not that 3D is only exclusive to biology, or astrony, but both are pieces of the bigger picture.

Time and spatial are the easier angles to study first, as these things can be reasoned with numerically. A lot harder to explain biological 4D concepts without more in depth understanding of the complexities on how time and spatial variables would affect matter.

As in, how can a 2D person scientifically perceive a 3D being only knowing time goes forward in our dim and there's variable "Z" that represents a mathematical truth indirectly perceivable? Observable but hard to figure

[Deathraider]

Mathematicians and physicist differentiate spatial dimension and time dimension in a simple way. We can move in X Y and Z. And we can also move in directions -X -Y -Z. We're also constantly moving through time T. But as far as we know, we can't go -T. Time is a temporal dimension. A 4th spatial dimension would be W. We can move in -W direction also.

It gets crazier, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. One of the main key importance is that these equations don't imply life after death. Life is simply biological processes ceasing. The second law of thermodynamics takes it's toll and everything eventually, basically dies off.

And current theories of higher spatial dimension propose these dimensions are smaller than subatomic particles. Think about this. If you had an ant on a rope and you stood far away, you would just need one number to describe where the ant is. The length. But if you zoom up, now you need 3 numbers to describe where the ant is. Still a hypothesis right now.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if heaven as we think of it exists, but I’ve personally had experiences with dying people saying things that were impossible to explain any other way than there is some type of afterlife. Like wild predicting the future type things.

[CubsterShura]

Tbh heaven doesn't exist would rather be wishful thinking for me. Heaven isn't so cheap to get. I wish it was though.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

You're contradicting yourself. Lol... You say it doesn't exist yet managed to say it isn't cheap to get.. Which one is it?

[CubsterShura]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy I never said heaven doesn't exist. You didn't understand what I mean.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Oh ok. Just a mishap.

[TheIceCreamQueen]

Abdool thinking he'll find a SO is wishful thinking

[lilmissumshine]

My family has been saying the world was going to end since I was two 😂. so yes it's wishful thinking

[claw09]

Pretty much. There's no justification for its existence. In fact, the idea of heaven exists in spite and against evidence.

[hasrett]

I don't think so because if you believe in Heaven you believe in Hell too, and who would want Hell.