Name: What is atheism? The 3 main types of atheism and their religious equivalents
Uploaded: 2015-11-24T04:07:14Z
Description: On here and in real life I've come across quite a few people that have misunderstood what atheism was. A lot of people seem to think that an...

zagor

Master Age: 39

3.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Hitler wasn't a Christian - sorry, going to Sunday School as a boy doesn't count. He wanted to supplant Christianity with his own personality cult, but decided he had to tolerate it for the time to accommodate public opinion. Stalin, on the other hand, had studied for the priesthood as a young man.

QuestionMan

+1 y
Hitler was not an atheist. He said himself that religion was an important part of morality and that he couldn't stand atheists.

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zagor

+1 y
He wasn't a Christian. At no point did he himself profess any such inclinations. He criticized atheists because a) they were associated with the communists he despised and b) he wanted a mysticism associated with his own persona. He didn't want to worship Christ, he wanted to replace him.

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ladsin

+1 y
He said he was finishing the work of Jesus Christ, and on the belt of every SS guard was written (in German) "god is with us" yeah... Nowhere near christian lol

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heavensgift2girls

+1 y
Hitler actually had some pretty strong ties to the church. You can argue Hitler didn't really believe in God, but he did make claims of being Christian. In fact many of his policies are based on the Christian views of the day. Jews being seen as the ones that murdered Christ, his attack on the homosexuals, his banning of abortions. At the very least Hitler was using Christianity to justify his actions.

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zagor

+1 y
@ladsin Where did he say that? At what point as an adult did he attend a Christian church on a regular basis? References please.

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zagor

+1 y
@heavensgift2girls What were his ties? His attacks on homosexuals weren't based on religion, they were based on his aesthetic view of morality - women belonged at home making babies ( who were due the state), abortion (except, of course, among those not worthy of life) eliminated potential soldiers of the master race.

He used everything to justify his actions. If he was such a good Christian why were there barracks in Dachau dedicated to clergy? Since most/many Germans paid at least lip service to either Catholicism or a Protestant denomination, he never moved directly against either institution. Even he had to make concessions to public opinion - the T-4 program of killing the mentally and physically handicapped was officially dropped after public opinion turned against it (due in part to false rumors that it was going to be used against those incapacitated in the war in Russia), though it continued to be encouraged among the physicians who supported the policy.

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heavensgift2girls

+1 y
https://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm That goes into some detail about it if you click on the links. If you are a politician you kinda have to kiss butt, but it can't be denied that he had ties to the church, and commonly made references about God in his speeches.

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zagor

+1 y
@heavensgift2girls This link is absurd! "He professed his Christian beliefs". Well, he was trying to take power in a country that was largely Christian. "He burned synagogues but not churches", see previous sentence; do I really even have to answer that one? In case you (or he) didn't notice: JESUS WAS A JEW! There actually WERE a lot of Christians who opposed Hitler; they either kept their opinions to themselves, or wound up in places like Dachau.

As far at the racial supremacy thing goes, the Nazi's used pseudo-science, not religion, as the basis for their claims. Thus the cranial measurements and other nonsense.

The only linking of Hitler with Nietzsche that I have seen is with the "Uberman" concept. And there is no doubt that his racial ideas built on the idea that the "Aryan" race was in fact the Superman as described therein.

Anyway, if you read the section under "Myth 2" in the link you provided, it becomes immediately clear

Reply
zagor

+1 y
that the author is much more concerned with trying to protect his point than with any historical accuracy. "If Hitler acted as a pretend Christian, then were does he disown his belief in Christ?". He did so by his own actions and speech. Anybody can say anything. Why would Hitler say anything that might disenchant his supporters? I would LOVE to debate the author of this piece, who picks and chooses to try and support his rather obvious goals, rather than offering a rational and objective analysis.

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heavensgift2girls

+1 y
I think you are mistaken about what point I was trying to make. My point was that he had ties to the church and claimed to be a Christian. We know those things are true. There is no way to know if those things was because he was a politician and telling people what they wanted to hear or actually believed those things.

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ladsin

+1 y
@zagor
I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5
What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

Etc etc. but based on your conversation with @heavensgift2girls you already knew he had ties to Christianity and to the church, but instead ignore that because he doesn't agree with your version of Christianity.

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zagor

+1 y
@ladsin Those are generic comments about a creator. I didn't say he was an atheist, I said he wasn't a Christian. His beliefs had more of a peculiar blend of predestination (which is not a Christian belief) and humanism - he clearly believed in genetic variance in qualitative terms. Did he continue to pay lip service to Christianity? Yes, but as he achieved greater power he felt less need to make these references intended to assure the public who held legitimate concerns about his intentions.

Note that in the persecution of Jews, religion was irrelevant to the Nazi's. Unlike the Spanish Inquisitors of previous times, they didn't want to convert Jews but to kill them. It was perceived genetic qualities they hated.

The Jehovah's Witnesses (a CHRISTIAN sect) were also persecuted (but not necessarily exterminated) but could gain freedom by swearing allegiance to the state.

From the diary of Goebbels: Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity."[

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ladsin

+1 y
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As
a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have
the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is
anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is
the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I hav

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ladsin

+1 y
Etc etc. let me know if you need the rest of the quote.

Reply
zagor

+1 y
@ladsin In 1922 he had no real power and was trying to win converts. Of course he had to shape his anti-semitic views in a way that was acceptable to a country in which over 90% of the population identified as Christian! Have you never encountered a salesman? If he had spoken out against religion the Nazi's never would have came close to achieving power. And in this speech he is clearly identifying himself as a Christ-like figure.

He did not attend religious services as an adult. Granted, many people who are devoutly religious avoid organized religion, as he did. But there is no evidence to suggest that he was of that mind.

So to summarize, in public speeches (especially when he was still gaining power) he identified with Christianity. Yet in private, among those who knew him and wrote about it, there is nothing at all to suggest he did anything other than use it to achieve his own ends. After he achieves power such quotes seem to vanish, though he made many speeches.

Reply
ladsin

+1 y
No evidence except what he said, his followers said, his followers believed, and the uniform his soldiers wore.

Reply
zagor

+1 y
@ladsin And that is why he made statements like this regarding the Christian churches:

"I'll make these damned parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews."

Martin Bormann wanted Christianity banned and the churches disbanded. Would Hitler have accepted him as his closest advisor if he held sincere beliefs in the legitimacy of the religion?

As to why he didn't ban it, probably two reasons: One, practical political reasons. And two, his beloved mother had been a devout Catholic, so acting directly against that institution would have in a way been dishonoring his mother's memory.

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ladsin

+1 y
Perhaps I sound like a broken record, but he said what he said. It's hard to tell what people believe unless they are asked.

All that this argument is showing is that he is not internally coherent. At one point it appears as though he is Christian and at another point it appears as though he is not. You can't just pick and choose (although I may be slightly guilty of this I admit).
Lastly, he said the god of the jews. Obviously he wouldn't worship the god of the jews. They denied Jesus remember?

Reply
zagor

+1 y
@ladsin Yes, I have to agree, it is hard to tell the true thoughts of the long dead. He did grow up with a Catholic mother and so presumably had some attachment to the dogma. On the other hand, his cohorts never seem to have mentioned any particular religious beliefs he seemed to espouse, other than his obviously inflated self-esteem.

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zagor Follow
Master Age: 39

+1 y
3.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Hitler wasn't a Christian - sorry, going to Sunday School as a boy doesn't count. He wanted to supplant Christianity with his own personality cult, but decided he had to tolerate it for the time to accommodate public opinion. Stalin, on the other hand, had studied for the priesthood as a young man.

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19 Reply
- QuestionMan
  
  +1 y
  Hitler was not an atheist. He said himself that religion was an important part of morality and that he couldn't stand atheists.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  He wasn't a Christian. At no point did he himself profess any such inclinations. He criticized atheists because a) they were associated with the communists he despised and b) he wanted a mysticism associated with his own persona. He didn't want to worship Christ, he wanted to replace him.
  
- ladsin
  
  +1 y
  He said he was finishing the work of Jesus Christ, and on the belt of every SS guard was written (in German) "god is with us" yeah... Nowhere near christian lol
  
- heavensgift2girls
  
  +1 y
  Hitler actually had some pretty strong ties to the church. You can argue Hitler didn't really believe in God, but he did make claims of being Christian. In fact many of his policies are based on the Christian views of the day. Jews being seen as the ones that murdered Christ, his attack on the homosexuals, his banning of abortions. At the very least Hitler was using Christianity to justify his actions.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @ladsin Where did he say that? At what point as an adult did he attend a Christian church on a regular basis? References please.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @heavensgift2girls What were his ties? His attacks on homosexuals weren't based on religion, they were based on his aesthetic view of morality - women belonged at home making babies ( who were due the state), abortion (except, of course, among those not worthy of life) eliminated potential soldiers of the master race.
  
  He used everything to justify his actions. If he was such a good Christian why were there barracks in Dachau dedicated to clergy? Since most/many Germans paid at least lip service to either Catholicism or a Protestant denomination, he never moved directly against either institution. Even he had to make concessions to public opinion - the T-4 program of killing the mentally and physically handicapped was officially dropped after public opinion turned against it (due in part to false rumors that it was going to be used against those incapacitated in the war in Russia), though it continued to be encouraged among the physicians who supported the policy.
  
- heavensgift2girls
  
  +1 y
  https://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm That goes into some detail about it if you click on the links. If you are a politician you kinda have to kiss butt, but it can't be denied that he had ties to the church, and commonly made references about God in his speeches.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @heavensgift2girls This link is absurd! "He professed his Christian beliefs". Well, he was trying to take power in a country that was largely Christian. "He burned synagogues but not churches", see previous sentence; do I really even have to answer that one? In case you (or he) didn't notice: JESUS WAS A JEW! There actually WERE a lot of Christians who opposed Hitler; they either kept their opinions to themselves, or wound up in places like Dachau.
  
  As far at the racial supremacy thing goes, the Nazi's used pseudo-science, not religion, as the basis for their claims. Thus the cranial measurements and other nonsense.
  
  The only linking of Hitler with Nietzsche that I have seen is with the "Uberman" concept. And there is no doubt that his racial ideas built on the idea that the "Aryan" race was in fact the Superman as described therein.
  
  Anyway, if you read the section under "Myth 2" in the link you provided, it becomes immediately clear
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  that the author is much more concerned with trying to protect his point than with any historical accuracy. "If Hitler acted as a pretend Christian, then were does he disown his belief in Christ?". He did so by his own actions and speech. Anybody can say anything. Why would Hitler say anything that might disenchant his supporters? I would LOVE to debate the author of this piece, who picks and chooses to try and support his rather obvious goals, rather than offering a rational and objective analysis.
  
- heavensgift2girls
  
  +1 y
  I think you are mistaken about what point I was trying to make. My point was that he had ties to the church and claimed to be a Christian. We know those things are true. There is no way to know if those things was because he was a politician and telling people what they wanted to hear or actually believed those things.
  
- ladsin
  
  +1 y
  @zagor
  I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
  - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
  Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
  - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5
  What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
  - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8
  
  Etc etc. but based on your conversation with @heavensgift2girls you already knew he had ties to Christianity and to the church, but instead ignore that because he doesn't agree with your version of Christianity.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @ladsin Those are generic comments about a creator. I didn't say he was an atheist, I said he wasn't a Christian. His beliefs had more of a peculiar blend of predestination (which is not a Christian belief) and humanism - he clearly believed in genetic variance in qualitative terms. Did he continue to pay lip service to Christianity? Yes, but as he achieved greater power he felt less need to make these references intended to assure the public who held legitimate concerns about his intentions.
  
  Note that in the persecution of Jews, religion was irrelevant to the Nazi's. Unlike the Spanish Inquisitors of previous times, they didn't want to convert Jews but to kill them. It was perceived genetic qualities they hated.
  
  The Jehovah's Witnesses (a CHRISTIAN sect) were also persecuted (but not necessarily exterminated) but could gain freedom by swearing allegiance to the state.
  
  From the diary of Goebbels: Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity."[
  
- ladsin
  
  +1 y
  “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
  fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
  by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
  summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
  not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
  and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
  at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
  Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
  against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
  deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
  that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As
  a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have
  the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is
  anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is
  the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I hav
  
- ladsin
  
  +1 y
  Etc etc. let me know if you need the rest of the quote.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @ladsin In 1922 he had no real power and was trying to win converts. Of course he had to shape his anti-semitic views in a way that was acceptable to a country in which over 90% of the population identified as Christian! Have you never encountered a salesman? If he had spoken out against religion the Nazi's never would have came close to achieving power. And in this speech he is clearly identifying himself as a Christ-like figure.
  
  He did not attend religious services as an adult. Granted, many people who are devoutly religious avoid organized religion, as he did. But there is no evidence to suggest that he was of that mind.
  
  So to summarize, in public speeches (especially when he was still gaining power) he identified with Christianity. Yet in private, among those who knew him and wrote about it, there is nothing at all to suggest he did anything other than use it to achieve his own ends. After he achieves power such quotes seem to vanish, though he made many speeches.
  
- ladsin
  
  +1 y
  No evidence except what he said, his followers said, his followers believed, and the uniform his soldiers wore.
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @ladsin And that is why he made statements like this regarding the Christian churches:
  
  "I'll make these damned parsons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them: if I ever have the slightest suspicion that they are getting dangerous, I will shoot the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews."
  
  Martin Bormann wanted Christianity banned and the churches disbanded. Would Hitler have accepted him as his closest advisor if he held sincere beliefs in the legitimacy of the religion?
  
  As to why he didn't ban it, probably two reasons: One, practical political reasons. And two, his beloved mother had been a devout Catholic, so acting directly against that institution would have in a way been dishonoring his mother's memory.
  
- ladsin
  
  +1 y
  Perhaps I sound like a broken record, but he said what he said. It's hard to tell what people believe unless they are asked.
  
  All that this argument is showing is that he is not internally coherent. At one point it appears as though he is Christian and at another point it appears as though he is not. You can't just pick and choose (although I may be slightly guilty of this I admit).
  Lastly, he said the god of the jews. Obviously he wouldn't worship the god of the jews. They denied Jesus remember?
  
- zagor
  
  +1 y
  @ladsin Yes, I have to agree, it is hard to tell the true thoughts of the long dead. He did grow up with a Catholic mother and so presumably had some attachment to the dogma. On the other hand, his cohorts never seem to have mentioned any particular religious beliefs he seemed to espouse, other than his obviously inflated self-esteem.
  
Entity Follow
Xper 7 Age: 38

+1 y

This is so wrong it's a miracle the universe didn't collapse.

0

0 Reply
Anonymous
(25-29)

+1 y

Something that i find funny is how albert eintstien is quoted. He was a great mind in the field of physics. But somehow that means he's qualified to talk about philosophy.

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1 Reply
- QuestionMan
  
  +1 y
  I just found the quote by accident and thought it was perfect.
  
Anonymous
(25-29)

+1 y

Dean Winchester believes in god.

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4 Reply
- QuestionMan
  
  +1 y
  Actually it is unclear whether he is a deist or atheist.
  There has been no evidence to God's existence in Supernatural.
  
- Mekkalyn
  
  +1 y
  And this matters... why?
  
- Opinion Owner
  
  +1 y
  This conversation doesn't involve you @Mekkalyn @myTakeOwner please inform her this is an A and B conversation.
  
- QuestionMan
  
  +1 y
  @Mekkalyn I honestly don't know. I guess cuz I have Dean Winchester as my profile pic.
  
Anonymous
(25-29)

+1 y

You can be an atheist and have a religion.

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4 Reply
- Kirah
  
  +1 y
  You can't.
  
  Religion is defined as worship or following of some kind of supernatural being, especially a god.
  
  Atheism is defined as lack of worship or following of some kind of supernatural being, especially a God.
  
  They are literally opposites.
  
- Opinion Owner
  
  +1 y
  @Kirah you can be Buddhist and not believe in a god.
  
- QuestionMan
  
  +1 y
  Buddhism, Taoism and other spiritual religions are not a form of atheism. Atheism rejects both the concept of a god and the supernatural.
  
- Opinion Owner
  
  +1 y
  Depends on your interpretation of atheism.
  
  According to the Oxford dictionary its "the Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
  
Anonymous
(30-35)

+1 y

Abrahamic religions are fake and copied.

1

0 Reply

What is atheism? The 3 main types of atheism and their religious equivalents (Page 2)

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